How does one negate the 'I' without suppression | J. Krishnamurti
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- čas přidán 12. 11. 2016
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Ojai 1982 - Question #2 from Question & Answer Meeting #4
'You say that out of the negative comes the positive. How does one negate the 'I' without suppression or denial and without conflict? Who is it that does the negating?'
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He simplifies it so much. And made us understand what he meant “l don’t demand anything from anyone , I don’t demand anything from this world I don’t care what happens . Krishnamurti made me understand suffering and understanding suffering lights a fire in u and thorough your own inquiry realize u have the key everyone has the key It’s in everyone
Thank God we had so good questioning minds when JK was available & alive, These people who asks questions in every Videos have utilised JK teachings completely or partially.... In this session i would give more credits to questions rather then answer because always, an intelligent answer depends on intelligent question.
God has nothing to do with that.
@Dònal Brügge you're own self inquiry. Look for yourself.
Well said
@QuantumBeats So True !
What is intelligent?
Thank u krishnamurti official channel....keep posting these type of videos where K discusses about the fact observer is the observed....To understand his whole teachings we must understand the fact or the implications of the sentence(observer is the observed)....I think only in very few videos he does go very deep into this sentence; especially whenever he talks about the trees........... I am glad that there are still few people in the world who have subscribed to this channel and continuously struggling to understand or to experiment themselves what k is talking about ......I am deeply grateful to this channel for continuously posting new K's videos....
Agreed.THANK YOU!
This is one which needs revisiting at intervals. Awareness seems to slip away in the face of daily life. Thank you.
Exactly... I think everytime we watch it in intervals... It will mean a different thing until it comes completely in our experience
When you actually understand his teachings then you will not comment. Every body whom so ever it may be they are understanding only verbally.
@@thattaikrishnan5523 some times comments help me understanding presicesley.
applying is the trickiest part, i think. i thought i understand, moment of understand i experience clarity. and then, brain goes interact with things as usual and at some point i'm already not applying it. keep doing, is the only way i guess? seems like this process is naturally creating a conflict (with old habits and the truth i'm willing to apply)
it's bit weird, that i understand this for sure, felt in deep level that this is essense!
and than just slip away from it. what?!
@@magi5009 Yop, nicely done by the way.
A lot of humans said It is a skill. But you see, It must manifest itself. I believe everyone experiences it the same way. but the reason why It is slipping is I think because of our past really... We have habits, perceptions and believe most of them subconsciously as important. So the mind is actually throwing you this old stuff if front. But I realized that this is just normal. I experience the best way to let it go, play itself, but DONT get caught in it is the key. For me, the most help was realizing the beingness behind the perception and some kind of getting to know it more so you can tell a difference when you get caught again...
"♥️it is the clarity of observation which is the greatest form of intelligence "JK♥️♥️♥️♥️
Clarity of Observation is the greatest form of Intelligence -> Very Powerful!!!!
@2:35 JK answered all the questions ever asked to him.
"I dont know what negative thinking is, really. Thinking is in itself is negative."
I got to know he had throat cancer and the way he delivered those lectures it gives me goosebumps whenever i see Jiddu ji speaking with so much energy and strength it used to hurt him a lot when he used to speak still this man spoke till his last breath ❤
This viewer found this to be a very clear, deep exploration of pure observation. Very helpful.
"The symbol has taken the place of reality"
Prince was ahead of his time then😜
Clarity of observation without bringing who is observed in between is absolute intelligence.
Conflict ends when the observer is not and only observation is :)
Just negate everything good or bad and be free. Is it possible
this is so true i feel in a deep level.
and also i feel,
it can be sticky as well,
like when we are not so used to be this way,
when we are trying not be as observer,
we could suppress our memory to not interrupt the pure observation,
and when this is not easy, and seem as conflict,
our mind can turn to 'get rid of memory' and can be sticky..
anyway, this contains truth, it can be antidote for the fears from the past clouding our mind.
i'm just sharing my thoughts!
I love the woodpecker. Great timing. Now he’s immortal :)
30:56 real stuff starts from here...
Observe the world without an observer. An observer is I, Me, Mine, My egoistic approach towards life.Self-centered activities.
jagdish jariwala yes. I put it in very simple terms in this way: Imagine a space craft lands on an alien planet. As they leave back for earth, they throw a video camera in the alien forrest. To meditate, be the camera. Observe with no judgment. No pre-conceived ideas. Watch as the video camera in a foreign land.
Excellent! Thoroughly enjoying these insights. Thank you for making them available. Have a great day.
Oh man he is genius. Such a wonderful explanation. Thanks for uploading this video
Thank uuu chhanal for presenting modern day Buddha...
To observe without observer ❤
The Clarity of observation is the greatest form of Intelligence.. 👌
J.k.
This is a frequent question put to Krishnaji throughout his life and afterwards. Its an age old and one might say a backdoor question implying "what am i to do?" Tell me how to 'conquer' the land of the infinite? "Tell me how to be a hero by negating my self!" Sadly most of us are caught up in that mindset and the poor chap spent 90 years pointing it out. Lots of respect to this beautiful expression of infinity.
Vik P
Isn´t it OK to be satisfied just as an observer?
Are you not caught in that trap? Why are you pointing out that others are
Sir do not try to b over smart like you are above rest
👍🕊
Espectacular explicación del Maestro Krisnhamurti. Gracias Maestro en el Silencio.
Beautiful. Thank you.
K is the treasure of my life, changed everything.
Can you share ur email id or facebook, cristina ?? I have tons of questions and doubts on k's teaching
Mine too
Thank you!
Ďakujem za všetko, čo som sa naučila, za zmenu, ktorou som prešla. 🙏 Nádherné ❤️
Veľmi by som si priala, keby boli preložené všetky videá do Slovenského jazyka.🦋
Úžasný člověk
Thank you very much.
21:01 when he said " oh u are repeating the same old thing ,, that is a movement of thought tho,,
he is a very lovely person! make me laugh few times.. make me peaceful. beautiful, wise being
Absolute clear mind, no seeking experiences, no waste of energy that state brings all energy into the being. 부처님의 12연기중 행을 소멸함으로 모든것이 소멸한다.
One of the best K dialogues I've seen.
Thank you so much. ❤❤🙏👍
Thank you
Wonderful
Clarity in observation is the greatest form of intelligence.When the heart is pure and mind is clear then TRUTH is near. We ego is zero one becomes a real hero.
if one ego is end the does one care if the people still have ego look at the non-ego one as a hero ??
Thank you very much
Genuinely was so ahead of his time. I feel that the West is so lost right now, but there’s certainly a revival occurring. A sort of psychedelic renaissance is under works imo and it’s like people need to have these psychedelic experiences just to understand the states of mind he’s referring to since the West is so out of touch with these authentic and spiritual things he’s referring too. It’s as if his audience can’t even truly listen to him because they have no experience to even refer to in order to help them understand. I think that anyone who intensely and authentically meditates or has had profound, “mystical” experiences with psychedelics can understand what I mean when I say it’s so tremendously hard to truly understand what he’s saying without such experiences. That’s why he’s always telling people to not even bother just listening to him, but to apply it. Only when they themselves witness these states of mind he’s speaking of can you start to make sense of his words; hence why he’s so ahead of his time, because in this modern time most of the West certainly has no idea where the truth he speak of even begins. The West is always looking for answers, when all K tried to do was express how the answer is in the inquiry. The answer isn’t the end of the means, but the inquiry into the means, and it’s such a hard thing to wrap your head around if you’ve never been in those intensely honest states in which you realize you know absolutely nothing and can finally build on such clarity. Tragic.
I wonder , u are absolutely right ! Great ! At least a glimpse of experience of selflessness is required to understand whole drama in the brain ! I think not meditation but a true selfless brought up of a child and a real attachment to nature may nourish within him the true value of freedom! And here creativity and real love to All living being starts . You find within Yourself a real human being where U can feel a true sense about love and life and even God
I understand perfectly.
there is no conflict in the self, or denial of the self or suppression of the self. It is the clarity of observation, which is the greatest form of intelligence.
Clarity of observation
Astounding Awareness 🔆#Namaste Even more assureing, 2nd. time !!! 👀 #CLARITY 💫 🐬 💫
Super talk ! Peace of mind !
It is the clarity of observation which is the greatest form of intelligence. When there is mere observation without the observer, that observation dispels all that is observed. This is supreme intelligence. Outstanding video.
I'm gonna be the pedantic annoying guy, but I should say I agree with the sentiment. It's observation without the I/self/ego. The observer (the mind -Buddhist verbiage- The Witness -Vedanta-) does the observating without labels/thought/concepts.
So, the observer observes.
@@BigAl9653 its a bit different vedanta says witness is always there
The accumulation of knowledge is book knowledge, which is based in time, the past, and all its conditioning of its fears of yesterday or the future . One acts now in the present moment, of the truth or the question of the proposition of what is being questioned with clarity, then one understands freedom to love with compassion.
🙏❤️🌍🌿🕊🎵🎶🎵
'I will save me from myself' thinking
Krishnamurti makes you find your inner spirituality and awareness beyond religion
make peace with your past. live in the moment totally
If the 'me' tries to make peace with the past, the 'me' is already the bundle of the past memories which mechanically makes peace with its own projection calling it the 'past'.
You are already caught up.
Do nothing other than the mere observation.
If I decide to live in the moment completely, the present moment has become now a concept, an idea. Again the idea adds up to the baggage of the 'me' and you are caught up.
Do nothing other than the mere observation.
Thinker is the thought.
Observer is the observed.
Experiencer is the Experienced..🤔🤔
Once something, a state for example, "feels like something", you are back in thought. It is a form of liking, disliking or indifference - all ways of reification.
What you thought you were looking for, is the simple, "dull", subtle, everyday, inconclusive state of just the lights being on, nothing more
It deepens in various ways if you trust it
I needed this in my life. I stumbled across the book Total Freedom at a Thrift store, it looked interesting but I didn't start reading it for about 2 years. Now that I've explored his wisdom, confusion is melting away. It's lovely actually.
That means you are believing him.
How interesting this is, but to negate the “I” or the “Me” is hard. It lurks deep within us, hidden deeply. 😢
There is only observation. Thank You.
It doesn't matter if you will observe with or without labeling the world around you because there still will be an 'I' that decides what to choose of both. Indeed it is an amazing feeling to experience life with a clear mind, but the 'I' (or whatever you wanna call it) will always be there even in the absence of words. You're simply a living organism that is aware of its existence and that shouldn't be a problem. I mean, yes, we encounter pain, tragedies and etc throughout our lives, but in my opinion if there is a "fix" (the universe didn't promise us nothing) to this it is that we be honest and accept this part of existence just as we accept the other (happiness, joy and etc). There isn't much that we can do.
If you understand this teaching to the very core of your Being, you realize that there is no division or conflict, the words categorise and divide because people believe that it is ultimate truth and reality, that we and things are separate and different. People don't like difference. Prejudices and hate all occur because of this, it is this separation and division that causes it.
Labels and categories are useful, however, when you believe them to be ultimate truth and reality, and that you are separate from another, that is where the problem arises.
We separate and divide because of our "I".
It matters because the ego is a construction and not "what it is" as Krishnamurti says, if you observe through a conditioning you will not really "see"
he is like one in a billion on this planet...what a lonely life must he lived
This guy lived an exciting life. In being alone, the guy certainly wasn’t lonely. The guy had a great vast community of people, friends and family. Misery attracts misery, honesty attracts honesty.
The word Alone stems from two words - All One ..... Let that marinate for a hot minute 🔥
💙🙏
Wow! Someone never Articulated like this ever before to me! Which consiously obliterates whom I am!
This might bring in an end to life of Word!
Sum up!
Truth in 38min and 50sec
True wisdom!
I become aware of the 'I' during meditation but then I return to the normal world.
When you become aware of the I, does it not dissolve instantly? And you remain nobody. That is the beginning of meditation.
❤❤
I have found Krishnamurti's talks help affirm to my thoughts. Which is I guess one of the points made lol. Wish I had found these sooner.
❤
🙏🙏🙏
20:22 is there a difference between the observer and the observed? If there is an observer then yes there is! Only when there isn't any observer, the difference is not! Only when the observer has no memory and has no opinion about what is seen, only when there is impersonal observation, there is no observer!!! A digital camera is an observer? no it is not, the observer is the one that makes the photos, the one that looks at the photos!! A digital camera has no opinion about the the photos that you are taking... well that's how we have to be!! Impartial like a digital camera!!! To look at everything without the word, or the knowledge as he says, it is of a tremendous importance! Because when you are the knowledge that looks, then you react, but when you look without knowledge how can you react? You react to what if you know nothing?? When you know nothing, not even that you exist, and tat you are, then there is impartial observation! But don't forget that knowledge is very important, so we can't just forget everything and live like cows!!! knowledge is needed... but we look at knowledge with knowledge (of the knowledge) also!!! So the question is can there be impartial observation of knowledge also?? YES is the answer! There can be observation of knowledge without translating it! In the same way in which there can be observation of a tree without translating it!!! From this view point trees, and knowledge have something in common!! Both can be observed impartially!
Our reactions are knowledge!!! Our reactions come from the past!! So what if we could observe all of our reactions in the exact moment in which these reactions are happening? To observe them without the past, which means without reacting to them! If we observe reactions without reacting to them, then there is observation without knowledge, then there is impartial observation of your knowledge at work! Who is observing? NO ONE!!! Because something that has no reactions does not exist! Something that has no reaction has no past, has no opinion yet, has no experience yet, has no preferences yet! To observe all our reactions without recognising them, without translating them, is the key! And this is possible only NOW while these reactions are actually happening, not after they are happened.
Great 👍
You do not HAVE to do, or HAVE to be anything.
Clear observation is simply a state that is reached when you realise you are creating your entire experience. Because, the self realizes it is the whole. When this happens, the mind becomes silent, because, theres simply no point.
Beautiful ❤️
"If we observe reactions without reacting to them". If you are reacting to the reactions, then it is the knowledge that is reacting. How do we know at what point we have to become just the observer, not a reactor?
🙏
Simple to listen.
"Awareness is the path to immortality "
ooooooooo!!!!
Isness in the flesh. What a special being. Wish he’d still be here. I wish I could see life through his eyes. But he’d probably say something that’d make me feel like I don’t get it.
“The experiencer is the experience.
Therefore the mind is not seeking any experience”
Can someone help me with the above statement.
Thoughts create the thinker. Thought that your name is X. Thought that you are wise. Thought that the mountain you visited was beautiful. Thought that he is your enemy. These all thoughts/ memories/ experiences/past/ words have virtually created a fictitious illusory thinker. When there is only watching, as if for the first time~~ It quietens the mind. Then there is no self, no ego, no illusion of separation from rest of universe//
@@NITESHKUMAR-is2gr good question and good answer. Thank you both.
*in Physical body Behaviour*
Activity is the Trigger
"I" is the Action .
Can you add English subtitles
I, the subjective sensation as the viewer/thinker, is an effect of incomplete brain activity. This subjectiveness is essential to safeguard the physical organism in the physical environment but, because of the evolution of language, brain is trapped into safeguarding the sensations of that which has happened or might happen to the physical organism in psychological space-time in the activity called thinking.
Just look at the thought . The moment you look there is no thought. Ie the essence of k's teachings
Understanding observer and and the thing observed being one and the same. This is spiritual mind. Is it possible to be there in that is the question. Even if it is possible another question arises. ie how long. To be in that state is very difficult because we are always dominated by thought and feelings.
Sir, who will realize that there's no thought ?
If oneself is having this feeling that mean, oneself is deceiving oneself !
@@shivdevuppal.5713 is there continuity of watching. Or watching itself is our being.
This is neverending process.
the more ur brain is fragmented the more there is conflicts which makes a I
the more oneness u have in your brain
which brings order in that order I doesn't operate
Thought carrying knowledge of the source of emotion holds back its energy and outburst. This creates emotional blockages and deposits, which are the source of all conflict. There is no observation without an observer. What annihilates the observer is pure experience
It seems the responsibility of love is the highest motive to have in seeking to transcend the ego because of how it doesn't concern itself with selfish reason
can you determine, what is pure observation without interrupted by memories,
and what is not?
when it's get subtler, how to fully aware every time.. that i'm not playing with past data i've been accumulate?
like he said, apply to daily life is important, and it's the hardest part.
He attributes all conflict to the ego, but he doesn´t admit that on human structure there is something which is the "essence" which observes everything without judge, and this essence survives after death. For him, nothing survives after death. He doens´t admit we are individuals.
How do you know that "essence which observes everything" is "Individual " ?
Think the pure Buddhist answer would be mindfulness of mindfulness on to pure observation..
How can one "negate" a Fata Morgana, which is the 'I'.
By realizing, that it is not more or less than a FATA MORGANA!
The Phenomenon will not disappear, but you realize what it is. 😳
Doesn't this connect directly with Heidegger's "Dasein"? I believe it does.
We understand everything of what k has said only verbally. But when u understand actually then what takes place.
An experience of a life time. 😊
"The observer is the observed" is this true? Or we just agree to this? Or we just agree to this because being told about this? Or we just say (write) this because wanna be like this? Or this what we be?
He said thinking itself is negative . But I don’t feel that way . I think be unconscious about your thinking is negative . Unless you are aware of your thinking is not bad . We can’t denied or reject it , I but observe it
Thinking in itself is negative, has he ever expounded on that statement in any video or book?
We can understand total awareness but to be in that is difficult because thought is tricky and it dominates awareness and we are lost in it. Again thinking process starts then what will you do.
Who is the one who is recording the experience?
So we invented words and symbols to escape observing unlimited.
I always find....I. Always, words, meaning in whatever form, hang from notions of understanding... It's all so much imagery, movement and...me. Frustrating. I can't let go. Intellectualy I 'get' it would be me letting go, and that any process involving me just preserves me. And so, I 'should' let that process go. Still me though, isn't it? And so the merry-go-round spins. So silly🙃
37:25
Unfortunately, truly listening and inquiring into the matter of the "I", valuable as it is, is still not enough to contend with all kinds of fierce unconscious forces (which may be considered irrational or pre-rational). The rational approach of inquiry (even though it's not intellectual, as Krishnamurti would have it), is simply not powerful enough to dissolve what we're not even aware of. We're not primarily rational. We often use arguments, spin theories, which just justify (or rationalize) those unconscious tendencies. So to use a rational approach to attempt to dissolve what is fiercely irrational is frankly silly - because rationality remains only a surface feature of consciousness. Or a useful analogy: It's like a puppet that thinks he can put an end to the puppeteer! There's nothing in Krishnamurti's talks to suggest that those unconscious forces have been confronted.
Pure observation burns all your mind divisions like rational, irrational, hidden forces etc. Don't break your head.
Krishnamurti always said, 'analysis is paralysis'. You seem to be organising these unconscious forces into categories and trying to confront each category bit by bit. The whole idea of this process is the greatest blind spot, as K pointed out to psychologists and the scientists.
You should not call anything unconscious as the conscious never knows what is unconscious. Never try to theorize and plan to conquer the unconscious as now it becomes an idea and there is immediate conflict. When the mind knows the idea is erupting what seems reality, is the ONLY step to end conflict and the end of the 'me'
he said i dont quote , that uncovering the real nature true self has not worked. But he keeps pointing to it? i don't think he actually answered the initial question fully. perhaps the video was cut before the end of his talk?
Hes not answering any questions. Only you can answer the questions
This gets really confusing?? 😕
K was not any more of a god than any of us
When you look at ur husband drinking alcohol then what is the observation there ?so the husband is not according to my preset image . So I get angry. How to observe that
"Clarity of observation is the highest form of intelligence" JK
I assume the real juice and the rejuvenation of life lives in the plain of pure observation.I want to be there.
If you want to be there, you are seeking something. Seeking something strengthens the 'me' movement and there is modified continuity of the past. Nothing changes.
But observer is there all the time!
Is it even possible to get rid of it without erasing memories??
The egoic observer needs to be made up moment by moment (which is why it keeps us in repetitive thinking). Notice how the idea to „get rid of it“ creates it. Just forget everything you know (including time) and watch.
At one point, He says, "Are you doing it?" That is, looking without the word. "That there is no point, if you are not applying it." I think what normally happens here, is that a person tries to do this either through trying to suppress the process of immediate identification of something with the word we learned for that thing or we imagine what we think K means by this or we imagine that we are doing it and say yes, I am looking at the thing without the word, as far as I can tell or we say, no, I seem to keep looking at things with the associated word. Or, the last possibility, the thing is being observed without the word. Then the last question, but by whom or what is doing the observing? To say that there is just observation is a bit confusing. Because to notice that there is observation taking place without the observer creates an endless loop of what is it that is observing. Otherwise you wouldn't ask or notice. Even the issue of ego-center is a bit confusing, the term seems to imply that there is the ego and there is the center of that ego, thus the term ego-center. So is he saying that it is just the center of the ego which is the problem but not the ego as a whole if it had no center?
talking about the endless loop....we, in trying to find who we r will never be able to do so coz of this endless loop...observer nd observed r just 2 words ....if there r no words nd no language then things just are .....
Can the ego observe without the constant, almost seemly natural process of accessing the past experience ?
I think it can but it is not easy in the world we live in :)
+Des o ...it may ....but the question is also that why do we want to observe without accessing our memories.... why?.....
True, To me it is not something I do every single minute of the day. But I try to take time out and go for a nature walk and observe nature without analyzing. I find this beneficial for my overall Well being :)
+Des o Yes my brother ...that's it ....u say it's Gud for ur well being ....this is what we do ...as Alan Watts put it ...we are always playing the game of one -up-man-ship...we want to outplay our surroundings or our environment nd get above it .....outsmart it ....nd if we see this nd try to stop ....then again why do we try ?😀
What the hell is positive thinking. "Thinking by itself is negative" -- JK 🙂
hahaha
Positive thinking can only come from negative thinking and vice versa. It's all just thinking. Like "on" can only come from "off" and vice versa. One cannot exist independently from the other. JK and most other teachers worth their salt say that division (duality of any kind) only creates conflict and suffering.
29:00 arahan
33:00 contoh pengamat adalah yg diamati
bebas dari yg dikenal
35:50 pengalaman dari projeksi masa lalu.....pengalaman apa yg dibayangkan dimasa lalu dari hasil keterkondisian
jadi aku ingin mengalami pengalaman yg dibayangkan sblmnya? yg sudah dikenal? sensasi2nya yg sudah dikenal
What is Atma or Atman? What is self? What is negation? Content of consciousness and Universal one consciousness? Not talk about ... but find yourself ?
Does this mean we should be like Adam & Eve before they discovered the knowledge tree?