Skyrim - The Hidden TRUTH About The Silver Hand - An Elder Scrolls Lore Theory
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- čas přidán 23. 05. 2020
- In our latest Elder Scrolls video we dive into the details of Skyrim & discuss a potent theory concerning the origins of the Silver Hand, the infamous Werewolf Hunters & antagonists of the Companions Questline.
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The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim is an open world action role-playing video game developed by Bethesda Game Studios and published by Bethesda Softworks. It is the fifth main installment in The Elder Scrolls series and was released worldwide on November 11, 2011. The game's main story revolves around the player character and their quest to defeat Alduin the World-Eater, a dragon who is prophesied to destroy the world. The videogame is set two hundred years after the events of Oblivion, and takes place in the fictional province of Skyrim.
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Hey Guys! We are really happy you enjoyed the video and for those wondering about the armor mod mentioned in the video, the one that changes the Silver Hand appearence, here is the link: www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/30051 ENJOY!
I am more interested in whatever mod changed Riverwood as it did in the video.
What armour mod are you using?
Same and whatever dialog mod there using.
'Camelworks wants to know your location'
Hey there. What combat mod are you using? Your character seem faster.
Side note: Sinding is actually the most op character in skyrim as he was able to kill an immortal being known as a child
lmfao- he truly must be divine!
GLORY TO SINDING!
All Hail Sinding!
Sinding, our lord and savior!
XD
They seem so underdeveloped as a faction.
Very dissatisfying considering they updated werewolves for ther first time since tes 3 in this installment. Hell, Greymore even gives more vampires... which is all fine, but Bethesda had some serious opportunities here and they kinda blew it tbh..
Literally a group of bandits with silver weapons
@@cazhalsey8877 Skyrim was a massive opportunity that Bethesda kinda blew. Not fully but kinda.
Wish you could continue the quest line without accepting the beast blood.
Same as the vigilants
Silverhand: "Ysgramor would be ashamed of you!"
My *Altmer* Dragonborn who is not a companion, who skipped Whiterun entirely and was heading to Winterhold: Wha...?
Exactly, Ysgra-who? Lmao
I would. I like to play an Altmer once in while in ES games (Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim) as an alternative to my usual races (Breton, Dunmer, Orcimer or Khajiit). It's nice to switch things up once in a while, especially with mods that help give the various race more differences from each other.
I usually RP as a young aspiring mage who in initial appearances seems like the typical Altmer scholar but surprisingly doesn't have the typical prejudices of his race because he's finds being polite and nice tends to get him results much quicker and far less hassle. I also try to maintain a house rule of magic only when in combat.
@@Wildeye13 i'm boutta get the racism axe
@Nelih
1. magic as they're the best race for it
2. they're good looking with mods
3. the thalmor did nothing wrong, tiber septim was a cheater with a god robot who deserves neither worship or an empire
@@YuiFunami now that is a hot take while I don’t agree with you well done sir
Imagine in the hypothetical questline for the silver hand, gathering wuuthrads shards and reforging it but with a silvered edge. Making it deal bonus damage to werebeasts instead of elves and giving it a somewhat different appearance.
Replace the screaming elf face with a werewolf's beaten maw.
Too much creativity for bethesda
Well, on the mod I'm working on, the idea is just forge the original one.
No that's stupid we already have the rueful axe
Still rather kill elves.
It would have been really interesting to have a "Destroy the Companions" questline with the Silver Hand. What could've been...
Meh not really dont forget that the rest of the destroy quests are basicly clearing out a bandit camp with some interesting characters
@marcus24000 Could make it a series of quests where you take out high ranking companions in remote locations, like that time they ambushed the player and Farkas
@marcus24000 I think we can make a good story with that. Imagine set of quests to denounce the companion to the rest of skyrim, claiming they are not the real companion anymore, but some threatening deadric prince's warriors. Then we can hunt each member and in the end reconstruct the companion to it's original glory. And also with some plot twist that there are some people in silverhand that originally from the companion and decide to leave because the hircine's influance in that group.
I can see many ways this could grow as an interesting lore in skyrim
marcus24000 Uhm a lot of people will pay you to kill people so I don’t think that’s a great comparison
A Silver Hand questline would have so many cool opportunities. You could whipe out the Companions and then get a villainous reputation, you could only kill the Inner Circle and spare those who wanted to be turned back to humans and then kill the Glenmoral Witches or you could expose the truth about the Harbingers to Whiterun
Me: Can I join the Silver Hand?
Silver Hand: WHY DON’T START RUNNING SO I CAN STAB YOU IN THE BACK
Dying at this comment
Honestly I think it would have been great if we could have joined that faction with a story line.
@@mal35m i wouldve loved that
I was actually a little annoyed that Scott didn't mention they attack you on sight, like bandits. Regardless of whether you're a werewolf. That seems exceptionally thuggish.
Like, I agree with the theory, but I wouldn't call them good people by any means.
@@concentratedcringe That was more Bethesda just using bandit dialogue for everything and not scripting the Silver Hand as neutrals until you join the Companions. I see Hunters yelling at deer 'start running, so I can stab you in the back'
Vigilant of Stendarr: "You on't happen to have seen any Daedric activity in the area?"
Me just after turning back to normal from warewolf: "...Don't...Think...So...?"
"you know where I can get good bones around here?"
Me after doing multiple tasks for Dedric Lord's, eating corpses and becoming a werewolf: Nope.
this quote about "ysgramor would be ashamed of you" is legit i got it few times during my fight with silver hand
Same
Even if you didn't start the Companion quest line, not meeting or even hearing the companion at all. Lol.
Never heard it before.
Me too
I am going to try to hear it. I have never done so before.
I had something odd/amusing happen on my last Companions focused character. I had already completed the questline, and had Aela as a follower. She gave me a quest to clear out the Silver Hand from a cave, which I happily did. All the enemy NPCs in the cave were labelled as various Silver Hand enemies. After I killed the leader, I turned in the quest to Aela (who was with me). Immediately afterwards, all the Silver Hand corpses were renamed to various Bandit types. It really hammered home just how lazy Bethesda was with the Silver Hand. They literally just coded them to be renamed bandits during companions quests.
The game would have had to come out at like 2015 if they really took their time to hammer out every single quest or pretty much the game in general but deadlines really do be deading and lining tho
A username “deadlines really do be deading and lining” lmaooo
@@leb7663 if Skyrim came out in 12/12/2012 rather than 11/11/2011 then imagine how much more content would have came out, the Civil War had massive plans with the ability to recruit Giants, assassinate commanders, 12 radiant quests per Hold, massive sieges at every Hold, a Pit Fighter guild, several quests like the Whispering Lady would be finished, assassinating Elisif for Boethiah ect.
SunDaGamer_74 wait.... recruit.... giants?
@@c4llmeifigetlost485 yes, you would have had a quest to recruit giants, there are unused models that have giants in Stormcloak Cuirasses and a lot of abandoned disabled code relating to the civil war that Civil War Overhaul Redux unlocks
Me: "Aela, are we the baddies"
Aela: "Chill out and pass me salt for my bandit".
Me: "We have wolf heads on our armor"
@@roykennedy
@mareczek00713
We Compainons help the people of Skyrim, just because we are werewolves, doesn't mean we are evil or harm innocent people. Are we trying to black out the sun? Take over Skyrim? Fight the Dawnguard? Force our members to stay werewolves? No? Then stop with this nonsense and get back to work!
@@TheSwordsman100 It does mean you have accepted daedric influnce, and given up your shot at joining your anscestors in Sovenguard, because you wanted a cool fursuit that makes you marginally better at combat.
Bandits are tasty
@@TheSwordsman100 why would fight the dawn guard? Their vampire hunters. You are fighting the werewolf equivalent tho
Their hands aren’t made of silver, their made of hand.
This is only unforgivable lie.
The handhand
Exactly. Finally, someone who clearly goes to the cloud district often.
@@saijeetdogra9360 you've been drinking skooma, haven't you?
I like this type of person to think to comment this
@@yourdadsotherfamily3530 i like everyone who likes me, so you can be my first friend if you want.
I remember the first time I was introduced to the Silver Hands I thought "Doesn't that make them the good guys?"
If you wander across a Silver Hand location without being a werewolf or even met the Companions they still attack and try and kill you. But yeah, other than that they do seem more like good guys than the people who unleash a newly transformed werewolf in the middle of a city.
@@poilboiler because they are literally bandits with a name change, and actually I believe they do not spawn as proper "silver hand" until you joined the companions, I can see why your believe you are being attacked by them but they are just bandits that fill the locations until you join the companions
@@cefirodewinter9086 If you visit the old fort where you wake up with Aela after turning into a werewolf before you join it should still be full of silver hands, I think? The place where Skjor charged ahead and somehow left no trace whatsoever until you find his corpse at The Skinner.
Same with the later place Vilkas goes with you to reclaim the pieces of the axe.
No, it just makes the companions as flawed as anyone yet still overall honorable.
No, they imprison and torture people inflicted with the curse instead of just killing them outright. They've become monsters.
I always thought that the Silver Hand might be the good guys and I was disappointed that you could not join them or even reject the beast blood. They would have made a great playable faction and could even have been worked in to be allies of the Dawnguard or the Vigilantes of Stendarr. Another point that would support your theory is that a normal group of bandits or thugs would not willingly face such dangerous beasts for little to no reward. No bandit in their right mind would think that hunting werewolves would make them rich.
You CAN reject the gift of lycanthropy but You won't be able to progress in the questline. I sometimes roleplay as a Nord who would not trade his humanity for anything over the strenght of his sword arm so I leave them with their machinations and foul sorcery under the Skyforge and seek my destiny elsewhere
I'd imagine that if a normal bandit group got attacked by a werewolf, and managed to kill it with minimal casualties, they probably would've gotten confident about it. And if it happened more and more (realistically not very likely, but for arguments sake), they might start to actively hunt them after realizing that "hey, we're able to kill these terrifying creatures. Let's do it some more." And at least with AI limitations in Skyrim, its not like bandits will run away from you while as a werewolf.
I do prefer them being a splinter group of the companions more though
@@raduispas1992 interesting playthrough option.
Skyrim writing be like: companions good, silver hand enemy of companions, therefore silver hand bad
Will Swenson They still wouldn’t go kill more weawolves so bc they can though. Their is no reason but spite which doesn’t make since for bandits they want money
They were pretty underused in Skyrim.
For me one of their most memorable traits was how their Silver Swords sell for a pretty penny early on.
I usually keep all the silver swords. And any Redguard scimitars I manage to find.
@@KC-xu2yr Curved.Swords.
I wanted improved silver weapons the base stats suck
@@jjbourke92 Right.
@@johnsmert3361 It was disappointing not to be able to improve the silver swords. They looked cool though.
The Silver Hand might just be the reason there are so few werebeasts in Skyrim.
Werebears are supposed to be common there, and rightly feared, but there are none to be found in the whole province by the time of TES5.
Considering what they do when you encounter them on Solstheim, I'd say it's for the best that there are as few around as possible.
First time I encountered them there, I was rushed by three of them on the shoreline
You can find some in random encounters they are just rare
@@dbreid903that's the only place I have found them, and I jumped in the water, they followed me, all got stuck, and I just chucked Elemental Blast at them until they died. 😂🌕🐻
Dragonborn: Becomes a Werewolf
Citizens Of Skyrim: *Your Difficultly Has Increased To Nightmare Mode*
(Laughs in EnaiSiaion's Growl.)
@@Wildeye13 HAIL ENAI
I don't transform so...
@Jake Shattuck if you kept the vampirism, what would you become when vamp blood mixes with beast blood?
William Blazkowicz there is a mod for that but if you have someone change you it cancels out the other.
I must've heard of this theory years ago and had it stick with me, because I forgot this was all just a 'theory'.
I apparently retconned it in my own mind that the Silver Hand was, in fact, a split off from the Companions.
I'm having an existential moment right now. Feel like I'm on the verge of achieving chim
im having the same problem. thing is i keep thinking i learned it from dialogue in game... im freaking out man.
@@foxmcqwerty608 Not just me? I always thought they were former Companions too
I = we
we = I
Just remember to achieve Chim right!
@@JXEditor and they say there is not "I" in "team"
It's also interesting to note that when you go to cure Kodlak in the Tomb of Ysgramor, Kodlak in his spirit form points out that the room you meet him in containing the Flame of the Harbinger is actually filled with the spirits of many of his predecessors who are hiding from Hircine as well due to their tainted spirits.
I have actually heard the line "ysgramor would be ashamed of you" that line made me become a priest of talos and restoration after finishing the companion quest line and cure myself
"The circle uses their werebeast powers with reasonably responsible manner" With of course the exception of Skjor and Aela.
Hunting go grgrgrgr
They hunting strategy is doggy style
Honestly I don't think they go out during the nights to hunt. They go out to, you know, "sate the fury of their inner beasts"
@@rogehmarbi question is this supposed to be an innuendo?
(I'm asking because I don't quite understand your comment sorry)
@@streakgaming6106 Deliberately left ambiguous. One conversation between Aela and another companion hints that said companion thinks Aela and Skjor are dating secretly which Aela dismisses. This seems to point towards a werewolf only pastime of hunting at night (whether beasts, bandits, or Silver Hand is unknown but likely beasts). Also, there doesn’t seem to be any restrictions against relationships within the Companions so no reason to hide a little nookie.
Imagine the story of a man, his family slaughtered by Daedra tainted beastlings, his years of struggle against those same monsters who are hailed as hero's in their hall of Jorrvaskr. When he slays one of that kind he takes a trophy. They call him The Skinner.
That is so fucked up and I love it
@BlazedKnifeBladez Maybe you could make that build.
This is amazing and should be in game.
Once you realize the companions are monsters you decide to flee and run into another Silverman group where you are taken to their leader and you learn his backstory.
Skinner, I barely know her.
Good background to add. And his best friend is called Fjol. He is more an scholar type, and dedicated his life searching the pieces of Ysgramor axe.
Absolute tragedy Skyrim has been out nearly a decade and we havent had a Silver Hand faction mod!
The reason there aren't any Silver Hand mods is because, from a modding perspective, the Silver Hand don't really exist. Other than a few specific npcs, they're just bandits. Creating a mod where you could join the Silver Hand (for example) would require fundamental changes to the way Skyrim is built and the game engine doesn't like it when you change things.
Skyrim isn’t even nearly a decade old, it’s nine years though.
@@josephseed6098 A decade is 10 years, so 9 is pretty close.
Sean B. Oh, shit yeah! I’m sorry! I get a little caught up in that stuff, sorry!
Sean B. I thought a decade was twenty years.
I’d totally buy into this if it wasn’t for the fact that the Silver Hand attack you on sight when you get near them, regardless of whether or not you’ve even spoken to the Companions.
Well, they are pretty much bandits. They are just bandits with a special grudge against the Companions. So while you can't say the Companions are good the Silverhand are pretty much what is wrong with Skyrim. A million little bandit clans everywhere stealing from honest folk. There are seemingly more hillfolk willing to gut and plunder you then any other kind of person in Skyrim.
They may very well have been started by a schism in the companions, but that was several hundred years ago and imo they've degenerated into thugs with a particular hate of werewolves. I play with immersive creatures mod and that adds lots of encounters to the game not just animals/creatures but people too and I've actually see Vigilants of Stendarr fighting the Silverhand. That's not to mention that the Silverhand will attack you on sight whether you're a werewolf or not.
I think this is mostly the result of recycled assets. The Silver Hand enemies are literally bandit assets with a specific name and equipment distribution.
Pretty sure that’s just lazy gameplay development.
@@blindoutlaw i thought that - soo lazy!!!
My biggest problem with this theory isn’t that the Silver Hand looks like bandits, but that they act like bandits. Approach them without becoming a companion/werewolf and they still turn hostile. Sneak through their base and you still hear them saying the genetic bandit lines (eg “That brat ain’t mine” the line about getting the good skooma, ect.). As an avid roleplay ever, I’ve just never been able to justify sympathy for them, despite wanting to in Dawnguard playthroughs, for this reason. They may be more than just bandits, but at the end of the day they are still bandits through and through.
That said, I have a solution to this problem, and that’s just to embrace it. You said yourself that the companions are just glorified thugs: why can’t the same be true of their splinter group? Silver is expensive, and if they’ve been pushed to the fringes of society by the companions of yesterday then why not take up banditry as a means of funding their operation?
I feel like that's just the result of rushed or lazy coding, though. I feel like if the team had more time to flesh them out, they wouldn't be renamed bandits
there is no reason for a Dawnguard player to not want to be a Werewolf. The Dawnguard ONLY care about vampires. Isran left the Vigilants because all he cares about is killing vampires- he doesn't care about daedra cultists or werewolves. That's why he formed the Dawnguard- to fight vampires and only vampires.
Plus they imprison and torture people afflicted by the curse. Just kill them and be done with it, don't drag it on like a monster.
@@Iron_Stigmata Okay sure you can say that but 99% of in game evidence says they suck and are basically bandits. Wishful thinking doesn't really change anything, you have to jump through so many hoops just to come to that line of thinking that it shatters the reality of the world.
They can be ex-companion whatevers but good guys? Come on, if they were meant to be more they would be, they have faction coding so they could have made them their own faction but didn't, what did they do? Made them bandits, why? Because they were ment to be glorified bandits -_-
@@Iron_Stigmata
You can justify anything Bethesda does with that reasoning, though.
At the end of the day, Skyrim is a crap RPG. A fun game, sure, but the roleplaying aspect is crap. It requires numerous fan-made mods to overhaul this, and allow the player a choice.
Otherwise, you're *forced* to be the dragonborn, *forced* to join the Thieves Guild, *forced* to do every quest the game just inflicts upon you, rather than allow player choice.
Wanted a quiet first visit to Markarth? Well sorry, Todd Howard has shat on that dream, the Forsworn murder a woman and Endrys will pursue you for all eternity forcing you into the Cidhna Mine quest with a fake "dropped note". You physically cannot say no to him. You either avoid him like the plague as you run around the city, or you grin and bear the quest even if it isn't what your character would foreseeably do. It's a perfect microcosm of Skyrim's disregard for player choice.
If Bethesda really cared for roleplaying, every aspect of the game would have been well thought-out, like CDPR did for Witcher 3, or Interplay did for the OG Fallout series. But frankly, they don't, and have been on this downward spiral ever since Morrowind. You can't chalk that up to resources, time management, or simple oversight. It's a deliberate design choice.
Their writers, people like Emil Pagliarulo, approach the game like they're writing a movie. The player has to do X, because it's in the script. Skyrim and Oblivion force you down the main quest line - you *have* to see Balgruf, you *have* to go to Weynon Priory - and narratively, the world will end if you don't. Meanwhile, Morrowind (an actual RPG compared to those) couldn't give a shit whether you go and find Caius Costades or not. A very quick and simple tutorial leads you out into Seyda Neen and you're free to go anywhere and do anything. Meanwhile, Oblivion gives you a tedious dungeon tutorial, and Skyrim does the same and more, trying to hold your hand as far as Riverwood.
*A year later edit* - look at what Larian managed with Baldur's Gate 3. Far more attention to detail and game design with far fewer resources. They don't have Microsoft behind them. Meanwhile, Bethesda churned out Starfield. What I said about them still holds true in 2024.
"The world is changed by actions, not intentions"
I'm stealing this.
Actions without intentions? What are you smoking, bro?
@@kiba3x Intentions do cause us to act but they are not mutually inclusive. A good intention does not always give birth to good actions.
Mainly because what is good is so damn subject even an actual God might have trouble defining the term.
Regardless the quote holds true. Intentions in and of themselves are meaningless , accomplish nothing , and change nothing.
The quote is true but that doesn’t mean we should judge and condemn someone base on their actions though, only their intentions.
@@joshuavar4678 Something something hell, something something good intentions.
Joshua are you kidding me
It's funny how Farkas isn't even wearing the wolf armor when you first run into the Silver Hand.
in the base game yeah, can be fixed w/mods
usually when i play the companions quests he is wearing the steel armor before he transforms and then when he morphs back into a human he's wearing the wolf armor lmao
If you wear steel armour, that makes you a werewolf, lel
Yet they mention it
So?
The Silver Hand should get a big quest mod.
I'd be down for playing as a werewolf hunter! I already join the Dawnguard when i play and there is a big quest mod for the Vigilants of Stendar so this would fit right in!
There are
Hey Felix. In Oldrim Nexus search with "Dawn of the Silver Hands -- Join the Silver Hands" for SSE or AE, search with "The Conflict Under the Crescent - A Companions and Silver Hand Mod"
It could be that the axe is like the jagged crown, taking it for themselves would grant the sliverhand legitimacy that they gave up when they left the meadhall
By the divines....I love this channel!!!
Only a fetcher wouldn't
And M O I S T towelettes!
*points finger and raises eyebrow* How many divines?
Hail Sithis
Eight or nine!?
Funny. I wanted to write "I've already accepted this as part of my head-canon years ago, because without it, the Silver Hand doesn't make sense", and then I flicked through the comments seeing that most of us came to the same conclusion. Bethesda, I hope you're reading these comments, you can learn a lot about what not to do with a faction!
I mean, I do like a bit of purposefully missing lore to keep things interesting (eg. I don't want the disappearance of the Dwemer to be fully explained, nor their reappearance, and I don't want to visit Akavir, either), because it gives a sense of credibility to it. After all, real historiography is full of conjectures and assumptions. But if you send an entire faction against the player, at least give them some background and motivation apart from "You werevolf, me live like bandit but me kill you".
I always assumed that was their intent. Bethesda likely planned to flesh them out more and just had to drop much of the planned content due to deadlines and budget limitations.
From my first exposure to the Silver Hand it was apparent they weren't simple bandits with a hate on for werewolves but was sorely disappointed they never expanded on that.
Makes me wish developers, especially for franchise games like these, would have more leeway with what content they wanted to include regardless of corporate interests like budgets and timelines. I mean, I GET it, but how awesome would Skyrim have been had the devs been able to deep dive into all the possible lore that they wanted to?
Bethesda doesn't exist anymore, dude.
Bethesda wanted to reach that golden deadline of 11/11/11 and it caused lot of cutbacks. They could have also add stuff to the game years later with a skeleton crew but they decided to relay on mods. Budget constraints and Bethesda? Don't be silly.
@@Dante-mr3rz
The whole 11/11/11 thing was a completely needless promotion stunt. I'd have understood if the number 11 would have played some kind of prominent role in the game, but that's not the case. All that did was cause a studio infamous for buggy releases to cut pretty much every corner in sight.
Me and my brother had thought similar on this. Not the Wuuthradbut part, the schism between the two groups over worshipping Hircine and forsaking Ysgramor (In the Silver Hands’ opinion). Heck, we would have preferred the Dawnguard dlc being about those two factions instead. Like if you had refused the blood of werewolf, a few days later you would get a letter sent from an anonymous person. You meet them at a local inn or tavern and go from there. Your decision between joining the Silver Hand or continuing the Companions as a werewolf.
The companions questline should have been like the dawn guards where you had the choice to join the dawnguard or the volkihar vampires. We should have had a choice to join the companions or the silverhands and if you joined the silverhands they would beat the companions and would take over their hall in whiterun
i would love it like that. The Companions are just a bunch of self glorifying posers without any real struggle to fight for. I'd love the chance to attempt eradicating them. At least this will give them a .. 'real fight' that they always say they crave.
At first I read that comment and thought "But the Companions all have personality, and the Silver Hand are just generic thugs."
Not realizing that Bethesda should have made the Silver Hand every bit as compelling as the Companions. Even the Vampires in Dawnguard get some time in the spotlight, and there is even a token good vampire. So yeah, it would have been a great idea.
i hope Bethesda take time to flesh out the factions more in ES6
What faction would you want the most? I'd kill for a Knight faction
Yes - and options for doing things differently once the player becomes the leader of a faction.
Tarlo The Boar Since the Aldmeri Dominion is invading, I’d like to see the Pelinati Cult be a faction. It’s usually unpopular because of its anti-elf fervor, but now, especially after ES: Legends, I imagine it would have a new cause and gain membership. I also want to see knightly orders, though I’m not sure how much of High Rock will be in the game. Evermore might be, which has the Knights of the Raven, I think.
only Death and also stop forcing use to interact with a guild to progress the story. if they feel the need to make us interact, give us ways that we don’t have to join.
They’ve had enough time
I wish there was a mod that would alter the Companions questline, so that you could join the Silver Hand as some sort of faction choice similar to Dawnguard.
I sort of thought about this while playing. On my first playthrough, I roleplayed as a nord who thinks wizars, vampires and supernatural beasts are to be eliminated at all cost. To the point where I only ever used restoration magic (mostly out of convenience since the game doesnt give you many options to restore your health other than pausing and shugging potions) but then when I entered the Companions quest my character was forced to question his outlook on the world.
I finished the quest and cured myself, believing my character would simpatize more with the silver hand rather than the companions but had grown fond of them. This made him realize that not all supernatural beings are evil which would make him go learn magic in the College of Winterhold, not only to learn how to find evil mages but also understand them. It was a bit of a character arc and this theory adds a melancholic irony to it that I love.
Here are my thoughts on this:
The wolfcurse is passed on in a ritual, where the new member of the circle has to drink the blood of a werewolf. It's not the glenmoril witches sneaking in the quarters of jorvaskr and bewitching the new members against their will or something.
So, if the companions really considered the wolfcurse a betrayal when they found out it was permanent, why didnt they just refuse to pass it on?
One could say perhaps it's because of Hircines influence, and that they did not really have a free will in this matter. But if this is the case, how could Kodlak, Farkas and Vilkas be able to overcome this influence and refuse to turn into their wolf forms and search for a cure? (after all, they did not even participate in the Dragonborns turning ritual)
For me it is obvious, that the companions actually enjoyed beeing werwolfes and didn't want to be cured, before Kodlak came.
But I'd also like to say, I don't know if this really makes them evil, since they dont seem to use their transformations to terrorize the people of skyrim.
The idea presented here is that there was a schism between Companions who WANTED to be Werewolves and Companions who did not. And that the Pro-Werewolf Companions won that schism and drove the others out of Jorvaaskr
I guess they didnt know how to cure theyre curse back then
Maybe because the Companion version of lycanthropy isn’t the same as the normal one that changes the person into a savage beast like Sindig. Per Kodak, beast blood was a payment for regular business with Hagravens and it didn’t destroy the Companions as savage uncontrolled lycanthropy would have.
All we are shown in game is that the Companions are generally honorable and don’t force lycanthropy on all the members nor do they use their beast blood for generally evil intent.
Ambjorn in the Dark Brotherhood is a former Companion and Circle member who was too bloodthirsty (as a person not beast). Sindig is a normal werewolf not totally given over to his beast side, still able to have a human form. All other werewolves we encounter, dead or alive, are stuck in beast form and hostile to all.
Thus, this makes the Silver Hand “bad” in their obsession with the Companions who, while having members that are werewolves, don’t appear to have the completely savage uncontrollably form and generally do good in Skyrim. Perhaps due to their jealousy and obsession with Ysgramor and seeing “tainted” Companions as an affront to his legacy?
Just look at Aela's example. She was practically raised "feral" in the wilds, hunting with her father until she was old enough to join the Companions and accept the beastblood that was essentially her birthright. For those like her, there was no higher goal in life than to attain this power, the ability to dominate and survive against all odds. And in death, no loftier an outlook than an endless hunt, a simple continuance of the glory they had achieved in life. "Good and evil" have little to do with it.
it is possible to be a "good" vampire or werewolf at least for a long time, with strong enough willpower and desire to do so, it's just probably not possible forever as I think your soul eventually is replaced by an evil daedra. knowing this a good werebeast or vamp could arrange someone to kill them if that happens.
I'd like to see an addition to 'live another life' for joining the Silver Hand. I've also seen a mod for starting as a Forsworn as well. Ironically I had just ran into one of the Siver Hand forts and was wondering why they attack on sight even though I hardly ever play a companion. and was about to check youtube for info.
KillerChopSuey i don't see anything recent for that mod idea. Do you know anything else that's more recent than 1+ years ago
@ImWelkinHere the Silver Hand is their own faction, it's how the Silver Hand is able to have their new armor and silver swords with the Unplayable Faction Armors mod. Otherwise every bandit would have their armor
ImWelkinHere they have the bandit AI, but they’re set as their own faction, like groups such as the vigilant
@Grainn Desu Don't try to tell people facts if you aren't even sure you're right smh
The people of Skyrim value historical artefacts a lot, that's why the silver hand wants to collect the shards if they rebuild wuuthrad before the companions they'll gain so much fame and power that they could reveal the truth about the circle and maybe get to take the companions out for good, becoming themselves the "New Companions" or the "Uncorrupted Companions" or something really Nordic like the "Ysgramor's sons"
Just like in the civil war, where who ever claims the jagged crown first will gain most of the popular support
"Interested in politics, eh? Well, grab a seat and get comfortable."
Hey that's a good thought actually 👍 that's at least got to be one of the main reasons, I always wondered how the hell they have not been exposed when there are werewolves randomly appearing/going on a rampage the day a companion is made a part of the circle lol... You'd think the jarl would say something to them or kick em out 😂 "it's just kept such a secret" yeah right like no one would spy on them and make connections...
You make a good point, but In the case of the jagged crown, The imperials didn't want it for themselves, they wanted it to legitimize Elisif as high queen. It would have been appropriately symbolic for either Elisif or Ulfric's cause. Wuuthrad on the other hand is kinda niche, and imo it would make more sense for the silver hand to want it if they do indeed have a history as followers of Ysmir
@@undeadwerewolves9463 My thoughts exactly. The Silver Hand go as far as to attack Jorrvaskr in the middle of Whiterun, yet somehow the Jarl/Commander Caius/Nazeem never find out about them being werewolves? Then I got to thinking, maybe they do know...
@@aintfalco7968 how about a group of companions who rejected and were disgusted by the deal and left forming the silver hand
I love that you covered this topic. I was playing through the companions storyline again recently and asked myself similar questions. An interesting observation in addition to the books is that all silver hand carry ingredients for potion of cure disease. As if trying to prevent accidental contraction of werewolfiness like happens with vampirism (although it doesn't seem to work or cure that way)
May be coincidence, but the Silver Hand only yelled "Ysgramor would be ashamed of you!" when I played a nord.
The idea of The Silver Hand being "the true Companion's" is something I've seen tossed around but this was the most detailed look into it I have come across. This "theory" really needs to be canonised!
Absolutely 👍
I personally disagree, it's not a horrible idea, but I just don't see enough evidence to warrant it. And I guess I just don't care for it, but that's just my own subjective opinion.
@@dorianrobinette9712 That's fair. We are all entitled to our own head canons
That dialogue with Kodlak looked almost cinematic
Cinematic?! NOT IN MY ELDER SCROLLS!
It looks weird though, uncanny. Particularly the lip movement.
They may be remenants of the Silver Dawn faction seen in ESO. The dawn were a knightly order, and may have fallen from grace in a templar-esque manner, It's remenants transforming into the werewolf-hunting bandits we see in Skyrim/
you gave me a new perspective into scene reading and lore, and it came at perfect time as i am about to start the game after a long period :)
I would be really great if Fudge started to link all those mods that he uses on his videos... Those armors and skins are awesome
For me I identified the Silver Hand as evil when they would always attack my DB without warning irregardless of the fact if I'm a Werewolf or not or if I'm part of the Companions or not.
Right.
I mean, is Steel Armor really only a Companion thing?
*Looks at Hold Guards, Bandits, Stormcloaks, and Imperial Soldiers* Hold up, maybe they're onto something here..
They are just assholes 😂
I'm totally not biased because I'm a werewolf or anything...
Undead Werewolves ......
That's cause bethesda are lazy programmers
Undead Werewolves No, they seem generally good. This shouldn’t even be a theory if everything connects, it should be fact. Anyway, it’s just the bad Bethesda programming.
Love this theory a lot! The hints throughout Skyrim of underdeveloped lore and story material is everywhere, and it's brilliant that you picked up the available pieces and really ran with it! I would like to posit that a contributing influence to the Silver Hand may have been the Order of the Silver Dawn, a 2nd Era group of werewolf hunters that got its start in High Rock. A theory I love is that the accumulated knowledge of were-beast slaying (if not a lingering member of the Order itself) made its way into the hands of these werewolf-hating malcontents (per your theory, a schism group from the original Companions), prompting them to arm themselves with Silvered weaponry - a weapon type found in Skyrim exclusively in the possession of the Silver Hand.
I always wished I could have joined the silver Hand, I like to play as a character who hates vampires and werewolves. I enjoyed siding with the Skaal in the bloodmoon DLC and I wish there was an option to turn on the companions when you found out the truth
I always hated how you have to accept the beast blood to advance in the companions. It makes it really hard for certain RP builds. Why would any Good character willingly accept the curse with no apparent cure?
Not to mention that Bosmer who follow the Green Pact are forbidden from becoming Lycanthropes and will often commit suicide if accidentally infected, rather than become shapeshifters.
Isnt the cure throwing a witch head in the fire after curing Kodlak?
Arian Mehana
Sure, but the point is that from your characters perspective in the game they have no way of knowing that when they become a Werewolf.
Good and Evil are a matter of perspective, also I like being werewolf yet I hate thieves guild and never join them am I good or evil according to your perspective
@@morrigankasa570 if you was roleplaying as a paladin warrior who fights daedric influence then you would want to join the companions, but then once you find out their werewolves you wouldn't want to, but theres no option to decline, your either forced to turn or end the story there
Standard morality or not, they willingly have a member known as "Skinner". That's not a morale high ground.
And the Companions occasionally send you on missions to beat up random people for no discernable reason. Some members also literally worship Daedra or at least tolerate Daedric influence over their souls. Just admit that both sides are scum who only live for blood and glory.
We also have to keep in mind that Sinding likely wouldn’t have went on his rampage had he not stolen Hircine’s ring. He had been pretty good with controlling his beast up until the ring caused uncontrolled changes to his beast form.
Headcanon accepted!
As a an old warcraft player, I always had issues with a group called Silver Hand being bad...I know silly.
Your theory hold great potential to me however and make sens! So thx you for this, make me see them in a different light.
If only we could have joined them to see the their side...
As someone who has barely played any Warcraft game, a group of werewolf hunters being exclusively villians is just disappointing.
They’re less “bad” and more the antagonists of a quest line. Protagonists don’t have to be good and antagonists don’t have to be bad. I love that Elder Scrolls games embrace this wholeheartedly. It’s more true to life.
@@noisykrickett7758 and in real life you also arent forced into joining only one side with no capacity to not be evil. at least, unless your a slave or something, but thats not the context in elder scrolls.
Fun fact; I have to remember the exact spot, but if you want to get out of white run without hurting anyone, you can use the sky forge area (again I’d have to play again to hit the exact spot but it involves using the sky forge) to jump up on the wall, and jump over, leaving the city and simply running off.
There is a group known as the Silver Dawn in ESO, who are werewolf hunters as well. Is it possible that the Companions loyal to Sovngarde, when split from the Companions, fused into whatever remained of the Silver Dawn and became the Silver Hand?
Or they just both use silver cuz its cheap and has an attack damage against all evil beings. Cuz they wield silver weapons they call them silver-something.
Its been said to death, but quarantine has been tough and i just wanted to say i really love this channel. keep it up
Quarantine, just as Hircine's "blessing," is a choice. Be a true Nord, or don't.
2:46 There goes Athis again always wanting to throw hands with Njada. People always wanna talk about iconic events in Skyrim. What about when you first enter Jorrvasker and were confused why those two were beating the sweet rolls out of each other.
I joined in the fistfight first time I entered. Killed every nonessential NPC in the area on accident.
They probably accidentally insulted each other and it devolved from there.
@@princessbinas I might see a bit of anti-elf prejudice seeping out - although Njada seems to be obnoxious to most any race you happen to be, even a nord.
These kinds of videos are my favorite from you guys. Well researched, extremely good story telling voice and engaging video editing. Keep it up 😁💙
Always great content on this channel. I never knew there was this much lore behind these stories. Incredible stuff!!
Fighting the Silver Hand was so weird to me. Yeah, the Inner Circle can control their beast forms so they come across as villains, but they are otherwise protecting people. It was a moral conundrum.
See my first encounter with the Silverhand was out in the wild well before I talked to the companions. So I didn't see them protecting shit.
Shade Nox I have been playing the game for all of these years and there are still things like that which have never happened to me.
Companions are hired thugs. They won't help or protect anyone or anything unless they get paid.
Fred100159 Yeah imagine beating up someone that has kidnapped a lady and attacks people on sight. Also if you say they are bad for protecting people and getting paid then what about the city guards or (in our world) the police?
Mitch Ryan No they are not. There attitude is that any werewolf regardless of if then are attacking people or not should be tortured and killed. That’s the attitude of a villain alright. Also don’t forget that even if you aren’t a werewolf and haven’t met the companions they still attack you on sight.
"You don't exactly see them hanging out by the side of the road asking for your money"
From Whiterun there is a river that flows down into the basin east of the Throat of the World. Following this river on the road past the standing stone will bring you to a bandit fortresses where an ancient nordic bridge connects two towers. At the base of the tower by the road there is a chair with a bandit who'll toll you for passing their hideout. The Silver Hand have a chance to replace this bandit location during the companions questline. :T
I'll never forget it because I was rocking around at level 50+ with less than 20 gold in my pockets and failed my speech checks to get by peacefully... So I just tore through the whole tower instead like some vengeful god
I’ve never had that happen to me once in my whole 9 years of playing this game, and plus I play with the Companions a lot. I reject the beast blood and they still attack me which is stupid but I’ve never had this happen. Which most likely means it isn’t true.
@@josephseed6098 I've had it happen to me as well, in my current playthrough of the game.
Hubertus Minerva I’ve never have had it to me once, which is weird... but maybe you guys have a bandit coding glitch or a mod err if you are using mods.
Hubertus Minerva I don’t play with mods.
@@josephseed6098 I doubt that the three of us have the same bandit coding issue if we're all playing without mods, which I still am since my original comment towards you. No mod playthrough because I'm picking up the achievements. I'd say you've probably just gotten really lucky/unlucky and not run into it.
I agree with your theory and the idea of joining the Silver Hand sounds really cool.
I only recently started playing Skyrim again after a few years break, and its quite shocking how underdeveloped the quest lines are, and lots of the factions and the Silver Hand are a great example of this. How cool would it have been if there was an equal quest with followers and gear as an antithesis for each of the major factions?
For the Companions, the Silver Hand. For the Thieves Guild,
the merchants/Temple of Mara/Mjoll the Lioness in Riften. For the Dark Brotherhood, the Penitus Oculatus. For the College of Winterhold, not sure...
As well, what if they had created alternate quest lines for some of the other underdeveloped factions. What if you could actually side with the Forsworn and take Markarth, making the Reach independent? What if you could side with Wolf Queen Potema, sacrifice Elisif to Molag Bal, chuck the Legion out of Solitude and set up the vampire lords threatening Morthal and other holds as jarls and establish a pure evil faction in the civil war? What if the merchants and Temple of Mara in Riften could overthrow Jarl Laila and Maven Blackbriar and establish an Italian-style medieval democracy that would side with whoever the Dragonborn recommended in the civil war?
So many possibilities, and there seems to be hints that some of these were originally intended (looking at the Thieves Guild) but never implemented because they rushed the game but didn't change the story to cover it up enough.
I never saw the Silver Hand as the “bad guys” just as my enemy. It does make sense to me why they would fight werewolves, I mean we go on killing rampages even not in full control. It would have been interesting to have the options to have joined them and changed the companions on a greater scale.
I swear what you're saying in the end of the video, about joining the silver hand and destroying the companions:
Thats QuestDesignLevel "Morrowind", in that game the quest were just soooo good - we could have had a faction quest like that in those old times. so much depth in everything. Shame the Questdesign deteriorated so much. Now it`s already noteworthy if you have choices like that in the main quest
It would have been far more interesting, and more of a dilemma to fight them, if they weren't depicted as or dressed like bandit shmucks in the game.
Love these lines of thought. Was there more to it? Skyrim is a great source of discussion. Awesome video
Your description reminded me of goblin slayer of all things, i literally watched the movie last night, but in the first episode hes asked well what if there is a good goblin? And he says well its possible if you looked hard enough but at the end of the day the only good goblin is the goblin that doesnt come out of its hole
This I a channel that every elderscroll fan watch
No matter how much time passes. Every time i see a Skyrim video, i feel the irresistible urge to play it again.
Good to see more lore. I am just returning to this channel as a regular viewer but I hope (Without checking) you have done some ESO lore because there’s hours of content to do and enough different sources outside of a single quest and dialogue to do 10-15 minutes on. Especially with how you deliver stuff in a relaxing fashion
Your load order is very nice. I love the dialogue camera. Very cinematic
For the record on the quote I have heard them shout “Ysgramor’ would be -“ and that is usually as far as I make it out before their death. I wondered what the rest of the line was. But I can semi-confirm it.
I think its "would be ashamed of you"
what enb are you using?
and can we see your modlist?
I second that, the combat seemed cool when he rolled and spun out the way.
@@drmadabd1389 the combat mod is combat gameplay overhaul. The armors and weapons were in a video from a couple days ago. The rest i dont know.
@@spas6433 a bit outdated, but eh, facebook.com/FudgeMuppet/posts/mod-list-mods-listed-here-are-active-for-the-skyrim-lets-played-featuring-izara-/880506715350351/
I think ist mythical enb with lighting
@@spas6433 Thanks friend :)
I love you guys and this channel. Especially when you do lore videos on the Dark elfs. My favorite race.
This video really opened my eyes. I always considered the Silver Hand as bandits with a fancy name, but it really makes sense that the whole thing is a civil war kind of thing.
I’m certain that we were supposed to be able to join the Silver Hand at one point in production.
I just wanted to say *thanks to Fudge Muppet* for all your efforts to put out this amazing new content. It's been helping a lot with everything that's going on in the world right now. Thanks guys, your channel is like a storybook that never ends! Hermaeus Mora would he proud :D
I think you're right on the money. I've never really been fond of the Companion's storyline just because of how short and underdeveloped it is, but if there was a whole slew of cut content involving the Silver Hand that would make me very sad indeed. The SH always did seem kind of fixated on the Companions, not to mention how they found out about the Circle being werewolves in the first place. Great theory guys.
Any chance of getting a list of the mods you used in this video? I love the way you've got skyrim looking and how the characters move.
I love eating my breakfast and starting my day with elder scrolls lore 😄
I always wanted to join the Silver Hand. Most of my characters tend to become beast hunters or monster slayers of some kind.
Would love to see a comprehensive mod list of everything used in these videos. Your version of enb pops way more than what I'm used to.
The Silver Hand attack you even if you aren't a werewolf. If you go to Driftshade Refuge before joining the Companions they'll try to kill you. It is also strongly implied that they kill and torture people even if they just _think_ are werewolves- there are several dead bodies that aren't werewolves in their hideouts, they have a leader named "The Skinner", etc.
Loving the video so Much!
Nice choice for a Sunday Morning upload.
Just what I was looking for tbh
I really don't think it's fair to say they're "not bad" when they attack you unprovoked outside of the companions questline.
That’s how they programmed it. Both their actual story.
Well then maybe don't just walk into their camp unannounced and armed to the teeth? I'd get jumpy too if some dude wearing the skin of a dragon and wielding dual flaming Daedric swords just walked up to me and my buds while we're sharing mead and mutton around the campfire. Seriously, you don't think these guys would be hiding out on the fringes of civilization if they didn't want to be left alone? Also, maybe they, too, have fallen to Hircine's influence and just like hunting stuff no matter what.
@@Makyntotch7 you could walk in naked and they’d still attack you. You’re supposed to be one of the civilians they’re “protecting”, if they outright attack you then they’re no better than your average bandit gang.
One thing to note, going through a current play through if you hit a silver hand with an effect that they resist the cue will sometimes say “bandit” or “bandit leader” so not only the armor. But also the default characters for silver hand are just bandits.
new faction: Vigils of the Silver Dawn!
"maybe I'm looking into this too much"
Dude, do you know what channel you are posting to? XD
Wait so these are just theories? With all the evidence I’d think this would be accurate lore. Good job dude, you have changed the way I view the silver hand.
I love your videos but sometimes they're just what I need to fall asleep. Your voice is so soothing lol
I always assumed they were vigilants that were too bloodthirsty or that they only hated werewolves instead of all daedra afflicted.
They're more like partners I imagine, the Vigilant and Dawnguard work together, it would also make sense for both the Vigilant and Dawnguard to work with the Silver Hand since they all have similar goals.
This is exactly what I’ve thought about the silver hand for years! So underdeveloped, such untapped potential. Would’ve been a nice addition to the available factions & choices like joining or destroying the brotherhood & joining the volkihar or the dawnguard. Especially since creation club made a connection between the Silver Hand & the Vigilants of Stendarr.
I just released a mod about the Silver Hand point of view, "Dawn of the Silver Hands -- Join the Silver Hands"
I don't know, because in every one of my games, even before dawnguard came out, a majority of silver hand are vampires under their armor, I figured it was a vampire mercenary group
Me, a non Companion: Hey guys, what's up?
Silver Hand: I'm gonna split you like an old woman's purse!
Let me guess, the big mystery is that they work for Harkon, who hates werewolves and has Silver Hand sword in his bedroom?
👀
Or perhaps its a trophy, as in to show he killed a Silver Hand member?
@@chazzcoolidge2654 Silver Hand hunts vampires? Harkon would consider a Silver Hand member opponent worthy enough to keep a trophy as a reminder of his victory when he is so full of himself that he dares to look down at Dragonborn?
@Chip he doesn't need a silver sword forged by Silver Hand to kill a werewolf. Harkon lorewise literary goes down only to 1)wielder of Auriel's Bow; 2)unbound Dragonborn, who already mastered his powers and doesn't give a fuck about this upstart immortal wannabe.
@@TheArklyte It's implied that the Silver Hand hunts vampires too. You can find Vampire Dust in Silver Hand inventories when you loot their corpses, and the Silver Sword does extra damage to undead rather than were-beasts.
I do remember the Companions and the Silver Hand split being mentioned somewhere in a book in Skyrim.
Which one?
Pretty sure it's in their final base that you murder through with Vilkas
Another fine Lore video. Well researched and of course well narrated.
I always had the impression that Hircine are behind the Silver Hand as well, their job is to turn the table of the hunters (werewolves) making sure that they are prey as well. You suggestion make perfect sense thou and it IS compatible with my idea insomuch that Hircine are perfectly fine with the Silver Hand hunting werewolfs.