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Kit Connor, Queerbaiting, & Coming Out | notcorry
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- čas přidán 29. 01. 2023
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What do you think? Can real people queerbait? Did the video change your mind on anything?
Yes i think so - but we need to be more careful with real people. The very reason its possible for them to queerbait is also why we should protect them, its never possible to know whats going on in someone's mind!
Yes, but trying to search who's queerbaiting or not ends up being more harmful than good especially with ppl who are still trying to understand they're queerness.
It's definitely possible for people with a lot of influence. In fact there's a known trend of straight men heavily implying they are gay to grow their followings on social media (Barret Pall has spoken a lot about this). But in general I think the harm of NOT believing someone who is presenting themself as queer feels like a much greater risk than that of believing, supporting, and otherwise keeping them safe. I also think if we heavily invest in casting and uplifting openly queer people who are gender-nonconforming, Black & brown, etc. it will become less and less lucrative for cis white entertainers to queerbait.
Rowan Ellis is.. mortal? I would not have guessed it.
Nope. Because queerbaiting is done in fiction, by writers who want to keep the bigots happy. People who don't come out IRL but play gay characters aren't queer baiting because you don't have to be gay to play a gay character. People were mad that a bi person wasn't dating a guy. Like, what do they think bi means exactly? Plus, nobody here was pretending to be gay or bi IRL, Kit was being a person and his only """""crime""""" (there aren't enough scare quotes in the world for this) was not dating his costar. Like, calm the F down. He wasn't pretending to be gay at all. He played a bi character. That's it. That's the extend of the "queerbaiting" they're accusing him of.
And if actors are still in the closet it's probably because hollywood can pretend to be cool with lgbtq+ people all they like, but the people who make the decisions and who pay for it all are not allies. Coming out can and has killed many careers and staying in the closet to save yourself is not queerbaiting.
His character’s whole arc in the story is learning that liking girls doesn’t mean you can’t like boys and that you can be bisexual, and yet when he’s seen with a girl people act like he couldn’t possibly be queer
The irony is large
Even if we put aside the bi erasure (which is fucking atrocious, by the way) I still don’t understand why or how fans would interpret him being seen HOLDING HANDS with a girl with him being in a relationship with a girl. This isn’t just bi erasure, it’s heteronormativity and amatornativity. As an aro/ace person I am quite affectionate with my friends with no romance or sex attached, so I have no clue how holding hands shows people’s attraction. The only reason these people assume that is because, despite how they like to believe they care about queer people, their actions are being driven by the same oppressive systems they’re fighting. Because a guy and a girl can’t just be friends, and affection of any kind is reserved for an intimate partner, right?
As someone who's still on and off abt being on the aroace spec, I strongly agree.
people always assume what they want to think, they can't think that maybe there's another explanation to things 🙄
Very well put
I love how your Scots accent gets more pronounced the more passionate you are! You never disappoint, your content is always thought provoking.
Omg i was thinking this too! Corry seemed to get more scottish in this video and i couldnt work out how 😅 the "R"s got more rolled it seemed
I was thinking about this during the video! I loved how passionate he got talking about this!
I was obsessed as soon as I noticed this lol
Just couldn't help purrring every time he rolled his rrrrrr
I’m Scottish and do this all the time when i talk louder or rant my Scottish accent gets stronger
"stop policing peoples queerness and uplift the community" 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
as someone who is bisexual , the bi erasure of it hurt so bad. this video was so good! thank you for this. it means so much to me seeing how angry you were about it bc i was angry too!
Good point. I was very confused as a kid because the media presented me with 2 options, both monosexual.
“There’s this idea that if you’re not straight, you HAVE to tell all your family and friends IMMEDIATELY, like you owe it to them. But you don’t. You don’t HAVE to do anything.” - Aled Last, Heartstopper Vol. 3, pg 107
Truly these people could not have missed the point of this story more if they tried. Charlie being outed before the main story is a huge source of pain and trauma for him, leading to the very control issues which manifest in his eating disorder.
This video was a really informative explanation of the situation, and actually changed my mind on whether or not real people can queerbait. I was firmly in camp “no they can not” before watching this, but you made a nuanced argument that they can, while acknowledging that there’s still absolutely no justification for harassing someone over it.
What happened with Kit disgusts me. The second he opted to not public label his sexuality-despite referring to himself as part of the queer community as early as APRIL, right when the show came out-people took that to mean he was probably straight. People are so goddamn entitled, it’s infuriating. Him being photographed holding hands with a girl apparently gave them the excuse they needed to be louder and more aggressive about it.
And the fact that the harassment didn’t stop after he outed himself?? Some of these people are so unbelievably biphobic that they took him labeling himself as bi as an excuse to throw terms like “bihet” at him. Bihet!! Because apparently being bisexual, but looking masculine and MAYBE dating a girl, means he’s not queer enough. Because some random person on Twitter has the right to decide that. Because there’s only one acceptable way to be queer.
As if Heartstopper doesn’t show many different ways to be queer-as if the POINT of Nick’s character isn’t that he doesn’t fit expectations (read: STEREOTYPES) and so people make assumptions about him. As if Charlie doesn’t say in the first goddamn episode “masculine guys can be gay, and bisexual people exist”!
I know I’m a bit (or perhaps a lot) past the target demographic for this show, but as a bisexual trans guy, Nick Nelson means so much to me. Bisexual rep, and especially male bisexual rep, since we’re not fetishized by straight men the way bi women are, is so limited. And it fucking sucks that people could watch a show that is so good, and so important, and behave this way. Clearly, they only accept Nick’s bisexuality because he ends up with a boy.
Also, “more of a simmering bisexual” cracked me up. I do think Nick gets more and more raging as the comic continues and he gets more and more comfortable with himself! Definitely looking forward to THAT in the future seasons of the show!
PS: sorry this is so long lol
Never apologize for being passionate. Never.
If you’re bisexual you’ll get at least one person that will say if you’re with a girl you’re straight but if you’re with a boy you’re gay they act like bisexual people don’t exist
GOD I love Aled
Perfectly said !
And for an extra helping of bi erasure, the female co-star Kit was seen holding hands with is ALSO bisexual. She's been out as bi for a while. So much bi erasure there.
i don’t think it is bi erasure? no one said/assumed she was straight?
but they're not straight people... which is the entire point...
i’m a tiktok editor, i’ve loved heartstopper since october 2021. i read all the comics and followed all the cast etc. when the show came out i absolutely loved it so i made a few edits of it, and decided to make an edit of kit bc i loved him as nick. it got 110k views i think. i had to delete an alarming amount of comments where people were sexualising kit calling him “daddy” etc. there was loads of comments calling him “my boyfriend” and stuff, so i think people became so obsessed with the idea of dating kit (literally question mark) that they felt they NEEDED to know if they “had a chance”. i’ve deleted all edits of the cast now because the comments are so alarming it makes me actually concerned. loved this video so much thank u for making it !!
Damn... That's really creepy.
especially super weird since he had JUST turned 18
I think you've hit the nail on the whole head. Creepy parasocial (frankly pedophilic) relationships.
they sexualised him so much its actually disgusting. especially since he was underage while filming
Isn't he a teenager 😭
I feel like a lot of younger queer people who spend most of their time online don’t truly understand that it can be DANGEROUS to be openly queer. Of course they know that, but they don’t genuinely comprehend it. As someone who’s been out for longer than a lot of these kids have been alive, when I saw this shitshow go down I was genuinely horrified for Kit. We never know what someone’s situation is and I really hope he’s safe.
That’s the whole point. It is dangerous, but people do it anyways because they want too be who they are. Too hide behind a safety net is to spit in the face of those who have no choice but too experience what it’s really like too be queer.
What makes me especially mad about this is I also don’t think it would’ve been a problem for me if Kit Connor WAS straight.
It only would’ve been a problem for hyper-obsessive fans who’s demands of irl identity comes across as incredibly perverted.
Like sure, he plays a queer character. Importantly though, a YOUNG queer character actively struggling with his identity.
HOW can we allow Nick to question his sexuality and ultimately realize he’s bi without having the same understanding for ANYONE questioning their sexuality REGARDLESS of what they eventually “decide” to label themselves as, IF they choose to do so at all!!
I hate this particular situation especially, because if Kit had said he was straight, he probably would have been “cancelled”. He was backed into a corner, he couldn’t stay unlabeled due to harassment, he couldn’t say he was straight due to potential harassment, he couldn’t say he was young and experimenting, he didn’t have the basic dignity of having an open audience to be honest to.
He was backed into a box with pitchforks.
He played a fictional character, and people conflated his professional on screen chemistry with irl desires and/or identity.
I’m all for giving queer roles to queer actors, but I’m ALSO for giving the right roles to the right actors, and Heartstopper had a LOT of demands for finding the right actor (age, chemistry, appearance, experience…) and I just don’t think anyone should EVER be cancelled or attacked for their sexuality, heterosexuality included.
Heartstopper did a lot for the LGBT community. Kit Connor in the role of Nick did a lot for the LGBT community. That wouldn’t have been erased or undone if Kit Connor happened to realize he was heterosexual. An absolutely pointless hypothetical threat that threatens NOTHING in reality other than the interest of the obsessive fanbase (aka $$$).
A major point of Heartstopper is sexuality is complicated, difficult, and incredibly personal.
How did the fans of that show miss that?
I wish time didn’t work the way it did, because we’ve learned this lesson before (*coughs* Dan and Phil…). Real people are not characters, they have lives and feelings that cannot be entirely accurately placed into text.
Ugh, thanks for the video Corry, I hope it reaches one or two people who still don’t understand.
Oh man. I’m so upset that 2 of the fandoms I’ve been most active in (the dan and Phil/phandom and the Heartstopper fandom have both been so toxic to the closeted people they are fans of. It’s so sad and upsetting
Honestly well said
damn that's a lot of dramatic rationalization. "He was backed into a corner" he's a famous person who could just ignore the comments.
@@greynotchristian sure, he could have, but the harassment was pretty severe, constant, and widespread, and harassment of that nature is going to affect anyone, even if they’re a public figure
@@j.genovese1769 you cannot harass famous people, but you're subscribed to hasan so that says it all
Just recently I stopped identifying as bi and am currently unlabeled, I made this decision knowing that I have friends that will respect me no matter what. After realising that I might not be bi after identifying with that label for such a long time I find myself almost grieving the label. I feel so bad for what happened to Kit conner. If he ever identifies as anything other than bi in the future he will get these horrible accusations again.
@@prasannashetty965 no, I'm still young, I'm still figuring out my identity and who I'm attracted to. I know that I'm attracted to people of the same gender I'm just not sure if I feel the same way about people of the opposite gender anymore. I thought I did which is why I identified as bi but I'm not sure anymore so I'm currently just identifying as queer and unlabeled. Either way it's not up to anyone other than me how I identify. Educate yourself before you comment possibly harmful things. Kit connor is also still very young and should he ever realise that he's not attracted to women or men then he will be harassed once again.
I get this upset concerning transphobia in relationships: saying someone has to be pan to date a trans person, and a gay man with a trans man isn’t gay- etc etc etc. that phobia usually comes from within our own community. I’m not Bi, but I absolutely understand how frustrating this is. It extra sucks when the LGBTQAI community attacks it’s own…
The amount of people saying Tao must be pan since he likes a trans girl....... anger-inducing....
i saw everything cause i’m on twitter and honestly the “fans” there is still going on about how kit is still queerbaiting. the fans wanted kit to come out and now they’re mad at him cause he came out. it’s honestly very disappointed to see such people come out of a show like heartstopper.
I can’t imagine the thoughts Kits having while working on season two
What happened to Kit makes me so mad, heartstopper so accurately portrayed the coming out process and how its ok not to know and/or not want to come out, but these people just ignored that completely. I love Heartstopper so much and I thought the fanbase was as wholesome as the show, but I guess I was wrong.
The whole Kit Connor situation makes me incredibly sad. He's a young person that is good at what he does and has a fanbase that should have enough braincells to respect him. A bunch of young girls that liked seeing him kiss another boy hated that he had a girlfriend and demanded that he give them answers. It's absolutely disgusting and really upsetting.
Really interested in your views on this. Personally I think trying to apply queerbaiting on real humans might do more harm than good considering how easily it is already being abused. As long as a person is not actively lying about their identity with malicious intent that can be proven, the term queerbaiting should imo stay in the realm of fiction. Anyways, looking forward it the video!
this was a brilliant essay!!! the problem was never queerbating, it was the fans’ biphobia.
Ranting about biphobia so relatable, when I saw people were so biphobic i couldn’t believe it, just so stupid ( and weird coming from heartstopper fans)
after seeing your tweet from yesterday I decided to clarify here that I didn’t mean ranting in any negative way nor wanted to belittle how well thought out your points are ( as a non native speaker i might be missing some meaning behind the word )
yeah i totally agree, i’ve always thought it was weird that the internet™️ sees the “real people can/can’t queerbait” debate as so binary. real people can queerbait sure but you really won’t ever know for sure unless they admit it, which no one ever would so there’s no reason to even have the debate in the first place let alone ever directly accuse someone of it. what’s funny to me is the people who keep getting accused of queerbaiting aren’t even doing or saying anything queerbaity they’re literally just existing and getting stereotyped lmao
queerbaiting is a tactic from writers who make their characters seem queer enough with a lot of hints, but not enough to tip off the bigots. A real person CANNOT do that. They are not a character, they are not the writer behind their own lives.
@@AnnekeOosterink Corry literally covered in this video why this is not the case. If you look at an lgbt+ tiktok - or hell, even vine, compilation, many of the videos on there will be boys who, at the least, present as straight, acting gay for clicks. That doesn't mean that every time someone does something their audience interprets as "gay" that they are queerbaiting, but real people absolutely can queerbait. Because, online, real people are not real people. They are a curated image based on the real person behind the created content.
@@AnnekeOosterink Celebrities do have a brand/image which they can capitalise on via qbaiting.
This is exactly how I feel when I see people talk about "transtrenders". If I'm completely honest, there have been a very select few individuals (who I will not name since that would defeat the purpose of this conversation) who I honestly did not believe to be sincere in their discussions on being "trans"; HOWEVER, when that thought hit me, I stopped. Being bisexual myself, my experience with biphobia was just like Corry described (except that I have noticed that for AFAB people like myself the biphobia tends to be more "you're doing it for attention" while AMAB or bi men tend to get the "you're not fully out of the closet"). When I remembered my own experience of people claiming my orientation, WHO I AM, was just attention seeking nonsense, I realized it wasn't right to make those same assumptions of others. Are there individuals who may use the label for attention? Maybe. But the harm that you could potentially be doing do a fellow queer person is SO much worse. If, on the off chance, they ARE doing it for attention, then don't give it to them. Don't respond, leave it alone and move on with your life. It's not worth the risk of making assumptions and then harming others with them. I'm also nonbinary, and have struggled to come out to people throughout my life for this very reason. When I realized so much of the rhetoric was "you're doing it for attention" after already experiencing biphobia from both the queer and straight community, I just felt defeated. "Same shit, different day". Our assumptions are often wrong. We don't know these people personally. Thanks for the video Corry!
This video covers this issue succinctly with very entertaining explanation and examples - well done!
I really do think that people get too caught up in trying to get upset about actors in shows not being the same character in real life. Kit is obviously a human, and has their own feelings and personal life and sometimes fans of shows have this parasocial relationship with their favourite actors and its something that is incredibly toxic and needs to be spoke about more.
Great video as always Corry, hope your evening is lovely
Congrats on the video! It was very informative whilst being incredibly entertaining 🙌🙌
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it!
Unironically when I first watched Love Actually last year I was so shocked at the lost potential and genuinely just weird tone they went with Mark and Juliet - I thought Mark was in love with Peter the way the initial wedding sequence was shot and the initial interaction between Mark and Juliet went. I was so let down since I feel like it would have been such a better story line and a much less dodgy one than Mark suddenly turning up to Juliet's and being 'Hi I know that you're happily married and have done nothing but tried to be friends with me whilst I've been a dick to you but I'm going to make it your problem that I loved you - Merry Christmas!' I know it was released in 2003 and I can acknowledge why this probably wasn't done but it still doesn't make it suck any less.
I was a 12 year old baby when it came out and I can honestly remember thinking the exact same thing and being so annoyed that it didn’t play out. It was right there! Even a (very queer) child could see it! Exactly like watching Bend it Like Beckham and realising that Jess and Jules weren’t getting together at the end.
You made me fully sob. When I saw that tweet my heart sunk in a way that is has never done before. The fact that this will forever be the way he had to come out will forever break my heart. All my love to Kit, I hope he has a strong support network around him.
the main argument i saw in response to kit's tweet was along the lines of "you have a responsibility as an entertainer within queer content to come out". I think a lot of ppl relied on the sad reality that a lot of celebrities are not treated like actual people, and then excepted that there was nothing that can be done about it. However, that is something that people should be focused on changing and the ACTUAL reality we need to except is that these celebrities ARE people and do not owe us anything. Actors are artists, not servers
A good example of real people queerbaiting is when Sebastian Bails posted a video that was titled "Finally Coming Out and Telling The Truth" video. He spent 70% of the video talking about like "Not even my family knows what I'm about to tell you", "I've done a lot of self discovery" and then "I met someone" and vague pronouns and then by the end when there's all the watch time given he stops with the vague pronouns and basically his big "truth" was that he got a new girlfriend and left LA
Thank you very much for making this video. This is the first video of yours that I’ve seen and I agree with everything you said 100%. As a gay dude who is approaching 50, I can’t believe that queer people still think they’re entitled to know other people’s private business. Outing someone, or pressuring them to come out, is never someone else’s job. It’s up to each individual person to do it on their own terms. Heartstopper was probably the most wholesome and optimistic queer content I’ve ever seen on tv, and the fact that anyone can consider themselves a fan and have totally missed the message is kind of mind boggling.
Such a well put and considered video.
Coming out is still a big thing for anyone, and for people in the public eye it is genuinely monumental. No celebrity owes their fans any of their private life.
Thank you. We should no more expect an actor who portrays a murderer on screen to actually BE a murderer, anymore than expect an actor who portrays a gay character to actually BE gay. It’s called acting! Really good ones are incredibly believable in character.
definitely an issue i've noticed in left spaces online recently. there's so much discourse over policing how other people identify and it is WILD to me. especially with stuff like this, like Kit is a child still. can we not leave people be 😭
This sort of thing is also why there's an issue with "only casting queer roles with queer actors" while it's nice seeing a queer person get to play a queer role, we have no way of knowing if the actors playing those roles who are starting to catch some flack for it are straight or closeted. It also seems to ignore the fact that queer actors have played straight roles on multiple occasions (think Ben Platt and all the straight characters he's been cast as)
It's literally an actor's job to embody their character and play the role they were cast as while they're on screen for the production, they don't need to be their character off set too and expecting them to be the character you know them as all the time is just strange and overbearing at best
Very well said!!
I also want to especially emphasize: "they could just have personality traits that are associated with queerness... shocker" because as a long time fan of Darren Criss, YES, thank you!!
It is definitely especially egregious when the person being harassed hasn't even publicly stated how they identify, but even if they HAVE (as is the case with Darren, who has only ever confirmed he's straight), and even if we assume the person is indeed fully cis and straight... it is not "queerbaiting" to simply have a gender presentation that's more typically associated with queerness! I just find it so frustrating that people can be all about "tear down the patriarchy and rigid gender norms!", and then the minute a cis straight person *actually* exhibits gender presentation outside of the norm for cis straight people, it's "queerbaiter!!" I'm sorry, are cis straight people not allowed to present however the hell they want as well? Since when is it a okay to gate keep them from having the same freedom of expression!?
But yes, even more so with people who haven't even publicly said one way or the other how they identify... why does anyone think they have the right to be assuming how that person identifies?
I think the only time I'd ever find it fair to criticize someone is if they've presented themselves in a way meant to engage a queer audience, and then done things that actively harm the LGBTQ community behind the scenes. THAT is a problem, but it's not even really queer baiting so much as just hypocrisy. It would still be wrong even if they did happen to be part of the community themselves. But very few if any of the people regularly accused of queer baiting have done anything that harms the community at all, as far as I'm aware.
Damn the scottish really coming out in this video
my exact thoughts (coming from a scottish person)
I am sure the rest of the video is also interesting, but I had to pause to express how much I vibed with your rage when talking about Finn and Poe. Sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night to stare into the void and scream in my head 🙃
I am here for the bi rant in the middle. 👏👏👏
i love how you're not afraid to get mad. so many of queer people's arguments get discounted if we show just an ounce of emotion because people just call us mentally unstable and be on their way. people are rightfully angry about this and deserve to be. thank you for not hiding behind a nice face, people don't owe others respect if they are blatantly disrespectful.
edit: forgot to tell you if i'm lgbtq+ or not ! i'm the t and the q!
I love how you explain things! And also your shirt is epic!
Holy shit! This is the first of your videos I've watched. It was so well researched. Your talking points were immaculate. Entertaining, informative, validating. Also, it's nice to hear some love for heart stoppers. A few content creators i really enjoy threw a lot of hate on it because it was very fluffy, and the problems were tied up in a nice bow by the end. But I agree with you. GOOD queer representation doesn't have to focus on the soul crushing hurdles we've had/have to face. It doesn't HAVE to be presented by someone with a masters degree. There is PLENTY of heterosexual content that is just a nice feel-good love story with a wholesome message, where the main characters kiss at the end and you swoon and get butterflies. We should have queer content like that, too!
26 mins in and I feel tears welling. Thank you Corry. 💜
This video covered everything, you said it better than anyone. I will never forget how my heart dropped when I saw his tweet, it’s absolutely so disheartening that people could be so disgusting and harsh.
That photo with you and Kit was so realistic. I can tell you two are close friends.
Whenever people say "real people can't qbait!" I always think of Billie Eilish ( *and her marketing team* ) releasing Wish You Were Gay without letting people know what it's actually about.
I agree with your take on queerbaiting. The phrase “ Real people can’t queerbait” never sat right with me as i saw multiple straight creators use it as marketing tool. However, calling possible queerbaiting out is so stupid and harmful
I love that your position is so well argumented ( also the way you explore multiple ideas and themes in such an accessible way is amazing !)
It’s not stupid and harmful to call out possible queerbaiting. Where people went wrong with Kit was the harassment and bullying. People are allowed to be questioned on their intentions and impact.
@@Xplreli why shoul it be questioned tho ?
@@chloe-fy4wc if you are a celebrity profiting off of the quiet community than absolutely
such a good video and so important. i have so many thoughts that i cant quite articulate, but thank you. i had a comment typed out about the concept of coming out versus the freedom of fluidity that is, in my opinion, at the very center of sexuality/ gender. and it’s always members of the community that force this notion of coming out on people. again, so many thoughts i cant articulate but as always corry you’ve produced something very important.
I don’t follow the notion that you can force people too come out. Coming out is a choice. If you are getting backlash for it than welcome too what the reality is of being queer. You will be questioned. Straight and gay people alike have too come to terms with this. Either you stay in the closet and are questioned or you come out. You can’t have both.
@@Xplreli my exact point is that it shouldn't be the reality. it just perpetuates the idea that being straight is the norm and everybody is assumed to be straight unless they come out. if people stopped with assumptions and embraced the fluidity of sexuality and broke down labels and stereotypes then there would be no place for assumptions
@@g6ohlay well if you actively are telling people you are straight then i’m going to think you’re straight. Everyone in the community says that we shouldn’t assume what people sexualities are and now y’all are saying that we should assume that people who say they are straight, aren’t straight??? Which is it???
@@g6ohlay I think y’all are confusing fluid sexuality with this idea that everyone is gay. Not everyone is gay. The types of people with fluid sexuality that we should be paying attention to and praising are those who actually label themselves as fluid, not straight people that we assume are gay because “well maybe they haven’t come out yet.”
@@Xplreli maybe we should agree to disagree !
This is such a fantastic video!!!! Really well thought out and I completely agree. Now I finally have the words to describe my opinion!
Daaaamn! 22 minutes in and Corry drops the mic. That's a point I never even thought of-- but I've been on the outskirts of this argument. I thought it was silly to begin with, but adding bi-erasure to this while thing, and it's even more depressing that people did this.
Cursed child : my friends who like dont consume any lgbt content thought i was crazy for saying it was queer baiting. They saw nothing of them absolutely acting like potiential romantic interest. And then we saw the play and they were like omg I get it 🤣🤣 the actor for malfoy played it.. flamboyant. It was great. I wish they changed the play to end with them dating. 😂
like i understand people wanting queer people to play queer roles, but that doesn’t mean people owe us [viewers] knowledge about their sexuality, or anything frankly. this whole situation was so frustrating, and the fact that Kit is just one example of a celebrity that was forcibly outed. there have been many others, and others currently being harassed by the internet bc they aren’t publicly queer, despite playing a queer character or presenting queer, whatever that means. regardless of whether they are or not, shouldn’t really matter. people need to chill tf out. you’re video was very well done!
That whole bit about how online queer people can sometimes focus way too much on conceptual justice was *chefs kiss*
I had noticed that myself but could never find the words to describe what I was seeing
Thank you for this amazing video!
Coming out is a difficult process and decision. No one should be forced to do it before they're ready because it can be dangerous and bring up harmful situations. It's a choice to and you're not any less queer for being in a straight presenting relationship or not wanting to label yourself.
Thank you! Totally agree. When this all started I was like: Ok y’all gotta stop NOW or this is going to end bad. I think what’s also interesting that I didn’t even know ppl were accusing him of hinting at a queer identity? Everything I saw was about him making a profit of a queer story line and just EXISTING in a queer show. Idk Kinda makes it even more screwed up
When it comes to our own community we do an horrific job at looking after our own, unless they are gay or lesbian, everyone else is ignored or attacked.
What got me was as you said this was done by "fans" of the show and comic. I put fans in quotes as clearly they neither read the books or they didn't understand what they were about. The entire story is about one boy who was forced out and another who is finding his feet. Yet here we have the "fans" demanding Kit to out himself verbally attacking and bullying him. Meaning they were not true fans of the show.
For decades we have had straight actors play gay characters in tv and movies, no one jumped up and down at Kate Winslet for playing a lesbian in Ammonite, Kevin Kline for playing a gay school teacher. Or Eric McCormack for playing a gay man in will and Grace, also no one yelled at Sean Hayes ( Jack McFarland) to out himself.
Yet people were happy to attack an 18 year old for "queer bating" at no point in any interview did Kit even suggest he was gay or bi, people assumed it because of a character he plaid on a tv show. Then when he was seen out with a female cast member from another show people jumped that they were together and imediatly attacked him. So they made two assumptions one of Kit's sexuality and the second that he was in a relationship with a woman. Also so what if he is.
The "fans" immediatly forgot that bi people exist and demanded that he out himself to feed their need to know the ins and outs of a celibrities life. Ignoring the fact he is a young adult still figuring himself out and owes us nothing.
I don't get why it is people assume that people someone is a celibrity that we the general public must know everything about them and that they must tell us everything, they dont. We need to remember that these are humans with a life and a right to privacy like the rest of us. We've seen time and time again where young actors have been damanged by the profession be that publicity or even fans themselves. I just hop that Kit is able to move passed this without any long lasting affects emotionally.
The discussion of real people queerbaiting needs to be more nuanced that it often has been. This is a great video.
this literally reminds me of all those “coming out… as straight” videos around national coming out day
Great video, very well articulated! The Scottish accent is strong in this one and i love listening to it!
was looking forward to this!! great video :)
Great video! Before watching this video I was more on the side of real people can't queerbait, but your argument has definitely made me reconsider. Either way, I totally agree with your main point that the real conversation shouldn't be focused on whether or not real people can queerbait but rather on how certain behaviors can be harmful to queer individuals.
This is so frustrating and sadly it happens to many communities
Thank you for this video ! When punishing potential perpetrators comes before protecting potential victims, there's a big problem. Why punish if it isn't ultimately to help ensure victims safety ?
What is it about anger that brings out the Scottish accent? I appreciated it as a fellow Scottish bi who was also furious with this story, the rolling Rs were wild. I'll be sending this video to a lot of people who I was trying to explain some of this to but I couldn't quite articulate it this well. While forcing to come out is awful, the bi-erasure seemed to barely be reported. And I believe the person he was even seen with identifies as queer! It's all just maddening. Thanks for making this video! x
It is so devastating that “fans” forced this 18 year old kid to come out. I totally agree with Kit that they completely missed the point of the show.
I watched heartstopper because of this video. it was very wholesome and cute (:
This video is so amazing, I love the points you made. This video should be shared with everyone in the world whether they participated in outing and bullying kit connor or not.
Loved the video-you encapsulate my thoughts on the matter. It took engaging with others online after Heartstopper and before Kit came out, which is when I also stumbled onto the Harry Styles fan base (e.g., Larries, Zarries, Harries, etc.) to hone my thoughts and beliefs about the matter, as I hadn’t given it (queer baiting, queer coding, para social relationships, etc.) a lot of thought.
I understand people wanting to know someone’s sexuality because we LGBTQ folk still need representation, but wanting that knowledge and being entitled to that are two different things.
I also understand speculation… that behavior has gone on related to so many topics regarding popular cultural figures ever since we starting having parasocial relationships. And it can be harmful and also helpful. It can harm the public figure, but it can also help the public figure as they learn what the public thinks. The public can be helped because individuals can learn about themselves and their values via engagement. But they can also be hurt, as it can be a place where people reinforce exclusionary tendencies or hatreds.
I think what is important to remember is that regarding of what you think, it’s likely speculation without serious evidence to the contrary. For example, people will come right out and state that Lana Turner stabbed her husband to death when her daughter admitted to it. No court of law determined that. It’s pure speculation. You might think it very likely for many reason, but it remains speculation not fact.
You are trying to put lipstick on a pig here. What you call speculating, I call gossiping once you communicate that crap to others. . I don't see a lot of virtue to gossiping' about someone elses sexuality. I never publically label someone else's sexuality or orientation unless I pick that someone's own label. People are gay if they say they are. they are straight if they say they are. They are bi if they say they are, and stayed unlabeled if they don't like labels - until they say differently. Speculate in your own head, and its harmless. Once you work to get your ideas out there, into someone else's ears or eyes, it's something different.
I always find your videos so entertaining great job
I've never heard you sound so Scottish. I love when people being angry brings out their accent.
As a heartstopper fan, I'm still in disbelief that this whole thing happened. It was so toxic, and Kit didn't deserve that at all. He deserved to choose when he came out, if he wanted to at all. I'm glad content like this is being created and explaining the difference between queerbaiting and being LGBTQ+
Excellent video. Thanks for pulling this issue apart and explaining it so well.
this was an amazing video, that really got my blood boiling! Also i find it so funny that you're scottish accent gets stronger and stronger the more angry u get! LY
Amazing video. This is such an important topic that has to be talked about especially with the added element of parasocial relationships.
the word queer sounds so nice in scottish accent
Your shipping knowledge made me smile, not going to lie.
i am a transperson and its nice to see a wide spectrum of both gender and sexuality
I'm sorry to be negative but it shocks me that fans of this positive light hearted show would put kit into this position, as a fan of the show myself I'm ashamed that others are causing so much harm on kit Connor. I am a closeted bisexual and nick is a character I connect to a lot. I would hate to come out this way and kit Connor doesn't deserve this. the people who put kit in this position are ignorant and need to think about there consuquences, I'm sorry kit Connor you didn't deserve this. Also we should talk about how well Corry explained this. he is so intelegent and explained it in a way people can understand, thank you for making this video Corry! and spreading awareness its appreciated. I hope kit is ok
such a good watch! thanks corry
I think the whole concept of being entitled to someone’s personal information just because they are in the public eye is crazy, it doenst give you a better view of who these people are because it could very well be scripted or a ‘different’ version of themselves. But the fact that this whole problem could have been solved if, disregarding the fact that it was about a lgbtq+ person and that is a whole another story, the so called fans could just leave well enough alone, and give these people so peace. Dont even get me started on the concept of paparazzi.
💯👏👏👏👏 Once more, with feeling and louder for those in the back!! Love this, and thank you for speaking up ❤❤❤
oh my god I've been thinking this for years; celebrities may be real people but they're basically just brands at this point
i’ve met corry irl and he was so nice and genuine
just wanna drop in here, some people (actually how i found out) are making jokes about this- “oh you’re a heartstopper fan? what kind are you? did you force kit out the closet?” you do NOT joke about that. you spread awareness in a sane way.
It's the thing you see from Asian BL fans, they don't actually care about gay men they care about their imagined couple, hence why they harass the actors... It's harder to accuse the BL actors of queerbaiting because if they don't do this ambiguous fanservice it will hurt their career. They also don't use their consumer influence to hold actors who are openly homophobic accountable or who mistreat openly queer actors.
It’s been a year since you posted this that I’m tripping over it. I hate the term queer-baiting. I guess I’m old enough to still be glad there’s any positive queer representation on screen. Yes, I’m glad when queer characters are represented by queer actors, but I don’t feel it necessary that *every* queer character is so represented. I just want as much accurate a/o positive representation as possible.
I felt so bad for Kit Connor when all this came about. Unfortunately , it didn’t surprise me that it happened. Uberfans feel entitled to the actors’ lives, when it’s their work-product we are invested in, not them. I adore the on-screen chemistry between Locke & Connor. I’ve also enjoyed the CZcams vids with the cast. But that’s the extent to which I have any rights into their lives and I wish more people would respect that. It’s like when The Birdcage was new and Lane & Williams were doing the talk show circuit. Williams deflected any questions about Lane’s orientation because he wasn’t ready to deal with that publicly yet. The public is not entitled to actor’s personal life.
Oh, and don’t get me started on bi-erasure by monosexuals. [insert stress-relieving neck roll here] I’m a gen-x, neurospicy, afab, genderfluid, biromantic, demisexual.(I think you’d asked for our identifiers. Quite a mouthful, eh?) I’ve been (mostly) out for 30+ years, although I’ve been quite the hermit for the last ~10 years. My social circle these days (outside of blood relatives) is almost exclusively some flavor of bi/pan a/o nb a/o neurodivergent because at least they understand if I’m in a relationship, my partner’s gender doesn’t affect how I identify. I’m not passing as gay or str8; I’m still bi no matter what.
This video should be required viewing before being permitted to watch season 2. LOL.
i’ll give alice oseman a call
Thank you, thank you, thank you. Seeing this happen has been heartbreaking and maddening, and especially hurtful as a bi person myself.
Even if Kit was massive heterosexual the fact that he cares about and accepts the queer community enough to portray this character so well is a good thing and deserves to be recognized as such
That was a very effective and informative rant. Thanks!
whenever I start thinking about Finn and Poe and the sequels I also have to force myself to stop because I get so frustrated lmao 😩
The difference between Dan and Phil and others is that they never used their closeted self too profit off of people. They didn’t make jokes about it and pretend too be gay while still identifying as being straight.
i wanna seeeee iiiit,, cannot wait
Your fury is shared, my friend. This is really powerful. Thank you.
I think a good example of real people queer baiting was Dylan O’Brien and Tyler Heochlin all over each other on that boat telling people to vote for them for favorite ‘ship’ for a mtv movie award and they would make the couple cannon and then they never even alluded to it.
Yes they are real people but the queerbaiting was still about the characters not themselves
i think you've misunderstood - that isn't an example of "real people" queerbaiting. that's just bog standard queerbaiting because it was about the sexuality of the characters, not the actors themselves.
the "real people queerbaiting" discourse isn't about real people who engage in queerbaiting, because that describes all queerbaiting. writers, marketers, directors, actors, and producers are (mostly) all real people. the discourse is about people who "queerbait" using themselves & their own sexuality.
@@notcorry ooooooo ok, I get it now! thank you for laying it out in simpler terms for me, I really appreciate it
Does anyone remember a Canadian bisexual CZcamsr named Tracy something back in the day? He helped me a lot when I was starting to come to terms with my bisexuality. But one day he told everyone he had been lying about being bi and deleted his channel. I'm not sure if he was really lying or if something bad happened in his life to put him back in the closet, but could that be considered a real person queer baiting?
i don’t recall the channel, but from the description you gave that sounds a lot more like a bi person who had to go back in the closet than a straight person who was lying. Like, i’m pretty sure most of the straight people i’ve met would not be capable of constructing and maintaining an entire youtube channel centered around bisexuality and having it be legitimate enough that bi people themselves find the information useful
Shaking my head at the notion of being "not queer enough"
2:47 fun fact! The Wikipedia page about Asexuallity says that the original creator of Sherlock Holmes intended him to not be vulnerable to the temptations of flesh and "solely driven his intellect"(I have not read the books, so if this is wrong, then blame Wikipedia) technically making him really old asexual representation(and thus queer representation).
I was not aware of the situation, but it sounds absolutely awful! You nailed your point, great video! Dont harrass people, people!
interesting and well made, like usual 👍
incredible!! said it SO perfectly
the idea of real people queerbaiting seems almost inherently anti bi