How to Stop a Dog From Pulling: The Secret to Loose Leash Walking!
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- čas přidán 1. 07. 2024
- Want to know how to stop your dog from pulling on the leash? A pulling dog makes walk time no fun at all. In this video, we'll show you how to start loose leash walking training so that you can train your dog to stop pulling and start walking politely.
You can also see our written guide with more information on the K9 of Mine website: www.k9ofmine.com/loose-leash-...
We'll be covering everything you need to know about loose leash walking, including:
0:46 Why Dogs Pull on the Leash
1:18 An Overview of No-Pull Gear
4:19 The Gear You'll Need for Loose Leash Walking
5:50 How to Teach Your Dog to Loose Leash Walk
Loose Leash Walking Games
6:29 LLW Game #1: Silky Loose Leash Training
7:54 LLW Game #2: 1-2-3 Walking
9:16 LLW Game #4: Red Light, Green Light
10:32 LLW Game #5: Flip It & Reverse It
11:07 LLW Game #6: Reward Check-ins
11:53 Troubleshooting & Loose Leash Walking Tips
12:41 Heel vs Loose Leash Walking
14:00 Be Realistic About Expectations
Many of the loose leash walking skills and training games we cover can be performed with or without treats. These games even work for training a stubborn dog to loose leash walk - my own dog Remy featured in these videos has been described as stubborn before, and he certainly is a very confident guy!
Learn all about how to train a dog to not pull on the leash during walks!
Be sure to share your own experience with loose leash walking and preventing pulling in the comments below!
I love how you address the discomfort and stress on a dog of constant heeling! Loose leash doesn't mean perfect heeling! Let the dog be a dog, sniff, learn the environment....just respond to light harness pressure as this video so amazingly dives into....no corrections/aversives required!! Just time and patience from the human.
This channel should have millions of subscribers! Amazing content and actually positive training but with technics that give results with reactive dogs
Thank you so much for the kind words of support!
It's really sad that the information in your videos is legit gold and exactly what training should be- but because the dogs are not being baited into going over threshold. I love your channel.
Thank you so much! Would never intentionally push my dog or any other over threshold for show. It’s disturbing how common it is unfortunately.
This was so helpful. My dog is terrible on the leash and I know it's all my fault. We practiced some of these inside today and she learned them so fast! I can't wait to keep working with her on it now that I know what to do.
Great work! Remember, leash pulling is only an issue if it bothers you. Having a dog that pulls doesn't make you or your dog "bad", it's just a preference choice. Best of luck!
I just saw this and I'm so happy you posted a few different ideas and the way the dog will react. thank you
Yesterday marked my third week with my almost three year old female Doberman. I have been struggling with pulling issues and after watching your methods she is really coming around quickly! I'm so glad you mentioned the triggers of public places and giving them a chance to calm down a bit. I thought I had gone wrong somewhere or she somehow wasn't getting it after doing so good. Thank you so much for showing me the way in these informative videos! We are both enjoying each other so much more in our time spent together ❤ 💖 💕
Aw Randy that makes me so happy to hear! I'm SO glad you're enjoying your walks together more now. I think it's easy for us to imagine that once a dog learns a new skill, that's that. But a lot has to do with environment and setting, and their ability to be calm will definitely vary depending on the situation.
It sounds like you're doing a great job with your new girl. Dobbies are awesome, I have big love for them
These are such great tips. Thanks!
i’m looking through ur vids and their amazing and helpful
Workin on a couple of these. Thanks again.
I love this one!
Thats a great idea to switch out to different harness for different situations.
Great video! We're looking to get a dog next year, and this has been a worry of mine as we have friends that have no control over the pups, so good to have this on hand when it's our turn!
this is by far the best most informative video I've watched on loose leash walking, thank you for going into so much detail that really helps me!
I’m so glad it was helpful to you! 😁
Thank you for sharing! Your videos are on point.
Glad you like them!
You are giving me so much hope again, I have a reactive and pulling dog and sometimes I feel so frustrated and I know she does to and I end up just crying my night away, but these videos I feel have brought me back hope. Thank you so so much.
It's definitely tough for a lot of us reactive dog owners. Hang in there!
Love this. One of the best videos. Thank you 🙏 😊
Thank you so much!
Amazing
This is such a helpful video! Thank you for sharing your experience and advice! I look forward to checking out more of your content.
Thank you for the words of support!
Thank you for the detailed video! I’m going to be trying these exercises
Best of luck!
This was so informative! Thank you so much :)
So glad!
Thank you for going over silky leash and pattern games. It helps to see if vs reading it.
I’m so glad it helped! Yeah videos can be a lot clearer when it comes to pattern games :)
These are incredible tips! Watched so many videos on loose leash walking and this is honestly the best! Love your encouragement for the humans too!
Aw thank you so much! That really means a lot :) We're just doing our best and demoing along the way.
Thanks for the info
You bet!
This is what I was looking for, after all the things has not really worked for us. Thanks a lot!
Hope it helps! It can definitely take some time to get the full benefits of a true polite walker, but it works!
I really love your videos, they’ve been so helpful to me. You’re so clear in how you teach, you make it really straightforward to understand. Thank you 😊
You are so welcome! Thanks for the kind words. :)
I’ve never seen a compression harness ! Thanks 🙏
Great video thank you
Glad you enjoyed it
your videos have been extremely helpful and reassuring as i have a reactive pup. thank you for your great content!
You are so welcome!
This was really helpful! My dog walks great on a least until we turn to come home on our road and then he goes into "let's get home" mode and pulls like crazy so I am going to try some of these distraction training tips and see if I can snap him out of it.
Thank you for reminding the patience it seems obvious but it is a thing a struggle the most with. I have just recently realised that my reactivity really hurts our relationship with my dog.
I went through a huge period where I was so frustrated with Remy, it had a huge effect on our relationship. Embracing and accepting him for the dog he is, while trying to help him get better, is what really changed things for us.
This was very helpful and realistic! I love that you addressed the myth that harnesses make dogs pull - I'd been seeing that all over TikTok and just did not understand that. Do you have any recommendations for getting them to settle down when they arrive at a new place? I try to get my girl to sniff in an area and pull a little on the side before we get on the walking path/crowded area but she pulls right towards it and I don't want to reward her going in that direction immediately.
Hey Josie! I'd suggest doing some treat scatters into the grass for a few minutes, as sniffing can really chill a dog out. Alternatively, you could use a snuffle mat if you're in an area that doesn't really have much tall grass.
I've just found your channel and I've watched nearly every reactivity video. I really love how honest your videos are about dealing with the struggles of a reactive dog. I do have a question: when, if ever, should you work on "playing nicely" with other dogs, rather than just staying calm on walks. I can tell my dog wants to play but as he's a rescue who never learned appropriate play. He initiates play a bit too strongly and doesn't become relaxed until a little bit of time goes by.
My dog is so similar Louise! Before I knew better I used to take him to off-leash dog parks and let him run around with neighbors' dogs. Usually he was fine if he found a similar rough-style play partner, but a couple of times he got carried away and got too mouthy with dogs who didn't like it so we had to stop going. It's a tough question. Truthfully, I've decided it's just not worth the risk for us. Remy is just so easily aroused, and he has very poor dog social skills. I could see him so easily not taking cues to back off, and I don't want to make other dogs uncomfortable.
The best option would be to find some appropriate, similar play style dog partners and do small play sessions with them. You could start out muzzling your dog if you think he's a bite risk to keep both dogs safer. Start with parallel walks and add some limited play sessions from there!
I'd also really suggest working with a dog behaviorist who has access to a variety of dogs and could test your dog out with others of varying play styles and temperaments. I did this with Remy with mixed results - I think it was a bit too overwhelming for him.
Another potential option would be testing out short sessions a well-established doggie daycare or play center. Assuming they have appropriate, experienced staff in place (which not all do), they can match your dog to appropriate play partners and keep an eye out for if things are escalating. I'd just really talk to them first about how they handle reactive or easily-aroused dogs. Ask if staff know how to recognize dog body language and how often they separate dogs, if they use small groups, etc. Honestly, a lot of places just throw all the dogs together which is definitely what you do NOT want, so watch out for that.
I also wouldn't let him spend an entire day there, as that might be overwhelming, but you could try attending for an hour or with plenty of play breaks and see how he does.
The safest option would be to have an experienced dog behaviorist work with you through all this, as they'll be able to monitor your dog for signs of stress, over-arousal, etc.
But know that if it doesn't work out, that's OK too! Your dog can still have plenty of fun playing with you and enjoy enough enrichment activities where dog-on-dog play is not a necessity.
I understand how you feel, because I too feel like Remy would really enjoying playing with other dogs if he could just chill a bit and if he has better social skills. But ultimately, a poorly socialized dog can be a big risk in dog-play interactions, so sometimes its best to focus on other areas of fun and engagement for your dog.
Good luck!
@@K9ofMine thanks so much for your thoughtful reply! I’ve been taking my dog Levi to a shy dog class at an amazing training program that also does daycare (which he’s def not ready for yet). It’s been great for him to be around other shy dogs who will listen to his boundaries and vice versa. He initiates strongly but then runs away in fear when dogs show interest back. I’ll keep working with him on counter conditioning the reactions (which he’s doing great with from afar!) and I’ve been coming to terms with the fact that he might never be a “dog park dog”. I heard a trainer before say, at the end of the day, you didn’t get a dog for the neighbor kids or other dogs, you got a dog for you. That has really helped me come to terms with it. I so look forward to more videos you post with Remy, he’s adorable!
Aw I’m so happy you were able to find that shy dog class, that sounds great for him! It sounds like you really have the right idea and are really being considerate about what your dog needs to feel and happy. That’s such a great point your trainer made too - our dogs are for our enjoyment. They don’t need to be perfect in every new situation with every new person they meet!
Prong collars can be used very gently while being effective. Its not a brute strength tool
what type of harness do you recommend that is escape-proof? My small dog backs out of harnesses due to fear, I haven't found one he is not able to get out of yet, where do you find a compression harness like in the video?
Hey there! Yes, I’d highly recommend the 2Hounds Design Freedom Harness! We’re working on a review of it right now, it’s a fantastic harness, I can’t recommend it enough. And it has that synching ability to stop dogs from slipping out, it’s great.
What brand and where did you get the harness? Thank you!
This is the 2 Hounds Freedom Harness and I highly recommend it! You can grab it from the 2 Hounds Design website here: bit.ly/3D6IMdA
May I know what’s the high value treats you used in this video?
We usually use hot dog pieces for high value treats ;)
During neighborhood walks, my 4 month old golden retriever often checks-ins and I'll reward for that behavior. But at some point I would like him not to depend on treats everytime he checks-in. Any recommendations or would a verbal praise "Good Boy!!" be his reward and I'll alternate his treat rewards?
Hey Scott - that's awesome, great work! If you're ready to ease off the treats a bit, I'd suggest starting by rewarding every other check-in, then maybe rewarding one check-in per every few houses, etc. Like you mentioned, you can use praise for those occasions when you aren't using treats to reward. Just know that if you stop using treats all together, you can expect those awesome check-ins to decrease over time. Unfortunately dogs will always need some kind of motivator, and if they aren't seeing a reason for the check-ins, they may stop. But I think finding ways to dial back on the treat dispensing a bit makes perfect sense!
@@K9ofMine Thanks a bunch!!!! I’ll take your advice by treating at each house we pass, and gradually only treating after two houses. I know he’s still a puppy but I’ll keep up with the treats and eventually decrease the amount. Thanks again
Hi! I've tried some of these techniques before, and when I tapered off the treats, my dog went back to tight leash walking. Is tapering to zero treats a bad idea?
Hey there! I’d suggest tapering down on the treats but not going to zero for quite some time. Start by rewarding only every other check-in with treats (using praise for the other), and then maybe just once a block, then once every 3-5 min, etc.
Depending on the dog, tapering to zero might not be realistic as they do need some motivation. Some dogs find praise rewarding enough but many of our hungry hippos really need the allure of food ;)
This dog is in pain , has he been checked ❤, his hindlimbs ROM and stand are not normal . Love your videos💙
Yes, this was before poor Remy got his double ACL surgery. He’s doing much better now!
Great tips! I have a general question about your methods of training: You always mention "managing expectations", and for example you say that you still let Remy pull for a while at the beginning of a walk, and that in more challenging environments he'll still pull, etc. Same for being reactive, barking, and other unwanted behaviors. My question is, how come police dogs, therapy dogs, and others, are almost always following their commands and behaving well? I was told that these "positive reinforcement only" methods don't really get the dog to 9-10 out of 10, and they only get you to maybe 3-5 out of 10. From your videos, it seems like this is true and that your approach is to just accept it. But police dogs are "not robots" too, and it can't all be about genetics (+my dog is a mixed german shepherd so in terms of genetics she should be okay). Isn't the unavoidable conclusion that these methods are not good enough? Sorry for the harsh questions, I'm really only getting to know these methods now, and I'm trying to understand and decide how to train my dog.
This is a great question and I appreciate you asking it!
There are a few differences between how therapy and police dogs perform as opposed to pet dogs. One is indeed genetics. While genetics are not EVERYTHING in a dog, they are quite important, and have a very heavy impact on whether or not a dog will ever be suitable for police work or therapy work. This is just something not all dogs can do - not all dogs have the natural temperament or drive for this work.
In the case of your dog, while German Shepherds are known for being a great police dog breed, this is definitely not the case for all or even most German Shepherds. Even within a breed, there is a TON of variation, which is why it is so, so important to get a puppy from a reliable, trustworthy breeder if you go that route. A backyard breeder will not produce a puppy that will be suitable for police work, especially because badly bred German Shepherds often struggle dramatically with fear, anxiety, and nervousness.
Dogs with solid genetics are 100% capable of becoming excellent police dogs or therapy dogs through force-free training that does not use fear, pain, or intimidation. But that'll never be my dog (or many dogs) because of the genetic dispositions required for that kind of word.
The next issue is, in some of the situations you describe such as police work, the dog's happiness and wellbeing is not the priority. When we're dealing with life or death situations, some trainers will choose techniques that may result in reliable behavior as the mental cost to the dog. This is an interesting moral question, and increasingly more training is putting the dog's wellbeing above the human's personal wants or interests (or, at the very least, of equal importance).
Even now, increasingly more police dog trainers are utilizing more fear-free methods to improve the handler's connection with the K9, and because ethically using fear, stress, and intimidation to train animals is something as a society we no longer support as easily as we once did. To be clear, well-bred dogs can be EXCELLENT police or therapy dogs with force-free training. It simply isn't a method that has been well utilized in the past.
Our relationship with dogs is a long and complicated one. Much like horses, dogs were once tools, and we defined their "goodness" as how adequately they performed their tasks. The happiness, stress, or quality of life for the animal tool was secondary. Today, with many of us forming such close bonds with our canine companions, we might value connection and relationship over performance for our pets. Many of us are not interested in perfect performance or flawless command responses if it will come as a detriment to the animal's mental health.
For me personally, my bond with my dog trumps any kind of performance. All the training work and behavior work we do is to keep him mentally engaged and to allow him to access more public spaces safely. For therapy or police dogs, we need to ask ourselves how much discomfort we are willing to cause an animal to solidify their usefulness as a tool? There is absolutely a balance that can be achieved, and many therapy dogs and police dogs are trained successfully without force or fear. However, my own dog Remy will never be a therapy or police dog because 1) he does not have appropriate genetics for that task 2) it is not a goal I desire for us. If that's something we wanted to do, we could through a ton of work, but I'd rather focus our training time making both our lives more fun!
I hope that answers your question!
@@K9ofMine Thank you so much for the detailed reply! My dog was found in a parking lot so she is most definitely not "the perfect dog" genetically, but she is a mixed German Shepherd. I agree that there is no point in training her to be a police dog if she's not a police dog.
But I would like her to do the commands perfectly, for example, if I call her I want her to come 100% of the time even if she's playing with other dogs without a leash on (very high stimulation level). I think this is important for our quality of life, otherwise I won't be able to trust her without a leash and freeing her will be a frustrating experience, leading to me freeing her less and letting her play with other dogs less. So the goal eventually is that I'll be able to trust that she will do as I say ~100% of the time, and not only when she wants to, so that we'll both have a more enjoyable life together.
Another really important thing is for her to not ever be aggressive in any way.
Commands like heel or sit&stay are less important but can also be very useful, again as long as she can be trusted to follow them (e.g. tell her to sit&stay and go buy groceries for a few minutes).
So my point is that an obedient dog can lead to happier life for both that dog and the owner. I have two questions:
1. Can this level of obedience be reached (without "perfect" genetics) with force/fear-free methods?
2. Will it be easier/faster to reach by combining other methods too?
I know this can be morally complicated, but I'm not getting into moral questions just yet, and as I mentioned there is a benefit to the dog's quality of life when the dog can be trusted.
Thanks again, I really appreciate your help!
@@ellasharakanski251 Hey Ella - to answer your questions - yes, incredible levels of obedience can be achieved with force-free training, and many dog sport competitors train exclusively with force-free methods! There is absolutely no reason why that cannot be achieved force-free. Now as far as 100% obedience - that is a high level to ask of any animal. As you know, animals are not robots, and they will fail occasionally, but if you've practiced and put in the work, that risk is very minimal.
I know some people choose to use an ecollar as an emergency last-resort for off-leash recall, as resisting prey animals can be extremely challenging for some dogs. To be clear, the recall is always built force-free and usually the ecollar is never needed, but for some people having the option for that physical jolt will be the only option that makes some owners feel comfortable having their dogs off leash. Of course for some dogs, they simply cannot be trusted off leash - ever. A very high prey-drive dog or certain breeds (such as Huskies) are largely assumed to never be reliable or trusted completely off leash.
For your second question - no, if force-free training is done correctly it is just as successful and fast as aversive-based methods. If speed is your goal, it's always best to work with a certified animal behavior consultant or trainer, as they can eliminate any mistakes you might be making and help you achieve those goals faster!
I hope that helps answer your questions. I am sure people with different backgrounds may have different opinions, but I haven't seen any evidence that force-free methods are any less effective than aversives.
@@K9ofMine Thank you so much!
@@ellasharakanski251 Another factor she didn't mention is that there is a high wash-out rate for police, therapy, and guide dogs. If the dog is not performing well enough, they get placed in a pet home. So even with "perfect" genetics the training methods they use are not 100% effective.
As for 100% recall, I don't think that's achievable or necessary. All interactions with dogs carry some risk. If you're not willing to accept the risk that your dog won't respond off leash 100% of the time, then don't let them off leash. That is the only solution. You should train them as well as you can, of course, but no dog and no training is 100% reliable. Even professional dogs mess up sometimes.
this is good but I don't think she should have the leash around her wrist??
👀
What if i want lose leash walking with my dog but i don't want her to constantly look at me? I want her to enjoy our walks, but she constantly looks at me and doesn't even sniff anything, she's just waiting for treats. What should i do?
I totally get it and I’ve been feeling the exact same way lately. I’m not really crazy about Remy staring at me all walk either! Lately I’ve been trying to just freeze whenever he puts pressure on the leash and then have him come back and stand by my side before I give him a treat and we continue. Sometimes I just keep walking as the reinforcer and don’t do the treat at all. But I’ve stopped asking for constant check-ins because I’d rather have him engage w the environment.
You could also try freezing when she puts pressure on and then as soon as she steps even a bit back and puts even slight slack on the leash, continue walking. Then eventually she’ll learn she just needs to leave slack in the leash to continue the walk.
Hope that helps!
To my knowledge all those studies against prong and e-collar have been debunked for either just been a survey or misusing the equipment.
Although prong collar discomfort the dog, because the prongs pinch and not squash, it is the only collar that will NOT damage to the dogs throat (including flat collar).
I got to this video because i watched another video in this channel, i have to be honest, i tried a few things with both my dogs but eventually i put a prong collar on both of them and it took basically no time for them to learn. That said, this is not a magic tool. I did my homework first, a lot of homework before i used the equipment.
The channel looks great, but i had to disagree with you on this one.
I do have a question though. How can you say harness do not cause dogs to pull more and afterwards acknowledge the opposition reflex that causes them to move against pressure?
When it comes to using a prong collar for achieving a loose leash walk, it's largely an ethics issue so we'll probably not come to an agreement.
I'm not a fan in general, but I understand why some people resort to them for pulling. It's not even an option for Remy because he has throat damage due to a previous owner using a prong collar on him. There's plenty of evidence that prong collars can and do cause damage, especially because the average owner positions them incorrectly. On top of that, they hurt, and that's just not something I'm interested in doing to my dog when a kinder alternative is available.
I've never seen any reliable authority claim that the studies on elevated stress in training with ecollars and prongs have been debunked, but people who are big fans of those tools do like to say as much.
Opposition reflex happens with any pressure - it's not just a harness thing. Any collar and leash can result in some opposition reflex. You just need to show the dog that giving into the pressure is a good thing.
Hope that helps! Glad you and your dogs have found a solution that helps you to enjoy walks more.
@@K9ofMine To have throat damage from prong collar is because the person just used to collar to abuse the dog. I can easily damage a dog with a flat collar. You stated that head collars and no pull harnesses can damage the dog if not used properly. So abusive person will damage the dog with any of these tools. So i don't think its fair to say this tool is harmful more then others. It is fair to say that it requires more learning and skill to use properly. I think the dogs would be better if all dog trainers go out against abusive people and require bigger punishment then if trainers are in camps and clashing against each other.
I understand what you mean with the opposition reflex. But isn't it harder for them to pull on a collar? The chest is their center of mass so it is easier for them to pull and more likely for them to succeed and get rewarded for pulling. I am not an expert, that is just what i understand the claims are. I do like to hear both sides of the argument. I find it very interesting.
As for the studies not being debunked. There is no reliable authority that said otherwise. There are trainers that showed and explained why the studies are not reliable and how the tools were not used properly in the study or were used in a specific method (classical compulsion training) and not other method (used by balance dog training). It connects to what i said above, some dog trainers can be abusive but some trainer can use the same tool in a very human way.
Beckman Dog Training does not use prong collars, Zak George didn't use the word debunk like non positive trainers did, but basically said it is questionable.
czcams.com/video/bkulCnZpQMU/video.html
Beckman's Dog Training is not positive only, but he is mostly on the positive and uses only head collar:
czcams.com/video/01QqvfpAZ-Q/video.html
czcams.com/video/MjmPjyv668c/video.html
I am not saying you should change your method. I am not saying one is better. I believe there is a place for both positive and balanced (compulsion is a different story).
I does make me sad to see these tools being outlaw in some places in the world because some people misuse them but it is ignored that it sometimes save some dogs. Sometimes dog trainers recommended to put their to dog down because the dog is not responding to positive training but balance training worked and saved the dog.
Positive training did not work for my dog and trust me i tried. If he saw a dog he would go nuts and i had to drag him away no matter what collar he had on. He did not care for treats to walk away. I put an e-collar on him and corrected him only with the vibrate(!!!). About 5-6 corrections in 2 days and he is not reacting. He is not friendly to them, but his mind is clear enough so i can encourage him not reacting or looking away. For him vibrate was more aversive then a prong, choke, head collars. But i'll take those 5 vibration any day against lifetime of stress and reactions.
And thank you for engaging in conversation. Like i said, i hope positive trainers will stop going after the tools and work with balance trainers to educate people against compulsion training and have strong front to make harsher laws against people who abuse dogs with training tools or any other tools.
@@amitkoren948 Hey Amit! You’re absolutely right that a flat collar or front clip harness can hurt a dog, but the difference is that it’s not designed to intentionally hurt the animal. A prong collar is designed to cause pain or - if we’re being generous- discomfort. I don’t want to use tools that are made to cause pain.
Ok so you were asking about opposition reflex, not asking why a harness would or would not encourage pulling. You’re right that a dog can put more weight behind the harness, but that’s not making them pull more - it just means you as the walker might feel the effects more. Appropriate loose leash walking will reduce pulling regardless of whether you are using a harness or collar because it’s training based.
I’m also confused about how you are distinguishing compulsion vs balanced, I’ve always heard these used interchangeably. I’ve looked at those studies and haven’t found anything questionable about them myself, they are done on a fairly large scale and use several measurements to asses stress. There aren’t any other studies saying otherwise, so I have to go with the science we have and what those who have degrees in animal cognition say.
I understand the inclination to use a prong collar for pulling but I have to say I’m very concerned about how you describe using an ecollar on your dog for reactivity. You are not fixing your dog’s issues. Yes, you’re stopping the behavior or barking and pulling, but your dog is still feeling very stressed or scared of other dogs. By using aversives you’re adding to that fear and stress and increasing negative feelings rather than changing your dog’s emotions. I’d really encourage you to talk to a certified behavior consultant. Using ecollars like that for reactivity it extremely dangerous and can result in increased behavior issues down the line. I don’t know any knowledge balances trainers who would ever use an ecollar for reactivity. Please, please reconsider.
Lastly, it’s a myth that positive based training doesn’t work on certain dogs. Remy is the kind of dog most would use an ecollar on (and people have in the past). Yes it requires work, patience, and understanding dog body language but I promise if you can work on giving your dog the distance he needs to feel safe and encouragement, while changing his negative feelings towards other dogs, you’ll see results.
I know dog training can be super confusing, I know people have different opinions. Ultimately your ethics maybe different than mine. But if you can work with a CPDT or IABBC certified behaviorist I’d really recommend it. I’d really suggest trying to see things from the point of view of what your dog is experiencing.
@@K9ofMine My understanding is that a flat collar on a pulling/lunging dog squash the dogs throat and can cause an injury. A Prong is designed to cause discomfort, yes. But its physical design means it will not squash the throat and it will not injure the dog unless the handler is intentionally trying to cause harm, just like abusive person would injure a dog with a flat collar or rope because that person is a scum.
My dog used to lunge hard and on a flat collar he would scuff for like 15 sometimes more after that. This did not happen with a prong. It made him stopped lunging but did not stopped him from reacting. Note i did not correct him and did not yank on the leash. In both cases he corrected himself by getting to the end of the leash and both hurt him but only the later was momentarily.
I can see an argument with using a harness for lose leash walking. A little less for reactive dog.
I think you heard compulsion and balanced trainer are the same because they use the tools positive trainers do not like. But there is a big difference.
Compulsion trainers discourage behaviors with positive punishments (like corrections) and encourage behaviors with negative reinforcement (releasing pressure when command was followed).
Positive trainers encourage behaviors with positive reinforcement but they do not have a method to discourage behavior. They try to work around that with reinforce another behavior.
The balance trainers say, we agree positive reinforcement is better at teaching behaviors. So down, seat, come, place, etc. etc. all taught with positive reinforcement. If its treats or play. They do the silky leash training you showed in the video and the 1,2,3 treat. Balance trainers do not wait for the dog to react to correct it, like positive trainers, they will try to avoid reaction and to change the dogs focus on them with treats or toy.
From their perspective, working around the unwanted behavior is not a fix. Its a way to manage the dog. And that was me at some point. Go on walks later when there are less people and dogs. See a dog or bunch of people, move to the other side of the walk. Reality of urban life does not always allows for the distance the dog needs (it usually doesn't) and i was in place one dog lunges forwards and the other dog gets scared pulling the other direction. I always walked on alert to see whats coming and try to plan how to avoid it. I was not comfortable with that solution. I wanted a fix. He does have to like and play with all dogs. he just needs to not attack.
So what balance trainer say is, if and when the dog do react, lunge, jump or do whatever behavior we don't want him to do, they will teach him that behavior is not OK and not allowed with a correction. But unlike compulsion training, they will teach the dog what it should be doing so dog understands it has a choice.
So, in my example with the e-collar. Yes, the correction stops the reaction but does not solve the issue. We do agree on that. You are coming from the idea of compulsion trainers who just stops the behavior and forcing the dog into situations. But that is not what happening. The correction stopped the reaction and now i am reinforcing him ignoring the other dog and marking every time he looks at people, just like you would with positive training. Before, he had two choices and he always chooses the wrong one. Now he prefers the correct option and we celebrate that and he gets treats and play and excitement and running. If a dog he doesn't like passes by, it is still stressful for him. But i change focus to me and its a process but it seems more normal and logical then planning how to avoid everything every walk.
I would say while positive only is 100% positive, balance is 90% positive.
I encourage you to listen to Larry Krohn, Tom Davis and Ivan Balabanov. I don't think you should and i am not trying to change your methods. Just saying like its a myth positive training cannot help any reactive dog (although i did not see it fix, only manage), i think the dog training world needs to accept that there is a place for balance training and it is a whole lot better to try that than telling someone to put down their dog because it cannot be trained.
I do wonder though, what if i said i yell at the dog to make him stop reacting?
I am assuming you are much more OK with the yell then the e-collar, so my question is why?
If the yell makes him stop, it means from the dog perspective , the yell is aversive. So what is the difference between a yell and a vibrate? They are both aversive to the dog and both do not cause pain or injury.
Is it worst just because it came from a tool the some people misused?
I am not American BTW, the only training certification here is from a two week course that anyone can teach. There is no supervision.
I did not like what i saw with compulsion trainers. I did not see result with positive trainers. I spent thousands of dollars on online courses and spent countless of hours learning from the courses and youtube videos.
What i say, is from what i've learned, saw in videos and experienced with my dogs.
I do NOT recommend using aversive tools out of the gate and i do NOT recommend using them without the knowledge. People just thinking prong is a magic tools, putting it on the dog neck and start yanking on the leash should be stopped.
I think people should be allowed to use aversive tools only after they worked with a trainer but not banned completely.
Yes a dog can cause damage on a flat collar, but that's why we should teach our dogs to walk on a loose leash. As I demonstrated in this video, you don't need to use painful tools like a prong collar to teach a dog to walk on a loose leash.
Management strategies overlap a lot with counter conditioning, which is why I don't agree that management doesn't help resolve the underlying issue. Every time you're using management to stop your dog from reacting, you're stopping them from practicing the behavior, so that's always a win!
I can understand what you mean about using treats alongside an ecollar for reactivity, but I still don't find this ethically appropriate. If a dog is reacting, they are over threshold and can't handle the situation. That's not the dog's fault, it's the owner's fault for putting the dog in that situation. A dog that is over threshold is not in learning mode - the best thing to do is just get out of the situation.
Using an ecollar is adding stress and fear to a dog that is already stressed and fearful. And yes, you are stopping the barking and lunging behavior, but you're shutting the dog down for communicating their discomfort. This is what ends up getting people bitten or other dogs hurt. A shut down dog looks calm, but since the underlying emotions haven't been addressed, you end up working with a timebomb.
And to be clear - no, I'm not OK with yelling at a dog for reacting. Your #1 goal should always be preventing a reaction through distance, treat scatters, magnet hand, and using sightline barriers. If a dog reacts, all you can do it get away. The time for learning mode is over.
Like I said, there are no knowledgeable balanced trainers I know who would use an ecollar for reactivity. Yes, I have seen some good balanced trainers use prong collars for pulling. But I think the risks of these tools outweigh the benefits, and if these tools can be banned I think that's a net positive. There's no reason to put tools that can easily hurt animals in the hands of inexperienced people, most of who will use the items incorrectly.
I assure you, force-free training can work with any type of dog! It might just be a matter of understanding your dog's body language more. I'd also just note that there is no such thing as "positive only" training, as even LIMA and force-free trainers use both positive reinforcement and negative punishment quadrants of learning theory.
Anyway, I am sure we could keep arguing about this all day, but I think we both have our opinions on this matter and we can leave it at that. I don't think anything constructive will come of continuing this conversation. Thanks for commenting and best of luck with your dog!
How can I do this without treats?
When I give nearly every kind of treat to my young border collie, she mouths the treat for a moment then spits them out.
I was advised by a trainer to simply remove all food until she starts to obey. This should work after 24 or 36 hrs or give up?? Or can I go as long as 48 hrs?
I'm at the point of giving up and calling her untrainable! My partner and I even touched on euthanasia- but I truly do not want to go that far!
---cannot rehome as she's bitten several people...it makes me weep -literally and every day, truly...that she's so sweet and lovely and playful but absolutely untrainable.
Hi He! Don’t give up hope! It sounds like you might just need to experiment with finding treats your dog considers high value. Have you tried hot dog pieces or cheese? Dogs tend to go crazy over those. Boiled chicken can work wonders too!
If your pup isn’t food motivated that’s OK too - you could use play or a favorite toy as a reward instead.
I would not recommend withholding regular food to encourage treat interest. That can erode your dog’s trust, and it’s just not very kind. Your dog has no idea why they aren’t being fed their normal meals, and withholding food won’t accomplish anything.
As far as being “untrainable” - can I ask what your training goals are? I think a lot of us get into this idea that our dog has to be “trained”, but that means many things to many different people. If you and your dog can function safely and happy together, that is really all you need. Your dog doesn’t need to undergo any kind of training to be a “good dog”. Your dog can pull on the leash and bark at strangers outside as long as it doesn’t bother YOU!
Instead of getting too focused on irrelevant expectations from society of what a “good” dog looks like, I’d simply ask yourself - what kind of behavior do I need from my dog for us to be happy together? And then, what behaviors would be nice, but are non-essential? You may be surprised by how little training your dog really needs to make both of you happy and content together. I hope that helps!
Sigh. Dog trainer here. You forgot to mention that head halters shouldn’t be used for heavy pullers, or no dogs that pull at all imo because it can result in neck issues. AND you are completely wrong about prong collars. You need to do more research on them and talk to a trainer that uses them properly.. most people get the off brand prong (that you showed) which can be sharp and harm your dog without intending it because they’re poorly made.. herm sprenger is the brand to go with, it has a trachea plate that protects the trachea & it’s made to where the trachea plate also makes the links go opposite ways so it applies even pressure. I’ve tried a prong on my own neck, it doesn’t hurt unless you intend it to hurt. when a prong is used properly it won’t harm the dog. It doesn’t give a harsh correction unless you give that type of correction? Not to mention. ANY tool can be harmful if intended, majority of the people that gave the prong a bad name don’t know how to use it correctly, so please. Have a conversation with a trainer who uses prong collars properly and maybe rethink it.
You should also not use a flat collar on a dog that pulls, and comperssion harnesses can also be very bad because it literally puts pressure on the dogs shoulders and chest when it pulls minimizing the movement. That can also cause possible damage in the long run, you’re an okay trainer with ok advice but, don’t bash tools and call other tools that can be worse better?.. and not to mention, depending on the dog harnesses can just make them pull even more, like y front harnesses, they encourage pulling because it’s more comfortable for the dog to pull..
Do some research on prong collars, but the positive side before bashing them again.
Curious at to where you got certified as a dog trainer. You don’t seem to understand how to use a harness properly and are making the same old excuses I’ve heard a thousand times about prong collars, most of which are untrue and have no evidence to support what you claim.
Experience, ethical balanced trainers will agree they inflict pain… that’s how they work. How do you think it stops a dog from pulling otherwise?
People have their reasons for using certain tools. I understand sometimes using a prong collar is the only quick and effective way an owner can safely take their dog on a walk. But you need to be realistic about the tools you use and understand how they function.
@@K9ofMine not sharing that information as it might dox me, but the same pressure I use on my dog & clients dogs I love tried on myself, along with ecollars but for the shock. It doesn’t hurt, but it can depending on the dog & if you’re intending to inflict pain. Some dogs are more sensitive, the more sensitive the dog is, the lower the prong should go. But it would never go too low. The higher the prong is, more of a correction. Lower the prong, less of a correction.
I used a prong on each dog I’ve worked with for a minimum of five days if nothing else works, from then on the dogs don’t need the prong. Last dog I worked with was a reactive cattle dog, with terrible leach manners. Two days with the prong after trying everything else for about in a span of 3 months, is pretty impressive. His owners don’t even need to use anything now to walk him exept for a slip lead, or regular flat collar. And the prong was only used for leash manner commands. For the reactiveness I had help from a past Client and kept cattle dog engaged while past client walked around with there dog in a focus heel. That dog is now completely over the reactivity & can loose leash walk & focus heel, on and off leash. Different trainers use different methods, but you shouldn’t bash prong collars. Even if you don’t like them. Haltis are way worse then prongs.
trigger warning.
I’ve seen a dog that had to get its eye removed because the owner used a halti on there dog to try and fix the pulling, the dog ended up taking its own eye halfway out, and it also ended up having horrible neck problems in the end.
I’ve tried many different methods for training llw, one even being a 2” agitation collar + retractable leash and an extremely high value treat. It surprisingly worked like a charm, im not trying to cause any hate towards you or to spark an argument, but I was impressed with the video until I seen you bashing prongs. Any good trainer would respect them, but not to the point where they liked them. You could have said something like “prong collar, I personally don’t like them. But if you want to know more about them please do your research on the proper use of them” prongs have been banned in many areas, because people bash them. Yet many dog owners in those areas order them and have them illegally because they’re a great tool. And one thing you did fail to mention in the video is if the dog has little to no focus on you even when outside with an extremely high value treat is training a focus command lol. That also works well if someone has a reactive dog
With a correctly fitted prong it shouldn't do any of that😂 the prongs don't dig in when correctly fitted and not used ignorantly your more likely to collapse your dogs trachea and choke them on a flat collar or martengale then hurt you dog with a properly fitted prong
A prong was not made to cause damage it evenly distributes pressure around the neck behind the ears. Pressure harnesses are more likey to cause joint pain and joint damage on any dog no matter the breed or age as they often restrict shoulder movements. I'd rather get my dogs attention with a slight pop on the prong over letting him hurt his trachea or joints
I'm sorry, but you're misinformed. A prong collar functions by intentionally causing pain and discomfort to your dog. It has nothing to do with how the pressure is distributed. It's a tool designed to inflict pain. That's how it functions - otherwise it would do nothing to prevent pulling. We don't support the use aversive tools at K9 of Mine!
Yes, a flat collar or martingale could also potentially cause damage if a dog was to constantly pull vigorously. But that's why this video is about training your dog to loose leash walk. The only reliable, safe way to stop a dog from pulling is to train them to walk loose on a leash. That's the whole point of this video!
Your comments on the prong collars are completely wrong and couldn't be more ridiculous, and misleading!
Ist off the prongs, do not dig into the dogs neck and/ or choke the dog!
2nd, the collar you showed in the video is like the size of the Titanic's anchor. 70% to 80% of dogs would work perfectly on a 2.25 mm size collar which is the size above a micro prong. The tips of the prongs are not sharp, they are subtly 4:14 rounded. The ONLY prong recommended is German quality of the Herm Springer brand. Stay away from cheap Chinese made garbage knockoffs! They are very poor quality!
3rd, it is designed to protect the trachea by dispersing pressure equally around the neck stimulating the mother dog or alpha dog using its mouth to make a correction. So this collar communicates to the dog in a way that actually makes sense to them in their own body language.
4th, you DO NOT jerk the collar or choke the dog. You teach the dog a language of learning pressure on, and pressure off. The dog learns that they control the pressure on and off switch.
5th, when a correction is applied you use a wrist pop, which quickly releases and literally gives you as little as two finger power steering control. Used in a combination of changing directions, quick flicks, verbal markers and praise, along with food reward, make the prong a total combination of a negative humane corrections, followed by a variety of positive rewards. This makes it an amazing tool which most dogs thrive & excel with!
This is why the prong, along with ecollars are the preferred tools of true balanced and competitive dog training professionals!
Any tool can be misused and abused. Lack of knowledge, understanding, and skills in using any tool can be damaging. Riding a tricycle vs driving a race car all comes down to the above 3 elements! It's all about how the equipment is properly used.
Don't mislead people with comments such as yours if you do not know what you are talking about.
P.S. All these science based quotes referring to these tools are all a bunch of garbage! Again, they are made by people wearing white coats, hiding in labs. Most, if any have never handled dogs professionally. Especially reactive & aggressive dogs.
Remember, knowledge, understanding and experienced skill levels are what make the difference! Be open minded to what is advanced beyond a clicker and a bag of treats.
SCIENCE!!!!!!!! Ha ha!
You can use all the excuses you want. But at the end of the day those tools function and work effectively to stop a dog from pulling because they hurt. They wouldn’t work otherwise.
I don’t want that kind of relationship based on fear, force, and intimidation with my dog. So I will never recommend those tools.
Some people have different values and it doesn’t bother them that they are using discomfort and pain to work with their dogs.
If you insist on using tools like these, there are trainers out there who can help you use them effectively without seriously injuring your dog. But there will still be discomfort, and those trainers are few and far between (with many charlatans in the cracks).
And I can tell you right now, ANY kind of jerking motion with a prong collar is unacceptable and dangerous and never recommended by trainers who use these tools, so you need to get your facts straight and consult with a real trainer who is experienced with these tools if that’s the route you want to take.
And I can assure you, certified dog behavior consultants don’t “hide in labs” 😂 - they have years upon years of experience with a range of dogs, including very aggressive and reactive animals. The denial is astounding..