The Most Dangerous Race Car Ever Made
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- čas přidán 21. 05. 2024
- Today I wanted to talk about the most dangerous race car ever made, in my opinion. That would be the Honda RA302, a magnesium Formula 1 car built by Honda for the 1968 season.
In it's first ever race, the 1968 French GP, Jo Schlesser would lose control of the RA302 only two laps into the race. It would flip and land upside down on an embankment. The fuel tank would split open, where fuel would drip onto the exhaust and ignite instantly. Due to the magnesium design of the car, and the flammable nature of the material, the entire car would go up in flames and would burn for over ten minutes. All while the race went on around it.
Racing in the 1960's was a wild time.
Twitter: JommyJonny
Music: Epidemic Sounds - Sport
1980s dangerous? We thought it was super safe at the time!
Ligier names all their cars with JS prefix in honour of Jo Schlesser.
Jackie Stewart raced in the sixties and seventies. He saw many friends killed. He led the charge for safer cars and circuits. And was he criticised by the old school fans and administrators. However as 3 times world champion he had great power to force change. All drivers in motor racing today owe him a great debt of gratitude. Hi efforts have saved dozens of lives. The safety crusade also spread to all forms of motorsports.
and yet in the two 24h races I watched within the last 3 weeks, I saw live comments on the internet complaining about how racing isn't what it used to be when safty cars went out in poor weather conditions and one of the races was aborted due to extreme fog. So many fans are complete Jackasses expecting drivers to risk their lives for entertainment. Another time I saw people on facebook complaining about nowadays soft people safety standards under a picture of a 70s theme park ride with NO safety belts loops or literally anything. Just a seat in the sky and a person holding onto it barehanded. Humanity is doomed.
@@electricpaisy6045 yep as my old mum said..’they jest at scars that never felt a wound’ In 1968 I was at a motor racing event at Warwick Farm Sydney. Over the loud speaker it was announced that the great Jim Clark was killed at a F2 race of all things in Germany when his lotus left the track and hit a tree! What a waste of a brilliant life. Today the car would have just clipped the Armco…yeah the good ol days…idiots
Props to the driver telling his boss he won't drive their death trap.
well he was a double world champion in both motorcycles and F1
John Surtees was a very good racing driver - somewhat unappreciated by modern fans. Unfortunately, Mr Honda did not want to listen to him.
John Surtees said out of all the cars he had driven in his career, that’s the only one that truly terrified him. It was twitchy, unstable, and always felt like it was bound to lose control at any second. He told Honda that car is going to get someone killed, and it wasn’t going to be him.
In fairness Honda is not the only one to build a magnesium chases F1 car
I was at the Rouen for that French Gran Prix, and was sitting on the bank where he crashed, the fire became incredibly intense - the insanity of using magnesium on an F1 car!
as were the mickey thompson indy cars, of masten gregory, dav macdonald, and steady , eddie , which dave crashed hard on lap one in turn 4, and led to a toxic explosion when he was hit by eddie sachs , daves car was the chassis that had caught fire, and the ims had no fire fighting equipment to put out this hich tech metal chassis fire. sadly, or stupidly, usac, were not on top of the safety factors and would not catch up for many more years. ps, why were there no deaths or inbjuries in nasa moon project, with exception of jan, 1967 apollo one fire on launch pad. in all the 1st 15 years , 1958/1973, how can it be that only one fatal accident, fire occurred while 1000s of racers died in racing cars all over the world.....thoughts to ponder, robert in italy.
The use of magnesium in race cars isn’t something Honda pioneered. It had long been used in the fabrication of virtually every part of older race cars. That’s where the term mag wheels comes from.
Mag wheels and magnesium used in aircraft landing gear. Ever see a wheel fire after a blowout on an airplane?
Never understood why Honda did not "get" it about magnesium. Most of the incendiary bombs dropped on Germany and Japan in WW2 had magnesium components for the extreme flammability you discuss in the program. Japan was fire bombed intensely even before the atomic bombings - Honda should have known about the danger of magnesium.
same thing happened to mercedes in 55 in le mans. that crash that made them pull out of racing all together for a looooooong time. also a magnesium body that on top of rolling though 50 meters of spectators caught fire in a very similar fashion
Yeah, don't how anybody in racing missed that takeaway - don't use Magnesium for your car body. Not complicated.
Magnesium was extensivly used in F1 for all manner of components -gearboxs , suspension uprights etc before carbon took over and is still used for the wheels
There’s a big difference between thick section parts (gear boxes, suspension, cam box covers) and thin sheet used in body work. The thick sections can act as a heat sink inhibiting temperature rise. Thin sheet has a high air-mass ratio and can quickly heat up all the way through to the melting/vaporization temperature and combust. Flares & fireworks use a mixture of fine mag powder and an oxidizer (black powder or a metal nitrate (red flares - strontium nitrate)).
Mercedes built bodies of their 1954 and 55 racing cars - 300SLR and 196 f1 from mag. So did Jaguar for their initial batch of D-types.
@@johngeren1053 i think honda were just incredibly unlucky it caught fire - it is VERY dificult to ignite large pieces of magnisum - its used on modern road going motorcyles- for example very thin castings for valve covers. Which i have welded with no problems. - The only reason it isnt used more in high performance road vehicles is its corosion resitance .
The 1966 movie "Grand Prix" has a story line about a driver named Pete Aron, driving a Yamura F1 car. Yamura is obviously Honda. And John Surtees was the driver they based Jean-Pierre Sarti on in the movie.
Worst movie ever.
Aron was Phil Hill, Sarti was Von Tripps.
@@patrickporter6536 lol , obviously you've never seen Driven
@@jamesstewart1794 hopefully I never will! 😂
Honda was far from the only F1 car (or any type of race car) built with Magnesium.
Dan Gurney's car with which he won the 1967 Belgian GP was built of magnesium. The Mercedes W196 and W196 SL famously driven by Fangio, Moss, and Kling were cars built of an aluminium space frame structure with magnesium bodywork.
The Eagle and Mercedes' receive non-stop praise for their success, deservedly so. But only Honda gets the bad press and is called "the most dangerous car ever made" because the RA302 was the only Mg car in F1 that killed its occupant. And that's just in F1. There were a number of other race cars that used Mg extensively, including LeVegh's Mercedes that crashed at LeMans in 1955, a car built similarly to their F1 counterparts racing at the time.
When these cars were built 60's ,70's or 80's they were state of the art for it's time. I have 3 vintage racecars from the 70's and early 80's they had the "Best" in safety for the time.
Never forget that early VW beetles had engines and transmissions made out of Magnesium.
If you read the notes in IMDB, you will find the producers used the Name Pete Aron so that when they filmed Bruce Amon driving the name on the helmet looked like Aron.
@@johnharris6655Chris Amon.
@@marks7197 Right, I was thinking Bruce McLaren.
Most "magnesium" was alloys with aluminium and other metals, much less flammable than straight magnesium.
The main problems of cars of this era were the side fuel tanks which exploded when car hit something sideways. Accidents of Shclesser, Siffert and Courage were pretty much identical. There were nothing to do with air cooling or magnesium.
Bandini too
Dan Gurney's All American Eagle that won the Spa Grand Prix was also made out of magnesium.
Huey helicopters are also made from magnesium.
Excellent video! Well done!
Well, you confusingly show the Walker Lotus 49B which crashed under Jo Sifferts magical hands at the Karussell in 1969. As far as Magnesium is concerned the respective tubechassied 917s never worried any of its pilots in its days. Judging historical things out of context in the light of today is creating no sense. Anyway, thankyou.
Porsche has learned one thing: don't tell your driver what the car is made of
@@hectornecromancer5308 :). Brian Redman tells, when invited to test the then new 917, he called Jo Siffert what he thought. 'Let the germans do the testing, and see what breaks first' Siffert adviced. You had to be pretty shrewd to save your bones, at least for some time. And using the tubes as oilpipe did not comfort any doubts. ;)
This is one of the best and most accurate F1 videos I've seen,
Well you haven't seen many, in that case.
They were racing while car was on fire..
Holy fucking shit, humans from the past were so wild
The drivers of the 50s to mid 90s, especially up to the 80s they were built different
If they complained about the safety they'd be fired and there'd be 100 who were ready to jump in the car the very same day
First gp I ever saw as a kid that happened, 1973 Holland.
@@joakimjeppsson1443if they complained about saftey they were called scared, until Jim Clark died. after he died everyone was scared. they almost knew Jim was a better driver than them and if Jim died they were gonna. You had to win a championship to be taken seriously(Like Stewart and Lauda)
You're definitely Young.....😂😂😂
excellent vid. thanks
The guys/engineers that built the car knew all to well the flamability/volatile issues surrounding magnesium and they failed to notify race safety crews of the necessity to only use foam whaic was available in the late 50's early 60's. In the mid 60's I saw two Ferrari F1 cars catch fire by their magnesium wheels (not coated back then with anything) and the two cars burn completely. The marshals also did not have foam initially and when the fire crew arrived with the spray foam to smother the flames the formula cars were alread all but burnt. The safety corner workers only had dry powder extinguishers which can only out gas an oil fires but not anything that burns as hot as magnesium.
This guy knows some stuff ! And Yes ,60 s were developmental ,and progressive ,more than most.Any human decade ! Space ,Music ,Aircraft, Computers . . . ,, last Phenominal Decade :
Magnesium was used in body panels in the 50s and also in Dan Gurney's Eagle mark I chassis number 104 in 1967.
You are rankin' that tank-top, broheim.
I raced big GT cars in endurance racing in the '60s,70s and 80s. We really didn't think about the danger. In fact, it was part of the Mystique that race car drivers were a "special" breed. We were not.😊 No more so than fighter pilots 😎. So even today, there are people in the crowd who think drivers are endowed with some special form of skills or bravery. Being a cop is way more dangerous than being a race car driver at any level. Always was.
BTW, I raced cars, flew planes and was a cop.
I call BS.
Thank you.Well done.
pff great video man gj 👏
There is a documentary called "Rapid Response" and it is the story of how Dr. Steven Olvey created trackside medicine at Indy from nothing and how Dr. Terry Trammel has worked to make racing safer. Worth a view if you can find it.
Wow…never knew this! Good video
Let’s go Jonny upload!!
Bugatti had a few magnesium bodies in 1934-35, and my old Lawn Boy lawnmower also had a magnesium deck. Nice and light though....
In legend these heroes are living forever.
And here is the news read by a man in a vest and a whisky and coke, very professional.
Subbed - This is what I like, F1 without bullshit, drama or toxicity. Just pure facts!
Another French formula 2 driver named Eric Offenstadt was destined to race the Honda RA302. But journalist Gerard Combac recommended his friend Jo Schlesser instead and Honda agreed.
Jo was lying next to the car - you can see the firemen trying to pull him away but his legs were trapped. Apart from the engine, there was virtually nothing left of the Honda.
Honda's mistake was entering as a car manufacturer and not as an engine supplier as some companies at the time did (e.g. Repco. Climax). Imagine for a second if Honda had approached Colin Chapman to supply the RA273E V12 in 1966 - that combination would likely have won a few races and maybe even the Championship with Jim Clark driving. The RA273E was a decent V12 at the time and a far better engine than the BRM H16 or Climax 2 litre V8 Lotus had to endure in 1966 while the Ford DFV was being developed. Ford also sold the DFV to other teams from 1968, so a supply with Honda would likely have worked out well. Lotus also had some good drivers on the roster at that time aside from Clark - Piers Courage, Pedro Rodriguez, Peter Arundell and Gerhard Mitter were all employed by Lotus at various races that season. Arundell in particular may have had a very different career with a Honda-powered car rather than the H16 and Climax V8 he was stuck with - he came back from a bad crash with Richie Ginther in 1964 to getting a podium in South Africa in 1966 on his return!
Did you delete any of your video on red bull dominance with there aero package?
T 0:16 he Royal Navy found out about lightweight mg during the Falklands war
1 or 2 ships were stuck with Exocet missiles and burned like roman candles. It is a wonder there is not an alloy of Mg and Titanium/Al which would not have the horrendous fire potential.
Magnesium is still used in smaller parts? Do tracks have some chemical to suppress burning magnesium, today?
Thank you for the video. Educational on some things I didn't know.
Sir John Surtees declining was central information. Drivers are kinda independent contractors. If it looks sketchy, just say NO. Live to race another day.
The RA 302's instability had nothing to do with its magnesium.. Honda had little experience with racing cars and monocoque construction Their 1964-5 car was mixed rubular/sheet metal and for the 3 liter formula Honda relied on the experience of Eric Broadly and Surtees to design the "Hondola".
The 302 may have been able to be competitive if it had had time to develop.
Jo never raced F1 car before, so he crashed in the rain, hitting the earth bank sideways with high speed. He was killes instantly.
do a video on The Isle of Man GP!! it seems super interesting
Well presented, well researched, super professional. Great job great video.
The engine top left at 3:42 is the 1.5 litre transverse V12, not the 3 litre longitudinally mounted V12 you speak of.
RA302 was a V8.
Magnesium was already prooven to be a bad choice in Le Mans 1955. How did they ignore that?
makes you wonder why they didn't put the V8 in the RA301 and just kept it going
Can you imagine if honda came out with a s1500t in 2024 mmmmm would sell like crazy with vtec
Hell, I watched a video of a cat cut in half after a crash.......the race went on
You think a magnesium sports car fire is bad. Hope you never experience trying to put out a electric car fire. It’s horrific. The fumes can kill you while just standing there. The heat is insane, and people are almost always stuck inside the car, and can’t get out.
thank u johnnyF1
this honda car from the similar materials ,
as were the mickey thompson indy cars, of masten gregory, dav macdonald, and steady , eddie , which dave crashed hard on lap one in turn 4, and led to a toxic explosion when he was hit by eddie sachs , daves car was the chassis that had caught fire, and the ims had no fire fighting equipment to put out this hich tech metal chassis fire. sadly, or stupidly, usac, were not on top of the safety factors and would not catch up for many more years. ps, why were there no deaths or inbjuries in nasa moon project, with exception of jan, 1967 apollo one fire on launch pad. in all the 1st 15 years , 1958/1973, how can it be that only one fatal accident, fire occurred while 1000s of racers died in racing cars all over the world.....thoughts to ponder, robert in italy.
8:06 back in the day they never stopped a race , the most one would see is a local yellow flag , not like nowadays, they put a 2 hour red flag for the smallest fender bender
Are you aware of the fact that this Honda car, was made 4 years after the magnesium MT indy car which dave macdonald crashed on lap one of 1964 indy 500 30, may 1964, please check it out, cheers robert in italy, ps, good work onthis vivdeo.
Why was the car so unstable or unresponsive. What was it doing that was not normal?
I believe that the Mercedes that crashed at Le Mans in 1955 was also magnesium.
Enzo Ferrari had a “You win in my Ferrari, or die trying to win”.
Aluminium is 2.7g/cc. Don't know where you got 3.62 from but that ain't it Chief.
And yet,BMW boxer engine cylinder covers are made of magnesium!To ,,gain,,a few grams on an overweight so called enduro bike!😅
Ya know, I get wanting to make your mark and not miss an opportunity, but when the main guy says “nope. No way. Not doing it. Too unsafe” there’s no way I’d be getting in that car. RIP
Most of the video clips were irrelevant.
Crp music gave me a headache.
Crashed a 1974 honda Elsinore CR125
(motorcycle) that had many magnesium parts. Burned for an hour and burned a giant pothole in the road.
Almost nothing left....frame, spokes, engine internals....
Burned so bright you could hardly look at it.
Comment brought up memories of my 79 Elsinore
Aluminium weighs 2,72 kg per liter...
Aluminium is only 2.7 kg/litre….
Aluminium is 2,7 not 3,6
Not the first magnesium car, the 1955 LeMans disaster was a Mercedes utilizing magnesium.
First series D-Types, too.
It's aluminium, not aluminum.
Gnarly ???????????????????????
very good witthout bullshit
Will you drink this Marti i?
Titanium is heavier than aluminum. Lots of factual errors in this. Magnesium wheels were very common in that era.
You've identified one factual error, not 'lots'. Please state ALL the others you've spotted... 🤡🤡
@@Eat-MyGoal If you cannot spot them that isn't my problem. The lack of knowledge about weight of aluminum versus titanium is a major problem and undermines the credibility of the entire video.
Not a complete disregard. And now? Now they have the idiotic roll hoop over the cockpit. Men do not even shift the car any longer! You may as well have self driving cars at this point. Danger was part of the equation. Now, all been tamped down as to be benign.
Yet another poorly informed and researched yank video on F1. What a surprise.
Point out the errors. I'll not wait...
We don't take lessons on speed from Yanks.
Do you sit with booze in your hand , if so , its stupid !
I'm really pleased that you added the words "in my opinion" as you are way too young have lived in or experienced the era at first hand. What you are expounding is what you have read. And sitting there narrating with a scotch in your hand does NOT add anything to your credibility.
Please pronounce aluminium and chassis correctly, not the bastardised American versions! Video was educational but I turned off immediately I heard mis-pronounciations!!!!!!
How long without cuts did you hold that tumbler glass lol