They Took the Bro Code TOO FAR! - Shogun - Season 1 Eps 8 Reaction
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- čas přidán 2. 08. 2024
- Jay and Adam react, review, riff, and rate the eighth, high stakes gamble, episode of Shogun.
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Toranaga is a different breed. He has to live with these sacrifices. Toranaga has an unwavering commitment to the cause. I also love that he made his son's rather meaningless death meaningful. He really is the man we think he is.
"The man who stands at the greatest height is the loneliest man in the realm"
Agree 1000%. I didn't always believe him when he said he never sought to be Shogun, but now I know it's true. He NEEDS to be Shogun, no matter what it costs him, for the sake of Japan.
He really is built differently!
Subtext that was missed in the seppuku scene: Hiromatsu had figured out Toranaga's plan. He even tells the other guys that Toranaga was going to fight, or else he wouldn't have sent the priest with a message. That means that Hiromatsu went into his final meeting knowing what he had to do... but that also means that Toranaga didn't want Hiromatsu to die; he even tries to get one of the other generals to 'fess up and do it. But Hiromatsu yells at everyone to shut up, and makes sure to sacrifice himself so that Toranaga keeps all his top military minds. Hiromatsu did, indeed, know his duty well.
The nonverbal face acting in this show is legit insane 🙌
I love how Hiromatsu had a raised eyebrow when he knew more was happening than what was said, and, after he died and Toranaga showed the emotion he needed to, you can see the shot on Toranaga ends with him doing Hiromatsu’s raised eyebrow in his honor. 😢
Yeah!!
Puns aside, I think what Mariko said to Buntaro is the most brutal thing I’ve ever heard one human say to another. He deserved it, but holy cow it was incendiary. She’s so fkn *metal*
Yea it was brutal man I was dying
@@npierce14if it was me? Seppuku on the spot
and then a few scenes later he has to behead his own father. Buntaro did not have a good day.
@@madeking4 And his father used his final words to lay some burns as well.
I like Buntaro because he feels sad and real, but at the same time he's still a toxic abusive psycho who's obsessed with keeping his wife all to himself. He knows that she's far too awesome for the likes of him. She runs circles around him every time they interact.
So on the official podcast, the creators said Toronaga didn't know that it would be Hiromatsu who would sacrifice himself to convince Osaka that he was surrendering. He figured it would be one of the others. But Hiromatsu knew that his death would be the most meaningful. He also wanted to spare the others.
I was coming here to say this! Lol it changed how I experienced the episode on a rewatch. Like the level of loyalty and love and respect reflected in their eyes ! I haven’t cried this hard for a character death since Opie in SOA.
"In one courageous final act...."
Toranaga was going to lose the support of 3 generals. But Hiromatsu took it upon himself to make Osaka believe his defeat is real with the honorable sacrifice of his own life.
Incredible!
I'll put it simply... the seppuku that occurred was to support the internal conflict of his friend Toranaga and at the same time save the 3 generals behind him... if he didn't do the seppuku everyone there would fall. a sacrifice in every dimension.
Hiromatsu knew. He served his lord by sacrificing himself, to make Toranaga's ruse even more believable, because only a truly defeated man would allow his most loyal servant and older friend to perform seppuku in protest. Not just that, he also convinced the rest of Toranaga's general from performing seppuku themselves, as his sacrifice would convince them that Toranaga was indeed committed to his defeat, making their potential sacrifice pointless.
"You got city planned!" 🤣
Zoned!😂
You are right, Edo has grown since then. Its now a little place called Tokyo
小さな場所ではない。
It's a form of wit called sarcasm that was lost in translation 👍 @@user-up4gb6jt3d
Its amazing how this show can pull of so many powerful moments. Both the writing and the acting really is masterful.
Toronaga trolling the Jesuits by giving them land near the courtesans was just taking trolling to a whole other level.
I mean think of all the confessions!
I saw that priest's feet in the sand and was literally on the floor laughing before we even panned up to his face!
I took it as "You tried. I promised. But you also failed."
One thing you can say about Hiromatsu…he had some guts
I regret nothing
Hey-oh 😂
Puns help us deal with the shock.
I dislike this
@@npierce14❤️
19:37 if you notice: Toranaga give a subtle Deep eye blink of determination to hiromatsu when hiromatsu going to do seppuku, hiromatsu know that he is going to be victory and hes death pave the way :D the eye acting IS BEYOND. if you notice body language from toranaga to hiromatsu you notice... THIS IS ALL A PLAN!!
You can also see Toranaga do Hiromatsu’s signature eyebrow raise after his death and him showing enough of the emotion he was supposed to 😊
I am so ready for Mariko to kick some ass. I wonder if she's going to play into the traitor stereotype because of her father. I am just in awe of the acting in this show. Everyone, but in this episode especially, shout out to Omi's actor, because he was EATING. The long game. Apparently the seppuku scene is what sold the show to the actor who plays Hiromatsu, and I just stand up and applaud, because watching two veteran actors who have played period before, him and Sanada-san who plays Toronaga, amazing.
Also, this show and it's use (and lack thereof) of lighting. God it's gorgeous.
Part of the ride or die, is that Hiromatsu committing seppuku was it brought the other three lords in line. The ones that worse the armor to the funeral.
Gin and Kiku moment, (getting zoned) I think there is more insight there. "If you see nothing you must look harder" If Kiku is Gin student, and Gin see's that Toranaga MUST have a plan, she passed that along. Kiku was trying to get Kashigi that there is a plan, but he can not see it. (not saying she knew what it was, just that there is a plan)
The fact that Toranaga did end up giving Gin her plot of land seems to say that he does plan on a future. Even with the death of his son.
I think Omi is being taken to school here, and by the end he'll truly understand the value of loyalty and belief in someone/something greater than his own life.
I'm confused cos the synopsis of the book says that a guy named Yabu will betray them and right now they're building up yabushige as the lynchpin of the plan to help John attack Osaka so maybe it's omi who'll betray them
Yea man this hurt me a lot Miramatsu was my favorite character. He stole every scene he was in
Ok I finally see what's going on. Toranaga is the ebodiment of the Japanese philosophy of service to something greater than oneself. He has to keep everything hidden from everyone in order to sell this ploy of defeat, so that he can pull off a Trogan horse in Osaka and avoid a war that would destroy Edo and cost many lives. Only his closest friends can guess what he's doing and then play along. Hiromatsu knew that the other vassals doubted that Toranaga was really surrendering, so he saved the deception by literally giving his life to solidify this illusion. Toranaga has had to let his friends and loved ones suffer and even die for all of this, and what for? Because HE serves the future of Japan, and the vision he has for it. He has lost a son, his closest friend, and the trust of his vassals, but he will not waver from his path. Truly inspiring, if hard to understand from a Western pov.
Not to mention that he HAS to do it. Otherwise his entire legacy, his bloodline and his people die under threat of impeachment.
@crimsonghoul8983 very good points. That too.
Toronaga lived through the Sengoku Jidai and was with Kuroda at some point. He knows that another civil war would destroy Japan for good. Also even his real life counterpart had his wife executed and son commit Seppuku to prove his loyalty to Oda Nobunaga. Surprisingly, the only person he trusts the most is a Samurai named Hattori Hanzo (that spy he has in Izu which he claimed to be his "prized samurai") because he was incredibly loyal.
Man that seppuku scene was incredibly tense. Hiromatsu was one brave son of a gun.
The realisation that his son knew he wouldn't survive the attack on the tea house (one way or another) buying him the 49 days, and his friend giving his life to convince the room he was going to surrender...wow. what a show. Doing everything I can to avoid reading about the coming battle in Japans history.
I dunno if that's true about Nakagado. He just did what he thought should be done, dying "beautifully" in battle against his father's enemy. But still, his unfortunate end wasn't totally wasteful as it gave Toranaga more time to get all his ducks in a row, so Toranaga honored him for that.
I think Toronaga's essentially turning lemons into lemonade in this instance. His son never showed an iota of the cunning his father has; Toronaga showed throughout the series that he doesn't trust his son enough to let him in on his plans.
Nakagado's death was completely accidental & now has become a "meaningful death," as another commenter here put it.
Nagakado or Saeki dying would give him 49 days. But Nagakado's death just solidified the fact that Toronaga's clan is collapsing and will be enough to convince Ishido that Toronaga is broken.
“You just got zoned” instant classic 😂
6:01 Edo in modern day is massive, aka Tokyo.
I think the subtext in that scene was:
- Toranaga needed everybody to sign the surrender for the feint to work
- He faced a mini revolt in the room
- Hiromatsu saw what was happening and took it all upon himself, as a way of silencing the others (not a pre-planned scheme between him and Toranaga)
- Toranaga was shocked by this and wanted to smack the shit out of his best friend for being so selflessly loyal at the cost of his own life. But he couldn't say anything, which is why he was racked with that horrible angry conflicted look.
- Hiromatsu rolled a nat20 insight, read his friend's mind, saw the whole plan, and knew that his death was the masterstroke needed to sell it. And Toranaga knew it too.
You guys missed what honor and loyalty means to the Japanese, as well as their belief in sacrificing their lives for the common good. Even if they show dissent, in the end they will be willing to march to their deaths in service of their sworn lord.
Edo was nothing but a dumpy wet land back then. Taiko deliberately gave Toranaga such wasteland to curb his power. I love how they portrayed it accurately. Now Edo is the biggest city in the world called Tokyo.
なるほど、そうだったんですね🤔
@@smari3290 草
I'm pretty sure Hideyoshi (the Taiko) knew that Ieiasu will be the Shogun anyway, there is a reason why he was fine with Toronaga not going to Korea and left him in Japan gathering enormous power without oversight. Hideyoshi who was a master administrator would never put Toronaga and Ishido in the same room and claim they are equals.
Toronaga (Ieyasu) willingly moved to Edo to manage the lands him and the Taiko took from the Hojo clan and so that Hideyoshi will see him as no threat (his hometown of Mikawa was a little to close to Kyoto)
@@JABelms Tokugawa Ieyasu was a man who refrained from deep intrigues! Since I was a baby boomer and all I had to do was memorize things for exams, I just started getting interested in history (lol).
OH BOY, that new Vlistarian Lore. Kthulu’s A Peach. All his unknowable tentacles, reaching out like the roots of a grand orchard. Now I’m just picturing the oxford comma as a cameo shot of kthulu’s head. The tail of the comma is his dangling mouth tendril, just hangin loose.
The way I see it is that as soon as Toranaga’s brother betrayed him, he knew that Crimson Sky wouldn’t work. The only way to beat them is to do it from the inside, and the only way to get in without them expecting anything is under the guise of surrender. But he had to look like he had accepted it totally or no one would let their guard down.
I don’t think he initially suspected it would lead to his friend committing Seppuko though until it was happening. Can’t wait to see how the show ends cause it’s crazy!
This is exactly it. Toranaga was gambling on one of the General's to this, but was betting or hoping that it wouldn't be Hiromatsu.
City planned!!! ZONED!!! 😂😂😂
Toranaga just sacrificed his Rook and Knight. Wow. Everyone else playing checkers. Game on!
“You just got Zoned!” Also, now we know what the commas in the Church of the Oxford Comma represent.
🐙
There is a proverb in Mr. Son's military tactics that says, ``Before deceiving your enemy, first deceive your allies,'' and the death of his son (who did not even attend his funeral) and seppuku of a senior vassal were all part of this. His senior ministers saw through his plan that he had no intention of going against Osaka, and made his plan a success with his own death.
Man oh man…. I really want to read the book now
The entire show is a culture clash on "how to fight a war" and other culture clashes. This is totally different kind of fighting than what john and us are used to
Talk about a ride or die bestie!
Hiromatsu REALLY believed in the plan.....
"Click it. Or don't. I'm not your Elder Horror from Outside the Universe"
Toranaga does not have enough army to face another 4 times larger in addition to having people decimated by the earthquake, the tactics have to be extreme
"If he bails, then what's the story?" My dudes. Blackthorn isn't the story. This is Toranaga's story.
Need a strong stomach for this episode.
It was either him or the 3 other generals going down for disobedience. Hard core loyalty.
The Cthulhu tangent at the beginning just…I love it
Stare not into the tube void.
Beware the faceless commas.
Hallowed be Peachthulu!
I keep expecting people to recognize the tea ceremony from Karate Kid 2 but no one ever mentions it.😂
All the things you guys say in reaction are hilarious… things that would not have occurred to me to say. I enjoy your videos!
I never noticed you guys have movie seats edited in. My brain always assumed it was a curtain for some reason 😂😂
Adam is right though. *leaves* “in five days, as the sun rises, look to the east.” *looks to the east* *adam appears from the west and slits the enemy throats from behind while they’re looking east.*
Toranaga really took that “Unless I Win” quote to the extreme
Appreciate Adam for wearing that Krull shirt. Longtime fav movie of mine
Can you believe this episode ? It had me spilling my guts all over the place with grief, .. I couldn’t handle it.. i totally lost my head cryin’ over the fact that Gin’s courtesans will have to deal with potentially terrible neighbors. Oh, & old Iron Fist ( Hiromatsu ) died. 😢
Please don't spill your guts, we've had enough of that already😐
@@Sm0kingGun Its been a rough episode, got to vent your spleen somewhere!
Been waitin for this reaction. I kinda lost it watching the pivotal scene. Took about 15m to stop crying. Damn this show. ❤
You’re damn right we’re latching on to Cthulhu being a Peach 😂
But also: holy moly this episode 😮
I haven’t read the book, so guessing here: I think Toranaga is setting up a “Trojan Horse” scenario… where Osaka will allow him, his leadership and troops (because he’ll somehow have his brother’s following him by then [which means episode 7’s events were part of the plan]) into the city (or too close to well defend itself). He didn’t want his friend to die, but the two of them had a plan to ensure the other leaders would willingly follow “defeated” Toranaga to Osaka… quietly (no spy leaks) get them in place. At that last meeting though, several were clearly going to refuse… so M had to play the extreme “I will die for your cause” card… and now honour will require them to follow. Wow! Such a good episode and show!!
Thanks for another great video!
Many thanks to Jay and Adam! 🗾
"Five days, look to the East" ☠️☠️☠️
Meanwhile - you continue to troll me, personally, with that Krull TShirt! Been asking for years on that front! I get how crazy your schedules are but damn it, there's time for some sci-fi/fantasy/love/western/British/comedy/epic action in ALL our lives!
❤ u guys 😁
Putting a red-light district next to a church is one hell of a move and I fully support it :D
The next episode title is 'Crimson Sky."
Tokugawa Ieyasu is portrait in this novel as toronaga meaning this is how he became the shogunate in this novel version it's not historically accurate but it follows the same path
The ultimate bro code... if Hiromatsu sensed the objective then it makes sense why he would ask his son his 2nd to not give up on their lord ... because he knew what the end game was... Real Gangsta move there..😢
Sometimes a show can broaden one’s outlook. I’m not saying we shouldn’t value human life, but we can understand a different perspective on duty, honor, and fate.
That scene between Hiro and Lord T was not planned but in those closing moments there was profound understanding what each had to do.
Hiro wasn't the one to sacrifice himself, i think the first guy who spoke up was....that why toranaga ,looked shaken...did u see who everytime he tried to say something Hiro shouted for him to b quiet.
I think Mariko was supposed to wed the Taiko and become the Lady Ochibe and her father suddenly pulled her from the path she'd been trained for and married her off to a lowly samurai and she believe she was denied her destiny.
20:04 that “Then die…” was ice cold. Holy shit…..
Toranaga has been cooking. He put the roast in the oven hours ago and is just trying to stop his incompetent friends & family from taking it out before it's done.
"hey look i allowed my dearest friend to commit suicide, that is how much i am committed to surrendering"
If Toranaga had let others in on the plan…it would get out, and unknowable Toranaga plan becomes known, clan obliterated. Hiro Matsu sells plan, which he deduced, accidentally told others that Toranaga had not given up bc of priest message…realized he screwed up, pretended to argue with Toranaga, told another Edo general to stop his argument with Tory, told his son not to die, knowing Tory needed him for any potential hostilities, and totally sold Tora’s “surrender.”
一番まともなリアクションをされてますね。他の人の動画で切腹の場面でゲラゲラ笑っているリアクションがあったけど神経を疑いました。
Toranaga wanted the general to commit seppuku and since they looked like they wanted to attack him his best friend did that
Well now I'm gonna be mad if Cthulu Sama doesn't show up 😆😆
ようこそ！メールが届きました！ 📩
Yōkoso! Mēru ga todokimashita! 📩
All hail the dark lord in all his tentacly ominousness
This will be an unpopular take, but I really like Mariko's husband and, in context of the time period and the culture of the time, kind get what he's going through.
He loves his wife so much he couldn't bear to see her commit seppuku and denied her request (bear in mind that Mariko's father wanted her to live as well, which is why he had her marry this Samurai particularly). And in response Mariko does everything in her power to make him unhappy, giving him "nothing" as she said herself. She shows warmth to their son, but never to him, which is why he snaps whenever he sees them interact. He knows she was happy when she thought he had died, he knows her and John have slept together, and he knows he loves a women who refuses to love him back, no matter what he tries to do. It's an emotional abuse and as a warrior he only knows how to respond with violence as Mariko makes his life as difficult as she can get away with.
Don't believe me? Take a look at that arrow scene again when he shoots the post through the wall. He never told Mariko to hold still, yet she refused to get out of the way. Why? Why would she do that? Maybw she wanted to be blocking his path, forcing him to narrowly miss her so that he could make his shot, and you can see he was only inches away from missing his target. Hell, even Toranaga gets tired of her crap when she begs him to let her end her own life by slapping her knife away.
This is a ruined marriage, and from where I'm standing, Mariko, again in the context of the time, isn't an innocent party in this.
Incoming Peachthulu fanart
I saw this commented on another channel, so I take no credit for catching it (to whomever that nameless commenter was, I salute you). Repeatedly in the show Toranaga has said that conflict and fighting will only lead to senseless death, and that he doesn't believe in senseless death. Hiromatsu saying "So you DO believe in senseless death" is a subtle way of saying "so you DO plan on fighting".
Oamag please do something with KRULL!!!
Where geographically is the Erasmus?
Yabu was not told HOW to "deliver" the guns.
Erasmus is in Ajiro which sits between Edo(modern day Tokyo) and Osaka. It is actually really close to Edo in comparison to Osaka.
Toranaga's got 49 days to come up with a plan, all while disguising it as a surrender during his mourning period.
What the hell is in the corner that you guys always look at!! 😂
Greg from HR
Hiromatsu actor is very understand about Bushido. this show is very authentic! I'm so glad to watch it and introduce about Japan as Japanese.
Adam is a bad friend. Ride or die.❤❤😉
I love how Blackthorne was disgusted by how filthy his former crewmate was man has really gone native.
Toronaga's playing chess while the others are playing checkers ... or just CaH & not even realizing what game he's got goin'!
There is no peace without war
Let your vassals fight and die
Hiromatsu広松 loves Toranaga
I taught that to my son
Buntaro文太郎 and Mariko鞠子 will die together for Toranaga虎永
虎永..he doesn't give up
Toranaga虎永 teamed up Yabushige藪重 and Anjin按針
My brother's army also joins in.
Total army of over 100,000 people
You should watch maxxxine trailer pls
I'm really hoping that they decide to do more seasons of the show and "go beyond" the end of the book.
There's almost twenty years of interesting history between where the book ends and where the real William Adams ends.....
DUDE - Where is the X-Men Episode 5 reaction?!?!
17:00 Talk about insulting. The courtesans, in my opinion, deserve a better class of neighbor. 😂
Mr. JAY-SAN and Mr. ADAM-SAN🎉 I really would like to be your 「FUJI」so much indeed, dude🌷🍀❤ from🇯🇵🗾🏯
Wow, you guys literally have your heads filled with sawdust.
must be nice to have ppl opening door for you
Yeah, about your title, the bro code has nothing to do with it.
Thanks for your reaction. Mariko was never "in love" with John. Toranaga and she have a higher plan. That is to save Japan and for Mariko to clear her family name. Both Mariko and Toranaga have been planning for a long time, and they both will not be deterred. I personally, view Blackthorn as a coward. He always looking "how to save his neck". Blackthorn doesn't care about Japan; all he thinks about is the "Black Ship", get his crew and go home.
Yeah, I still prefer the original show. I don't agree with the direction they've chosen
日本人のことを理解できましたか？
The director and writers were too lazy to give a reasonable thing to sacrify Hiromatsu. Ishido wasn't even to rush Toranaga yet but they believe Toranaga's defeat wasn't enough?
The show should definitely give some clues for example Ishido's spies everywhere, ... To push Hiromatsu sacrified himself to prove the fake defeat.
No ramifications this show is uninterested in logical reactions to the character choices and more interested in showing how much of a colonizer Blackthorn is (colonizer is a direct quote from show runners). Remember John is based on a real man who became a Samurai and married a Japanese woman and had children and died in Japan after spending the rest of his life there
..the next move is Crimson Sky.. a political psy op.. Mariko sacrificed and rescue of the Regent's families. The sacrifice of Mariko, a Christian, sways at least two of the other Christian Regent's. The rescue of the other hostages sways more who have no love lost for Ishido's machinations. This then sets the stage for the Battle of Sekigahara.
Xmen plzzzzz