I love both of these influencers as a woman recovering from anorexia. John is a sweetheart whose emphasis on personal health and self improvement is inspiring to the core. Abbey’s preaching about self love and forgiving yourself is wholesome and amazing to watch. I think that things get divided a lot, but that you can like two influencers without the same exact views. To me, both of these individuals are inspiring and helpful in their own ways.
I really appreciate Abbey and what she does. Abbey gives advice for people who have struggled with their relationship with food and disordered eating. As a person who fits this category her content is amazing. Her advice probably won’t resonate with you if you don’t fit that. For example I think Greg works super well if you haven’t struggled with eating disorders and are trying to lose weight. It probably works great. They’re just two different things for different audiences. It slightly annoys me people think only one or the other is right or wrong. There is space for both. Love this video.
I have to disagree that his advice is for people who haven't struggled with disordered eating. its just his advice is for Binge eaters, while Abby's advice is for Anorexic, Orthorexic etc people. those disorders are kind of on the opposite side of the spectrum so they clash.
@@Forgefaerie Yes, this is it exactly. They both talk to people with different backgrounds in eating (disorders) and that clashes. For some people watching calories might be unhealthy and for others it might be helpful.
I genuinely do not and cannot understand why so many people dislike Abby in this community. Abby's content led me to OtB and I feel like their content works together perfectly. It's all about being intuitive and loving yourself enough to treat your body well. They have both provided me with so much evidence and enthusiasm for treating myself correctly instead of obsessing over being thin to the point of self harm. Abby and John have completely changed the way that I think about body positivity, in the best way. I seriously can't understand why so many people don't love Abby in this community and watching the comments on the stream while he watched her video made me not want to be a part of it.
when you're in the public eye, you can't please everyone. it's sad that these people who are trying their best to educate and empower get so much hate.
As someone who watches both of you I really appreciate this video. I think Abbey sometimes gets a lot of hate because they feel she comes off pretentious. Yet the same people hail Greg Doucette, who is never willing to accept anyone else's opnion, as their hero. Anyways loved the civil discourse here
My theory why some people dont like her because she comes off as a Karan yet she is far far far from it. Also she speaks to people who struggle with eating disorders and she herself had anorexia so I think the majority of people cant relate to having an eating disorder. Idk She’s a real one tho she speaks up for people and calls stuff out. An awesome ally.
@@izzielazickas exactly. I am recovering from anorexia and it’s very clear people don’t understand that perspective when i read these comments and think one size fits all approaches to nutrition are a thing. It’s really invalidating to people who are helped by an anorexia/orthorexia informed approach to teaching nutrition
So true but also I’m loling bc I really love Abbey & Greg. I just combine their advice when I apply it to my diet and it works great for me! It’s just funny bc those two butt heads sure sure.
Really loved her explanation of intuitive eating. Coming from someone diagnosed with binge eating disorder, working with my therapist with intuitive eating really really helped me gain awareness of my triggers and eventually get it under control. And like she said it’s not always about hunger. Many times it’s asking questions, why do I want to eat now? How will I feel afterwards? What does my body need right now?(eating junk or eating something with fiber to help me pass), do I genuinely want an extra slice of cake?(sometimes I do sometimes I don’t. Many times overeating for me is like being in a trance rather than actually being hungry/craving so asking the question is not restricting it’s bringing myself back to home base) Anyways, that’s my experience. I’d say get medical help if you can and if not just asking yourself a question before eating to check in with yourself can go a long way. Good luck!
I think there’s room for both of their viewpoints - I think John is totally right about obesity but I think Abbey is right when it comes to people who are not morbidly obese.
Same! They often both make very similar points just they say it in a different way. They don’t always 100% agree but I don’t necessarily 100% agree with either of them as well.
Its nice to actually see these "conflicts" that occur on CZcams to have some resolution. It feels less like hopping around to different sides and is such a healthy, mature thing that I really don't see a lot on social media. I've really only seen it on this channel and while I don't agree with what everyone says at every point in the video, I do think that hearing both sides concurrently forms a more complete picture. This video and so many of the other interviews/conversations are so valuable to the viewers.
I'll admit, my view of Abbey was that she is someone who likes to twist people's words and control the narrative. I'm surprised that she agreed to have a live conversation with John, even though she knows he's critical of her views. This was nice.
Its very clear what she said did not have any intent on insulting him. She didn't know that he has an IEP and was so sensitive about that choice of words that she used. So of course she would apologize. I don't think she's ill willed.
As a registered dietitian I really love how Abbey tries to educate and provide suggestions in her videos. It’s refreshing having someone on the internet spread evidence based knowledge, not BS. I was surprised when I found such negativity about her on other channels. Loved this convo, wish we had more of these collaborations!
@@amysollers6505 I can understand that. I do however think the internet is flooded with insane diets and unsustainable quick fix solutions, so it’s nice to see someone who is sensitive to people who have struggled with an ED. But to base every single recommendation off of it will trigger someone or feed into an ED, I can see how that may be frustrating.
@@jessical8426 I see where you’re coming from and personally, I think Abbey‘s platform can be immensely helpful for people with a past or active restrictive ED. I appreciate her evidence-driven approach tremendously. The one thing I am critical of is kind of in line with how your phrased your comment, actually. She is focused on restrictive (!) EDs exclusively, when in reality, BED is the most prevalent one. Overeating, emotional eating, binge eating are real, they’re ruining people’s lives, and excluding them from the ED realm by using language in this way, is exclusionary and unhelpful towards people that suffer from it. I realize that that’s not done on purpose, but I do think this language use needs reflection and work. Claiming strategy X would help you in healing from your ED is de facto incorrect when she’s really only referring to one of two kinds of EDs. Do you see where I’m coming from?
@@Iwasjustwondering89 yes I hear you. I don’t work with people who have ED, or disordered eating habits, so I appreciate how you explained this. I do think Abbey is sensitive to more than just restrictive eating, as many times I hear her talk about the emotional connection to food which I think can tie into the umbrella of BED. But hearing her use terms like orthorexia and restrictive eating a lot, I can see how it may seem like she’s just focusing on that side of ED. Hope I didn’t mess up too bad in my response lol
Ngl, I acc really appreciate Abbey and her CZcams presence. John moreso caters to individuals who haven’t struggled on the extreme ends of disordered eating (mentally) and suffering eating disorders so it would make sense for the clash. I personally believe Abbey comes across as understanding food and body image issues being multifaceted and how much of a slippery slope it is when losing weight. Abbey has healed and normalised a lot of people’s relationships with food, including myself. I think when she states things like ‘omg eat a chocolate’ or something is not twisting the narrative, but actually a breath of fresh air by normalising a balanced diet and getting rid of constant Orthorexia projected by the fitness community.
I think so too. Maybe it's because she so carefully chooses her words? Don't know. I find it sad some people have gotten that idea about her, as I think she has a lot of great knowledge to share and she adapts her view based on newly available information / studies.
She's been through a lot through the years. She's not a new CZcamsr either. She has like ten years of content. I feel like she gets it. She started making a joke about her being "Switzerland" because she's not comfortable going "all in" on one school of thought. She's spoken about biodiversity before too. Intuitive Eating is exciting for a person like her so it makes sense she's incorporating it all so much. But IE has it's place and I hope Abbey comes out of all this understanding how it could be.
I’m so glad you are having a conversation! There is too much building walls, gate keeping and picking at each other or simply misunderstanding going on online, and talking to each other is the only solution to that in my opinion. More so, because I genuinely think both of you try to help people in your own way, I think many viewers forget that 1. You have different approaches and 2. Those aim at Different people with different backstories.
Not gonna lie I couldn’t help but laugh when Abbey brought up Freelee. Reminded me of myself at 15, neck deep in my eating disorder, trying to convince my parents that I should just only eat carbs and I’ll be healthy 🥴
Shoutout to the teenage "mom i can only eat bananas the crazy lady said so" freeleee phase. Following creators like OtB is so much better for my mental health!
I have definitely experienced thin privilege first hand, and it wasn’t until I gained weight as an adult that I realized what I had really been experiencing. Most of being overweight was from incredibly debilitating pregnancies, serious hormonal imbalances from what I was told was the healthiest diet, and then right as things were turning around after my final pregnancy, the complications from those pregnancies hit me in the form of four herniated discs. My life will never be the same no matter what. I grew up really thin and conventionally pretty. I just thought most people were really nice. People seemed to care a lot about what I had to say, people noticed me pretty much wherever I went and whatever I was doing. People would hold more doors for me or offer to help me more often. I thought that was normal. Then, after having my first child, my body was broken and no amount of fitness and eating right (especially a caloric deficit) would make me drop a single pound. Then that was when I realized I lived in a different world. I remember going home crying one day and telling my husband “I’m INVISIBLE now”. People just looked right through me. I’d go places with my fit husband and people would look back and forth between us, put their heads down and raise their eyebrows. My husband had many of his guy friends tell him privately it must be so hard to have a fat wife. That if their wives looked like that after having their baby they probably wouldn’t stay with them. People started rumors that I was pregnant again. I’d go on crazy intense hikes and do super intense workouts, I’d lift really heavy things like it was no big deal, and everyone would always look surprised. I felt trapped inside my body and that it had betrayed me. I was nobody all the sudden. I went to a doctor to find out what was wrong and get my hormones tested. He didn’t think I needed to and told me that I wasn’t being honest with myself about what I was eating, how much, and how much exercise I was really doing (I was tracking everything perfectly), because weight loss was calories in and calories out; that simple. It was devastating to not even be taken seriously. For the record, I’m not saying, oh my life is so much harder than others’ because of this (there is a lot of seriously MESSED UP sh*t that has happened in my life, separate from these things) but I am grateful I learned because I used to really judge people who were overweight when I was growing up, and I used to judge postpartum moms before I had kids.
As a woman I can say skinny/pretty privilege is a real thing.. I’ve been on both sides of the fence and it is very much real, even when it comes to employment opportunities, being treated better or just being treated as human.
@@rebeccaspratling2865 some people work hard to look that way and others don’t. I think the point is people shouldn’t be devalued asked on looks. Privilege in this context is a neutral term, it refers to how someone with a qualifying factor is treated in relation to someone who doesn’t.
@Jazzy Bebe it can be negative and the way I was using it is negative, just because u worked hard to LOOK good, u shouldn’t get any position that has nothing to do with your looks, that’s what I mean
I think both of them are genuinely good people. I don't agree with everything they say, but, I know they have good intentions. I read comments about Abbey Sharp being elitist and narcissistic. That's so far from the truth. I frequent her channel and she seems genuinely kind and empathetic. As someone with a similar background (anorexia/orthorexia), I relate with her content. If you frequent her channel, you'd notice she's extremely cautious with her words. Yet she's still a target for haters. I mean, if you're a public figure, you can't win. If you are obese and trying to lose weight + gain muscle, then you probably should be watching O2B instead. They each target different audiences, is all.
This was sooooo goood, this side of abbey is refreshing and I hope she will be in this type of conversations with others CZcamsrs like Greg ... I think all of this CZcamsrs have so much in common and could be a united front to help people .... they are powerful
Proud breaker of the binge restrict cycle here! Jordan shrinks is the one who brought it to my attention and helped me break it but I'm glad Abbey talked about it here
Honestly, I understand a little more about intuitive eating after this. I do think people use it as an excuse term to eat whatever they want sometimes. And I do not feel like I could "intuitively" like eat at this stage. I have over 100lbs to lose. And I do think there are things I need to completely overall about my diet to reach my goals. Like many terms, the way it's used can be helpful to some and just an excuse to continue bad behaviors for others. And intuitive eating sounds like "gateway drug" to me at this stage.
I completely agree as well. I tried intuitive eating for a while, and it didn’t work for me. But now that I’m halfway through my weight loss journey, and have been slowly, slowly overhauling my diet and way of eating, I’ve been able to healthily add in some intuitive eating. I think in the end, it really really depends on the person. And a balance of things is ideal.
@Jazzy Bebe Also, underweight people with eating disorders may need to feel the encouragement they can 'eat more' and not get out of control. I think a lot of it depends on where you are starting with your relationship with food.
I'm within normal weight range but I'd like to lose a couple of kilos and be more fit. Intuitive eating for me was breaking the "you need to finish your plate at a restaurant at all cost because you paid for it" thinking but it didn't mean "have a whole cake at night because you feel like it right now". I didn't really have a name for the diet I was striving towards before I came across Abbey's channel and I nutrition was part of my uni education so it wasn't the hardcore scientific facts that I was missing. For me it has always been easy to overeat because of some stupid rules like "finish your plate", "don't throw half of the ice cream away because you paid for it" and intuitive eating is helping me prevent those.
Yes intuition eating can be a misleading term. Because people with disordered eating need to LEARN how to properly listen to their body and they do need education on making specific choices. The goal is intuitive eating..but the path and process is not.
So I’m a blk woman who was obese, and now I’m down to a healthy weight, and I have to say I don’t like the body positive movement because I feel like it can make u get comfortable being at an unhealthy weight and it’s getting out of hand. BUT I understand why they don’t like ppl who aren’t obese using the body positive phrase when all u have is a couple of rolls, probably everyone has something on their body they are self conscious about, but that’s not why the movement started, it started for a specific group and now it’s being hijacked by a group that doesn’t/can’t relate to the reason the movement started. I don’t think anyone CANT complain or me personally I could care less if u use the phrase or not but I’m not going to act like I don’t get it, even if I don’t fully agree...
The double standard of the "body positivity" thing is that "oh its ok you're beautiful as you are", but the moment you decide "hey, I want to lose weight because it's a sign of my metabolism not being right and it's going to shorten my life" they start shaming you. Apparently you're only OK if you follow their dogma. It's as you say, it's hijacked by people with their own agenda. When I think of body positivity, I think of people not being mocked by their obesity, a missing leg, excema, vitiligo etc, that's not what the social justice idelogues have co-opted the body positivity movement to include. I lost about 60 lbs after getting out of a long and unhealthy relationship, I'm in better shape than ever by just cutting carbs. Noone commented on me being obese, but now when I'm at 10% bf they say I look too thin and need to eat more. (Yet having put on 10kg of muscle on an already built frame). Had I starved myself then they might have a point, but I'm not, and they know it. When did low bf become synonymous with starvation and not nice (as opposed to low bf low muscle), yet obesity is "health at every size" and "beautiful"?
@@TheEightfoldPath_ I get the “too thin”, and”don’t lose any more weight” comments too and it’s so annoying, ... I think ppl just want to be made to feel good everyday all day, which it’s their choice but I don’t like the shaming ppl who don’t want to be fat, AND it’s nothing wrong with wanting to lose weight for vanity reason! Ppl always have to say it’s all health and yes it is BUT I feel like I LOOK better smaller and if I want to lose weight to LOOK BETTER there’s nothing wrong with that either
Agree. I get why some people don't like it when others use the phrase, because "that's not what the movement was for", but I also think that outrage is pointless, because you can't gatekeep the entire internet, and the phrase "body positivity" is everywhere... nobody's going to stop that many people from using it. It's an unwinnable war, so what's the point in fighting it? Just to be mad at the entire world, I guess? 🤷♀️
@@ninaasf-ck Giving up is a mentality determined for failure. You don't have to fight it, just to acknowledge that the original movement has been coopted and then you just realize all these "gruops" are just tribalism anyways. Who the fuck cares if you identify as "body positive" anyways? Actions speak louder than words, and the people doing the action usually don't care about labeling themselves anyways. Doing so is virtue signaling for the weak.
Maybe I never over thought the body positive part of her channel, but she helped me lose weight. I had to get to a point where I felt empowered and comfortable with eating before I could really start following my intuition in a healthy way. On top of that, I wanted to do right by my body because I was starting to love it. As John would say, eating good food and exercising will typically lead to weight loss and that’s what happened. I associate a lot of that with Abbey, though, because of the healing I had to do. I also love and appreciate what John has to say and I’ve learned a ton from him. There’s definitely an audience in between the two and it was great to hear this discussion. I hate feeling like I have to pick between people I respect so much
Just because you don't agree with a persons opinion on a particular topic doesn't mean he or she is a bad person or cannot provide valuable information on other topics.
I found out about Abbey Sharp from Greg Doucette's videos, lol. She actually means well though, and you can tell she genuinely cares. TBH I also stopped subscribing to Greg Doucette after a series of nonsense videos where him, then his girlfriend unnecessarily criticized and bullied the heck out of Stephanie Buttermore. It was super not cool, lost a lot of respect for him.
@@kevinhedman2314 I’m genuinely curious why everyone should watch all of Greg’s content to get his message. I’ve seen this comment in response to any critique he has ever gotten. Does he just say crazy shit for clicks and then explains things better after five minutes? Like what’s the deal? Why is he so misconstrued all the time?
I love Abbey. I think her target audience is people with restrictive eating backgrounds and disordered eating . And she is right on a lot about that. I also love O2B because I empathize a lot of with him as I have been fat in the past. Also I like coach Greg as well but his advice I feel is tailored more for people who already have a decent relationship with food. Also his diet is pretty low fat generally (anabolic diet) and as someone with insulin resistant it’s not ideal for me. I feel like O2B is the true moderate and that’s why I’m here.
One hundred percent. The majority of Abbey's content is aimed at people with eating disorders. She was actually really helpful to me when I was in recovery from anorexia.
Nancy Gonzalez if you have insulin resistance I HIGHLY recommend Tasting Positive also on CZcams. She brought her A1c down from 11 to 5.6 and also got off blood pressure medication and she eats bomb food that’s super tasty and healthy And also very affordable. Highly highly recommend.
@@Soleil5291 omg thank you for the recommendation I will check it out! Unfortunately for me my insulin resistance is not due to my diet tho it’s due to elevated cortisol levels from my job 😔. Nonetheless I’m going to check the channel thank you 💕
I'm considered overweight. But I didn't realize until I started talking to a dietitian that I had an eating disorder. I was under eating during the day and then it would make me really hungry at night and I would binge. I would regret it and then I would restrict. After that the cycle continued. I didn't realize how few calories I was eating because I was eating snacks frequently enough that my blood sugar would was pretty level. I would also have a normal dinner. But for my height, age and weight I was eating about 1/3 of my calories. My doctors kept telling me to loose weight. And I was constantly made to feel like I was eating too much when I was eating. I eventually realized because of my dietitian that I wasn't eating enough. Adding more calories to my diet didn't mean I gained any weight. I didn't loose any either, but I have health issues and take medication that create weight gain. But now I am no longer food obsessed, suffering and constantly judging myself for everything I eat. Abbey really helped me with that honestly, I would discuss what she says in her videos with my dietitian and it helped me so much. It's never black and white. People assume I eat too much because of my weight, but it's so much more complicated than that.
I am exactly the same minus the medication. When I stop binge eating I usually lose weight but I also eat healthy except for binges and I was doing this too. Restricting even mentally and bingeing at night.
Intuitive eating is possible if you eat real foods. If you eat frankenfoods like doritos, oreos, reeses, donuts, cheetos, etc, you are eating "foods" specifically engineered to break you natural satiety signals. The fact that eating one pint of Ben & Jerry's leaves you feeling like crap doesn't guarantee that you'll learn a lesson and avoid making the same mistake. In my experience as a binge eater and food addict, the result is quite the opposite - the following day I crave sugar again and since I ate a whole pint of ice cream the day before, I've built up my tolerance and now I can eat even more junk on top of one pint of ice cream. When I started bingeing it would only escalate more and more. So no, I still don't believe intuitive eating is for everybody
I'm with you on this one. If I eat a single piece of candy, I need another. The more I eat the more I want. One example is I was at work and a co-worker had a candy bowl. Peanut butter cups, snickers...all the bite size good stuff. I ate one piece, then another and by the end of the day, that bowl was empty. I freaked out. I had to go buy more to replace it and I actually dug through my garbage can and took out every wrapper counting them. I got the nutritional info for each one and added it up. That single day was just over 4000 calories, 99g Saturated fat and 414 g sugar. 414 thats the equivalent of just over 100 teaspoons of sugar. The sad thing is I would have eaten more had there been more in the bowl. It goes beyond not healthy, the food industry has made sure its addictive. When I'm fasting I get zero cravings so thats what I do!
@@BOOMBiggityBam I feel you. I've had similar experiences to that. It's such a slippery slope... I don't learn from one binge to not do it again. In my case it's actually "practice" that makes bingeing harder next time even easier, lol. I do fasting too. I also find carnivorish keto very helpful. High protein, high fat, virtually 0 carbs. For me this way of eating is a craving buster and makes fasting easier. I could take a tour of the Willy Wonka chocolate factory and not be tempted. Real satiety feels like a superpower
@th1smomentisfate It's true - if you are a food addict, you can overeat anything. Happens to me, too - real proteins and fats are the only foods I can have some semblance of a control with but even then it requires a strategy. I like eating big meals, too. For that reason I've found that what works for me is keto carnivorish OMAD. I just cook the meal I'm gonna eat and that's it. When I'm done with my food, if I want more I'd have to cook it, but I'm satisfied and cooking more food is not worth the effort. I've been doing this well over a year now and quite happy with this plan
Yes!!! Unfortunately, this is not addressed in the book by Evelyn Tribole. They say that people coming from an ED background may need to relearn hunger cues, but do not address anything about people who have been chronically overeating and let's be honest, no one is binging fresh vegetables.
13:33 that's a huge problem in the industry and a major pet peeveof mine. Same with personal trainer. I actually made a video about this. My mother has never worked out a day in her life, doesn't watch what she eats, and has never studied exercise or nutrition science and, if she wanted to, she could call herself a "nutritionist" AND a "personal trainer" and there would be no legal repercussions for her.
Wow. I LOVED that. You need to do more interactions with people. I'm about to go to her page and subscribe. (I've been subscribed to you for a couple of months now.)
I actually like abbey and thought that Greg was overly sensitive about her video on him- especially since he makes a lot of harsh videos on others as well. I like Greg too, and I do definitely realize Abbey has flaws, but overall I feel like she’s overly hated.
@@lucassidlauskassanches40 How can you type that without rationalising that Greg is no better? He scrutinised Stephanie Buttermore’s “all in” journey and insinuated that she has food problems and a negative image to her followers in contrast to when he reviewed Stephanie Joshie (NuttyFoodieFitness), gave a bias review who is one of the biggest fake-eaters too going, claimed that she can ‘consume’ thousand of calories and still maintain that degree of a physique because she has “good genetics” all because she promoted his cookbook. That guy contradicts himself considering he was the very first to call-out disordered eating and food challenges, yet is now endorsing his own mantra through this, which is very hypercritical and contradictory on his part. 🙃🙄
@@lucassidlauskassanches40 some people commenting more judgemental than both me mad Abby. Does nuttyfoodyfitness look like she is having food problems or has body image problems. She eats a lot on some days and exercises a lot. Eric the electric eats 15000 cals some days amd is jot fat because he rides a bike for 100’s of miles a week. Stephanie choose to starve then promote binge eating while being shredded then promoted going all in as a way to be at a healthy weight when I know fat too well it’s a bad way to do it so I spoke out. So what!!! Let her defend herself
I teach intuitive eating as a dietitian and rather than focusing on Calorie tracking I help my clients aim for balanced meals, allow cravings, and they track food in the beginning simply to see what they’re eating/ how they feel but not to put limits on calories and become rigid/obsessive. They are still making healthy changes to their quality of food, exercise, sleep and overall improving their health.
It took me weight loss surgery and struggling for 3 years to be able to learn how to intuitively eat. I had to train my body first to like veggies and more nutritious food, then find workouts that I enjoyed and I dieted for 3 years after surgery before trusting my body. For some people it’s literally baby steps until you have healed your body enough to trust it.
Food in general has gotten way more complex, way more calorie dense and way more processed. Roughly tracking calories and reading labels to try and lose weight while having cheat days helps in understanding the FOOD OF TODAY so u can survive all the grocery food choices and fast food out there and know how to eat enough to be satisfied while maintaining a healthy weight. BOTTOMLINE is tracking or estimating to lose weight THEN being less meticulous and more intuitive after having learned enough !!
I dunno. There is something very disingenuous about her, and I feel she purposely misleads her audience about other creators’ diets in order to have content to critique.
She's mostly very nice abt what people eat, she just gets more agitated when people are giving dangerous advice really. I like her reviews a lot, cause she shows people that usually deal with different stuff than I (like undereating problems or restrictive dieting)
I didn't find her misleading until she was pregnant this year. I think she relied heavily on her team while she was going to the doctors and they cut some corners on research.
@@ang5942 Yes, look up Greg Doucette. He made a few videos defending himself, and other CZcamsrs defended him as well. She chose old videos of his from 10 years ago, didn’t watch the entire videos of what she was critiquing, and contradicted her own advice through out.
We all have bodies. Just because a certain group of people STARTED the movement, doesn’t mean others can’t partake. Other groups participating in body positivity doesn’t negate or ostracize the originals...we all have bodies. We can all be body positive. Also, it’s not just about being in marginalized fat bodies. Amputees, disabled persons, those chronically ill, those with loose skin should be included more
I have stretch marks that I am unhappy about, and loose skin from losing a lot of weight, I am afraid to call myself body positive because what it has come to mean nowadays. It's only for obese woman, because I'm 110lbs. I dont fit in that category. No place for me. I would get so much back lash. I Just deal and b the best I can everyday. Body positive should b, being positive about ur body, amd loving urself enough to allow urself to b as healthy and as strong as possible. I Hide myself and my flaws. It's conflicting #no excuses
@@seriesjunkie90 she says she's privileged every 3 minutes of the day. She can't change the culture she grew up in. Until she's starving on the street she will never really know.
@@mairzydoats4879 yet she doesn't seem to want to change her behavior accordingly. In one of her recent videos she had a sponsor that sells those stupid ultra expensive teas that she constantly critiques others for. Hypocrisy at its finest
But if they didn’t there would be no $$$$$ in it! It’s pretty hard to sell “eat nutritious real foods, be physically active in any number of ways, stop making excuses, stop obsessing over yourself and/or hating yourself”
I don't like Abbey, or how she seems to be the type to twist narratives to her own convenience, but I commend her for actually apologizing. Better than a lot of youtubers. Makes me sad because I did use to like her content but she became so fake? This conversation didn't feel very genuine from her either, more to save face.
I actually found freellee too and I’m glad I wasn’t young and naive to fall for her dumb diet but it did remind me to increase my fruit intake (not all fruit tho) & I’m down 75 lbs bc of it :)
”Used to live in a larger body”? It’s called being fat. Fat. And being fat doesn’t make you a bad person in anyway, but you can’t make facts go away by changing the words.
he's a person living in a body. that body can change over time and in many ways. he was living his existence, in a body larger than his body is now. it's not incorrect or not a fact. you may view it as being overly sensitive or an inconvenience to go 'changing the words', but if not using that word around certain people means that they're feeling less hurt, shameful or any other negative feeling it's a pretty small trade off for somebody to have control of their dignity. it's a choice i make but i wouldn't ever want to force or aggressively change somebody into using certain vocabulary either.
I think what type of diets you’ve tried and how much you know about nutrition and about your self, makes a difference in what approach you should take. Iv been overweight my whole adult life (Im 26) and Iv only tried to lose weight a handful of times. Even though Iv been told allot about nutrition, macros etc, but there’s stuff I’m still learning.
7:12 she’s wrong, black women did NOT start the body positivity or fat acceptance movement. I take great offense to the notion that black women need it “more” than other women.
Scrolling through the comments and seeing a lot of people dislikes Abbey? Can someone explain why? For me I am struggling with severe bulimia and johns content especially when he talks about binge eating has been helpful with that while abbeys what I eat in a day reactions have been helpful in meals planning and how I think about it.
I'd like to see Abbey stop pushing Intuitive eating like it is the holy grail, especially without saying that it is great for some and not for others. Or that some people may need a lengthy transition process and can't just eat intuitively naturally.
What sorcery is it when you feel unwell after a pint of ice cream? Are there wizards who can actually make you feel like you had too much afterward? Can mere mortals find them? 😂
I don't think Abby is a bad person but she really does go out of her way to always say the woke thing, and it comes off as disingenuous. Did it really surprise her to hear that people who lose weight are often attacked for being fat phobic? Really? It never occured to her that some of the other people also get a ton of unwarranted hate comments? Her advice is probably great for a specific audience: people who struggle with eating disorders, and so have to be careful about introducing restrictions, since they will spiral into unhealthy extremes. I'll be honest, I've never experienced this so I'll defer. She knows a lot more about that than I do and seemingly has great advice for these people. Maybe she could add to her list of disclaimers that her advice really doesn't apply to people who wish to lose weight and struggle a lot more with constant cravings for junk, and need guidance and encouragement, but never spiral into over applying strict rules.
“I don’t think it’s my place to determine who intuitive eating is good for or not good for.” Yet preaches intuitive eating in all her videos and isn’t emphasizing that people should meet with a dietitian to find the best fit for them. Just one disclaimer isn’t good enough in a video when you’re discussing people’s health in my opinion. Intuitive eating was not helpful for me, it made me gain weight even though I was working with a dietitian. Edit to add: she does seem nice and genuine but I don’t think she really understands how to help most obese people.
I get annoyed with the thin privilege argument because as someone who has always been underweight! People have always judged me and strangers will talk about my weight or ask me what size I am or how much I eat. I can’t fit in normal store size clothes! My legs are too short for pants! So being thin doesn’t give me any privilege! It’s really annoying I can’t reach the told shelves at the store! How am I privilege for being thin?
I like how Abbey elaborated on the path to intuitive eating in this conversation. And I don't like how it's very much missing from her chanel. I watch basically all her videos, as I love food and I like everything about it lol. But it's almost as if she shows this true, full opinion on intuitive eating only in this conversation where she presumably has to find middle ground with someone from the other camp. On her channel however there is too much emphasis on fighting everything surrounding diet culture, even mindful calorie counting in regards to reaching body goals. I don't see how one can not be intuitive about their food (e.g. freestyle meals, don't stress if some day's worth of eating isn't ideal, don't punish themself because of food etc.) and yet to use "diet culture" attributes: purposely choosing the healthiest foods when objectively possible, unlearning to crave junk foods (which for some can also mean literally not buying and not looking at them ever again), counting calories to meet a specific body look. On the contrary to that intuitive eating is kind of dogmatic nowadays, like trademark or something...
@@natalie5334 yeah, we live in a society where nutrition is really obscured. Both in the sense that people don’t receive nutritional education, but also in the sense that foods are so heavily processed nowadays that calorically dense, nutrient sparse foods are often addicting and overly common in our diets. Intuitive eating gets talked about as the “natural” way to eat, but we are surrounded by unnatural foods. That being said, I do still think a balance is achievable.
I totally agree. I was just thinking today I miss the older content and the "vlog" style videos. I miss the old intro and sign off. Would love to hear another "look how buff I am...grrrr" 😂
I think Abbey does great and sends a good message when she makes her own videos. I can see that she would be helpful to people who struggle with their relationship with food. I do not think her reviews of what other people eat are good. She is overly critical. She uses terms like red flags or says she is concerned over absolutely nothing. She makes it seem as though every single meal needs to be perfectly balanced when she makes those types of videos but that really contradicts her over all message. I feel like she negates herself in these videos. She will call out on meal for not having enough protein even though the next meal the person eats might be packed with it. It just doesn’t make sense. I think that’s where she really pisses people off.
I think she needs to do better research. I get that she needs to pump out videos but come on girl. In the past few videos over covid I've just noticed so many errors and mistakes I ended up unfollowing her.
She still seems quite pompous with her apology at the start. She started off basically saying "you remind me of me when I was stupid in grad school" subtext - obviously now I'm super smart and well read.
@@lizernst3932 You need to go to grad school to be a dietician. She is educated to have her credentials. You can't downplay her education because others don't have the same credentials. If you're a doctor, you can't deny you went to med school, or a lawyer for law school, etc.
Well her tune seems to have changed on some things! Sometimes the best thing to do is call people out and try to make a truce and find the common ground. For quite a while now I've thought of how judgemental Abbey Sharp is, know-it-all etc. But maybe she's changed, or changing. She certainly seemed like a nice person in this video. Good work O2B!!
White privilege exists because you do not choose your skin color. Thin privilege isn't real because most people have control over their size. And so if we are talking about fatness that can't be controlled (which is much less than people claim), it would than be a medical issue which could than be considered a disability struggle and the whole able body privilege thing. Which is fine. But this is why thin privilege doesn't exist. Sure some people genetically are a little thicker or a little thinner so in that context, okay yes, we idealize size 0-2 bodies which not everyone can be genetically. But the people using this are obese people talking about straight size which goes up to a size 12 and most people wouldn't be above that if they took care of their bodies (except for the rare medical cases). Ive had my genetics tested. It said I am likely to weigh a little above average. And actually I weigh about 15 pounds below average for my height. This is only because I walk once a day and eat healthy. I don't go to bed hungry, I don't restrict myself from occasional fast food or dessert either. But this also leads into over eating being an addiction which is another conversation. And you wouldn't call it non addicted privilege just people some people are heroine addicts.
Just because ppl can work on their size, that doesnt mean thin privilege doesnt exist. Privileges can be earned and its clear to everyone, that being attractive gives you way more opportunities than if your fat and ugly
@@lushpapaya9932 You obviously didn't read what I said. Re read it. I talk about the difference between thin privilege and white privilege because one you can control and one you cannot. You have yet to talk to debunk any of that. Read the whole thing.
@@rachmaninovwasemo2313 i did read your novel.one of the first sentences is "thin privilege isnt real bc most ppl can control their size" Thin privile and White privilege ate two very different things, bit that doesnt invalidate thin privilege
I love both of these influencers as a woman recovering from anorexia. John is a sweetheart whose emphasis on personal health and self improvement is inspiring to the core. Abbey’s preaching about self love and forgiving yourself is wholesome and amazing to watch. I think that things get divided a lot, but that you can like two influencers without the same exact views. To me, both of these individuals are inspiring and helpful in their own ways.
I really appreciate Abbey and what she does. Abbey gives advice for people who have struggled with their relationship with food and disordered eating. As a person who fits this category her content is amazing. Her advice probably won’t resonate with you if you don’t fit that. For example I think Greg works super well if you haven’t struggled with eating disorders and are trying to lose weight. It probably works great. They’re just two different things for different audiences. It slightly annoys me people think only one or the other is right or wrong. There is space for both. Love this video.
I have struggled with anorexia, binge eating, and bulimia. I love coach Greg!
I have to disagree that his advice is for people who haven't struggled with disordered eating. its just his advice is for Binge eaters, while Abby's advice is for Anorexic, Orthorexic etc people. those disorders are kind of on the opposite side of the spectrum so they clash.
I have to disagree. Abbeys advice and nitpicky reviews have made my own disorder worse. I stay away from diet reviewers now. It's toxic.
I have BED and Coach Greg's diet has saved my life.
@@Forgefaerie Yes, this is it exactly. They both talk to people with different backgrounds in eating (disorders) and that clashes. For some people watching calories might be unhealthy and for others it might be helpful.
I genuinely do not and cannot understand why so many people dislike Abby in this community. Abby's content led me to OtB and I feel like their content works together perfectly. It's all about being intuitive and loving yourself enough to treat your body well. They have both provided me with so much evidence and enthusiasm for treating myself correctly instead of obsessing over being thin to the point of self harm. Abby and John have completely changed the way that I think about body positivity, in the best way. I seriously can't understand why so many people don't love Abby in this community and watching the comments on the stream while he watched her video made me not want to be a part of it.
I don't agree with some of the stuff she says, but she's not a bad person. Glad to see y'all just talk it out :]
Same, this interview really humanized her as I only know if her from her “hmmmph” clips on Greg Doucette :):)
I don't think she is a bad person at all but something about her is insincere.
Yes...unlike fraudlee the banana peel
when you're in the public eye, you can't please everyone. it's sad that these people who are trying their best to educate and empower get so much hate.
As someone who watches both of you I really appreciate this video. I think Abbey sometimes gets a lot of hate because they feel she comes off pretentious. Yet the same people hail Greg Doucette, who is never willing to accept anyone else's opnion, as their hero. Anyways loved the civil discourse here
My theory why some people dont like her because she comes off as a Karan yet she is far far far from it. Also she speaks to people who struggle with eating disorders and she herself had anorexia so I think the majority of people cant relate to having an eating disorder. Idk She’s a real one tho she speaks up for people and calls stuff out. An awesome ally.
@@izzielazickas exactly. I am recovering from anorexia and it’s very clear people don’t understand that perspective when i read these comments and think one size fits all approaches to nutrition are a thing. It’s really invalidating to people who are helped by an anorexia/orthorexia informed approach to teaching nutrition
So true but also I’m loling bc I really love Abbey & Greg. I just combine their advice when I apply it to my diet and it works great for me! It’s just funny bc those two butt heads sure sure.
Really loved her explanation of intuitive eating. Coming from someone diagnosed with binge eating disorder, working with my therapist with intuitive eating really really helped me gain awareness of my triggers and eventually get it under control. And like she said it’s not always about hunger. Many times it’s asking questions, why do I want to eat now? How will I feel afterwards? What does my body need right now?(eating junk or eating something with fiber to help me pass), do I genuinely want an extra slice of cake?(sometimes I do sometimes I don’t. Many times overeating for me is like being in a trance rather than actually being hungry/craving so asking the question is not restricting it’s bringing myself back to home base)
Anyways, that’s my experience. I’d say get medical help if you can and if not just asking yourself a question before eating to check in with yourself can go a long way. Good luck!
I follow both John and Abbey, and I equally value both perspectives ❤️ I also happen to think they are both good people with kind hearts.
I really love both of them and their content... I feel like I’m the only one loool
You're not alone haha I love their different approach
I think there’s room for both of their viewpoints - I think John is totally right about obesity but I think Abbey is right when it comes to people who are not morbidly obese.
Same! They often both make very similar points just they say it in a different way. They don’t always 100% agree but I don’t necessarily 100% agree with either of them as well.
You’re not alone! Love them both too
I’m so glad to see where their views align!
The Conversation was Needed. Great to see a really insightful interaction between John and Abbey. 🙌
Its nice to actually see these "conflicts" that occur on CZcams to have some resolution. It feels less like hopping around to different sides and is such a healthy, mature thing that I really don't see a lot on social media. I've really only seen it on this channel and while I don't agree with what everyone says at every point in the video, I do think that hearing both sides concurrently forms a more complete picture. This video and so many of the other interviews/conversations are so valuable to the viewers.
Love civil conversations like this 💜 It's okay to have different views and opinions as long as you're kind!
I'll admit, my view of Abbey was that she is someone who likes to twist people's words and control the narrative. I'm surprised that she agreed to have a live conversation with John, even though she knows he's critical of her views. This was nice.
He's probably the nicest person on the internet. What's the worst that could have happend?
For more views, obviously. Not a bad thing; it's what youtubers do to make money.
Its very clear what she said did not have any intent on insulting him. She didn't know that he has an IEP and was so sensitive about that choice of words that she used. So of course she would apologize. I don't think she's ill willed.
As a registered dietitian I really love how Abbey tries to educate and provide suggestions in her videos. It’s refreshing having someone on the internet spread evidence based knowledge, not BS. I was surprised when I found such negativity about her on other channels. Loved this convo, wish we had more of these collaborations!
The problem I have with her is she is very One sided. I think her viewpoint stems from her own issues and unhealthy relationship with food.
@@amysollers6505 I can understand that. I do however think the internet is flooded with insane diets and unsustainable quick fix solutions, so it’s nice to see someone who is sensitive to people who have struggled with an ED. But to base every single recommendation off of it will trigger someone or feed into an ED, I can see how that may be frustrating.
@@jessical8426 I see where you’re coming from and personally, I think Abbey‘s platform can be immensely helpful for people with a past or active restrictive ED.
I appreciate her evidence-driven approach tremendously.
The one thing I am critical of is kind of in line with how your phrased your comment, actually. She is focused on restrictive (!) EDs exclusively, when in reality, BED is the most prevalent one. Overeating, emotional eating, binge eating are real, they’re ruining people’s lives, and excluding them from the ED realm by using language in this way, is exclusionary and unhelpful towards people that suffer from it. I realize that that’s not done on purpose, but I do think this language use needs reflection and work. Claiming strategy X would help you in healing from your ED is de facto incorrect when she’s really only referring to one of two kinds of EDs.
Do you see where I’m coming from?
@@Iwasjustwondering89 yes I hear you. I don’t work with people who have ED, or disordered eating habits, so I appreciate how you explained this. I do think Abbey is sensitive to more than just restrictive eating, as many times I hear her talk about the emotional connection to food which I think can tie into the umbrella of BED. But hearing her use terms like orthorexia and restrictive eating a lot, I can see how it may seem like she’s just focusing on that side of ED. Hope I didn’t mess up too bad in my response lol
I legitimately like Abbey a lot. I don't always agree with her, but I like her.
Same. I think she’s a genuinely nice person
what happened? What did she say?
Agreed!
Same. Especially as someone who has struggled with restricting I like her perspective.
@@Grace-mn4el no ”tea” in my understanding, just has a different point of view when discussing weight management and eating habits than OtoB.
Ngl, I acc really appreciate Abbey and her CZcams presence. John moreso caters to individuals who haven’t struggled on the extreme ends of disordered eating (mentally) and suffering eating disorders so it would make sense for the clash. I personally believe Abbey comes across as understanding food and body image issues being multifaceted and how much of a slippery slope it is when losing weight. Abbey has healed and normalised a lot of people’s relationships with food, including myself. I think when she states things like ‘omg eat a chocolate’ or something is not twisting the narrative, but actually a breath of fresh air by normalising a balanced diet and getting rid of constant Orthorexia projected by the fitness community.
She gets a lot of hate with claims that she is "fake," but I get a candid, real vibe from her. She admits her faults and limitations.
Well she sounds fake to me.
I think so too. Maybe it's because she so carefully chooses her words? Don't know. I find it sad some people have gotten that idea about her, as I think she has a lot of great knowledge to share and she adapts her view based on newly available information / studies.
She's been through a lot through the years. She's not a new CZcamsr either. She has like ten years of content. I feel like she gets it. She started making a joke about her being "Switzerland" because she's not comfortable going "all in" on one school of thought. She's spoken about biodiversity before too. Intuitive Eating is exciting for a person like her so it makes sense she's incorporating it all so much. But IE has it's place and I hope Abbey comes out of all this understanding how it could be.
@@summersoul3 I think she carefully chooses her words because she’s very aware of privilege and doesn’t want to say anything offensive or triggering
Honestly could have listened to this for 3 more hours straight. Loved the open discussion!
Agreed
I’m so glad you are having a conversation! There is too much building walls, gate keeping and picking at each other or simply misunderstanding going on online, and talking to each other is the only solution to that in my opinion.
More so, because I genuinely think both of you try to help people in your own way, I think many viewers forget that 1. You have different approaches and 2. Those aim at Different people with different backstories.
Not gonna lie I couldn’t help but laugh when Abbey brought up Freelee. Reminded me of myself at 15, neck deep in my eating disorder, trying to convince my parents that I should just only eat carbs and I’ll be healthy 🥴
"Is butter a carb?" 🙂
Shoutout to the teenage "mom i can only eat bananas the crazy lady said so" freeleee phase. Following creators like OtB is so much better for my mental health!
I have definitely experienced thin privilege first hand, and it wasn’t until I gained weight as an adult that I realized what I had really been experiencing. Most of being overweight was from incredibly debilitating pregnancies, serious hormonal imbalances from what I was told was the healthiest diet, and then right as things were turning around after my final pregnancy, the complications from those pregnancies hit me in the form of four herniated discs. My life will never be the same no matter what. I grew up really thin and conventionally pretty. I just thought most people were really nice. People seemed to care a lot about what I had to say, people noticed me pretty much wherever I went and whatever I was doing. People would hold more doors for me or offer to help me more often. I thought that was normal. Then, after having my first child, my body was broken and no amount of fitness and eating right (especially a caloric deficit) would make me drop a single pound. Then that was when I realized I lived in a different world. I remember going home crying one day and telling my husband “I’m INVISIBLE now”. People just looked right through me. I’d go places with my fit husband and people would look back and forth between us, put their heads down and raise their eyebrows. My husband had many of his guy friends tell him privately it must be so hard to have a fat wife. That if their wives looked like that after having their baby they probably wouldn’t stay with them. People started rumors that I was pregnant again. I’d go on crazy intense hikes and do super intense workouts, I’d lift really heavy things like it was no big deal, and everyone would always look surprised. I felt trapped inside my body and that it had betrayed me. I was nobody all the sudden. I went to a doctor to find out what was wrong and get my hormones tested. He didn’t think I needed to and told me that I wasn’t being honest with myself about what I was eating, how much, and how much exercise I was really doing (I was tracking everything perfectly), because weight loss was calories in and calories out; that simple. It was devastating to not even be taken seriously.
For the record, I’m not saying, oh my life is so much harder than others’ because of this (there is a lot of seriously MESSED UP sh*t that has happened in my life, separate from these things) but I am grateful I learned because I used to really judge people who were overweight when I was growing up, and I used to judge postpartum moms before I had kids.
I side eyed but ...I appreciate her for doing this convo.
what happened? What did she say?
@@Grace-mn4el Nothing shady in this video. I just don't agree with a lot of her views and things she's said in past videos.
As a woman I can say skinny/pretty privilege is a real thing.. I’ve been on both sides of the fence and it is very much real, even when it comes to employment opportunities, being treated better or just being treated as human.
Is something a true privilege when you work and sacrifice for it though? 🤔
@@rebeccaspratling2865 some people work hard to look that way and others don’t. I think the point is people shouldn’t be devalued asked on looks. Privilege in this context is a neutral term, it refers to how someone with a qualifying factor is treated in relation to someone who doesn’t.
@@rebeccaspratling2865 hmmmm good question
@Jazzy Bebe that’s a really good way to put it.
@Jazzy Bebe it can be negative and the way I was using it is negative, just because u worked hard to LOOK good, u shouldn’t get any position that has nothing to do with your looks, that’s what I mean
Sat in bed with my morning coffee, kids at their dads watching this in peace and quiet! It’s pure bliss! Loved this video! 🙏🏾❤️
Sound like heaven on earth. You deserve it!
@@pihla6545 aww thank you! 🥰
I wish she or Greg would reach out to each other. Because I think they would have a great conversation. This was great.
That's a really cool idea!
I actually reached out for a nice civil respectful conversation but he never replied 🤷🏼♀️
@@AbbeysKitchen why doesn't that surprise me...
@@AbbeysKitchen Oh, what a shame :\
@@funmif30 The guy can’t go two-minutes without pandering slurs, seems like he can’t comprehend an articulative discussion 🙃
I think both of them are genuinely good people. I don't agree with everything they say, but, I know they have good intentions.
I read comments about Abbey Sharp being elitist and narcissistic. That's so far from the truth. I frequent her channel and she seems genuinely kind and empathetic. As someone with a similar background (anorexia/orthorexia), I relate with her content. If you frequent her channel, you'd notice she's extremely cautious with her words. Yet she's still a target for haters. I mean, if you're a public figure, you can't win.
If you are obese and trying to lose weight + gain muscle, then you probably should be watching O2B instead. They each target different audiences, is all.
This was sooooo goood, this side of abbey is refreshing and I hope she will be in this type of conversations with others CZcamsrs like Greg ... I think all of this CZcamsrs have so much in common and could be a united front to help people .... they are powerful
Totally agree!
Agreed!
She asked Greg to talk and he ignored her and is angry in the comment section here. So that much is on him and not her
Proud breaker of the binge restrict cycle here! Jordan shrinks is the one who brought it to my attention and helped me break it but I'm glad Abbey talked about it here
Honestly, I understand a little more about intuitive eating after this. I do think people use it as an excuse term to eat whatever they want sometimes. And I do not feel like I could "intuitively" like eat at this stage. I have over 100lbs to lose. And I do think there are things I need to completely overall about my diet to reach my goals. Like many terms, the way it's used can be helpful to some and just an excuse to continue bad behaviors for others. And intuitive eating sounds like "gateway drug" to me at this stage.
I completely agree as well. I tried intuitive eating for a while, and it didn’t work for me. But now that I’m halfway through my weight loss journey, and have been slowly, slowly overhauling my diet and way of eating, I’ve been able to healthily add in some intuitive eating. I think in the end, it really really depends on the person. And a balance of things is ideal.
@@KayKayBayForever Same! First I taught myself portion control by counting calories. Now I'm learning to maintain with intuitive eating.
@Jazzy Bebe Also, underweight people with eating disorders may need to feel the encouragement they can 'eat more' and not get out of control. I think a lot of it depends on where you are starting with your relationship with food.
I'm within normal weight range but I'd like to lose a couple of kilos and be more fit. Intuitive eating for me was breaking the "you need to finish your plate at a restaurant at all cost because you paid for it" thinking but it didn't mean "have a whole cake at night because you feel like it right now". I didn't really have a name for the diet I was striving towards before I came across Abbey's channel and I nutrition was part of my uni education so it wasn't the hardcore scientific facts that I was missing. For me it has always been easy to overeat because of some stupid rules like "finish your plate", "don't throw half of the ice cream away because you paid for it" and intuitive eating is helping me prevent those.
Yes intuition eating can be a misleading term. Because people with disordered eating need to LEARN how to properly listen to their body and they do need education on making specific choices. The goal is intuitive eating..but the path and process is not.
So I’m a blk woman who was obese, and now I’m down to a healthy weight, and I have to say I don’t like the body positive movement because I feel like it can make u get comfortable being at an unhealthy weight and it’s getting out of hand. BUT I understand why they don’t like ppl who aren’t obese using the body positive phrase when all u have is a couple of rolls, probably everyone has something on their body they are self conscious about, but that’s not why the movement started, it started for a specific group and now it’s being hijacked by a group that doesn’t/can’t relate to the reason the movement started. I don’t think anyone CANT complain or me personally I could care less if u use the phrase or not but I’m not going to act like I don’t get it, even if I don’t fully agree...
thank you. as someone who was morbidly obese, i cant stand it. feel like its just another excuse to not make healthier changes.
The double standard of the "body positivity" thing is that "oh its ok you're beautiful as you are", but the moment you decide "hey, I want to lose weight because it's a sign of my metabolism not being right and it's going to shorten my life" they start shaming you. Apparently you're only OK if you follow their dogma. It's as you say, it's hijacked by people with their own agenda. When I think of body positivity, I think of people not being mocked by their obesity, a missing leg, excema, vitiligo etc, that's not what the social justice idelogues have co-opted the body positivity movement to include.
I lost about 60 lbs after getting out of a long and unhealthy relationship, I'm in better shape than ever by just cutting carbs. Noone commented on me being obese, but now when I'm at 10% bf they say I look too thin and need to eat more. (Yet having put on 10kg of muscle on an already built frame). Had I starved myself then they might have a point, but I'm not, and they know it. When did low bf become synonymous with starvation and not nice (as opposed to low bf low muscle), yet obesity is "health at every size" and "beautiful"?
@@TheEightfoldPath_ I get the “too thin”, and”don’t lose any more weight” comments too and it’s so annoying, ... I think ppl just want to be made to feel good everyday all day, which it’s their choice but I don’t like the shaming ppl who don’t want to be fat, AND it’s nothing wrong with wanting to lose weight for vanity reason! Ppl always have to say it’s all health and yes it is BUT I feel like I LOOK better smaller and if I want to lose weight to LOOK BETTER there’s nothing wrong with that either
Agree. I get why some people don't like it when others use the phrase, because "that's not what the movement was for", but I also think that outrage is pointless, because you can't gatekeep the entire internet, and the phrase "body positivity" is everywhere... nobody's going to stop that many people from using it. It's an unwinnable war, so what's the point in fighting it? Just to be mad at the entire world, I guess? 🤷♀️
@@ninaasf-ck Giving up is a mentality determined for failure. You don't have to fight it, just to acknowledge that the original movement has been coopted and then you just realize all these "gruops" are just tribalism anyways. Who the fuck cares if you identify as "body positive" anyways? Actions speak louder than words, and the people doing the action usually don't care about labeling themselves anyways. Doing so is virtue signaling for the weak.
Maybe I never over thought the body positive part of her channel, but she helped me lose weight. I had to get to a point where I felt empowered and comfortable with eating before I could really start following my intuition in a healthy way. On top of that, I wanted to do right by my body because I was starting to love it. As John would say, eating good food and exercising will typically lead to weight loss and that’s what happened. I associate a lot of that with Abbey, though, because of the healing I had to do. I also love and appreciate what John has to say and I’ve learned a ton from him. There’s definitely an audience in between the two and it was great to hear this discussion. I hate feeling like I have to pick between people I respect so much
There's dairy-free Ben and Jerry's guys!
And I never eat a whole pint. Always around half. It lasts longer lol.
And it's absolutely bomb! So easy to find vegan stuff these times. The only bad thing is that now you can eat a whole shit ton of junk as a vegan😂
Right? I’m always sad when it’s gone so I make sure to take small quantities over a longer period of time.
I'm all up in the Half-Baked and Mint Chip varieties. 😋
Just because you don't agree with a persons opinion on a particular topic doesn't mean he or she is a bad person or cannot provide valuable information on other topics.
I found out about Abbey Sharp from Greg Doucette's videos, lol. She actually means well though, and you can tell she genuinely cares.
TBH I also stopped subscribing to Greg Doucette after a series of nonsense videos where him, then his girlfriend unnecessarily criticized and bullied the heck out of Stephanie Buttermore. It was super not cool, lost a lot of respect for him.
You did not understand or watch all of the video. That was not the message.
@@kevinhedman2314 literally.
Even if that wasn’t the message of the video, it was obnoxious and the intent of the clickbait titles. I considered unsubbing him.
@@kevinhedman2314 I’m genuinely curious why everyone should watch all of Greg’s content to get his message. I’ve seen this comment in response to any critique he has ever gotten. Does he just say crazy shit for clicks and then explains things better after five minutes? Like what’s the deal? Why is he so misconstrued all the time?
@@kevinhedman2314 soz. Miss me with that annoying too long to get to the point shit then. 🤷♀️
I love Abbey. I think her target audience is people with restrictive eating backgrounds and disordered eating . And she is right on a lot about that.
I also love O2B because I empathize a lot of with him as I have been fat in the past.
Also I like coach Greg as well but his advice I feel is tailored more for people who already have a decent relationship with food. Also his diet is pretty low fat generally (anabolic diet) and as someone with insulin resistant it’s not ideal for me.
I feel like O2B is the true moderate and that’s why I’m here.
One hundred percent. The majority of Abbey's content is aimed at people with eating disorders. She was actually really helpful to me when I was in recovery from anorexia.
Nancy Gonzalez if you have insulin resistance I HIGHLY recommend Tasting Positive also on CZcams. She brought her A1c down from 11 to 5.6 and also got off blood pressure medication and she eats bomb food that’s super tasty and healthy And also very affordable. Highly highly recommend.
@@Soleil5291 omg thank you for the recommendation I will check it out! Unfortunately for me my insulin resistance is not due to my diet tho it’s due to elevated cortisol levels from my job 😔. Nonetheless I’m going to check the channel thank you 💕
@@wickedcupcakes214undearting eating disorders*
I'm considered overweight. But I didn't realize until I started talking to a dietitian that I had an eating disorder. I was under eating during the day and then it would make me really hungry at night and I would binge. I would regret it and then I would restrict. After that the cycle continued. I didn't realize how few calories I was eating because I was eating snacks frequently enough that my blood sugar would was pretty level. I would also have a normal dinner. But for my height, age and weight I was eating about 1/3 of my calories. My doctors kept telling me to loose weight. And I was constantly made to feel like I was eating too much when I was eating. I eventually realized because of my dietitian that I wasn't eating enough. Adding more calories to my diet didn't mean I gained any weight. I didn't loose any either, but I have health issues and take medication that create weight gain. But now I am no longer food obsessed, suffering and constantly judging myself for everything I eat. Abbey really helped me with that honestly, I would discuss what she says in her videos with my dietitian and it helped me so much. It's never black and white. People assume I eat too much because of my weight, but it's so much more complicated than that.
I am exactly the same minus the medication. When I stop binge eating I usually lose weight but I also eat healthy except for binges and I was doing this too. Restricting even mentally and bingeing at night.
The judgement is real and not good.
2 of the nicest healthy youtubers ever, I love them both
I eat a pint of ben and jerrys and feel like i can transcend this dimension my stomach doesnt hurt at all
Crippling pain from Ice cream won't stop me from eating it LMAO
Lol, true. IMO it's not a good idea - you just build your tolerance so bingeing on junk becomes easier and easier
Great conversation. I enjoyed this a lot. Thank both of you for this ^^
Intuitive eating is possible if you eat real foods. If you eat frankenfoods like doritos, oreos, reeses, donuts, cheetos, etc, you are eating "foods" specifically engineered to break you natural satiety signals.
The fact that eating one pint of Ben & Jerry's leaves you feeling like crap doesn't guarantee that you'll learn a lesson and avoid making the same mistake. In my experience as a binge eater and food addict, the result is quite the opposite - the following day I crave sugar again and since I ate a whole pint of ice cream the day before, I've built up my tolerance and now I can eat even more junk on top of one pint of ice cream. When I started bingeing it would only escalate more and more. So no, I still don't believe intuitive eating is for everybody
I'm with you on this one. If I eat a single piece of candy, I need another. The more I eat the more I want. One example is I was at work and a co-worker had a candy bowl. Peanut butter cups, snickers...all the bite size good stuff. I ate one piece, then another and by the end of the day, that bowl was empty. I freaked out. I had to go buy more to replace it and I actually dug through my garbage can and took out every wrapper counting them. I got the nutritional info for each one and added it up. That single day was just over 4000 calories, 99g Saturated fat and 414 g sugar. 414 thats the equivalent of just over 100 teaspoons of sugar. The sad thing is I would have eaten more had there been more in the bowl. It goes beyond not healthy, the food industry has made sure its addictive. When I'm fasting I get zero cravings so thats what I do!
@@BOOMBiggityBam I feel you. I've had similar experiences to that. It's such a slippery slope... I don't learn from one binge to not do it again. In my case it's actually "practice" that makes bingeing harder next time even easier, lol. I do fasting too. I also find carnivorish keto very helpful. High protein, high fat, virtually 0 carbs. For me this way of eating is a craving buster and makes fasting easier. I could take a tour of the Willy Wonka chocolate factory and not be tempted. Real satiety feels like a superpower
@th1smomentisfate It's true - if you are a food addict, you can overeat anything. Happens to me, too - real proteins and fats are the only foods I can have some semblance of a control with but even then it requires a strategy. I like eating big meals, too. For that reason I've found that what works for me is keto carnivorish OMAD. I just cook the meal I'm gonna eat and that's it. When I'm done with my food, if I want more I'd have to cook it, but I'm satisfied and cooking more food is not worth the effort. I've been doing this well over a year now and quite happy with this plan
Yes!!! Unfortunately, this is not addressed in the book by Evelyn Tribole. They say that people coming from an ED background may need to relearn hunger cues, but do not address anything about people who have been chronically overeating and let's be honest, no one is binging fresh vegetables.
13:33 that's a huge problem in the industry and a major pet peeveof mine. Same with personal trainer. I actually made a video about this. My mother has never worked out a day in her life, doesn't watch what she eats, and has never studied exercise or nutrition science and, if she wanted to, she could call herself a "nutritionist" AND a "personal trainer" and there would be no legal repercussions for her.
Wow. I LOVED that. You need to do more interactions with people. I'm about to go to her page and subscribe. (I've been subscribed to you for a couple of months now.)
I actually like abbey and thought that Greg was overly sensitive about her video on him- especially since he makes a lot of harsh videos on others as well. I like Greg too, and I do definitely realize Abbey has flaws, but overall I feel like she’s overly hated.
the difference is that the video she made on him was straight up lies and bs
@@lucassidlauskassanches40 How can you type that without rationalising that Greg is no better?
He scrutinised Stephanie Buttermore’s “all in” journey and insinuated that she has food problems and a negative image to her followers in contrast to when he reviewed Stephanie Joshie (NuttyFoodieFitness), gave a bias review who is one of the biggest fake-eaters too going, claimed that she can ‘consume’ thousand of calories and still maintain that degree of a physique because she has “good genetics” all because she promoted his cookbook.
That guy contradicts himself considering he was the very first to call-out disordered eating and food challenges, yet is now endorsing his own mantra through this, which is very hypercritical and contradictory on his part. 🙃🙄
It's her exasperation, comments like "you do you" with eye rolls, and facial expression that is so off-putting.
@@ryanluttman1519 so you are saying that Stephanie buttermore doesnt have any food problems? But yea I agree with that about NuttyFoodieFitness
@@lucassidlauskassanches40 some people commenting more judgemental than both me mad Abby. Does nuttyfoodyfitness look like she is having food problems or has body image problems. She eats a lot on some days and exercises a lot. Eric the electric eats 15000 cals some days amd is jot fat because he rides a bike for 100’s of miles a week. Stephanie choose to starve then promote binge eating while being shredded then promoted going all in as a way to be at a healthy weight when I know fat too well it’s a bad way to do it so I spoke out. So what!!! Let her defend herself
I teach intuitive eating as a dietitian and rather than focusing on Calorie tracking I help my clients aim for balanced meals, allow cravings, and they track food in the beginning simply to see what they’re eating/ how they feel but not to put limits on calories and become rigid/obsessive. They are still making healthy changes to their quality of food, exercise, sleep and overall improving their health.
It took me weight loss surgery and struggling for 3 years to be able to learn how to intuitively eat. I had to train my body first to like veggies and more nutritious food, then find workouts that I enjoyed and I dieted for 3 years after surgery before trusting my body. For some people it’s literally baby steps until you have healed your body enough to trust it.
Food in general has gotten way more complex, way more calorie dense and way more processed. Roughly tracking calories and reading labels to try and lose weight while having cheat days helps in understanding the FOOD OF TODAY so u can survive all the grocery food choices and fast food out there and know how to eat enough to be satisfied while maintaining a healthy weight. BOTTOMLINE is tracking or estimating to lose weight THEN being less meticulous and more intuitive after having learned enough !!
I like Abbey, Greg and John - they all do a great job and in a lot of ways complement each other.💜💕
I dunno. There is something very disingenuous about her, and I feel she purposely misleads her audience about other creators’ diets in order to have content to critique.
Do you have any example? I’m just curious I watch her videos but not always the videos of creators she covers.
She's mostly very nice abt what people eat, she just gets more agitated when people are giving dangerous advice really. I like her reviews a lot, cause she shows people that usually deal with different stuff than I (like undereating problems or restrictive dieting)
Thats what alot of people do on youtube.
I didn't find her misleading until she was pregnant this year. I think she relied heavily on her team while she was going to the doctors and they cut some corners on research.
@@ang5942 Yes, look up Greg Doucette. He made a few videos defending himself, and other CZcamsrs defended him as well. She chose old videos of his from 10 years ago, didn’t watch the entire videos of what she was critiquing, and contradicted her own advice through out.
Is it wrong that I love O2B and Abbey? Because I do.
I love them both and watch both their content with a lot of interest! Their different approach and perspective is really pertinent to me
I love both equally and watch both
We all have bodies. Just because a certain group of people STARTED the movement, doesn’t mean others can’t partake. Other groups participating in body positivity doesn’t negate or ostracize the originals...we all have bodies. We can all be body positive.
Also, it’s not just about being in marginalized fat bodies. Amputees, disabled persons, those chronically ill, those with loose skin should be included more
I have stretch marks that I am unhappy about, and loose skin from losing a lot of weight, I am afraid to call myself body positive because what it has come to mean nowadays. It's only for obese woman, because I'm 110lbs. I dont fit in that category. No place for me. I would get so much back lash. I Just deal and b the best I can everyday. Body positive should b, being positive about ur body, amd loving urself enough to allow urself to b as healthy and as strong as possible. I Hide myself and my flaws. It's conflicting #no excuses
Searching for coach Greg in the comments 🤓🤓🤓
Omg John I’m constantly impressed by you taking the high road with everybody who disagrees with you.... good shit as always John
I like her in the way that I don't want to be her friend but I don't hate her. She's just really unaware of the greater universe beyond her space
She's extremely privileged and it seems like she doesn't realize it
@@seriesjunkie90 she says she's privileged every 3 minutes of the day. She can't change the culture she grew up in. Until she's starving on the street she will never really know.
@@mairzydoats4879 yet she doesn't seem to want to change her behavior accordingly. In one of her recent videos she had a sponsor that sells those stupid ultra expensive teas that she constantly critiques others for.
Hypocrisy at its finest
@@seriesjunkie90 Money doesn't buy happiness.
Lol I find it funny how people on social media make all this WAY more complicated than it should be lmao.
But if they didn’t there would be no $$$$$ in it! It’s pretty hard to sell “eat nutritious real foods, be physically active in any number of ways, stop making excuses, stop obsessing over yourself and/or hating yourself”
I don't like Abbey, or how she seems to be the type to twist narratives to her own convenience, but I commend her for actually apologizing. Better than a lot of youtubers.
Makes me sad because I did use to like her content but she became so fake? This conversation didn't feel very genuine from her either, more to save face.
@th1smomentisfate bless johns heart he is a sweet bean
Good news - if you don’t like Abbey, you don’t have to watch her channel. Watch something that’s more supportive to your journey. Easy.
I thought body positivity meant that you love, accept and appreciate your body 🤷🏽♀️
ppl that didnt want to improve claimed that term
My two favourite people in one video; Abbey and John! 😃🤗
I actually found freellee too and I’m glad I wasn’t young and naive to fall for her dumb diet but it did remind me to increase my fruit intake (not all fruit tho) & I’m down 75 lbs bc of it :)
Body positivity was started by a doctor specialising in eating disorders in the late 90s
Oooooooo when your CZcams worlds collide! Love you both 💕 can’t wait to watch
”Used to live in a larger body”? It’s called being fat. Fat. And being fat doesn’t make you a bad person in anyway, but you can’t make facts go away by changing the words.
he's a person living in a body. that body can change over time and in many ways. he was living his existence, in a body larger than his body is now. it's not incorrect or not a fact.
you may view it as being overly sensitive or an inconvenience to go 'changing the words', but if not using that word around certain people means that they're feeling less hurt, shameful or any other negative feeling it's a pretty small trade off for somebody to have control of their dignity. it's a choice i make but i wouldn't ever want to force or aggressively change somebody into using certain vocabulary either.
I'm happy to see you two discussing all these stuff!
Been following yo both forever, Abbey is the sweetest youtuber. I don't believe anything she said was with ill intent.
I think what type of diets you’ve tried and how much you know about nutrition and about your self, makes a difference in what approach you should take. Iv been overweight my whole adult life (Im 26) and Iv only tried to lose weight a handful of times. Even though Iv been told allot about nutrition, macros etc, but there’s stuff I’m still learning.
7:12 she’s wrong, black women did NOT start the body positivity or fat acceptance movement. I take great offense to the notion that black women need it “more” than other women.
So excited to have them both here! I love them both!
Abbey Shark dududududu
😆
Yes!!! the collab I needed!!!!
All feelings are valid John you are right just because you are this and that does not mean you don’t feel the struggle
Scrolling through the comments and seeing a lot of people dislikes Abbey? Can someone explain why?
For me I am struggling with severe bulimia and johns content especially when he talks about binge eating has been helpful with that while abbeys what I eat in a day reactions have been helpful in meals planning and how I think about it.
My hunger and fullness is messed up from past binge eating and also I just have to eat every four hours due to blood sugar.
Loving this!
I'd like to see Abbey stop pushing Intuitive eating like it is the holy grail, especially without saying that it is great for some and not for others. Or that some people may need a lengthy transition process and can't just eat intuitively naturally.
What sorcery is it when you feel unwell after a pint of ice cream? Are there wizards who can actually make you feel like you had too much afterward? Can mere mortals find them? 😂
I can’t think of a better duo than O2B and Abbey.
I'm 180 pounds. That man lost my entire thick ass body.
I don't think Abby is a bad person but she really does go out of her way to always say the woke thing, and it comes off as disingenuous. Did it really surprise her to hear that people who lose weight are often attacked for being fat phobic? Really? It never occured to her that some of the other people also get a ton of unwarranted hate comments?
Her advice is probably great for a specific audience: people who struggle with eating disorders, and so have to be careful about introducing restrictions, since they will spiral into unhealthy extremes. I'll be honest, I've never experienced this so I'll defer. She knows a lot more about that than I do and seemingly has great advice for these people. Maybe she could add to her list of disclaimers that her advice really doesn't apply to people who wish to lose weight and struggle a lot more with constant cravings for junk, and need guidance and encouragement, but never spiral into over applying strict rules.
Good job Abbey! :-) Freaklee is too chicken shit to make a move like this. You did awesome, with honesty and maturity.
When in human history have humans not felt hunger time to time? It's okay, you won't die if you don't eat for few hours.
“I don’t think it’s my place to determine who intuitive eating is good for or not good for.” Yet preaches intuitive eating in all her videos and isn’t emphasizing that people should meet with a dietitian to find the best fit for them. Just one disclaimer isn’t good enough in a video when you’re discussing people’s health in my opinion. Intuitive eating was not helpful for me, it made me gain weight even though I was working with a dietitian.
Edit to add: she does seem nice and genuine but I don’t think she really understands how to help most obese people.
This sounds like two councillors talking
Oh my gosh!! 2 of my favorite CZcamsrs!! 😍
I was hoping you guys would do a video together. This is exciting
great video !
I love Abbey! ❤️
Did you post this the other day? I feel like I’m having major deja vu!
I get annoyed with the thin privilege argument because as someone who has always been underweight! People have always judged me and strangers will talk about my weight or ask me what size I am or how much I eat. I can’t fit in normal store size clothes! My legs are too short for pants! So being thin doesn’t give me any privilege! It’s really annoying I can’t reach the told shelves at the store! How am I privilege for being thin?
I like how Abbey elaborated on the path to intuitive eating in this conversation. And I don't like how it's very much missing from her chanel. I watch basically all her videos, as I love food and I like everything about it lol. But it's almost as if she shows this true, full opinion on intuitive eating only in this conversation where she presumably has to find middle ground with someone from the other camp. On her channel however there is too much emphasis on fighting everything surrounding diet culture, even mindful calorie counting in regards to reaching body goals. I don't see how one can not be intuitive about their food (e.g. freestyle meals, don't stress if some day's worth of eating isn't ideal, don't punish themself because of food etc.) and yet to use "diet culture" attributes: purposely choosing the healthiest foods when objectively possible, unlearning to crave junk foods (which for some can also mean literally not buying and not looking at them ever again), counting calories to meet a specific body look. On the contrary to that intuitive eating is kind of dogmatic nowadays, like trademark or something...
I will add: Because if anything, intuitive eating isn't TRULY intuitive, You still have to have knowledge about nutrition.
@@natalie5334 yeah, we live in a society where nutrition is really obscured. Both in the sense that people don’t receive nutritional education, but also in the sense that foods are so heavily processed nowadays that calorically dense, nutrient sparse foods are often addicting and overly common in our diets. Intuitive eating gets talked about as the “natural” way to eat, but we are surrounded by unnatural foods. That being said, I do still think a balance is achievable.
i miss the morning oats :-(
I totally agree. I was just thinking today I miss the older content and the "vlog" style videos. I miss the old intro and sign off. Would love to hear another "look how buff I am...grrrr" 😂
I really really really dislike Abbey but I do respect her for doing this and apologizing.
I think Abbey does great and sends a good message when she makes her own videos. I can see that she would be helpful to people who struggle with their relationship with food. I do not think her reviews of what other people eat are good. She is overly critical. She uses terms like red flags or says she is concerned over absolutely nothing. She makes it seem as though every single meal needs to be perfectly balanced when she makes those types of videos but that really contradicts her over all message. I feel like she negates herself in these videos. She will call out on meal for not having enough protein even though the next meal the person eats might be packed with it. It just doesn’t make sense. I think that’s where she really pisses people off.
I think she needs to do better research. I get that she needs to pump out videos but come on girl. In the past few videos over covid I've just noticed so many errors and mistakes I ended up unfollowing her.
Calorie deficit Abby Sharp do do do dodo do!
What claims did Abbey make about O2B ? What did she say/apologise for? I missed some tea!
in a video she mentioned that he struggled with a text which he actually didnt which made she look like she said he is stupid
I wish you would have asked her about Greg doucettes response to her diet review and judgments on him
She still seems quite pompous with her apology at the start. She started off basically saying "you remind me of me when I was stupid in grad school" subtext - obviously now I'm super smart and well read.
Especially right after John said he was in special education. She immediately was like "while I was in grad school"
@@lizernst3932 You need to go to grad school to be a dietician. She is educated to have her credentials. You can't downplay her education because others don't have the same credentials. If you're a doctor, you can't deny you went to med school, or a lawyer for law school, etc.
@@teeamabry yes I know that, obviously, I am a Dr myself, just came off as pompous
I love you and your content but I feel like the word struggle was used like 100 times, was that intentional?? 😂😂😂
John uses a lot of crutch words. “Like” and “struggle” were some of his in this video
Well her tune seems to have changed on some things! Sometimes the best thing to do is call people out and try to make a truce and find the common ground. For quite a while now I've thought of how judgemental Abbey Sharp is, know-it-all etc. But maybe she's changed, or changing. She certainly seemed like a nice person in this video. Good work O2B!!
White privilege exists because you do not choose your skin color. Thin privilege isn't real because most people have control over their size. And so if we are talking about fatness that can't be controlled (which is much less than people claim), it would than be a medical issue which could than be considered a disability struggle and the whole able body privilege thing. Which is fine. But this is why thin privilege doesn't exist. Sure some people genetically are a little thicker or a little thinner so in that context, okay yes, we idealize size 0-2 bodies which not everyone can be genetically. But the people using this are obese people talking about straight size which goes up to a size 12 and most people wouldn't be above that if they took care of their bodies (except for the rare medical cases). Ive had my genetics tested. It said I am likely to weigh a little above average. And actually I weigh about 15 pounds below average for my height. This is only because I walk once a day and eat healthy. I don't go to bed hungry, I don't restrict myself from occasional fast food or dessert either.
But this also leads into over eating being an addiction which is another conversation. And you wouldn't call it non addicted privilege just people some people are heroine addicts.
Just because ppl can work on their size, that doesnt mean thin privilege doesnt exist. Privileges can be earned and its clear to everyone, that being attractive gives you way more opportunities than if your fat and ugly
@@lushpapaya9932 You obviously didn't read what I said. Re read it. I talk about the difference between thin privilege and white privilege because one you can control and one you cannot. You have yet to talk to debunk any of that. Read the whole thing.
@@rachmaninovwasemo2313 i did read your novel.one of the first sentences is "thin privilege isnt real bc most ppl can control their size"
Thin privile and White privilege ate two very different things, bit that doesnt invalidate thin privilege