The photography community is TOXIC (Picture This! Podcast)
Vložit
- čas přidán 6. 08. 2024
- Learn more at Skillshare!
The first 500 to use this link will get a 2-month free trial: skl.sh/northrup11
The photography community is, on the whole, the most antagonistic, abusive, and destructive (on the Internet). OK, most people in the community are wonderful - but a small number of the community are making it a really toxic environment. We talk about the different types of toxicity we encounter, with the hope that identifying it will make it easier to handle. We talk about why people might be toxic, including mental illness and poor social skills. We also talk about how to make sure you're a supportive member of the community.
I rarely often comment something in CZcams but this time I needed to say it: one of the things that brings me to your videos is that sense of respect for others opinions and that cool dynamic between you two. Thank you for producing content, I've learned many good things from you in last years.i know this comment don't say much, but in a digital world full of resentment I think that will do some good to spread some love. Cheers from Portugal!
Once when I was shopping with my son, we encountered one of the most unpleasant sales people it has ever been my displeasure to meet. After we left, I looked at my son, wondering if I should try to explain to him why some people are so nasty, and he said, "Maybe he had a poopy diaper." That's been my philosophy for dealing with toxic people ever since: maybe they're not actually that bad, they just have poopy diapers.
skazmarek Your son is wise beyond his years. ❤️
There are limits of course (like abusers whose abuse comes from their own trauma) but this is a fantastic way to live life in many ways. Just yesterday I had a guy get up in my face because he thought I was taking photos of him and I just sat him down to show him what I was actually shooting and give him some time to vent about the terrible day he was having. It didn't take any effort from me beyond not matching his agression to defuse the whole situation
Chelsea: Your amount of smiling is JUST RIGHT. You have really gotten that smile balance thing down perfectly. Tony: How dare you teach me thousands of things about photography for free in a kind and thoughtful way!!!
Tony: *talks about Linux*
Chelsea: *silence*
Me: “I gotchu, Tony.”
Ditto
I paused and gave the play by play of this scene to my husband. True.
I would say you are silver haired. That troll needs to calibrate his monitor . . .
Best comment ever HAHAHAHA
Just, Excellent! :D
Gordon Elwell the troll needs to recalibrate his BRAIN 🧠 because it’s clearly dead 💀
Silver Fox in Socks!
Gordon Elwell There is an app for that.
Thanks for shouting out my courses on Skillshare guys! I’ve followed your work for as long as I can remember, so it definitely means a lot :)
Loved it!
It's not just the photography community -- anyone who goes on Facebook for any length of time will see that the internet has brought out the worst in us. The aggression people repress in their everyday lives (due to various life circumstances) seems to explode on the internet. It's a minefield.
You are quite right. Probably Chelsea / Tony mostly visit photography related sites/ blogs etc. hence they have built up this opinion.
The online community as a whole is toxic to an extent. As you have said correctly people find online communities to vent their frustration.
Check comments on news articles and you will understand what toxic means... I have seen people being unnecessarily mean on sites like Amazon!
I stopped going to the Amazon community, because of the hostile culture too.
I am now seeing, how people are becoming rude in real life. Online was just the start, I notice it when I am taking photos of popular spots, where many other photographers are. They often act arrogant and rude and it used to be still different 5 or 6 years ago. Very bad.
It’s not just the photographers, camera communities as a whole hide some of the most toxic people I’ve ever run into.
I thought Apple vs Android was bad 😳
Approach a group of cyclists and ask them about disc brakes vs rim brakes. You will be opening a nasty can of worms 😅
@@Jorge_Rodriguez83 LOL, I want to buy a bike soon and really was wondering which was 'better', disc or rim brakes. Thanks for the warning.
@@frednil8304 Put a disk on the front and rim brake on the back. Taking cover now!
Try convincing someone that has spent a fortune on Snap-on tools that he could have saved $1,000,000 lol
auto vs. manual in the car "community" is also a fave polarizing topic of unending debate.
You white haired informative man always teaching me valuable information, how dare you provide quality content!
Dude, seriously.
I love that Tony doesn't dye his hair. He "owns it" like a role model!
...for free!
Hogwash! 😂
@@BlueEyeVisuals but what if he bleaches it white?
Thanks, guys. You’re awfully kind considering the amount of abuse you’re subjected to.
Literally was in the middle of writing a post about this very topic. There are some awful people in photography community, I have found it to be more toxic than not sadly.
Paul Pichugin pretty much.. I came from music industry and thought ‘that’ was bad. Surprise!
@@rdpete yep, I worked in recording studios, met far less divas there 😂
Politicians and hyper partisans are human garbage
Hello Mr. & Mrs. Northrup
Thank you both for sharing your thoughts on this topic. In the last 10 years, I’ve become more aware of the way my words and actions affect others and feel I’ve made great strides in changing my poor habits. It’s a never ending challenge to not be an asshole to others.
Thanks again 👍🏼
I like when you guys try to nurse the trolls of the underworld back to health. I especially love when Chelsea just straight up goes in for revenge lol. She's good :)
Did you see the one where she is "Ron"? Crop factor part 3 I think it was, both Tony and Chelsea are sporting Van Dyke's, it's pretty epic.
And here he is 😉
Ow photog alien lurking 👽
@@blazeking1211 yup they are the ones that start the hysteria with their bs.
@Vince Revolution lol
“Anonymous Animosity.” You’ve clinically diagnosed the majority of the CZcams comment section. 👍🏽
Or internet in general
You guys rock! I'm new to this photography thing. You guys are so entertaining, down to earth & informative! Glad I found your stuff & bought your books......it's been the most help for me as a beginner than anything.
"prioritize facts and knowledge over relationships" Well said Tony.
I try to be just as mean to people in real life as I am online. I think the consistency is appreciated.
Chortle...Now that was good! I needed that! 😂
@Jarrod Stark "You wouldn't say these thing to people in Real life, you cowardly Troll!"
"Believe me, i definetly would."
Balderdash
Sandro Martens If you knew me you would know differently.
Is you say so then I believe you. I thought you were making a joke.
As a newbie I have been pretty shocked by how mean spirited photographers are online. I recently decided to stop watching "critiques" from Fstoppers, because they laugh at people's photos and don't provide feedback. I don't understand that- I thought the point was to teach and inspire, not make a game out of it or hurt people's feelings. Thank you guys for actually being nice and informative.
26Bluegb agreed about the fstoppers reviews, they’re ... not great.
Really appreciate how positive you both are! I have a long way to go still, but I am light years from where I started thanks to what you’ve taught me. Thank you for putting up with the nonsense and putting yourselves out there.
You’re a sweet couple, your videos are a unique mix of science, entertainment, education and full of insights. Chelsea, your smile is just perfect, both at min and max range.
I felt the need to show appreciation for tour work after having watched your videos for years without commenting!
PS.: I live in Germany, hope to meet you at next photokina and say thank you in person!
Great advice that anyone commenting should: *A.* assume the creator will read it and *B.* assume that they can be identified. I always find I'm a lot happier when I don't read the comments. It's a shame because I want to interact with the supportive people on my channel (who are in the majority), but unfortunately, they lose out because of the trolls.
Skip 'm quickly, don't make any videos about them and go ahead with what you are doing. And try to find the perfect camera...
Yes its a shame, it is singularly the one reason that I don't start a vlog channel myself, I know I would get pissed-off with the nastiness.
@@IvanDoherty1 Simple: Ban and laugh at the trolls. Also, if the channels is not too big yet, moderated comments.
I have been on furlough and spent more time looking at photography CZcamss to improve my photography skills. Your site is outstanding and I have Ben impressed with your breadth of knowledge and professionalism of you site. You have been very good at helping me understand my camera better. My last words on personality: tony you have such a great style and knowledge you don’t make me feel bad as a beginner, and Chelsea you are great in your way to communicate on the art side of photography. Keep up the great work I feel so much better about my photography and myself. Also, the two of you make a great team.
Thank you for this most needed video. I hope it opens of the eyes of many that are guilty of this ignorance while on social media venues. People may not want to face this fact, and that is their prerogative, but maybe next time they will think twice before posting their damaging statements. Keep up the great work.
Ha, Exactly, same in every industry, when you do better or are the best on what you do, more often others who do the same tear you down instead of improving themselves and what they do...
yeah that Northrup couple is terrible! they give us tons of free content and are just so nice ugh its terrible! Lol i love you guys dont murder me
Coffee House Media careful now, Tony just admitted to liking guns, and you know he is a wildlife sharpshooter. Best be nice ;)
@@BartRos1980 You see Tony and Chelsea robbing a Coffee House?
Sarcasm alert!
I agree with most, if not all that you said.
I've been in photography a long time but stepped away for a number of reasons during the transition from film to digital. When I returned, the digital equipment was more than I could afford in the wake of a couple of layoffs. But I managed to get a Canon Powershot with a superzoom and returned to wildlife photography. I had a couple of pros kind of look down their noses at me -- "That's just a point-and-shoot" -- while ignoring that I still had to use the skills I had learned in film to operate the camera, whether manually, with shutter priority, aperture priority, setting ISO, etc.
I told them I was shooting with what I could afford and would be content with that, even if they were not. And I think that is how you have to look at it.
Certainly the camera helps the photographer, but a skilled photographer can make do and still produce good images. And I accept and even seek out constructive criticism in order to grow. But ultimately, I shoot for myself (it's a little late in life to try to get back into photography professionally -- besides, news organizations today don't care about experience anyway.
The bottom line is what I do is satisfying to me, and the nature photography I do in the Chicago suburbs is appreciated by my Facebook friends/followers -- and by some of the pros and semi-pros who appreciate my passion for God's creation and for photography.
To heck with the trolls and rude folk!
Love you guys and appreciate your work!
Today on can buy gear and go " pro "
This is such a great video, I especially how you addressed it, it's something we don't always think about when interacting with people online
Thank you so much for your level headed examination of so many subjects. I enjoy what you have to share! Love you guys!
We had a discussion on one one of the D850 group about this. Some of them get seriously snarky if a noob asks a question. They attack like they have a share in Nikon stocks.
Yeah. That’s gotten exhausting
When people spend $$$$, they inevitably want to protect their investment. Nobody wants to be told that the gear they bought is flawed or useless when they spend so much. This is not limited to photography. Honestly there are indeed people who brainlessly stand up for their gear because in their minds they bought "the best available".
Infact there are no camera, lens, tripod etc. that is perfect in anyway.Regardless of the brand, the price, the quality. There are only stuff that work better, and faster in a workflow. This line is so shallow that it defines whether a gear sucks or not.
Nik●n Corp President bashing other brands alot
Thats their corporate culture
gsddame it's not just Nikon. I left a Canon group on FB because (1) overt intolerance of newbies' questions; (2) random attacks of anything not Canon for no specific reason; (3) trolling by fanboys of other companies. It stopped being fun.
Hah! I love my Sony group on Facebook. Super people, always helping each other.
I'm sure if people had their Full Names and Addresses tied to their accounts for the public to see, 90% of people would think twice before they said something online.
Sadly, creeps exist and privacy is a concern, so it wouldn't be that good of an idea.
I use my full name, and you ?
@@videojeroki I only use my first name. But, what I was referring was if people *had* to use their first name.
@@videojeroki .....you are so correct
I'd be prepared to back the idea
@@blazeking1211 You've made quite the argument there. I agree with you. When I wrote my comment, I was talking about an "if" situation. It's not like I want it to be that way.
I really enjoy your channel. Informative and great humor. I share your channel with as many people as I can.
Thank you for this video, its been long overdue, I love your content and your style, Keep on doing what you're doing.
I feel your pain! ;-) I purchased an early Z6 and returned it after a week of trying to get action auto focus to work. Then I posted info on line in the appropriate Facebook group. My purpose was to alert others to the same problems your review later found. My conclusion was to stay with my D500 and D850 until Nikon got it right. WELL, you know that about a third of the posted responses were SOOOO negative and personal that I finally deleted the post. Most of us appreciate your expertise and candor with your analysis of equipment. Thanks for being you! ;-)
Thanks for the validation and sorry we didn't get our Z6 review out quick enough to save you the trouble!
This exactly why I’m waiting, I just sold my d750, so I’ll keep my d810 and d500.
You guys are amazing and this episode is brilliant.
I love your guys channel and you 2 are awesome !!!! I love this video and it has one amazing message !!!! I started photography 10yrs or a tad ago, but I did it on accident and it helped my mental health .... people started asking me to do weddings and portraits but it felt like a job and it was so I backed off and so I started photography again and added hiking so made a vlog to make something positive !!!! Awesome video and love ya guys !!!!!
Tony, you're such a white-haired nice chap with a prodigious amount of knowledge about photography who always teaches me much more than I was expecting to learn. Chelsea, you're such a gorgeous woman endowed with a beautiful photogenic face. You guys do have a rare talent that appeals to a global audience. Greetings from Jordan, Mideast - thousands of miles away.
All of the FREE quality content from you guys, I just HAD too buy ur book! Thanks Tony and Chelsea!
Thanks!!
So nice to listen to your photography philosophy - I have a brother who keeps putting down my photos, defines what kind of pictures I take and would not even touch my camera because it is not a Cannon because it will "contaminate" his hands. I could learn from him but it is hard to listen to someone who thinks your work is trash and really does not give you constructive criticism. Wow, I just vented.
Thanks for your perspective. I think photography is so subjective and is something that involves continuous learning, and as you said, if you are going to criticize be positive and thoughtful, not just plain mean.
Tony, I love your hair by the way 😃
I really enjoy your channel. It is very informative and enjoyable to watch. I just wanted to thank you for making this video. I am starting a Zoom photography group with a few friends and the reminders, especially about no rules, were taken to heart. I will try to keep everyone positive. Thank you again.
I enjoy all of your podcasts and have been a subscriber for a couple of years now. This one, though, really resonates with me and I have even more appreciation for your channel. Thank you for this very balanced and enjoyable discussion of a topic that is often avoided. All the best to you both.
Robert
Clearly all that matters to Tony is that Pixel loves daddy more than mommy.
"Nerds will know what I'm talking about." Love it, you are the best.
Thank you for a great show (always) and thanks for bringing this up. I see a lot of it.
Love all the good points you both make about most reasons why people can become toxic. Thanks for taking the time to address this issue in our global community.
I don't get why someone would want to be toxic in photography, it should be more about having fun. Sometimes people can do jokes or sarcasm , but there should be no anger in any of it. If someone has to jump to personal attacks, then they are likely experiencing some psychological issue, (most likely, cuteness withdrawal from going too long without seeing some cute dogs, cats, birds, squirrels and other forms of extreme cuteness).
I love squirrels!
@@Aciimov One of my fav subjects yo!
Hogwash 😂😂😂😂😂😂 Great topic T&C
Manny got criticized on his Instagram for using too much of the liquified tool on photoshop. I saw that. Haters everywhere. Ya tu sabe bro.. lol 🇵🇷👌
Its a great topic. Done very compassionately. Good one T+C. Is Manny always lurking?
danny castro lol, some peeps
danny castro 🤷🏼♂️ I still don’t know what he meant by that lol
Manny Ortiz...the number one troll in the photography community. NUMBER ONE. :-D :-D :-D
You guys are awesome for putting this conversation up! Its cool to see people like yourselves having an honest conversation about underlying issues. Great content!
Great videos! I don't know how many I have watched now, but the number keeps growing! I started with one of your camera reviews. Keep up the good job!
I think you guys are awesome, and I'd totally say that to your faces...at least my online and real life persona's are consistent :)
I've been following you a while now and I think the effort you make when producing varied content is strong, great, but for some reason YT serves me up your more negative slant titles and films, and that by definition I guess is the reasoning behind this topic. Negativity sells, positivity well, it sells, but not quite in the same viral way. I appreciate this title is better 'click baited' than something like; "Let's make this photography community a better place," and I wonder if the negative angle is something we've all become way too accustomed to across social media generally - we almost need that to even engage our enquiry. The irony of my question isn't lost on me, because it did get my attention, and a thumb up and a full view. 🤪😂🤭
you guys are awesome!! even if we don't agree on a particular subject, your dedication to provide the best education and training talks by itself!! I have learn so much from your videos....so grateful for having you !! love u !!
Such a good video guys! I love the way you guys think and how humble you are.
You guys deserve everything you've got.
I'm Linux person, a tech person and now I've been learning Photography, I though I was broadening my horizons, but looks like I'm just continuing my decent to toxic internet troll 😂
Hi, I approve this message.
Then have you discovered Shane Milton? czcams.com/channels/9Xdl6CglNwxCZqvwKuE9TA.html - he is a quite nice guy, professional photographer and Linux user. It took me ages to find this combination here on CZcams, so I thought this might interest you.
A REAL troll would use more ALL-CAPS for emphasis, and makes more speling mistakes. Keep practicing 😜
Yup...you need to use CAPS LOCK more. It totally validates your argument. CAPS LOCK MAKES ME RIGHT.
Thanks for the advice is this better?
Vim IS THE BEST COMMAND LINE EDITOR EVER! Anyone that uses Emac or Nano is COMPLETE IDIOT adn should just throw thenselves in teh trashm
I think that you two people are charming and not only know what you are talking about in photography but frankly your sites would be great for couples therapy as examples of mutual respect and humour.
after watching 20 of your videos i spose i should subscribe and start liking these videos huh? :D thanks for all the awesome content!
Mom, dad, I think you guys are a very nice and incredibly valuable part of the photography community, watching this in the evening while having coffee and baking bread just letting go of the stress of today. I call you mom and dad because the atmosphere i find myself in whilST watching this is like listening to mom and dad discussing things in the evening when the day has settled. Very comforting and interesting. Thanks guys!
Totally agree about the tall poppy syndrome thing. People these days seem to think the more expensive the gear the better the photographer. I seriously get sick of hearing about how we all need the latest and greatest gear, Im using gear ranging from six to eight years old and still getting great photos and making sales. Im always hearing how I should upgrade but my attitude is if it aint broken why fix it. I have no issues with canon dynamic range and I also use Fuji yet I've been told I should move to Nikon and Sony. New cameras are great but they do not give you artistic talent. I noticed this when I saw online some work from a young girl who used an entry level camera and a cheap 50mm lens, her work was amazing yet someone on the same forum with a high end camera with a very expensive lens could not match her.
I reckon camera technology plateaued a few years ago, like phones and computers generally they got good enough for it to not matter too much anymore, the snag being that manufacturers love a bit of gear snobbery, otherwise they wouldn't sell the new version. (Hello Apple!)
But mostly, I just wanted to play surname snap, high five.
Oh, yeah, I'm just an amateur, but that is totally true, especially with cameras. As was pointed out already, I think cameras have generally plateaued as far as the tech goes and the general public. All one really needs is a camera that works for them and allows the individual to accomplish what they want to accomplish effectively and efficiently. I had my N80 until around 2010-2011 simply because it still did what I needed it to do and got great results with it; honestly, one of the biggest reasons why I switched to digital was because it was becoming more and more difficult to actually get film developed.
Yeah there's definitely a point where, as long as it's not distracting, camera quality isn't that important.
Julie - Word, I hear you yo! The specs matter less and less with each generation. DR is just the latest buzz spec, used to be megapixels, also you will hear people go on about how AA filters make photos less sharp. Not saying these things are not important, only that people are overly focused on them without any mind to whether or not what they have is already more than enough. It is all relative to what you do, and if what you have does what you need then focus on the art, it is just so much more important to know how to take a photo that is interesting than it is to have the latest gear. Then again I have close to 15K in gear now, so maybe I am not the best measure of this, lol!
My "rule" on upgrading is based on your improving skill. At some point, as you get better, you may want a photographic challenge that your current kit just can't answer. E.g., macros, low light, fast action, flying birds, etc. Then, and only then, should one consider a specific upgrade. If you can't say exactly how a particular piece of equipment will improve your shooting, and quantify how important that change is, stay with your current gear and build your creative skills. Or, just keep doing what you're doing if you like it. Don't be a gear 'ho' just to keep up with the Jones.
Funny how non of you’ve mentioned the art of photography, I’m only 35 but truly dont give flying shit what people think of my art, it’s mine and it’s a form of art, love your chanel and the two of you !
I don’t comment much on social media, because I usually don’t have the time nor concern. This was a great video. This problem you are addressing is global and in many genres. You see it more in your community because that is your passion. While I don’t always agree with your views I appreciate you taking the time to express yourself and informing others. So as the song says you can’t please every, so you gotta please yourself. So follow your heart and your passion and keep being you.
Y'all have an amazing channel! There will always be people in life who want to drag you down. On the other hand, there will also be an exponential amount more who want to see you succeed! I've personally learned a ton from this channel! Thanks for sharing! This fellow Texan is very grateful! :)
When someone asks for a good wildlife lens and are saying "I really want to get into more wildlife shots".
Then people suggest 500/600 f4s because only real photographers use those and anything variable f5-6.3 is trash. Ya need that separate background bokah!
The response above just turns my stomach. Who has money for those lenses when they are beginning? Even if your an x year pro, 12k lenses are expensive..
I make it my business never to drink from a coffee mug that I can't jump over
I was about to offer the same thought. Maybe Chelsea had a sleepless night.
LMAOOO that's a good one, i am glad i wasn't the only one obsessing over the size of that mug.
You guys rock. Cute dog lol. This is great content. Thank you for providing such a comprehensive breakdown of bad habits and pitfalls alongside with plenty of actionable alternatives. I learned a lot and this is such a positive influence for me on my photography journey, and surely many others!
Just when I thought I couldn’t like you more I stumble upon this video. Well done! Reminded me of a time in 1980’s when I was so embarrassed winning 4 of 5 awards in a photo contest a friend told me beforehand so I skipped the ceremony …..I intimidated myself terrified of recognition! Thanks again and wish you the success you deserve, you’re both so talented.
8:30 - Well-balanced in both creativity and technology... you forgot that I'm also very humble. 😎
You think photographers are bad? Take a picture of the way you (or anyone) put on some CPU thermal paste and wait for the comments to roll on in.
It is so bad that big named tech channels have video after video of the best ways to do it with tests to back them up - just to get more hate. Haha
I can totally relate, I review tools and every saw review video I've done, there's a bunch of safety Nazis reminding me of how unsafe my handling is... Ugghh!
I prefer the thermal paste application from the guy from the Verge
Nevertheless I think people arguing if you should get an Intel or AMD CPU usually are way worse
Peter Brockie haha thats true
This is very true indeed. It's not even just thermal paste, it's anything in the pc building community.
First i thank you for an amazing video, really made me think a lot, and at around 16:20 you Chelsea absolutely nailed it. With the talk about tech people coming into photography looking for some sort of measurement and rules and such. It is exactly what i am struggling with, to leave the tech-thinking (like cad, programming, electronics and so on) and try and be truly creative without so much measurement. To achieve ability to make pictures that can convey a feeling, a story or something like that is what i am trying to accomplish on my photographic journey. So, again, a huge thank you! Best regards Magnus
You guys are awesome, you always cover the most pertinent subjects. Great work and please keep doing what you are doing 👍👏👏👏
Tony's hair is awesome. Any criticism of it is just plain HOGWASH.
woow, no need for that kind of language there.
@@MrWarezy what would you suggest? Porcine Shampoo?
Tony's 'hair' is brushed Aluminium.
This is a very important video
I personally loved this episode! I love the flow and the conversation between you two.
Thank you creating and sharing this video! It is first time a photography related video gets added to my human relation playlist.
Keep up the good work!
and this is why i love you guys!
Well, at least Moose did it in person.
Your good-natured attitude toward online vitriol, and support for each other, are lessons to all of us who have had to endure irrational commentary and personal attacks, while still trying to persevere and be positive in the digital space. Thank you both.
Thank you for doing these videos. They are very well done and quite informative... Well done.
"What about a gun butt.. What about a butt gun" lol chellsy's hilarious. I love her personality
So you are the Tony Northrup of NT and Win2000 etc... books! I really don't know why I never put the two together! Well hello! Loved your books back in the day. Do you still dable or is it all about photography now?
I'm our IT guy and I do most of our website programming, but that's about it. I'll say I definitely couldn't have gotten our live streaming studios working without my IT background... That's one of the most complex things I've ever designed.
@@TonyAndChelsea Windows can suck a motherboarding chipset.
This post was made by Linux gang 💪🏽🔥💯
@@josecolon8143 Just memeing bro, I've never even touched a Linux machine in my life.
You guys have some really good points in here. Hope some of the toxic types will read and think about their behavior. Though I suppose the one thing that will never change is the toxic trolling that occurs online. What it all boils down to is as need to feel superior through putting others down.
C&T, I am brand new to the craft and find your work helpful and informative. Keep up the great work!!!
"... Because your just straight up evil"
Chelsea: "That's true"
😂😂😂😂😂😂
"you're" ....:-) There, I feel better.
The toxic reaction is not related to photography. It is gear, which is a different hobby and seems to dominate the conversation. People get emotionally involved in the products that they identify with. You do not get that in photography focused community where the image is king and little interest in hardware.
I see the same tribalism in politics, and the very worst is the extreme division into thousands of identity political faction, where each hates all the others. I am an American who has lived outside the US and have traveled to 91 countries and no place is as toxic as inside the US. Try getting on a forum that discusses politics or social justice or conspiracy theories. It is such a relief to leave again every time I visit back to the US. I talk to other expats and the same thing observation is reported.
I have been shooting film and then digital for 55 years and photography or particularly equipment fights just did not get toxic until very recently. I was in the music recording industry for decades and it was both gear oriented and art of music and the toxicity was never a problem, other engineers or producers, writers etc were so supportive of each other.
Look at car forums, it is not about driving but hardware and they get very personal also.
Generally, the toxicity is centered around inanimate objects that people personalize. I am a member of a photo club in my adopted home city and everyone has different equipment but it seems that the focus of the discussion is images and little hostility. The fact is that it is a hobby that exists for the majority in isolation, in their home on a computer. Going out on a group shoot or to a gallery exhibition never erupts into hostility that happens daily on social media.
I'd say this is very true. I have several hobbies that I have joined forums on, and in my opinion the more hardware something is oriented the more toxic/hostile/critical it is.
Here's some very supportive forums that I've liked and either never left or rarely saw nasty comments.
Dance jazz/swing family
Mandolin
Violin
Drawing/writing/sketching
Fountain pen
Unicycling
Running
Here are forums I've noticed that are often extremely hostile, and that I've joined and then left or not bothered to read.
Photography
Bicycling
Motorcycles
Photography is bad but the bicycle surprised me because I assume anybody who rides such an elegant machine would be chill, and my bicycle club is also chill, but the online bicycle forum is extremely hostile to anything "not a bike" such as an eScooter.
Agreed! It’s the gear obsessed community that is the worst
A great video. Your tips can easily apply to areas other than photography. Very educational and pragmatic.
I'd like to say that I watch you guys just to make me feel better. Okay yes the information you provide is great and all that but the good feeling you guys generate is infectious and I'm almost always in a better mood after watching you guys no matter what the content is. So thank you for being you. 😀👍
Thanks for making this podcast. I’ve only been really into photography for a few years now but I’ve been hesitant to get involved in the community because of the general animosity. As an introvert, it’s really difficult to be enthusiastic about finding other photographers to be friends with. Maybe I’ll stop looking at the online community and get to know people in person!
Join a photo club. There used to be lots more photo clubs but sadly they are disappearing.
martinS S I’ve noticed that. Not many clubs around me but I have thought about looking into them!
@@manilamartin1001 so true and that is because of the all knowing attitudes that a lot of photogs have. I know that was the reason why the one local club I was involved in fizzled out. Half of the group felt that you needed a pro body and lenses to be part of the group and they got bashing the others who had entry level bodies or kit lenses. Plus they went with a annual fee of $400. It was sad and now some of those jerks are filtering into a couple of the last remaining groups in my area. Hopefully we don't have a repeat!
Matt don't give up find an online space you are comfortable in or as others have suggested try and find a camera club or photography buddy you can shoot with. A buddy really helps for example when doing night shoots.
There are haters online as keyboard warriors abound. Everyone learns differently understand what works best for you.
For me l try and learn the technical side through reading books, mags and going online to certain web sites. Knowledgeable and friendly people do exist and they will share with you and offer help.
Then after that l go out and shoot. That's how you learn and improve your photography. Your mistakes are learnings not disasters.
Best advice l ever got was to set yourself mini projects to do and get out and photograph. For example one weekend take macro shots the next portraits or try using a flash or only a single lens. Enjoy and good luck.
some people just thumbs you down, say negative things or leave a negative comment......without any reason........they themselve dont know why they are doing it.........it started may be as fun but then it gets developed as a habbit without logic!
Those are called trolls. Lol
Great video! I’m glad someone talks about this issue. In my case, being a biologist and becoming a nature photographer has been pretty difficult when I meet other photographers. Thanks Tony and Chelsea, love your content and ethics!
Thanks Tony and Chelsea, this is an outstanding contribution to social media etiquette. Should be compulsory viewing for all forums!
The way that Tony's laptop is sitting on the table has made me very uncomfortable.
I block them, I have blocked hundreds of people and find the conversation becomes more civil and often on other boards that I read.
Me too.
I like you guys covering this topic, different perspective from your standard format. You guys are good people, keep up the great work.
You guys are smart and insightful and explain many things well. I’m learning quite a bit from your tutorial style videos. These types of videos are fun, too.
Agree with most of what you say BUT when you have one million plus followers there WILL BE a bunch of nuts (ie the 80/20 rule).
@D-MMA well if 20% of 1 million are toxic, and they create 80% of the noise, then you have a very large spillage on your hands 😓
this comment brought a scene from Wreck-it Ralph movie to mind: "Assorted candy (fans)...with nuts (fans)" in the Sugar Rush game :D. It is like this everywhere, you get some candy and you get some nuts...
@@blazeking1211 You are the problem.. Bring Trump into a photography podcast just goes to show you are a fight baiting Dem..
@@blazeking1211 Never did I try... LMBO.. You got yourself with your own stupid comment!!
If you think this is bad, try working in Open Source Software Development...
or IRS, I used too, everyone hates you.
@@MsCaptainMike oh, yeah, I can only imagine. I was trying to get back near home and just applied for a job with the IRS and it started. I can imagine you got blamed for everything.
Totally, coders in general. All really emotionally connected to their work, critical of other people's work bit not open to criticism. Always, always never liking other people's code. Never as super awesome as they think they are, really fragile egos. Sigh.
XD, or try working in Southern Africa with sub IQ 70 locals. They can hate, but not think.
@@fotofillholland LOL Every developer think everyone elses code or coding style is terrible. When I was younger I was guilty of this until I realized it was happening to me everytime I got contracted to fill a expertise gap at different firms. Every subjective field has many who subjectively feel they are right. All we can do is check ourselves, and our peers.
You guys are great !! Keep up the great content ! There is a lot more people that love you than people that don't, that's for sure !!
Your videos are always educational and very satisfying to watch and listen to! Keep up the good work! :)
I sure hope the "Fro" watches this
Richard Freebairn 😂😂😂 preach! 🙏🏻
Someone got a rapid critique and didn't like it even though the Fro tells you not to take offense. j/k j/k hahahaha
Fro FTW. He is one of the few on CZcams who actually tests gear on actual shoots
For all the "REAL PHOTOGRAPHERS", ask them to show their work. Things stop quickly.
That is really meaningless and the wrong mindset. Here is why, Joel Grimes is colorblind and he admits he doesn't know the lingo and could care less. He doesn't care if his color and contrast is off from what others think it should be. Likewise, Joe Buissink, some of his best work is out of focus... and he is a celebrity wedding photog. So , one can easily see where the toxicity comes from... photogs who think and believe wholeheartedly that to be a "real photographer" you have to have spot on tack sharp images, color perfect, the right amount of DOF, the lighting spot on and use the latest and greatest top end body as well as fast glass.
I could show you my work and you'd laugh calling me a picture taker when I showed you a close up detail shot of an embellishment for one of my fashion designs, which is what PAYING customers what to see buying garments online. But I bet you never try on clothes before you buy them.
Sadly, here's another point you're overlooking. Most of the guys with your way of thinking and beliefs wish to call themselves "an artist" right? Well that would mean that you are a master of your craft, which is photography, which I'm sure you also wish to refer to yourself (by your comment) as a "pro" or a "professional"... right? Well, in that case, that would mean that if you are here in the U.S. that you are a "for profit" photographer and that you are a registered and licensed business withing your state as well as paying taxes on the photography services you provide, not engaging in tax evasion by not reporting it or taking cash... AND you are making enough capital that you are not engaging in TF work with models as a means to exploit them for self promotion, then turning around to play show and tell on social media sites to say "Look at me, look at me, look what I can do! I'm a real photographer! An artist and a professional!" Right? LOL
It can be useful against many types of troll. I have a friend of a friend who went out and bought a D850. At the time I was using a D300. He picked my photos apart because they didn't have the resolution of their camera nor the native dynamic range etc etc etc. I asked to see his work, after 5 minutes going back and forth he admitted he didn't know how to use his kit properly and had nothing to show me... I give them a wide berth now.
@@danagrey3534 I get the feeling you completely over analysed the OP comment. He didn't claim to be a professional or artist. He wasn't having a go at real photographers. The OP was making fun of the entire concept of the 'real photographer' who is more interested in tearing down other people's work than focusing on their own photography. Therefore, if you ask them to show you their work as they heavily criticise you then the conversation stops because they have no work to show you.
@@danagrey3534 The fact you got defensive proved his point.
@@NGameReviews Defensive? Now that is laughable. All of you con artist wanna-be professional hobbyist photogs are all the same. Kind of like the Democratic party. You can't see image for the camera body! (FFS) LOL Let me show you just what a narcissist wanna-be hobbyist is and why our industry is ruined because of trolls like you.
Let's start with the basics..."Taxpayers must report on their tax return the income earned from hobbies. The rules for how to report the income and expenses depend on whether the activity is a hobby or a business. " Further, it is not you or anyone else who decided whether they are a pro or not. It's meeting these 9 factors and prove to the IRS you are a business and not a HOBBYIST, which the rule of thumb is that you have to additionally make a profit 2 out of 5 years.
I'm not done there! Let's expose the masses of CON ARTISTS. "A person or business with a fixed place of business in Ohio from which taxable sales are made. Vendors must have one license for each fixed place of business. License is issued by the County Auditor." Its a mere $25. Plus you need to register with the Secretary of State. We are not talking copyrights yet and we are not even to pushing the shutter button ding dong! Ohio Rev. Code § 1345.02(G).“the failure of a supplier to obtain or maintain any registration, license, bond, or insurance required by state law or local ordinance for the supplier to engage in the supplier’s trade or profession is an unfair or deceptive act or practice.” Oh I bet you are one to say photogs are not "suppliers" right? Ohio Rev. Code § 1345.01(C) defines a supplier as “a seller, lessor, assignor, franchisor, or other person engaged in the business of effecting or soliciting consumer transactions, whether or not the person deals directly with the consumer.” “The terms ‘effecting’ and ‘soliciting’ are not defined by the statute, so [courts] give the terms their plain and ordinary meanings. ‘Effect’ is defined as to bring about; to make happen. . . .’ ‘Solicitation’ is defined as ‘the act or an instance of requesting or seeking to obtain something; a request or petition.' The definition of “supplier” is very broad and likely covers many businesses that do not realize they are subject to the Act.
Similarly, Ohio Rev. Code § 1345.03(A) prohibits suppliers from committing “an unconscionable act or practice in connection with a consumer transaction.” Unconscionable acts are those that “relate to a supplier manipulating a consumer’s understanding of the nature of the transaction at issue.” Ohio Rev. Code § 1345.03(B)(1) "Whether the supplier has knowingly taken advantage of the inability of the consumer reasonably to protect the consumer's interests because of the consumer's physical or mental infirmities, ignorance, illiteracy, or inability to understand the language of an agreement;" Reread that last part ding dong! Make sure you pay special attention to this one... Ohio Rev. Code § 1345.03(B)(5) "Whether the supplier required the consumer to enter into a consumer transaction on terms the supplier knew were substantially one-sided in favor of the supplier;
" So there goes all of you who think you are a CREATOR ALL of the time, rip people off with take tons of shots, never letting models/client see any unedited image, editing them your way, bending them over, by giving them less quality images and few than they paid for and plaster advertising marks all over them so you can go play Show & Tell in social media photography groups or use to MARKET your unlicensed business! Right? Ohio Rev. Code § 1345.03(B)(6) "Whether the supplier knowingly made a misleading statement of opinion on which the consumer was likely to rely to the consumer's detriment;"
Whoa! What detriment? Um, how about calling yourself a "pro" when you are an unregistered, unlicensed hobbyist who is engaging in tax evasion for starters and then exploiting clients and model with copyrights? Ohio Rev. Code § 1345.09(A) "Where the violation was an act prohibited by section 1345.02, 1345.03, or 1345.031 of the Revised Code, the consumer may, in an individual action, rescind the transaction or recover the consumer's actual economic damages plus an amount not exceeding five thousand dollars in noneconomic damages." Ohio Rev. Code § 1345.09 (B) "Where the violation was an act or practice declared to be deceptive or unconscionable by rule adopted under division (B)(2) of section 1345.05 of the Revised Code before the consumer transaction on which the action is based, or an act or practice determined by a court of this state to violate section 1345.02, 1345.03, or 1345.031 of the Revised Code and committed after the decision containing the determination has been made available for public inspection under division (A)(3) of section 1345.05 of the Revised Code, the consumer may rescind the transaction or recover, but not in a class action, three times the amount of the consumer's actual economic damages or two hundred dollars, whichever is greater, plus an amount not exceeding five thousand dollars in noneconomic damages or recover damages or other appropriate relief in a class action under Civil Rule 23, as amended."
Oh, but you are in Ohio and I'm in another state! Yeah keep thinking that! Maybe you and the masses better Google what the "Uniform Code is! LOL Language may differ state tot state, but the INTENT is the same and I haven't even mention the federal level!
I really really like this living room chat type of video ! I also notice that both of your real personalities come thru in this type video ! Hope you make more videos like this .
The internet had made most communities and fandoms toxic. Rather sad when those of us around at the beginning of the internet saw all the possibilities of being able to communicate with like-minded people around the world that they’d most likely never have met otherwise. On the contrary the internet has seemed to exacerbate the worst aspects of some people’s personality.