THE Celestion VINTAGE 30 Masterclass! (with NOLLY GETGOOD)
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- čas přidán 18. 08. 2021
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German producer Kristian Kohle (Aborted, Powerwolf, Hämatom, Van Canto, Eskimo Callboy, Sinister) meets producer Adam "Nolly" Getgood to talk about the most legendary guitar speaker, the Celestion Vintage 30.
Nolly has collected and studied over 80 single Vintage 30 speakers and knows sooo much about all the different versions and the history of that speaker, it was about time to get enlightened by him!
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Gear we talk about in this video:
THOMANN:
Celestion Vintage 30 ➡️bit.ly/3z3UcL8
Eminence DV-77: ➡️bit.ly/37tkxWY
Shure SM57 ➡️bit.ly/3CrWBkS
Marshall Vintage 4x12" ➡️bit.ly/3y5zE3E
Neural DSP Quad Cortex: ➡️bit.ly/3D4TEHA
SWEETWATER:
Eminence DV-77: ➡️bit.ly/3ApNgsi
Tube Screamer ➡️bit.ly/2VH2V76
SM57 ➡️bit.ly/3CtzaHZ
Neural DSP Quad Cortex: ➡️bit.ly/2W81m2q
There is hardly any MESA BOOGIE gear available right now!
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Ignazio here! Awesome video - As always... and Nolly KNOWS, a-freaking-lot of! V30 galore, haha!
Three comments, one for fun, one for total nerdiness, and one for serious...
- The fun one: my favorite V30 is an OEM version, taken from a mid '90s Groove Tubes Soul'O 75. Still have it, still love it! Sounds to me slightly more "classic" rock than the current ones. Maybe Nolly could share his thoughts about the V30s of those years? I'd love to hear his comments...
- The nerdy one: Totally agree with the finding that the bottom speakers in a closed back 4x12 are influenced by the bouncing back of the waves from the back panel, returning and "disturbing" the "piston-like" behavior of the cone membrane. This generates BOTH comb filtering AND standing waves. This is common in all closed backs, while in ported and open backs it does not happen, or at least is much less evident, the more the speaker is open (i.e. there is less or no pressure inside the enclosure.
- The "serious" comment: At 28:03 Nolly says the magic word: "inconsistency". There is simply NO way that the cellulose pulp of today is exactly the same used 30 years ago, or even 30 days ago, and yes, this is the single most important factor in a speaker's voice. The membrane manufacturers, they all go a long way in their quality control processes, BUT still, there will be variances. So when the speaker manufacturer receives the new shipment of membranes, he may or may not run some test, to select them and group them for similarity, a bit like what happens with tubes. Maybe some clients will require the strictest possible tolerance from the reference sample, while others may accept more variance. Maybe the same manufacturer needs a small percentage of their speakers being built with the strictest tolerance, for some clients. Clearly, any "off-line" testing and selection process, pre or post-manufacturing, costs time, human resources, and therefore has a cost...
Just my 2-cents :)
Is there a proper way to break in a speaker? A way to push it or them to the voice you have in mind?
@@tobins6800 this is a key question, we get it every other day... I don't want to "steal the show" from Nolly, however, I think this is useful information. We (Jensen Speakers) do NOT recommend ANY procedure to speed up or force the break in process. At least, if you don't REALLY know what you're doing, and you haven't test equipment available to monitor the speaker status. And here's why: If you feed a speaker with a signal, be it a sweep or white noise or music, for a continued, uninterrupted amount of time, the speaker will move accordingly and will build up heat, even if the amplitude of the signal is relatively low. It will never have even a few fractions of a second to allow the voice coil to cool down. This is likely the most dangerous situation for a voice coil. Once overheated over a certain point, the damage done is just non-reversible.
On the contrary, any style of guitar playing will allow some pauses in between one pick strum and the next one. Even some high gain palm-muted rhythm patterns will allow milliseconds of silence in between strokes. This reduces the heat build-up.
Therefore, we recommend to PLAY the speaker. Let's say 30 hours to make it playable, and maybe the classic 100 hours to have it cooked right. You may want to record a loop of guitar playing, and send it to the amp, at a reasonable volume. You don't really need to blast it. Maybe face the cab against a wall or a closet, maybe cover the cab with blankets or anything that will reduce the volume in the room, to avoid being screamed to by the wife or the neighbors.
Finally, in our experience, there is no way to "push a speaker to a specific voice". The speaker has its own voice. Breaking in will loosen the moving parts (surrounds, spider, membrane, etc.) allowing for a fatter, warmer, more organic bass and mid response. It will not really change the response on the treble range, but because of the improvement on bass and mids, the whole curve will sound naturally tilted in favor of a warmer, less aggressive tone.
Hope this helps!
@@JensenSpeakersVideos whoa. A ton of info, and a huge thank you for that information.
@@tobins6800 My pleasure!!!
Hey Ignazio, awesome of you to step in! If your early 90s V30 is anything like the ones I've tried I'd definitely agree it's a more classic tone. To me they have a lot of the qualities that the Kurt Mueller coned black-back G12s of the late 70s are known for, with a brighter and more aggressive top end, and less mid. In fact I have a pair of '77 T1511 G12M25s (444 cone) that sound very much in the same family as the early 90s 16ohm V30s I have, just a bit higher in timbre and with more "fizz". Those early V30s (or more usually Marshall Vintage models) are very much responsible for the hard rock guitar tones of the late 80s/early 90s that are often attributed to "Greenbacks" or G12-65s - you can hear Bob Rock talk in several interviews about how he would always use V30s cabs back in those days. Additionally it's rumoured Slash's tone on Appetite for Destruction (and maybe others too?) was the product of that speaker too. Definitely a great sound and a long way away from the modern production V30 or indeed the much darker speakers that appeared in 2000 when the cone ribs became less sharp-edged and prominent so I would put a lot of confidence in the theory there was a change in the cone manufacturing procedure in the KM factory right around then.
So glad you agree about the comb filtering/standing wave issue in straight cabs or bottom speakers of angled cabs. As you say, it's not present in open or ported cabs. Also smaller 2x12 and 1x12 cabs tend to suffer much less due to the increased relative stiffness of the smaller baffle dimensions.
Agreed about consistency, and in fact I had intended to say in this interview that while the OEM Mesa Boogie V30s might share the same recipe as other UK-made V30s (and Chinese ones too barring the different glue used) it could well be there is simply a narrower tolerance in place for components in the Mesa speakers.
Thanks so much for weighing in, it's great to be able to chat about this stuff with others in the know.
THE Best collaboration! Wow! Thanks ever so much for doing this Kristian!
You're more than welcome, my friend! But we're gotta thank Nolly here!
i want a heart as well
@@KohleAudioKult Yes! Indeed
What speakers for a 4x10 cab for a do it all sound would you choose?
Almost expected; "Hey, V Sauce, today we're going to talk about Vintage 30s!"
Thanks for the knowledge =)
This is a very underrated comment if I ever saw one lol
You win the internet today. Thank you.
V Sauce seems a little depressed in this vid.
Nolly is always so pleasant to listen to.
Yeah he's so soft spoken, great pronunciation, lots of vocabulary. He sounds like a British gentlemen.
Cause he's not american
He should put out a spoken word album of him talking about V30s. I'd fall asleep to it.
The most epic crossover in metal produce world!
Is there a Celestion V30 serial number guide/database that some other “geeks & nerds” can follow? Thank you in advance. (Appreciate the time guys! Thank you Nolly!)
We NEED the straight vs angled video kohle!!! Thanks for another great video.
Angled all the way!
Uhhhh Johan Segborn....
+1
@kohleaudiokult where are you? Slanted vs straight? 😊
Break-in is so real. I was also really disappointed in my V30 when I first installed it, it was so fizzy. Then after playing it cranked every day for like 6 months, it suddenly became "the sound" and I absolutely love it now.
Cab Builder here! One of the first things I took into account for defining the cab sizes was the standing waves and when I captured some IRs of V30s in the 4x12" the effect was very present, specifically at 500Hz "ish" zone, which corresponds directly to the internal depth of the cab. The cabs I build are front loaded, and both the back panel and baffle are glued together with the rest of the cab, so i'ts esentially a single piece. Additionally I added a glued unión in between the back and baffle to mitigate phase cancelation between the bouncing parts. To my surprise, it resulted in a more linear response and not so boomy as one would expect a 4x12 to be.
this is probably why i prefer semi-open back so much. much more consistent midrange. even if it softens the bass a little. especially on stage, that midrange is so much more more important to me than the projection
@@xsonicassassinx you know the old saying: If it sounds good, it sounds good! That's the beauty of guitar cabs vs other instruments, it's expected to have a character of it's own and linearity is usually not the main goal. It's cool to understand the mechanics and math behind everything, but in the end what matters is if it sounds good.
@@sykocustomcabinets3712 do you find slants record better??
Wait I’m a noob. Are these standing waves and whatnot considered “bad” or just another flavor of sound?
@@snapascrew Yes. Slant your entire speaker mounting board and set the bottom speakers higher up in a larger cab so there is not a 'kink' in the corner along bottom.
Enjoyed this conversation so much… as I’ve myself recently descended into guitar speaker madness during the pandemic. 🙏
After using v30 for years, my new love is an 8ohm Celestion G12M 65 Creamback (open back cab with mics front and back). Could be just a phase, idk 👀 (pun intended…)
Ether way, thanks for keeping me company this morning ❤️
There's a guy who used to work at the paper plant that supplied the cones back in 2001 somehwere in the internet watching this and going "man I knew I dropped way too much glue into the mixing machine".
My new cab was shipped with a vintage 30 and i planned to swap with immediately cuz i knew vintage 30s were so common. But when I first tried it, it was BADASS. There’s a reason why they’re so popular
Finally we know that speaker/cab has been used for cab 2 in Archetype Gojira. Happy man now, because I'm so in love with that particular IR :-) Thanks Nolly!
it's funny that this was such a mystery. i have such a STRONG distaste for greenbacks that the first online demo i saw, when they clicked to cab 2 i said "ew, greenback". when you don't like something, you can always taste it in your food haha
@21:00. DUDE THANK YOU. This is exactly what I've been saying about Mesa oversized cabs for YEARS. The OS is not boomy, it extremely tight!
The video i have ever waited for.
Thanks so much!
Great ! Thans to both of you !
Brilliant video, in-depth analysis based on lots of data and clearly an incredible ear (you were right complimenting his descriptions! Really precise). This series is so good, loved the Dual Rec one as well. Thank you!
Great stuff! Very insightful.
The amount of information in this video is amazing. Thank you. A+ content.
Just learned a lot from this video, thank you sir!! 🤘
Fantastic interview and information!!!!
Thanks!
Sooo interesting! I'm currently on a speaker quest so this was so useful. Thanks a million to you both!
2 of my favorite audio engeneer together, what a magical day! thank you
This is amazing, the guys, the content, knowledge, the collab. So happy videos like this exist
This is the video I didn't know I needed! I'm gonna rewind and watch it again! I've been thinking about building my own cabinet and am toying around with the idea of doing a V30 / DV-77 combination, now I know what to look for when shopping for the V30
A crossover to rival all crossovers. Legitimately two of my favorites doing it right now. Thanks for this!
that's one of the nicest, nerdiest, informative videos on metal production. Great to see you guys working together. Would love to hear some tests of those v30s, like a shootout or something. Also angled vs straight cabs. Great content as always kohle! 🔥
The best video i ever watched from you. This is A M A Z I N G. So much information that started to clarify things tromendously.
This was by far one of the best geek out's ever! Between this and your Fluff interview about Rectifier heads, my amp/cab room looks very different now. A lot more Mesa Boogie logos in it and I can now summon Satan on command. Thanks for all you do! Gonna make sure I follow and learn more from Nolly now as well.
Great in-depth vid. Thanks
I really learned a ton from this video. Thanks.
I've become a cab and speaker nerd in recent years. This video is fascinating for me. I'm still such a noob to it all but love learning. Keep these videos coming! Thanks fellas!
awesome wealth of knowledge in this video thanks Kristian
He does an excellent job at explaining the sound of the sound. It's amazing.
Absolutely fantastic video - thanks!
This is a good example why I love your channel so much! It's alway very educating and entertaining at the same time!
Awesome video! Love this deep dive.
I totally agree about mic’ing the top speaker. I’ve moved the same speaker from bottom to top of cab and got good improvement. An easy way to hear the change is by flipping the cab over as well.
this was the best v30 vid ever. so many questions.
Josh absolutely has made some great use of that cab =D
Awesome video, you fine gentlemen!
This was SO enlightening!
Nice talk. I have two Lynchbacker in my homade cabinet and i realy love it. They sound great with a tight lowend.
Nolly is dead on. I’ve owned a lot of the years of Mesa’s he mentioned and agree 100%. Even when he mentioned the 2001’s being dark and getting good results going dead center.. I’m literally having to do that right now. Nolly if you’re reading: my 2001’s are from may 25th 2001 (speaker date not cab).
Same! Mine are August 2001
Thanks for this, I love the way Nolly seems to bring scientific inquiry to everything he talks about
Another long and nerdy video that forced me to pause what I was doing and watch every second... this is what I get for selling my soul... and I love it.
Thanks for another great video/conversation, Kristian! \m/ I am located in the US and I did just recently purchase a Mesa-voiced V30; I guess it was about a month ago or so. Though I still have a long way to go before the speaker is truly broken in (I'm using it in my home studio with my 3-channel ~2010 Mesa/Rectifier), I think it sounds pretty good. Yes, its a little bright and young sounding (to use a phrase from Nolly), but its translating well thus far in my mixes.
7 minutes in - this is excellent, thanks!
Great video! Thanks for the info and guidance here. I just pulled the trigger and ordered four 8ohm vintage 30’s from Mesa. I should get them in two days. I have a technician scheduled to swap out the g12t-75s from my Lead1960a cab and put the V30’s in. I don’t want to risk messing it up by trying to wire it myself. Can’t wait to hear the speakers! Cheers and thanks for the vids! I’m learning a lot. 🤘
Thank you so much for this video! 🙏🏻 Adam D. would be really interesting at some point. Really liked some of his metalcore productions in the 2000s.
Thank you for all your work on this subject, I feel like all the information is on the table finally..
4years ago I bought a ‘00 1960BV cab with 2- ‘00 Celestion V30s and 2- ‘92 Celestion V30s that spent its years touring with a Punk band and it sounds amazingly perfect. It has seen years at loud stage volume.
Your description of the tone earlier V30’s really helps me understand why it sounds so incredible. It’s that early “Greenbackish” tone of the early ‘90s with the perfect metal tone of the ‘00s mixed and played-in.
Thanks again
Bro I could have listen to this for hours!
Great video, a lot of information 🤘
What perfect timing to feed my speaker binge
Solid nerdy round table, thanks Kohle… sneap is using the Marshall BV/AV cabs so much these days, it’s a nice change of pace, and I’m glad to see that coming out because they really are great.
Also… nice to see nolly confirm what I’ve been saying forever, the Marshall cabs have more low end ;)
Love all these different speaker shows. No matter how music is made it all gets totally analog when it hits a speaker. The complexity to such a purely analog expedience takes us as close as we will get to the first drums that were only a hollowed out log.
Nolly is the wizard of V30's. Awesome video Kohle! You rule, man!
Such a great video. I bought a 2018 China V30. Loved it. Heard comparisons, then I bought a Marshall branded British made "Marshall Vintage" from a 80s jubilee cab. Even more awesome, more of the right highs(chime and pick attack) without fizz.
So much knowledge and nerdyness in one video. Awesome stuff!
Also - Nolly could probably talk about how plants reproduce and I would still listen closely. :D
With collabs like this, I need CZcams to add an option to like videos twice. Epic!
Amazing crossover, love to hear this in depth geeky shit
this is deep knowledge, so good!
I love how its always an adventure listening to different speakers
I have to say that my favorite sound is my cab with V30 and Celestion Greenbacks combined. But this video is very informative for newbies and people that haven't been able to play with different combinations of speakers..
Nolly repping Control Room! Fascinating video.
Excellent video
This was great. 👍🏼👍🏼
Great conversation!
Damn... the right Dual Rec and the right cab...you were destined to guide us through the quest for tone Kohle!
Ohhhhh I needed this nerdery in my life
Oh man you guys are going to send me down the rabbit hole as well! I've already done a 6-hour video on different brand-new Celestions, but this is a whole new path to go down...
I have watched some of your speaker videos! Great content! 🍺👹
Very interesting, thank you so much! I have a nice cab from nineties with V30s and when I bought the mentioned Thomann H&K V30 cab about five years ago i was horrified how harsh they sounded at first. There was no low end... After hard abuse from a marshall 2203 playing with a with a loud drummer they gradually softened and sound ok today.
That was so good!
Really good classy content for us guitar players!
Great discussion
Two legendary mixing engineers in one video - how can we not love it? :)
I already knew they both sound amazing, but still feeling even happier now with my Mesa OS slant with September 1995 V30s and Marshall MF280B with December 2002 V30s.
Great to see videos of professionals nerd out on speakers, it's always guitars and amps. Speakers are where the rubber meets the road. Guitarists need to nerd out on speakers more. Would like to see you guys talk about the EVM 12L. I'm a long time user of Mesa rectifier and mesa half back cabs with evm 12l speakers. Best combination I've come across since I got my rectifer in '97.
Everything I knew about speakers prior to watching this video….. just went right out the damn door. Thanks Boys! Priceless Insight here!
Great info. Cool discussion. Cheers Gentlemen.
I too am a Vintage 30 fan/nutbar. I like the Mesa version of the V30, somewhat darker with that distinct V30 mid grind and growl. Cheers!
I combined v30 and eminence legends in my Soldano cab and they compliment each other well. Also the celestion g12-65 from the late 70s-80s is a great speaker too. Cool video I loved the nerdy depth it went into.
I have the same in a line 6/Bogner cab. My personal favorite speaker combo!
Holy shit! Both of you guys give me instpiration and ALOT of knowledge, but I didn't saw THIS coming ;)
Love this video. Love this kind of content! If you ever have an interview with him again, could you ask him if he has tried the Warehouse Speaker's Veteran 30, and if so, his opinion on it? Thanks again for making these videos.
The Veteran is a good speaker but can’t replace a great V30. There’s a video on this channel where I show it.
This is amazing. The only thing I like more than my MESA 4x12 with V30's , is my children. Seriously. I love it. It makes all my amps sound so good. My other cab and speaker combinations sound great with certain amps. But my MESA sounds incredible with every amp
one of my favorite speakers is and older Celestion seventy 80. Which has been really thrashed and all the harsh top end is gone. And man it sounds nice when you mic it.
Love this video
Krisitan, these crossover skype discussions with experts are the best thanks
Interesting video! I've been miking the the upper speakers in 4x12s (live sound is mostly what I do...) for as long as I can remember but I've always explained my choice in doing that to eliminate potential floor reflections and then, of course, I don't have to bend down when clipping on the cab grabbers :) ...
In my own 4x12s (Marshall 1960A/B made in 2008 w. 2x factory G12T-75s & 2x V30s (bought in 2011, I'll have to see if I can find a date code now...) mounted in X-pattern. I really like my V30s, sure they were a little bright/ice-picky and stiff when they were new but now they have approx. 200 hours of live use/rehearsal (decent volume) and all harshness is gone. I tried to keep track of how long it took and if I remember correctly the biggest change came after about 50 hours and they "smoothed out" and settled down after about 80-100 hours.
I’m that person. I use to NEVER pay any mind to the speakers and cab when I was younger. Now I do more then ever. Mostly because of this channel I’ve realized how damn important they are. You don’t need need a bunch of amps for different tones. You just need different cabs with different speakers if you want other tones. I’m running a prs stealth cab with 2 v30s and 2 75 creambacks. Killer sound.
I used to be the exact same way. Amps were always so much more interesting and cool to me so that's where I spent my time. Turns out speakers are much more influential to the entire tone. I still love amps and don't plan to sell mine... so now I just have to stock up on different cabs lol. :)
@@TheGgreen100 Both is the answer
@@CalanReichel Yup.
highly recommend trying a well broke in Lynchback. Nolly nailed what they should have been marketed as. They pair great with V30's and heavy mag creambacks.. new follower and love everyone so far!
Tzzz and I was already wondering what I should watch tonight :D
Awesome video! On a speakernerd journey myself right now, put 2 Marshall Vintage speakers in X pattern with 2 1984 t75s in a Marshall 1960a cab and miked the two upper speakers, great mix! Maybe a cool sequel, the different t75s? ;)
Wow, this was really interesting!
really nice informative video thanks
Awesome video, It answered all my Questions. Now i need to figure out what year my MESA cab is.
I used Mesa 4x12's with V30's for a couple of decades with multiple heads. Different gens of Recto heads, multiple different 5150 heads, JSX's, Marshall Valvestates, etc. That's how I learned to deal with break in and taming the V30 upper mids.
Now I am using a PRS MT15 through an 8 ohm Avatar Contemporary 2x12 loaded with Hellatone 60's. The cab is a clone of the oversized Orange PPC212. And the Hellatone 60's are just broken in V30's. At least with the MT15 this cab is bigger in the bottom end and far less beaky in the upper mids. Far less harsh.
Maybe because of the cabinet volume, being rear loaded, whatever.
I came across videos with frequency analysis comparing new v30s vs broken in v30s concluding that there is no significant difference in sound. I believed that for the last couple years... Until I bought a hb 2x12 vintage from thomann which was SO bright and harsh but smooth and pleasant when I plug the same amp and settings into my orange 212 vintage. Perfect opportunity to test a break in... I literally looped a chunky chug into the hb 212 and cranked the bass up all the way, faced the speakers down into the carpet and cranked it and left it for 6 hours... Not expecting a difference. WOW man, even 6 hours of doing this took away most of the harsh high frequencies and has way more lows and mids and smoothed out nicely. I can't believe it actually worked... It's definitely not my brain adapting to the sound... The difference is night and day and very similar to the Orange cab I originally compared to. The myth busters on this topic are definitely wrong...
Very good info guys! I just bought a set of 4 V30s new made in China. I think they were too bright and thin but now I realize as you say they have to be broken in. For now I put the set of 4 G12H-75 UK speakers back in the Soldano 4x12 because the low end is so much nicer. If I just tap on the cone you can hear the resonance is lower by at least a half step on the G12H-75s. I was going to sell the V30s but I will work on getting those broken in and try again. I just want the sound that's in the UA OX 4x12 UK VEE30.
6402 cones in 8ohm greenbacks from the 90's
Used in open back cabs they exhibit incredible bass overall tone very organic
I was so excited to buy my first V30 about a year ago. It is a Chinese 8ohm from one of the bigger online stores. Today it is sitting on a shelf because I don't like the sound it makes at all. I'm glad to find out that my ears are working properly! It is very bright/sharp/harsh.... Some day I will try to combine it with a warmer speaker, but for now I'm using a DV-77 with a Texas Heat in an oversized 2x12 that I built. Sounds great for just about everything. It's a shame.
I actually just received a 2 x 12 from monoprice loaded with vintage 30s and I had assumed it was the same cabinet model as the Harley Benton, but found its actually a bit different. It has a 1/4 open back design and a slanted baffle, where I believe the Harley Benton is closed back and has a straight baffle (could be wrong, as I haven't seen a Harley Benton cabinet in person), but it sounds pretty fantastic in the room.
i swear nolly is a god when it comes to most audio things but his voice is sooooo airy in this video its giving me asthma