The orange fitting you're looking at is an SMC "Universal Thread" fitting. The fitting seals on the metal gasket and the thread is intended to screw into both NPT & BSPT female taps. Hence why it's "shortened".
Michal That makes no sense. NPT threads use a 60 deg threadform angle, BSP uses a 55 deg thread form angle. You can’t put a BSP into a NPT threaded hole. Least not with any kind of success. SMC universals are for the compression fitting for the air tubing side, not the pipe fitting size. The compression fitting is sized to accept both standard and metic tubing of a similar size. The pipe threaded section is a fixed BSP or NPT thread. Not a “universal” thread that will fit into either, because they can’t do so without either thread seal failure or thread engagement failure.
from 1/8 to 3/8 there is "one" tpi difference between npt and bsp, not to mention the pitch dia difference due to the mentioned 55 vs 60 deg thread form so universal is not a pipe thread.
@@Innov8cnc Directly of the SMC Pneumatics UK Site: "By using fittings with the uni-thread, tubing can be connected to parts which use parallel as well as taper-type threads in British Standard Pipe as well as National Pipe Thread (US standard). Assembly times can reportedly be cut by around 75 per cent, freeing up maintenance engineers to focus on more pressing issues. The seal is made by an NBR laminated stainless steel gasket and is suitable for all female threads with a standard 45-degree chamfer"
Michal If they make a fitting that universally fits NPT and BSP. Why do they still make thread specific fittings? I looked them up, the uni-fits have the same operating pressure claims as their standard fittings. I smell the strong scent of marketing wank on this one. The amount you’d have to truncate a thread to have it fit both NPT and BSP would seriously weaken the connection. Either way. I wouldn’t trust a “universal” thread like that on anything but an aquarium air bubbler.
@@occamssawzall3486 Hey, i have personally used these fittings on pressures on up to 10 bar with no issues. They seal on a metal gasket on a face of the fitting.
I believe the shortened fitting they have is a "universal" fitting. It's designed to fit multiple thread types. Similar to McMaster part number 51235K127. I could be wrong though.
Alex, I had similar issues with a job I did not too long ago. An alternate way to do this, is using a multi tooth NPT cutter. You can program it with cutter comp and offset the wear until you have the fit you need, or adjust the PDO in your CAM to walk out the thread. In the case of the 3rd fitting, you would have a PDO smaller than nominal. Makes it super convenient. Thought I'd share.
I cut quite a lot of NPT, and other tapered threads on oil, and gas parts. Not one of the threads milled had a gauge put near it? I use step limit gauges to determine when i'm in tolerance for the hand tight thread diameter. The NPT spec also has nominal threaded lengths for female fittings (ANSI/ASME B1.20.1/3). How can you even tell if your thread is anywhere near in tolerance on a tapered thread without a gauge? The third fitting with the o-ring is definitely not NPT, 1/4 19tpi BSP would possibly screw like that into a 1/4" NPT thread.
i'm with you Matthew - I have a full set of NPT and BSP thread gauges up to 1.5" because it's the only way to know if you've got the correct size/engagement. Just because a fitting screws in doesn't make it right. That being said, sometimes with job shop stuff it's just a case of "make this fit in here" type work where this method is perfectly acceptable. i'd probably just put a "stock to leave" in stead though to close up the hole.
@@TravisHammeng I agree with you that there's a time and a place for get'r'done type threading. When you're making a thread for a customer it should be right though. I'm guilty of not having a gauge for a thread, and bore mic'ing the minor diameter to hit mid tolerance, using a full form insert, or threadmill. My take on the video was it was trying to teach you how to correctly cut an NPT thread, they never even mention how to gauge the thread. I would have thought with NYC CNC's level of experience, they could have even measured the hand tight engagement, and got it approximately right.
Man I whish I could learn about npt threading like you!. I wonder how can I make threads look shine and smooth with the proper blunt start for high pressure npt fittings
If you look at your shortened thread you will see a black ring on it. This is a seal to prevent leaking. The seal is not on the threads, although with enough teflon tape you can get most things to seal... You should also look at adding lookup tables to your spreadsheet, it can simplify adding the data by hand for common threads leaving a lot less room for error
I've never actually used cutter comp "on the control" because i've got an old Mazak M2 controlled mill and heard that it can slow things up - and i definitely don't need anything else slowing this dinosaur down :P Not a problem John would have with the controllers on his machines though i wouldn't think. have you got any experience with this?
Travis Hammond how do you know it would slow it down if you have never tried? It shouldn’t make any difference. I have never milled a thread without using cutter comp. a tapered thread is one thing. But a straight thread needs to fit properly within a tolerance. In order to do that without cutter comp you will have to reprocess cod with every cutter diameter change. Than again as the cutter wears. What a pain and time consuming.
@@EdgePrecision that's it - basically when i started this using fusion and my VMC i had no idea about anything, so went the most simple path and just believed the interwebs, then it just became one of those things i got used to. I'd just change the "stock to leave" and re-post the code. because the controller is so slow/old/small i have to drip feed nearly everything anyway, so it isn't a big deal to have to repost some code, but using wear comp would probably be a much more seamless way of doing it. Also i don't generally do any qty over 50 in the mill, and then it's generally not tight tolerances, so actually using wear compensation for tool wear isn't so much a thing i need to do. Most straight threads i do are either just tapped, so i haven't really ever had any tolerancing on milled straight threads. (turned stuff is a different story) BTW I love your channel and appreciate that you take the time to address peoples comments. also i'm super jealous of your integrex. my old qt10 and st30atc/mc are a whole different league :P
That fitting is a SMC unifit. It works with npt or bsp. The seal is made by the coated ring. The threads are loose to allow it to work with both threads.
I think you guys are confused on the thread application, use a thread gage that corresponds with the profile you need to cut. Don't guess at this stuff, study and be certain or you could have an unhappy customer.
I noticed you use L4 for the nominal depth of the hole, but wouldn't it be L1 + L3 for the real depth. According to SCT's online calculator that's what they show as well, Their depth equals L1 + L3.
Hi Alex, Just wondering how you got the angle for the taper. According to the machinery handbook it should be a 1 in 16 taper. The half angle is 1 in 32 which equals tan-1(1/32) = 1.789910. I've used this for producing NPT holes for a while, seems to work ok. It would be interesting to see how close this all works using a stepped limit gauge.
I really enjoy most of the NYC CNC videos, but every so often one bothers me. This video is offered to be informative but is offering information that is glaringly incorrect. The big problem here is those without the knowledge to know any different will take this information as correct. Keep up the videos but please try to avoid disseminating incorrect information. A good rule of thumb is if your fitting doesn't work with the thread standard, it's not meant for that type of thread.
If using an already-tapered exocarb OSG NPT thread mill, would a simple thread mill tool path work with a optimized bottom-top single pass work starting with a straight pilot hole? It appears that the tapered tool geometry machines the taper into the hole (heavier at the top than the bottom).
Do you know you can use Section Analysis in the Inspect menu to get a slice of your entire model/assembly? Would help to show off the taper angle, fit of the fittings etc. Thanks for the video.
I think your “shortened” are not NPT fittings. They look like a BSP or BSPP. If it has an o-ring face seal, it’s a BSPP, which is not a tapered thread. It’s also not a 60 deg thread form. All BSP and BSPP threads are a 55deg thread form. Can’t use a 60 deg thread mill to cut these, the thread form will be incorrect
i wish there is something like tis for turning.man as a european ,npt threading is hell .why is it so hard to get the right dimensions,same for bspt ..but thx for vid always enjoying your video's
Great video/info! Thanks for sharing! Buddy you could really speed up your modeling " GET A SPACE MOUSE!!!" Painfull to watch you limp around the screen.
as soon as cheap plumbing fittings started coming from overseas, it all went to hell in a hand basket. Hence, gobs of teflon tape sold in the plumbing aisles.....
thecrayonguy Either NPS (rare) or BSPP. You don’t use a face seal if one or both of the threads are tapered. Completely defeats the purpose of a tapered thread or a face seal. Either the taper in the threads engages first, meaning the face seal won’t seat correctly, or the face seal engages first and the tapered threads don’t seal. Face seals are only used on straight (NPS) or parallel (BSPP) pipe fittings.
Occams Sawzall by design no. But what they are using is a SMC uni-fit push connect fitting that’s designed to fit different multiple types of holes. IDK why these are a thing though, I got them once by accident and I was puzzled at first. www.smcusa.com/products/KQ2-Unifit-One-touch-Fitting-for-Metric-Size-Tube-Rc-G-NPT-NPTF-Connection-Thread-New-Series~87063
As a mechanical engineer, it is my professional opinion to completely stop using ANY inch based fittings,fasteners, pipe sizes, as well as fahrenheit, gallons, psi, footpounds and all other stupidity units some countries cling on to! By far the worst example of this mismatch in standards is that of the pipe fittings, it is just too stupid! Anyone who is in favour of maintaining this crap is obviously not working with the stuff or/and should have his/her head examined!
Another ME here. I also prefer metric and wish we’d change. But...A lot of those metric countries seem to use BSPT for tapered threads. Also inch based.
pipe fittings are a nightmare, But you can't just stop using existing standards as there are a lot of things that still need support for them. Any new project with no existing interfaces, sure, but the worst thing I have seen is introducing Metric into a existing project already using some other form of measurement.
Brian Packard changing standard witthin an existing project is never good, but my point is for engineers to ALLWAYS look for metric parts whereever possible. The sooner we all do that the sooner we can get rid of the mismatch in units.
Not a single mention of pitch diameter, sad face. John I'm shocked you're running npt jobs without thread gauges. Whenever you work with a dimensional taper you HAVE to relate a diameter to a depth, use a ball bearing and relate the depth it sits at to a known perpendicular plane or conversely a ring gauge.
The orange fitting you're looking at is an SMC "Universal Thread" fitting.
The fitting seals on the metal gasket and the thread is intended to screw into both NPT & BSPT female taps. Hence why it's "shortened".
Michal
That makes no sense. NPT threads use a 60 deg threadform angle, BSP uses a 55 deg thread form angle.
You can’t put a BSP into a NPT threaded hole. Least not with any kind of success.
SMC universals are for the compression fitting for the air tubing side, not the pipe fitting size. The compression fitting is sized to accept both standard and metic tubing of a similar size.
The pipe threaded section is a fixed BSP or NPT thread. Not a “universal” thread that will fit into either, because they can’t do so without either thread seal failure or thread engagement failure.
from 1/8 to 3/8 there is "one" tpi difference between npt and bsp, not to mention the pitch dia difference due to the mentioned 55 vs 60 deg thread form so universal is not a pipe thread.
@@Innov8cnc Directly of the SMC Pneumatics UK Site:
"By using fittings with the uni-thread, tubing can be connected to parts which use parallel as well as taper-type threads in British Standard Pipe as well as National Pipe Thread (US standard). Assembly times can reportedly be cut by around 75 per cent, freeing up maintenance engineers to focus on more pressing issues. The seal is made by an NBR laminated stainless steel gasket and is suitable for all female threads with a standard 45-degree chamfer"
Michal
If they make a fitting that universally fits NPT and BSP.
Why do they still make thread specific fittings?
I looked them up, the uni-fits have the same operating pressure claims as their standard fittings.
I smell the strong scent of marketing wank on this one. The amount you’d have to truncate a thread to have it fit both NPT and BSP would seriously weaken the connection.
Either way. I wouldn’t trust a “universal” thread like that on anything but an aquarium air bubbler.
@@occamssawzall3486 Hey, i have personally used these fittings on pressures on up to 10 bar with no issues. They seal on a metal gasket on a face of the fitting.
Very handy info, just got a job requiring 1.5"-11.5 NPT threaded holes, decided to thread mill the parts to save 500 bucks on a tap
your shortened fitting is not npt, looks like maybe ORB or BSPP? Uses a straight thread and seals on the face.
I believe the shortened fitting they have is a "universal" fitting. It's designed to fit multiple thread types. Similar to McMaster part number 51235K127. I could be wrong though.
similar to parker oring port.
Alex, I had similar issues with a job I did not too long ago. An alternate way to do this, is using a multi tooth NPT cutter. You can program it with cutter comp and offset the wear until you have the fit you need, or adjust the PDO in your CAM to walk out the thread. In the case of the 3rd fitting, you would have a PDO smaller than nominal. Makes it super convenient. Thought I'd share.
I cut quite a lot of NPT, and other tapered threads on oil, and gas parts. Not one of the threads milled had a gauge put near it? I use step limit gauges to determine when i'm in tolerance for the hand tight thread diameter. The NPT spec also has nominal threaded lengths for female fittings (ANSI/ASME B1.20.1/3). How can you even tell if your thread is anywhere near in tolerance on a tapered thread without a gauge? The third fitting with the o-ring is definitely not NPT, 1/4 19tpi BSP would possibly screw like that into a 1/4" NPT thread.
i'm with you Matthew - I have a full set of NPT and BSP thread gauges up to 1.5" because it's the only way to know if you've got the correct size/engagement. Just because a fitting screws in doesn't make it right.
That being said, sometimes with job shop stuff it's just a case of "make this fit in here" type work where this method is perfectly acceptable. i'd probably just put a "stock to leave" in stead though to close up the hole.
@@TravisHammeng I agree with you that there's a time and a place for get'r'done type threading. When you're making a thread for a customer it should be right though. I'm guilty of not having a gauge for a thread, and bore mic'ing the minor diameter to hit mid tolerance, using a full form insert, or threadmill. My take on the video was it was trying to teach you how to correctly cut an NPT thread, they never even mention how to gauge the thread. I would have thought with NYC CNC's level of experience, they could have even measured the hand tight engagement, and got it approximately right.
Man I whish I could learn about npt threading like you!. I wonder how can I make threads look shine and smooth with the proper blunt start for high pressure npt fittings
If you look at your shortened thread you will see a black ring on it. This is a seal to prevent leaking. The seal is not on the threads, although with enough teflon tape you can get most things to seal...
You should also look at adding lookup tables to your spreadsheet, it can simplify adding the data by hand for common threads leaving a lot less room for error
yess, that was unexpectedly interesting, thanks!
Alex-Just wanted to say you are a great presenter.
Are you not using cutter comp (I think Fusion calls this in control)?
I've never actually used cutter comp "on the control" because i've got an old Mazak M2 controlled mill and heard that it can slow things up - and i definitely don't need anything else slowing this dinosaur down :P Not a problem John would have with the controllers on his machines though i wouldn't think. have you got any experience with this?
Travis Hammond how do you know it would slow it down if you have never tried? It shouldn’t make any difference. I have never milled a thread without using cutter comp. a tapered thread is one thing. But a straight thread needs to fit properly within a tolerance. In order to do that without cutter comp you will have to reprocess cod with every cutter diameter change. Than again as the cutter wears. What a pain and time consuming.
@@EdgePrecision that's it - basically when i started this using fusion and my VMC i had no idea about anything, so went the most simple path and just believed the interwebs, then it just became one of those things i got used to. I'd just change the "stock to leave" and re-post the code. because the controller is so slow/old/small i have to drip feed nearly everything anyway, so it isn't a big deal to have to repost some code, but using wear comp would probably be a much more seamless way of doing it.
Also i don't generally do any qty over 50 in the mill, and then it's generally not tight tolerances, so actually using wear compensation for tool wear isn't so much a thing i need to do.
Most straight threads i do are either just tapped, so i haven't really ever had any tolerancing on milled straight threads. (turned stuff is a different story)
BTW I love your channel and appreciate that you take the time to address peoples comments. also i'm super jealous of your integrex. my old qt10 and st30atc/mc are a whole different league :P
That fitting is a SMC unifit. It works with npt or bsp. The seal is made by the coated ring. The threads are loose to allow it to work with both threads.
the "cutoff" thread is called a short projection npt
Thanks! Couldn't find the industry name for this when I looked
This is an excellent video, it explained to me the reason some of the fitting I had bought didnt work properly
For normal holes or anything that's not a straight extrude, we use a revolve feature instead of extrude.
O-ring? Probably not a tapered fitting as it doesn't need one to seal property.
It looks like an O-ring in the video, but is actually a metal clip iirc. Measuring the OD of the threads did show a taper
I think you guys are confused on the thread application, use a thread gage that corresponds with the profile you need to cut. Don't guess at this stuff, study and be certain or you could have an unhappy customer.
Love you guys, but you have much learning to do about threads and fittings. :)
I noticed you use L4 for the nominal depth of the hole, but wouldn't it be L1 + L3 for the real depth. According to SCT's online calculator that's what they show as well, Their depth equals L1 + L3.
Hi Alex, Just wondering how you got the angle for the taper. According to the machinery handbook it should be a 1 in 16 taper. The half angle is 1 in 32 which equals tan-1(1/32) = 1.789910. I've used this for producing NPT holes for a while, seems to work ok. It would be interesting to see how close this all works using a stepped limit gauge.
I really enjoy most of the NYC CNC videos, but every so often one bothers me. This video is offered to be informative but is offering information that is glaringly incorrect. The big problem here is those without the knowledge to know any different will take this information as correct. Keep up the videos but please try to avoid disseminating incorrect information. A good rule of thumb is if your fitting doesn't work with the thread standard, it's not meant for that type of thread.
If using an already-tapered exocarb OSG NPT thread mill, would a simple thread mill tool path work with a optimized bottom-top single pass work starting with a straight pilot hole? It appears that the tapered tool geometry machines the taper into the hole (heavier at the top than the bottom).
Do you know you can use Section Analysis in the Inspect menu to get a slice of your entire model/assembly?
Would help to show off the taper angle, fit of the fittings etc.
Thanks for the video.
I think your “shortened” are not NPT fittings. They look like a BSP or BSPP. If it has an o-ring face seal, it’s a BSPP, which is not a tapered thread. It’s also not a 60 deg thread form. All BSP and BSPP threads are a 55deg thread form. Can’t use a 60 deg thread mill to cut these, the thread form will be incorrect
How did you find the length of the different type holes?. There is a nominal chart but there doesn't talk anything about cutoff or shortened lenghts
Your "shortened" fitting looks to be a -02 ORB fitting which is 5/16-24 or -03 which is 3/8-24 straight thread not NPT.
What happens if i tight a NPT fitting all the way? or there is a way to make it shorter? because a lot of thread is out
Where can we found the short fitting hole depths?
Need help with thread milling 304 Stainless
i wish there is something like tis for turning.man as a european ,npt threading is hell .why is it so hard to get the right dimensions,same for bspt ..but thx for vid always enjoying your video's
Great video/info! Thanks for sharing! Buddy you could really speed up your modeling " GET A SPACE MOUSE!!!" Painfull to watch you limp around the screen.
I use a 3DConnexion CAD mouse at my work PC, but I used my personal laptop for recording :)
as soon as cheap plumbing fittings started coming from overseas, it all went to hell in a hand basket. Hence, gobs of teflon tape sold in the plumbing aisles.....
Looks like a BSPT / NPT thread with a metal face seal.
thecrayonguy
Either NPS (rare) or BSPP.
You don’t use a face seal if one or both of the threads are tapered. Completely defeats the purpose of a tapered thread or a face seal. Either the taper in the threads engages first, meaning the face seal won’t seat correctly, or the face seal engages first and the tapered threads don’t seal.
Face seals are only used on straight (NPS) or parallel (BSPP) pipe fittings.
Occams Sawzall by design no. But what they are using is a SMC uni-fit push connect fitting that’s designed to fit different multiple types of holes. IDK why these are a thing though, I got them once by accident and I was puzzled at first.
www.smcusa.com/products/KQ2-Unifit-One-touch-Fitting-for-Metric-Size-Tube-Rc-G-NPT-NPTF-Connection-Thread-New-Series~87063
As a mechanical engineer, it is my professional opinion to completely stop using ANY inch based fittings,fasteners, pipe sizes, as well as fahrenheit, gallons, psi, footpounds and all other stupidity units some countries cling on to!
By far the worst example of this mismatch in standards is that of the pipe fittings, it is just too stupid!
Anyone who is in favour of maintaining this crap is obviously not working with the stuff or/and should have his/her head examined!
Another ME here. I also prefer metric and wish we’d change. But...A lot of those metric countries seem to use BSPT for tapered threads. Also inch based.
David Waters agree, bsp and bspt should also be replaced.
pipe fittings are a nightmare, But you can't just stop using existing standards as there are a lot of things that still need support for them. Any new project with no existing interfaces, sure, but the worst thing I have seen is introducing Metric into a existing project already using some other form of measurement.
Brian Packard changing standard witthin an existing project is never good, but my point is for engineers to ALLWAYS look for metric parts whereever possible. The sooner we all do that the sooner we can get rid of the mismatch in units.
Not a single mention of pitch diameter, sad face. John I'm shocked you're running npt jobs without thread gauges.
Whenever you work with a dimensional taper you HAVE to relate a diameter to a depth, use a ball bearing and relate the depth it sits at to a known perpendicular plane or conversely a ring gauge.
WRONG !