YOU'RE NOT USING ENOUGH SURFACE!
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- čas přidán 28. 08. 2024
- Everyone talks about the importance of surface, but how many of you are using the right amount of surface? Most people may hit their ball with a 5 year old 2000 grit pad that has been sitting in their bag and call it a day. I'm here to tell you that you're probably not using enough surface!
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With the help of SPECTO data, it'll help tell the story about reaction shape, overall hook and continuation through the pins. Here are the SPECTO data points used and definition of each term:
Launch Speed - Speed measured off the hand.
Entry Speed - Speed measured at the pins. (What you'd see on your home center MPH screens)
Rev Rate - Revolutions Per Minute (RPM)
Launch Angle - The angle the ball traveled the first 10 feet.
Break Point Position - Board at which the ball was at its outermost position.
Total Hook - Total number of boards the ball crosses on the way to the pins.
Hook Power - Number of boards the ball hooked based from the True Breakpoint.
Entry Angle - The angle of the ball between 51 and 55 feet.
Impact Angle - The angle of the ball between 57 and 59.5 feet.
Pin Deck Exit - Ball position at the end of the pin deck.
Questions? Comments? Did you order one after seeing this video? Let me know! I read all the comments and respond to many!
#Bowling #BowlingTips #BrunsNick
This is why your channel rocks.
Best bowling channel on youtube
Thank you!
Sanded my BW 3.0 and scored my highest game ever. It truly works!
I don't play with my surface nearly enough. I do re-surface my bowling balls occasionally, back to box finish, but I really need to better learn how to adjust the surface during play. Perhaps I need to spend a couple of practice sessions playing around with surface so I can get a feel how to dial in my ball reaction. This is a GREAT video! .. Thanks Nick !!!
Couldn’t hurt to see!
I just started getting coaching. The very first lesson I had my coach took my ball and added surface.
😊😮WOW THIS WAS GREAT 👍 AWESOME VIDEO YOUR THE MAN TY SO MUCH FOR HELPING US WITH THIS
Glad to help!
Immediate send to my league teammates who are afraid to come near a ball with a pad
Great job Nick!!
Fantastic video.. learnt a lot . Thank you.
I’m bowling a sport singles league. Had results plus with 1000 160 180. Switched a black widow domination at 500 went 237 246. Surface is important.
Hey Nick,
I just wanted to say thank you for your video. It couldn’t have come at a better time for me. I bought a new pearl ball last night, and I couldn’t get it to do anything. I was really frustrated. I used it in league a little and then threw 3 of my worst games ever after practicing. I talked to my pro shop guy, and he suggested hitting it with a 4000 pad to start. It started to get better. I then hit it with a 3000 pad, and game changer. I threw a couple 200 games, and it was strong and controllable and went through the pins hard. I watched your video this morning and it was really helpful. Thanks again.
@@butchcoolidge3261 great to hear! Don’t be afraid to freshen it up often!
Thanks for this! I add surface a lot as I like to play straight and keep it in front of me. My game is weak when hooking it. So I do my best to keep all my equipment fresh before league night.
14:00 Best part of any BrunsNick video. 😂🤣
I was so in the moment too, still rears its ugly head 😂
That's some great information nick , thank you bro for your video...
Of course you have to do this before or during warmups in competition.
Correct.
Greetings from Thailand. Speed dominant and been using lots of surface here too. Quick solution to f...ed up oil machines at my center and sport patterns at tournaments.
Thanks Nick . I've been thinking a lot about this topic with my Hazmat . . I think I will drop it to 1500 just to see what happens
You made this video at the exact perfect time for me! I'm a beginner with a Hustle that has a lot of lane shine on it now after 40-50 games, going to hit it with pads tomorrow!
Good video.Learned something from it.
Wow this video is perfect. This was my exact problem lol
Thank you, lots of good information. I'm always afraid of using surface, thanks
Just now getting back into leagues. Glad to get more information on these things as before I only really knew about how to throw a ball/moving boards to help.
Very good video. Interesting
Thanks Larry! Hope it helps!
So once you've changed surface and have the ball dialed in, how long will that new surface last? How many games?
Depends how dull and what kind of ball, but in this scenario, it’ll be good for a few games at least. I don’t need it to last all tournament usually, just enough to get me through the first game or two until I can move in and play with the friction I helped create.
Thank you for the breakdown! This is super informative and you broke it down perfectly!
Hands down your best video of 2024!!
After the 2nd game out the box, i hit my Arctic Vibe with 2000 grit, didn't notice much... until I stopped after game 4, thanked my PSO and went home, woke up the next day, and went bowling at my home center, 1st game on their house shot? 299. Guess my inner sanding demon knew something to hit that thing with 2000 after just 2 games with it.
I'll add another quick sanding story real quick, my very first tournament that we planned for, my coach and I agreed to hit my reality with 500... and I still had to play dead up 8 throwing it 60%, college shots are NO JOKE.
What a great clinic
12:19 that last shot from 15 to 4 was great. I always carry my pads as Nick said.
Nick, or should I say King of the 8 Pin, great video about surface. I know I don't use it nearly enough although I'm getting better. This video just encourages me keep adjusting it to help shape a shot I'm comfortable playing.
I have the Brutal Collision with the box surface. It either sails or is the sharpest thing I've ever thrown, so I'll probably gonna hit it with 2000 here pretty soon.
Yeah i hit my proton with surface the other night,burnt up instantly and i didn't know until i pulled out a shiny,it barely hooked
Pearls I knock the shine off of, nice 3k then 4k pad.
Solids I usually set to 3k, and one at 2k just in case unless I know what I'm bowling on
Cannot wait for a Vaporize video, man! Maybe you can compare it with the Theorem, Beyond, or Effect?? Super excited to see that one!
I usually keep most of my solids at 1500. Pearls I knock the shine off with 2000.
Thank you very much for the info! How many times can a surfacing pad be used? I am new and don't know but I will be using this forever more!
With SiaAir, pads will last anywhere between 10-30 uses before degrading
Thanks all of your tips and reviews has helped me to improve my game!!!!
You’re welcome 👍🏻
"No, no, maybe BrunsNick's right, maybe I'm NOT using enough surface" 🤔🤔
- Me with my 1000 grit Purple Hammer
MORRRREEEEEE 😎😂
"Those are rookie numbers..."-Matthew McConaughey
Honestly might be taking mine to 500 for nationals tomorrow
He is right it should be 500
I use 500 on my Incognito😂
Something I've been experimenting with lately is how I layer my surface. Going down to 3k is very different from going up to 3k.
Yes, much difference, usually needs a spinner to do properly. Too much elbow grease needed
I’ve recently begun to experiment with surface and it’s definitely a game changer. I took my purple hammer down to 500 and I definitely had to bring it back up ASAP. I am more rev than speed, and my purple hammer took off. I also brought my Hazmat Hybrid down to a 1000 and I actually somewhat like how it turned out. I am still playing with it, but that is an area where I can see myself leaving my Hazmat Hybrid at. I am curious about my other two balls, which are the Nu blue and the Black widow 2.0. So if anyone in the comments have experience with changing the surface on those two balls, please feel free to let me know. Another great video like always Nick 👊👊👊
Thanks Willie! Keep experimenting!
For me, Black Widow 2.0 is best at 2000 grit
@@andrewweltlich9065 I was actually thinking about that! I am going to try it, appreciate it
BW 2.0 ...... 1800 grit ........followed by CTD P5000D .........
And, there's the issue. If you use too much surface on the ball, you're screwed. You can't fix it mid-game.
I always try out of box first then adjust the surface to my preference.
@@JamesCFelty3 perfect 👍🏻
@@brunsnick works like a charm.
Here’s a big debate I have with a lot of other bowlers.. I always dry sand my ball, no matter the surface I put I always do it dry.. a lot of other people will use ball cleaner on the pad and then surface.. do you think this really makes a difference wet or dry?? I feel dry gives it a true surface and gives it more teeth
If on a spinner, use water. If by hand, dry.
Adding water on the pad and doing it by hand increases the grit. i.e. 2k pad will turn into a 3k pad.
I am total opposite...my problem is always too strong. I am REV dominant and have issues getting enough down lane carry through the breakpoint. Always wind up playing 40 board or even throwing over the left gutter.
I bought the harsh reality like 5 weeks ago and it came out of the box with a 2000 surface on it and i only bowl league 1 night a week but the day before i hit it with a 2000 abralon pad the night before and ive avgd around roughly 650 since from around 195 avg. I know u only do brunswick but besides all that having that 2000 abralon surface has changed my game quite a bit. ( knock on wood). Hopefully i can keep that up remainder of the season.
I carry 500, 1000, 2000. I have to carry around 3 to 5 500 grit pads cuz of all the sport and challenge shots multiple times a week. Tomato ball and black hammer shine up quick xwx
A 2000 and 3000 pad are my best friends most of the time. When bowling on lots of volume, my 1000 pad gets used, and I always hammer my urethane with 500 before each use
What a game-changer...
Nick, you talked about using surface for speed dominant players like yourself (have no trouble creating speed, but sometimes struggle to generate hook). What about the opposite - rev dominant players (like 2H) who generally throw shinier stuff but sometimes run into over/under conditions. Can the same solution apply - add surface to make the ball read earlier and smooth out the back end?
Yes absolutely. Surface will bring the reaction closer to you bleeding more energy allowing the ball to roll off the end of the pattern. More control 👍🏻
I've never used abralon pads before. I get nervous about not doing right and not getting all the surface properly.
Good video Nick however, typically you have about 10 minutes of practice for a tournament, doesn't seem like much time to get a read, make all these adjustments, and hope you get it right. I understand the need for surface and I use it, just seems like a lot in the short time you have in a tournament situation.
You have a great channel.
True, part of it is being prepared ahead of time going in with some knowledge of what you’re bowling on and how you plan to attack the lanes. Then, let your experience decide what you need to do in that short amount of time. If this, then that sort of scenario.
@@brunsnick hey Nick, thanks for taking the time to reply. I appreciate it.
Keep rollin
I keep all of my solids at 1,000 and urethanes 360 or lower.
I bowl league at a bowlero so if i use it have have to clean it and then a ride on the ball spinner to truly clean it.
Im like you and have a ball speed from 16-18 normally.
Great video!
Adding surface to your ball can be like a double-edged sword.
This video leaves out a couple of key situations.
1. in most Leagues you only have 10 minutes of warm-ups typically with more than one player on the lane.
2. This means what he's demonstrating is completely unrealistic.
Because when other players start throwing the ball it creates a little track area on the lane.
3. the biggest problem with changing surface on your bowling ball once you start competition you cannot alter the ball.
If you're bowling in sanction competition*
This means in games 2 and 3 when the front part of lanes go away
That ball you surfaced is only good for one game.
What will eventually happen is your ball will start to use a too much of its energy in the front part of Lane and deflect because there's not enough oil on the lane.
I know this is a long comment but I usually leave my bowling balls out of box finish 😊
@@elr2141979 assuming you only have 1 ball, but almost all advanced players have an arsenal they use. In a league situation, it’s completely realistic to touch up a ball in practice to match the conditions you’re seeing that day. Even if you only use the duller ball for a game, it’s better to match up right out of the gate of grinding out shots until it comes to you.
@@brunsnick keep in mind that most League bowlers have a arsenal of bowling balls.
Could you please do a sequel vid about pre-surfacing, or changing surface before bowling for score starts? As we all know, we can't change surface once competition starts. so how do we figure out what surface we need?
Sure, I can do a follow up but a lot of what I will talk about is knowing what you’re about to bowl on, and how you plan to attack the pattern with what you brought. It’ll come down to experience and trusting what your eyes are seeing.
@@brunsnick Thank you. You could combine this topic with the broader topic of deciding which balls to bring to an event, when logistics won't allow you to run out to get another ball from your trunk. And then, if you guessed incorrectly, or somewhat incorrectly, how can you use surface to make what you brought usable?
That would be helpful to me...
When will get any video of the mesmerize even a sneak peak on the lane? Please and thank you
After 7/30 👍🏻
@@brunsnick thank you for the reply. Can't wait to see it....also but it's so far away lol
Great learning video. So how long does the change in surface last? 3 games? 9 games? and to reverse the process? I assume polishing or take it to your pro shop?
Depends how dull you go really but yes, should get you through the games you need. And yes, to go back up to polish or compound correctly will require a spinner. Hard to do by hand.
Great video as usual Nick, thanks. Going on the opposite direction. If I am constantly overhooking and going brooklyn on a 2k grit surface: Should i resurface up to 3k or 4k to allow the ball to travel a bit more?
Found myself opening the angle way too much standing on 42 and crossing the entire lane to get the ball to slow down and get into the pocket.
Thanks!
Yes, or even go shiny.
Next time: 10 minutes in the Lustre- King! Will it clog the pores or still absorb oil? (if there's even one that works somewhere in there haha)
Thanks for all the vids and info. Love the content. Quick question: my layout is 55x4.5x30 and I want more length, would you increase the drill angle or pin-pap?
You could just pick a ball with lower flare potential and cleaner cover if that layout works best for you.
thank you for that advice. An alternative I did not consider . Thanks and keep making great content!
Can you do a review with these new strong sum solids. GB5 vs Hazmat Solid vs Idol
I have done Hazmat and GB5. They’re on my channel. 👍🏻
I really want to try that ? On my black widow but ? I got feeling I might screw up my ball.
Won’t screw anything up. And if you don’t like it, it can be put back to box surface pretty easily.
I carry my trucut pads from 80 to p5000d and the purple wow factor and the polish kit for by hand the ball will be at 6000 grit
@@traviskirk3834 80!!!
Hey, Brunsnick! I have an off subject question, but going back to to your review of the Dark Web and building a Hammer arsenal...would you still recommend getting the Dark Web or just go with a newer and better ball instead? Thanks
If they’re still available sure! Great ball to control patterns on fresh.
But it normally smooths out the backend motion correct? Burns up more causing less snap
@@levihayes5365 not everyone will see the same motion because of differences in the way we throw it but the ball needs to slow down in order to strike. Sanding a ball will bring the reaction closer to you, and will smooth it out, but the ball still needs to read the lane pattern.
Our house went short oil this Summer, sooo 2000+, even 3000-5000 may be the deal.
I'm bowling 42' Kegel Autobahn tomorrow. Advice I've found for this pattern is to avoid surface because it will make the shot more difficult. Nick, if the word is not to go nuts on surface, but for sport control is your friend, any wisdom?
Advice is one thing, first hand experience is another. Let your ball reaction be your guide on this one.
@@brunsnick Sounds good! I've got 3 weeks on this pattern. I'm going to try the avoid too much surface tomorrow...Perhaps pick a ball for the following week to bring the surface down for fresh just to compare
I've noticed when using something that has polish on it after a few games seems to get lane shine is it true or is it just me I end up hitting my stuff with 5000 grit or even 4000 grit
It’s usually the slightly duller ones that get lane shined, not the polished ones.
If a lane is burnt, can you adjust surface to get ball through the heads easier?
Not as easily, no. You’ll need to a spinner to polish or bring to a smoother finish. This is why your dry lane ball shouldn’t be dull to begin with.
What would you do with surface if the lane is already hooking a lot
@@anthonyglammeyer3606 use less or just use shinier equipment. Always let the ball reaction be your guide.
Question: When are they going to release stealth hybrid footage
@@jazzscott4604 later this month
What I'm wondering is, what happened to the market for dull balls? I feel like every ball I see getting reviewed now is a pearl. Where did the interest go for just buying a strong, dull finish ball? Is EVERYONE a rev-dominant two-hander now?
Because of how expensive pads can get I use scotch pads I get from work 😂 240, 360, 400, 600, 1000, 1500, 2000, 3000. I know Mo was a big proponent of abrasive pads over sanding pads. I only used sanding pads when I do a resurface on the Haus machine. 🤙🏾
I used scotch brite in the resurfacer for that same reason. But this was before sanding pads really took off.
Surface pads are your friend. Say it with me!😂
What do you recommend for high friction SPL? Need the surface to get the ball to hook but it burns up and flat 10s all day. Seems like it’s always burning up or too clean.
Maybe a lower flaring ball with surface might be the answer.
@@brunsnick will try that. Thanks for the tip
Does sand paper work the same for my bowling ball?
Yes
can you do this to solid balls too? or just pearls.
@@BewseyyPvPLivinLife you can do it to any ball. (This is a solid btw)
@@brunsnick its a solid but shiny?
@@BewseyyPvPLivinLife correct.
I've been trying surfacing for the first time lately. It's been trial and error, with mostly error 😂. I think I'll get it figured out. Anyone have tips for a good grit on the Perfect Mindset or Theorem? I have CTD pads and conditioner.
@@GrumpaBaggins start high and work your way down is usually the way to go.
@@brunsnick thanks Nick. I'll give it a go. Always love the videos!
@brunsnick I dropped the Perfect Mindset to 2000 and slowed my speed. It's starting to finally hook some. I might try 1500, but I thought I'd see how it works for 10 games or so first.
Maybe a dumb question but what if I need the shine back after I surface it?
Polish
@@Filard25 if you want to bring it back to factory finish, in this case, you’d want to repeat the steps from the beginning. 500, 1000, 1500 Siaair / Factory Compound. Best done on a spinner or resurfacing machine.
@@brunsnick ahh. Okay. Thanks so much for the reply.
@@ericle6984 thank you!! 🙏
If the factory finish is 500/1000/1500 how do adding 2000 make it earlier? Thanks!
It doesn’t. This scenario is with a ball that comes out of the box shiny with compound.
Sanded my 20 year old storm xfactor duece with 400 grit sand paper. that shit hooks great now.
I promise there is voodoo magic in the 3000 grit pad. 13 years as an NCAA coach and we swore by it for the right balance of bite, shape and going through the pins.
The lower surfaces were definitely good on 44' or longer because the oil blended the shape. But 3000 was the chef's kiss more times than not on anything less than 44' or a house shot.
I've heard more surface on short with volume. I definitely hear what you're saying for medium... mind you I'm not sure... I'm just getting back into sport shots
@@michaeljamrozy4299 500 to 1000 can definitely give you roll/stop on the short.
For short patterns we usually used polished high RG pieces and played 8-10 at arrows to 4-5 breakpoint.
38 to 43 feet is where the 3000 & 4000 shined.
@@yournightmareracing1754 Do you know 42' Autobahn? Any advice?
@@yournightmareracing1754 Autobahn 2542 I guess
@@michaeljamrozy4299 There's a lot of oil to 29 feet across the lane with buff for the remainder.
I would try to keep it in front of you being firm with a Hybrid or an NU piece if you have high revs.
As it transitions it might require a bigger jump than normal. Definitely use a fill ball to check inside reaction.
What grits do you recommend for Rev dominate players?
I’m 16 mph at the pins and 450 revs. I keep my solids at 1500 and pearls at 2000 on a house shot. But I also play deeper in the lane and can manipulate hand position
Depends on oil patterns really. There’s no one size fits all.
Do you recommend a certain brand of pads?
Siaair
@@brunsnick thanks for the info! Love watching your videos, keep up the awesome work!!
How do you decide this quick enough in warmups? lol
Having an idea of what you’re bowling on helps a great deal and having experience to trust your eyes to make quick decisions.
This ball migh5 be use for two finger
14:00 Phoenix White Approves This Message
I like your videos but why is your middle finger and your ring finger on your ball different angles
Sarge Easter Grip - welcome to the channel, be sure to subscribe!
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I keep my one remix at 1000 and throw it on everything
After I apply surface to my balls, Ive noticed the first shot always bites early. Every shot afterwards they seem to do what I was going for. I wouldnt judge the difference from surface by the results of the first shot afterwards. Roll ya one or two shots after applying surface then make the call 👌
Hi
I'm sand my outer limits pearl to 2k and dry it
Cool video talk tech bowling ball brunsnick
You didn’t hit the entire ball with surface you forgot to hit the area of the holes.
Darn
You struggle because you don’t come out of the thumb clean.
Just need to sand the track area , not the entire ball. Use 600 grit. That release is horrible. Coming out of the ball on the side instead of behind it. Eww. Good for chopping a rack.
1, that’s illegal. 2, thanks Coach. I’ll still mop the floor with you.
I would have to disagree with something you said, you said "surface changes the entire motion of the ball." Surface does not change the motion of the ball, the core and layout are in charge of that, surface (to be clear, lower grits) allows the ball to get friction on the lane earlier, but the how the ball moves through the lane and the properties of the ball's core and how it dominates the reaction remain constant. That unique core/layout motion will just happen sooner rather than later.
Now, as a 1960's style Full Roller Senior bowling on House shots, surface as you call it, meaning lower grits, is my enemy.
That will guarantee the ball will die early and have no energy at the pins. Especially since I play the lanes the old way, down and in from the outside.
On sport shots however, lower grits are essential to get the ball reading the lane early enough for good ball motion and margin of error.
At Nationals this year in D/S I used a Carbide Tank at 500 grit playing directly up 4 board for all six games and never had to move a millimeter.
If that ball was high gloss polished, could you have played 4 board the same?
A sanded white dot vs. A shiny white dot would be very different on the lane. While the core in performance balls does have an effect on ball motion, the surface of the ball will still dictate the majority of the ball path. The core can’t do much of anything if there is no friction.
@@brunsnick I understand that, but the layout and core combo dictate 'how' the ball moves, it's shape, once it sees friction, not the grit of the cover. Grit just serves to increase or reduce friction with the lane allowing the ball to slow down sooner or later, but once it does slow down and start to react to the lane then the core and layout take over. So grit will never change the "entire motion of the ball."
@@nordattack without friction, the core can't do anything except flare.
www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/slglt9i02bagvy3l63s4a/1000vsBox.jpg?rlkey=kpygurobu97i3gsi2vhtgq3kz&st=8ag8b0fx&dl=0
Box Surface Strike vs. 1000 - It's over an arrow different in hook, and entry angle from 2.99 to 3.9 and 4.81 even being thrown 1.5mph faster.
@@brunsnick We are talking about two different things. You are talking about putting enough grit on a ball so it slows down properly, I am talking about how the ball shapes through the lane once it does slow down which is a product of the core and layout. If all you had to do was use the proper grit then we would not need layouts or cores at all in a ball to shape it, grit could do it all.
I keep a picture of you in my wallet
Why do you use that goofy finger layout?
Feels good.
1000 is not nearly "extreme". 👎
How is 1000 surface not extreme?
@@educatedduck6618 Because I (and many others) always have a 500 pad with me and I use it often. Anything below 500 is extreme in my book.
Many balls come from the factory at 1000 or 1500. That's in no way "extreme".
For the given pattern 22ml it’s extreme. It’s all about the environment and bowler.
I refuse to ruin my bowling balls.
Explain how it does?
@@brunsnick It doesn't for you. I'm speed / rev matched so I can make the ball do what I want by using a lot of other techniques. I can adjust speed, hand position, etc. and make the ball do what I want most of the time. If I scuff a ball, I have to increase my normal delivery speed to get it to the break point.
@@lockedonlaw Then you aren't surfacing it properly or at the right time lol. You can adjust your speed and hand position all you want, it's never going to give you the result of surfacing your ball. So you either are doing it incorrectly or you don't bowl on patterns that require it.
@educatedduck6618 I agree with you. I'm a matched player. But I also bowl in challenge and sport shot tournaments. Surfacing is a game changer.
@@educatedduck6618 Like Nick said, he's mostly talking to speed dominant players. I'm not one. I learned to bowl when you used one ball for strikes and spares. My point was I don't want the reaction surfacing the ball gives me. That's not to say no one wants it. I bowl on the same PBA patterns everyone else does. I can also play outside-in, something very few players today seem to be able to do.
My question is how often should you surface the ball like once in a while or every week before leagues I recently had a ball baked and then they surfaced it for me it completely changed it brought back old memories hahaha but should I plan on doing it again soon ? It’s been a month or so lmk thanks ! Also your feet are always sideways but are your shoulder square to the pins jw ? Lol
Depends on the ball really, duller balls require a little more upkeep. If you like the box surface dull, then quick touch ups often won’t hurt anything. Getting the oil out every 60 games is a good idea.
Thanks Nick for the response and the videos this is something I’m actually dealing with at the moment !