Dual Shield Flux Core and 7018 Stick Welding Uphill
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- čas přidán 22. 10. 2018
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For this video, I was at JD Brewers shop doing some welding with dual shield flux core as well as 7018.
This topic came up in an episode of the weldingtipsandtricks podcast where JD was a guest and had just returned from helping Jimmy Diresta weld up some barn doors.
On the podcast episode # 108 wttpodcast.libsyn.com/stick-w... JD talked about using 7018 stick for some applications where he would normally run Dual Shield.
Because he is accustomed to using dual shield, he was taken aback at just how much slower 7018 was than dual shield on some hinges he was welding vertical uphill.
So we decided to actually time some uphill vertical welds and while we knew the dual shield flux core would be much faster, we were both surprised at just how much faster it was….and it looked better too.
We used 3/8” thick hot rolled A36 steel for this test and set the amperage on the 7018 at 115.
To keep things fair, JD set the machine to 24 volts and 270 inches per minute with .045” wire ( his normal all around settings for all positions in the shop)
Even at that setting the Dual shield was twice as fast.
But then JD bumped up the settings to 25.2 and 500 inches per minute.
And guess what happened …
Dual shield flux core is not quite as simple and as portable as stick welding, but it sure does get the job done quicker.
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I appreciate you and JD representing the dual shield Jody. I’ve been sold on the process for years and the proof is in the work. It’s a better weld for heavy gage steel and like ya’ll say, it burns through every time!
From one CZcams hero to another haha
Awesome comparison! Dual shield really takes the prize here and for ease of training as well. Replacement for stick no bit definitely an improvement! Thanks for sharing
Everytime you guys get together good things happen!! Great video.
Another great learning video. I have been running 350 wire speed at around 25.5 volts on our schools big dual wire Lincoln machine. It's easy to control for me because of certain arm and hand issues I have. But I will change up tonight when doing my butt and "T" joint welds for testing.
Jody and JD, awesome info packed video guys!!!! Thank you
Nice stop / starts on those beads with the 7018s. Respect 💯
That was awesome! I'd love to hear more about the adjustment on the ground due to "arc blow". Thanks for the video!
Thanks, Jody! I always learn something from your videos.
Excelent teaching! Thank You and JD.
Great demo between stick and wire very informative liked it.
I love watching these videos! Thank for making them man. If you ain't welding you ain't working
Great videos Jody! Lost of info and straight to the point.
Those welds look great! I run 052 with 100%c02 27v 360ipm on 3/4” plate vertical up side to side just like 7018looks like glass. Never leave your puddle
Excellent demonstration, work speed benefits are clear for the dual shield. I'm interested in the followup demo of arc blow issues. Worse at the end suggests a heat buildup problem.
Yeah one would think so but its actually the magnetic field that is building up because he is welding on DC, it wil not happen on AC :)
I had to look up Dual Shield as I am a bit behind the curve, it sure does make a nice quicker weld.
Hey guys....I just discovered your channel today and I'm really liking it. This is something I have been wanting to ask a wire feed welder as my roots in welding started at the so cal gas company back in 86. In 1988 I was sent off to Pico Rivera,ca to go through their 6" overhead course which is a solid 8 weeks. I noticed a pattern of a triangle that you were using as you progressed uphill and I understand why so that the weld will lay down properly, it is necessary to progress the heat and width of the puddle forward so the bead lays down. Some arc welders use a Z pattern which brings me to my question. In the oxy/acet course I took the most important rule of thumb was to burn a "Keyhole" which actually looks just like a skeleton keyhole as your weld advances. The hardest weld that we had to do in the field was fitting two halves of a fitting to a pipeline for pressure control purposes. In school it was notoriously known as a pad weld. A 1/4" pad that covered 180 degrees of the 4" pipeline using a 4 tip. When we start at the bottom after the tacks are in place, the motion on the bottom of the pipe was a long "J" motion on the pipe and burning the inside lanyard of the pad. This is of course torch following rod at a constant 45 degree angle. As you start heading up the sides the motion changes to a "C" motion from about 7 to 11 and then back into a long "J" motion only on top, the long stroke is on the pad and not the pipe as the heat transfer follows upward. I started mig welding years ago and found it to be my favorite using millermatic products. I noticed that all the motions that I was taught in oxy/acet exactly applied to my mig experience when welding. An example would be I'm adjoining an 1/8" plate in the vertical position to a plate on the ground forming a 90 degree shape with an 1/8" gap making for a forward left to right movement (I'm left handed) fillet weld. As I work through the weld I am doing a long "J" motion on the pad and a short upstroke making sure not to have undercut. I am basically using all the patterns from my oxy/acet training days in my mig welding and they seem to work just fine. Do u also incorporate certain patterns across the board in different types of welding?
Wow! Great video, I dun did learnd something today. Thank you, Dual shield sounds like a great option to give some thought to. 👍👍
Great video. I’d love to see a comparison like this throwing some .045 or .052 metal core in the mix. We’ve almost jumped ship on the flux core in favor of it. They all have their place, but we are really taking a liking to the metal core lately. Again, great content as always. 👍🏻👍🏻
great video jody...thanks a lot.m always waiting yr vid.🙂🙏
Great video quality too Jody 👊🏻
You the man Jody thanks for the awesome video
I feel arc is still the winner, but it shows you have a very fast and effective way to mig weld as well. There is nothing wrong either way. Very nicely done ✅
Another outstanding video, thanks!
Great demo, you make it look easy!
Fascinating!! Thank you for including the cut'n'etch, very important. Almost got me thinkin' of hanging up my stinger and grabbing a gun.....almost😉
Must be charging by the hour!
Hi Jody, the most likely reason you had problems with arc blow and JD didn’t was because you were still welding at the same time as JD so you were both cancelling out any magnetic field but when JD stopped welding and you carried on the magnetic field was allowed to build up giving you problems, arc blow is always worse at the end of any fillet and is always as a result of magnetism, and opposing poles, one way to make it more manageable is to switch to AC, of course you then have more problems with spatter!, we used to use magnetic arc deflection ((basically controlled arc blow) to run a weave using semi automatic TIG machines when welding deep narrow gap butts with a static tungsten, another trick when stick welding pipe butts that were having problems with arc blow especially when trying to put in a root run was to get a mate to wind a few turns of his tong cable round the pipe just below the butt and weld on a piece of scrap with 5mm or 6mm rods while you welded the butt as this would cancel out the magnetic field, old tricks now but they worked a treat when site welding a 50mm W/T butt 1 metre in diameter and 10 metres long on a rig jacket 😊 another excellent video by the way 👍
Arc blow and ground position video YES PLEASE!
Really nice work.
thanks for the great videos, could you tell me what wire gage to use for a 240 application
Need more videos and Pod cast!!!!
Very nice tutorial.
thanks Bob, see you at Fabtech
Question. I was looking at the grain structure of the weldment on the dualshield cut and etch. I noticed that the grain orientation was nearly straight into the corner of the weld, and that the fan was from the arc cone to toward all the edges of the weld. When you do your etching do you see similar grain structures in the Mig or Arc welds? Also do you know if the grain structure and the surface tension at the surface of the weld is different than that at the toe or edge of the weld puddle. I was thinking about differential cooling and how it might allow the inner parts of the pool to anneal compared to the surface of the weld. I imagine that it accounts for some of the pull that happens when tacking, and welding.
I’d like to see you do a video on .045 dual shield on stainless. I’ve ran a bunch of it being a tank builder. Just like to see how you would do it
A video on 1/16 dual shield would be really interesting. We run lots here in Wyoming
Great comparison thanks.
Stick welding uphill with 7018 is definitely something i need to practice on. Gotta remember to put some time to that the next time I've got the everlast welder out.
It's definitely not as hard as I thought it was once I got some plates covered ! You got it man !
Another Neverlast spam.
Funny description @ 7:10, good 0' shop talk.
Dual Shield is the only way to go in a shop environment. But out in the field with wind, dust, rust, grime, and constantly moving around up 300 feet all the way down to ground-level within the hour arc welding is the only way to go and will never be replaced👌
I use dual shield in the field all day every day. Dust, rust, and grime don't bother me because I either grind it fresh or blast it out down hill. Has to be pretty windy to be a bother. The only time I might use stick is if like you say- far up a ladder and I only have 6" of welding to do!
Can always set up a small tent or wind blocker. The time spent doing that will be less than switching rods constantly and when doing bridge welding it’s a pain cause the environmentalist never would allow you to drop rod stubs
@gekkoukasane1713 if you think not being able to throw your stubs anywhere you want is an inconvenience, I understand how you would think dual shield is better in the field. Just plain lack of experience.
Have you ever ran a millermatic 252? Having trouble with verticle where the metal wants to hump in the middle. I was running around 24v and 275ipm .045. I tried to fine tune and it was just horrible aggravating me. The metal thickness varied. It was 1/4 gussets to a 3/8 plate.
I see the machine has a FLUX CORE setting, but is there any adjustment that is used to take into account that this is dual shield? Also what is the electrode setting, Electrode Negative or Positive?
Thanks for all yourr work. It would be really cool to talk about the effects of the welding gases used for Steel FCAW (CO2 vs Argon + CO2 Mix) how it affects the bead, the parameters etc. A good topic for the future . Thanks again.
Peter, I'm just a hobby welder, getting back into it after 35 years of absence, but when I was shopping for a dual-shield wire I was looking at Esab's website, where they offered different wires for different gasses. Just FYI. I chose their 710X-M, as I already have C25, but their newer (I think?) 7100X Ultra was designed for both C25 & straight CO2. So far I'm loving it! (Along with my new Rebel 285 machine! ;-D )
i knew all you said. i just wanted to know the impact of different gas while welding with FCAW. How it affect voltage, penetration, profile of the weld...etc...
The flux core really penetrates.
Question did JD like the Esab 285 better than his Lincoln MP 210
Where can I get one of those white pipeline helmets with the flip front?
Dual shield is the shit in my opinion since on my one and only 3G mig test which was dual shield I did a stringer root and weaved it all the way out which I was allowed to do but my weave on my cap was over a half inch or so on both sides and it was a wide weave but my hot and fill passes were pretty. I had all 4 bend straps pass
Jodi, what polarity where you two using with the Esab 7100 wire?
Loved it 💯
hello jody,can you give me any tips how to avoid overlap on fluxcore start n stop weld.i get a problem with that,😅..sory for bad english..i hope you can help me..fans from malaysia..☺
I am a bit confused about dual shield. Can't you just use standard fluxcore and CO2?
+weldingtipsandtricks So i have a few questions about the dual shield flux cored process. I have before welded 4G with the same size wire with and without, ZERO manipulation of the gun. I took a weld test last friday and the wire used was 1/6" flux cored, dual shielded. First time using that specific size wire. Felt very confident with the test and everything looked good although i was not able run a single pass without manipulating the gun. I was fortunate enough to get a feel for the machine and dial my settings in on a piece of scrap prior to the test. But again i wasnt able to find the correct settings to run stringers or any pass for that matter without manipulating the gun. Does wire size depend on whether or not you can weld 4G with or without manipulating the gun??? Has anyone else welded 4G with 1/6" flux cored dual shielded wire?
What product do you apply for see the penetration? Thanks.
Hey guys. Please do a dual-shield how to with stainless plates.
Thanks!!
Love me some 3/32 dual shield
Thank you
28 and 280. That's the golden ticket
teacher ,regards from colombia
What’s that stuff he rubbed on it
Are you going to be at fabtech this year.
hi, first of all: GREAT VIDEOS.
I have a question: what are the cons if I weld with MIG by making many little spot welds instead a continouse weld. Apart that it is slover, are there other cons ?
No heat build up wont penetrate the metal very well at all
Esab rebel just a outstanding welding machine 💯🇺🇸💪👍
The god father oj welding did it again with great video thanks Jody
I use 1/16 flux core wire and I have a weld test tomorrow... All position check test. I'd like to see a video on 1/16 overhead welding. I know it's heavy wire but I would like some advice. It seems like I have to weave verticle up with that wire to get it flat. Any suggestions?
I use 1/16 dual shield every day. Was actually doing over head today welding a fishing boat. Using 75/25 I leave my machine set at 26 volts and 185 for the wire speed for all positions 3/16-3/8 material thickness. Biggest mistake I see is guys move to quickly. Let the puddle fan out almost completely and then start to push, keeping your puddle width uniform.
Great video, I would like to see some actual projects like on the older videos. Seeing scrap all the time gers a bit tiresome.
I was going to try dual shield with my Everlast welder, but the board burned up.
Neverlast are garbage thats why they have to pay people to Spam and try and make brand relevant.
I remember a video with dual shield in a lincoln 210mp. Is there a general all around wire and size for that machine? Any settings thoughts for that?
Thats kind of hard to say given the number of variables and most machines don't really have a general wire size but instead a middle of the road wire like .030 (non flux core wire for example) might work well in a lot of applications. The 210 is an excellent machine. I'd just go with its recommended settings as a starting point and adjust from there. Dual shield wire tends to run larger and runs up to 1/16" so you will need to make sure your rollers and whatnot are right and you will expect to use more voltage so if you are on 110v and running on thick metal you may not get what you need. So I know I didn't exactly answer your question but hopefully it gives you some things to watch for and make your welding easier.
on the lincoln 210mp .035" seems to be the best all around size. runs good off a generator too
I've even seen dual shield wire up to 1/8th inch! Huge stuff!
I want to try some dual shield in my Everlast welder.
Another Neverlast Spam.
On duel shield how is it out in the field with wind and the elements compared to stick? Any comments
Stick is more forgiving outside. no doubt . But I have seen JD use Dual shield outside a lot.
If you are working in the elements a lot the you can use self shielding flux core. It is just like SMAW in respect to shielding in windy conditions.
Can a dual shield wire like you used be used in a situation that calls out for low hydrogen filler?
If you use a specific wire designated by an engineer, yes. Dual shield is essentially 7018 inside-ouy
brilliant
Wow. That dual shield flux got great penetration. Definitely a compelling argument for the amount of time it saved as well. Any downside?
down sides are cost for the wire and welding in windy conditions is more difficult than with stick . For a business like JDs, cost of wire is more than worth it for increased speed. He typically bids all his work so any time saved is money
weldingtipsandtricks good points. Time is the only resource you can’t buy more of.
Don't forget, it is HOT. That means you need to pay attention to warpage, much more so than MIG.
The flux core wire has a short shelf life..especially around moisture. You will find lots of porosity when the wire is expired.. usually lasts 2to 6 months.. once opened. But I would choose lincoln 71m or trimark tm770 wire over 7018 for general fabrication in the shop .
Revisiting these videos now that I’m gaining experience on this. Gas Shielded Flux is really hot. But man it runs nice. Definitely enjoying the difference between this and running stick. Now that I’ve actually welded stick my appreciation for your skill on that is 10x.
Great video again Jody
How do costs compare, between 7018 and dualshield ?
That's what I'm wondering?
In man hours or materials?
That was interesting
Try that with dual shield straight co2
Hey Jodi, would running that 7018 on AC help prevent that arc blow problem?
7018 is a DC rod only. But you can buy 7018,AC rod which they make now.
it would. 7018 will run on AC on most newer square wave machines but not on all older AC buzz box machines. I used to run AC with 7018 all the time on a miller syncrowave when arc blow was a problem
Thanks for the up date; I'm still from the old school and not up on the newest technologies.
Hey Jody why do they use the stick welding process instead of flux core in the pipe line industry?
I'd think it's a mobility issue...
Looks like dual shield might be the solution for my biggest problem welding-- impatience. I get in a hurry and try to move faster than the weld puddle wants to. The down side is the cost to get set up for no more than I would use it.
Assuming you already have gas, it's only a new roll of wire, and changing your WFS/voltage settings.
How bout running some 7016
What wire did JD use?
Esab 7100 ultra .045". good stuff
Nice
WHAT KIND OF LEMS IS THAT!!?? ANYBODY KNOW?????
Try 232 inner shield
The only dumb questions are the ones you don't ask? Right? With that said. What is the strength of the dual sheild? An how would you know depth of penetration on the cut an etch? Or how much depth of penetration do you need to achieve the maximum strength of the dual sheild?
What kind of gas does dual shield flux core use ? Argon and co2 ?
You can use straight CO2 or 75/25, but you may want to talk to someone about which wire you are using. I gather there are wires that are better suited to one and wires that work better with the other.
Custom Haines thank you sir I’ll make sure to do more research and continue to strive to be a better welder I was the day before
You and I both.
Shhhhhhh. Class is in session.
Dual shield is great stuff but damn it's pricey. If you're running a shop and pay people to weld dual shield will pay for it's self and then some.
Are these settings for real?? I've only just begun being a welder, and we use dual shield flux. For my weld test, I had to do a 15 inch vertical stinger on a T joint. They had been using the machine to run on the flat position so it was at 185 inches per minute and 26 volts. That was entirely too much and I still tried it. Came out all sh!$$/. They said I HAD to adjust, but one of the guys had said it was good settings, to try it. Anyway, I went to what was more comfortable for me from school, 135 inches per minute and 19.6 Volts. My welds were great and I was hired. It just blows mind the kind of settings a lot of guys on YT weld at and it doesn't appear like so. The travel speed seems like a turtle's pace for so much heat and electrode being fed
Hey Jody, you convinced me to give dual shield a try! I am going to buy a roll, any suggestions on brand and type for .045? General fab work.
Love your work keep it up!
Esab 7100 ultra. Use 045 to start and move up to 1/16 when you feel more comfortable with the process
When you cut and etch could you spend more time explaining what you’re looking for.
Me gustan mucho sus vídeos buen maestro; si hubiera la manera de agregarle subtítulo en español sería genial, Gracias
subtitles are quick !
Maestralno
semiautomatic, demonitized.
Vishal
سلام
goated
Который раз смотрю твои видео . Всё понятно пока руками разводиш... Как только разговор----полный затык. Не знаю я твоего языка вовсе и неревести некогда всем... Дай возможность НАШИМ ПАРНЯМ переводить твои ВЕЛИКОЛЕПНЫЕ ВИДЕО РЕКЛАМЫ,УРОКИ, ОБЬЯСНЯШКИ . В САМОМ ДЕЛЕ ТЕМА МНЕ ПОНЯТНАЯ , НО СЛУШАЮ НОРМАЛЬНОГО ЧЕЛОВЕКА ,КАК ИНОПЛАНЕТЯНИНА. Я НЕ ЗНАЮ КАК ТАМ ЭТО ВСЁ ДЕЛАЕТСЯ ??? ОДИН ПЕРЕВОД Я ВИДЕЛ ---- ПЕРЕПРОВЕРИТЬ НЕМОГУ ,НО МНЕ И ЭТОГО БЫЛО ДОСТАТОЧНО... ДАЙ ТВОЁ ДОБРО НА ПЕРЕВОД И В ЮТУБ .НАРОД БУДЕТ БЛАГОДАРЕН И ТВОЮ ПРОДУКЦИЮ ВСЕМ РАЗРЕКЛАМИРУЮТ...С УВАЖЕНИЕМ ВЛАД КРАСНОЯРСК. НЕ ДУМАЙ ,ЧТО ВСЕ ТАК ХРЕНОВО ПИШУТ,ПОПАДАЮТСЯ И ПРОФЕССОРА. ОЧЕНЬ ЖДУ ОТВЕТА.ИНТЕРЕСНАЯ ШТУКА ИНТЕРНЕТ!!!
ถ้ามีตู้แบบนี้..กุเชื่อมสวยกว่ามึงอีก
You should give 1/16” DualShield wire with 100% co2.... let’s just say you gotta move fast!
Уважаемый, если у вас есть возможность сделать русские титры, многие русские скажут вам спасибо)