Sequels: After Dvořák's "New World" Symphony
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- čas přidán 28. 08. 2024
- The premiere of the "New World" Symphony in 1893 sparked a huge press controversy over what it meant for American (and other national) music to see a great composer write a big, serious, major work based, allegedly, on African-American and Native American melodies. Here are five responses by five very worthy composers, two female, one Irish, three African-American, and all inspired in one way or another by Dvořák's example.
Musical Examples courtesy of Naxos Records.
Great talk as these are wonderful works that you have discussed here. Hats off to Naxos for making recordings of these pieces, but shame on other labels and most major orchestras for not programming, playing and recording more of this music.
@@ThomasTVP They did and I have the Neeme Jarvi Chandos recordings, but it is not what I would call a comprehensive collection. The Naxos American Classics collection far surpasses the Chandos effort.
Also, Columbia preceded them all with the afro-American, and it's in the Black composers series box, which I have. But you have to admit, this stuff is largely overlooked on concert programs and remains relegated to mostly spotty projects here and there. These things should be regularly on American concert programs, but they are not.
Played the Price 4th Symphony with the Minnesota Philharmonic last year. There were even some fun moments in the 3rd trumpet part. Very cool.
It’s a wild story, too. Lost for decades until it was discovered in a summer home a few years ago. The part I played off of was engraved in 2021 and I sent it back with errata on the back! 😯
The composer R.Nathaniel Dett - also inspired by Dvorak - wrote a piano suite called "In the Bottoms", which has a well-known Juba Dance (the first time I'd come across the term). It's a great little party piece.
Wow, Dave, this is a great presentation. I have performed both the New World and the Beach Gaelic. Also have performed a work by Colleridge-Taylor. The Afro-American Symphony should be a repertoire piece by now.
Thanks again for a truly stimulating talk. To date I have heard the Beach and Still symphonies; I plan to listen to the other pieces you discuss in the near future. Good stuff.
What a splendid conversation. A subject I have only scratched the surface of, I am very much looking forward to going down this wormhole. Great talk, Dave!
Great stuff, again! Still was a very good composer, I like his symphonies very much, also the "Troubled Island" (one should give it a 2nd chance). The Dawson is also good, just not my taste of scoring. The Beach, well... I tried the "Gaelic" several times and got disappointed. Something's wrong with the finale. But that's me... Thanks for Florence Beatrice Price, she's new to me and she sounds interesting. I have something to listen to this weekend...
Concerning Dvorák: Other than the Hungarians, in the Habsburgian Austria the Czech have been considered as less valid; not for the emperor himself, of course, but for his civil servants. So, a strong nationalism arouse - you can find it also in literature with Hasek. It's very interesting that austrian composers often used hungarian influences but never czech. In my opinion, Dvorak felt this inequality and transferred his feelings to America: Like the Czech are growing to a true nation on the base of their own cultural heritages, the Americans can manage this also - that was, I guess, Dvoraks intention. And he was right! A great guy, indeed.
And here is my Dvorák 10th: It's Vaughan Williams' 2nd. When I listen to this work, I have the impression that London is the capital of the Czech.
A great presentation (as always) and I can hardly wait to check out some of these works! I am an old "country" (as in the early stuff from the 1920s and 1930s) blues fan. It is fun, even with my limited formal knowledge, to listen to some of these old recordings and hear the microtonalities (the storied "blue note" among them) of traditional African forms. I seem to recall a recording by the somewhat avant Soldier String Quartet that presented fascinating string quartet "versions" of country blues songs by the likes of Son House and Skip James.
... the LP was called "Sequence Girls" and came out in 1988. There does not appear to be a CD incarnation. The blues songs 'redacted' by leader Dave Soldier were "20-20" by Skip James, "Moon Goin' Down" by Charley Patton and "Country Blues #2" by Muddy Waters (one of the few artists who straddled the "country" and electric "Chicago" styles of blues).
UPDATE: Soldier and the SSQ did do more of these: ex. a recording titled "She's Lightning When She Smiles." Sorry for going on and on.
Fascinating subject and very relevant as said. All the music here (apart from the Beach which has always struck me, in it's conservatism, as competent but as dull as ditch water) is a real indictment of that absurd notion of the inherent superiority of European cultural models; It's just sadly surprising how persistent the idea has been! Interestingly in Still's 1st Symphony third movement, isn't there a reference to Gershwin's 'I Got Rythmn'?
Keith Parmenter I agree about Beach’s Symphony. Well crafted from a technical perspective, but I can’t see my way clear to finding it stimulating. Her work still deserves to be considered and performed.
@@AlexMadorsky Agree whole heartedly with everything you said.
Florence Price 1st Symphony reminds me of rolling prairies and early days of the wild wild west - thanks very much
I love both of her symphonies. Have played them several times.
Always liked the Naxos disc of the Beach Symphony very much and also a new disc by the Kaleidoscope Chamber Collective of her Piano Quintet.. You get the Florence Price Quintet too. Well worth a listen !
Whenever American orchestras start performing again, I’m hoping to hear some live performances of the Afro-American Symphony and other works by Black composers. A lot of maestros have indicated they are newly committed to programming composers of color, and I hope they make good on those claims.
Alex--I removed that rather offensive reply to your comment. Some people need to grow a brain.
Hi David, not sure if this was due to an upload setting but this video is only viewable in 1080p? I'm usually able to watch your videos at a lower quality resolution because the internet is crap where I live.
I uploaded it as usual. I will see what I can do.
You may need to wait a day or so for CZcams to transcode to lower quality options. Another tip is to use a downloader to watch CZcams (e.g. jdownloader is a good all-rounder which also allows to you to extract the audio alone), which is what I've had to do in more 'pastoral' settings
Great choices!
Great presentation! It just goes to show that good music is good music. Did I detect an inadvertent hint of Copland, too?
All those symphonies are quite lovely, especially the Dawson. I’m less sympathetic to the Beach, but it’s still a fun work to listen to.
But my favorite Dvorák 10th isn’t related directly to the “New World Symphony”: it’s the Ives 1st. It’s very, very amusingly Dvorakian! (And its opening theme is a very infectious ear worm. Just listen to it once and you’ll be humming it forever.)
Adriano Brandão interesting thought! Ives 1 has never scream Dvorak to me, but I’ll have to give it a listen soon and see if I can pick out some Dvorakian elements.
I have to say, I find Amy Beach's music rather strenuous and over-written. The Florence Price sounds to me like someone trying far too hard. Except for the Juba Dance, which is rather banal, it's the New World without the tunes. Still, however, is a great, underrated composer. I think the Dawson is a wonderful work, the best of the lot.
Amy Beach is corny. Ives comes out of New England too and blows Beach off the map.
I have listened to Florence Price Symphonies...a coupe of them
My " off the cuff" impression was that perhaps she was a student of Dvorak ...Though I dont think that was the case
Wonderful melodies in her 1st symphony
Thanks for listening. She was not a pupil of Dvorak.
Interestingly enough, 'Juba' means dove in isiZulu.