When Building a Superteam Goes Wrong
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- čas přidán 26. 04. 2024
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Discussing the fall of the Phoenix Suns and why they have little to work with for the future
#NBA #PhoenixSuns #KevinDurant #DevinBooker #BradleyBeal #NBAPlayoffs #NBAPlayoffs2024 #NBAUpdates #NBAVideos #NBARumors #NBADebates #NBANews #NBATrades #NBATradeRumors
My Bulls channel: / bullscentral - Sport
i knew this team would crumble since the beginning. instead of trading for Beal they should’ve just got some key players that can fit around Booker & Durant
Agreed
They need a real playmaking point guard and a big center that can actually rebound, someone like cp3 and ayton which they already had and traded..
Kinda like what the mavs did. They didn’t sign a another star player but got key pieces that’s could fit in their system
Quality point guard
@@JetEngine85 Ayton was ass and CP3 was old they needed upgrades from them
The nba is so ridiculous now. You can make 50 million dollars a year playing 40 or 50 games, never playing defense, and if at any point in time you're not happy with your team you can just demand a trade and they have to appease you.
^ This !. I agree. Just go look at say your 1990 NBA Hoops basketball cards and look at the back of the card. Now look at how many players played the entire season or damn close to the entire season. Its mind boggling. Remember when Jordan signed a $9million contract and that was like HUGE at that time. Now you got bench players getting payed more. Its out of control the $ these players are making and at the same time there are no fine details that force the player to do anything more than "they" feel like doing to an extent. Look at Zion, how many games has he played out of how many potential games ? And this guy is making boo coo bucks. Also teams that gamble on these super teams fuck up their whole future when it doesnt work out. I have a hard time watching or being a fan of certain players/teams in this league now. How you can be a fan ? This BS makes it nearly impossible for me to even take the NBA or certain other sports seriously. Just my 2 cents.
The reason this Big 3 doesn’t work is because they’re too similar to each other. None of them will beat you with quickness or strength. So it looks good when you have a favorable matchup but when you run a booker/KD pick n roll or a Beal/booker pick n roll or whatever combination of the three…you don’t get a meaningful advantage on the switch. They all have similar skill sets. Even Westbrook/Durant was better because Westbrook has a completely different skill set than Durant. He gives you explosion and quickness and rebounding Durant gives you finesse and skill. In order for a Big 3 to work well you need complimentary skill sets.
Perfectly put
Well said
Suns front office is like me playing GM in 2K. zero idea on how the NBA economy works
Everyone with atleast 2 braincells going into the szn knew this Suns team was bound to fail. KD latest superteam project blowing straight into his face it's hilarious 😂
I had them at least WCF but i also thought the twolves were gonna be washed again. They can beat Denver playing like this
That Beal signing was awful with the capital A
Don’t lie. Everyone thought the Wolves were done until the games started. If they get to the next round, Winner of that Denver series winning it all
@@Tougeryang85 Denver is in LA's head which is giving them a massive advantage, but they have not been playing dominant. They are noticeably weaker than last hear imo all year. Twolves are sharp and can take them down if they both keep playing the same. Im hoping wolves win it for another first time champ
I said as much pre-season multiple times. Where the Suns got killed in the last playoffs was at the forward position, and they failed to add either a league average starter or backup PF or SF, and they traded away a good enough center in Ayton for a not good enough center. It is not the "star" players that are the problem, it is that you cannot have just three starters who can score and a trash bench and contend. Suns got a combined three points from their PF and C starters last game, so the three "stars" are mostly double teamed, playing three on five on offense.
Then, as I also noted preseason, who are their defensive stoppers?
Suns traded away every player but Booker from the team that went to the Finals a few seasons ago, when they definitely should have just run it back with a better coach.
Devin Booker and Bradley beal don't feel that SUPER to me.
I never understood why people even consider Beal as a "Superstar". He's just a borderline All star at most in my opinion, and is injury-prone. Washington must've been so desperate to offer this man a $251 million contract.
Disagree on Booker but 100% agree on Beal. Booker has been the best player on the suns the last two years, even with KD, but Beal wouldn't even be in the 6th man of the year conversation if he had been coming in off the bench. On a team that didn't have a SG he'd be a starter, but he's not a star, and doesn't make sense for the Suns roster that is loaded with SG and lacks even a back up PG.
To OKC for veteran leadership? What leadership? He just wants to ball
You can say that, but we don't know until it happens, which it may not.
KD's never been a true Leader, that previous Contending OKC team - KD was their best player but it's real leader was Westbrook
@@unknownanonymous3329Westbrook being the leader... Is the reason they never did a damn thing after kd left
Yeah he can't lead, he's a bus rider., bus rider just wanna be on the ride and not drive..
@@onetwo8847 well at least when KD left Westbrook was still able to take them to the playoffs
Remember this guy said antman would demand a trade from mn .😂😂
It’s sad to see the Bucks and Suns have fallen from the highs of 2021. Both had the keys for continued success but both panicked after one bad postseason (Suns 2022 and Bucks 2023).
Suns will start to fade again and KD will force his way out.
At least Bucks were poised to repeat in 2022 before Middletons injury. Suns have had sad exits every year since
The issue is when everyone wants to win now, instead of building solid postseason teams and building a winning culture like the Spurs. But sometimes those solid teams will never win a rung but will be in contention every year. Unfortunately championships aren't a guarantee but that's the nature of sports.
So true... After the sun swept the nuggets did the nuggets panic? Nope
@@THEENERGYINHALER Yeahhh, but Nuggets were missing Michael Porter Jr and Jamal Murray when they got swept and knew those guys were coming back, and the Nuggets had a top level coach at the time too. The Suns, their actual problems were a coach who was crap in the playoffs and needing a good power forward. That was all they needed, well, and maybe a good back up point guard. But the Suns decided to only keep Booker from there and traded away everyone else.
The Warriors said over and over that part of their key to success was continuity of the core players, the Nuggets said last year that part of their success is continuity of the core players...nobody in the Suns front office was listening.
The bucks are just hurt lol
Everybody knew the bradley beal trade was a mistake except the owner of the suns. He is suffering from "new owner disease" where he doesn't care about the chemistry or fit just as long as he makes the news headlines for moving nba stars to his team. The nets owner had this disease in the last decade.. twice! Kd just so happens to be the pawn of these two owners 😂
T’Wolves owner did too which is why they got Gobert and look where they are now
@@petekrumb4936Beal is the guard version of gobert good on paper that’s it.
Ego is killing the game, and it has been for a long time.
Ego? Lol
Would there be a game without ego?
@@marcomoon6062 I'm just saying that the players have too much ego, which leads to a lack of team play.
Idk if okc would want to accept kd back lol
I don't think he wants to go back, either.
I hope not SGA is flourishing, having KD back would stunt his growth
Not just because of the players but these ridiculous high salary contracts, this is the end.
KD should've stuck with his first superteam, things would've worked out so much better for his career
F that because nobody would’ve been able to beat them
They didn‘t do his legacy any favours. Those championships were the least respectable of any player of his calibre.
The whole league wanted them dismantled
or at least with Bkn, first he demands his own team and then when he gets it he wants out
7:34 keep that snake away from OKC
who would've thought that giving up both your starting point guard and center for a player that has redundant skillset with your two best players and a lumbering center that's almost always hurt would turn out to be a bad decision. lmao
As an OKC fan since the Westbrook, Durant, Harden era, I think I can speak on behalf of other OKC fans. Nope, we good. We dont need a 🐍in the locker room. Try sending him back to GSW
Presti isn't that dumb.
People are realizing Super Teams made from scratch arent easy to make work.
the problem isnt the superstars, it is their contracts!!!
But that comes with the territory, it’s also a problem when their skills don’t complement each other
Beal is not and never has been a superstar
I've never seen KD try to be a leader. I also seem to remember him saying something like he just wants to play ball.
You’re right about these iso-heavy guys not meshing with today’s style of basketball, but I think that kind of misses the point. This unbalanced team would not have worked in any era. Would the Bulls have been better if they had 3 Jordans all on the court at the same time? No, they had 1 Jordan already. They needed a Pippen to be a reliable 2nd option, a Rodman to grab rebounds/play defense, a Paxson/Kerr to hit wide open 3s… and that’s what the Suns don’t have.
Great observations
I saw a Suns team that was slow on the draw on both ends of the floor. There Wolves caused mass confusion on the offensive with their constant on-ball pressure. The Suns on the other hand had lead feet after the first half. The offensive minded Suns forgot that you have to occasionally play some D
I havent seen snake as dedicated to building a superteam as KD is. My respect to the snake.
See the thing is super teams still can work they just need to have a leader. Every failed super team had no sure leader. Just a bunch of talented hoopers who don’t care for intangibles they just want to hoop.
Two categories of super teams have succeeded so far: teams with LeBron James, and the Celtics in 2008 I think it was. So basically, they can work if one of the three stars is the most dominant player of the era, or if you get really lucky for one season.
@@tribalypredisposed Durant being added to the Warriors was overkill
@@lopoa126 I don’t think KD really made them a better team. Sure, he was a cheat code, but the flow was worse because you could see guys making sure he got his, where before no one cared who got touches or shots, they just wanted to win.
In any case, as good as that team was it was not a super team, it was just a normal team with a core they drafted and some good players they added over the years in trades. Just like Denver, sure they traded for Aaron Gordon and sure they are a great team, but it is all in the normal process of good draft picks and smart one at a time trades they got here. Neither team gave away a bunch of players and draft picks just to get one or two stars in a trade, neither team benefitted from stars deciding together to go play there.
Remember when KD left golden state to win it on his own? but went to the nets and suns and teamed up yet once again lol
It's always nice to see money fail.
idk if i'd call Milwaukee a super team
The problem with superteams is, the superstars tend to mostly have the same skillset. The superteams that clicked was mainly with superstars that had different skills on the court.
For example:
The Warriors death lineup had shooting (Steph and Klay), defense (Draymond and Klay), and a nuclear option in the midrange when needed (KD)
The Celtics had the inside game (KG), the midrange game (Pierce) and the outside (Allen) covered
The last Spurs team had a slashing playmaker (Parker), a post threat (Duncan), and two swiss army knives (Manu and Kawhi)
Look at the numbers for this playoff series and you will see that depth is what cost them the series. The Grayson Allen injury and limited bench production from Phoenix made the difference. Booker and Durant played as well as Edwards and Towns, but the supporting cast didn't hold up for Phoenix.
You know why Golden State and Miami super teams were successful. Good coaching and they had a system now LeBron and Durant wants to play ISO With their super teams and they do not work
The original superteam may be the 99 rockets with Barkley Hakeem and pippen, or Barkley drexler hakeem the year before
Agree.
People kept talkin KG, Ray Allen, Pierce
but this is really the original.
Ey, i think it was EFF or GSc but in some major metric, the Miami Big 3 was #1, #2 and #4 in the league when they came together. 3 of the Top5!!! That was Nuts😅
KD to OKC might be a way for him to rehab his legacy...
Bradley Beal is a great scorer, and that’s it. Him being a third option you really can’t use him to his best abilities because obviously you’re going to booker or kd before Beal so Beal kinda is just like an odd man out it would’ve been better to get more role players who can play defense and rebound
It's over, KD. You're old. Dusty. Bad ankle. Worse knee. Never won anything without the dubs. Never will. Retire already.
Bad Achilles. Not ankle... But yep
When exactly do Supereams ever go right? They almost always fail. We need to stop calling them superteams and start calling them top heavy teams. It's not illegal to funnel all of your teams salary cap into three players. Anyone can do it. But history shows having a superstar, a complimentary star and great depth has always been the best way to win. Phoenix have zero advantages over Denver even though they are a textbook superteam. That goes for LA too.
I think they will be fine. KD will fetch a hefty trade in the form of young players and picks to restore their pool. Plus they would still have Booker and Beal who were not bad players in any way. I think all the doom and gloom posting about their pick situation is a bit overly dramatic.
As a Suns fan I believe we need to trade one of the big three this offseason in order to improve. Beal would be ideal to move but he would be hard with his no trade clause. I think Durant should be traded. I saw a trade proposed with the Hawks where Durant would be traded to the Hawks for Dejounte Murray, Deandre Hunter, and some first round picks. Honestly I don't hate that trade and getting a good point guard to give Beal and Booker looks in Murray would be nice. We definitely need a good point guard this offseason.
“Super Team” has become a bit of a misnomer. Isn’t it really only when the best, near their prime, get together? This wasn’t no super team.
We need to really consider what a super team is. A superteam is a team of 3 top players in their "prime" with the intent to monopolize the league. The goal is the shortcut and FastTrack the journey of obtaining a championship.
Yeah, three over the hill top twenty five guys (being generous) plus twelve scrubs is not a super team. This season their player efficiency rankings are 22nd for Booker, 28th for KD, 103rd for Beal...that is not a super team, it is just a team. Indiana is way ahead of that, with four players in the top 32 of PER, anyone calling them a super team?
It’s a superteam in salary only. They can consistently make the playoffs but not contenders
Defense + energy + teamwork + balance + depth lets go Minnesota
Super team would be a team filled with the best players available playing as a team, Suns' definition of a super team is hiring mercenaries to play whenever they feel like it.
Veteran leadership 😂😂😂
7 if you include Crowder before he was flipped to the Bucks.
I said it when the Beal trade happened: Matt Ishbia is an idiot. It's fine that he was making aggressive moves; he just didn't think them through. First of all, although there were valid reasons to fire Monty Williams, he still shouldn't have been fired. Trading for KD was a big risk alone, but trading for Beal? Terrible. The minimal return they got from the CP3 and Ayton trades made it look even worse. I don't understand how this man sat courtside during the Nuggets series last year, saw the issues with his roster, and thought Beal was the answer. This roster lacks a legit floor general, depth (namely at the forward spot), size, viable defenders, and a more modern play style. Even if they tried to trade KD as you suggested, I don't think teams like OKC or the Knicks would give up their depth for him, and draft picks don't equal money. Not to mention that being stuck with Booker and Beal is still a bad situation.
Lebron is the only true super team that really made success. Warrior is not a super team. The only star they acquire is KD. They only have to adjust their play style for 1 player. The Celtics is a group of star player almost at the end of their career. They are pretty much similar to Dirk championship year. On top of that, they only won 1 championship. They may be super, but the success is arguable. This is what super team today are missing. They have star player from completely random game mechanics and just mix them like a salad. My view of super team is this, 3+ star player from completely different team while at their peak. A minimum of 2 ring for s super team to claim success.
They don’t trade Ayton and they’re playing in the WCF. Vogel’s best teams had reliable post defense down low….or they trade for a reliable defender if they weren’t sold on Ayton. The trade for Bradley was just awful.
NOW they HAVE TO trade KD before he opts out and demands a trade.
Shit....you may be right about the Knicks...
Randle and Bojan plus some picks get the job done...damn.
I'm no NBA GM, but I feel like having a roster with no point guard at all
Probably not a good idea
Lol, yep
A lot of people saw PHX as a dark horse champion at the beginning of this year, and I was like... Sure....😂
KD is just making sure to reinforce Draymond's statement about him
Both of them have issues….but if Draymond kept his cool and mouth shut, they would have won another ring with Durant. Sometimes KD get in some weird funk, but he usually comes back around.
Nah. The issue was thinking Beal was a star, trading for him when he has the worst contract in the league and a no trade clause.
If someone could convince Beal to use his trade clause and go away, he could be traded for a decent point guard, an efficient role player, and a first round pick.
Nobody wants Beal. Overrated Overpaid and injury prone.
If the Suns get swept in the first round imagine the offseason knowing all they can do is just run it back. I think they should just blow the team up get all their picks back rebuild through the draft the proper way not taking shortcuts just like ofc did. Suns have basically suffered the same fate as the Nets, i wont be surprised if Kd demands a trade to get onto a really contenting team.
I know it may not happen, but hear me out - KD to the San Antonio Spurs. Gregg Popovich would love to pair KD with Victor Wembanyama and the Spurs have draft picks from the Dejounte Murray trade which could be very valuable if the Atlanta Hawks implode. And sure, the Spurs might not be that competitive during KD's final years of his contract, but a Wemby-KD pairing will bring in some eyeballs for sure (Wemby on his own does it already). The problem is that San Antonio doesn't have other assets (other than the draft picks from Atlanta that is) that would be of interest for Phoenix.
The Suns should've never traded for Bradley Beal and his albatross contract even if they got him for a steal. KD will make $51M in 2025 and nearly $55M in 2026, which is bad enough, but Beal is set to make $54M in 2026 and has a player option worth of a little over $57M for 2027. The Miami Heat were interested in both Beal and Damian Lillard before and/or during the offseason, but TBH Pat Riley is happy that he dodged 2 bullets.
Whats funny is wade in 2010 was seen as a top 3 player top 2 guard and in 2011 still top 4 player at worst next to kobe bron and mvp rose but in the playoffs seen as a top 2 guy by the middle of those finals and next to dirk by the end at 1 with bron at 3 as kobe looked old getting swept not making top 5 with kd and westbrook surpassing him...and in 2012 wade was still a top 4 player top 3 in the playoffs and the top guard in the playoffs and best guard outside of like paul in the regular season and in 2013 easily still a top 5 player and top 4 playoff guy ..people pretend like wade fell off...
I still can't believe that the Suns traded their Coach that took them to the finals
Please make that make sense cos i don't understand why
If they trade Durant, they should probably trade Booker too as the picks aren't going to be on his timeline. They could probably get 9 first round picks for those two guys?
Raptors is the best fit for KD right now.
I don't agree that "if you have a chance to get KD, you do it." Why? He's old and hugely costly. Why would you trade four 1st round picks for him? it makes no sense.
Kevin durant is the ish smith of superstars iykyk
Stop
Looks like KD is on the move again he dosent want to drive this bus anymore
In the last 3 seasons kevin Durans teams ..
Swept in first round
Missed the playoffs
Swept in first round
😂
It is end of **random superteams**. Just sign 3 max players with no consideration for their fit. Like Beal does not complement Booker and Durant. Kawhi & PG13 & Beard are actually well fit big-3 and they make mediocre center like Zubac play great. The injuries are the issue with the Clippers. Gobert in MIN is good fit bc he complements KAT's softness. Spida and Garland are bad fit, bc they are too similar. Giannis, Dame and Khris should be good fit, byt the injuries caught up to them. .
Okc Brooklyn Phoenix sensing a pattern
Suns should of never traded Mikal Bridges and Cam for an old brittle KD. Matt Ishbia messed up big time.
suns let it slip through their fingers. they should targeted jrue holiday. so when the bucks traded holiday for lillard, they should cash in, trading cp3 plus multiple draft picks for jrue with maybe nurkic. ayton could have been traded for top supporting role players.
I want Kevin Durant Trade to Chicago Bulls this summer offseason move 2024
It's kind of disingenuous to say they have no picks for the next 6 years. They have a first rounder in 26 and 28. And it'll likely end up being their own, as I don't see the Wizards being competitive anytime soon. Even if it's a late first rounder, it's still a pick.
Also Sun would of had a solid team has they not gone star hunting, they could of had a team of Bridges, Booker, Ayton, cam johnson. Just need to make a few moves add some depth may pick up a star in free agency
Without CP that team ain't shit
The only way I could feel more elated aboot KD and the Phux boys losing the way they did would have been at the hands of OkC. 💯
DONT EVER EVER suggest KD to OkC..EVER AGAIN.
KD does super teams wrong. He doesnt care about defense at all.
Also crumbles under pressure
Funnily enough, you mention that one of the problems that the Suns have is that they don't take shots. You mention that the Suns are 27th in the league in total FGA per game....which is true....
Do you know who's 29th in the league in total FGA per game?
Minnesota.
What team is kd going to next cause he’s gana want a other trade again lol
This "super team" is now literally being bodied by Minnesota' tall, young and success hungry roster...
The second Beal joined the team, I knew it was a wrap. That dude is ALWAYS hurt and has never won anything.
What happened to building up new, young talent? These last few seasons for the Suns felt like a failed get rich quick scheme.
Ya forgot about the Rockets, Suns, Trailblazers, Pistons, Jazz, Knicks super teams. Backcourt 2000? Your memory isn’t serving you well. 😂 This wasn’t new in the 2000’s 🤣. Been going on since the 80’s & 90’s
Im good with this. When my Northwoods Dawgs gave up the whole grocery list to snag the stifle tower you basketball stans feasted with jokes and memes. Nobody batted an eye when the eclipsed Suns gave up theirs and their mothers houses for Bradley Beal. One of those trades is paying dividends while the other is about to get swept like the kitchen floor after the kids make their own breakfast.
This is what happens when your owner thinks he knows best and doesn’t let ppl do their job.
KD & Kyrie with that young talent n BKLYN would of been perfect. I never will understand whybthey got Harden & gutted their team
3 superstars but no money for a decent supporting cast is a sad joke. The obvious solution would be for those super-duper stars to demand less, so there's money left for the team.
But the same selfishness that prevents that is the selfishness that's the finishing blow on the court.
Yeah, guys aren’t going to do that anymore. They care more about their pay and individual accolades then winning now days
Crazy they would never do it, send KD to Miami 😅
Malone and Peyton where chasin a ring is why they went to the lakers
They could trade Booker to the Nets for Simmons and a bunch of their picks back, then trade everyone and tank. Probably the quickest way for them to rebuild.
Why would booker want to go the nets? Kd should go to Houston imo
@@mrawesome7175 He doesn't have a no trade clause. And hell no Houston wants no part of KD.
@@dr.wongburger2947 the reason kd went to the suns is because he wants to compete . The Nets are mediocre
@@mrawesome7175 we were talking about Booker, not KD
Trae young for Bradley Beal. Both teams get what they need.
2020 Lakers also superteam, but with washed stars but still won the chip 😅
MJ, Pippen and Rodman is a Superteam
Beal probably gets traded for better depth. That contract, some dumpster team (chicago) will probably want him to put up numbers and get butts in seats.
If he comes back to the warriors I wouldn’t even be mad, even if he went back to OKC on a vet minimum in the future I’ll be ok with that. He’s just to prideful. It’s clear he can’t win elsewhere building these damn teams.
i said before, beal deal was super wrong
Lucky for the Nets...lol
They have Ben Simmons
Im sorry but KD was just never that guy, maybe he was for a year or 2 in OKC but ever since then he's been almost a "fake" all-star, hes just not cut from the same cloth that Kobe, Luka and Lebron are from
He is anything but a "fake All-Star." He has been playing at a legitimate superstar level since he left OKC and he still is. He actually was 'that guy' in OKC.
Lebron and Luka not even cut from the same clothe as Kobe shhhh be quiet
🤓☝🏾 Well actually, KD joined the Nets when they already had Kyrie for a year not the other way around.
That's not true actually, go back and look it up. KD was just injured that first year with the Nets
The current big contracts hurt depth and the current bucks are not a super team as khris is hurt older dame is older and they lost grayson and jrue for it with bad coaching innlbrivers you missed the 2014 cavs with love kyrie bron before injuries and the warriors dynasty becoming established which it wasn't in july of 2014 or in mid 2015
There is no hope with the Suns. Trading 36 yr old Kevin Durant for lottery picks is not something any team is willing to do. Durant isn’t Lebron James. He’s already slowed down and you will even see more considerable decline next year and the year after. Why? Because he lacks muscle mass. He was able to get by when he was younger but now at this age, he really has very few attributes. He’s tall, that’s it. Any team like the Knicks or OKC willing to give up first round picks for a 36 yr old or 37 yr old Durant deserves what happens to them. Late first round picks maybe…but even that’s not a good idea when Durant will decline significantly next year. Basketball is a physical and psychological game. Durant doesn’t believe anymore and his results are getting worse. And One Hoops believes that teams will want a psychologically broken 37 yr old Durant. I don’t buy it.
After Book’s last 3 playoff runs, who wants him?
2004 lakers dont count. Payton and malone were ehh by then. What about clyde to the rockets that should count if you counted kd lol
Miami was supposed to win more than five championships, and it was kind of a miserable failure even though they should've been far more dominant. But the main problem is that even though superstars make "sacrifices" for superteams, it's not nearly sacrifice enough. The superstars often make more money from endorsements than salary, anyway, and if they gave up just 25% of their enormous contracts, they'd have a kickass supporting cast.
Boston has this problem staring them in the face, and the Lakers can't get traction because of it. Contrary to popular opinion, it's still teams more than superstars that win. Ask the Pistons. The league is set up to prevent the all-out success of superteams through simple economics. And superstars would still rather have $40 million over $30 million than have a championship ring.
It's not that superstars aren't superstars. It's that if you spend all your money on a couple of chocolate chips, the rest of your cookie is gonna be all flour, and it's gonna be a failure of a cookie, overall.