Yamaha Montage M vs Roland Fantom EX
Vložit
- čas přidán 21. 11. 2023
- Check out this highly requested and anticipated video where I give my perspective and opinion concerning the newly released and highly regarded Yamaha Montage M X vs the Roland Fantom EX. The video is long, but I just wanted to do the subject justice. Turn it on during a long drive or even play it on the while just relaxing at home. I hope you enjoy my view. Please feel free to leave comments and let me know what you think.
If you don't own either or both already, which one will you purchase?
MONTAGE M OR ROLAND FANTOM EX????
LIKE, FOLLOW, SUBSCRIBE, COMMENT, HIT THAT NOTIFICATION BELL, & SHARE!!!
They all help the channel! Thanks so much!!
This video is rendered in 4k. - Hudba
You put a lot of prep into this professional and well articulated video. Well done. Much appreciated.
Thank you very much for the feedback. I'm glad you enjoyed it. Stay connected!
ditto
Thanks!
Usually a lot of talking and no playing is not a good thing, but everything that you said was 100% useful info to me! Thanks!
Hey man I try my best! I have some other videos specifically for playing !!!! I hope you are able to check those out and enjoy them as well!
@@JuliusDeBerryJr oh yes, that's nice too. But the fact that you can make such an informative video, without any playing, is a great feat. I'm seriously considering buying a Fantom now and then, in case I still need it, a Montage M further in the future. Many of my synths are Yamaha, MODX8, S90ES (3x, with PLG150DX, CS6x(3x, each with 2x PLG150AN), SY77, SY99 and EX5. Many of the points that you bring up are exactly what I miss in the Yamaha's and would like to add to my standard set-up. Thanks for the information!
Thx for the comparison bro, articulated very well. Just what I needed to hear. Appreciate it Homie! 😉✌🏾
No problem! Glad I could be a help! Stay connected 💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾
Masterful comparison - thx for such a thorough and well-balanced review 👍
Thanks for the kind words! Trying to get some more content out on both of these boards. Stay connected! More to come in the future.
Well done Julius, excellent review, always wanted to hear unbiased opinion. Hope you're well.
Regards Quentin (UK)
yes, I'm doing great! just enjoying the holiday. I'm glad you enjoyed the video!!! stay connected!
Thank you for this great video! Your videos are very helpful! 👍🏾
I really appreciate the kind words !! Thanks so much. Stay connected. More content is on the way.
as usual, Julius, a job well done: I would like to comment a little on the history of sequencers in workstations. Back in the old days, of tape recording, you still had multi-tracking and you certainly had linear recording, but the problem was that you had to play the entire song all the way through, so that, if , say you made a mistake with the bass line near the end of the song, you had to do ALL of it over again. Ensoniq was the first one to break down sequencers into sections, and then allow you to daisy chain those sections to create your song. Now, you could concentrate on a part of a song at a time, making it much easier. Ironically, Yamaha, who later dumped this concept, HAD it on the venerable MOTIF, of which I still use. Motif took the Ensoniq equation and made it even more flexible, allowing timing changes between parts. So, along came Fantom, which, although using the Ableton type format, because of it's breakdown to patterns, then groups and THEN, songs, it once more incorporated the technique of working on a part of the song at a time, and then later daisy chaining it together. I would have upgraded from my Motif to the original Montage, IF they had kept the same sequencer functioning, but they went in a different direction, lessening it's overall impact on the keyboard. In fact, there hasn't been a single company video yet on Montage M demonstrating the sequencer, relegating it to the background, assuming that everyone would be using DAW and it wouldn't matter. To those of us who STILL use our workstation sequencer, it DOES matter. Now: if you want to talk about sounds? Montage M has elevated Pianos, both acoustic and electric to about as high a form as you can, and that , to me, is one of the main credits of the new series. Eventually, when the re-sale market brings down the price, I will get a Montage M in the smallest format, and drive it from either one of my workstations, namely either the Motif or my new Fantom. BTW, I still have an Ensoniq TS12 in my rig, as there are certain sounds on that which are superior, and timeless.
Played around both of them in a studio the other day...They are 2 great keyboards....would love to have both!!
Yes they are! Definitely!!!
You are the best at reviewing… providing real information thx
Thanks for the kind words. They are much appreciated!!!
Your work is amazing and appreciated bro .
I really really appreciate the kind words and encouragement. Thank you so much!
26:00 you "immediately" went over the user interface quite well LMFAO good video bro keep it up
Glad you enjoyed it!!!
Lol what did you mean by "immediately" 😅
@@JuliusDeBerryJr from 26:00 to 27:00 count how many times you say the word "immediately" LOLOLOLOL
Hey Bro. I enjoyed your videos about the Montage M and the Roland Fantom. I'm thanking about getting both for a keyboard collection. Great Videos.
Wow. Alot of people would love to be in your shoes. Lol. Doing it for that reason. Haha
So glad to hear your take on these two fantastic pieces of gear. It’s clear you spent some serious time with both. I am a Roland guy so I have bias.
Hey there, Julius.
Great post.
Both are awesome keyboards. What a time we live in. Remember when we were coming up how epic the OG Motif, Fantom and Triton were despite all their limitations? We ran out of polyphony all the time. We had to buy those expansion boards (for me it was Korg's Concert Grand Piano EXB-PCM08) I loved those synths.
We have bigger sound libraries then ever and the keyboards are more powerful than ever with more polyphony and more on offer. While modeling and all the sound engines are great we must give the folks at these companies their due. PCM sampling is incredible. I really enjoy it. An iconic instrument often captured using top-of-the-range gear in a state-of-the-art facility. Few do it as well as Yamaha and Roland.
Both these keyboards are amazing. You cannot go wrong with either of them.
I am a Korg guy and I put my money on Nautiilus. It is perfect for the way I play.
Thanks for another great video, Julius.
Thanks for your kind words and feedback! They are appreciated. Also you are exactly right. We've got a lot of good things going for us as far as music creation and technology is concerned!!! Amazing time for us!
Julius, your reviews are really good! I love it when you talk about how workstations can complement the other workstations. Dk talk about why we have polphony issues in 2023 with todays technology. When I looked at the price of the Montage M8, I said Lawd, help me!"" I do have 2 ES Rack with 4 Xp. I was just spoiled with Korg 9 engines. I am impressed with the Sounds of the MM. But, not at 4500 IMOP overpriced that included the Fantom, too! They both would work amazing together. Their future updates may be promising. I'm passing on both.
Thanks for your feedback and encouraging words! Yeah the price is high for sure. But at least it's not Nord level.
I have the same issue with kurzweil the aftertouch is insane to activate even with the settings to adjust it
As always a beast well documented video. Thanks very much. Question, Do any of these 2 Keyboards contain a Recorder. Like say Korg Kross. ? Tia !
When you say recorder, do you mean a stereo track straight to USB or something else?
I meant cspsbilities to record over imputs, such as instruments, audio recorder intergrayed with midi tracks, as well as storing up to 200 seperate wave files, to either use as bscking tracts or break music. There are few things thrown in there, and usb as well
I'm not sure I understand what you mean. It can record over USB to a computer. And also direct to USB (montage for sure)
Decent review, thanks for posting.
That was very GOOD ,,,Thank you for the Info..!!
thanks for the kind words and encouragement!
Excellent video - thanks
I appreciate the kind words. Thank you so much!
Gracias por tus opiniones Julius. Son muy claras y honestas
Thanks for watching!!!
Fantastic video! I had to subscribe! Great job! I had the same dilemma about whether the Fantom or Montage. I have the Montage original. Trying to afford the upgrade. Working on it. I use the Montage 7 as a module (controlled by an 88 key controller), as a controller (for software synths), as an audio interface (very powerful Steinberg interface to run Omnisphere/Keyscape and B-3X live) and as a hardware synth. Originally, I was mad at Yamaha for keeping the TFT screen (which I don't like at all), but I think I can get past it, since they put more contrast on the display. Thanks again! My desire to upgrade my Montage 7 has been reignited! Great Job on the video!
So you only want a single keyboard to use right?
How much is the upgrade cost between the OG montage and the new one?
@@JuliusDeBerryJr I actually use 2 keyboards. The OG Montage I have has been used by me on many stages and weather conditions, so, it is not going to get much for resale since it looks heavily used but functions perfectly. A new Montage M is $4000! While OG montages are selling for about $2500, mine may not sell for as much (scrapes on the front and bottom from being set up for gigs in many different places and performing environments even though I keep it in a flight case). I use the OG Montage on the top tier of a 2 tiered stand. The Montage functions as a regular synth, a controller for software synths (Omnisphere, Keyscape and B-3X by IKmm), a sound module triggered by my lower tier 88 key controller and an audio interface to merge my soft synths with the Montage (with Montage's amazing on board Steinberg integrated audio interface!). So I am a 2 keyboard player. Once I get money saved for the Montage M, I am pulling the trigger. I considered the Fantom heavily, but the audio interface in the Fantom was a turn off to me, as well as, the lack of a genuine FM synth. Anyway, I love to see and support fellow musicians!
What's the issue you have with the Fantom audio interface?
@@JuliusDeBerryJr There is no indication as to what type of audio interface is in this machine. Roland has had problematic audio interfaces, historically, for me (for example, the labeled “Roland” interface that was actually an Edirol interface that was far from professional). I have others tell me that the audio interface in the Fantom is an RME, but there is absolutely no information whatsoever of that being the case. The use of Steinberg audio interfaces typical of Yamaha was a major selling point for me. The only thing I can think is if there is any information on how a computer detects the Fantom. What brand does it label the audio interface? Or is it the generic USB audio, which means that it is no particular reputable audio interface. I have had others state “why would Roland put a generic audio interface in a machine like this?” Very true, unless, the focus is mostly on the synth and less on the audio interface integration. Yamaha put a lot of thought into integrating Tablets/Computers and external audio workflow into the Montage. Do you happen to know how a computer detects the USB Interface in the Fantom? I am dying to know! If I am wrong about the Fantom audio interface, I am okay with that. I just need to know because I heavily integrate into my setup Software Synths that are resource hungry. Any info you have really helps!
When you say how it detects it, what do you mean? Like what it comes up as? I can check that and let you know. But I haven't ever really looked into the type (name brand) interface that is inside the keyboards... If it is an RME, that would be incredible. Lol
Great informative video! You forgot the SuperNatural Acoustic engine and the Virtual Tonewheel Organ engines on the Fantom
Would love if you did a detailed comparison and deep dive into the user/workflow friendliness etc of the sequencers in both of these here and the DAW-friendliness and support aspects
yes sir. the sequencer videos are on the way!!!
I think that the organs and synth sounds are pretty close on both. But the acoustic sounds on the Montage are much better. The samples are newer and have natural articulations, whereas many of the Fantom acoustic sounds are little improved from the Integra-7 from 8 years ago. The performance options like the Superknob also add a lot of nuance and realism. Where the Fantom shines is as a master studio or stange keyboard. The panel effortlessly lets you mix internal nd external sources and the DAW integration is excellent. Fantom is also better for workstation features. It allows you to sample yourself (the Montage will load user samples, but can't create them). And the sequencer is much better (the Montage has a 16-track sequncer, but tracks can't be edited--only replaced,)
If you can afford both, than you should get both. If you have to pick one, than try them out yourseld, but I'd say that if internal sounds are most important, than the Montage wins. If workflow and control are important, than the Fantom is a better choice--and it's much cheaper too.
great observation!
Observe that both have good marketing teams. They need fresh technical directors though because they completely missed (or so) the midi 2.0. They do not care or they are not allowed to care. In both cases a technical manager would do better with same marketing constraints.
I had no clue the Montage 88 key was so much more expensive. Yikes! Great overview. Greet video as well!
@productamadeus8745 that's me comparing new to used.... At the time of the video there were no used MONTAGE M available.... That may have changed somewhat now. But still there will be a viable price difference between the two.
Montage m8x announced a new software update which includes midi 2.0 protocol. Its excellent news@@sptwoorbital3831
I don't have a Montage M yet, but I'm planning to buy a Montage M7. I currently have a Roland Fantom 7. You are right that it all depends on what workflow you use it for. I've had a Fantom 7 for 2 years now, and unfortunately my desire to add an arpeggio editor in an update hasn't changed in all these years. They gave me an EX Ugpgrate update, I bought it. What do I think? Everything would be great if you didn't run into all the limitations again. Everyone guessed that the ACB would probably only be used for one Zone, but it is not a good decision to use it for Zone 1, where the V-Piano is. The JD800's entire set of effects also only works on one Zone. So if I set JD800 to several Zones, it cannot use the full set of effects. The Supernatural pianos are weak, nowhere near the sound of the V-Piano, because they took out all the things like string resonance, pedal noises, etc. Polyphony's system is very bad. The polyphony of Yamaha Montage M and Korg Kronos is much better. Each engine of the Montage M has its own polyphony, which is great. The Korg Kronos 200 is polyphonic, but each engine has its own polyphony, so it's up to you how you use it, and there's also a polyphony level meter, which is nice. The Montage M sequencer is better than the Fantom clip-based sequencer. It is true that Fantom is extremely easy to use, but there are many shortcomings. Montage has a super feature that Montage M also has, which is that you can save 8 different settings to 8 Scenes. Layering and splits sounds, Mute and Solo settings. When you create a song, you can make a Scene Chain, and this 8 Scene can switch its own settings automatically. This is great, because I can concentrate on playing music with both hands, and I don't have to switch the Scene buttons, so if I need a new voice split in a part of the song, it is automatically switched in the sequencer where I set it. It is similar in the case of the Fantom, but there the sequencer cannot automatically move the PAD buttons to where I have set the KBD SW Group settings, so while playing the sequencer song, if I want to use my KBD SW Group settings live, I have to press the PAD buttons, because the sequencer cannot register PAD buttons for KBD SW Group. This method is easily implemented by Montage M. This is a great thing that I haven't experienced with any synth. I plan to sell the Fantom and buy the Montage M. As far as the VA engines are concerned, the Fantom has an attractive interface, but in terms of programming, both are on the same level. As for the VA engine polyphony, it is perhaps better in the Fantom, because the Montege M AN-X 16 polyphony, the Roland Model Expansion can do more polyphony. The Jupiter 8 has 32 polyphony, the Juno 106 about 14. For the JX8p, I know 24 polyphony, I don't know exactly about the SH-101. If you make music with it, it's worth using something from each of them, because then polyphony can be achieved. Why are there different polyphony values for Model Expansion? Because the Jupiter 8 and the Juno 106 use a different filter, for example. In the case of the Jupiter 8 Model Expansion, the LPF filter is active for each voice, and in the case of the Juno 106 and JX8p, it uses combinations of BPF and PKG filters, which reduce the polyphony. The other thing is the Unison mode that can be assigned to it. If you use them wisely and use all 4 free Model Expansions for songs, you have a good chance of using a full 1-16 Zones for a song. At Fantom, the filters and Unison can significantly influence the polyphony. The polyphony of PCM sounds is horrible. I've never had a problem with AWM2 polyphony. Most Waveforms are Stereo, unlike Fantom, where every Waveform consists of L and R samples, so the 256 polyphony is actually only 128. The Zen-Core engine runs the PCM and VA engine as well. Let's also not forget that the Model Expansion sets also build the sounds from the Zen-Core VA, they just got a new Interface and assigned the properties of the modeled instruments. The only thing I'm not sure about is N/Zyme because it's a Wavetable synth. What I wrote was long, but this is also important information that can help you make a decision. Overall, the Montage M is better, but the Virtual Analog part of the Fantom is also strong, so it's a difficult decision.
The Montage M does not have much if any limitations with Engines and what slot they must be in. You can play all engines at the same time and have all 400 notes of 'stereo' polyphony! You have to be careful as Roland seems to advertise their polyphony, but don't always specify that it's mono polyphony, so if you want stereo you have half the amount they say. So basically if Yamaha wanted to, they can just advertise 800 notes of mono polyphony on the Montage M.
very difficult. It's like splitting hairs. I think having either is a win for anybody, it REALLY just boils down to workflow. I think research is very important but not only research, but KNOWING what YOU want to accomplish and HOW you plan to do it.
where did get the info about the roland model expansions having their own polyphony? and also what the polyphony numbers are?
@@JuliusDeBerryJr I talked about Model Expansion polyphonies in the Roland Clan forum. I read it there. By the way, I tested the Juno 106 myself. I held a 10-note chord with both hands, which I recorded with the aid of the sequencer. I checked how many additional sounds it can use so that sound theft does not occur. In the case of the Juno 106, 14 sounds were still fine, with 15 polyphony there was already sound theft.
Thanks!
WOW! Thanks for the kind words about the video! And thank you for the super thanks donation toward the channel. A push from the audience goes a long way!!!!
Great video. I like both and haven’t purchased yet. I currently have Roland cloud, so the Fantom intrigues me. But I also like the idea of the coming full VSTi of the Montage M.
So if you might buy both, which one in 88 key form and which one in 61 key form?
great question. I'd probably pick the 88 key Montage M and a 61 fantom. I think that would be a great combination of their best usage scenarios.
@@JuliusDeBerryJr gotcha.
1. Would you say the Montage keybed has a better weighted feel than the Fantom 8? I know aftertouch makes this a touch subjective.
2. Also wish the Montage had more physical outputs like the Fantom.
3. Would like to try both 61 key versions with my studiologic sl88grand as weighted controller for their pianos and Rhodes.
1. Not a better weighted touch.... Just different.
2. What do you mean more physical outputs? The montage has 2 additional outputs
@@JuliusDeBerryJr Fantom has 4 sub outs, XLR option for mains, plus analog and cv gate outs. Very useful for live connectivity. Especially if you need multiple outs for click, backing tracks, etc.
Oh ok. Yeah. I was wondering you were meaning the XLR (copy of the main)... I like the XLR option that Roland has started using. It's also on the Integra7 and the Jupiter 80.
This is the first place I've heard a negative reaction to the Montage M8x keybed. The reactions on Gearspace seem to be all positive. They seem to like that the keybed feels light.
I very briefly tried an M8x in a store and I also thought it was pretty light. But I'm not so fond of keyboards that are too light when it comes to pianos. I think it's easier to control dynamic range when the keys are heavier. I'm coming from a Yamaha S90ES which I think is relatively heavy, maybe just a little too much. Ideally I'd like something in between.
Yeah remember I said the gospel community specifically.
Great job
In your opinion, which keyboard has the most realistic piano keybed feel ?
Between these two, the Fantom is more realistic. But they were going for something kinda different/innovative on the montage mx8.... It feels great but can also be fully utliEs for synth style playing or even maybe organ.
The fantom 8 is definitely the closest to a real acoustic grand. The montage m8x feels too light, almost too "clicky" if that makes sense
BEST REAL REVIEW OF THESE KRYBOARDS I'VE SEEN.
Correct, I sold my Fantom6 to buy the M8x but I heard the V-piano and ACB engine can't play at the same time as you mentioned. The Montage M has added the YC rotary organ simulation which is fantastic. The M one-to-one softsynth is coming free to owners in 2024 to impact workflow big time. Who knows what other capabilities are coming including for the new GEX/PAT because it's customizable but only available on the M8x.
Definitely a missed opportunity about the ACB and V piano not being able to be used together... That would have been insane. Lol
@@JuliusDeBerryJr It's a design limitation on the current platform but whenever Fantom2 arrives that will be history as a limitation.
That could be 3-5 years from now. Lol
I definatley agree out of the box the montage has a more polished sound, the roland presets can be pretty "steppy " in terms of velocity layers barking out at you , but the fantoms sheer number of samples is pretty rediculous .
Thx for making this video, very useful.
Does Fantom Ex upgrade make Roland Jupiter X obsolete?
You are welcome! No I don't believe any keyboard makes any other keyboard obsolete ...
But especially not an upgrade
Both are great but I would go with the Fantom cause it has more possibilities like it has the pads and TREC, Step Sequencer and Jupiter 8 Engine.
Trec is CRAZY. But don't sleep on the Fantom. It has heat under the hood too!
In those two keyboards which is more modern sounds and rhythms have for EDM ???
I'd consider Roland for edm before montage. But to be honest either could do the job. But for me I'd probably reach for a Roland board first if I was into EDM.
@@JuliusDeBerryJr Thank you bro
Favorite key bed out of the montage m , fantom , and nautilus 88? I only tried the fantom 8 and own the nautilus 88. Prefer a lighter touch so the nautius works really well for me ... and it has a fortepiano! ( Historical piano predesessor ) cheers!
I got to say, I am perplexed. The final drawdown came to the price. I get price is important, but I am missing the point how you can get 2 Fantoms for the price of Montage M. The brand new Montage M8x was sold by Guitar Center yesterday at the price of $3,824. At the same time. Fantom 8 could be bought for $3,399. That's less than $500 difference. So how is it 2 Fantoms for the price of Montage M??? And if it isn't the price, then what? I don't get the review that says: both are great, buy what you can afford. That's not really an A to B review, as far as I understand. Price is certainly a factor, a big one for most, but it can't all just come down to price.
Yeah for many it will come down to price.
But it's not really the place of the review or vs comparison to make the decision. But the goal is to provide the pros and cons of both from my perspective... This gives the viewer the necessary information to be able to make a decision.
If I was a viewer, I'd want someone to inform me that one option cost significantly less and allows me to still achieve my musical goals.
I did mention though that if price is not the deciding factor (someone else's money), which decision I'd make and why.
I stated that if I'm spending my money, I'm getting a Fantom and something else... Lol.
Pricing statement is based on the current market TODAY. Fantoms are available used and that is and should be a valid and helpful determining factor when making a decision between these two instruments.
The review covered way more than price. I think significantly more than that was covered.😳...
But splitting hairs is splitting hairs. Preference is going to be a huge factor.
Remember though my statement was if I was buying one of these keyboards TODAY,....
AND the day this video was recorded and edited, I could have bought 2 Fantom 8s for under 5kish. And I still can today. 😂
I got my montage for a pretty crazy price, but the majority of the people I know that have one paid quite a bit more than I did.
Where exactly can you get a Fantom-8 for half the price of the Montage M8x?
I paid 2k after tax for a Gem mint Fantom 8 in July.
I just have a thing for finding crazy deals on gear. Always have. I got reciepts to show it. 😂😂😂
You earn it.
If Yamaha allows people who don’t own a Montage M to purchase the VSTi version what would you be willing to pay for it? Given the cost of a comparable VSTi bundle that covers the same territory, would $299 be too spendy? Hopefully it wouldn’t require a subscription.
Interesting question. I don't think 299$ would be too bad from some perspectives. Roland just charged $200 for an upgrade that would probably be seen as significantly less in total than the entire montage m engine.
With that said 150$ would be considered cheap and would sell tons. But also, probably slow down sales of the hardware a little.
I wonder if people have the keyboard and then sell it, if they would still have access. Or if the keyboard would be some form of dongle..... Which wouldn't make sense. I think it will be interesting to see how the make this work.
Or if even a pre-owned keyboard will have access. For free.
Thanks for the review it is good to see that, I have Fandom sense 2020 which I love, I think you forget the connectivity part for both keyboards
Thanks for the feedback. You are right, I could have mentioned the connections. I LOVE the Fantom XLR connections. I can put that down for part 2. Lol.
It was getting long, so I knew I'd have to leave a few things off.
Was he talking about the Fantom 8 or Fantom 08 because the Fantom 8 is only 500$ cheaper than the Yamaha montage m8x
Talking about the Fantom 8. And I was indicating that based on being able to get Fantoms in the used market. (Availability vs the lack of them with the mx / m series.)
Edit from German in English The update of the Roland Fantom expands the software, which means it is completely open for the future. The expansions are primarily intended to help the user with the patches. There are a lot of them. The sound is generated directly by the sound generator. I am very happy with it. There is a lot to learn and understand. However, I have the feeling that it is easier with Roland...
I wish there was a translator so I could read your comment
@@JuliusDeBerryJr yes moment please, my English is Not perfekt. I Translate whit software, moment please
@@JuliusDeBerryJr i have finish, translate
Thx!!! Hope all is well!! 💪🏾💪🏾
i bought the Fanton 6 a few weeks after it came out, a year later i wenyt to turn it on & the screen was all white & the keyboard never loaded up again, took it to the shop & they said it would be $1700 to fix it, i owned the fantom rack before & sometimes the screen would get fuzzy to where i had to turn it off & restsart it but i did buy that one used, but my fantom 6 i bought brand new.... all i can reaaly say is i never had issues with my Motif Rack or the MOXF or the MODX, never had 1 issue.... but i do love Roland sounds..
That should have been an EASY no brainer, no questions asked full warranty coverage repair.
What ended up happening?
How could these two synth benefit from each other, if you own both?
Maybe by sampling the Fantom into the montage?
Use the Montage to control the Fantom. For aftertouch AND polyphonic aftertouch.
Use the Fantom sequencer to trigger external parts/sounds from the montage....
Compare the sequencers for producers????
It comes up. But not in super detail. Surface level. I have just gotten into the montage sequencer.
But as a producer who is interested in both boards, I think you will enjoy the comparison.
@@JuliusDeBerryJr okay cool.. Iam getting the montage m8x , better sounds and and updated sequencer from the last montage.. I always loved the montage but the sequencer was lacking so I got the Fantom. I have the motif es8 which was the best sequencer ever. The xs and the xf was also great
@@JuliusDeBerryJr the sequencer of the Fantom is actually good but the problem I have is the limited polyphony.. when I started to do automation and control changes everything started to cut out… pay all this money for stuff to cut out I might as well make all my production on fl studio with a midi keyboard…
@@MIKEMOKRONOS The sequencer on the Montage M is the same as the original Montage. Which means that it has 16 tracks, but tracks can't be edited--only replaced. It's not very useful in practice
@@geoffk777 when I bought the original montage the sequencer was garbage… they took a long time to upgrade it.. I was impatient and bought the Fantom 8… the update of the sequencer maybe be good now… I was the first to buy it so at that time they didn’t pay too much attention to the pattern sequencer… I was fed up!!! The sounds where great and I loved it.. so I know the m8x is a total beast!!!!
Disagree on the keyboard action. I’m coming from the RD-2000 with the same PHA-50 action of the Fantom 8. I’m very happy with the GEX action of the M8x with a tweak to the velocity curve. The OS/UI changes and sub display on the Montage M was the deciding the factor for me. Not sure how you get to the Fantom 8 being half the price a M8x? The Fantom 8 is selling for $4k and the Montage M8x is selling for $4500. Trades and discounts notwithstanding, the variance is 11% not 50%
I paid 2k for a like brand new Fantom 8. ... This summer. I've seen them in the 2-2.5k range consistently.
Fantoms are available used and you can't find the montage m like that (at this point).... So I factor that in. 2 years from now that cost factor will have shifted. Maybe even in a year or less.
Source? The best Reverb deal on a mint, used Fantom 8 is $3k. If I could find one for $2k, I’d be in. Thx.@@JuliusDeBerryJr
Just have to look.... There are definitely deals to be found. But even at 3 vs 4500... That's approximately 34% off...
But there are at least 2 Fantom 8s for sale RIGHT NOW online for 2500$ or under.
Wait a minute, the Fantom isn’t $4500 so your math is wrong. It’s $4,000 worst case, at $3,000 it is 25% and you are comparing new in box to used.@@JuliusDeBerryJr
I know what is available and what I paid.
I was saying the MONTAGE was 4500$. And I was comparing is to the 3k that you said the cheapest Fantom 8 was.
The roughly 34%ish price difference was in reference to the new montage vs the used Fantom
So my math is correct. And yes I'm comparing new to used. The statement in my video didn't mention new vs new. Just what a person could find the keyboard for.
The comparison I made is accurate and correct.
As stated. I know somewhere RIGHT NOW this exact second where you can get a Fantom 8 for 2500$. And another for 2k. This is not super abnormal at all. But also not common. But if you look and are patient, deals are out there to be found.
Have a great weekend.
I'm confused. I thought they both are around the same price. That's $4500 for Montage and $4200 for Fantom.
Hey don't be confused. I think I said used Fantoms, if not, it been discussed heavily since then in the comments. Some people agree with the perspective and some don't. 🤷🏾♂️
At the time this video was posted there were no used MONTAGE M boards really circulating... You could get Fantoms. That was the current situation at that time, so that's the perspective the statement came from. Probably still holds somewhat true today though. .
I got my Fantom 8 for 2k after tax a year ago. 💪🏾
Two things to keep. Excellent reasoning and logic. Two things to change. 1) all this video is one sentence, please stop from time to time. 2) an "uh" is not punctuation, it adds to continuity. Anyway, if I miss something I use subtitles or replay. But, check what you can do.
When I purchased the Fantom I thought , this is how the perfect midi keyboard can be built , a very expensive one , I was very disappointed with the old Rhodes samples and other sounds and I found out that Roland has a global master sort of compressor that makes the sound fat , when I turned it off the sound was very weak , in the rehearsal room it sounded bad in comparison to the Nord wave 2 , now I am using a Yamaha Cp stage piano and Logic Pro for iPad plugged right in and it sounds a lot better with great organs ect 😊
The Montage M would give you everything you need based on what you are doing now. All of the limitations & lack of great sounds you need, are all there in the Montage M. Pretty much everything the Yamaha CP has, the Montage M has and much more...
So you don't like the Rhodes and EPs on the Fantom?
@@JuliusDeBerryJr a lot of them sound really good , it’s not the sound , I mis som velocity layers in the midst and top , I think Roland could have developed on them over the years in that regard I like switching between soft and hard and like to hear som barking all the way up , I had the real thing for many years and the only company that have done I well in this regard are keyscabe by Spectrasonics but I Guse it’s a problem for Roland cause more velocity layers cost more memory ….😊
What about the SCREEN freezing ???
???
The montage M8X definitely has a lighter touch than the old montage. At first I didn’t like it. I thought it limited my expressivity. After playing it for a while I realizd that there’s something about the mechanism that’s far more sensitive than in the old montage and that sensitivity makes it more expressive than the old montage. I now find the touch of the M8X to surpass any other keyboard I have played. Add to that it’s superb, polyphonic, aftertouch, and I don’t want to play anything else.
Regarding price, Sweetwater’s price for the Fantom-8 is $3999, and the price for the Yamaha montage MX is $4499, clearly not double the price. When you said that montage was 2X more than Fantom, were you referring to Fantom-08 which is $2149 at Sweetwater?
No sir. Not the Fantom 08. I would never get the two mixed up. At the time of the video (in context) you could get Fantom 8s for 2k give or take. Which in my opinion is valid. New or used people making a decision that day could have gotten significant value from a Fantom at about half the price of the Montage. Now that there may be used Montage M boards on the market we can compare used to used, but comparatively, you can STILL get the Fantom for far less.
On the Facebook groups people actually say that the Montage M8x keybed is the best they have ever tried, and these are guys who played the Motif and original Montage before that.
Lastly now the montage M user memory is like 10 GB ! ouch makes the 2GB on the fantom shared with models kinda stingy but alas its older tech. Luckly only samples i use are lo-fi as heck and take kilobytes :0
Why do you only use lofi samples?
@@JuliusDeBerryJr but to answer your question if im using more realistic stuff ill just use my pc for the most part , to me the fantom pcm sounds like an anime soundtrack but im into that heh
Kronos is still #1 for live use workflow.
💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾
I have the Fantom 8 and I make crazy hot beats on it.. using all 16 tracks with pitch bend and automation I come into problems with polyphony.. if Iam making a simple track I won’t have a problem … I had the original montage but the problem was the sequencer more worse than the original motif es which I own . The sound in the motif and montage is definitely going to be superior to the Fantom… I have those type ears that can tell… iam going into Sam ash to sit down with it for a couple hours to determine if this upgrade is going to fit perfectly with my production…. I us fl studio with a mouse and keyboard and it can handle 500 tracks without no polyphony problems, no glitches, no problems….
I don't even have the Montage M, and have a Montage (classic), but I've NEVER had a note drop ever and I do heavy layering and sequencing using all 16 PARTs. Polyphony was the reason I was advised to go with the Montage over the Kronos in 2018 (by the people on the Korg forums), because the Montage always has additive polyphony and I make good use of the both FM-X and AWM2 engines. Most synth type sounds I can do better on the FM-X engine and have them sound as close to the original analog sound as possible, but sometimes make it sound even better than the original... The original Montage basically has 256 notes of stereo polyphony, or in Roland speak it has 512 notes of polyphony (mono). The Montage M has 800 notes of mono polyphony!
@@vertigo0105 800 polyphony is what i need!!!!! like a said, the fantom is great for me, but for production it sucks if your using alot of instruments....
Do you have some external midi devices that you can use to supplement voices in the Fantom? That way you can still benefit from the fantom sequencer and workflow but don't have to make all your sounds come from a single source?
@@JuliusDeBerryJr definitely , I know how to work around all this stuff… Iam coming from the days of kurweil 2000 , m1 and Roland xp 50… I was playing in bands on tour… but my gripe is that you pay all this money and you still have these problems… I use fl studio along with the Fantom so I am a okay… I can do 16 tracks with sometimes with no problems.. it’s when I start to do control changes and automation it’s when the production starts jumping and cutting out…I guess I pushed it to the limit and it starts acting up.. for the most part I have no problems. It’s the best since my motif es 8….so when I go to sam ash tomorrow I will determine if it’s the right fit for me… or I might just keep my Fantom and get the montage m8x… depends on how I feel ….i haven’t downloaded the ex yet but I’ll do that soon….i have over 300 beats on the Fantom so it’s crazy!!!!
Wow 300 is alot! That super cool! It's all about the music man! At the end of the day, this tech mumbo jumbo that we get hung up on doesn't mean much. Instruments forever have had some form of limitations. Learning the work arounds are what makes your workflow unique.
Montage M VS Fantom EX
Polyphony Montage: Winner
User sound sample management: Montage: Winner
Sequencer: Montage M :Winner
DAW integration: Fantom: Winner
Arpeggio: Montage M : Winner
Virtual Analog Engine Fantom :Winner
AWM2 VS PCM engine Montage M : Winner
Acoustic voices Montege M : Winner
Synth voices Fantom :Winner
Montage M sampler: No Roland Fantom Sampler: Yes
Montage Editor Software: Yes (Waveform Editor, performance Editor etc)
Roland Fantom Editor Software : No
These I disagree with:
DAW integration: Fantom: Winner
Virtual Analog Engine Fantom :Winner
Synth voices Fantom :Winner
Montage M sampler: No Roland Fantom Sampler: Yes
The Montage M has phenomenal DAW integration, as I use Pro Tools for all advanced level Sequencing, ARP creation and Sampling, but it also comes standard with Cubase for free!
VA Engine, the Fantom did a great job with the ACB Jupiter-8, but it's quite limited and I don't believe it has the secret weapon that the AN-X VA engine has on the Montage M (Poly Unison ... ck it out!)
Between the AWM2 and FM-X engines, I can do any synth sound as good or better than the Fantom does. Actually I can pretty much do it all using the FM-X engine alone. Many people don't realize that FM-X can do almost any analog synth sound as good or better, and not just do the typical Fulltines, Bells and tinkle sounds that many associate with FM-X. With the AN-X added, it just provided additional layers and texture on the Montage M, so there is no way IMHO that the Fantom is better at synth sounds than the Montage M
Regarding Montage M as a sampler, they provide SampleRobot free with the Montage and there are easy ways to get it working on the Montage M, MODX & MODX+. It is state of the art level sampling software that allows you to do all the loop points, but also create numerous layers and export to a library file.
The Montage has a 16-teack sequencer, but tracks can't be edited, only replaced. The Fantom Sequencer is much more useful in practice. And the Montage can't create user sample, but the Fantom can. I also think that the Fantom has a more useful panel.
But the Montage definitely wins on acoustic samples and probably EPs. So if internal sounds are most important than I'd go for the Ysmaha.
that statement about the tracks not being able to be edited... only replaced. That's very interesting.
@@vertigo0105 I meant the Virtual Analog engine advantage for polyphony. ACB also has Poly Unison, but so do all Zen-Core VAs and Model Expansions. ACB is only 8 polyphony, but with the help of other Zen-Core VA and Model Expansion, we get additional polyphony. ACB Jupiter 8 Poly Unison does not reduce polyphony, so 8 polyphony remains 8, but other Zen-Core VA, Model Expansion Poly Unisons already reduce it. You can program sounds using Zenology Pro and import those sounds into Fantom. True, Zenology PRO is not free. I haven't had any luck with the Montage M AN-X yet, but knowing Yamaha's work, the AN-X motor is definitely great. When it comes to programming, the two synths are perfect for that. Montage M's second display and buttons are definitely good things. In the future, Yamaha is planning a Montege M Plugin version, with which we can program sounds without hardware and then import them into Montage M. As for the sampler, the Montage M doesn't have one, but the Sample Robot is a great tool for sampling. I know because I have one and use it. . Regarding DAW integration, I chose Fantom as the winner because it already supports almost all major DAWs, which are the most popular. Ableton, Logic Pro, Cubase, Studio One. It supports them in such a way that I can program everything on the Fantom display that would otherwise be required on the computer. These DAWs all have their own programming interface, which I can use on the display. You don't even have to touch the computer. The review I wrote didn't make Fantom the winner, but Montage M. I personally don't use a DAW, so the Fantom's DAW capability is not important to me. I bought the Fantom two years ago because I had a Yamaha synthesizer (Motif XS, Motif XF, then MODX8) for more than 13 years. I missed that after all these years there was still no Virtual Analog engine, so I was aware of what I would lose and what I would gain if I sold the MODX8 and bought a Fantom. I know MODX8 is not a Montage, but its knowledge is almost the same. Fantom provides lots of cool Virtual Analog engines and a Wavetable synth, but the acoustic sounds are horrible. External audio sample handling is horrible. You cannot create your own arpeggio and can only handle one arpeggio at a time. The sequencer is limited to 64 measures and cannot be used as a linear sequencer, only for clip-based sequencing. There is no editor Editor that is important. Montage M is supported by a number of software such as Waveform Editor, Sample Robot, etc. Now that the Montage M has a Virtual Analog engine, and the fact that the AWM2 engine has been further developed in such a professional way, and that the external appearance has also been changed, I really like it, so I plan to buy it and sell the Fantom. So Montage is the winner for me if I consider the full capabilities of the synthesizer. Fantom gave me good days and moments, but the update was just adding more extras and minor improvements, but those that would be important to me were still not added, so I waited patiently, but I decided that Montage M would be better for me. Comparison was written only so that those who do not know the differences were given a little information.
Montage M very FM and VA the best! Fantom e Nautilus no good!
I posted this on the Yamaha Musician forum. (Read down) Here are some screen shots of a few experiments of the noted voices. You could do this alone on the M8x for years and never get bored.
You can see so many options for Poly AT and why this is so much better than not having this option.
You can even set curves for the response or custom curves etc. It's endless and well worth having the option rather than not having it on the M6/M7.
I suppose CAT has these options too but when it changes all notes it's not really useful. For example when playing the ANx or EP you really only want a note or two to go out of tune or modulate and not the entire chord or voice. These subtle nuances are what makes sound interesting. Vangelis would agree because whether it's a marching band or orchestra the various detunes, bends and slides that are accidental or intentional are what give sound life.
The parameters are many, the curves are vast, you get (4) total parameter changes if you want, you can apply these to different OSCs, it can be dramatic or subtle, set the ratio amounts, etc. and it's endless and fun which is most important to me.
If Yamaha added a randomize PAT function with one press you could get stuff you might never have thought about.
The M8x is dare I say "revolutionary" being 45 years of age but because it's now implanted in a modern flagship affordable synth with unlimited parameters. It's pretty special being built on the Montage platform plus everything else they have added and that is coming. Sorry to the M6/M7 crowd as I was one of you but this M8x is the way to go until the others get the "x" upgrade.
Whether you have the Fantom with endless add-ons or Korg etc. they can't touch the M8x because of this feature. It doesn't matter until they can catch up with an offering. This is the only synth available that can be the "entire package" so for now it reigns as the supreme champion IMO. I have real deal analogs too and this ANx gets close enough at times I can't tell the difference.
One unusual item I noticed using the PAT curves is you have to remain above the horizontal axis line (at the beginning of the curve) like in my photo #4. When you select a curve or move it below that axis the PAT effect plays even when not being activated. Sort of defeats the purpose of PAT by definition. I suppose Yamaha realizes this but anyway I keep it above the axis. It's probably the polarity as they call it but you can experiment with it to taste or expectation.
Most of what we've witnessed on CZcams is ANx modulation which is fantastic but it goes miles beyond that. I wanted to see what would happen when I caused a "random" detuning in real time of an AWM2/FMx EP voice. I'm actually causing it but when random notes dip or detune within the phrase or chord suddenly it's a new instrument to play. Traditionally you'd have to remove your hand from the keys to roll the pitch wheel and then everything detunes. Not anymore with M8x superiority! This is arguably the greatest music synth ever made considering the value of it too.
Hard for me to give the M8X the nod based on polyphonic AT alone.
@@JuliusDeBerryJr No but PAT/GEX (expandable BTW) added to everything else you mentioned puts it way over the top. Roland won't be able to match it until the Fantom2 comes out. Now if banging out notes on regular old dead static keys like so many other synths these days is what matters then the M8x isn't for those people. Once you turn on PAT and activate its parameters on every voice in the M8x it's another universe whole other level of wow. Vangelis even said without PAT you don't actually have a real instrument.
Lol. Wow. Yeah that's marketing at its finest. A board comes out that finally has it, and now nothing is a real instrument unless it has it... That's wild.
It's a good tool for sure, but that's heavy. Kronos/Nautilus recieve it and so does Fantom... And respond to it... Just nothing from it's direct keybed.
With that said, there are other board that have had POLY AT for a while, where do they sit in the spectrum ?
@@JuliusDeBerryJr That's the essence of what he said back during the CS80 days because expression like with real acoustic instruments change in real time over time. On/Off key switches can not do that to individual notes. So he's comparing that acoustic instrument ability that traditional keys can't do. Osmose does it even better.
It's pretty clear that Roland panicked over the release of the Montage M. To make their customers pay $US199 for the competitive EX "upgrade" seems a bit rude though.
😢!!! Why do we have to pay 200 for upgrade … they don’t know how to treat customers
I think paid upgrades to an extent make sense. They also gave 4 expansions for free. You have to consider that. I wouldn't at all say that they don't know how to treat customers.
I doubt it kid
@@beesting6135 Yeah, well I don't, "son".
Yeah they didn't really have a need to panick. Their keyboard was already out. And doing well. Seems like you couldn't even get it because of backorders for a very long time during and after COVID.
How did you reach the conclusion a Fantom 8 is half the price of the Montage m8x? A new Fantom 8 is $3999, a new Montage 8 $4499. That's a $500 difference. Unless you're talking about a used Fantom, which is not a valid comparison
Used (at the time of and prior to the video for sure) AND IT IS VALID. Consider this ... The bottom line and whole point is the availability of the gear and its features... Not it being used or new. If I can get something used that is as good or better (in some aspects) of something new, then it being used or new means nothing. I just want to get my hands on the best thing available or the best thing that I can afford. In this case a used Fantom can definitely sit at the table with a Montage M (a Kronos can too). If it's available at a lesser price, then hey ...😳🤯🫣😉😲🤔😬
And FWIW, it's not a widespread price to see Fantoms at half the price of the montage, but they are out there. At least they were .... Probably even fewer and more far between now, but it doesn't change what was. Hope this extra explanation helps! 💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾 And thanks for watching the video and your comment ! Both are much appreciated.
That's only temporary. In a year's time or even less you're going to see second hand Montage M's, and then what? The question is, given they are more or less the same price as new - how do they compare in sound, keyboard action, features etc. What would you chose if you could get them for the same price @@JuliusDeBerryJr
@bateimidrashnetwork great response. But that's another video. Today at this moment, we are here....
2 things to consider:
But just for the sake of conversation, if the montage drops in price so does the Fantom.
In a years time, we could also be looking at another flagship from Roland or Korg...
A whole separate set of comparisons to consider.
The video talks about the comparison of them... Just not which one I'd pick over the other. I like them both for different reasons all together.
It would be a hard decision if I had to pick one or the other with money not being factor.....I think I was clear what I'd do if money wasn't a factor though.
Aye randy j will not buy a keyboard if the after touch lol and i get that it's very important but does it have channel after touch also for the m8x?
Yeah man. Randy gotta have aftertouch. And I feel him!!!! Completely !
I never got on with the original montage , the fantoms workflow is much nicer . The ex expansion is very much worth it. I prefer Nord for pianos and dx pianos . No one keyboard sadly can do everything I also have a nautilus and Kronos but not using them live at the moment . I have never had polyphony problems on the small or big fantom as diligent programming gets over it.
@Keyboardnut99 the new montage is sweet and I think I'll get the 88 key 61 fantom just cause the fantom has aftertouch problems which is very important for what I try to do
I agree with everything that you said in this video, except for the pricing, Fantom 8 is around $3900, and Montage m8x is $around $4500, so the price difference is technically around $500
I have no idea how you came up with this conclusion that you can buy 2 Fantoms at the same price of one Montage m8x
But as you mentioned, Fantom is an amazing tool for composing and music production, and Montage is a very great thing right out of the box for a solo performer.
Because I ME. I paid 2k for a extremely MINT (LIKE NEW) Fantom 8. And I could probably do it again, if I tried.
There were two available at the price I paid when I got mine this summer. I could have picked between the two.
There are used Fantoms available right now.... Not so much with the Montage M.
Hope that makes it make more sense.
@JuliusDeBerryJr that wouldn't be a fair comparison then,since you are comparing the price on a new item with a price on a used different merchandise, happy Thanksgiving anyway!
The price is the price. I didn't say anything about new. Value is based on cost. And today you can buy a used Fantom MUCH easier than you can a used Montage.... So what I said is extremely valid.
You can buy a used Fantom and get as much out of it as a new Montage.... That's worth talking about.
Thanks for your input and you also have a Happy Thanksgiving!
Used price could vary for either so it doesn’t make sense to compare used price for one to a new retail price on the other one. You should put them on the same stage (new) for a fair comparison in price.
I'm very aware of what things are selling for.
Find me a used Montage Mx for anywhere near the price I've mentioned and I'll do another video addressing the info and change my pricing stance.
You won't find it. I think you guys are missing the point. Which is fine. 😅😅. But I'll try to help you out a little more ...
If I was comparing the montage M to a keyboard that was not available new any more.... Would you still have me compare it using a new price ? The fact that the Fantom has a new price that is closer to the new price of a montage m, is COMPLETELY irrelevant. Lol.
The point is that you can get Fantoms USED at a SIGNIFICANT PRICE DIFFERENCE than a Montage M (even a used one if you want to be technical)...
Bang for the buck, a used Fantom is hands down the better buy. Without question or hesitation.
Thanks for your feedback, but I still stand on my statement.
Again, find me a used Montage M for anywhere close to the prices I've mentioned and I'll do a follow-up video based on your information. I will also mention your name when I quote and site you and give you credit for the find. . 😊😊😊
PLEASE COMPARE WITH KORG NAUTILUS 😟😟😟
The Nautilus is a Kronos from 2014 only with a worse panel and screen. I's astep below either of these two, although it does have some good points, like add-on libraries and workstation features.
I disagree with your statement "If aftertouch is important to you do not buy the Fantom." I love aftertouch and have no problem using it on the Fantom. In fact, on some keyboards I have issues with aftertouch triggering when I don't want it to because it does not take much pressure to engage. I ended up with a Fantom 7 EX and MODX6+. While I am very happy with the combo I will be watching closely when Yamaha releases the Montage 6MX with poly-aftertouch. But for now, the Fantom 7EX is my forever keyboard.
you think there will be another version of the montage m 6 & 7? interesting....
you can change the setting to make aftertouch not as sensitive on most keyboards... but it's a known fact that the aftertouch in the fantom is not really usable in a realistic way.
Based on the latest Montage model designations, and the fact that the "x" is left out of the model for M6/M7, I do believe this leaves a possibility of future aftertouch options for Montage M6x/M7x. It could be perhaps the keybed design would have been a holdup for this year's release. For synth style keys, this future option would be good for the market. If they don't release one, no harm/no foul. In my mind this also leaves lack of confusion, in comparison to what Roland did with Fantom vs Fantom "0" model designations.@@JuliusDeBerryJr
Did I catch that correctly that you said the Montage M costs twice as much as the Fantom? I assume you mean the Montage M8x vs the Fantom 88?
If so, I'd agree the price difference was huge
The prices I'm seeing are that the Montage M8x costs $4,499.99 regular price, and the Fantom 88 cost $3999.99. No where near twice as much. But maybe I missed something?
Basing it on being able to get a Fantom 8 in the used market at a pretty significant discount vs the new price.
Of course to some that's not a fair comparison... But if you can commonly find used montage M, I'll glad used a used price for the montage too...
But you won't find that.
You have to factor in that the Fantom (even though it came out 3-4 years ago) can compete with a Yamaha montage in so many different areas.
If someone is considering getting a Fantom (like I was), why not go after a mint condition used one at 2,500$? Or even 2000$ (price I got mine for).
I'd without hesitation tell someone to grab a used Fantom before buying a new montage. And I firmly believe a patient and smart shopper could get a Fantom + something else VERY NICE for the same price they'd pay for a montage. ...
I stand firmly on that statement.
Does that make sense? I think maybe I should have mentioned that in the video...seemed like common sense considering the current new price. But guess I was wrong. I wasn't trying to be misleading but based it on my experience.... Totally.
I can currently get at least a few Fantom 8s for the same price range that I got mine this summer.
@@JuliusDeBerryJr After I posted I noticed someone else had mentioned the same and your response.
I completely understand your reasoning, and it makes sense as I too buy a lot of things 2nd hand, but as you said....you should have mentioned that in the video.Maybe consider editing it to add a mentioned of "buying used".
The Montage M is a brand new items, so there aren't going to be too many used ones around as it's hot and just came out.
Not really a fair comparison as you explained it in the video, but if it had been explained, then sure I totally get it and wouldn't disagree the price difference if buying a used a Fantom would be pretty significant.
It's not that the Montage M costs twice as much or anywhere near twice as much. It's $500 more. But the Montage M is new, and there must be a fair amount of disappointed Fantom users if they are commonly selling for 50% off on the used market. Although, I'm aware the used market for things is often all over the map and if you are very patient you might find a good deal.
I personally love MODX6. Very light weight, very compact and reasonably affordable. It has all of the regular Montage sounds. I think the Montage strong point against the Fantom is the acoustic instrument sounds.
For my Montage M upgrade, I'll go with the VST. Yamaha has mentioned it will be out in Jan 2024 for anyone wondering. Finally we get a VST from Yamaha. My light weight MIDI controller I gig with (even lighter than the MODX6 if you can believe that) has aftertouch. I'm able to run most of the Fantom engines as VST's on my laptop. The most affordable setup, the lightest weight setup, the most powerful setup (VST's cover more sonic abilities in terms of sound engines than anything) Win, win, win. I'm more about lead synth & organ sounds than piano, so I don't need a huge 88 key keyboard in my typical rig.
There is no way to edit the video now that it's uploaded.
I think people are missing the point though. I would figure that anyone that even put a reasonable amount of thought into is (vs the the few that have tried to prove me wrong) would know (without doubt) that the Fantom is not selling new for half the price of the Montage M.
The complete and total point of the statement was to show that for almost half the price (or even close to half the price) you can a Fantom and achieve great results compared to the price of the Montage M. ...
***Assuming I'm comparing new to new, that's the problem. ***
And like I responded to another person who left a comment... Even if we don't drop all the way to a price of 2k and stayed withing a more "normal" used price range of 3k, it's still approx. 35% price difference.
Point is, you can get a Fantom for SIGNIFICANTLY less than you can get a Montage M, and won't miss much, if anything as far as music creation is concerned. There are some variances between the two boards but I discuss them in the video.
Hopefully the statement makes guys look around and make a best bang for the buck decision... Ultimately, that was my goal. 😊😊😊
Thanks for your input and feedback. I love to discuss the videos with viewers. I'm glad you all watch and want to talk about the things I say.
Fantom Ex rules !
No, it's quite limited. You can't even use the V-Piano and the ACB Jupiter-8, nor the Organ engines at the same time. Deal breaker!! And the polyphony issues, also a deal breaker. The Montage has no issues with Polyphony, I can't even make a note drop if I try to. So the Montage M would be that much better on polyphony than even the Montage, and all 3 engines can be added and played at once with full additive polyphony!! Plus I don't think the ACB VA engine has the secret weapon that the AN-X VA has on the Montage M (Poly Unison ... takes the sound from 0 to 100, check it out for yourself, I'm not even exaggerating).
Yeah that is not kool.
Seems to me - and ive heard this from several reviewers- that the sequencer and production/composer GUIs and workflows are still significantly inferior to whats available in DAW-land. I would like to be able to initiate and work on projects as much as poss, on the "board" (DAW-less) and only as late as possible then move the content to DAWland. But current flagships let us down. Wish manufacturers would focus on better firmware to address this.
Oh yeah . Compared to DAWs I'm sure it's much much much different. And less efficient/ effective.
I don’t think any Yamaha could be compared to any Roland keyboard, they only mostly have professional keyboards on their line. Yamaha keyboard disappoints sometimes. To many problems basically the preamplifier of most of them fails in less than 24 months 😢.
I use to have a Motif some times I have to open it to clean the keys for the touch response not working or some keys playing much more harder than others. I went to festival where the sound engineers refused to work with my Yamaha making noise and buzzing noise 😢.
That happened to me in more than 2 festival since I refused to buy any Yamaha or make any of the people I work with to buy them for professional usage except for rehearsal.
Roland is the best for me it’s an honest personal opinion.
Wow. Never heard about the preamp problem. And yes motif keyboards definitely have some pretty consistent keybed issues (broken also). I repair them and they STAY BROKEN. Lol.
Roland is dope. But so is Yamaha. This montage is different. For real.
@@JuliusDeBerryJr Good Luck., A Chevrolet will remain a Chevrolet even if they changed it to Cadillac it still the same crapy Car,... Period...
@do-majeurvii4659 but a Chevy in 2024 doesn't have the same problems that the ones in 2000 had. But if you got burned in the past, I can understand the hesitation.
@@JuliusDeBerryJr You right, those Yamaha maybe better now, the two instruments sound pretty good,.
Buy a montage M and add a Roland Fantom O and you’re in business. Granted no ex and Jupiter models or va pianos but you still get the virtual drawbars for the organ and a multitude of Roland sounds that can complement the Yamaha Montage M. Or you could get the Fantom and buy the modx.
That would be a nice combo!
You are secretly a Yamaha endorser in my opinion. It looks like you are unbiased, but I can tell you are not, sir. Roland always works the easiest and they have incredible piano's, organs, synth sounds, drums. Using a sequencer is always the easiest on a Roland. The keybed on piano's (88 keys) is always great on a Roland. And if the price is half that of a Montage, it's easy to see what workstation is the winner, it's the Roland of course, no matter what Yamaha endorsers like you say.
😂😂😂😂😂 this is the funniest comment that I think has EVER been posted on my channel. So thanks for the laugh. 😅.
Did you watch this video???? You couldn't have. .... Not and still so boldly made the statements that you made. Check it out and let me know what you think after you see it. 😊😊😊😊. Thanks
czcams.com/video/QHuMJnZwVGA/video.html
No keyboards can beat Yamaha that's all I use at Jaime parks productions
That's a very aggressive statement. What makes you feel like that? Meaning what would you use as reinforcement to back up the statement?
Only Roland Fantom EX has modeling technology for their piano sound! Yamaha piano is simply straightforward sample based. It never impressed me.. way uneven comparison between the Roland & Yamaha!
They both sounds great to my ears!
@JuliusDeBerryJr ,
Yamaha has good sounding sampled piano sound. No question. But it's lacking realism of string resonance, which only exists in Roland V-Piano that Fantom EX is including. All digital pianos are noticeable right away that it is digital. Except Roland V-Piano... Check out my latest video and hear it to yourself.
re the MONTAGE - Yamaha in future needs - for sure - to add a Piano Roll MIDI editor. As do KORG!
All hype
def not all hype. There is some hype for sure. But that's normal. No way, that it's all hype though.
And fm on the montagem is outdated, try fm8 from native instruments and see the difference,$ 179.
FM8 is the outdated only 6 operator version of FM synthesis of the original 80’s DX series.
Montage M series are 8 operators so there is no comparison in sound quality or editing detail with FM8. I use FM8 which is ok for DX style sounds. Montage FM synthesis is next level of warmth, depth and better expression in sound design.
I have my original DX7II-FD from the 80's plugged into my Montage 8 inputs, and have all the sounds converted and imported into the Montage 8 as well. They sound identical!! You will not find as good, as authentic sounding FM synth on the planet to the original DX7's as are on the Montage and Montage M synths. Even the MODX and MODX+ are better than other synths if you record them digitally via USB. Maybe you should actually compare and listen to the difference on the actual synths before making BS statements.
And you know Yamaha are going to develop and release new features and enhancements to the FM-X engine on the Montage M over the coming years. They had to focus on enuring they designed the new Console, screens, AN-X functionality/sound, AWM2 enhancements (from 8 to 128 Element waveforms per each 1 single PART), the PCM organ rotary effect, the coming E.S.P. (Expanded Softsynth Plug-in), all the extra highest quality piano waveforms, etc. FM-X enhanced is coming on the Montage M, it's just a matter of time!!
But I can make my FM-X engine on the Montage classic sound better and more authentic than any newer synth on the planet right now!
@@vertigo0105 you are in your own world between those ears. Nothing new about this all hype, fizzy filters and outdated dx7 sounds.
German Grand is not a supernatural piano it's a modelled one.
Thanks for your feedback!
Even the pads are boring.
Definitely a playground for a sound programmer. Have you gotten to sit very long with on?
On Sweetwater right now there's only a $500 difference unless you mean buying a used Fantom for half price which isn't apples to apples. The Fantom 8 is listed at $3,999. The M8x is worth $5,500 easy with GEX/PAT all day long. It's only listed for $4,499 and your dealer can get you $300 to $500 less if you get the right person. I'd get the M8x forever over the Fantom IF we're comparing only the 88s. Once you drop down to no GEX/PAT then they pull closer. The Fantom 6 is listed for $2,999 but not a correct comparison. I got my Montage M6 for the same price which I returned. The prices are essentially identical once your dealer gives you the discount on the M.
Nah. Apples to apples is having the unit. New vs used doesn't matter in the big scheme of things.
A good used Fantom will work the same a a new one.
IMO humble opinion... The object to to obtain the instrument.
Low miles/condition within reasonable range of each other, new vs used becomes irrelevant.
If I can use my platform to inform my audience options that would allow them to buy a used new generation (or even old generation for that matter) instrument for half or even close to half of what a brand new one cost, and lose little to no music creation functionality..... I'm doing it all day.
Not used vs used - new vs old...
Doesn't matter to me.
No different than if I was comparing the montage to the montage m or the Fantom 2019 to the Fantom G ...
If the one you can get used was as good or better, I'd without question make the same statement. You can get the old/used one for a much better price and be just as successful.
Just the way I see it.
Apples to apples apples to oranges ... Either way.
To me it feels like the development and evolution of keyboards has just stopped completely. Just sad. On the Yamaha the sounds is pretty much the same as they were over 10years ago. There is still no sympathetic resonance samples on the pianos on the Montage (nor the CP88 which is supposed to be Yamahas flagship stage piano), still no dynamic pedal noise, and STILL no believable B3 emulation. On the Roland the pianos is just extremely synthetic sounding, not realistic at all. On the Nord Stage (which I own) the pianos are alot better, but the keys are mediocre at the best, there is only possible to do one layer of sampling(no velocity swithing). And while the Nords B3 module sounds better than both Yamaha and Roland IT STILL DOESN’T SOUND LIKE A B3. This is a disgrace in 2023. Most VSTs are eating all keyboards for breakfast when it comes to soundquality, but is not nearly as gig friendly as just bringing lets say a Nord. I think the biggest problem for companies like Yamaha is that they try to put to way much into one board, and in the end everything is ending up sounding just OK. I know that every musicians need is different, but to me this would be my dreamboard: Basically a keyboard with a Nord Stage knob pr function hands-on design, but where the organ engine are alot better (including the church organ wich is horrible on both Yamaha, Nord and Roland), a synth section so good that I could leave my Prophet at home, a FM-engine as good as Yamaha. But as it is right now no keyboard will give me that combo….so that brings us back to VSTs….life is full of compromises.
I disagree. The new Montage M's new PCM rotary effect for B3 organs (from their YC keyboard), as well as the new waveforms, is as close as anything out on the market! And they changed the sliders to be pulled out same as a B3. Nord has a loyal following and wouldn't admit it, but the YC (and likewise the Montage M now) sound as true to an actual B3 if not more so. And the piano modeling effect for sympathetic string resonance and all other sounds is coming in a future update!! Yamaha already submitted the patent for it over a year ago...
Have you even checked out the latest version of the YC for organs or the new Montage M organs? This time they finally got it right, and didn't try to sound like a Nord (which isn't as close to an actual B3 as some think), but instead went as close as anything out there toward an true authentic B3 sound.
Do you feel like software development is still growing? Or didn't they hit a cap a while back? I just don't see what else we really want. I don't feel that the tools are the creative bottleneck at this point.
a 37' review of just talking without listening to the respective sounds is imho useless and boring
Thanks for choosing to spend your time listening. It is a choice.
There is way more to a keyboard of this level than the sounds.
With that said, this is also not a review. And it's not listed as a review. Nor is the word review even mentioned.
I have other videos that are on my channel for this keyboard that specifically cover the sounds. It's a multi part series called 5 sounds 5 minutes. It should be short enough for people with less time and need something quick. Each video is coming out every few days or so. There are 4 right now.
You are welcome to view and enjoy them. (Or not)
Here's a link.
czcams.com/video/S3e2m0zfH2Y/video.html
Thanks for your feedback.
Some people appreciate in depth information and comparisons about purchases that cost thousands of dollars. If all you want are sound demos, go to Yamaha's webpage. Or CZcams channel. 😊
@@JuliusDeBerryJr ancient Latins said “in medio stat virtus”, i.e. you can make coexisting both talk and sounds.
I am doing both. Just not 'always' in the same video. I do have sound demos to enjoy but this video was strictly for information (usage information, workflow, specs).
It's hard to satisfy everyone with a single video. That would be much easier if I had 14 subscribers like yourself.
I don't think you guys that drop the negative comments (that have nothing to do with the video subject matter) really understand what goes into making content. It's one thing to not agree and make negative comments in that manner.... But some of y'all are so critical of the smallest, craziest, insignificant things.
It must be easy to sit back with a single video on your channel and click on other people's work and criticize it. The funny part is the folks with the most to say, aren't doing anything at all to contribute to the community.
Again thanks for your feedback.
You could even say you would prefer some sounds in longer videos...
But calling my work useless is wild.
Think about that for a second.
I dont like the sound of the montagem, sterile, nice control surface, keyboard not as nice as fantom, fantom after touch is deplorable instead of expanded, should of made a new fantom. These companies are a joke., analogue way more character, even the pro 800 behringer sounds better than the montage m,
Whoa! Man really? Have you sat with one very much?
But I definitely appreciate this feedback. I hope you enjoy my video!!!! It's cool to hear someone not be in love with the Montage M. The dynamic makes for very interesting conversation.
Can't say I agree completely but still appreciate the input.
@@JuliusDeBerryJr it's in my studio .
@@JuliusDeBerryJr it's cool but it's 2023, listen to the rhodes pro vst, beautiful sounding. This should sound better in 2023, the nautilus sounds better the kronos sounds better fantom sounds warmer, nord sounds better, it's too clean and perfect. In a bad way. The motif sounded better. They went backwards.
@@JuliusDeBerryJr mines has a bad screen, it doesn't work, but I still can navigate some parameters. We have played and owned alot of gear over the years. Ears are very tuned, monitors very accurate, it sounds stale. Will analyze more but I think the cleaness is just not exciting. Sometimes close to perfect is not good in audio, needs to have rough edges.
Disagree, the original Montage did sound a little sterile but the M is on another level. I had the original Montage and now have the Mx8, you can make it serile if you wish but there is plenty of warmness.
This comparison is a waste of time , No keyboard is comparable to a yamaha keyboard
Yamaha made a great instrument for sure! Roland and Korg hold their own though. I appreciate your input!!!
@@JuliusDeBerryJr i like Roland and Korg to , i am now i have the korg pax5 and is amazing , but in the past i have Roland Fantom x and Montage and Triton and Yamaha always sound better tha is the reason for my comment but i like the 3 company .
lol, this guy calls flagship sampling and synthesis machines ROMplers? lmao
Do you know what romplers are? By definition?
- Rompler is defined as an electronic musical instrument that plays pre-fabricated sounds based on audio samples... Blending of the terms ROM and Sampler... 😉
@@JuliusDeBerryJr You are wrong. ROMpler is a musical instrument which only can play sounds preprogrammed into Read-Only Memory. For example, Casio CT-S300 is only able to play preprogrammed sounds. Roland's engine is sample-and-synthesis, which has its roots in classic subtractive synthesis, that is why with Roland you have separate LFOs, Pitch, Amplifier, Filter Cutoff envelopes for every layer of sound, along with separate Resonant Filter for every tone, powerfull FXs, PWM and Supersaw oscillators and so on. If you want to find a ROMpler from Roland, then watch for Roland JX-1.
@Acrimonious_Snake thanks for your input, but I'm not wrong. All of these keyboard companies have a ROM as part of their sound engine. All of the engines aren't ROM based, but a huge part is. All of them have samples burned to ROM. We can't edit the samples, but we can use the engine to manipulate them. There are some Synthesis based sounds, but some are also based on a rompler/ROM based engine. Thanks for watching. I appreciate the comment.
@@JuliusDeBerryJr So you don't see any difference between the JX-1 and the Fantom. Lumping all devices that have a ROM into one category makes no sense, you are simply mindlessly repeating fake “knowledge” from Wikipedia, even if it contradicts common sense.
I don't mindlessly do anything, ever. I don't have any idea what wikipedia says. If a keyboard has rom, then that's what it is. BUT that's not all to it. There's more parts to consider. Most of the keyboards that we're playing nowadays have multiple engines, of which one can be considered a rompler... Again, if it has a ROM it can be considered as such. For example any of the newer MPCs are samplers, but they don't have a ROM based chip to access sounds. Samples are loaded into RAM and then can be manipulated by the engine. A MPC isn't a rompler, its a sampler. A Fantom, motif, Montage, Kronos, Nautilus all have a ROM that can not be changed bc the samples are burned into the ROM of the keyboard and we use the engine to manipulate them. BUT they're also samplers bc we can load samples into the RAM and use the engine to manipulate the sound. AND they also have engines that are completely synthesis based and may not use samples at all. ROM nor RAM. Some of the keyboards are combinations and consist of all three. Others have a single of the three engines. What point are you really arguing? Again, nothing I say is mindless when I'm trying to support my perspective. What are you basing what you're saying on?
And the pianos are stale and bright in a bad way on the montagem. Filter fizzy at high ranges. Total scam. Nothing special except the new control surface, but $3500.
DAW Integration: Fantom
Polyphony: Montage
Extensibility: Fantom
Sounds: subjective
Usability: subjective
Value: subjective
What do you mean as far as extensibility?
40 minutes of talking and 0 sounds....
There are other videos of mine for the montage M with sounds. So, YEP... this video was 40 minutes of talking and information. And 0 sounds. 😊. Have a great day!
Who the hell came to hear you talk for 30mins. Play and let us hear what they both sound like.... Stopped watching after 5mins
Wow man .... Comments like this are wild. You have a lot of nerve. Smh.
Iv always been a Roland guy I did buy a Yamaha FX motif it’s a nice board but the Roland fantom in my opinion the sounds are way better Also the sequencer in the rolling is way more simpler and easier to get around in.
Phantom and Mod x
Thanks!
No problem!!!