How to wire A DIY Tesla 18650 Powerwall
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- čas přidán 3. 01. 2016
- FAQ:
1) Where can learn more about batteries? j35.us/DIYlithiumBatteryBook
2) Where can I buy Lithium Batteries j35.us/LithiumBatteriesDEC
3) Where Can I buy Solar Panels? Flexible - j35.us/136wFlexSolarPanl
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4) Where can I buy a Battery Management System? j35.us/Batrium
5) What motor does your VW bus use? j35.us/HPEVS-AC51-Motor
6) How do you charge your batteries? j35.us/Elcon-5Kw-Charger
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Products talked about in this video:
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18650 Holders j35.us/18650-spacer-clips
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Cell Fuse wire j35.us/1k-Ohm-resistor
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You simply need to teach series and parallel circuit theory.
I can visualize the structure instantly and I admire your work and the inspiration to be a nerd.
By the way, you are a genuine nerd and that is a compliment.
Great video! For some reason, when I commented on your last video, I was under the impression that you had the cells wired in series & parallel in these packs. Makes WAY more sense now. LOL.
Thanks for taking the time to make this video. Visual learning aids are awesome.
PS... you have inspired me to start harvesting 18650 cells to make my own packs. I've been haunting local battery recyclers for about a month now. So far I'm up to about 180 or 200 cells. :)
I'm thinking of using a 24v inverter. with a max of 200a draw. and a max of 1amp per cell . and move up to 1/4amp eventually. I'd like to get 12-24hr run time without a charge. in case of a emergency. thank you for being a great help and motivation to get this project going!
parallel cells don't need to be balanced as they are at the same voltage all the time
series cells have to be balanced as they can be at different voltages while charging or discharging or just resting
another good video thanks Jehu
+Eren Berberoglu ah thank you
Failing to balance individual cells is likely to result in shorter pack life but as long as the system is well maintained by someone who knows what they're doing a BMS isn't essential.
Unfortunately _most_ people don't know what they're doing and don't understand that overdischarging Lithiums is even more dangerous than overcharging them - especially if left on a shelf for years afterwards.
This is why thermal management of large packs is so critically important (automotive or stationary).
I work in a university computing environment and we get a steady stream of people coming through with swelling battery packs. The wonder is that there are so few fires.
NiMH are not much lower in capacity but _much_ safer. The problem there is the patent encumberence of NiMH for automotive use in the USA that's essentially stalled most NiMH research for the last 30 years. (There's a wikipedia article on this(*)). Some of the patents have expired but others are still in effect and have been aggressively used to keep NiMH out of cars (Toyota have encountered major problems with this, trying to keep the CA electric RAV4s on the road).
Don't forget: For best longevity, Lithium batteries should be kept within 30-80% charge range with only occasional excursions outside this envelope. The reason for that is that the anodes physically swell and shrink with charge state and eventually disintegrate(*). If you're building a powerwall it's best to trade off the size with this compromise and for automotive use treat 30% to 0% as emergency reserve.
Bear in mind that overcharging or overdischarging can both result in lithium metal being deposited inside the cell and if that forms in the wrong location, puncturing a seperator, you WILL have a localised heating problem and fire on your hands(***). Make sure you house your powerwall in such a way that fires are containable or you may void your building insurance.
(*) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_encumbrance_of_large_automotive_NiMH_batteries
(**) There's a lot of R&D going into combatting this and when you see batteries marketed with 10,000+ cycle capability you'll know it's essentially solved (there is some progress but the tradeoff at the moment is vastly reduced capacity compared to "standard" cells)
(***) The lithium crystallisation issue is also being worked on but is in no sense a solved problem, so the best policy is to avoid excursions below 10% or above 90% unless absolutely necessary and _never_ leave a cell stored in a discharged state unless you like fires.
I Wish all comments were structured like Alan Brown's here, Informative and pragmatic
Hocam farklı marka 18650 pilleri aynı paralelde kullanırsam deşarj durumunda düşük c deşarj değerine sahip olan piiler ısınırmı ? Yoksa aynı marka model pillerimi aynı paralel içinde kullanmalıyım balansı kaybetmemesi açısından ? Teşekkürler.
What a massive reply for the wrong answer. I agree with Eren Berberoglu
and jehugarcia, you dont balance ever cell!
Damn dude, just stumbled across your channel. Just watching this makes me feel smarter. I'm watching a marathon catching up. Firme ass samba. Allí te watcho. Keep doing your thing.......
Is there another GOOD channel that actually explains how
to make this? This guy is not good at explaining how it is done.
You are my favorite content creator. Your videos and vlogs are inspiring and informational. It's good to know that good forward thinking individuals exist in this world.
Love your project, nice DIY teaching, thank you!
Love your videos man keep up the good work.. knowledge is power
I liked the short history lesson at the beginning of this video.
I wish I found your channel sooner. I'm definately making a "powerwall" for a gapahauk in the woods this summer, charged by solar, heated on SMS activation by a bitcoin ASIC! xD
Hey, first of all thank you for making such DIY project. Its really cheap and I'm really looking forward to make it . I live in Bangladesh and its a developing country . People here need electricity very badly and the government is not working at all. I think powerwall is efficient enough to serve a full house here 24/7 with solar energy. We don't have many electronic devices in most of the houses. And I have to mention that please do not skip fast the important chapters. Thank you.
and finally it is much clear the idea after watching your very informative video in a short time... amazing explanation
Good job Jehu, KIS : Keep It Simple ;)
Greta work! Amazing info and LINKS! TY for taking all that time to do this. That's VERY much appreciated. Peace!
I like the Vlog/Samba hybrid video.
Thanks for explaining. Thumbs up.
Hey Jehu I've sent some pics of my solar lithium house in your Facebook chat please take a look when you have time. My parallel is 350s. Also Happy new year.
Isn't better to add balance cable leads to the last battery in the pack not the first? It seems that all the time first battery on every pack is going to dry out first and charge first. Or is it better to add balance leads to every battery with same cable length and then connect them all to balanced cable?.What is better solution? Thanks :)
Excelente forma de aprender un poco mas, realmente me motivaste a crear mi propia batería tipo Tesla.
Saludos desde Chile
excellent tutorial
Love your stuff.
That was a great explanation. I want to build my own Tesla Power wall and really like the way you explain things on your vblog. My question is what used laptop battery pack should I look for? Other vblogs show charts with LG, Samsung 18650 batteries as the best but most of the laptop battery packs I see on ebay are for IBM, Toshiba, Dell, etc. And buying 18650 batteries out right on ebay runs about 1.50 to $3.00 or more per battery and I don't know which of the ones are good? So which laptop batteries should I look for to get the good 18650 batteries and advoid the cheap ones that have lower capacity so that I don't waste my money? Thank you Jehu
Seriously, your videos are fun and very motivating. I'm attempting to convince my local Ham Radio & Electronics Club here in Australia ( GGREC ) in Cranbourne to build one as we are getting ripped off by the power account management company's. I say account managers not supplier as they are what I call " Bulltish " company's that don't actually do anything just take your money. They don't recognise that we are 'Not For Profit' and charge us at company rates. Well, that aside I truly enjoyed your vids and by the way. Your editing is so smooth, nice job. Keep up the great work, regards from down under.. :)
When your connecting row 1 and row 2 as you show here, do I need to wire every connecting point or can I use only the top and bottom in order to add up the Amps and keep the voltage the same? Or how many copper strips do I need when laying down a horizontal setup?
Sparks everywhere..until I watched this vid. Thanks!
I think your videos are great...you keep the topics light, fun and sometimes throw in some quirky humor which is a good formula to keep you viewers hooked. Keep up the good work.
As for the ignorant people that leave you unhelpful or moronic comments, I am of the opinion that you should just ignore them or leave them one word responses; nothing is better than watching someone like that self-implode from your lack of attention. When I started my electric vehicle journey, which included fabricating my own liquid cooled controller all I got was negative remarks from my friends. Now I zip around in a BMW i3 and those same friends have to tape their jaws shut as I whip that torque monster around town.
I would like to to ask you about your soldering of cells. I think I see you use more than one soldering iron at the same time to overcome the heat absorption of the battery. Is that correct? I am always worried about the violent nature of LiPo batteries when they fail. I am not an engineer and I cannot even say I am sure how these cells are constructed but are you ever concerned that the heat from the soldering guns could damage the edge layers of the batteries? I saw a few tack-welders for batteries under $200 bucks on ebay. Is there a reason why you don't use one of those? They look like they could easily be modified to create a handheld tacking solution.
I only wish I lived in your region. I would have loved to do some collaboration work with you. Keep on "Riding That Lightning"
Gaaaah you make me want to learn electrical engineering lol.
+Bevin Holder Cool
when you get a chance can you pleas give me your thoughts
Look into it. The stuff he's showing you is EXTREMELY basic when it comes to electrical engineering. And I mean EXTREEEEEMELY. I went into it and it was tough as balls.
youtube.
thanks you that really helped me to under stand how a 18650 battery pack works :)
I love your videos
I am so impressed. I love listening to your Vlog. I own a TESLA model S (P85D) and contemplating building my own Powerwall. However I have to come up with some Solar power. Any recommendations? or what would be a good solar panels. Where do you get your parts to build your cell for the batteries. I was thinking about sourcing my part through ebay. IS it s good idea?
Like your style.
Best wishes
those laptop cells have integated undervoltage protection?
very good video. Nice job explaining it. I will show this to my students I think it's very helpful.
Where do you find so many old laptop batteries.
My biggest problem is sourcing the material!
Thanks!
Thanks for the info. I am interested in making a solar charged battery system for a few devices in my home.
WHERE DID YOU GET THE HOLDER FOR THE BATTERIES... I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE CALLED BUT YOU HAVE THE BATTERIES SITTING IN THEM ON THE TABLE AND YOU TURN ONE UPSIDE DOWN TO MAKE IT A HOLDER BEFORE YOU WIRE THE PACK TOGETHER?
Awesome video, had a question. I’m starting to harvest cells. What size/style battery pack must I create in order to use this battery for future purposes. Like powering my home and solar charging.
Sets of 3.7v packs, or 12v, or 24v
I feel safer making 3.7v packs and wiring then in series later, but please let me know your thoughts
Hey I was wondering how long you let your 18650 batteries sit on the shelf to test the self discharge. Also how much of a drop in voltage you allow before calling a cell bad. For example I had a batch of cells tested and charged to 4.2 volts. They were left for a week and after that week they had all dropped by a bout 2 to 3 10ths of a volt. would you still keep these cells?
can you make another video showing how to solder this together with the fuses and copper bus bars exactly step by step?
Nice video! Just for the note - electricity can be and is produced by the renewables and can be CO2-zero in production, which is not the case for regular petrol.
Looking forward for the BMS video! Do you think you could also include the overview of the available BMS systems ? As a DIY enthusiast of a PHEV cars, it took me a while to find a good BMS that supports my battery pack parameters.
Good luck!
So I need some clarification. That big pack with the pink cells, is completely arranged in parallel with a + and - bus bar at the end, right?
So I could use 3 of these packs in a power wall for 12v, have one big BMS unit for all 3 packs then invert to 120v ac?
Thank you and God Bless you !
If you took a series of 4 batteries to make 12 volt (14.4 volt) could it be used on solar setup for power in place of regular batteries
Great job.
Hey Jehu I'm a big fan of your channel, in fact I liked it so much that I just finished binge watching the entire Samba series over the course of three days. You have connected a number of passions of mine, namely classic air cooled VW's and living in a more positive way in terms of the environment and how we interact with each other. I am a little bit confused about the end of the series and the 'Tesla' wall. It's cool to have some back up batteries and an inverter if the power goes out, but isn't the whole purpose of the Tesla system to save energy. Even if you install an inverter/charger, you will have a system that is less efficient than just using the 120 AC when you have a need for it. Without alternative energy input or a controller that charges only when electricity is abundant and re-introduces it into the 120 AC system of your house/shop when demand on the grid is high, it's really just a battery on the wall or am I missing something? Don't get me wrong, I truly love the videos and am inspired to start an EV project of my own when finances allow, however I would love it if you did a video on the source of the electricity that you use and what the actual footprint of it's consumption is. These are real issues here where I live in Canada where we are known for our oil sands projects and where right now indigenous people and environmentalists are being arrested for protesting the construction of North Americas next mega hydro dam, of which some of the output is likely to be imported to your state. Keep up the great work and I'll keep watching...BTW, I live completely off the grid with solar panels and a micro hydro plant running off a nearby creek.
Yeah all those are possible, buy and charge when it's cheap, use energy when it's peak rates. Charge using solar, use at night when no sun. Battery can be used in many ways
Where do you get the battery holders at (Black top and bottom)?
The last part is missing audio, if you didn't notice.
If I had four of the all parallel battery packs connected in series to make somewhere around 12 volts, would a regular 12v charge controller be okay to charge the batteries or is there a specific type of charge controller for these types of batteries?
Nice info
Great, can you help me to organise my ideas for a range extander for my c zero?
Thank´s
Quick question would you suggest using a glass fuse.5A to connect to busbar
Love your videos, if a cell in the center of your large pack goes out what would be the steps to fix that? It seems like you would have to unsolder almost the whole pack to get to one. Is this true?
the balancing isn't crucial in parallel setups like that but at the same time it is.
they're subject to varying resistance due to the inherent resistance in all conductors, essentially you'll develop hotspots if you have inadequate cooling.
the cells nearest the bars will be utilized more than the cells further from the bar. the resistance difference may be small but these are meant to be charged and discharged continuously. at the very least i'd run four packs and have a controller switch which are being used and in what order to maintain even wear.
@jehugarcia, Im trying to make a pack that will work with a simple 12 volt inverter, and Im trying to come up with a configuration, do I use the 3.7 volt rating and simple use 4 of them to make 14.8 volts or do i use the 4.2 and use 3 to make 12.6? thanks
What happens if one cell goes bad?
Does just one row go out? What is the quickest way to locate the bad cell?
Might there be a way to install components to make it simple to locate which cell is bad?
Great videos, thank you for your time!
For a 96v system, is there any reason you cannot use two 48v BMS's - one for the first 48v and one for the second 48v? I'm looking at building a 96v system for a racing kart so peak current is import (end of straight max rpm WOT), and I want to make sure it doesn't fail.
GOOD JOB
Hi. I just got a 18kg ups battery pack for free from work. It was used when the servers went down. Is this something i could use to build a powerwall type of device?
hi can i ask something please
for every x3 (18650) batts you get 22.2whr
one 12v 100amp hrs leisure batt = 1200whr / 1.2kw hrs
1200 / 22.2 = youd need roughly 54 batts to be equivalent to 12v leisure batt is that correct?
So if i bought the 18650 batts for £1, coupling, copper ect it would cost me around £70 YET the leisure batt would cost me £56 ... whats the advantage of the small batts please?
Also how would know if one of the small batts died, and how to find it?
All the best, thanks for your videos... theyre great
Hey, can you use RC batteries with a 3S bms in each pack to build a power wall?
Do you have LED lights installed in your VW so if you have to run them at night they use less power?
Yes
So when might i need to balance cells? is that for voltage or what? I'm not that naive about this stuff. but in this specific area yeah.
Hello there Sir, I have a little doubt here So for this type of Balance Cell connection do also required an BMS to charge and Discharge the Battery , looking forward for your reply sir , Thank you
balance wise, I think they meant when you connect multiple cells in series. How will you balance each parallel bank to the others! I have enough trouble keeping a 4S28P pack balanced, what is there to stop all of yours getting out of sync?
+Jorge Espinoza I have 3 packs i n use at the moment. all are different. 2 with new cells one is li-ion (50ah) 1 is lifepo4 (36ah) the third is second hand reclaimed cells from medical equiptment. though from the same batch they go out of balance within 2-3 cycles. I have a huge distrust or BMS units so I use an inexpensive lipo alarm to alert me to one set of cells going low. charge wise I use imax b6 or sky RC RS16 to balance charge them / from my small lead acid battery bank.
Jehu, what kind of wire/what gauge of wire do you use for for connecting the batteries to the brass bars?
@jehugarcia the pack shown in this video is wired completely in parallel? So that whole pack of batteries is just 3.7 volt?
Yes, 30 of them push my 3000 lbs car around for 100 miles
If you were to take 6 of your 150 18650 packs and combined them to make it a 24v battery that has 900 18650 would you need a BMS?
I do not know if its just me but do you have a clear shot of the finished negative side to see the wiring set up. I just see a lot of positive views. I do appreciate your video.
One Question - Shouldnt your positive and negative bus bars be on opposite sides so you pull the voltage evenly thru the batteries. With this pack setup, someone demonstrated more heat build up closer to the top the busbar as batteries were discharging faster than the batteries furthest form the bus bar.
I wonder if a diode tree can be used to keep multiple banks balanced.. without any EC chips... but still allow the banks to be in series.
Question! Around 6.35 in the video you show us the finished battery pack. As far as I can see you've got 20 cells in parallel and 7 or 8? in series. Sorry can´t figure this out, but there seems to be a fuse connection on both sides from brass strip number 7 and 8 (from the left). WHY? :)
for how long would this packs last, 2 year maximun, 500 cycles right?
is that 150 cell pack you showd just 1S150P? and then you connect several of these packs to get to your desired voltage?
Yes
Does the finished product need to be cooled in some manner to prevent overheating?
Question, I have a server rack that uses 4kw. We are prone to power outage in my area and at the point I rather conduct a battery array (like what you have here). How many batteries would I need to use 4kw every hour for a whole day? Thank you for your time sir.
+grimthereeper I think you would need 22 of these units. 13,200 batteries. If you could selvage at same rate, 30c a pop, it would be $4k + $1.5k for inverter and bits, a total of $5.5k. What about using a 100kw diesel generator? I see them new for about $20k, and used for around $10k. Do you have frequent 24hr outages?
hello thanks for your vids
i'm really interrested in doing such an installation at home ,
my main electric expense is heating i have 12000W electric heater (correct me if i'm wrong) i will need 2 6000w inverter in parallel to power my electic heater , but the prices of those is very high and relally reduc the benefits of such installation ..
is there a workaround to avoid a so big expense ?
No, you need a lot more for cloudy days, etc
a question , i was looking to build a power wall , though just for 250 batteries it's $750 australian dollars buying from USA shipping to australia, so roughly $1600 for the batteries (600 cells) the tesla power wall is $5000 aus dollars for the system with 10 years warranty, so im thinking with the time and effort i would be better of just buying one straight up , or what do you think?
hello, I hope you're ok, these cell are rechargable??, if you use this arrangement all the poles at the top are postive and down negative ?? If it were like that the result would be the same voltage like one cell and an amperage of the summatory of the all the cells right?
+diego velarde correct
but we are triying to get 12 V and in this arrangement we wouldnt have it, we would 3.7 V and a lot of current , or am I in a mistake?
correct
Thanks for this video.
But if all the batteries are connected in parallel then, how are going mount a 48volt inverter on a battery that's just 3.7 volts?
Hey whats the charging setting to charge that 12v power wall you have?
LA had one of the most extensive light rail systems in the world. Look up the GM/Standard oil conspiracy that destroyed it. :(
Hi, great videos!!
Where do you buy the black plastic holders for the batteries?
+Nikolaj Kjær Nielsen
18650 Holders j35.us/18650-spacer-clips
If I wanted to replace my 24 Group 550CCA lead Battery with 18650, how many cells would I need?
I understood what you were doing in the last video, but thank you for the update.
can you charge your car using (solar) with your battery or run a 1000 watt grow light for 18 hr. using your battery ?
Chido video bro, tienes alguno donde hagas la bateria???
Hi friend!!
I really like your videos!! but i have a very important question....how we can charge the batery packs? the schematic.
Thanks
Stupid question...do all the cells need to be the same mAh or does that not matter as long as they are all 3.7 volts? Also, how do you like the chevy volt...thinking of getting one.
Hello from Puerto Rico so thats one big cell of 3.7 volts and for to reach 12v i would need to make 3 or 4 packs of these and conect them in series but my question is if i connect them in series the watts hour will increase to?
Thanks jehu for inspiring me during this crisis!
+Emanuel E. Muniz Rosado yes you had watt/hours
Thanks jehu i will try to see you when ypu are here in Puerto Rico big thanks
Hey hermano, ¿cuántas baterías se necesitan para hacer la "Mega batería"?
Why don’t u make a solar battery pack to run a/c home now the California sunny day are coming and the electricity bill get hight sometime just to run a A/C
Question: I see many different mAh listings for 18650 batteries... is there a good reason (i.e. endurance /lifespan) why you are using 2200 mAh? I have seen listings for 6000 mAh 18650's....
I'm new to this so am looking to cut my cost/learning curve... any help is greatly appreciated!
Thanks for the information jehugarcia.I'm inspired to create a powerwall for the bus i'm currently rebuilding.In your explanation (12v system) you wrote 2 x 3.7 = 7.4wh without mentioning what this was ?? Can you enlighten me please ??
Watts = voltage x current, so his batteries are probably rated at ~2000mAh, or 2Ah. Watt-hours would be voltage x amp-hours, or 3.7V * 2Ah = 7.4Wh per cell.
Thanks Jack. I spent 8 minutes in the comments section hoping to find this info. You are the real MVP
Ques 2) Since your batteries in your battery packs are parallel, they can't over charge and can't be discharged to zero so they all last the same amount of cycles? Since some of these used laptop battery packs have been in use for years we can't be certain how many charge/discharge cycles are left?
Thanx for the video .. can ya help me out with a semi truck battery I would like to replace my batteries …
Hi people, Jehu, where did you get the fuses? what kinda fuses are those?
Where do you source the battery trays/connectors?
I have a question. If you are running 12v or 24v inverter, shouldn't your minimum voltage be 12v or 24v. I cant run my inverter under 11v
From my calculation you better use 7s for 24v if you want to use an inverter, because the inverter cannot usually handle the 18,x volt of your 6s when it to the end. Am I right ?