Gain Staging Like Skrillex
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- čas přidán 23. 08. 2024
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Wassup Aliens, today we are gain staging in Ableton using what we know from Skrillex's ableton project.
Get AHEE's Magic Ableton Rack's here: gumroad.com/ahee
Watch SKRILLEX's original video: • Skrillex - Mumbai Powe...
Watch my other Dissecting Skrillex's Ableton Project video: • Dissecting Skrillex's ...
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I think it's amazing how Skrillex screenrecording his Ableton projects sets off a wave of tutorials explaining how he does various things.
I mean thats a no brainer
2 Years dedicated to production and I never realized how much this bus limiter trick makes a difference, but thanks to you!
I would have thought gain staging would be in reference to the levels throughout his mix and sound design process. Not the routing.
Yeah this isn't gain staging, this is routing
Yeah I'd like to understand that a bit too, Ahee, if you have a minute. Simply adding these all up is not necessarily the magic. Afterward, what levels do you set your channel, utility gain (though doesn't look like you use that much), gain on each effect, each limiter, etc - so that over the course of the signal routing, you still get a clean and clear signal at the right level at the very end? And maybe a bit on WHY you would turn this up and that down along the way? I would be surprised if the answer was unity gain on everything.... Nice videos BTW, not dissing above, just asking for more more moooore!
It is in reference to his levels, and shows how he groups different elements of the song to different premasters, plus he can add effects and whatever to whole groups of sounds, like drums, sub, melody , rhythm vocals, fx. It is sound design in a way, layering and mixing your sound to fill all the space available, I love mixing and mastering, thanks AHee, for this tutorial bruh! ✌🏽
Agreed.
That's what I expected too. Hmmm misleading title
That’s a whole lot of routing just to make a square wave lol
LOL right
-Create Groups/Tracks of Audio/MIDI tracks according to Instrument/Part
-Group Instrument Groups/Tracks according to composition element (Ex: DROP, Melodic).
-Create Routing Channels, to group Composition Groups according to quality/variety (Ex: Basic, Hype)
-Create 'Chain Group' Routing Channel to combine 'Hype/Basic Routing Channels'
-Group all Chains together (for organization only, don't add effects to master group)
-Create 'Premaster' and send 'Chain Group' and select previously unrouted "body" tracks/groups (Ex: SUB) to it
-Send 'Premaster' to 'Master' along with previously unrouted "top" tracks/groups (Ex: Vocals) to it
so group chain is routed to the pre master and not the master as showed in the video?!
"This is just how skrillex sets up hos chains, i can shwo you how i set up mine in another video"
BRUH
That'd be appreciated.
Subbed.
HURB
I'm gonna have to watch this a couple times to wrap my head around it! Thanks for making this
Hey AHEE, in the off chance you see this, thanks so much for this and your skillex analysis video! It was awesome and helpful as hell. New subscriber here!!!
This isn’t a gain staging tutorial. This is a bussing and grouping tutorial. 🤔
When he put the limiters on it became gain staging
Im going to modify my existing mixer setup (fl studio user here) to model this and see how it works out. All my mix busses are purely grouped according to the instruments, but it never occured to me to take it a step further and create end groups based on the structure of the song. But dividing the limiting across multiple mix busses makes a lot of sense. Thats really the main takeaway here. Thanks for showcasing this tip!
"Throwing a cake at a window = Limiter". Haha such a good analogy
He forgot a routing that the basic and hype chain has been routed to chain group, from chain group its going in the premaster and then the premaster going in the master.
So essentially
Fx - Premaster then to master
Kick and snare - Premaster to master
Top drums - premaster to master
Sub - Hype chain to premaster and then to master
Vocals - Master
Drop - basic chain to chain group and then premaster to master
Melodic - basic chain to chain group and then premaster to master
Both chains go to chain group and then premaster to master
Throwing out the rule book and using limiters how I see fit has taken my tracks to the next level. Thanks for the tips!
id really be interested to see skrillex's system info, that 180 track project file with the insane routing and massive amounts of vst's is insane
Bought your ableton racks a long time ago when you used to do the tuesday tutorials! super useful!
Great Video dude, would love to see you use Skrill's gain staging technique with one of your own projects. I reckon that would help clear some of the loose ends up for those still with a few questions! Subbed and liked.
Thanks for this, it would be really helpful if you could mix one of your tracks using this method. Just for the ones like myself who are starting to mix their own tracks. Subbed and liked 😀
I a bit late to ask, but here it goes!!!
On the subject of mixing down with this type of routing and template, what are your theories on how he is setting the levels on stuff? How is he making his head room for his master chain? Would there be repercussions to adding a utility to each track with the proper head room?
This is really an interesting set up. Much different than a traditional sub mix set up. Thanks for this bro
audiowav3 I just learned this is actually called “Brauerizing” and is a top mixing engineer technique: There is a similar approach in the pop and mainstream world.
Michael Brauer started emulating this approach in the 80s from his mentors.
brauerizing.wordpress.com/2014/03/19/brauerizing-a-how-to-guide/
@@OfficialAHEE Thanks for the insight! I'm applying what I learned from your video and what I will be researching on Brauerizing to my new track.
Initially hard to follow but I got the basic just of it once I thought about. He probably already has his vocals highly processed beforehand. Or processes them afterwards. So makes sense he sends it directly to the master plus you want it taking up the kost dynamics I guess
Love it. Thank u. Isn’t gainstaging when I turn the tracks down to like -6 or whatever
Pretty sure his chains had the sidechain on it as well as eq and limiter. maybe some fx
Big thanks man! I have recently fallen in love with your tutorials
Great video! This is really smart! I've been producing and mixing for a long time and this workflow is something I've only recently started to clue into. Thanks for sharing!
The moment i noticed his UAD icon , i know that ha is a PRO
You bring huge value to the community bro
What is the point of the pre master if the all the processing the pre master does gets sent right to the master anyway? Or is it specifically here to do some of the hard work that you wouldn't want done to every element?
Aheee!! Teeehee!! (Great video btw)
There is so much to unpack here! Thank you and subbed.
Im a new subscriber dude, you really helped me a lot with the skrillex dissecting video
Ahee could you make a video on how you Route your tracks and such like ye mentioned?
Shubham Singh I did! Here it is: czcams.com/video/YPuVnQCG0Fo/video.html
Why do you have to send the Basic Chain and Hype Chain to a Chain Group if they are already grouped under "Chains"? If you route the "Chains" group to "Premaster," I assume you wouldn't need another bus called "Chain Group." Is that correct?
he's probably processing both chains simultaneously within the chain group on top of all the other processing before it feeds into the premaster
Thank you so much for this amazing tutorial. You honestly just saved me days in my mastering process. Thank you.
Great video! i just have one question. How exactly are the limiters used? do you gain stage within the groups then use the limiter tap transients and then the busses just control the gain of entire elements?
No shade, but this is more "template" info; not actual "gain staging." True gain staging is maintaining proper levels as the source, or recorded signal moves through each device/plug-in input stage.
You're a smart man, AHEE. Thank you.
ahee & synthferatu are goats of sound design
Span is an essential, great stuff
thanks dude :D i was hoping for this
with so much limiting how would this work when sending a pre master to a mastering engineer ? would i just turn down all my tracks so my RMS is hitting around -6db? iv seen some people just turn down the master channel but iv heard that this is wrong.
You the man!! Thank you so much for this
Great breakdown. Thanks bruddah!
I love this video BUT YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW HAPPY IT MAKES ME THAT YOU SAY "APPLE+T" INSTEAD OF "COMMAND+T" You are an "apple+G"! Thanks for the great video!
Apple is shit
@@iden4467 no
ur my fav abelton tut dude and its only been a few vids dude no one show how to route in it
11:36 oo you wild for that one boi. but ty for this fr fr
Alexander Nezis fr fr
I'm guna start calling you chicken soup cuz u so sickkk
halo AHEE , nice to meet you 🙏
i notice that, skrillex's project has a channel name "CHAIN HI" (channel 162). i really wonder what it do. do you have any idea?
also, i notice, skrillex project dont have any return track !?
is it true that skrillex dont use return track on his project? have you have heard about it? or any clue can leak?
please reply 🙇♂
Your Alien diagram has the FX going to the basic chain, not the premaster, so which one is it? love the video.
Pretty cool ideas to share but is better if u provide audio examples, you.jus set up a "skrillex inspired" routing. This can be a good starting point but without examples is just an empty project :/
historic tutorial :D 10 years ago we all wanted to know this. Now its the time :) Skrillex showed it off :)
I can say i use a similar group scheming, but just used the routing Ableton automatically sets.
ayeeee look who it isss
@@joeyfeniello HEY BRO YOU FOUND ME
game changing
Awesome job thanks for showing this
You think he had a limiter on every group and not just on the grouped chains, premaster, master? Great video btw 🎉
Thanks AHEE, always insightful and professional.
3:52 have fun clicking on this timer stamp...
Thanks for the great tutorials. When mixing/mastering, if the master is clipping and none of your individual tracks are clipping, can you just use a gain utility on the master to make headroom on the master or should you lower each track individually to make headroom on the master? Does it matter?
Do you use return tracks? And if you do, how do you route them ?
I personally don't use return tracks, I find them annoying as they take up so much screen space. You can achieve the same results by routing to audio tracks like in this video. But if you want to use them just turn up the lil wheel on the right hand side of the track or if you're unfamiliar there are loads of YT vids just look up "How to use Return Tracks". Cheers
Dumb question, so where would the side chain compressor go? The basic chain??
Hey man, super cool video. I'm making a remix today, using these techniques. So sick how loud you can get! I get -3.7 lufs right now. Question: Where do you put your sidechains exactly?
I put mine on the chain group because that’s where everything except the drums, effects and vocals go
@@SENRALL side chain the chains group to the k/s group
Yo this was so helpful ! Thank you 🙏🏼
awesome video man really helpfull. I just have one quistion how can you combine this with for example shaperbox
thank you guy
Perfect THX Man
Great stuff brother
can you do a video on how to fill out low end frequencies without using 808s? 😘
operator? sine waves? sub oscilators?
@@reiherreracl3459 well i mean what if im using samples/audio clips for my main synth. how do i get a sub that follows the same movement as the audio clip? how can i bring out the low end on those so i dont have to just make a midi bassline or have 808s. or is that even a thing?
super helpful! thank you!
1.5x to make him talk normal. You're welcome
1.25 better
I think this man wasn't ready to made this video
Thanks for the info bro
In your educated opinion, do you think this set up is versatile and useful enough that you think it’s likely he uses it on most or all his tracks? Or, is this just specific to the Mumbai Power project?
Thank you, Ahee bought ur racks
Yoooo thanks for the tutorial... also try to keep the fx sends post fader tht ways you will never miss the ratio/proportion of fx u have sent when u adjust ur gain/volume fader.. It helps a lot...
can you explain what you mean by this
Ableton is at default post fader send. That means whatever signal you are sending to the fx depends on the level of your channel as opposed to prefader where the level of the sent signal is independant of channel level or the signal level you are sending into fx. For eg: if you r in post fader and you r sending a synth in a reverb and the channel volume or gain is at -6 db, it will send reverb of -6db(ofcourse given that your signal is all wet), But in prefader it will send full range probably 0dbfs. So in post fader if you take the channel volume down the reveb will come down accordingly but in prefader it wont. Hope that helps.@@noahhenderson
@@whosagoodboi6217ahhh okay. so by default ableton is kinda how you’d normally want it ? does he have it pre-fader in the video? i can’t tell
Hey! Great stuff! One Question: HOW DID YOU CHANGE YOUR TRACK's COLOR PALETTE? I have Ableton 10 and my color palette looks TOTALLY DIFFERENT. Please answer!
Looks like he is using Ableton 9 in this - it is much less colourful than 10 but if you look around you will find plenty of great ableton 10 themes
amazing material! so for example by using this method when i want to use midi trigger using shaperbox, chain group should be rout to audio sidechain track and this sidechain track rout to pre-master or master?
Bro you’re the master rack maker😈❤️
I can’t remember what producers production stream I was watching but remembered something about their friend did photoshop for 7 years then started making dubstep and moved quickly because of his experience with layering, really just clicked what he actually meant since at @7:23 you pretty much described how to layer the drums to sit ontop of another layer doing a different job in the mix. Your videos are fucking dope bro!
What if I build my Drops via Serum direct with a Sub? Do I put this then in the Sub or Drop section?
god bless this man!
One question I actually thought of, how would you go about sidechaining drums or anything else in this method? would there be an easier way like how you did the EQ cut?
podunkton yes I forgot to add the sidechain on the chain group. Oops
@@OfficialAHEE It would be amazing to do a follow up video with his sidechains. I'm assuming any bass elements (aside from his sub) are being routed to the melodic or drop chain?
@@joshuaswonke3126 Following!
camel phat was interesting to me check it with a meter👍thanks for the videos Ahee🙏
Would reverb/delay sends go straight to master or to premaster?
What do you think about putting a limiter on every channel to help out the limiter on the master?
subbed!!! keep going bro!!!
would love more videos about that skrillex video
Aaron Stevens did u see the one I posted last week?
i noticed the chain group u made is routed to the master chain, does that have any effect on the chain basic routing to the premaster?
I was surprised at first as well, but that's how Skrillex's is set up in the video he posted. If all the steps are followed, then having the group going to the master doesn't matter since the routes are going to the premaster and it works. :)
@@OfficialAHEE I was wondering this same thing actually. I assume you could simply treat the actual "Ctrl G" group that the 3 chains are in as the chain group with the basic and hype chains going into it first, and then sending that group to the premaster. Wouldn't that have the same effect as the setup in the video?
@Official AHEE Would it make a huge difference if you used ableton stock limiters on the groups instead of Pro-Ls, while also running the Ozone maximizer on the master?
Abletons stock limiter is less transparent and depending on how aggressively you're limiting the chain/group it will be a bit more noticible. Will still work make no mistake, but you can't get away with quite as much limiting unit it's noticible with the stock limiter. That being said, the idea here is to use multiple limiters individually so that your master limiter has to do less work, so if you were to be limiting your groups too aggressively you'd be missing the point of using multiple limiters anyway.
Tldr: you can use stock limiters if you push them gently
Do you only use a template like this for mixing, or would you use it for tracking too?
How do your racks compare to the puremagnetik racks on Abletons site? Looking for a good rack pack with things like stereo wideners without the phasing etc
So whats the reason behind putting a limiter on each chain?
It let's you monitor and control the peak value at each stage. Also small amounts of limiting at different stages helps you inch sounds forward in the mix, getting your mix louder and louder, inch by inch.
So no limiter on the Chains group? basically the premaster is doing that job?
So cool, but how are the limiters set up?
Do you guys know where sidechain should be inserted?
Is it applied to only sub & main bases before limiting by those chains, or after the limiting?
Otherwise, sidechaining all of the groups after those gain staging process like sidechaining in premaster?
Truly appreciate this video! But I have a little question here, I saw Skrillex routed his Melodic element (In the video, KEYS) into premaster!
I'm sure like most of us He isn't doing the exact same stuff every time.
@@lunchbaux6248 Thank u man learning music is an incredible journey. One year later I kinda understand!
so if im using something like shaperbox to sidechain where in the chain would that go? on the chain group?
Labden yes before the premaster b/c drums are sent to the premaster
hey ahee you are amazing, thank you
you're awesome dude!
Hi everyone, so I know the drop is going to the basic chain. A lot of the elements in my drop are bass sounds. But Ahee is putting an EQ cutting everything under 125HZ. Wouldn't this cut all the low frequencies from my bass sounds?
This tutorial would be so freaking helpful if it were for FL studio, I know able 10 is really where it’s at but right now that’s what I’m working with. Anybody have any suggestions for such a video?
if a video exist about this or if you find one could you post it here ? i wish i could find for FL studio too 🙄
Is it possible to use just Abletons limiters instead of Fabfilters? I believe my CPU is going to blow up :D
what settings are you using for the Pro-L? Just default settings or did you use a preset?