How A Teenage Girl Helped Win The Battle Of Britain | The Inspiring Story Of Hazel Hill
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 24. 02. 2022
- The story of Hazel Hill is one of those bizarre tales from World War Two. At just 13 years old, she would help her father help calculate something which would turn the war in the Allies' favour.
At the time, British fighters only had limited armament. It would be Captain Hill and his daughter who figured out that new fighters in the late 1930s would need at least 8 machine guns in order to shoot down modern aircraft.
This is how Hazel Hill helped change the tide of war.
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Welcome to my channel where I share my love of history and aviation. I first fell in love with military aviation when reading Biggles books as a boy, then I studied history at university. I like finding interesting stories and sharing them with others.
I also followed this passion into the real world and managed to get a Private Pilot's Licence on 10th May 2014.
I'll share my gameplay from the IL2 Sturmovik Great Battles series as well as the Cliffs of Dover series and DCS series too, to give my stories drama. Feel free to subscribe, like and comment!
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Hazel Hill was my fathers cousin, and I remember meeting Hazel when i was younger. Glad to say I keep up the aviation line in my family, being a pilot for 33 years with the airlines. đ
Was this a well known story within the family?
I'm truly impressed by contributions of people rarely given the recognition deserved . đ
@@todd4866 ...Hedy Lemar and frequency hopping...the tech cell phones use. Was useful to encrypt messages
Lol
Pleased you stayed with the airlines. and Hazel did a great job for us. đđ
My mom got a job at with the military in London in 1941. She was 15, sat in a room full of other girls, each doing a simple math operation, and passing the cards down the line. They did calculations for artillery round charts. She almost didn't get the job because (coming from Ireland) when asked to sound out the calculations she did so in Gaelic. Lots of teen girls worked all sorts of jobs -- message running, servers at barracks, directed people into the undergrounds,
The original term computer actually referred to people like your mother.
15, wow! She must have been very bright. I know they trawled every girls school in the south east for anyone who came top in maths and wasn't already pregnant.
These women were the very stuff of Home Chain, more important than radar.
Those young ladies. In Britain and The United States
Who served their Country
Are truly unsung heroes
Beyond the "Rosie the Riveter" posters, people generally aren't aware of the enormous contribution of women to fighting WWII.
Late in the war, the Germans also pressed teenage girls into manning AAA. They were called flaktochters (not sure of the spelling). The Russians probably had loads of teenage girls on the frontline, too, though probably not in the air (AFAIK all female USSR pilots, such as the Night Witches, were adults).
@@michaelhewitt258 we need women on the Ukrainian frontline now. Let the men go home for winter.
From the title I thought that this was going to be about Beatrice Shilling who partially improved a very serious problem with carburation in the Merlin engines. The pilots jokingly called her invention, which was essentially a metal ring, Miss Shillings Orifice. Now, she really did make a difference.
Hi Paul
I also thought the same.
I believe her nick name was Tilly. She was a motor cycle mechanic before the war. Pilots complained about the loss of engine power during steep climbs and decents. Once tested, the pilots called the "washer" Miss Tilly Shillings orifice with affection.
@@MelodyMan69The problem wasnât steep climbs and descents, it was negative G.
@@Coltnz1
Steep climbs are negative G.??
@@MelodyMan69 Thatâs not what I said.
I am dyslexic, and crap at English and was in detention many times as school for being "naughty" in the 1970s.
But I write mathematical algorithms for machine learning (the underlying code in pytorch etc), protein crystallography, molecular graphics , genomics information theory and so on.
If you are dyslexic don't let the bastards grind you down.
You are absolutely right! Dyslexic people have mental skills that many other people don't have. Kind regards from South Africa.
bravo bravo bravo sir. and my dyslexic plumber brother boasting a grade 11 education had more business sense in his baby finger than l ever did and proved to be the most financially successful of me and 6 siblings. he explained how he would memorize common things in his work involving nymbers, didnt have to actually 'do the math' each time
I'm not dyslexic, thank Dog.
My eldest lad is dyslexic, it took years to get him any help so I took him to work with me and he learned manual skills in the garage, he got a job with a great boss doing bcc machining.
He now flies a helicopter and runs a machine business.
You are correct Sir.
@@paulpaintshop103 Great story to hear!
Hugh Dowding...underappreciated genius architect of victorious RAF!
Damn right, it's criminal what happened to him post Battle of Britain.
@@CalibanRising Indeed, the British always had this blind spot when it came to their heroes, Leigh Mallorie's ideas had some merit but Dowding's prudence and superior managing of limited resources are what won the Battle of Britain. A similar situation happened in WW1 after Jutland when Jellicoe was passed over in favour of the flamboyant Beattie despite the latter being somewhat cavalier and wasteful of his manpower and resources.
@@CalibanRising I think he probably made the mistake of telling Churchill he was wrong. I've been reading 'Destiny in the Desert' and Churchill loved to meddle in operational affairs despite little understanding and often with negative effects but telling him this tended to be a career-limiting move.
@@Deevo037 People concentrate on radar, but also neglect the integration of the Royal Observer Corps and the information management systems he put in which were also crucial. Especially information management and its visual representation. Also the systems of readiness designed to have squadrons ready but not wear out crews, the group system and rotation of units, aircraft repair (with MoS), etc. It was quite brilliant. In terms of Western Europe, given that the UK later gave the USA a base, potentially war-winning.
Keith Park played a Hugh role as well.
Mr. Hill, Ms. Hill along with Mr.Camm and Mr. Mitchell stand in the exalted ranks of "The Few" Respect and thanks
Dyslexic people can make huge differences, if only the system gives them a chance to do their things. Getting to uni back then as a dyslexic women was a huge achievement too. Great video.
Totally agree. I'm also in this club, so I could relate to the story.
i sufferd with it didnât find out till i was in my 20 s back then you were told were ignored i was told i could go to university but my english and maths let me down all other subjects top marks spelling not good
She became a doctor. Have you seen doctors' handwriting, it's an art form. I've seen three pharmacists trying to decipher a doctor's note.
@@jeffslade1892 There are cases of doctors incorrectly calculating dosage for patient weight with the resulting deaths. It is no trival thing that your doctor can do simple arithmetic and understands the principles.
I am lucky enough to have sex daily, no I mean the other one dyslexia. We see patterns and English spelling has none so makes no sense. Give me a map or a diagram and I see it all. I had a career building computer networks as they are patterns.
Very few in the US realized just how crucial the air battle of Britain truly was at the time. Not only for Britain, but for Europe and the world.
Germans knew they would have a battle attacking the USA
Certainly it brought time to fight another day. RAF learnt Fighter tactics from the Germans especially changing from the 3 planes in formation to the finger 4 formation.
Lord Hugh Dowding's push for the Defense system use of Radar and His push for getting bulletproof front windshields helped in his Fighter pilots confidence that Dowding was fighting for his men too
@@user-otzlixr Yet there were a few Americans who flew with the RAF before the USA entered the war. The Eagle Squadrons
So true, an old English man who helped me rebuild my 1960 M G A told me many a story of the war ; GOD rest his Soul !
I know What Churchill said about these heroic pilots.
I think the later success of the Spitfires and Hurricanes was due to the range at which the guns were harmonized.
This was born out by the Polish pilots who attacked from a much closer range than the RAF. Which made them
the highest scoring squadrons.
Not really surprising. The Polish Pilots were highly trained with a lot of flight time.
By the time they were allowed to take part in the BoB, a lot of experienced pilots had been shot down, partially while the most appropriate tactics and formations were sorted out, so many of the British pilots who were replacing them were going up with only 8 hours training.
Thank Gid we had the Polish and Czech pilots at the time.
@@vintagebollinger4439 The Polish squadrons came in later phases of the Battle of Britain, (not for the want of trying). However there were individual Polish pilots in RAF squadrons all over from the start. In fact apart from Brits there were pilots from 16 different nations in the RAF during the Battle of Britain.
There was a sad footnote to some of the British recruits.
Because of the losses, the RAF began recruiting NCO's, usually from aircraft mechanics.
However for an NCO to have his guns harmonized as mentioned, it needed written permission from a CO next in the chain of command. Often this was not forthcoming because the CO's didn't want any NCO's becoming air aces before them. This resulted in many 109's etc getting away looking like Swiss cheese. Whereas 8 guns focused at 100yds smashed huge holes in.
Nevertheless there were sergeant Aces.
There were quite a few instances of great snobbery. In one, two new CO's arrived at an airfield. When they discovered their squadron leader was a sergeant they went to the commander telling him they wouldn't take orders from a mere NCO. The commander told them they better had because he was a bloody good pilot.
Yes indeed the Polish lads were indeed fine pilots and fought like devils.
I just read about Hazel Hill and her father a couple of weeks ago in the book "The Spitfire Kids". It is wonderful, despite the passing of time since the end of the war, that so many interesting stories are coming to light.
thats a great book.. have it on the shelf alongside "sigh for a merlin" by alex henshaw :D
@@WX4CB - SFaM is one of my most treasured books. đ
@@couttsy222 my dad has a first edition the last time i was back over in the UK
I'm so tickled by her contribution. I love underdogs and overlooked people who come to the rescue of the many who dismiss them! It reminds me of several small childhood accomplishments i had in spite of ADHD and Asperger's syndrome. Human's can really surprise you.
I know a young fellow here in Alberta who is 24 and suffers from Aspergers. I get after him when he lets fly with a bunch of f bombs on Facebook. I don't know if he will ever be able to get over it, but I keep telling him he can do it. He is such a smart young man!
As a fellow dyslexic (unfortunately also pretty bad at maths) I loved the story too. Also love it when underdogs/the little man have an impact on history, like the hobbits from LOTR.
Brother, no one dismissed her. She was asked by her dad, Victim mentality showing itself here.
In 1970 the celebration of 30 anniversary of the battle of Britain I was at a boy scout jamboree London England, pilots and survivors shared their stories, and we would take a life time to appreciate it's significants! "A close run thing!" I remember.
In fairness, the Spitfire and Hurricane fighter pilots helped Hazel in her battle against the nazi luftewaffe.
She didn't win the Battle of Britain just by herself, she had help.
JUST A LITTLE BIT .
There's another correction, the Hurricane was designed with 4 guns, and one can see this in photos of the wooden mock-up. Two Vickers Mk V firing through the airscrew (low down in the cowl) and two in one wing (strange but true, the space on the other wing carried the landing light). When the 8-gun business came out it was discovered that the Vickers gun could not be speeded up beyond about 800 rounds per minute, it started to fail unacceptably. A contest was organised to select a new gun for the RAF. The Browning M1917 was selected as it could be speeded up to 1100-1200 rpm, modified to fire from an open breech, and capable of feeding .303 rimmed ammunition. They also modified the recoil booster, and all sorts of details, it was almost a new gun.The other near-winner was the French Darne gun, which had a very different feed mechanism and probably could not be modified to fire .303. The open-breech thing was to do with cook-off prevention, but it also made it impossible to use as a synchronised gun. Hence in the Swordfish the forward-firing gun is a Vickers (and a waste of space it was...). It was Dowding who told the chap that came up with the sums to go and show them to Hawker's and Supermarine, to include the 8 guns in their designs. What made them so effective, in spite of the relatively low power of the .303 ammo, was advanced projectile technology, namely the DeWilde bullet (which wasn't a DeWilde bullet...).
Thanks for the feedback.
@@touristguy87 True, but range is not an issue in air combat at that time. At 600 yards you can barely see an enemy fighter, by 400 yards you have a chance of hitting but a remote one. The RAF manual, written by some desk pilot, instructed that the guns should be harmonised at 400 yards. Experienced pilots like the Poles were coming as close as 100-150 yards to fire. I expect they got their mechanics to re-harmonise the guns, it would in part explain their higher success rate. At that range you are having something like 150 rounds per second on the target rather than in the general area, a half second accurate burst would be enough to down an enemy fighter. Hitting power very definitely was an issue, and .303 was not much (no practical difference to 30-06 or 7.92mm), which is why the RAF got explosive bullets. There was the Mk VIII .303 bullet that was boat-tailed (Spitzer) to increase the range of ground-fired machine guns, as this bullet shape handles the downrange transition from supersonic to subsonic somewhat better that the standard straight tailed bullet. This was not authorised for use in rifles nor was it used in aircraft guns. The extra 300-400 yards at maximum range is irrelevant here as combat takes place at short ranges, and the boat-tailed bullet causes much more barrel erosion with cordite propellant, which is somewhat hotter than the mono basic powders used by the US or the German propellant that had less nitro. In ground-fired machine guns a short barrel life was par for the course, and Vickers teams always had a ready stock of barrels and locks, replacing a barrel takes at most 10 minutes
@@touristguy87 I'll overlook the personal remarks and get to the point. The issue with mounting guns in the nose of a single-engined aircraft are 1) the rate of fire will be reduced by the interrupter gear 2) there is a limit to the number of weapons you can fit 3) some weapons are totally unsuited to synchronised firing, Taking the Fw 190 as an example, it retains the nose guns but at some point upgrades them to 13 mm, it keeps Oerlikon FF cannon but puts them in the wings outside the propellor arc, as they are impossible to synchronise, and it installs different 20 mm guns in the wing roots, firing through the propellor arc. Even so we are limited to 2 cowl guns and 2 20 mm cannon, no motor-cannon as this had a radial engine. At a squeeze they could have put 4 20 mm cannon in the wing roots and moved the undercarriage further out, obviously they thought it wasn't worth the return. For these guns to work well it was necessary to develop a reliable electrically-fired primer. I don't know all the details of this particular development, I suggest you download "The Machine Gun" by a guy called Chinn, that is a real encyclopaedia.
@@touristguy87 I don't really see the point of this reply. The P-51 (Merlin-engined variants) and P-47 did not have nose guns. There must have been a reason... For a start they take up valuable space near the centre of gravity of the aircraft that could be used for a fuel tank.
@@touristguy87 Yes and no, most designs place a fuel tank behind the engine so that it is close to the cg, it would be a bulky tank maximising capacity in relation to its (empty) weight, which depends on its wall area. Wing tanks are slender affairs that weigh more per litre carried, as well as being awkward to repair. Putting 300 litres of aviation fuel in front of the pilot and over his legs can be a bit dangerous. Hurricanes had a fuselage tank and two large wing root tanks under the pilot. Spitfires had just the fuselage tanks. The germans put a large L-shaped tank in the Bf109 behind and below the pilot which meant that as fuel was consumed there would be a significant trim change. The fuel tank was also more exposed as it was not in the "shadow" of the pilot's armour, as seen from behind. It did however provide an effective shield against small caliber inert bullets. Against explosive or incendiary bullets it was a very different business.
That's why the P-47 was such a badass (8x.50)
Would have been better off with 4 20mm cannon, to be honest. More total destructive power (by about 30%) with lower overall weight. However, US Hispanos were dimensionally incorrect and unreliable. In the P-38 there was space to recock and no issue with uneven recoil if it failed. It was finally solved right at the end of WW2 with some F4Us getting four cannon, for example, as well as the P-61, etc.
It takes many âinsignificant peopleâ to create an army of unsung heroes. Here is a post mortem hooray for Hazel đđœđ
I enjoyed your story, easy to listen to voice. My mum had a great story, she worked on project Pluto, checking on production quality. Whilst my father was an unwilling guest of the German government after Dunkirk. After the war he had to go back to Germany to buy machines for the company he worked for. The sales engineer just happened to be the POW camp commander.
Thanks for sharing David
That had to be uncomfortable
Frig! I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall then... đ
What a hero. We need more dedicated people like her nowadays .
@ Bollocks.
Not her dad who through living a CAREER, allowed her the opportunity to help with solving the problem, Jesus people these days.
In 1sr grade (think 1949) our parents solemnly informed my brother and I that our sister was "retarded". She has a Masters in education, spent her life teaching children with 'developmental disabilities" and could not go on to a Doctorate because she never could do math. She is still dyslectic.
The machine guns they both used where basically the same size .303 = 7.69 mm Germans used 7.92 mm and fired 50 more rounds in a minute, so very little difference. The cannons is what made the difference!
Great feedback, thanks!
@@CalibanRising The argument will always exist that the RAF should have switched to heavier guns, which they did well into the war. The only other sensible point for doing this would have been to 0.5 in the very early specification. Not only would it have given greater damage but the higher velocity would have made deflection shooting much easier. Once the war had started and German invasion seemed imminent, drastic changes to ammunition supply was the last thing that was needed.
@@PassportToPimlico IIRC they had problems getting the reliability of the .50 MG to a satisfactory level. By the time it was good enough, they had already decided to switch to 20mm autocannons for the next generation. And of course, the early 20mm had reliability problems as well, so early in the war they got stuck with the .303.
Mid-late war Spitfires usually had 2x20mm + 2x.50 standard armament, as the 4x20mm seen in later fighters like Typhoon and Tempest were considered too heavy for the lightweight Spitfire.
The RAF knew that cannons were the answer, and had looked seriously at the Hispano 20mm. However, they found the French had designed it to be mounted solidly on the engine, so the gun lacked rigidity and the stoppage rate was unacceptable in a wing installation. The Swiss Oerlikon, adopted by the Germans, had been shortened and lightened for aircraft use, giving it a poor muzzle velocity and it was fed by only a 60-round drum. The only .50 then available was long obsolete, so the multiple .303 installation was the least worst option in the late 1930s. A lot of very rapid development went on in Britain to improve the Hispano sufficiently to make it a reliable weapon.
The larger caliber mg's, such as the Browning .50 cal, were much more instrumental in moving air combat forward. The cannon round, the 20mm used by the Americans, was unfortunately married to the Hispano gun, which was notoriously unreliable & prone to jam. The P-38, P-61, & later versions of the F4U Corsair used it effectively. The German and Japanese 20 & 30mm cannons were more reliable, but the cartridge they used had a slow muzzle velocity and very arced trajectory. The Browning M2 essentially won the air war in WW2.
Bloody outstanding
Very interesting story. Thank God for the Hills
Thanks for watching
The dedicated women of Britain made a huge contribution to the war effort that has been sadly underestimated. My mother worked in an iron foundry, Richards in Leicester, making the cores for casting Rolls Royce aero engines for much of the war. She became forewoman over one of the production shops later in the war, but she was only one among the thousands of women who worked daily to keep our troops armed fed and able to fight. None of the victories would have been possible without their work and sacrifices.
I understand the same work also led to the air ministry requiring the guns not fire through the prop, as the required synchronisation reduces the rate of fire. Hence both hurricane and spitfire have all their guns outside of the propeller arc.
Superb, interesting, video Well done!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Good old Keith Park saved Britain and the British Empire! God Bless the Queen and God save the New King! all the way from New Zealand!
NZ was no slouch. I have heard accounts of what the japanese thought about the kiwis and the tongan battalion - it wasn't good. In the province of Ontario from the first part of the war there is a shrine to the Australian and New Zealand pilots KIA when training with the Commonwealth Air Training Plan. God bless Elizabeth the Second and God bless our new King! God bless the "Dominion of New Zealand"! Thank you from Canada.
And his is the statue that should occupy the vacant 4th plinth in Trafalgar Square
I'm not dyslexic, thank Dog.
I work with Sir Hugh downing grandson, he is a very proud of who and what his grandfather did during the war
So he should beđđ
Was it Lord Piers or his brother Mark, my step nephews?
Thank you for your reply, I understand that you appreciate that what I have said
Excellent historical details with entertainment... thanks! Subscribed to your channel.
Thanks Donald!
Thank you for the video
makes me wonder why some info is restricted for so long- this is a beautiful, uplifting, morale-boosting story- I would have released it during the war.
Liked and shared. Heroes should always be remembered!
Thanks for Sharing... Very Nice Video
Fascinating. âââââ
Liked and subscribed.
Thank you đ
Awesome, thank you!
From a 68 year old Los Angeles kid. I have dyslexia and was paddled in the fifth grade a bunch to see if that would "help" me learn better ! I too can do algebra and trig in my head !! Drives people nuts.
Wow ! What a brilliant video. Keep 'em coming !!
Thank you! Will do!
Let's not forget the significance of Miss Shilling's orifice in also making Hurricanes and Spits more effective.
RAE Farnborough
?
@@brunopadovani7347 Early Merlins could choke and die from certain combat maneuvers. She invented an economical and effective remedy.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_Shilling%27s_orifice
@@brunopadovani7347 Miss Tilly Shilling was an engineer who solved a fuel starvation problem in combat by putting a specific hole in part of the Merlin carburettor - hence it was known as Miss Shillings orifice by the very young and extremely randy pilots.
@@hoofie2002 :) Thanks!
Brilliant.
Good old/young Hazel Hill & her dad. Sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do - let's hope some teachers see this.
How my family and people I know helped to win the war, In such a vast enterprise everyone played a part.
Great video, Phil...đ
Glad you enjoyed it
There's an intersting book called 'Who Really Won the Battle of Britain' by H.R. 'Dizzy Allen. Ex - RAF fighter pilot. He said the RAF should never have used the 0.303 in Browning at all and instead gone for an armament of 4 x 0.50 in cal M2 Brownings. This would produce the same weight of fire as 12 x0.303s and had greater range. Allen said the 0.303 often failed to down aircraft. He cited examples in which a fighter fired a thousand rounds of .303 at a German bomber and it kept flying. Later in the war the Soviets received Hurricans IIbs which has 12 x 303 guns. They considered even this to have inadequate firepower and often fitted their own 12.7mm and 20mm guns to Hurricanes. The RAF should really have had the 0.50 at the start of the war and upgraded to 20mm as soon as it was available.
Very interesting you should bring this up, I've got a video coming out soon about this very question.
@@CalibanRising It is also well worth reading an article by Anthony G. Williams called 'Cannon or Machine Gun?'. It was published in 'Aeroplane' magazine in 2004 but also widely available on the internet via a Google search.
My Grandmother made Gloucester Gladiators in the factory during the war. Bless.
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Why do the narrator"s all seem to want to use (incorrectly) the word decimated? It's especially bad when it's a military production. Decimate is a Latin word. In Roman times it was used as a punishment. It's root is "decimal". When a Roman formation performed badly they would be punished by a variety of means. One of the worst was to Decimate them. They would be formed up in a line and every 10th man would be selected. His comrades were then ordered to kill him. So to "decimate" means 1 in 10. Logical since a "decimal" is a factor of 10. It does not mean "destroy" despite the widespread stupidity inplying that.
@@fredjones7705 congratulations on just making a tit of yourself.
Latin may be a dead language only used by Roman Catholic clerics to impress the superstitious, but it went out of common usage before your grandad was a shaver.
English is a living language, and while I prefer the term visualisation, nowadays tv presenters tend to use the term optics. I studied optics at college as part of my course on reprographic techniques.
My niece talks to her kids about choo choo trains that stopped being a thing when her dad was nearing school age.
My mother uses a Dyson 'hoover'.
Decimate stopped meaning killing every tenth legionary about 1500years ago.
It can be strongly argued that by ancient custom and established usage the verb decimate has had its current import in the written record since at least the mid 1800s.
IE you're only about two centuries too late to be taken at all seriously trying to fix your definition for decimate.
You may as well tell the tide not to ebb or flow, as resist the evolution of language.
@@gordonmurray3153 Whatever. Decimate means one in ten idiot. Decimate-Decimal....moron.
@@user-otzlixr Another member of the CZcams brain trust weighs in.
ââ@@fredjones7705 ... it's used to mean "destructed" in a more wide sense. It's not incorrect. My language is a latin language and we use this word in this context. And not with its original, strict meaning.
Air Marshal Hugh Dowdings vision
Won the air battle of Britain and the air support during the operation overlord and allies landing on the beaches of Normandy and the race to Berlin.
Unsung hero of WW2.GOD BLESS HIS SOULđčđđ
3:00 Decimate? Either you destroy it or you don't!!
I loved this story...never knew this.Thank you
Glad you enjoyed it
Everyone did their part, from child to old people. Thatâs how we were able to survive that war. Letâs hope we have what it takes to survive the next. Sadly, thank you.
Awesome thanks
It's debatable how important in a strategic sense the Battle of Britain was. A victory at that time was definitely good for morale, but if Britain had absolutely no aircraft and pilots left by the end, they still had the Royal Navy and there was the small matter of the English Channel. Also, Winkel Brown interviewed Goering after the war, and Goering claimed that they didn't lose the Battle of Britain, it was a draw. Winkel said words to the effect "I couldn't argue that".
It amazing how often notable beginnings start on the kitchen table.
Unsung hero
It just goes to show how every little thing affects our lives and how much even a little girl can do with a bit of help from her dad.
Thank you, Hazel.
I thought you were covering Miss Shilling. Very good video, I just subscribed.
Thanks for the sub! Ms Shilling is on my list for a future video.
Stories like this are just astounding! There are so many but this has to be one one the best and surprising stories of innovation as far as military aviation in the interwar years goes! Hazel deserves more credit!
Of course inspection of downed aircraft during the BoB showed that it was taking too many rounds of 303 ammunition to bring down the bombers. The only way to successfully down an enemy aircraft was to attack head on and aim for the cockpit to take out the pilot and crew. This was a bit too blood thirsty for most RAF pilots who preferred to shoot down the aircraft. Examination of damage to Hurricanes and Spitfires also showed clearly the effects of 20 mm cannon fire on aircraft structures. There was one Squadron trialling cannon armed Spitfires during the Battle, but they experienced so many stoppages that they reverted back to their 8 303 machine gun armed Spitfires. Later Marks of Spitfires would be armed with an increasing weight of fire power from cannons and also .50 Cal. machine guns.
Mark from Melbourne Australia
I remember reading that Douglas Bader dragged his feet on converting to a cannon armed VB post-BOB. He let everyone else get equipped with one before he swapped out his VA. Didn't trust the new guns apparently.
@@CalibanRising From what I've heard of Bader he had a reputation of being a ... well despite his heroic achievements and undoubted skills ... a bit of a dick. Not an uncommon affliction from some of the higher ranking British officers of the time. Its understandable that he would want to stick with what he knew worked and wouldn't be happy about change.
@@Deevo037 Yes, I heard he was a bit of a bastard too. He's definitely one of my boyhood heroes, but facts are facts, lol.
@@CalibanRising As a bi lateral amputee myself I can respect his achievements but for disability advocacy I have more time for Adam Hills quite frankly.
The use of 20mm cannon for RAF fighters was IIRC, from 1937. Certainly the Hawker proposals for a Hurricane follow-on from that year included them, and I think that was a response to the specification that led to the Whirlwind. So the RAF knew 20mm cannon were going to be required. Supermarine's response was the 'double Spitfire' (323?) with 6 20mm cannon and optionally 12 .303s in addition, but for ground strafing only for the latter.
Amazing what You learn , but have never heard About.
I read somewhere that it was calculated that it took an average of 12 pounds (dead weight) of bullets of any calibre to hit and thereby bring down a bomber. The smaller the calibre, the more bullets were needed to make up the required 12 pounds, and the more difficult it was to get the right number of shots on target.
This prompted the move toward higher calibres throughout the war, until many fighter aircraft were armed with 20mm cannons which only needed to get a small number of shots on target to deal fatal damage - a single 20mm shell would smash a main wing spar or engine block that wouldn't have been seriously damaged by a dozen .303 bullets.
Hooray for Hazel Hill! Name a plane or base for her, RAF!
Or an airbase
Despite the magnificent efforts of the RAF in the Battle of Britain any invasion plans of Hitler had already been nullified by the Royal Navies actions in Norway when the German navy was badly beaten with several key ships destroyed, Hitler simply did not have the naval ships available to protect an invasion.
I've heard the story before, but after school, and higher education, Why this Girl is Not Recognised more ,I'm at a Loss to understand.
Because she was not the first to do it, the Germans a s Americans had already worked the math out.
@@thehorsecockexpress1068 Her and her Father were 1st to do it for the British Spitfire .What the hell l you on about Americans,
.303 when you should have developed a much bigger caliber gun with better ballistics. Then again Britain had it's back to the wall and had to make use of available resources.
That was a amazing story, Hazel deserves MUCH more reconnition
Especially now.
My parents were baffled by the fact I was great at math, until it came to adding and/or subtracting a lot of numbers in a single problem (like adding the total cost of 12 parts for my hobby before my paying them and their writing a check for the mail order....).
It wasn't until 1996 that when I was reading a log report from the shift before me that I "proved" to myself that I was indeed Dyslexic (I had begun to suspect once more and more shows had a dyslexic person on them...) And during school when reading something quickly (like reviewing the textbook the night before a big test) something didn't make any sense, but when I reread the passage, it made perfect sense! (Namely I had flipped a letter or lost a space between words)).
There is an error here (at least one!), the Bf109's armament was 2 x 7.92 mm MG17 machine guns on the cowling, a favourite of German (and Soviet) pilots. They. tried putting in a third one firing through the airscrew when the proposed armament of the Hurricane became known, but this was a failure and it remained a 2-gun fighter almost up to the start of WW2. Only the D model had 4 MG17 guns, 2 in the cowl and 2 in the wings. The Bf109E, which was the mainstay during the BoB and had 2 x MG17 and 2 x Oerlikon FF cannon in gondolas under the wing, no "motor cannon". Later variants dropped the wing guns altogether and put 13 mm machine guns in the nose and a large, powerful cannon firing through the airscrew. The wings of the Bf109 were not suitable for armament due to space and structural limitations.
Thanks for the feedback.
Great Story.
My uncle Moon flew P-47 with 14th Air Force over China during WW 2. In order to take more ammo and rockets they strip P-47 from 8 to 6 x M2 Browning .50 guns. A 2-second burst on a Zero would chop the wing off, or blow it up when hitting the fuselage. He got shot down near the Chinese coast but survived to tell stories. đ
When was this information finally declassified and made available to the public?
I'm also dyslexic, but didn't discover that until I was around 60, which went a long way to explaining my problems with school teachers.
However, Math was also one of my strong subjects.đ
.
Its like the film with those ladies that made the moon missions possible, if that school girl hadn't done those calculations britain would have lost the war. Statue anyone?
I think I remember some gladiator being fitted with 6 mgs which given reduced speed was equivalent to about 7.2mgs for a pass
Interesting, have to look that up.
Thank you Hesel. đđđ regards from india
What a beautiful story ! Congratulations Hazel !
All very well to have Good artillery at hand ,What about the Pilots & men that used them ! Perhaps ,that attributed to Win the battle of Britain ,more then anything Else !
In my mind ,I believe the Polish fighter pilot's,that flew the Spitfires, were the finest fighter Pilots to fight for the British Empire in Word war 2. My Dad wanted & tried to be a Spitfire fighter pilot, passed all the necessary exams,but still did not get a Seat ! But The Stories He told me were nothing more then amazing, Fornominal , to Say the least !
And when it was won,Received very little Reward or Accommodation from Any one ! But had they not been there ,Maybe it may well have been a very different outcome ? He believed their Contribution to Win against the Lufawauffer, Can never be under estimated !
Thank U ,always appreciated .
the poles engaged german bombers at much closer ranges bringing all eight MGs on their hurricanes to bear - their gunfire "harmonised" on a target. literally, the poles grabbed the germans "by the belt buckle".
One reason for Britain persisting to use the .303 was that we had such a huge surplus of them from WW1 that there was no need to manufacture any during WW2. At the time fire rate was not measured in rounds per minute but pounds per minute and the rifle guns acquitted themselves quite well. British cannon were not explosive but solid shell, much heavier but slower fire rate.
The 12-gun Hurrie Mk.IIA Series 2 (Feb 41) where largely converted to Mk.IIB (April 41) and Mk.IIC (cannons) as by then taking on ground attack roles. The cannons were probably more effective against light armour than the Mk.IID Tin Opener
Great info, thanks!
I was under the impression the British developed Ball, AP, HE, Incendiary and Tracer rounds for the HS 20mm and the loads were mixed.
I suspect I was Dyslexic back when I was growing up, but it wasnât a âThingâ back in the mid 70âs. I had an Algebra (the Common Core math of the day) teacher dog cuss me out in front of the class one day. I was still having problems even w/an out of class Tutor. Couldnât do anything to him because he belonged to a special class of people in Selma, AL less than 10 years after the Marches.
Hazel was cute too. The younger generation knows more than given credit for & this proves it. England had all ages working & contributing to the effort of keeping their country. I don't think it would be so for America today or England either if it were to happen again. Who knows. Great video on a forgotten subject.
Took a long time getting to the point
Don't forget the mum who kept them supplied with tea and the family dog who was careful not to disturb them.
It may be a little off topic but many years ago I was given an English 5 pound note by a lady that survived the bombing of London, will never forget how she described that time in life to me,yes I still have the note, it's a very cherished belonging to me
Love the video and contents. Great job! Can you tell me which world war II flight Sim? That you play to show an add to the aspects of WW2 aircrafts. Right now we're playing Aces High in the game is really old with many hackers unfortunately. Me and my squadron is looking for a new WW2 flight Sim game. Deeply appreciated and thank you for all you do. Take care đïž
Hey Jimmy. I generally use the IL2 series for video footage, so that's IL2 Great Battles or Cliffs over Dover. For some of the rarer aircraft I use Il2 1946 with the BAT mod. Hope that helps.
Just a quick note, that on those pictures of machine guns, those pictured are not Brownings, but German MG42's.
Interesting video though, and did not know about this young talented girl helping her father to sort our the fire power problems of the Spitfire, and Hurricane, so have another 'like'.....đ
Thanks for the correction.
@@CalibanRising
Thanks for the video....subscribed...
Thanks!
Thanks for watching, appreciate it!
There's a bit more to it than that. Then SQNLDR Ralph Sorley leading the Operational Requirements section at the Air Ministry in 1933 when Operational Requirement F.36/34, which governed the procurement of both the Supermarine Spitfire and the Hawker Hurricane, was actually the driving force behind this change. The specification was amended on his recommendation (assisted by Hill's data) to change the armament from two .303 in (7.7 mm) Vickers machine guns in each wing to four .303 in (7.7 mm) Brownings.. This was not an easy argument to win add he fought very hard to make the 8 gun fighter a reality.
The .303 was honestly too lightweight a round. Even the original P-40s had two .50cal guns from the start (later models had 6) and the Wildcat had 4 of the .50cal. The British should have at least had a mix of .303s and .50cal on their fighters the same as we Americans had .30-06 and .50cal on several models leading up to and into WW2
The .50 calibre was looked at pre war by the British but the guns they examined had a much slower rate of fire and each one weighed three times the weight of a .303 browning gun and so eight .303 brownings were seen as the better bet. The .50 calibre was greatly improved to give a much higher rate of fire which was handy for the US as it entered WW2 and by the time the RAF looked at it again during the war the 20mm cannon was seen as the future though some 0.50's were fitted to some RAF aircraft.
Very interesting topic . Alot of things tye women did during the second WW , was pivtol in keeping Britain ahead of the game
The number of guns was a constraint that did not have to be. The British were FIXED on using their standard 303 round for most of their rifles and guns. The round was developed in 1888 as a black powder round then upgraded to use smokeless powder. They used that round for their rifles and later machine guns. They had plants all set up to make that round and millions of rounds in storage. They just could not afford the time and money it would take to come up with a bigger better round. So what you miss in mass you make up in volume of guns firing. Today you see the opposite with planes like the A10 that has only one gun but it fires a massive round of depleted uranium.
Ironically, the Bf109 was designed for only 2 machine-guns, according to specification.
1 20mm cannon or 2 MGs as originally required by the RLM.
The Navy and the Army used half inch Vickers machine guns. Surely a tad short sighted for the RAF not to use them as a stop gap.
The 0.5 Vickers was not conducive to being wing mounted in aircraft hence the use of Browning model guns in 0.303. The RAF was looking before WW2 to move from rifle calibre weapons to 20mm cannon and by-passed the interim use of 0.5 calibre machine guns. Some late model Spitfires did replaced the 4 x x0.303 guns for 2 x 0.5 guns though.
Additionally though they were were of the same calibre as M2 Browning's the Vickers cartridge had a lot less power than the 0.50 BMG cartridge.
The Army & Navy soon phased out the 0.5 Vickers as soon as it could, relegating it's use to arm Coastal Vessels until adequate supplies of 20mm cannon could be sourced. It was also used to beef up the armament of LRDG trucks and the like.
I agree that the RAF hanging on to the rifle calibre machine gun as an aircraft armament was flawed and a larger calibre gun would have been much more effective but like lots of things with military procurement, events and circumstances get in the way of future plans and you get stuck with weapons that were due to be replaced.
It wouldnât fit in the wings
@@taffwob The Browning .50 was about 5 times the muzzle energy of the .303, the Vickers .50 was about 3 times the muzzle energy of the .303,and might have been pushed a bit harder with American powders. Still herder hitting as is than the .303.
Harder.
The British Air Ministry made several critical mistakes. Instead of building so many heavy bombers that had problems early in the war in hitting their targets until guided in by Mosquito fighter bombers they should have used the Rolls Royce Merlin engines to build more Mosquitos that were more effective at precision bombings such as the Philips factory at Eindhoven and more Blenheims with the Mosquito faster than most German fighter aircraft and the Blenheim an effective night fighter and both with longer range and endurance than Spitfires and Hurricanes. With less effort in producing the Merlin Rolls Royce could also have spent more effort in developing its Kestrel engines for the Whirlwind twin-engined heavy fighter which was the plane Britain really needed for the battle of Britain as it was armed with four canons and had much longer endurance than the Spitfire of Hurricane and could have attacked the German planes leaving and returning to their bases in France and Holland. The same was true of the Ministry of Defenses' failure in the development of heavy tanks and anti-tank tanks capable of taking on the German Panzers even after the defeat at Dunkirk.
Didn't Hazel Hill (and her father) also work out that Hurricane and Spitfire machine guns should be harmonised to converge at a point (about 300yds possibly?) that was closer than what was the previously accepted norm for maximum effectiveness?
Is the .303 round the same as the calibre as the Lee Enfield rifle.
The US considered upgrading to 60 caliber machine guns but decided against it as the manufacturing and stocking expenses were not worth the extra punch. Later on jets the US tried numerous small diameter unguided rockets to replace the 50s, but accuracy just wasn't there.
Interesting!
The way the eight guns were zeroed made a difference RAF zeroing scattered bullets from wing tip to wing tip of an enemy plane. Polish pilots had their zero set to concentrate fire on the engine and pilot area and from a closer distance, this they proved to be devastating!
LOVE HER â€ïž. WITH ALL MY HEART AND SOUL. OF COURSE I WISH IT NEVER HAPPENED, JUST LIKE YOU AND ME ,HUMANS ARE DYING AGAIN IN UKRAINE đșđŠ. BUT BACK TO THE LITTLE GIRL ,BRITAIN WILL SURVIVE, ...THE SEA MAY HAVE OTHER IDEAS I KNOW .
2:57 I think that he guns mentioned on the 109 would have more than decimated the Hawker Fury in fact they probably would have destroyed it!
I would be interested to see a video about how they arrived at that 256 bullets in 2 seconds figure.
At 5:12... "So the story goes..." Basically, maybe it happened or maybe it didn't.
What a wonderful history.