Lying to Children | With Helen Joyce
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- čas přidán 25. 10. 2022
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I have talked to doctors who are convinced there are going to be 1000s of law suits in 20 years from the children who were treated for their gender dysphoria and regret it in their adult years. And yet, too frightened to speak out.
Those who profited from it will run with the money
like those responsible for Iraq war atrocity
can we realistically see a scenario where they meet justice in our life ?
If they live that long sadly.
Give it 15 years tops when these adolescents and young adults realize that they won't be able to be a parent unless they adopt.
Just out of curiosity, what fields did these physicians who told you that specialize in? I love your profile picture and your name, BTW.
There’s a difference between letting your children do something they’ll regret later (the main problem here is that children won’t take responsibility for their stupid decisions, but expect adults to fix them), and children having bodily modifications forced upon them by their parents.
If we’re talking about the latter, if there are kids who are “forcefully transed” by their parents, I’d expect a much larger group to join that future lawsuit: Circumcision victims.
"If everyone agrees that this is wrong then why in Hell are we doing it?" Because the cost of telling the truth is so high that watching someone else mess up their life becomes insignificant.
All it takes for evil to succeed, is for good people to do nothing.
@@mattevans4377 Is it evil if they do it to themselves?
@@ericbaillie1098 Evil is pretty much a constant...Soooo...Yes. 🙈🙉🙊
@@jongillett9243 No, it's not evil, it's just colossally stupid and don't see that changing in the near future.
@@ericbaillie1098 Killing themselves slowly isn't EVIL?
I know a young woman (20) who comes from a broken home who has decided to switch genders and remove her breasts when (she/they/them) turns 21 next year.
She's clearly searching for the love and acceptance she never received as a child. This, in my opinion, is another form of attention-seaking self-harm. It's a very sad situation and our current society isn't helping.
That's sad. This movement is a magnet for malignant power hungry narcissists and lost people in desperate need of well balanced guidance and professional help to process their lives in a healthy way.
Wait until they realize the movement, as every good cult, stops with the love showering as soon as she disagrees with anything they promulgate; also how tough emotionally it can be being a man, very little support, very few care...
Please don't give up trying to inspire sense in her - before she mutilates herself and destroys her life
@A Laputa talk sense into her for christ sakes !
@A Laputa Tell them if she does that then your father has won, and you don't want your father to win, since they were a terrible person who doesn't deserve a win.
When I was 10years old, I began menstruating. I was terrified. I knew nothing about what was happening, but when I ran to my mother crying that I was bleeding, she pushed me away and told me that "this is what you get for being a girl! " From that moment on, I hated being a girl and I would cry myself to sleep, praying to wake up having changed into a boy. Imagine if that happened today. Imagine if I had been offered the chance to "realign" just because my parents wanted a son and rejected me. I would have missed out on the wonderful sons whom I gave birth to. I wonder how many young girls want to become boys because they too are not accepted for who they are? I realise now, many years later, that I didn't want to be a boy; I wanted to be loved and accepted for who I am.
you made me cry! I had similar hues growing up. Thank you for not giving up on yourself.
@@truskakwa aaaw....sorry about that. Stay strong. 🙂
My heart goes out to you. Mine started at 10 as well… so young! It was midnight and I woke my mom. She reacted differently… she got up and showed me what to do and kept me home for a week- she bought me pizza and rented movies for me. Even with her support, I hated my body. I hated being a girl at that age… I didn’t think it was fair that I had to endure this pain and boys didn’t. This ideology is VERY dangerous for impressionable minds, especially girls.
What a wonderful mother you had to have been so supportive of you and the physical changes that your body was going through. I often wonder if the hatred I felt for my own body led to it triggering lupus, an autoimmune disease in which the immune system turns mutinous and attacks the body. I've never had feminine confidence. Parents shouldn't blame their child for being the wrong gender.
@@lynnhall8720 Exactly, I wish you the very best 💖
I was confused about my sexuality as a teen. I thought I might have been gay. But as I developed more and settled into myself I realized I was comfortably heterosexual. Kids try on different identities as they develop. So to make a permanent and irreversible bodily change while a child is going through a confusing and most likely experimental phase is paramount to insanity. And I'm apparently insane for saying so.
"When people are driving themselves crazy, they have neuroses or psychoses. When they drive other people crazy, they have personality disorders." - Albert J. Bernstein, psychologist.
What when they do both?
Does anybody else get the impression of a king and queen speaking together in this discussion?
And psychotic thought disorder and ocd, and they autistic with no sense of universal law they have a get your own criminal law but you shouldn't have to, they just want more they just don't care
@@ramtigerfalcon8387 In a moral sense that's exactly what they are.
Food for thought. Thanks!
He’s so compassionate. Truly misunderstood. I’m so proud of him.
Proud of him? Are you his father?
@@986C anyone can be proud?
@@986C He doesn't to your father to be proud of him.
People can be proud of him because he standing up to protects defenseless children.
It baffles me how people can have serious problems with Jordan Peterson. He is every bit as caring as anyone is and ro top it off one, he's one of the most intellectually honest public figures. It's both unsettling and comforting to note that if there are people who hate Jordan Peterson, then there's really nothing you can do to please everyone
Compassionate, unless you disagree with him. He knows what he is saying is bullshit, and is basically hate speech.
I love how Helen tactfully averts her gaze when JP begins to tear up.
_That_ is journalism, _that_ is consideration.
Men cry it's fine.
@@kimmmwest4641 yes it is, bit it's a bit awkward to stare when someone is tearing up, you know?
That small motion of giving him space to collect himself should not be overlooked, imho.
@@el7284 idk maybe because they not in person... Or maybe because he's a man ... I think looking away indicates it's something unacceptable about it ..
@@kimmmwest4641 it's nothing so grand as that.
You’re not completely wrong, however in this case I think it was a gesture of grace by Helen. They were flowing so harmoniously in conversation, there was obviously trust established, so her turning her head away was more a way to let Jordan knows she sees him crying, but that she also knows he isn’t looking for sympathy or pity. It was a sign of respect. To bring too much attention to it would be an insult to the higher purpose of the conversation.
Mortality dysphoria. This has been one of the most challenging moments of my life as a mother. I don't know why, but one of my daughters rather early became conscious about death and was desperate, crying for hours because she imagined one of our family could die. Since there is no lie you can tell about death and you can't identify your dead grandmother or your cat to be still alive, I had to get her through that phase in some way, a bit by comforting her and a bit by ignoring it and showing her that I was stoic in front of this crude fact of life.
bravo! a great analogy.
So heartening to hear this. That’s all you can do. We don’t downplay these things, we don’t make them more dramatic than they are, we just show acceptance and understanding the best we can.
Look into empaths and how to protect her energy.
@@vivianraw No need to even go there. This person clearly understands how to deal with his/her child. Sure, acknowledge certain gifts and nourish them to an extent, but we need to be focusing on ourselves as parents, not romanticizing our children and putting them on some pedestal. I personally think we need to stop with this “my kid is an empath” crap. It breeds a narcissism and delusion, both for the parents and the child.
I remember my 5th birthday because I was going through the phase you describe. My father jokingly said 'you're 5 now, you'll never see 4 again'. This hit me like a ton of bricks and I felt very down. That was a rough time but my 50th birthday was a doddle!
I feel the same.
Young children who are lost, not loved, mobbed by others and beeing suicidal just because they don't meet the insane, unreal modern day standards rips my heart apart.
Trying to manipulate them to do such a radical, unsafe medical treatment is totally unacceptable.
They are not adults yet, they cannot make own decisions and don't understand the consequences of that decision which can damage them for life, result in depression or suicidal thoughts.
"unreal modern day standards" tell me more
It's beyond sick and twisted. But yet we all sit back and watch with popcorn in hand.
Agreed. I think it's important that we acknowledge, however, that these parents, as well as my own ( in my mid-50's) are not and were not "adults."
As Bill Plotkin put it in his first book, "Nature and the Human Soul", in the early 2000's, developmentally, we are mostly, what he termed a "Patho-Adolescent" society in which most have failed at many developmental tasks that our society doesn't even recognize.
Intergenerational Trauma is manifesting in so many ways, yet we keep trying to put out the emerging and existing manifestations, whilst ignoring the root problem. Endless tentacles, this that underlies.
@@yourneighbor2567 I wish I had your luxury of doing that. Unfortunately I don't and saving lives is what I've chosen to do with my life. So I interact with people every single day. Hear them cry about their daughters, sons, mothers fathers who are now dead because of sick twisted people who think it is their right to end someone's life just because it made them feel good. Sort of like people on CZcams.
i agree .
you don't throw gasoline on a fire to put it out nor do you give water to a drowning , person
Helen Joyce is great on this topic. Women like her will really will help us regain a place of sanity.
When Jordon Peterson is moved by compassion like he is here, eloquence can naturally pour out of him that's more powerful than anything engineered by a novelist or a team of script writers.
@@guido4231 He's spoken many times of a practice he went through when he was younger in which he would carefully listen to every word that came out of his mouth and check it to see if it was true or not. He would not allow himself the laziness of saying things that weren't true. Now, we each have different perspectives, and one person's truth may seem untrue to someone else; maybe they're both true, from a higher perspective. But the claim that he is insincere, not interested in the truth, or mean-spirited in some way -- given the harsh truths he will allow himself to say -- is merely politically motivated, in my view, not fundamentally truth-oriented. The proof is in the pudding. The number of people he's helped and fundamentally encouraged speaks for itself. And I don't have to agree with every little last word to admit that.
I love this. Two highly intelligent people discussing facts. Keep this going, this ideology has to end.
We desperately need to focus on mental health. I used to work in mental health, specifically with children and adolescents. They are so lost and distraught over not only who they are, but also about the trauma they carry. The number of kids I worked with who have serious trauma history was staggering to me. We need to show these kids compassion, and it infuriates me that they are being used as a tool to make money and push an agenda. It truly is evil.
As a female who would be what we call non-conforming, I have this to say to young women who feel different and confused: Getting desperate is about the worst thing you can do, especially when things do get better. I had literally no friends in my early teens. All my friends dumped me out because I wasn't comfortable in girls' clothes or being a girl in general and those who didn't ignore me, picked on me relentlessly. But you know what? As an adult, I could now choose who I wished to associate with. I don't associate with anyone from high school, aside from my best friend since kindergarten. That is liberating.
Secondly, it's the lack of faith in others. One of the biggest mistakes I ever made was assuming that no one understood me. Well, that's a narcissistic viewpoint. Because if no one understands you, you're not beholden to anyone. Well, people did understand me. They understood me better than I understood myself. and it wasn't fair for me to put an expectation on them to be "exactly like me" before I would give them the time of day.
Love this
I’m glad I read this comment. 🙌🏻
Same goes for women that have a more masculine temperament and aren't overly expressive. It can be confusing especially if you have been surrounded by many male family members or male friends growing up, and if you have a hard time comfortably integrating in traditional female circles. It gets better when you get older, especially after 25.
I'm one of those women that is naturally just more masculine temperament and personality. Doesn't make me a man, I'm still a woman and always will be. But it does make it more difficult for me to find female friends that understand me. But i feel that because of that challenge in finding friends, it allowed me to find the truest of friends compared to the people that I might have thought were my friends; saved me from having a lot of fake friends.
I was a tomboy as a kid, in elementary school my friends were mostly boys and I had one girlfriend, because I was so poor and didn’t dress nice girls didn’t want to be friends with me. Dad was alcoholic, saw him twice a year, mom always worked. Never wanted to be a trans or lesbian. First thing you need to remove yourself from toxic people, second thing seek help from psychologist. When person is occupied with his/her life they don’t have time for depression. As a kid with troubles family I also joined a theatre group, choir and dance. I was always occupied and that’s why never felt lonely.
Thank you Dr Peterson for caring so much about those girls who's lives are being destroyed by the trans agenda lies. Girls who might never get to be mothers, who might forever be dependent on pharmaceuticals, who might lose so much on the road to the impossible. Your deep care moved me. You are a good man.
It so refreshing to see an example of true womanhood in this discussion.
There are actually strong woman in our society and great God I love hearing them have discussions!
Who would deny that Dr. Peterson speaks from the heart as well as from the head, and that he truly cares about the things he discusses?
What do you mean speak from the heart?
Uh... me? I believe that he (allegedly) has N*rcissistic Personality Disorder. 🙃
@@testcase6997 That he needs tampax and a nurofen!
Ah, the resentful, irresponsible, half-witted marxist libtard losers showing their true colors again!
@@testcase6997 Well, I mean that you're an imbecile.
This conversation is very important in so many ways!
My sister is Trans! She is 18 years younger than me and is the youngest of us four siblings. I have three sisters and all of us have our experiences we are going through. My youngest sister we just didn't realize what she was going through until it fully manifested. My sisters and I all went through trends in our teens that were extreme, from running away, drugs and alcohol, friends that were not good influence, and so on.
My family and I have been wrestling with this Trans thing and it's not easy. My mother is stressed out and blames herself for all of our childhood development, but my youngest sister she is extremely concerned about. We know how it came to be or the points were she began to have these ideas. We just don't know how to navigate forward any more. If we address concerns then she pushes everyone away and we don't hear from her. She been on testosterone for over five years now and is losing hair and has told one of my sisters that she is having pain in her private areas and more. She refuses to see a doctor and will not except there's a problem with her health.
What ever this is, it's more than just a trend like of past generations. I only pray for help because, I don't think the outcome is going to be good and it's becoming self evident she's going to suffer greatly and we are powerless to stop it.
It's a response to trauma. It's also being linked to hormones during pregnancy. It's also a social contagion.
I really feel for you. No matter what, you are her brother and at some level, she will be able to feel your love and support. This phenomena is so powerful sometimes I think it's something like a war that just happens and changes everyone's lives. Best of luck to you and your sister.
Please have her get checked for vag1nal atrophy. It’s a very common issue for women who get put on testosterone and needs to be treated early. The most common symptom is pains in the abdominal and pelvic region
Joining you in prayer for your sister. God bless.
Why do you think you and all your siblings went through extreme phases as teens?
I don’t understand why humans are so dissatisfied with themselves. We should be happy to be alive because the chance of being born is a miracle. You are right, it is all about narcissism. Our world is in love with a reflection of beauty, just like narcissus and we all know what happened to him. Be happy with who you are inside, the outside is just packaging.
Do you know that transitioning actually changes a lot of things that are not about looks? Like, a lot of trans people feel less depressed and dissociated on hormones, just from the hormones, without their body having changed noticably, like their brain just works better on this hormone. Hormones also change your tissues, they change how your skin feels, they change how hot you feel, they change your immune system.
@@toni2309'Less depressed' for now
@@toni2309all bad
I spoke to an older lady yesterday about the medication she’s had to be on for 15 years because her hormones just would not balance after getting a medically necessary hysterectomy years ago. These operations that young people are getting will have serious side effects for life and it is heart breaking to see them being encouraged when they are at the most irrational phases as young teens making decisions that aren’t being guided properly.
Pride & the outright avoidance of suffering will destroy any society.
To me as a young mother of a very sweet boy is abhorrent and unacceptable to even think of allowing anyone outside my inner circle to influence whatever concerning my child. Social media created the perfect spot for challenged people to have a loud platform and connected them to speakers. My teen students whave the most stupid ideas perpetuated by the media and no wonder they're confused! Their parents don't help by working long hours, not even taking any interest into what their children fancy reading/watching. Children deserve their families' protective boundaries.
Jordan weeps as much as I do..I love you for that Jordan.
Well, it becomes embarrassing. Yes, men are free to show their emotions, but it is uncanny too much, especially in connection with his recent turn to religiosity.
I watched a documentary years ago where a young boy wanted to transition into a woman. I think it was one of those mtv documentaries. I forgot the name of the show though. But anyways he was stating that he had to go through several years of therapy and could not get the surgery until he was like 25 or 26 years old. But for science to approve to down the age limit is insanity. My child's 11 and often times when I ask her if she's hungary she would say no. But as soon as I get done cooking here she comes to fix herself a plate. I recognize this because I was just like that. The bottom line is children do not know what they want. And sometimes when they are mad they talk themselves out of missing out on things because they are stubborn. But all of this plays a role into the minds of a child and some adults. Keeping up with peer pressure or a character they created in the school system also factors into there decisions. I am glad you are genuinely passionate about this issue. Which came into the public not to many years ago. One thing led to another. But pushing an agenda on children is irresponsible and immoral. Let them decide this on there own when they are in there adult minds. Now I cant say whether someone will have to answer for this because I honestly dont know. And I have a reason why I just do not care to discuss why at the moment. But just incase someone did you can bet your bottom dollar the doctor and the child and now the parent will have to be responsible.Sometimes a loving parent wants to do whatever they can to make their children happy but a loving parents knows that a simple no is also giving love to a child. They need to raise the age limit and do intense therapy to both parent and child for years until they are 25.
I feel 100 the same as you guys, this is horrible child mutilation.
Jordan being brought to tears really rains in on the importance of this message. All voices should be heard, regardless of personal belief. Facts must be heard over opinion, thank you for this.
Actually, he has tears all the time. It does not tell anything other than that he has become emotionally unstable.
The problem with these influencers, actors, singers entertainers is the lack a true grasp of reality. From the moment they achieve ‘success’ people never say no to them. They become convinced of their own personal important ness and that they are insightful and always right. I knew a guy who worked as a security guard, bodyguard. He told us some funny tales about who he spent time with. James Caan, he said was a normal head screwed on guy. Michael Jackson, he said lacked the ability either physically mentally or emotionally to be able to walk to the corner shop and buy a pint of milk.
Well said. I wish people would just follow the science. We have trusted it thus far and it's got a good track record.
@Ron G That's strange!
I was at the shops today and a man stood in front of me in a pair of jeans that He had modified.
He had made an extra comb shaped pocket at the back of his pants near the central seam between the left and the right bottom cheek.
"What's that extra little pocket for?" I asked quite bemused by the clothing design novelty.
"That's where I put my Crumbed Sausage to keep it warm". He replied as He pulled a perfectly browned, piping hot Crumbed Sausage from the little Saveloy shaped back pocket. Then He looked vexed and continued somewhat ambivalently. "Gnaaaaw! Ah sore. I have to put it back inside my crevice pocket". The Chinaman named Hamchuck said somewhat despondent at my scrutiny.
When his voice breaks you can tell how much he cares about this topic. Love his work and how deeply he feels about these matters. 😍
She has a very good point, institutions and powerful people should protect their employees if they act/speak common sense
The most common lie we tell children is making them believe the world were a safe place. The fundamental tragedy of man is that he learns to be a child from childhood on.
I tried to be compassionate I tried to be understanding and I tried to live and let live, it wasn’t enough, it’s never enough and I found myself finally coming to point where I can’t stay silent anymore.
Just say “NO” and don’t back down, that’s the message to be sent to these sad power-hungry people, I’m not playing their game anymore I’m not even going to even play by their rules anymore, enough is enough the answer to any of your requests from now on is “NO,” and if you don’t like it tough luck it’s your own damn fault for pushing us too far!
I remember when female circumcision and also male circumcision was denounced as mutilation of young bodies, that these children are immature to consent to these surgeries.Anyone notice that these practices are now seldom mentioned? What is happening now goes beyond the former - it is actually being promoted - you feel a certain way today - take action and render yourself infertile, not sexually present and be reliant on chemical hormones to keep you that way till you die. All subject to availability and cost of these hormones. What can go wrong for these children? So much...
You're a good man JP.
He genuinely & deeply cares
🇷🇺✌🇷🇺
@Ron G That's strange!
I was at the shops today and a man stood in front of me in a pair of jeans that He had modified.
He had made an extra comb shaped pocket at the back of his pants near the central seam between the left and the right bottom cheek.
"What's that extra little pocket for?" I asked quite bemused by the clothing design novelty.
"That's where I put my Crumbed Sausage to keep it warm". He replied as He pulled a perfectly browned, piping hot Crumbed Sausage from the little Saveloy shaped back pocket. Then He looked vexed and continued somewhat ambivalently. "Gnaaaaw! Ah sore. I have to put it back inside my crevice pocket". The Chinaman named Hamchuck said somewhat despondent at my scrutiny.
I've been noticing this as well. This obsession with your image/appearance and how everyone else's perspectives on your image/appearance must validate your perception of your image/appearance. It's nothing more than ruminating about me me me me and what others are thinking about me me me me. This rise in narcissism is alarming.
Institutions have finally been fully captured enough so that it's now viable to put 'The Plan' into action.
' The Plan' is all what you're observing.
The result IS the objective.
Jordan is the most caring guy in the world. I'm mad at people hurting kids in that way because it WILL and IS hurting them.
I love Jordan Peterson, he is seriously a treasure a true gem to come out of Canada and he so adorable in a loveable grandpa kinda way.
In Sweden these transformations are converted by the public health care. So basically no cost for the surgery, pills etc etc. The psychological evaluations that is needed before also included of course.
We're taking it one notch further.
Mhm, except "no cost" for the individual equels treatments payed with tax payers money. So, it's quite a high cost, considering surgery isn't cheap, not to mention the hormone treatments they'll need FOR LIFE.
I agree, don’t lie to your children, starting with Santa Claus, please lies are no good for no one. Teach them to be Happy with their own selfs, and tell them you love them
it's a cry for help we are being conditioned to ignore (again); it's just easier than facing a most uncomfortable truth: Child Sexual Abuse.
The statistics of sexual abuse in this world are horrific. Child-trafficking is rampant. The brain of a child is still growing until 15, some say even 21. From all mammals humans need the most time to develope their sexual maturity. If a child is sexually abused and represses the memories it will likely develop an identity disorder. Your body serves as 'memory' of all sensible experiences. Your body keeps the score. Sexual abuse can be identified in your brain. Thus the neurological connections have been altered by sexual violence permanently. Of course a child will develop an identity disorder if sexually abused. And these people or let's say the psychiatric establishment abuse the child further. Instead of of offering therapy they destroy their hormones and cut them up.
If undisturbed and not traumatised nobody would neglect his own body.
This. I can't believe doctors and psychologists are supporting affirmative "treatment".
Has the chaos gone too far or will we be able to catch it in time. These are exciting times but the anxiety is a killer
It's already been caught. We just have to keep on the right track. It won't ever be gone entirely, and it will only get more and more manageable. Embrace the good around us
@@EveryLittleBitCounts Momentum and perspective are fickle bitches but I sure hope so
It's gone to far, we can do are best to let it down easy...
You ain't seen nothing, yet. 🤭
@@alexb8926 wrong. If it was too far we'd all be gone. Only people who have given up can be consumed. If you want to give up, you don't have a right to make the claim that everyone has to give up
I have real genuine love, and respect for Dr Peterson. It's so obvious that he has real genuine love for people who suffer. Him being absolutely BRILLIANT, is just a pleasant bonus gift for the rest of mankind. This man really should be some type of supreme leader in our society, and he would be if he'd existed at ANY other point in the history of humanity. The ONLY reason he isn't right now is bc we are living in some sort of alternate reality in which people are calling good evil, and evil good. (As was prophecy)
yes from what scripture says we are in those days
@@xxbiggavoxx5871 Yes we absolutely are, and it's just getting started. This is going to be a wonderful opportunity for us to practice loving our neighbors as we love ourselves. ❤ That's a certainty.
I have been listening to so many young women who are detransitioning and they all sound like me in my early teens. Uncomfortable in their bodies, at odds with the society around them, and this idea lodged in their psyche that some sort of magical transformation will cure all of this. My transformation idea manifested in severe anorexia--that if I was just thin enough this would make me happy. I weighed 68 pounds when I was 15. My internal organs and saliva glands poked through the underlying skin and I had an open sore at my coccyx that would never heal because I kept doing sit ups. I had to be hospitalized just so I wouldn't kill myself. It felt like an incarceration. So I know the internal, spiritual side of this--the promise of transformation and the lure of that lie. It's taken me so many years to unravel this inner mystery but this is, at it's core, a spiritual problem and emptiness that anything external will NOT heal. I cannot imagine how painful it must be to have this need and these predatory people who should be trusted for healthful advice descend and fill you with their lies that has you mutilating a perfectly healthy body and a dependence on pharmaceuticals for the rest of your life. The truth is, you program yourself to believe these things, you find that they don't work, and you expend all your energy trying to maintain this lie you've invested so heavily in. Permanently altering your body outside the nature of how you were formed in your mother's womb has to be one of the saddest and destructive ideas ever introduced. I lived and living made me face and fight with some very bad agreements and ideas I made with myself that I've worked hard to disentangle myself from over the years. I cannot imagine the burden of what these people go through. I genuinely weep for them. May God have mercy on us for every allowing something so detestable into our society--especially onto the young who look to us for protection, safety, and wisdom. How society has luridly failed them.
so many trans identifying females are have had anorexia
It is great that detrans people are sharing their stories, that people have others to relate to, how you can share your pain and be understood, but why generalize it on trans people? Why say that altering your body has do be sad and destructive for everyone? As a trans person, I experience these things very differently. I'm on a journey to find myself, and to live as my true self, on a journey to find comfort in my body, to feel comfortable when I'm present in my body.
I'm not looking forward to some sort of abstract transition, I am looking forward to bottom growth, to having a beard, to put my hand on my chest and feel what I was expecting and what feels right.
Don't weep for me if they are not happy tears.
Thank you for talking to Ms Joyce, she is brilliant
There are lots and lots of people that have been operated to change their gender as teenagers, and now they truly unhappy and very repentant of what they have done.
I feel for them because they are so miserable now.
I think we need more Jordan Peterson and Helen discussions!
This subject makes Jordan Peterson emotional because he knows how deep this goes and the anguish to follow after all this is done.
Cringe
@@quetailion6762 Cringe
Who is this Helen Joyce person, I have never heard of her, but she is brilliant! I'm going to watch more of her matrial because I found her very insightful and the ideas she connected were disparate and distant but connected well at higher levels of abstraction. What a wonderful lady.
Yeah she has been interviewed on a lot of podcasts and it seems she brings something new every time.
She’s superb - very good book by her, Trans.
Whatever I have thought about this very strange phenomenon, I’m pretty sure Helen Joyce has thought about it longer & better.
Brilliance and vulnerability are JP's killer combination. There could not be a better role model for young men.
Wonderful to see Helen on this channel. She is an inspiration and hero of mine.
After seeing the Brand interview with Jordan I felt frustrated at the problematic positioning Brand made of Jordan's critique and anger as simply representing a lack of compassion. It is so good to see Jordan discussing this issue with Helen in ways that really highlight how compassion informs the very center of the critique of radical gender orthodoxy and lying to children about sex. 'Kindness' reductionism will just not do in the face of this problem and its harmful impacts. Arguably, compassion also comes in many forms.
Particularly jarring in Brand's challenge to Jordan is that Jordan has a pretty solid record of compassion in action. Throughout his career, as far as visible in the public forum, Jordan is compassion-centered (teaching, coaching, therapy). And I include in that, dialogues where Jordan and I may disagree on women's rights, still his focus is compassion, albeit for young men grappling with these complex issues. Thank you to Helen and Jordan for this intelligent and caring discussion in the face of such personal criticism and, undoubtedly, heavy emotional burdens.
Thank God for sanity!! 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
I’m so so horrified at all this and what’s happening in Scotland
Shared on my FB page. Also, I think there was a sharp drop in what one would expect from major institutions after 9/11.
Every generation has had this sort of subculture. Punks. Goths. Emos. People, especially teens, who didn't fit in, who felt lonely and depressed, who clung desperately to a method of self expression that appeared unique but also identified them as a member of a group.
The difference being, the adults of bygone eras knew this was a phase that 99.9% of kids grow out of with little ill effects. You might end up with a few piercing scars or an ugly tattoo, or even just alot of embarrassing photos, but for the most part very few adults continued to express themselves the same way. Today we are giving them sterilising drugs, lopping off body parts, and brainwashing children with an ideology they couldn't understand even if the people pushing it were capable of explaining it.
The Trans craze is so scary and dangerous. So many kids are going to go along with these lies thinking they will be so happy after being mutilated and chemically altered and will wake up one day and realize they're lives have been destroyed and they cannot get back the healthy bodies they had and all of the blessings that came with that. Any Dr. that will mutilate a child for profit is sick and should have their medical license revoked at the very least.
Just thinking about how this very interesting conversation is made possible by free speech.
Peterson has already been kicked out of Twitter, and had extreme challenges with work, there isn’t really any free speech anymore, his personal costs is higher than most people can imagine.
When he started crying about the young girls with no-one to love them enough! Sweet Lord Jesus, thankyou for Jordan Peterson.
You can also care about girls not being loved enough without bullying Elliot Page. I really don't understand why he tweeted what he tweeted, it was really rough.
YT taking down the full interview is disgusting. I'm amazed actually that JP is allowed to have a channel given how YT want to control what thoughts people are allowed to speak out loud.
Jordan if we could have you and Pierre running Canada now that would be transformative
Excellent conversation
Everyone on this side of the 'debate' are fighting the good fight. More power to them.
This man. This man is so compassionate
That's the problem with being the silent majority. It's often the traditional, conservative people that are the silent majority - they're traditional, they're polite, they're agreeable. It's important to be disagreeable with people that don't mean you well. If there's one thing I could tell a lot of people, that would certainly be something I would say. Stand by your convictions. Behind all convictions is bravery, as C.S. Lewis would say, otherwise you have no convictions at all when it comes down to it.
I don’t lie to kids.. I’m on their level anyways.. kids like me more than adults do.
>>I don’t lie to kids.. I’m on their level anyways.. kids like me more than adults do.""
I am 43 and get along with kid just fine. I never let my adult self become separated from my inner child to stay whole. Do you find you still have that inner child spark in you as well? If so, how helpful do you think that is?
And I do not lie to kids either, and I dont talk to them like children. Even though many people dont agree with me that if a kid asks me something like is santa real, I will say no. Now how many parents do lie to their children about things like this? From what I can tell, its a big majority.
God bless dr J. Praying for you and the rest of the world daily
This was a beautiful conversation. Thank you for being so blunt.
Omg 2 minutes in & he’s crying. Here for Helen Joyce, great woman!
I've both these people. Love them so much. Thanks for their care and clarity x
Studies are showing that autism is very prevalent in young people with these tendencies. It could be the individual searching for an identity.
Or there could be a genetic link between autism and trans identity, it could be that autistic people more readily readily recognize that they are trans because they are not as affected by social pressure to conform, or it could be that being autistic just often comes with having a different understanding of gender.
I recently tried to reason with a supporter of trans issues. I tried to reason within to no avail? I got I wasn’t allowed to speak on the issue. I tired to point out the flaws. I got the typical man bashing. Got told the gender binary doesn’t exist. Which was totally a breach of honour thy mother and father. Forgetting the past. Been labelled anti trans for even uttering the binary. I certainly don’t want these types of people to suffer. but I’d wish there was a better way to hand it? I even went as far a trying to explain the endocrine system and chromosomes. How it somehow is playing god with peoples lives? Even look at it from an engineering prospective. Even with the best 3D printed technologies and gene editing? you still have massive issues to overcome. I’m no expert on these matters, I barely graze them. I do however think the current trends frightening. Tictok mainly is Chinese propaganda tool. Many the kinds on there wouldn’t last 5 mins in a invasion? They would likely all be rounded up? When countries want to conquest? they don’t fight the men. they go after the women. It the dirtiest trick in the book. Transitioning kids is just the latest in a long line of atrocities. Stretching way back.
Any social media platform is a propaganda tool to someone who's had bad intentions. Don't generalize on the Chinese because you're being blinded to criminals of other races including your own. Definitely not going to pose a solution that.
Chinese TikTok is Douyin which is an app on its own and has separate contents from the TikTok we see which is mostly westernized. The trans people and LGBTQ members i see there are mostly from the US.
@@AA-mp8bj I wouldn’t of said blinded? Chinese tiktok is way different to how it is everywhere else. Only stated an example? Sun tzu art of war mentions way to destroy your enemies. In most wars they go after the women and children. The men can be subverted or supplanted and will die off? It usually how it goes?
A whole lot of nasty business goes down whether I see it or not? I hazard a guess why I just got a reply? Though fat lot of good that would do? It is a global issue. I’ve heard a lot of screaming about rights? Without people considering the right to do so? Many still are reeling after the crimes of the past irrespective of who committed them?
Yes it been a hard task seeing beyond my own horizons! Realising how much I was in the dark about a lot of things?! In many respects I still am! It burden and a curse for all the harm it does. 12 days is a long time in my world. All I can say our backs are up against the wall. Everyone’s incredulity has indeed Been the defining factor?! As it goes there’s something in the breeding that has caused this effect? We’re dealing with origins of humanity itself. Close familiarity and how many time people are related to particular figure from history. You have to take pair bonding into account? How many times people have bonded over the eons? It a massive interwoven mess. That includes odin himself if it truly meant to believe? Desire and despair being the monster that created it?
Yes a lot of people are foolhardy! The inbreeding has become a major factor in humanities survival. It rippled out across time and space much like quantum dynamics is? There will be a far degree of quantum entanglement!? Just because it the stuff you are made from kicking everything into high gear?
You sometimes get told how things are going to go down before they happen? Without actually having input from anyone else? Usually the most unavoidable thing will become most prominent? I know from my own dream trips this is so! I hate to mention Ragnarok but that as close of a descriptive as your going to get? Truth is I don’t try to have any part in the evils yet to come? That way lays our doom, our deaths, and destruction. Frankly there something big happen out in the cosmos? In a blink of an eye its all gone! Regardless of what you suggest? There always that something else bit that usually get missed? We’re all been hoodwinked here! For me the worst is yet to come? It could be worse it could be a nuclear Holocaust waiting to happen? While many squabble of these issues about trans? There are larger forces in play! Which make the trans issues look tiny?! You hardly going to argue about trans issues when your starving to death? Or dying from radiation sickness? The worst is still there and it’s still all to play for? Even if I’m here or not?
@@jasonhaymanonthedrawingboard You know Jason i can tell you are quite knowledgeable on socioeconomic issues and just like me, fear the worst for humanity. Yes I agree, there is more to de-root than meets the eye.
But in order to be effective communicators and educators on these pressing problems, we must refrain from jumping from one topic to another and focus on one matter at a time - in this case, trans issues and how most doublespeak in their favor to make everything seem logical and guise everything as their way of being "rightfully accepted into society".
Avoid the idea of insisting on one true evil source only (i.e. China manipulating everything via TikTok) as each country and each race is its own source of its own evil. This is what I meant by being blinded and causing blindness. Instead being effective in relaying the problem to the masses, you make China pop up and suddenly it's all about the Chinese not the trans anymore.
I also fear that one day we will all just disappear in a blink of an eye. But while we are here, we must strive to give strong and good direction and not an explosion of all of humanity's problems at once.
@@AA-mp8bj fair shout! Indeed focusing on task at a time works for a little while? Till the next issue or problem comes along to put you in a tail spin? Unfortunately having the time to correct the issue before the the next one strikes? Is pure luxury! I think the saying is? “no rest for the wicked”? I know the Brits weren’t perfect when ruling the empire. You only need to see what they did to the boers or in Kenya? To know that! To understand you must understand the who? the how’s? and the why’s ? The issue I have if your too refrained? you can’t communicate at all! In a crisis situation that’s extremely bad! not only are you unable to say what wrong? your also unable to find the solution that best fixes the problem?
From a diagnostic standpoint if you don’t have the best information to hand? Your more likely to incur the worst outcome? The issue I see with social media is it has achieved the one thing army’s couldn’t? That is to distract people and keep them from ever needing to meet face to face. It is stranger kills stranger scenario. In many ways it is promoting people to be self absorbed. Though I agree it’s best to be careful when using the word evil. In the case of social media? its warranted! For what doesn’t unite us will forever divided us? Usually there isn’t a fix to that? I’ve been trying for a number of years still I’m yet to find one? It that free will stuff? That can be so pesky and leave you asking what holding it all together? As far as I can tell not much? Super determinism definitely has it parts to play here? Though to what degree would be hard for me to say? Someone might one day? You also have the cause and effect cycle? built on each and very choice people make? That in itself is chaotic. The most likely position we are all in is a blind one?
It down to us how we illuminate that darkness and bring light?
We should all know how the road to hell is paved? Another way I see it is know thy self? Know thy enemy! In the last 20 year since computer science became a thing? We have seen lots of changes! but also similar problems that go along with it? 10 year old me wouldn’t have recognised the world we live in today? Ten year old me was happy with puzzles and board games. playing with the local kinds in the park out the back. Back when windows 98 was a thing! I doubt there was this level of risk involved with the technology. Fast forward and what your dealing with is the absolute limits of humans capacity for discernment? In many way I feel sorry for the kid caught up in the trans issues. It like that annoying kid that runs up to you waving their arm? Then not allowing you to proceed as you wished to? To solve the issue we face we have to conclude to some context? Some reality? Dancing on the razor blades while pretending your not going to fall or slip? Yma o hyd spring to mind? Despite everything we are all still here! To help the poor the souls? They need to know who they are fully. Human genome project might help? As it give them a road map? If they are to have any future at all? If they are to know what they bring to the table? They going to need it! Prefrontal cortex stuff? The? do you know where your going, and what is down that road? Who’s are they? what are they must be answered? If they are going any help at all?
Trans person here. There is a sex binary in evolutionary science, which is based on gametes. It's a very nice definition for describing evolution. In medicine, usually, sex is seen as all the differences hormones, gametes, primary and secondary sex characteristics. And those don't necessarily show a binary, but are more bimodal.
Gender on the other hand, gender is just a fancy word to group together experiences people have. It's social, not biological, it's seperating people in society into groups. And I mean, sure, a society can group people into just two groups, but other societies can do otherwise, and people can feel like they belong into neither.
I can't quite get my head around it all. Could it all have something to do with the abundance of fiction, media and images of imagination in the world? The world seems to worship fictional media, which may lead to the temptation to reconstruct reality or transcend the limits of reality in some way. Because fictional media displays models of reality designed by imagination, it could tempt us into wanting to inhabit some kind of imaginary model of reality. This may lead to people caring less about reality and more about the models of reality in their imagination. And a sign of this may be some people wanting to transcend the limits of biology and construct their own imaginary identity.
What is happening to children is criminal.
Jordan, I know you are passionate but you never used to interupt people. I was always impressed at how you listened patiently even to people you did not agree with. You've been interupting a lot lately.
This was a great, passionate discussion. It’s obvious that they respect each other immensely, and Ms. Joyce got at least half the time I’m sure. These adults don’t need your moral correction.
Psychiatrist and author of the book The Master and his Emissary: The Devided Brain and the Making of the Western World, Dr. Iain McGilchrist explains how
the brain is plastic; "There's a dialogue between mind and matter - And that cuts both ways, because what it means is that we can make our minds and our brains and our world what we want. But it also means, we can make our minds and our brains and the world whatever we want. So we have to be very careful what it is we decide we need, and to think carefully where we're going, because we may require that technically perfect, rationally materialistic realm of happiness. And that may turn out to be worse than our worst depressions."
Bro Peterson is literally choking up over this. He is at WAR💯🙏
I love Jordan Peterson and his compassion and empathy.
Most of all his common sense and love of our traditions and culture.
I'd truly love to meet the Man :)
We aren’t doing anything because we are so inundated with so many problems that effect us it’s put on the back burner
Here we go Jordan Peterson’s gonna cry again
It's hilarious tho😂
I try not to say anything, but it's a constant cycle with him now. Maybe he's on some medicine that is making him extra emotional.
Lying to children is the fundamental job description of religion in all of its bizarre manifestations. Aside from that fact, I agree that messing with the hormones of a child or performing body altering surgery on a child should be illegal. Only an ADULT should be able to make such life altering decision FOR THEMSLELVES.
The fact that this even needs to be said is insane to me. This would have been common sense 10 years ago. Also, woke ideology is a nuReligion, it's a narcissistic political religion for all intents and purposes; they have ridged and illogical beliefs that appeal to feelings and ego, they ostracize and shame people to control the masses, and now they have begun physically sacrificing children. Next step is holy wars.
I have been saying this for years since this crap started. The parents are just as much to blame along side the Doctors! I was called every name in the book.
Yes, the parents are the problem. I can't care about every offspring from every bad parent anymore. Sorry, I'm not sorry.
To some degree all people go through dysphoria at puberty , it's a natural part of growing up. What we go through from child to adult is a sexual metamorphosis.
Unfortunately, people can't seem to get their sex organs out of their damn minds. I don't walk through life thinking about my reproductive organs, nor my activities being gender appropriate, it's absurd.
My mother was a narcissistic sociopath so there was no reality. I had to agree to the reality she wrote. She would lie about bad things not happening that actually happened. She lied about good things happening that never happened. I know a lot of the parents doing this to their children and attempting to change their gender are narcissists or narcissistic sociopaths. Just from video clips from Transhood or interviews, the James Younger case. Parents going along with this are committing acts of sexual abuse. It's abhorrent.
Jordan Peterson on his best behavior here! Can't help but love him!
Really got the subscribe to the daily wire. This was an excellent exchange, would love to see and hear all of it.
Sometimes there are things you CANT change.
Why is he always crying? It's creepy...
@@CCave-wj6xy I'm glad I'm not the only person who noticed that.
He's not on the tranquillisers anymore- he's had a really difficult physical withdrawal but it will be a much larger longer and likely even harder mental withdrawl, add in the feelings of injustice about how he's been treated that would be hard for anyone to cope with and he clearly hasn't been able to work through (who would in that situation?).. he'll be feeling a lot more than he has for many years.
Day 68 of VERY highly recommending that you check out the manga "Berserk" by Kentaro Muira. It is a dark and grim story, and quite brutal, but it captures some of the great characters of humanity. I would also recommend you go check out the writer George MacDonald. I am reading through his works right now, and of the ones I've read, "Phantastes" and "The wow o' Rivven" stand out as masterpieces.
"It borders on demonic"Exactly Jordan Peterson... actually it's beyond being borders on demonic...its strait up demonic
And I’m so angry that no one listened to me all those decades ago. I’m so angry that I was made to look like a lunatic from the perspective of others. I feel vindicated, sure, but the anger is stronger.
The word they hate is sinners.
I agree with what you have said Jordan, but i feel like you have only just touched the surface with this subject. Lying to children about trans and identity is just one example. What about other topics such as santa clause and the tooth fairy. What positives and negative do these ideologies have on children? I would like to know your thoughts on this
Read ‘The Uses of Enchantment’ by Bruno Bettelheim.
@@Pneumanon just ordered it. Thank you :)
I think that Santa and the tooth fairy are quite a different thing. Maybe their most important function actually is that these "lies" are clearly and intentionally meant to be discovered by the child when it grows up.
Social media is creating so much confusion amongst us
Decisions made on impulsive emotions are the worst.
CZcams’s infringement on freedom of thought/speech is upsetting. If this continues, I will have to support other platforms where Peterson’s podcasts and lectures are available. It would be much better if CZcams would make a video about what specifically Peterson is saying that they find to be hate speech and explain what better behavior would look like. Maybe it could automatically play after Peterson’s video.
I support JP but I wish he would stop using the word 'demonic'. It's a strange choice of words for someone with his vocab
These 2 may be the Queen and King of Brilliant Rants. Holy moly.
Well spoken, I love the video Jordan.
The whole gender thing is an idelogical venom.