Checking is NOT caused by sweat or play. You can read everywhere that it is simply a temperature issue, not a case issue. Of course, if the case somehow collects moisture. (again, we're talking about an improperly stored guitar). It's expansion of the wood that "checks" or cracks the lacquer shell as almost all experts agree. I certainly respect your case theory although I disagree and I disagree due to having a lacquer guitar stored for 23 years in a case. Case or not, if improperly stored, it absolutely could prematurely check.
I think temperature and humidity are the most likely reasons for the checking with the nitro finish. I do wonder if some of the adhesive in new cases I have had that give off a strong odor could have an effect on the sensitive nitro finishes. I keep any new guitar or case I get I get open to the air and it takes a while (sometimes a couple of weeks) for the new chemical smell to dissipate.
my les paul stores in its case for 31 years now ... no finish issues..It has been gigged and used for recording plenty of those years .but no checking or fogging... so to speak
The nitrocellulose finish in most Gibsons and other guitars is the culprit. When it comes in contact with rubber or vinyl-based materials it starts eating into the guitars' finish leaving marks and fades- some kind of chemical reaction. It happened to 2 of my LPs' headstocks when I unknowingly left my tuners attached to them. I store my guitars in cases but also pull them out and leave in stands for weeks at a time and never had damage issues when putting them away because they are already acclimated to the humidity in my area. Tuning is also not much of an issue due to wood shrinkage and expansion.
I have to admit that due to a slight scare on this very night, and after a fairly high-pitched "Yelp" out of my mouth, I found myself on this cold Winters' night, combing the internet for reasons why I had just discovered with shock and horror, some very fresh and but thankfully faint crack lines on the front and back of my 2016 Gibson les paul traditional's lacquer. Its a beautiful shiny desert burst. Why have these cracks/checks/lines appeared? Is it my fault? is it Gibson's fault? Yes the guitar is a 2016 and it is now November 2019 but these cracks and lines were not there at least a month ago. Answer.........My fault!! change of atmosphere temperatures and Humidity all play a part and I have been leaving my guitars on a great big 'show off' multi-stand, out of there cases and in a very cool room. Some information here for the gentleman who posted this video....basically the few initial cracks and lines present on my guitar are in and around the volume and tone pots, which is an area of the body that DOES NOT come into contact with any case material or inner-lining. If you go on to any video where they demonstrate how to purposely relic and crack a guitars lacquer, you will see many guitars being placed into a fridge, back into a warm room, and this process is repeated. THIS IS WHY THE LACQUER IS CRACKING!! With temperature fluctuation, wood will expand and shrink again, constantly moving, but lacquer cannot move with the wood so cracks appear. And my guitar which has being going from a cold storage room to a warm playing room is no different. Gibson actually warn about this on their maintenance and care instructions.
It’s the constant changes in humidity that causes this, fret sprout, and many other issues. The truth is you should keep your guitars in a room that is humidity controlled. It’s really cheap to buy a humidifier with a hygrometer that works the way a thermostat would but keeping the humidity steady. That being said, it’s still a pain in the ass to do that.
I left a '78 P-bass in a molded Fender case for about five years and took it out a couple years ago. The bass was stuck to the cloth lining of the case, and when I finally got it free, the finish was sticky and gummy in places and badly checked in other areas. One time, the empty case had spent a gig accidentally sitting up against an electric baseboard heater, and got warped as a result, but then was continuously used as the only case for the bass, including that period of non-use. I found a used Ibanez case that is similar to the old traditional Fender-style case and I don't use the molded one any more. The molded one emits a strong chemical smell, a sort of pungent, sour reek. I wasn't sure what exactly to do with the bass, however. It would stick to your clothing if you left it in your lap for a few minutes, and even months of being placed on a stand in the home didn't help matters. I eventually used a can of lacquer thinner and a rag to wipe it down. I went over it quite a lot over a period of several months, giving it some periods of "drying" time in the open air occasionally to see if it was helping. Mostly the softer parts of the finish rubbed off the most easily, and some parts of the lacquer didn't come off at all. Some of the most badly checked areas seemed the least affected by the thinner, surprisingly. I could tell in many areas that I was down to the sanding sealer, which seemed rock-hard and totally unaffected by the thinner, so I considered those areas to be "done", and I kept working at the areas where the softened lacquer persisted. This went on for many months, until I was pretty sure that the thinner had done all it could. Some areas still seem to be a bit soft, I can dent the lacquer with my thumbnail, but after a point, the thinner wasn't doing any more in those places. It's been a few seasons since I tried to do any more to this bass.. It had already been through hell for some decades prior to any of these finish issues arising, and it was only after I'd left it in the (admittedly compromised) case all those years that the finish got all soft & sticky. I don't leave it in the newer case for more than a week, and I often just leave it out on a stand. It isn't anywhere as sticky as it once was. To be honest, the bass looks as if it just stepped out of the past, and people walk up and literally fawn over the aged appearance. I'd like to just leave it appearing the way it does, if possible, but I'm not thrilled that some areas of bare wood can be exposed to the elements, or that other areas don't seem fully cured. This is my player, and I don't require a fancy new finish. I actually like that the thing looks heavily worn, but I want to learn what I might do to overspray it, if that can be done without the remaining areas of questionable stability being a problem, possibly by interacting unfavorably with a fresh coat of lacquer. Can anything make the remaining softened lacquer hard again? Has anything like this ever happened to anyone else? Any ideas?
Merv Cargill, who has worked on major artist's guitars, including Jimmy Page, argues that guitars should not be stored in their cases because they sweat. Also the wood dries out / ages better when kept out of the case. The case is really only there to protect the guitar when it is being moved from place to place, e.g. from your home / studio to the gig.
I don't own a Gibson (Epiphone, Martin, Hagstrom, Yamaha, Fender, Ibanez) but I've not ever witnessed or heard of a scenario such as this. Hot/cold extremes and plain old age are the only culprits I'm aware of except maybe a rare green wood issue?.... My Martin and Hagstrom cases still emit a ton of that "new car smell" like crazy but no problems. I even went to examine them all as they have not been out of their cases for several months. I don't know, you got me with this one. _BUT_, your unfortunate circumstance created an upside on my end as it gave me a slight proverbial kick in the butt to break out the axes again. Wow, my amps are dusty........
I think the wood is drying out from the inside out in that area because it can't breath or get humidity. Though the case is not air tight, we don't know the environment that guitar was stored to get that bad. Like an Acoustic, any Hollow and Semi-Hollow body should be humidified in the case. I have 2 semi and 2 hollow bodies and they all have case humidifiers. They are years old, (one is 34 yrs old) I don't have that problem or do I have a tuning problem. They stay in basic tune for 2 weeks of non playing. How I humidify my cases? Simple. Go to CVS or Rite Aid. Buy a travel soap bar holder, drill 15-20 holes on one side. Get two sponges, cut to size and run them under water. Squeeze them out, put them in the soap holders, close it, find a spot in the case with holes facing out and you are good for at least a month of humidification. Cheap and does the job. I've been doing this for years. Specially during the winter.
i find it much more likely that the back piece was "green" or otherwise not ready for production. if this were an issue with contact with the case i would expect to see it in other places as you typically see with wet case problems. gibson has had issues procuring quality wood stock for a while now.
Cheking comes from temperature change.Where the guitar has checked it has been in a sleeping bag. When the guitar is exposed to extreme temp changes, it will check where the temp difference is the most extreme. If the guitar is not touching the case it is closer to the outside temp. Its like crawling out of a down filled sleeping bag into sub zero temps.Its warmer where its touching, and more likely to freak out when it gets cold. The parts that are already cold are not going to change as much. Thats how you relic a nitro finish. You get it hot, then you get it cold.
Some customer service people at Gibson have admitted that letting your guitar live outside the case in temp and humidity controlled areas, is better than being inside the case. I've been in contact with several about hooks and acceptable fabric and such and they've said their own Gibson guitars don't stay in the case and they would not keep them in there for extended periods.
Is the correct answer. Personally, I have 48 guitars and basses that all get played and unless I'm travelling with one or two, they don't go in the case. I don't mind lacquer checking, the print on the knobs fading or any of that as for me, they're not meant to stay forever in collector/museum grade condition - they're glorious tools for making glorious music, so unless something interferes with the playing experience, the sound, the electronics or the general effectiveness of the guitar, I'm not that bothered. Nitro finishes (as all my guitars are vintage, nothing younger than 30 years old, most are nitrocellulose finishes) will age anyway - they will checker because of humidity, wear, oxidisation and the constituent parts of the lacquer aging and drying out. As many have said though, I'd rather have my well checkered 1958 Les Paul than a modern Gibson - even from the 'elite' range or the custom shop - the QC ain't what it was. Gibson are the worst culprits, but even other old big names like Fender and Rickenbacker are not quite what they were. Of course, in a case or not, quite often the various woods in a guitar will shrink over time, not by much more than microns maybe, but enough (and with different woods at different rates even on the same guitar) to eventually crack, ripple, check or whatever the finish.
I agree with you but it's kind of a catch 22. I feel like if I leave my guitars out all the time on stands, eventually they're going to get knocked over somehow. If you leave them in the case, that fabric can have a tendency to wear on the guitar. So it's a catch-22.
The other thing is, it's really easy to obsess over all of this. I bought several pretty nice guitars and I'm about as obsessive about them as anybody. But it's like no matter what you do, there is going to be a certain amount of wear and tear. I worry about taking my guitars in and out of their cases every day, if that's not going to create some kind of wear problem where the fabric touches. But then again, look at it from this philosophy. Why pay all that money for a custom antique guitar that looks all beat up and beat to s***. If you bought a quality guitar and hang on to it long enough, eventually someone's going to want to buy it. You might not get all the money you paid or you might get a great deal more depending. I've always purchased quality guitars so I hope they hold their value no matter what happens to them. But each one is like my baby and I want to handle them with the most care possible. But you can't protect against everything. Screw it, if something happens to one of them, I'll figure out a way to buy another one. I worry about scratching my guitars all the time. At the same time, I really want to learn how to play and play well. If I focus really hard on practicing, I'm hoping that the enjoyment I get from playing well outweighs anything that happens to the guitar.
My theory is because Gibson does everything halfass there wasn't enough plasticizers in the paint when they mixed it. To keep it from checking the paint that they use never really dry.
I'm thinking "what you said, but ..." I'd think that it's a combination of being in that case, but in a location where the humidity goes from 22% in winter to 69% in summer(like here in Massachussettes). The concentrated abrasion of those contact zones would entice movement in the finish relative to the wood underneath already stress by large swings in humidity when heating season starts/ends. That's where your finish hazing and cracking might get induced.
I personally keep all of my guitars on my guitar stands. I have years never stored my guitars in their case. Just a precaution that I have done. Leaving my guitars just in their stands has been ok for me for years. I don't trust leaving my guitars in the case for extended periods of time. Never had lacquer issues.
It's the material, used in the cases, as that's were it is touching, put in the case a white cotton bed sheet then you won't have any further marks ( check the humidity)
Humidity and temperature is the issue here 100% I’ve got guitars always in a case after use and never had any problems. But I check my humidity in the case and room every day.
Ive got 2 Gibson Custom Shops and I store them in their cases and I have no issue with the finish checking. Seems like you may be treating it a little harshly.
So you think its dampness or moisture in the case felt caused by fluctuating extremes in temperature that causes the checking and not just the case material. You may well be right, I haven't experienced those conditions and all my guitars are good as new, though not new. So I would deduce that kept in the case when not being played in the right conditions is fine.
When I bought my 1995 Taylor 855 I was instructed to keep it in the case with a humidifier, or in a humidity controlled environment when not playing it. And except when I play it for over 20 years now, it's normally in the case. The finish looks as good today (I just double checked it) as it did when I bought it. My thought is closer to, in combination to what you believe logically, also with the finished used by the manufacture. Not knowing the environment you store your guitar in IE extreme heat or 100% humidity, which I doubt, you'd have to take the quality of the finish into the equation.
I mean it's so easy to take care of a Star Wars or GI Joe collection (or whatever you collect) because in most cases, you don't take it out of the box and you set it on a shelf and just look at it. But with a guitar, you have to handle it, take it out of its case, make sure you don't bump into something with it, play it, and worry about humidity and dryness. My goal is to practice as hard as I can each day and like I said, hopefully the enjoyment I get out of improving my skills will outweigh anything that happens to the guitar.
Gibson QC has sucked for years, plus Nitro is just bad, and is going to check. Lastly, do you keep a case humidifier in your cases? They should have one. i keep my guitar room at 60%, and have experienced no checking, and i keep in cases, the ones that aren't played often, a case humidifier. Also You should have white cotton at all contact points in a case containing a Nitro finished guitar, unless you want the finish to adopt the color of the case lining. Be Well, -trout
If you live in an area of low humidity - like the southwest for instance - and you do not keep your guitar in a case, it will start to crack over time. As for the problem described with the finish. Maybe he is right - with certain finishes and certain cases anyway. I have a guitar that has been kept in a case since 1954 with no such problem.
Theory #1: It could be the adhesive outgassing underneath the cloth/fur/whatever. Theory #2: Get a computer to record the hourly temperature and humidity outside the case. This will verify temperature as a cause of checking. Do you have any other guitars stored in the same room? Theory #3: Gibson/Murphy Lab discovered the secret to checking using a bad lacquer formulation, and they had this secret out years before the recent ultra-expensive ML guitars were released. It wouldn't surprise me if Gibson and Epiphone played around with their paint formulations every year.
You are spot on my friend. Nitro is the devil of a finish and goes like this very quickly. In some ways it's probably better to hang a guitar like this on a stand or whatever. Even then you gotta be careful that it's not going to react with the finish :-( give me a rock hard and shiny poly finish any day, you don't get many cars having problems like this do you? :D nitro, even the new stuff never fully sets hard.
Matthew Preston Have to respectfully disagree. "goes very quickly like this" ? How is it I have a 1992 LP standard in absolute mint condition, played regularly for 23 years and stored in a case when not played? I have high res pics under the name 92standard on Mylesspaul forum if interested. Again, the checking is due to extreme changes in temp...ie, humid to cold quite rapidly causing the wood to expand and contract. The guitar should almost never check if taken care of properly. I have a 2008 LP Special, A 2008 ES339 (identical to the guitar in the vid) and not one guitar has a hint of checking. I'm not sure where you folks that dislike nitro so much come up with comments like "even the new stuff never really fully sets hard". How can you tell and how many guitars have you sampled to conclude that new nitro doesn't "set hard".....Where is this info, as I'd like to read or see for myself.
Nitro is a very unstable finish. I worked with different clear finishes for years in the furniture industry. It is also highly toxic and flammable. It does however give a very high gloss. I'm glad you have been able to protect and maintain the high finish of your guitars because it can react with chemicals used in say the plush lining of a guitar case. It also reacts with some soft rubbers used for guitar stands. Nitro is also a very soft finish, so If you have acidic sweat and don't wipe down the guitar properly after playing it'll have a terrible effect on the finish too.
Matthew Preston Nice respectable reply....THANKS dude! Happy to take in your info as well. Yeah, never seen an issue with a case (not saying it's not possible as was mentioned if moisture somehow made it's way in) but.....I HAVE seen what the rubber in the stands can do. I have an Onstage brand stand that I've had for approx. 10 years and also have never had an issue FWIW. Again, thanks for the info.
I think (people tell me not to) that you well maybe right, that the guitar has 'gone bad' by sitting in it's case. I'd be quite willing to believe that the inside of the case got wet at some point and therefore made this problem. I keep my guitars in their cases and this has not happened to any of mine.
my diamond series with loaded of BNP jaggernaut. 1month and more in my hardcase but no issues for the wood in the paint have a hairline scratches because i always clean it my wrong cloth now I'm using pranela and dunlop cleaner to maintain the wood and the fretboard good.
cheap guitars and cheap cases can do that, and it doesn't matter if it said Gibson on the neck, but I am sure has nothing to do with the fabric absorbing moisture
I used to have a hohner acoustic that did this and it was the case. Easy to see when the finish was sunburst and it grazed the finish. It even left black pigment on it.
Nitro mixed with dye reacting. Not moisture think just the types of material and dye used. Paint reacts alit with nitro cars. This is imo the material not moisture. Fabric with nitro is a chemical bad reaction. Bet its a natetizl that gets stopped using. I eould sant £ back from givson. As tgeir case abd obvious chemical reaction.
Look at all these "experts" in the comments section hahahah. PLEASE , the only way we'll know for sure what's really going on here is if will gelvin gives his opinion. He uses science and doesn't have any brainwashed bias towards guitar myths. An people who doubt will gelvin, wouldn't know where to start when it comes to making high quality guitars! I'll ask will, and I'll be back with the factual answer:)
Checking is NOT caused by sweat or play. You can read everywhere that it is simply a temperature issue, not a case issue. Of course, if the case somehow collects moisture. (again, we're talking about an improperly stored guitar). It's expansion of the wood that "checks" or cracks the lacquer shell as almost all experts agree. I certainly respect your case theory although I disagree and I disagree due to having a lacquer guitar stored for 23 years in a case. Case or not, if improperly stored, it absolutely could prematurely check.
logic, from a dude that prints fender srickers and puts them on his squier lol
I think temperature and humidity are the most likely reasons for the checking with the nitro finish. I do wonder if some of the adhesive in new cases I have had that give off a strong odor could have an effect on the sensitive nitro finishes. I keep any new guitar or case I get I get open to the air and it takes a while (sometimes a couple of weeks) for the new chemical smell to dissipate.
my les paul stores in its case for 31 years now ... no finish issues..It has been gigged and used for recording plenty of those years .but no checking or fogging... so to speak
The nitrocellulose finish in most Gibsons and other guitars is the culprit. When it comes in contact with rubber or vinyl-based materials it starts eating into the guitars' finish leaving marks and fades- some kind of chemical reaction. It happened to 2 of my LPs' headstocks when I unknowingly left my tuners attached to them. I store my guitars in cases but also pull them out and leave in stands for weeks at a time and never had damage issues when putting them away because they are already acclimated to the humidity in my area. Tuning is also not much of an issue due to wood shrinkage and expansion.
I have to admit that due to a slight scare on this very night, and after a fairly high-pitched "Yelp" out of my mouth, I found myself on this cold Winters' night, combing the internet for reasons why I had just discovered with shock and horror, some very fresh and but thankfully faint crack lines on the front and back of my 2016 Gibson les paul traditional's lacquer. Its a beautiful shiny desert burst. Why have these cracks/checks/lines appeared? Is it my fault? is it Gibson's fault? Yes the guitar is a 2016 and it is now November 2019 but these cracks and lines were not there at least a month ago. Answer.........My fault!! change of atmosphere temperatures and Humidity all play a part and I have been leaving my guitars on a great big 'show off' multi-stand, out of there cases and in a very cool room. Some information here for the gentleman who posted this video....basically the few initial cracks and lines present on my guitar are in and around the volume and tone pots, which is an area of the body that DOES NOT come into contact with any case material or inner-lining. If you go on to any video where they demonstrate how to purposely relic and crack a guitars lacquer, you will see many guitars being placed into a fridge, back into a warm room, and this process is repeated. THIS IS WHY THE LACQUER IS CRACKING!! With temperature fluctuation, wood will expand and shrink again, constantly moving, but lacquer cannot move with the wood so cracks appear. And my guitar which has being going from a cold storage room to a warm playing room is no different. Gibson actually warn about this on their maintenance and care instructions.
It’s the constant changes in humidity that causes this, fret sprout, and many other issues. The truth is you should keep your guitars in a room that is humidity controlled. It’s really cheap to buy a humidifier with a hygrometer that works the way a thermostat would but keeping the humidity steady. That being said, it’s still a pain in the ass to do that.
I left a '78 P-bass in a molded Fender case for about five years and took it out a couple years ago. The bass was stuck to the cloth lining of the case, and when I finally got it free, the finish was sticky and gummy in places and badly checked in other areas. One time, the empty case had spent a gig accidentally sitting up against an electric baseboard heater, and got warped as a result, but then was continuously used as the only case for the bass, including that period of non-use. I found a used Ibanez case that is similar to the old traditional Fender-style case and I don't use the molded one any more. The molded one emits a strong chemical smell, a sort of pungent, sour reek.
I wasn't sure what exactly to do with the bass, however. It would stick to your clothing if you left it in your lap for a few minutes, and even months of being placed on a stand in the home didn't help matters. I eventually used a can of lacquer thinner and a rag to wipe it down. I went over it quite a lot over a period of several months, giving it some periods of "drying" time in the open air occasionally to see if it was helping. Mostly the softer parts of the finish rubbed off the most easily, and some parts of the lacquer didn't come off at all. Some of the most badly checked areas seemed the least affected by the thinner, surprisingly. I could tell in many areas that I was down to the sanding sealer, which seemed rock-hard and totally unaffected by the thinner, so I considered those areas to be "done", and I kept working at the areas where the softened lacquer persisted.
This went on for many months, until I was pretty sure that the thinner had done all it could. Some areas still seem to be a bit soft, I can dent the lacquer with my thumbnail, but after a point, the thinner wasn't doing any more in those places. It's been a few seasons since I tried to do any more to this bass.. It had already been through hell for some decades prior to any of these finish issues arising, and it was only after I'd left it in the (admittedly compromised) case all those years that the finish got all soft & sticky. I don't leave it in the newer case for more than a week, and I often just leave it out on a stand. It isn't anywhere as sticky as it once was.
To be honest, the bass looks as if it just stepped out of the past, and people walk up and literally fawn over the aged appearance. I'd like to just leave it appearing the way it does, if possible, but I'm not thrilled that some areas of bare wood can be exposed to the elements, or that other areas don't seem fully cured. This is my player, and I don't require a fancy new finish. I actually like that the thing looks heavily worn, but I want to learn what I might do to overspray it, if that can be done without the remaining areas of questionable stability being a problem, possibly by interacting unfavorably with a fresh coat of lacquer. Can anything make the remaining softened lacquer hard again? Has anything like this ever happened to anyone else? Any ideas?
Merv Cargill, who has worked on major artist's guitars, including Jimmy Page, argues that guitars should not be stored in their cases because they sweat. Also the wood dries out / ages better when kept out of the case. The case is really only there to protect the guitar when it is being moved from place to place, e.g. from your home / studio to the gig.
It's where you store your case. Outside wall concrete floor. It's drawing moisture.
I don't own a Gibson (Epiphone, Martin, Hagstrom, Yamaha, Fender, Ibanez) but I've not ever witnessed or heard of a scenario such as this. Hot/cold extremes and plain old age are the only culprits I'm aware of except maybe a rare green wood issue?.... My Martin and Hagstrom cases still emit a ton of that "new car smell" like crazy but no problems. I even went to examine them all as they have not been out of their cases for several months. I don't know, you got me with this one. _BUT_, your unfortunate circumstance created an upside on my end as it gave me a slight proverbial kick in the butt to break out the axes again. Wow, my amps are dusty........
I think the wood is drying out from the inside out in that area because it can't breath or get humidity. Though the case is not air tight, we don't know the environment that guitar was stored to get that bad. Like an Acoustic, any Hollow and Semi-Hollow body should be humidified in the case. I have 2 semi and 2 hollow bodies and they all have case humidifiers. They are years old, (one is 34 yrs old) I don't have that problem or do I have a tuning problem. They stay in basic tune for 2 weeks of non playing.
How I humidify my cases? Simple. Go to CVS or Rite Aid. Buy a travel soap bar holder, drill 15-20 holes on one side. Get two sponges, cut to size and run them under water. Squeeze them out, put them in the soap holders, close it, find a spot in the case with holes facing out and you are good for at least a month of humidification. Cheap and does the job. I've been doing this for years. Specially during the winter.
i find it much more likely that the back piece was "green" or otherwise not ready for production. if this were an issue with contact with the case i would expect to see it in other places as you typically see with wet case problems. gibson has had issues procuring quality wood stock for a while now.
Cheking comes from temperature change.Where the guitar has checked it has been in a sleeping bag. When the guitar is exposed to extreme temp changes, it will check where the temp difference is the most extreme. If the guitar is not touching the case it is closer to the outside temp. Its like crawling out of a down filled sleeping bag into sub zero temps.Its warmer where its touching, and more likely to freak out when it gets cold. The parts that are already cold are not going to change as much. Thats how you relic a nitro finish. You get it hot, then you get it cold.
Some customer service people at Gibson have admitted that letting your guitar live outside the case in temp and humidity controlled areas, is better than being inside the case. I've been in contact with several about hooks and acceptable fabric and such and they've said their own Gibson guitars don't stay in the case and they would not keep them in there for extended periods.
Is the correct answer. Personally, I have 48 guitars and basses that all get played and unless I'm travelling with one or two, they don't go in the case. I don't mind lacquer checking, the print on the knobs fading or any of that as for me, they're not meant to stay forever in collector/museum grade condition - they're glorious tools for making glorious music, so unless something interferes with the playing experience, the sound, the electronics or the general effectiveness of the guitar, I'm not that bothered.
Nitro finishes (as all my guitars are vintage, nothing younger than 30 years old, most are nitrocellulose finishes) will age anyway - they will checker because of humidity, wear, oxidisation and the constituent parts of the lacquer aging and drying out. As many have said though, I'd rather have my well checkered 1958 Les Paul than a modern Gibson - even from the 'elite' range or the custom shop - the QC ain't what it was. Gibson are the worst culprits, but even other old big names like Fender and Rickenbacker are not quite what they were. Of course, in a case or not, quite often the various woods in a guitar will shrink over time, not by much more than microns maybe, but enough (and with different woods at different rates even on the same guitar) to eventually crack, ripple, check or whatever the finish.
Polyurethane ain't cracking, checking or rippling in a 100 years.
I agree with you but it's kind of a catch 22. I feel like if I leave my guitars out all the time on stands, eventually they're going to get knocked over somehow. If you leave them in the case, that fabric can have a tendency to wear on the guitar. So it's a catch-22.
The other thing is, it's really easy to obsess over all of this. I bought several pretty nice guitars and I'm about as obsessive about them as anybody. But it's like no matter what you do, there is going to be a certain amount of wear and tear. I worry about taking my guitars in and out of their cases every day, if that's not going to create some kind of wear problem where the fabric touches. But then again, look at it from this philosophy. Why pay all that money for a custom antique guitar that looks all beat up and beat to s***. If you bought a quality guitar and hang on to it long enough, eventually someone's going to want to buy it. You might not get all the money you paid or you might get a great deal more depending. I've always purchased quality guitars so I hope they hold their value no matter what happens to them. But each one is like my baby and I want to handle them with the most care possible. But you can't protect against everything. Screw it, if something happens to one of them, I'll figure out a way to buy another one. I worry about scratching my guitars all the time. At the same time, I really want to learn how to play and play well. If I focus really hard on practicing, I'm hoping that the enjoyment I get from playing well outweighs anything that happens to the guitar.
My theory is because Gibson does everything halfass there wasn't enough plasticizers in the paint when they mixed it. To keep it from checking the paint that they use never really dry.
I think if that was the case (no pun intended) we would be hearing a lot more about this occurring
I'm thinking "what you said, but ..." I'd think that it's a combination of being in that case, but in a location where the humidity goes from 22% in winter to 69% in summer(like here in Massachussettes). The concentrated abrasion of those contact zones would entice movement in the finish relative to the wood underneath already stress by large swings in humidity when heating season starts/ends. That's where your finish hazing and cracking might get induced.
I personally keep all of my guitars on my guitar stands. I have years never stored my guitars in their case. Just a precaution that I have done. Leaving my guitars just in their stands has been ok for me for years. I don't trust leaving my guitars in the case for extended periods of time. Never had lacquer issues.
Manufacturers stopped painting cars with lacquer many yrs ago, durability of the finish being the main reason.
It's the material, used in the cases, as that's were it is touching, put in the case a white cotton bed sheet then you won't have any further marks ( check the humidity)
Humidity and temperature is the issue here 100% I’ve got guitars always in a case after use and never had any problems. But I check my humidity in the case and room every day.
Are unnecessary, commas, in the title bad for, it, over time?,,?,,,,?
Ive got 2 Gibson Custom Shops and I store them in their cases and I have no issue with the finish checking. Seems like you may be treating it a little harshly.
Guitars shipped in a hardcase always come with a silica gel pouch. And we have the bad habbit of throwing it away...
Yep I always keep them in mine. It can be refreshed to dry again in the microwave in a Pyrex cup.
Throw a few silica moisture collection bags in there no more checking factories use them during extreme humidity transports
I have always kept those in all of my guitar cases. Whenever I get them from anywhere I throw them in.
Only a good idea if your problem is high humidity. In Canada, I would think low humidity during winter months would be a bigger issue
So you think its dampness or moisture in the case felt caused by fluctuating extremes in temperature that causes the checking and not just the case material. You may well be right, I haven't experienced those conditions and all my guitars are good as new, though not new. So I would deduce that kept in the case when not being played in the right conditions is fine.
Simon Bradbury Absolutely correct....most importantly...."right conditions"...ie, proper temp, stored appropriately and so on.......Never an issue.
When I bought my 1995 Taylor 855 I was instructed to keep it in the case with a humidifier, or in a humidity controlled environment when not playing it. And except when I play it for over 20 years now, it's normally in the case. The finish looks as good today (I just double checked it) as it did when I bought it. My thought is closer to, in combination to what you believe logically, also with the finished used by the manufacture. Not knowing the environment you store your guitar in IE extreme heat or 100% humidity, which I doubt, you'd have to take the quality of the finish into the equation.
Why don't you use a humidifier in your case? Or maybe get a different case and a humidifier.
Agree, but I'm guessing the dye of the fabric.
I mean it's so easy to take care of a Star Wars or GI Joe collection (or whatever you collect) because in most cases, you don't take it out of the box and you set it on a shelf and just look at it. But with a guitar, you have to handle it, take it out of its case, make sure you don't bump into something with it, play it, and worry about humidity and dryness. My goal is to practice as hard as I can each day and like I said, hopefully the enjoyment I get out of improving my skills will outweigh anything that happens to the guitar.
Gibson QC has sucked for years, plus Nitro is just bad, and is going to check. Lastly, do you keep a case humidifier in your cases? They should have one. i keep my guitar room at 60%, and have experienced no checking, and i keep in cases, the ones that aren't played often, a case humidifier. Also You should have white cotton at all contact points in a case containing a Nitro finished guitar, unless you want the finish to adopt the color of the case lining.
Be Well,
-trout
That’s why collectionners keep their guitars in a humidity and dryness controlled cabinet
If you live in an area of low humidity - like the southwest for instance - and you do not keep your guitar in a case, it will start to crack over time. As for the problem described with the finish. Maybe he is right - with certain finishes and certain cases anyway. I have a guitar that has been kept in a case since 1954 with no such problem.
Theory #1: It could be the adhesive outgassing underneath the cloth/fur/whatever. Theory #2: Get a computer to record the hourly temperature and humidity outside the case. This will verify temperature as a cause of checking. Do you have any other guitars stored in the same room? Theory #3: Gibson/Murphy Lab discovered the secret to checking using a bad lacquer formulation, and they had this secret out years before the recent ultra-expensive ML guitars were released. It wouldn't surprise me if Gibson and Epiphone played around with their paint formulations every year.
You are spot on my friend. Nitro is the devil of a finish and goes like this very quickly. In some ways it's probably better to hang a guitar like this on a stand or whatever. Even then you gotta be careful that it's not going to react with the finish :-( give me a rock hard and shiny poly finish any day, you don't get many cars having problems like this do you? :D nitro, even the new stuff never fully sets hard.
Matthew Preston Have to respectfully disagree. "goes very quickly like this" ? How is it I have a 1992 LP standard in absolute mint condition, played regularly for 23 years and stored in a case when not played? I have high res pics under the name 92standard on Mylesspaul forum if interested. Again, the checking is due to extreme changes in temp...ie, humid to cold quite rapidly causing the wood to expand and contract. The guitar should almost never check if taken care of properly. I have a 2008 LP Special, A 2008 ES339 (identical to the guitar in the vid) and not one guitar has a hint of checking. I'm not sure where you folks that dislike nitro so much come up with comments like "even the new stuff never really fully sets hard". How can you tell and how many guitars have you sampled to conclude that new nitro doesn't "set hard".....Where is this info, as I'd like to read or see for myself.
Nitro is a very unstable finish. I worked with different clear finishes for years in the furniture industry. It is also highly toxic and flammable. It does however give a very high gloss. I'm glad you have been able to protect and maintain the high finish of your guitars because it can react with chemicals used in say the plush lining of a guitar case. It also reacts with some soft rubbers used for guitar stands. Nitro is also a very soft finish, so If you have acidic sweat and don't wipe down the guitar properly after playing it'll have a terrible effect on the finish too.
Matthew Preston Nice respectable reply....THANKS dude! Happy to take in your info as well. Yeah, never seen an issue with a case (not saying it's not possible as was mentioned if moisture somehow made it's way in) but.....I HAVE seen what the rubber in the stands can do. I have an Onstage brand stand that I've had for approx. 10 years and also have never had an issue FWIW. Again, thanks for the info.
Application of the finish was defective. There are other guitars some guy finished on the same day that are doing the same thing I bet.
I think (people tell me not to) that you well maybe right, that the guitar has 'gone bad' by sitting in it's case. I'd be quite willing to believe that the inside of the case got wet at some point and therefore made this problem. I keep my guitars in their cases and this has not happened to any of mine.
Silicone in the fabric? Somewhere?
my diamond series with loaded of BNP jaggernaut.
1month and more in my hardcase but no issues for the wood in the paint have a hairline scratches because i always clean it my wrong cloth now I'm using pranela and dunlop cleaner to maintain the wood and the fretboard good.
Good point and creative thinking and not so much logic in the classical sense. Yes I will look at this in some chemistry way.
What are we supposed to be seeing on the back of the guitar?
If you had natural wool cotton natural lining i bet it would be ok. The stuff looks plastic like inside case
cheap guitars and cheap cases can do that, and it doesn't matter if it said Gibson on the neck, but I am sure has nothing to do with the fabric absorbing moisture
Did you use a humidity control device in your case?
1:14 - How much is the guitar touching, again?
A Fuckload
Yo I died when he said that 😂
very anecdotal. I think if you stored it in a different case, you would find similar results...
I don't believe a word of it.
Hey good video! Is there any chance that it is dried out inside..
Beautiful guitar. I hope you play it
That sucks.
That looks like a chibson to me, mehh.
it is, they're not hard to tell but eh quality is quality
It isn't, just take a look at the fret job, and the tune o matic
I used to have a hohner acoustic that did this and it was the case. Easy to see when the finish was sunburst and it grazed the finish. It even left black pigment on it.
I had that guitar and play the fuck out of it
Nitro mixed with dye reacting. Not moisture think just the types of material and dye used. Paint reacts alit with nitro cars. This is imo the material not moisture. Fabric with nitro is a chemical bad reaction. Bet its a natetizl that gets stopped using. I eould sant £ back from givson. As tgeir case abd obvious chemical reaction.
Storing in Case bad? Ask Normans rare guitars.
This is why I got a Satin finish ;)
Классный ковёр
Look at all these "experts" in the comments section hahahah. PLEASE , the only way we'll know for sure what's really going on here is if will gelvin gives his opinion. He uses science and doesn't have any brainwashed bias towards guitar myths. An people who doubt will gelvin, wouldn't know where to start when it comes to making high quality guitars! I'll ask will, and I'll be back with the factual answer:)