ECHO Files: Barrel lengths for the Modern Shooter 12.5 Rosco/ 13.9 Ape Defense
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- čas přidán 13. 12. 2022
- In this Episode of the Hatchet Cast Echo Files, Eric reviews the Ape Defense 13.9 Barrel and the 12.5 K9 Sage Dynamics Barrel from Rosco Manufactering.
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I really like the informative "Iron sharpens iron" mindset. This should be the new standard
Amen Zach, we believe positive reinforcement is key
Rosco's 13.7 inch Purebred barrel is a very tight shooting barrel. With the right ammo I've seen it consistently cloverleaf sub-moa 5 shot groups at 100 yards. Great barrels at a great price as far as I'm concerned.
I’m so glad someone did a video on these barrels, so little has been shown on such unique barrels.
That “patrol” length could become an industry standard
Great point on the spare parts. investing in Spare Plates, Barrels, Firing pins, bolts and ammo is a solid move
Your a smart fella
Glad to see content from you guys again.
Merry Christmas to y'all
Merry Christmas to you and your family and we are glad to be back
Thanks to Eric and Roy for testing things and giving us great information.
In addition to that… The Barrel and Hatchet Scoped Carbine class was awesome!
Thanks Josh!
I’m glad you guys are back making these videos
Damn, I have been waiting for you guys to come back!
We are glad to be back!
Very understandable on barrel length, I went with the 18” personally added a 1-6 and recently a canted 45 red dot ( specifically for low light where lpvo not collect enough light). Reason I Choose the 18” on GPR over a 16” others was due to more effective energy available plus was a bday gift from a close friend and the barrel is green mountain barrels and I’ve had 1” or less groups with m193 at 100 yrds and now reaching 4000rds over 6 years for that rifle still maintaining 1” groups
For our SPR’s we run a 18 and that barrel length is fantastic, for our GPR we run 13.9 or 14.5, running suppressors all the time is also a big part of our barrel length choices. But 1inch group from your barrel is the accuracy you definitely should expect from your barrel, very nice
Been loving my 13.7, definitely my new go to rig, didn't put in anything crazy, but I plan on adding more stuff.
Amen to that! Great length as well
Been rockin mine almost 3 years 99 percent suppressed. It's a hell of a rig, and a great do rifle for sure. It's been my go to for all kinds of shit including deer hunting. Wanted to see how capable it really was and its proven and put that much more confidence in me with it. Every deer shot was a one shot stop.
Looking forward to this gents
Great video man!!
Thank you for the support
Good stuff, I'm still rockin the sons of liberty 13.7 suppressed with a dead air sand man s. Been runnin it almost 3 years now, cant seem to shake it lol it's been a hell of a rig.
Owner of Ape Defense is a solid dude
He certainly is!
@@barrelandhatchet he talked with me for like 20 min about his uppers and he was very proud of his products. I was able to convince a buddy of mine at my dept to run one of his 13.9s at work and he loves it. I would run one of his but I have a Steyr Aug patrol rifle so I’m not giving that up
Both of my AR 15 have short barriers my 5.56 is 10/5 and the 300blk is 8/5 . They are made for close contact
I built a lightweight upper I’m thinking that it’s a Ballistic Advantage 13.9” Hanson profile because we pinned a SOLGW NOX 3 prong muzzle device to make length. Since I live all the way on the other side of the country in the middle of the Pacific I chose keymo mounting system for a future suppressor. My barrel is attached to an Aero upper and I put it on my PSA lower with an Elfmann trigger (also mount a BCM 300BO to PSA).
If SHTF/WROL etc I’d mount my lightweight upper to my LWRCi lower.
I got the plates and carriers first from RTS, steel level IV first and then a whole set up with gloves, joint pads, carrier and level IV ceramic plates. Have a belt but need to set it up, it’s more of a competition style than war belt.
I’m also considering a compact upper if TEOTWAWKI ever happens.
I'm digging my 12.5 iwi zion 15. It is mid length gas and 1:8 twist.
Nice nice!
Barrel Lengths for the Urban Shooter.
Fixed it for ya.
Boom thanks we will use that one
BC is so low on 5.56 projectiles that it really doesn’t matter that much. People have been pole-vaulting over mouse turds with 11.5” vs 14.5” vs 16” vs 20”, and it just isn’t anywhere near as big of an advantage as they think going to a longer barrel. 5.56 runs out of gas really fast once you get past 200yds. We’re talking anemic energy on-target no matter how you slice it even at closer ranges. It does great in the close fight, which is what it was designed for.
The higher mv requirement in the late 1950s was driven by a continually-moving set of goal posts set by senior engineers in Army Ordnance Board who were trying to kill the .224” SCHV concept, so every time it met the steel helmet perforation requirements, they just kept adding another 100yds until it finally failed to fully perforate at 500yds. That’s when .222 Remington was being used. Stoner asked Remington to blow the shoulder forward, add a boat tail to the 68gr Flat Based bullet, and see if they could crank it up to 3400fps from a 22” barrel. The bullet ended up weighing 55gr due to constraints on the ogive length relative to the increased length case, where they would have actually done better to cut the neck length of .222 Rem, put a 30˚ shoulder on it, and spit a really long 68gr-75gr Boat Tail with .450 G1 BC, vs a fast little 55gr with .243 G1.
An 11.5” barrel shooting 5.56 is actually quite fast, much faster than most people ever thought.
@@LRRPFco52 5.56 at 500 yards still splits the human skull like a watermelon between a anvil and sledge hammer every day.
My AR is set at a 36 yard zero, everything is point of aim point of impact 36-300 yards. Very slight deviation, but all in the chest, this is on a 16" barrel, is not anywhere near the same on my 11.5, and the FPS is dramatically different in that 5.5 inches of barrel length. All my barrels are 1:8 so I am getting 3/4 of another full turn on that round giving it better downrange velocity in turn better trim characteristics and stability so better trajectory.
In running 5 different AR uppers from 10.5" through 20" there is a notable difference in holds and FPS, remember velocity defeats armor, in turn velocity is the key, and going from 20" to 10.5" yes sir your smashing its nuts.
I cleared buildings with an M16/203 20" barrel and to this day, the only, ONLY benefit i can find of anything less than 14.5 is weight, performance i won't touch less than 16".
Can it be done with shorter barrels, well, Roy and Eric do it all the time as do many many others.
I'm no faster getting through a doorway with a 12.5" barrel than a 20", if you're struggling there thats a training issue, it blows my mind that guys chop off 4-5" of barrel length "for CQB" then throw a 5-6" can on it!
This ain't Hollywood, once you start popping off rounds they know your there, can or not, very few of us are LE even less operators, spend less time trying to look like seal team six with your gear, buy a M&P15 and dump the rest of the money you'd blow on a $2000 AR into training, you'll smoke the shit out of the guy rollin around the range with his Noveske and EOTECH with his peq15 and all the cool guy gear.
If you suck, you suck, do something about sucking, gear doesn't make the shooter.
I've got $500 rifles that in a battle space concept are every bit as lethal as my $2400 AR, and this is more to their point of spare parts. They're gonna break fellas, invest in rebuild kits, I buy spare BCGs, springs, triggers, and have bags of springs and detents stored in your stuff, shit happens.
@@jw5297 Good comment. Unfortunately, I don't work on my own gun other than the very basics, like cleaning and swapping macro (very macro) parts.
@@thickseed I do unfortunately during trainings getting ran hard the weak links break, I do not try and replace springs on BCGs at that time, just pull and swap it out, but I have had trigger springs break, and I have gone to just using drop ins so I can just swap them out quickly and get back to it. I know springs aren't hard to replace but, it seems to take me more time to do that than swap out a drop in.
Just ordered a ROSCO 13.9” SPR barrel to replace a BCM ELW 14.5” barrel. The light BCM barrel hated suppressor heat. So it has to go.
And you guys are brave trouncing through the woods here in Florida I don't know how many golden orb Weaver spiders flee lol 😆
Great video as always
Also where is a good place to shoot rifles in central Florida ocala
Great video. That 13.9” looks pretty over gassed!
She is a bit gassy, most barrels from all the big manufacturers open that port up because they are afraid of the lack of reliability on smaller ports, so it makes sense, if you are trying to fine tune a gun the best way is to drill your own port size and experiment but that can be risky when it comes to accidental damage on your barrel and expensive if you mess it up
How poignant. I actually just started a new build today, ot's going to be a 13.9 P&W with a Ballistic Advantage mid-length Hanson and a Surefire 3 Prong. I'll be busting out the extra shims on that one.
My go too rig is BCM Upper with BA 13.9 Hanson , MI 11.5 Combat MLOK Rail , Vortex Micro 3x magnifier , EXPS3 , Cloud Owl , M4E1 Ambi Controls Lower with PDQ , FCD Ambi STS / Mag Release , BCM ENHANCED LPK Minus FCG , SD3G Trigger , BCM Sopmod MOD 1 Stock and YHM TURBO K With D.A. KEYMO Adapter & Pinned SOLGW Keymo Nox Flash Hider . I was going to SBR it but decided to PW . I'm PW this weekend . If you go to my YT Channel I posted YT Shorts of it . Along with my Block II-ish Rig and RATTLE can paint jobs on them ..
BA Hanson 13.×" - 14.5" 556n or 223W are IMO the absolute best Barrels for the $$$ no questions asked . I also have BA 223W 16" Tactical Gov / MK12 Mod H Premium Black Series Barrel . By far one of the most accurate barrels for 200 bucks ..
BA and Centurion are my favorite barrels period. Colt SOCOM Barrel is another personal favorite because I've been using it for 15 years lol
@@seanwhite304sounds like you’re build is Cool AF bro 👍🏻 ima go to you’re channel and check it out.
@@seanwhite304 nice! Yeah I got a BCM upper and BCM quad rail handguard to go with it. Haven't decided on a light yet but my plan was to move my Vortex UH-1 and Micro 3x magnifier off of my 18" LaRue and put that on tje 13.9". Primary Arms is supposed to come out with a 5x Microprism soon that I might put on the 18"
@@amagicalpotato PA 1× and 3× Micro Prisms are freaking awesome . If I could afford it I'd put ACOGs on everything. ACOGs are the ultimate Prisms but they are expensive. That's why I really glad PA started making Micro Prisms. It will be interesting if PA will ever make PLX Prism with even better Glass . I know they make SLX and GLX Prisms .
I did pick up BCM FDE Blem QRF12 they had on sale 120 for FDE QRF12 is a freaking steal
@@seanwhite304 are you copying my builds bro? I got the same BCM upper and handguard lol
what buffer weight did to guys run in the K9?
Just a question about the video. Where/what event is your footage from? Is that a competition, or is that part of your classes? Thanks guys, cheers.
*BASED*
Is that the somogear peq knockoff? Looks like it. How’s it running?
How does Rosco barrels compare to Criterion?
13.9 BA hanson BARREL with surefire warcomp 75gr tap ammo =❤
'Ol 62gr M855 GT's never disappoint. Really only see the point of shorter barrels for vehicle work and some urban application (and I've used SBR's and such in Contracting/ PSD and EP work), still much rather go for a 16in. minimum length barreled system for out in the sticks, just need the velocity and range/ reach in my neck of the woods and other METT-TC dependent austere environments.
Anyone ever done one of y'all's courses with a .308/ 7.62NATO Battle Rifle? That's a discussion to have 😉
We had a dude that brought a scar 17 every time, and he made it work. Also the target return data was fantastic because the steel wanted to just fall over and give up hahah, he was struggling on the faster and shorter range stages. For our actual scoped carbine class, you could run it, but we prefer guys to have 5.56, but it’s not a limiting factor
@@barrelandhatchet That's amazing hahahaha hellyeah!!
@@barrelandhatchetstruggling due to the recoil? I imagine it would be solely due to recoil since they are so dang light.
I haven’t seen this question asked anywhere…what barrel length would be necessary to create the same suppressor profile with the RISII M4A1 rail as there is with the RISII mk18 rail? And why doesn’t this barrel length exist? lol
Those are the groups at 50 yards? 😢
Where is a good place to order M885A1 from?
All the sites I've seen look like scams
What model of sling are you using on the featured rifle? Thanks
Contour sling from Lunar Concepts
Check out wisemen company
@@barrelandhatchet thank you
The ape defense barrels looks like they’re made by BA for my eyes.
🤘🤘
How’d the 12.5 group…?
Exactly identical almost to the 13.9
13.9 criterion core in stock right now… just bought another last night. Going to re- barrel my 12.5, not pleased with accuracy I’m getting out of it.
Sometimes it's not the barrel but how it was installed. If you lap the receiver, and bed it properly you might see it tighten up just from that process alone. Realistically there's more to installing a barrel than people think, and Criterion themselves will tell you that.
@@osprey2499 good feedback, thanks man. Not sure how I came across, but to clarify - my 12.5 is a lesser cheaper barrel, not a criterion. My one Criterion 13.9 is great, so that what I meant by picking up another.
@@hdub6527can’t go wrong with a criterion
👊💪🤙🇺🇸
Cool Airsoft rifles.
Lol the fastest bb’s on the planet
@@barrelandhatchet I'm glad you can take humor......its becoming a lost art. Great job guys. Solid content. Maybe I'll be up there one day.
2:40 Damn, are you ok? You’re flinching pretty bad. We’re you getting gassed?
Southpaw life
@@barrelandhatchet Yikes, that didn’t even dawn on me. I’m so sorry for your illness!
As I understand it ballistics you should either go 10 1/2 or 11 1/2 or go to the full 20. Anything under 20 you’re not going to get the full performance out of 556.
Everyone knows real men pack 20"