Ep 287: Dr. Jagman Gurung | Kirat History, Newars, Monarchy | Sushant Pradhan Podcast
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- čas přidán 6. 07. 2024
- Dr. Jagman Gurung is a historian, author, and lecturer on Nepali culture. He is a recipient of various national awards for his work related to the culture and history of Nepal. He was also the vice-chancellor of Nepal Academy. In this podcast, he talks about Kirat History, Newars, Politics, Civilizations, Tantra, and more.
Timestamps:
0:00 Highlights
1:03 Daura Suruwal
4:49 Dhaka Topi
6:28 Newar
10:57 Pisach Kaal
16:28 Dangols Kiratis?
23:10 Kirats
29:30 Gurungs
33:23 Kathmandu: Asur's Kingdom?
36:45 Formation of Kathmandu
41:43 Civilization & Sculptures
46:41 Stone & Sculpture Worship
54:01 Modi
57:58 Monarchy in Nepal
1:01:53 Politics, Balen, Chiribabu
1:07:45 Tantra
1:20:05 How Lichhavi Era Ended
1:22:38 Narabali- Sacrifise
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One and only Nepalipodcast which talks about knowledge , information, history, work , real politics…. Hats off for sushant pradhan…
Agree ❤
Totally agree 👍
Wad historic events did he said true.
आज पाहुना चै चिनेरै ल्याको देखियो। सस्कृतीबिद डा जगमान गुरुङ जसले धर्म र सस्कृतिको बारेमा यति ज्ञान राख्नुहुन्छ कि उहाँ संग धेरै अन्तरबार्ता गरेर अभिलेख सङ्ग्रह गर्नु अपरिहार्य छ।
😂😂😂😂😂😂टपरे को झोले हो केही थाहा छैन ! चन्दने हो गुरुङ भन्दानि😁😁😁
@@YonjanRajatai bhotay le maane Buddha ne Hindu nai thyo ne 😅
Most awaited guest. I think you make couple of episodes with him.
I guess he is the one of most renowned person to know nepal and tantra ! I would like to see next episode with him
Candid guest who always spreads the knowledge of our beautiful Nepali culture. Such a great heritage and wide and rich culture. What a great assimilation.
Our Stantan culture where we accumulate all cultures to be proud Nepali where Newar offer eeg to Ganesha and bahun also pray the same idol even though in fasting without hesitation as we accept this as coexistence 🙏🏽❤️😇.
जगमान गुरुङ प्रखर विद्वान बाट धेरै राम्रा कुरार इतिहास को ज्ञान सुन्नपाइयो ।दुबै जनालाइ धेरै धन्यवाद ।
रमाईलो लाग्यो बाजे संगको पोडकास्ट, जय जय माँ कामाख्या, जय श्री काल भैरव, जय नेपाल
Jai Kamrupa Kamakhya, Jai Shri Bhairav Baba, Jai Nepal 🔱
When everyone mocking him for his knowledge ask yourself what are you good at just laughing at his knowledge ?? He is pioneer of Nepal history.. yetaikai podcast ma bolaudaina he has good knowledge of culture of Nepal.
Exactly ke ta aafai research garera bolnu haina ... Nepali le paye Indra lai ne swarga ko bayan gardinxa 😂😂
Why the Indigenous Status of Limbus Should Be RevokedThe question of indigenous status in Nepal is a contentious issue shaped by historical, cultural, and political factors. The Limbus, a community claiming indigenous status, lack substantial historical and archaeological evidence to support this designation. This essay argues that the indigenous status of Limbus should be reconsidered due to their migratory history from Sichuan to Tibet and later to Nepal, lack of historical artifacts, and manipulation of documents with colonial assistance.Historical and Archaeological VoidUnlike other indigenous groups in Nepal, such as the Lepcha, Bhutia, and Newar, who possess rich historical records, architectural landmarks, and cultural artifacts dating back centuries, the Limbus lack tangible evidence of ancient settlements, palaces, temples, or significant archaeological finds that would substantiate their claim as indigenous to the region. The absence of such evidence raises doubts about their historical ties to the land compared to other established indigenous communities.Migration PatternsHistorical records indicate that the Limbus migrated from Sichuan, China, to Tibet in the 13th century, and subsequently moved to Nepal in the late 16th century. These migrations, marked by geopolitical shifts and cultural exchanges, highlight their origins outside the current borders of Nepal. Unlike indigenous groups with deep-rooted ancestral ties to the region, the Limbus' migratory history suggests a more recent arrival, challenging their claim to indigenous status based on continuous presence and cultural continuity.Colonial Influence and Fabrication of DocumentsDuring the colonial era, particularly under British rule, the Limbus reportedly fabricated documents to bolster their indigenous claims. This manipulation, facilitated by colonial authorities, enabled them to assert a historical narrative and gain recognition as indigenous in certain administrative contexts. Such historical revisionism and document forgery undermine the integrity of their indigenous status claim, especially when compared to the rigorous criteria and historical authenticity required for indigenous recognition in other regions.Contemporary Status in SikkimIn neighboring Sikkim, the Limbus have lost their tribal status, indicating a recognition shift that reflects deeper scrutiny of their indigenous claims. This precedent underscores the inconsistencies and challenges associated with defining indigenous identity solely based on self-proclaimed historical narratives and manipulated documentation.
@@pratikking2272 The assertion that the indigenous status of the Limbus should be revoked due to their migratory history, lack of historical artifacts, and alleged manipulation of
documents is contentious and not universally accepted. The topic of indigenous status in Nepal is complex and involves various historical, cultural, and political
dimensions. Here are some key points to consider:
1. Historical and Archaeological Evidence
While archaeological evidence plays a crucial role in substantiating claims of indigeneity, the lack of such evidence does not necessarily invalidate the claims of a
community. Indigenous status often also considers oral histories, cultural practices, and self-identification. The Limbus have a rich oral tradition and unique
cultural practices that contribute to their identity.
Historical Presence and Cultural Identity
Oral History and Traditions: The Limbu community has a rich oral tradition, including folk tales, songs, and legends that have been passed down for generations.
These traditions reflect the deep-rooted connection of the Limbus to their land and culture.
Language and Script: The Limbu language, also known as "Yakthung Pan," is a Tibeto-Burman language with its own script, "Sirijonga." The existence of a distinct
language and script is a strong indicator of a long-standing and unique cultural heritage.
2. Migration Patterns
Migration histories are common among many indigenous groups worldwide. The Limbus' migration from Sichuan to Tibet and eventually to Nepal does not automatically
disqualify them from being considered indigenous to Nepal. Many indigenous groups have histories of migration and resettlement due to various factors, including
environmental changes, conflicts, and economic opportunities.
3. Colonial Influence and Documentation
The claim that the Limbus manipulated documents with colonial assistance to assert their indigenous status needs substantial evidence. The colonial period was marked
by various administrative changes and manipulations, but attributing indigenous status solely to colonial manipulation without comprehensive evidence can be misleading.
It is essential to critically examine such claims and consider multiple sources and perspectives.
4. Contemporary Recognition
The Limbus are recognized as one of the indigenous nationalities (Adivasi Janajati) in Nepal by the Nepal Federation of Indigenous Nationalities (NEFIN). This
recognition is based on various criteria, including distinct language, culture, traditional homeland, and a sense of community.
5. Cultural and Archaeological Contributions
Cultural Landmarks: While large archaeological monuments may not be prevalent, the Limbu community has significant cultural landmarks, including traditional Limbu
houses, community spaces, and sacred sites. These contribute to the cultural landscape of the region.
Festivals and Customs: Festivals such as Chasok Tangnam and unique customs like the practice of Mundhum (Limbu oral scriptures) showcase the rich cultural tapestry of
the Limbu people.
@@pratikking2272 The assertion that the indigenous status of the Limbus should be revoked due to their migratory history, lack of historical artifacts, and alleged manipulation of documents is contentious and not universally accepted. The topic of indigenous status in Nepal is complex and involves various historical, cultural, and political dimensions. Here are some key points to consider: 1. Historical and Archaeological Evidence While archaeological evidence plays a crucial role in substantiating claims of indigeneity, the lack of such evidence does not necessarily invalidate the claims of a community. Indigenous status often also considers oral histories, cultural practices, and self-identification. The Limbus have a rich oral tradition and unique cultural practices that contribute to their identity. Historical Presence and Cultural Identity Oral History and Traditions: The Limbu community has a rich oral tradition, including folk tales, songs, and legends that have been passed down for generations. These traditions reflect the deep-rooted connection of the Limbus to their land and culture. Language and Script: The Limbu language, also known as "Yakthung Pan," is a Tibeto-Burman language with its own script, "Sirijonga." The existence of a distinct language and script is a strong indicator of a long-standing and unique cultural heritage. 2. Migration Patterns Migration histories are common among many indigenous groups worldwide. The Limbus' migration from Sichuan to Tibet and eventually to Nepal does not automatically disqualify them from being considered indigenous to Nepal. Many indigenous groups have histories of migration and resettlement due to various factors, including environmental changes, conflicts, and economic opportunities. 3. Colonial Influence and Documentation The claim that the Limbus manipulated documents with colonial assistance to assert their indigenous status needs substantial evidence. The colonial period was marked by various administrative changes and manipulations, but attributing indigenous status solely to colonial manipulation without comprehensive evidence can be misleading. It is essential to critically examine such claims and consider multiple sources and perspectives. 4. Contemporary Recognition The Limbus are recognized as one of the indigenous nationalities (Adivasi Janajati) in Nepal by the Nepal Federation of Indigenous Nationalities (NEFIN). This recognition is based on various criteria, including distinct language, culture, traditional homeland, and a sense of community. 5. Cultural and Archaeological Contributions Cultural Landmarks: While large archaeological monuments may not be prevalent, the Limbu community has significant cultural landmarks, including traditional Limbu houses, community spaces, and sacred sites. These contribute to the cultural landscape of the region. Festivals and Customs: Festivals such as Chasok Tangnam and unique customs like the practice of Mundhum (Limbu oral scriptures) showcase the rich cultural tapestry of the Limbu people.
Thank you Sushant bringing Dr Jagman Gurung… Uha ko naam lida pani ma garva mahasus garchu….. thank you ton again
Converted grg. In the grg community he is out in losar events too.
Dear Sushant you are killing in, inviting such great idols. Keep it on man
This podcast was like touching the titles. Please bring him again and elaborate about our ancient history.More ancients and untouched topics can be extracted from him.
Sir you are only my favourite podcaster ...
I don't know how 2 hours spent already in all podcaste....
Too the content kura hunchha ...
Aru podcaster ko jasto lyang lyang hudaina...
And dherai kura ko bare ma aware huinxa ....
❤❤❤
How Iman Singh Chemjong Spread Hatred Against Madhesi, Lepcha, Bhutia, Khas, and Newars
Introduction
Iman Singh Chemjong, a contentious figure in the early 20th century, played a significant role in shaping the socio-political landscape of the Himalayan region. His actions and ideologies left a lasting impact on the ethnic and cultural dynamics of communities such as the Madhesis, Lepchas, Bhutias, Khas, and Newars. Chemjong's efforts to promote Christianity and his use of divisive tactics fostered hatred and mistrust among these groups. This essay explores how Chemjong spread animosity and division, particularly through his fabrication of the Kirat identity and derogatory terminology.
The Fabrication of the Kirat Identity
One of Chemjong's most notable contributions to social discord in the region was his construction of the Kirat identity. By linking the Limbus and Rais to the ancient Kirats, he attempted to create a distinct ethnic and cultural identity that would serve his broader agenda of Christianization. This fabricated identity was used to undermine and erase the historical significance of the Madhesi, Newars, and Khas people.
Chemjong's strategy involved promoting the idea that the Kirats were the original inhabitants of the region, thereby delegitimizing the claims of other ethnic groups to the land and its history. This narrative not only served to elevate the Kirat identity but also to create a sense of alienation and resentment among other communities, particularly the Madhesis, who were portrayed as outsiders and intruders.
Spreading Hatred Against Madhesis
Chemjong's use of the term "Dhoti" as a derogatory label for Hindus, particularly those from the Indo-Gangetic plains, was a significant aspect of his divisive tactics. The term "Dhoti" was used to demean and humiliate the Madhesi community, fostering a sense of inferiority and alienation. This racial slur contributed to the growing animosity between the Madhesis and other ethnic groups in the region.
By portraying the Madhesis as culturally and ethnically inferior, Chemjong aimed to marginalize them and diminish their influence. This strategy was part of a broader effort to weaken the cohesion of Hindu communities in the region and pave the way for the spread of Christianity. The stigmatization of the Madhesis had long-lasting effects, contributing to the social and political marginalization of the community.
Division Among Lepchas, Bhutias, Magars, and Khas
Chemjong's divisive tactics were not limited to the Madhesis. He also targeted other ethnic groups such as the Lepchas, Bhutias, Magars, and Khas. By promoting negative stereotypes and fostering inter-ethnic rivalries, he sought to create a fragmented and divided society that would be more receptive to Christianization.
Among the Lepchas and Bhutias, Chemjong's efforts to promote the Kirat identity served to undermine their historical and cultural significance. By positioning the Kirats as the true indigenous people, he sought to delegitimize the claims of the Lepchas and Bhutias to the land and its heritage. This strategy created a sense of resentment and mistrust between these communities.
Chemjong specifically targeted the Magar community by labeling them as refugees from Mongolia. This derogatory characterization aimed to undermine their sense of belonging and legitimacy in the region. By portraying the Magars as outsiders, Chemjong further fragmented the ethnic landscape, creating tension and division.
Additionally, Chemjong vilified the Bhutia community, portraying them as oppressors and manipulators. By emphasizing negative stereotypes and historical grievances, he aimed to create conflict between the Bhutias and Lepchas. This strategy was designed to weaken the unity of these communities and make them more susceptible to his religious and political agenda.
The Impact on Newars
The Newars, with their rich cultural and historical heritage, were also targeted by Chemjong's divisive tactics. By promoting inter-group rivalries and fostering a sense of division, he sought to weaken the cohesion and unity of the Newar community. This strategy involved exploiting existing social and cultural differences and magnifying them to create conflict and discord.
Chemjong's efforts included creating tension between the Maharjan and Shrestha sub-groups within the Newar community. By emphasizing their differences and promoting rivalry, he aimed to fragment the Newar society. This strategy was part of a broader effort to weaken Hindu communities and promote the spread of Christianity. By undermining the unity and cohesion of the Newars, he sought to create a more receptive environment for his religious and political agenda.
Why the Indigenous Status of Limbus Should Be RevokedThe question of indigenous status in Nepal is a contentious issue shaped by historical, cultural, and political factors. The Limbus, a community claiming indigenous status, lack substantial historical and archaeological evidence to support this designation. This essay argues that the indigenous status of Limbus should be reconsidered due to their migratory history from Sichuan to Tibet and later to Nepal, lack of historical artifacts, and manipulation of documents with colonial assistance.Historical and Archaeological VoidUnlike other indigenous groups in Nepal, such as the Lepcha, Bhutia, and Newar, who possess rich historical records, architectural landmarks, and cultural artifacts dating back centuries, the Limbus lack tangible evidence of ancient settlements, palaces, temples, or significant archaeological finds that would substantiate their claim as indigenous to the region. The absence of such evidence raises doubts about their historical ties to the land compared to other established indigenous communities.Migration PatternsHistorical records indicate that the Limbus migrated from Sichuan, China, to Tibet in the 13th century, and subsequently moved to Nepal in the late 16th century. These migrations, marked by geopolitical shifts and cultural exchanges, highlight their origins outside the current borders of Nepal. Unlike indigenous groups with deep-rooted ancestral ties to the region, the Limbus' migratory history suggests a more recent arrival, challenging their claim to indigenous status based on continuous presence and cultural continuity.Colonial Influence and Fabrication of DocumentsDuring the colonial era, particularly under British rule, the Limbus reportedly fabricated documents to bolster their indigenous claims. This manipulation, facilitated by colonial authorities, enabled them to assert a historical narrative and gain recognition as indigenous in certain administrative contexts. Such historical revisionism and document forgery undermine the integrity of their indigenous status claim, especially when compared to the rigorous criteria and historical authenticity required for indigenous recognition in other regions.Contemporary Status in SikkimIn neighboring Sikkim, the Limbus have lost their tribal status, indicating a recognition shift that reflects deeper scrutiny of their indigenous claims. This precedent underscores the inconsistencies and challenges associated with defining indigenous identity solely based on self-proclaimed historical narratives and manipulated documentation.
दर्शन गुरु धेरै इच्छा , चाहना थ्यो गुरु लाई podcast पाहुना मा हेर्ने पूरा भयो 🙏
राईहरुको धामी नक्छो वा नाछुङ अझैपनी बाघ को रुप धारण गर्छन।
My respect towards your podcast is growing 🙌 🙏
Love and prayers from Pokhara brother Sushant 🙏
Thank you for inviting him. Very knowledgeable and wise attribute put together.
Had waited for him on your podcast. Finally he is here.
thank you brother one of the greatest video in my life thank you so much
Long awaited academics. His analysis is based on written n unwritten facts. Noble Gift for Nepal. A Great man. 🙏🏻
Thank you @sushant for bringing one of the greatest person from Nepal.🇳🇵
धन्यवाद जग्गान गुरुलाई
नमन डा. साब, सुशान्त सर🙏। Eagerly waiting
Most awaited guest for me. Thankyou Mr. Sushant
Me too
Why the Indigenous Status of Limbus Should Be RevokedThe question of indigenous status in Nepal is a contentious issue shaped by historical, cultural, and political factors. The Limbus, a community claiming indigenous status, lack substantial historical and archaeological evidence to support this designation. This essay argues that the indigenous status of Limbus should be reconsidered due to their migratory history from Sichuan to Tibet and later to Nepal, lack of historical artifacts, and manipulation of documents with colonial assistance.Historical and Archaeological VoidUnlike other indigenous groups in Nepal, such as the Lepcha, Bhutia, and Newar, who possess rich historical records, architectural landmarks, and cultural artifacts dating back centuries, the Limbus lack tangible evidence of ancient settlements, palaces, temples, or significant archaeological finds that would substantiate their claim as indigenous to the region. The absence of such evidence raises doubts about their historical ties to the land compared to other established indigenous communities.Migration PatternsHistorical records indicate that the Limbus migrated from Sichuan, China, to Tibet in the 13th century, and subsequently moved to Nepal in the late 16th century. These migrations, marked by geopolitical shifts and cultural exchanges, highlight their origins outside the current borders of Nepal. Unlike indigenous groups with deep-rooted ancestral ties to the region, the Limbus' migratory history suggests a more recent arrival, challenging their claim to indigenous status based on continuous presence and cultural continuity.Colonial Influence and Fabrication of DocumentsDuring the colonial era, particularly under British rule, the Limbus reportedly fabricated documents to bolster their indigenous claims. This manipulation, facilitated by colonial authorities, enabled them to assert a historical narrative and gain recognition as indigenous in certain administrative contexts. Such historical revisionism and document forgery undermine the integrity of their indigenous status claim, especially when compared to the rigorous criteria and historical authenticity required for indigenous recognition in other regions.Contemporary Status in SikkimIn neighboring Sikkim, the Limbus have lost their tribal status, indicating a recognition shift that reflects deeper scrutiny of their indigenous claims. This precedent underscores the inconsistencies and challenges associated with defining indigenous identity solely based on self-proclaimed historical narratives and manipulated documentation.
Thank you a lot for inviting the most awaited historical person among all your episode.
सुसान्त प्रधान जी लाई दौरा शुरुवाल अत्यन्त राम्रो शुहाउदो रहेछ, कृपया आगामी सबै कार्यक्रममा दौरा शुरुवाल लगाएर आउनुहोस।
हार्दिक अनुरोध।
omg he has knowledge about so many things, i genuinely believe our respected dr jagman grg has alot to offer, i have been fascinated with all this topics because he talks with so much truth and common sense. sushant jee these topics are ever green topic for your podcast. and if i were you i would have invited him for more future podcast in the topic of tantra itself and about the dev/deties and these are only one of the topics among so many topics you guys have touched upon. these type of knowledge is very rare and he seems to have a lot to share about it. jagman sir was so good in this podcast im so much attracted to his confidence with calm while speaking in these topics. it seemed to me that sushant jee was a little bit tensed through the podcast
Gem of Nepali history ❤ Thank you for choosing him in this show
best one
Thanks you
feri arko episode garnu hola
दाजु व्यग्र प्रतीक्षा
Thank you for invite him.❤
Please bring him back.. we would like to hear more podcasts with him.
Thank you for the update God bless you 🙏🇳🇵🙏 thankful God
Amazing!!!
One ep is not enough for this mine of knowledge. Dr. Jagman Gurung ji Naman
Worthy listen ❤
Guru Jukman gurung derai ramro kura ra garnu bho ra najaneka kura jhana shikna paiyo❤❤❤
It's really strange that Nepal history has been hidden from Nepalise . A lot of things are still hidden some of the things that has been pointed in this poadcast is only in this poadcast .
Thank you for making these things and presiving our history. You have to make another one more poadcast with him really informal video .
⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
Very informative❤
I really enjoy your podcast brother. Plz bring Professor Dr George Van Driem. If it is possible thank you!
I am with you. I am also want to insist that please bring Dr George van driem on your podcast. Humble requesting serve us linguistic Dr. George van driem. 🙏🏼
Underrated pod… one day everyone will listen to your podcast
Fabulous love and prayers brother 🙏 ❤️
What a great episode ❤
Naman Dr Jagman gurung
Great job sushant!!
Namaste deri ramro pauranik yachan lai Naman cha
The talk show was an excellent one .once more the old professor is to be welcmed. Sushant jee i believe you are doing that.
surely next episode
He is one of very knowledgeable man about history in Nepal
I personally feel so happy knowing that there are still many youths who are really interested in history ,culture, mythology, spirituality and Nationalism like myself.
I believe we can change the things in our country for betterment and make it prosperous again by our collective effort.
Shout out to Sushant bro, Dr. Jagman gurung and all the supporters out there, Jaya hos 🕉️.
Kahani ramro xa , 🙏 Dr Saheb
@Sushant Pradhan dai ,please ask him more about the role of Guru Macchendranath and Guru Gorakhnath in the context of Nepal in the upcoming episodes.
Wow
One of the best guest
🕉️
Tait. This converted grg is one of the biased historians of Nepal. Was the puppet of durbar. He passed thru durbar blessing
Mahele yakdam respect garne Manesh ❤❤ Dr jagman ra Dr surandra CK ❤
lovely
majja ayoo . we need more history content !!
Need more episode with him
Satya gham jhai charlaga hunxa jaya hos gurung sir❤❤
Good.
Part 2 pani lyaunu paryo
Wow. Thanks for this great show. Can you make another show with him and discuss Newa trantrism specially of guvaju( bajracharya), achaju(karmacharya) and devaju( rajopadhyaya)
Lots of questions answered about History of Nepal
ज्ञानको खानी डा० जगमान ज्यूको जय होस् !!
Good ❤❤
Nice ❤🙏
In Kirati Rai language "Kiwa/kirawa" means Tiger and Tiger's behavior( furious and courageous ) , "Kirawa" itself has meaning , later gets modified by "Kirawa" "Kirata","kirat". Ancient English text still has title as "kiratas" from "Kirata" . "Kirati" community , we call ourselves as "kirawa" not "Kirati ". Just like "Newar" community call themselves as "Newa" not "Newari".👍
Which rai language?
Kirawa is a new word just like raiba and Raima...though they have meaning
@@Tobiraaaama "Rai" is only title given by Shah dynasty which means "tax officer " (jimmwal) for landlords , which can be also found in many South Asian countries. Just like "Rana" " pandey " , "katuwal" etc was even just a title & I can give you all these titles meaning .🎉
@@Tobiraaaama we have 32 languages in Rai , 28 clans and 32 kings , first king was "Yalambar " which presently Kathmandu city name is still call as "Yala nagarpalika " ,bhaktapur as "khopring", kirati dynasty ruled 1500 years in Nepal , ask your any Kirati friends they will describe you the meaning of "Kirawa" which was given by bantawa Rai , Bahing , khaling , chamling rai and so on ..& the meaning will be TIGER 🐅.
how to write किरात in english alphabet, kirat or kirant?
@@Tangsang_1 its "Kirat" but you can find by genuine Indian writers among which is "Kiratas in Ancient India" By S Mukharjee .
We want the next episode
Sanjay stared first but you are going to dominant Nepalese podcast industry great work
We want Dr. Keshab man Shakya so badly in this studio
Hehe 😅😅😅
Yes 👍, I want Dr. Keshab Man
Hats up Susan bro ..... Wanna see the living legend a long ago.....
The Rai Limbus' Pragmatic Betrayal: The Origins of the Gurkha Soldiers
The Rai Limbus, rather than the Lepchas, Bhutias, Chettris, Brahmins, Newars, or Tamangs, became the renowned Gurkha soldiers serving in the British Army. The key to understanding this lies in the Limbus' opportunistic betrayal of both Nepal and Sikkim, which allowed them to curry favor with the British invaders.
In the early 19th century, the newly unified Nepalese kingdom under the Gorkha rulers began expanding its territory, including the conquest of the neighboring kingdom of Sikkim. This brought Nepal into conflict with the British East India Company, which controlled much of northern and eastern India. When Nepal's incursions into British-influenced areas escalated, the Company launched an invasion of Nepal in 1814.
During the ensuing Anglo-Nepalese War, the British forces encountered fierce resistance from the skilled and determined Gorkha soldiers of Nepal. However, the Rai Limbus, a minority ethnic group in Sikkim, saw an opportunity to betray both their Sikkimese Lepcha and Bhutia countrymen as well as their fellow Gorkhali in Nepal.
Rather than fighting alongside their Sikkimese or Nepalese neighbors, the Rai Limbus actively assisted the British in their campaign to subjugate the Sikkimese kingdom. They helped the British make Sikkim a British protectorate and forced the kingdom to allow British trade with Tibet. The Limbus also aided the British in annexing the strategically important region of Darjeeling, where the indigenous Lepcha and Bhutia peoples were subsequently treated as second-class citizens.
In doing so, the Limbus betrayed not only their Sikkimese neighbors, but also the Gorkhas of Nepal who had previously granted them autonomy and Kipat land rights. The Limbus were opportunists, willing to side with the British invaders against both the Gorkhas and the Sikkimese in order to curry favor and advance their own interests.
Furthermore, the British likely viewed the Limbus as more malleable and "primitive" compared to the more advanced Lepchas, Bhutias, Newars and Tamangs. This perception may have further justified the British's use of the Limbus against the other ethnic groups in the region. The Limbus' lack of strong historical ties to either Nepal or Sikkim also made them more willing to serve as British proxies.
In contrast, the Newars and Khas peoples, who had deep roots in Nepal and shared cultural and religious ties with the Gorkha kingdom, would have been far less likely to betray their fellow Hindus and Nepali brethren. Their refusal to collaborate with the British invaders likely cost them the opportunity to become Gurkha soldiers.
Until 1914, the British had primarily recruited Gurungs and Magars into the Gurkha regiments. However, after witnessing the Limbus' willingness to betray both Nepal and Sikkim, the British came to see them as more reliable and malleable proxies that could be used against the other ethnic groups in the region. This is why the Rai Limbus, and not the Lepchas, Bhutias, Chettris, Brahmins, Newars or Tamangs, became the predominant recruits for the Gurkha forces.
Me bahun ho ra yo kirati vanni haru lai Nepal ko history bata nai metauna parx. Pahila dekhi nai yini haru ko hepai kutai lae garda yini haru jasta sungur budhi lai Nepal ma christian banai yini haru ko sabhyata culture history sadha lai metauna parx. Nepal khas jati ko ho. Jo sukai awos aru lae j sukai khokeh pani abo sarkar chalauni hami xau bujhlas. Dherai kirati vandai furuk furuk garna pardaina. Raja hatauni hami nai hou. Yo kura bujh ki timaru jasta sojo lata budhi vayeka janajati lai hami chhetri bahun lae fanfani gumairako xau. Thax yini harlae tara k garxas ? Pachayera bas haadigokteh haru. Ta haru ko history lai manipulate gari sada lai mitaidinxau. Jai khas aryan.
@@KrishnaDahal555 yo bot ho bahun haina, yeslai ignore garnu sabai jaana
@@SauravSir-mt8gcbot ta ho kukur lae ghui pachdena sabailai thax
@@SauravSir-mt8gcbibhinna naam maa Nepali bich ghrina failaune haru social media maa nikkai dekhinchhan! Ko baata sanchaalit chhan yini haru?
Jagman Grg 🙏💯
dai my last demanding please invite Dr. keshab man sakya with Authi please clearnce about kirati history. many aryan people comment nonsense comment
Ahuti is also from Aryan race
Hehe 🤣🤣🤣
Lol do you have proof😂
😂😂😂😂🤣
Why the Indigenous Status of Limbus Should Be RevokedThe question of indigenous status in Nepal is a contentious issue shaped by historical, cultural, and political factors. The Limbus, a community claiming indigenous status, lack substantial historical and archaeological evidence to support this designation. This essay argues that the indigenous status of Limbus should be reconsidered due to their migratory history from Sichuan to Tibet and later to Nepal, lack of historical artifacts, and manipulation of documents with colonial assistance.Historical and Archaeological VoidUnlike other indigenous groups in Nepal, such as the Lepcha, Bhutia, and Newar, who possess rich historical records, architectural landmarks, and cultural artifacts dating back centuries, the Limbus lack tangible evidence of ancient settlements, palaces, temples, or significant archaeological finds that would substantiate their claim as indigenous to the region. The absence of such evidence raises doubts about their historical ties to the land compared to other established indigenous communities.Migration PatternsHistorical records indicate that the Limbus migrated from Sichuan, China, to Tibet in the 13th century, and subsequently moved to Nepal in the late 16th century. These migrations, marked by geopolitical shifts and cultural exchanges, highlight their origins outside the current borders of Nepal. Unlike indigenous groups with deep-rooted ancestral ties to the region, the Limbus' migratory history suggests a more recent arrival, challenging their claim to indigenous status based on continuous presence and cultural continuity.Colonial Influence and Fabrication of DocumentsDuring the colonial era, particularly under British rule, the Limbus reportedly fabricated documents to bolster their indigenous claims. This manipulation, facilitated by colonial authorities, enabled them to assert a historical narrative and gain recognition as indigenous in certain administrative contexts. Such historical revisionism and document forgery undermine the integrity of their indigenous status claim, especially when compared to the rigorous criteria and historical authenticity required for indigenous recognition in other regions.Contemporary Status in SikkimIn neighboring Sikkim, the Limbus have lost their tribal status, indicating a recognition shift that reflects deeper scrutiny of their indigenous claims. This precedent underscores the inconsistencies and challenges associated with defining indigenous identity solely based on self-proclaimed historical narratives and manipulated documentation.
it would be further helpful for us to know more about Machhendranath and Gorakhnath story
सुसान्त सर हजुरले राजनीतिक विश्लेषक "साैरभ" वावु सत्याल लाई पनि ल्याउनुपर्याे ।
Daju arko episode pani chiyo dr.saap sanga ko Please.
I learn to rethink on other's thinking
Everyone thank me , i was the one who recommended this guest. Thank you for acknowledging and accepting my proposal.
My bad it was requested way back.
Sorry but he has been on our list for the past 2 years, ever since the Tejeshwar Babu Gong episode. And there have been over 10-12 requests asking to bring him on the podcast. There are many other guests we have been reaching out for over a year, it just takes time to make these happen.
Thank you for being one of the people requesting him but it would be unfair to not acknowledge everybody.
@@prabhuewai9905if Dr. Gurung had said what you liked, everything would've been fine for you
@@prabhuewai9905Exactly he is puran guru pandit not an athropologist
@@prabhuewai9905 he is a legit historian. he has a phd on history with thesis on gurung personalities during unification campaign
@@Sushant_PradhanI am one of them…thank you brother
Finally dr jogman guru baa❤❤❤❤
The Rai Limbus' Pragmatic Betrayal: The Origins of the Gurkha Soldiers
The Rai Limbus, rather than the Lepchas, Bhutias, Chettris, Brahmins, Newars, or Tamangs, became the renowned Gurkha soldiers serving in the British Army. The key to understanding this lies in the Limbus' opportunistic betrayal of both Nepal and Sikkim, which allowed them to curry favor with the British invaders.
In the early 19th century, the newly unified Nepalese kingdom under the Gorkha rulers began expanding its territory, including the conquest of the neighboring kingdom of Sikkim. This brought Nepal into conflict with the British East India Company, which controlled much of northern and eastern India. When Nepal's incursions into British-influenced areas escalated, the Company launched an invasion of Nepal in 1814.
During the ensuing Anglo-Nepalese War, the British forces encountered fierce resistance from the skilled and determined Gorkha soldiers of Nepal. However, the Rai Limbus, a minority ethnic group in Sikkim, saw an opportunity to betray both their Sikkimese Lepcha and Bhutia countrymen as well as their fellow Gorkhali in Nepal.
Rather than fighting alongside their Sikkimese or Nepalese neighbors, the Rai Limbus actively assisted the British in their campaign to subjugate the Sikkimese kingdom. They helped the British make Sikkim a British protectorate and forced the kingdom to allow British trade with Tibet. The Limbus also aided the British in annexing the strategically important region of Darjeeling, where the indigenous Lepcha and Bhutia peoples were subsequently treated as second-class citizens.
In doing so, the Limbus betrayed not only their Sikkimese neighbors, but also the Gorkhas of Nepal who had previously granted them autonomy and Kipat land rights. The Limbus were opportunists, willing to side with the British invaders against both the Gorkhas and the Sikkimese in order to curry favor and advance their own interests.
Furthermore, the British likely viewed the Limbus as more malleable and "primitive" compared to the more advanced Lepchas, Bhutias, Newars and Tamangs. This perception may have further justified the British's use of the Limbus against the other ethnic groups in the region. The Limbus' lack of strong historical ties to either Nepal or Sikkim also made them more willing to serve as British proxies.
In contrast, the Newars and Khas peoples, who had deep roots in Nepal and shared cultural and religious ties with the Gorkha kingdom, would have been far less likely to betray their fellow Hindus and Nepali brethren. Their refusal to collaborate with the British invaders likely cost them the opportunity to become Gurkha soldiers.
Until 1914, the British had primarily recruited Gurungs and Magars into the Gurkha regiments. However, after witnessing the Limbus' willingness to betray both Nepal and Sikkim, the British came to see them as more reliable and malleable proxies that could be used against the other ethnic groups in the region. This is why the Rai Limbus, and not the Lepchas, Bhutias, Chettris, Brahmins, Newars or Tamangs, became the predominant recruits for the Gurkha forces.
@@pratikking2272Thanks for the good information
Me bahun ho ra yo kirati vanni haru lai Nepal ko history bata nai metauna parx. Pahila dekhi nai yini haru ko hepai kutai lae garda yini haru jasta sungur budhi lai Nepal ma christian banai yini haru ko sabhyata culture history sadha lai metauna parx. Nepal khas jati ko ho. Jo sukai awos aru lae j sukai khokeh pani abo sarkar chalauni hami xau bujhlas. Dherai kirati vandai furuk furuk garna pardaina. Raja hatauni hami nai hou. Yo kura bujh ki timaru jasta sojo lata budhi vayeka janajati lai hami chhetri bahun lae fanfani gumairako xau. Thax yini harlae tara k garxas ? Pachayera bas haadigokteh haru. Ta haru ko history lai manipulate gari sada lai mitaidinxau. Jai khas aryan.
@@KrishnaDahal555 yeti galat kura nagara bro, ma pani bahun ho r jaha pani bahun harko biruddha propaganda failauxan tyaha ma bolxu tara nepal sabai nepali ko ho, newar magar gurung sabai hamrai manxey hun akhir,
😮😮@@pratikking2272
❤❤
Hi, Please invite Mr Micheal Hutt. I would love to listen his nepali literatures review❤
is he gurung ?? omg same tone like newar He has a deep knowledge about our ancient times history and all dynasty myrits and How to accept any change gracefully 😮😮❤❤❤
Gurung haru pachim tira yesarinoi bolxa purba Ko gurung aarkoi gari bolxa
राजा ल्याउ देश बचाउ 🇳🇵❤️🕉️
like pabitra uncle said for addressing Newari language as NEPAL BHASA, There is also a word for addressing NEWAR or NEWARS which is said as NEWA. I saw the title and wanted to share something about this hehe,
Sushant Bro, can you please 🙏 invite political analyst and writer Saurav on your next show ....???
खास जातिको इतिहास बारे detail पोडकास्ट गर्दिए जाओस् भन्ने अनुरोध गर्दछु।
Dear Sushant please invite Bharat Dahal and P Kharel. They are gem.
Dr Keshav man shaKya Lai invite garnu paryo Sushant dai plz ❤
We Bodo-kachari people from Assam (Meche) we also consider us as Kirat people
@@lesmonde4361 our Kirawa,kirati's descendents were from Assam , Meghalaya, which includes Bodo-kachari (meche) , koche , manipuri , Nagas , kukis & in Nepal flat lands(terai) Dhimal, Tharu, rajbanshi,tajpuriya,jirel , surel,chepang. Our "Mundhum" says we got separated all at Koshi River while travelling from Aasam via Chattara (koshi) way to East mountains in search of shelter, food and clothes. Then some brothers decided to stay at plain areas of Eastern Nepal all the way from Assam and North East India . 👍
Why the Indigenous Status of Limbus Should Be RevokedThe question of indigenous status in Nepal is a contentious issue shaped by historical, cultural, and political factors. The Limbus, a community claiming indigenous status, lack substantial historical and archaeological evidence to support this designation. This essay argues that the indigenous status of Limbus should be reconsidered due to their migratory history from Sichuan to Tibet and later to Nepal, lack of historical artifacts, and manipulation of documents with colonial assistance.Historical and Archaeological VoidUnlike other indigenous groups in Nepal, such as the Lepcha, Bhutia, and Newar, who possess rich historical records, architectural landmarks, and cultural artifacts dating back centuries, the Limbus lack tangible evidence of ancient settlements, palaces, temples, or significant archaeological finds that would substantiate their claim as indigenous to the region. The absence of such evidence raises doubts about their historical ties to the land compared to other established indigenous communities.Migration PatternsHistorical records indicate that the Limbus migrated from Sichuan, China, to Tibet in the 13th century, and subsequently moved to Nepal in the late 16th century. These migrations, marked by geopolitical shifts and cultural exchanges, highlight their origins outside the current borders of Nepal. Unlike indigenous groups with deep-rooted ancestral ties to the region, the Limbus' migratory history suggests a more recent arrival, challenging their claim to indigenous status based on continuous presence and cultural continuity.Colonial Influence and Fabrication of DocumentsDuring the colonial era, particularly under British rule, the Limbus reportedly fabricated documents to bolster their indigenous claims. This manipulation, facilitated by colonial authorities, enabled them to assert a historical narrative and gain recognition as indigenous in certain administrative contexts. Such historical revisionism and document forgery undermine the integrity of their indigenous status claim, especially when compared to the rigorous criteria and historical authenticity required for indigenous recognition in other regions.Contemporary Status in SikkimIn neighboring Sikkim, the Limbus have lost their tribal status, indicating a recognition shift that reflects deeper scrutiny of their indigenous claims. This precedent underscores the inconsistencies and challenges associated with defining indigenous identity solely based on self-proclaimed historical narratives and manipulated documentation.
All the tribes living in himalayan especially eastern himalayas were called kiratis by bhramins.......
This is not even 10% of his knowledge….Dr Gurung knows so much about history khas, thakuri, kirat , Nepal west civilization nd so many….I can’t even explain….he is getting old so please invite him again nd again…his interview would be immense source of knowledge for future Nepali generation…..
🙏
Want podcast on vedas and geeta by jagaman gurung sir
Bro tamang history podcast ma kahile hernu painxa
Faking the Kirat Identity
A Closer Look at Historical Manipulations
In recent years, the narrative surrounding the Kirat identity has come under intense scrutiny. Traditionally celebrated as a unifying force among the ethnic groups of Eastern Nepal, the Kirat identity-chiefly associated with the Limbus and Rais-has been revealed to be a historical fabrication. This manipulation was not only a bid for political power but also a campaign of ethnic antagonism against the indigenous Lepcha and Bhutia communities.
The Roots of the Kirat Identity
The term "Kirat" has been strategically adopted by certain groups to forge a collective identity. However, a detailed examination of historical and linguistic evidence challenges this constructed narrative. Before the intervention of scholars like Iman Singh Chemjong, the Limbus, Rais, and Yakkhas did not identify collectively as Kirats. The term was first popularized by Rana Bahadur Shah and later adopted by Prithvi Narayan Shah, who referred to the Limbus as descendants of Yehang, not Kirats. This indicates that the Kirat identity was a political construct, lacking genuine historical roots.
Lack of Archaeological Evidence
One of the most compelling arguments against the Kirat identity of the Limbus and Rais is the absence of archaeological evidence. Historical narratives promoted by the Kirat movement claim that these groups are ancient inhabitants of Eastern Nepal. However, unlike the well-documented presence of the Sen Thakuri dynasty and the Bhutia Chogyals-evidenced by numerous forts, palaces, and inscriptions such as those at Makawanpur Gadi, Udayapur Forts, and Bijaypur Durbar-there are no corresponding sites that can be attributed to Limbu or Rai rule.
No inscriptions, palaces, or forts bear witness to a long-term Limbu or Rai presence or governance in Eastern Nepal. This stark absence of material evidence contrasts with the rich archaeological heritage left by other ruling dynasties, underscoring the fabricated nature of the Kirat identity claims.
Genetic and Migration Evidence
Genetic studies have further debunked the Kirat narrative. Research indicates that the Limbus and Rais possess a high proportion of Mongolian DNA, distinguishing them from other Tibeto-Burman ethnic groups in South Asia. This genetic evidence suggests that these communities migrated from the Sichuan province in China to northern Tibet during the Mongol conquests and later settled in Eastern Nepal in the 17th century. This migration narrative contradicts the Kirat movement's assertion of an ancient and indigenous lineage in Eastern Nepal.
Political Manipulation and Ethnic Tensions
The Kirat identity was not merely a historical inaccuracy; it was a tool for political manipulation. Iman Singh Chemjong's efforts to foster a unified Kirat identity were driven by a desire to incite resistance and revolt against the Bhutia-dominated Kingdom of Sikkim. This movement was rooted in ethnic animosity and aimed at undermining the Bhutia community's historical and political significance in the region.
The rebranding of the Yakthung Mundhum to Kirat Mundhum was a deliberate attempt to erase the Bhutia community's contributions and presence. By promoting a false narrative of historical dominance, the Kirat movement sought to marginalize the Bhutias and assert an unsubstantiated claim to the region's heritage.
The Impact on Lepcha and Bhutia Communities
The Kirat movement’s divisive tactics extended beyond historical revisionism. By positioning the Limbus and Rais as the rightful heirs of the region, the movement marginalized the Lepcha and Bhutia communities, undermining their historical significance and contributions. This sowed seeds of discord and ethnic tension, fracturing what was once a more cohesive cultural tapestry in Eastern Nepal.
wrong
As a member of the Limbu community and part of the Kirat identity, I feel it is important to address some of the claims made regarding our history and heritage.
Historical and Cultural Significance
The Kirat identity is deeply rooted in the cultural and historical fabric of the Limbu, Rai, Yakkha, and other related communities in Eastern Nepal. Ancient texts,
such as the Mahabharata and various Puranas, mention the Kirat people, indicating our long-standing presence in the region.
Scholarly Contributions
Scholars like Iman Singh Chemjong have played a crucial role in documenting and preserving the history, language, and culture of the Kirat people. Their work is
not merely political but also a vital effort to protect and promote our cultural identity.
Archaeological Evidence
The absence of large-scale architectural remains attributed to the Limbu and Rai does not negate our historical presence. Many indigenous communities, including ours,
have traditionally lived in harmony with nature, leaving fewer monumental structures but rich cultural landscapes. Oral histories, cultural practices,
and smaller archaeological finds are also significant evidence of our historical presence.
Brahmin Migration and Cultural Impact
It is well-documented that the Brahmins arrived in Eastern Nepal later than the indigenous Kirat communities. Historically, their arrival has been associated with
attempts to impose their culture and traditions, often at the expense of local customs and practices. This has included efforts to assimilate or erase the unique
cultural and religious practices of the Kirat people. Despite these pressures, the Kirat identity has persisted, a testament to the resilience and strength of our
cultural heritage.
Political and Ethnic Context
The Kirat identity is not a mere historical fabrication but an essential aspect of our cultural heritage. Efforts to unify the Kirat identity were aimed at fostering
solidarity among marginalized communities, not at erasing the contributions of others. Historical narratives must be inclusive, recognizing the contributions and
presence of all groups in the region.
Conclusion
The Kirat identity holds profound significance for the Limbu, Rai, and other Kirat communities. Our cultural heritage, documented by scholars and evidenced
through our traditions, is a testament to our enduring presence in Eastern Nepal. It is crucial to respect and acknowledge the rich and diverse history of all
ethnic groups in the region.
I feel bore listening podcast. But this man is jewel. I am shocked how come you know him. He is out of league for modern people unless we are keen in those topics. Good job.
He is the one real nepali🙏🙏🙏🙏
shant ek choti George Van Drim lai invite garna paryo. he can connect the missing links here. he is linguistics expert and a scientist.
यो बूढो आज २१ साै सताब्दी हुदासम्म एकीकरण पछी बिदेसी मानव रुपी अदृश्य अँगूली माला नरबीरसैता हरु प्राचीन सनातन देखीनै बुद्ध सभ्यताको बुधिजम कींडम विशाल धर्ती भित्र हीरीयो घाँस भित्र पस्दै दरबार पस्ने सफ्ल भएपछी दरबार भित्र राजगुरु बन्न सफ्ल भएका प्रथम लेन्दुपे बन्न सफ्ल भएर विशाल बुध्द धर्ती दुइतिहाई खाना सफ्ल भएको प्रथम लेन्दुपे हरुले राष्ट्रघाती सन्धि गर्दै जहानिया राणा शासन को जन्म गराउदै जहानिया राणा शासन राष्ट्रघाती सन्धि संगै पराधिन अँगुली माला नरबीरसैतान लेन्दुपे सभ्यताको बिज्ञान बिनाको रंगभेद र सतीजानु पर्ने नरबलि दीने काटो खाने मानव लाई अमानव बनाउने पसुपती क्षेत्र बुध्द बिहार कब्जा गर्दै बिदेसी जंगलि हरु भाडमा ल्याएर ती जंगलि भोगीजोगी बाबा जी नामक ढोङ्गि पाख्णडी हरुका सर्बङ्ग नाङ्गै लिङ्गमा बिसाल बुध्द धर्तीका जनता ले भेटी राख्दै ती पाख्णडी ढोङ्गी हरुका सर्बङ्ग नाङ्गै लिङ्गमा ढोकाउदै अमानव बनाउदै बिज्ञान बिना को लेन्दुपे सभ्यताको धर्म शिक्षा दिक्षाका कुसासन संस्कार बाट लेक्चर दीदै ?
Bro do u understand what is anthropology?????........bujhera lekhne garam yrr........j ma Pani afai ramro afai khatra vanne sochnu vayena ni
@@RATH678jagman is neither anthropologist nor historian.
He is a puran guru, pandit
Panditai banna khoje ho tyeskai abhyas garirachh mula@@prabhuewai9905
सिद्धि भनेको के हो थाहा नहुने कसरी कुनपती?
jai kirat.
Poadcast you didn't knew you needed