I'm only going to say this once... - Acoustic treating with Elgato Wave
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- čas přidán 4. 07. 2024
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We measure - objectively and subjectively - the amount of reverb in our shop and treat the issue with Elgato's new acoustic panels. Now shop videos won't sound like crud!
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Title: Laszlo - Supernova
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Outro Screen Music Credit: Approaching Nirvana - Sugar High / approachingnirvana
Intro animation by MBarek Abdelwassaa / mbarek_abdel
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CHAPTERS
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0:00 Intro
1:35 Product Overview
2:00 Baseline Reading
3:19 Treatment Plan
5:37 Hanging Panels
7:40 Mounting on Ceiling
9:24 Fire Test
10:15 Pricing
10:45 Second Test
12:16 Color Inconsistency
12:56 Third Test/Conclusion
15:50 Outro - Věda a technologie
Linus: Thanks for the free stuff.
Also Linus: We'll eventually be your competitor.
First reply poggers
second
third
You see, the race now is to be brighter and more ingenious than Gamers Nexus and LMG
It's a hard bill to fill
Linus is Shi Feng confirmed.
Oh boy, my degree finally comes in handy, and I can be one of THOSE CZcams commenters. Reverb is not created by standing waves. Standing waves and reverb are different things that are both caused by sound reflecting off walls. Standing waves affect the tone of the sounds in the room, they do this by either amplifying or canceling out certain frequencies inside the room, the specific frequencies that get boosted/cancelled are determined by the dimensions of the room.
Reverb is just a sound reflecting around the room, and since it takes time for the sound to move through the room you hear the same sound multiple times from it reflecting off different surfaces
Absolutely correct, thought the same. Standing waves also cause a ringing sound at specific wave lengths (fractions of the dimensions of the room) that can stay way longer than the reverb
Thank you! Was thinking the same thing!
Was gonna make this exact comment, glad someone got to it before I did haha
@@Punkschorsch Maybe that's why sometimes people hear a high pitched sound in their ears.
True. I would add that this treatment does help a bit against standing waves because of how many times the sound waves will have to go through the foam and lose energy. Plus the foam surface is not flat, but angled in different directions, so that helps by deviating waves through refraction, though I wouldn't expect it to do much for bass frequencies, and maybe even mids
Hey Linus, I'm a professional acoustician and long time fan! Some other comments have pointed out that reverb isn't caused by standing waves, and that there are cheaper, better performing options like Rockwool. These aren't wrong, but I wanted to praise how you did the video. You're doing the right measurements, with the right equipment, and (generally) using it correctly (that mic really shouldn't be sat on the table, it should be on a stand away from flat surfaces). That's so much better than what I see from a lot of other non-acoustics people talking about this stuff!
Also, while Rockwool or those specialist acoustic panels would be more effective *acoustically*, panels like these serve their purpose really well. As you pointed out, your measurements are showing noticeable improvements right in your speaking frequencies, but not below 300 Hz. For streamers at home, that's exactly what they need! And they need the panels to be unobtrusive and look nice. If these were thicker, more industrial looking, or handbuilt, they wouldn't work for that use case and people would just be less likely to put anything up. In a general vocal recording setup, not a music recording or playback room, under 300 Hz just isn't really that crucial.
For this room, I'd probably add some bass traps in the corners if you wanted, since you guys have the money and space, but it really does show how much better recorded audio can be with just some pretty simple and nice looking panels.
Its a #ad like ALL of the videos from LTT right now.
What is a bass trap? Is it to minimalize low frequency reverberation? And if so would it be more effective in a smaller dimension area as opposed to larger?
Thank you for your comment, what is the "cheaper, better performing options like Rockwool"?
@@OnTheLeftHandSide Search up bass traps. Note, however, that for them to be actually effective at trapping bass and reducing standing waves, they require more room than something you can hang on your wall. Usually they're quite thick.
gotta say it in a positive light otherwise you'll anger the masses huh
lol
Linus, you lied to us.
You did not say "this" only once.
I counted, you solely said "this" 26 times.
However I'm considering the one at 4:35 to be a "this" despite it being a bit sketchy. *
Also if we count everyone else's times, it only goes to 27.
A damn shame Linus, can't believe you lied to us 25 times...
* EDIT: In-house Closed Captioning claims it's "the software" and not "this software" at 4:35, so it seems everyone's in on your filthy scheme... But I will concede and not count it anymore, and shall edit the numbers according.
You can hear the audio get better as the video goes!!!
I watched on my phone and I could even tell - pretty neat!
The one
The only
The true AnthonyCSN!
There is some background music that is straight up taken from horror movie
@ 8:49 Linus, Covid Coughin'
What did the Casket say to the other Casket?....Was that you COFFIN?!! {0.o}
😆😂🤣
🤣
If you haven’t got the patience to wait for the release of LTT’s official acoustic panels, just buy a whole bunch of the Linus plushies and mount them on your walls.
they'll be out before I can save up the equipement to make a studio anyways so Idc
That would actually work pretty well! Bedroom music producer budget tips include if you have lots of clothes hanging in your closet, just open the closet doors. Makes a huge difference and costs zero!
You missed something: The "You're welcome" to Linus.
My best friend runs a recording studio. What he did was email Auralex, said he was building a studio with specific dimensions (he wasn't), and asked for the CAD design for his "builder". Then he turned around and gave the CAD design to a local foam cutting place, who gave him the same as the Auralex for way way way cheaper. Sure, it's a lie, but saved him loads of money.
I just posted that he should buy a bunch of swedish Tempur-Pedic mattresses, either way you save money.. but now I keep thinking about the idea of sleeping horizontally somehow, maybe Nvidia has some anti-gravity tech shit, maybe the steam deck 2.0 paves the way for it so they can beef it up while keeping it light... some sort of collaboration with the guy who made s mod, it's a gravity gun that shoots PSP discs, and runs Linux... Anything and everything that is pro gamer immediately is just fucking starting to make me vomit on the inside the moment I see or hear it.. and it's not just from epilepsy from the Skittle strobes everybody puts on their shit... Can you imagine paying $200 for half a keyboard back in the 2000s, when g15 was one of the most expensive peripherals you can buy at 80 bucks, and had 18 extra keys and a screen for your trouble... What really cracks me up as all these pro peripherals in the esports, is just Counter-Strike which is a hit scan on a tiny map that people play over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.. and people figured out how to buy mediocre FPS banana skins, and turned it into a fucking auction site, good God,this is why I never wear brand named clothing, why would I spend obscenely more money to advertise for somebody else just to fit in, same shit I figure.. you know got to be cool got to be hip got to be a hip streamer with your fucking unstrategically placed foam pads that really don't do shit, with your $600 professional microphone with a boom arm, and you know as is the streamer way of course that microphone is covering your face 99% of the time cuz you got to show off the boom arm right...
I got to stop this is just going to keep going... I am so old, and I wish I weren't okay with it but, fuck me this is why we can't have nice things I guess, at least nice things for affordable prices that aren't pieces of shit that vomit seizure Skittle blasts at random intervals, looking at you gigabyte what the fuck is wrong with your keyboards.. how did you make it so that they couldn't even light up in a in a useful way?
This was definitely a fun run through and test, etc. -- but for big spaces like this the best and most cost-effective solution would have been a few rockwool panels rather than these everywhere, but if you have them, you have them!
Also as the first one to mount them on ceiling in video - they WILL fall eventually, but adhesive will mostly keep them in place.
Rockwool panels are how I made my sound absorption panels. Built a frame out of 1x4s (same size as the rockwool panel), then put fabric over them to clean up the look. NOTHING works better than Rockwool. I do like the design of these ones in the video though.
Didn't he specifically mention at the end how rockwool would have been the most cost effective solution?
If you are an artistic type, or you know someone who is then you can get uncut acoustic level foam for pretty cheap and then just cut it yourself. the other downside is you generally have to put nail holes in your walls
Some other guy said to use walmart cheap towels 4 dollars per panel lmao
They are most certainly not cost effective. You can get just as good panels for less than half the price of these things. Elgato is scamming people with the classic, add "gamer" to the name and then up the price 10 fold.
I wasn't expecting for these panels to be that good.
I have professional sound panels, but will probably give these a try on different rooms, especially for the lower cost.
Yes a computer tech channel is the best place to get your info on soundproofing on a budget. Try looking elsewhere first.
Basotect (open bubble high density foam) could achieve massive results. For a studio environment I would recommend both, thicker panels and an air gap behind the panel. Other than that - compared to rockwool with its approx 40 pa/s/m2 you probably need 30-40 % less material for the same results on reflections in the mids and highs. Sadly I can't recommend Basotect for your bass area, at least not in those shapes and thicknesses. They're velocity traps so you still need the well known enormous amounts of material to control lower mids and bass.
_"..., especially for the lower cost."_ 100.- for 1m² is considered low!?
It's not a lower cost though; it's $100 for each individual box, not for the whole room. It's just as ridiculously overpriced as all of Elgato's other products are.
Maybe in comparison to your professional panels they have a slightly lower cost, but generally for audio foam it's very overpriced
Linus: "How far can you go before I tell you about our sponsor"
As far as the right arrow key will take me.
LOL
@Not RickRoII👇😍 mmm
@@DemeDemetre same
LMFAO
pros use the L key
"you can hear the difference in how those sounds"
I, using my entry level smartphone speakers while doing the dishes, surely cannot
I laughed cause I use to watch him in my phone while doing the dishes too!!
the best way to watch youtube videos, while doing dishes
@@joaquinneis brb, mounting tablet above sink.
Brb, loading up youtube on my TV so i can watch from my sink
I literally just did this watching a GN video👍
Linus: 3:34 "Remember to carry the 1..."
Also Linus: *Still totally fucks up the calculation*
Did they edit it?
Was going to say the same thing.
@@destituteanddecadent9106 ??? No? It's still wrong mate.
@@Thunterise I meant I couldn't find the quote in the video.
It should have been 3330 not 3530
Linus forgetting how to carry the 1 on camera is a very relatable moment lol 🤣
lol
omg hi kairos
Hi FAKE KAIROS , didn't expect to see you here
@@sunnymishra1057 lmfao
when the brawl stars community makes its way to linus tech tips
Watching him show that 3 clipped together is better all I could think was “hexagon is the bestagon”
Imagine someone's name in the office is Tiffany
I applaud you sirs.
@@khristopherkomodoensis4734 oh boy I sure hope no dead person fucks up my life today. again.
We've all entered a Grey area! Hello fellow tumbleweeds!
Haha, yes. I've contracted that mind virus as well!
I went to order some of those but I can see why they're out of stock. They gave LTT their entire stock 🤣🤣🤣 Thanks Linus
LTT Like
That's an honor
Hahaha lol! There’s heaps of other people who do these types of panels anyway sure you’ll find something
You probably got some a long time ago, but if you didn't and still want some please don't buy elgato panels. I mean you can if you have the money, just be aware they're a good bit overpriced
imagine having so much confidence in your business that you positively review products you will soon compete with.
I see you LTT, I see you.
Quick tip from a 3rd gen audio engineer: Some of the tightest sounding panels I ever heard (or didn't hear really) were made with the ultra cheap towels from Walmart. They were about 4 bucks per panel.
I've heard towels are effective, say, what towel fabric works best? Like 100% cotton? Cheapest I've seen are rather synthetic fabric (We don't have Walmart here in Bulgaria :))
@@batyanko8283 The one with the most little hairs on it is the best.
Quick question what do you mean with sounding the tightest?
@@mrclean3088 In this context, tight usually refers to a sound without reverb or echo. Rather than striking a hard surface and bouncing back to the listener, the sound waves are deadened by energy absorbent or redirecting materials. It also can refer to two or more instruments that are struck simultaneously rather than slightly off-beat to one another (though I don't believe Hash Tagger intended it this way).
Best soundproofing on the cheap is a closet full of clothes
"since you are doing this only once" while it feels like LTT became more about Linus moving to a new house or Office every 3 months or so, doing all the cables, smart home and A/C and then moving again :D
this is how you should treat every client you do a job for.
@@T2Master01 making the quality as if they're not going to change it but with the compatibility as if they're going to change it next year?
Linus slowly fixing all of Canada’s infrastructure one office building at a time
well from a business man's prospective he is building up his net worth lol, it's smarter to buy houses, revenue and rent/sale or keep from your children than piling your money
I clicked for some sound panel memes, was not disappointed when Linus immediately scaled box mountain.
Yep
@Joe Biju Spoilers, man. 😂
🤣
The plastic frames will reverberate. Just sayin' {0.o}
😆😂🤣
@ 8:49 Linus, Covid Coughin'
What did the Casket say to the other Casket?.......Was that you COFFIN?!! {0.o}
😆😂🤣
I made some panels with 1x1 wood frames and geometric fabric with “eco” insulation. I put up 3 panels to target the major sources of reflection and the stairwell. It really changed the whole sound signature and I only paid about $60 for the materials.
Plus you can pick some pretty cool fabrics and get a neat functional wall hanging.
That's what I was thinking... At $100 per m2 for these, I suspect you could go with a less sound-absorbent material and ultimately get similar results for a fraction of the price (by covering a higher percentage of the walls)
@Phoenix 𝙾𝚙𝚎𝚗 𝙼𝚢 PROFILE well done you copped someone else's comment
@@ericrosen6626 you can but rockwool or other types of insulation would be much better acousticly than the cheap foam panels in this video
I've A/B'd these things in my home recording studio against the types of panels filled with Rockwool (similar commercial product to GIK Acoustics) and the rockwool products outperform them by miles and the rockwool panels are cheaper per square meter of coverage. Guys, there's a reason that all recording studios, cinemas, news and television stations and so many other applications use the traditional acoustic panels. They simply outperform these foam pads and they are cheaper than these foam pads. Broad band bass traps in each corner is usually the recommended first step then add panels to the walls as needed from there. If you are doing acoustic panels, please DO NOT release foam pads. These things are a plague and just don't work well enough. BTW, that Auralex kit is considered a bit of a joke among professional applications.
Not all streamers stream from a cinema or recording studio though. And a lot of streamers will be streaming from a room they also sleep in. These panels are great for that application where cosmetics are more important than in commercial and functional rooms. Also the smell rockwool can develop is not something I'd personally like to experience in my slumber although it would make counting sheep to fall asleep more realistic.
this may be, but the fact that Linus' 2100,-$ investment did both improve the sound and aesthetics in this workshop remains.
I guess it's a difference if you're tackling only spoken words or if you plan for action movies and music.
You're the pros, you'll know it. Anything with design is way worse in its expense-to-functionality index than something just made to work.
I'd consider those panels at a Doctors Office with particular blank walls.
My only concern is the hygienic side.
You obviously need foamy stuff for maximum surface to absorb sound, which I imagine might be a pain to be kept germ free...
Also, mounting these off the wall by an inch would massively increase performance in low end frequencies, something that they start to plateau out in pretty quickly during the testing. I've seen a lot of people say "Rockwool is more porous" and while that's generally true, the way rockwool panels are generally mounted several inches away from the reflective surface is going to affect performance far more than the differences in material.
You didn't pay attention did you? The purpose was to remove the reverb in the Vocal range. And they did that wonderfully. And then there are these issues. Protective gear must be worn when installing mineral wool insulation: the tiny slivers will lodge in skin and are small enough to be inhaled. Inhaled slivers of mineral wool irritate the alveoli and can cause lung disease.There is some data which suggests mineral wool slivers in the lungs may cause cancer, by slicing DNA and causing cell mutation, in the same way as fiberglass.
They did the job well enough for a decent enough price (making a video about them in this case, but the price to consumers is decent too), did they not?
Believe it or not: 1. multiple products can exist on the market at the same time 2. not everyone who wants sound dampening needs to have exacting professional levels.
“Hexagons are the bestagons” -CGP Grey, 2020
Sorry, but I'll be that guy: *Grey
@Vanesha Angel begone, bot
"Never argue with Bee Engineers" - P Gray, 2021
You know why? Because Hexagon is Strongagon!
This might be the first time Linus carried the one, but I am sure he dropped it a couple times.
He carried the one, but he dropped the two.
He definitely dropped it at least once.
dropped the two off camera.
why you think they bought so many??
He dropped the one in the wrong column and counted it twice. Should be 3330 not 3530.
I remember from my music production / engineering days that beyond 1/3 coverage you get diminishing returns with the amount of absorption. And you want to try absorb where sound will make its first bounce (i.e. where a speaker is going to send sound to the wall first), if you can kill it’s energy there it has less to spend on reaching the rest of the room for more bounces.
basically why back in the day sound halls hired "golden ears" to find most of the worst places....only to cover great looking wood, or what ever...with fucking ugly gaudy drapes.
First reflection point is what it's called. You can find them with a mirror and a friend.
Thanks for this. I heard one sound guy say that you have to cover at least 80% of a room's (hall's) surface to get ideal absorption. I don't know why he said that.
As an audio engineer, this video is fascinating. I really wish more public spaces had some sort of acoustic control, but most people don't really understand how big of a difference just a little bit can make. Your video also has more scientific testing than the videos I've seen aimed at musicians. Hopefully this can bring more awareness to the general population about acoustic treatment
Well, do you have a link to some sensible stuff one could do at home?
Linus: "There's some inconsistency in the color of the foam"
Elgato: "That's an RGB feature! The more colors, the better the performance"
Ok but like if they were RGB that would legit be pretty cool to be fair.
@@zyeborm No, that would be horrendous. Begone, disco lights...
50 shades of grey 😏😏😏
@@a10warthog4 you can have any colour so long as it's grey?
Can we take a moment and discuses how much respect for his employees Linus has? James "Just do the best you can" That's not something you see everyday in a boss/employee situation. Linus defers to people who actually know more then him in many situations. I love it.
He's like the opposite of Ellen Degeneres.
@@slowanddeliberate6893 without pretending he's something he's not too.
He really is dope lol he's like the Canadian Shasta cola version of Elon musk
That's probably a Canadian thing
He's a great leader. It's a no brainer why he's done so well for himself.
This is a very expensive way to cut down on reflections. The biggest factor is large flat, hard surfaces that are parallel. You can make cheap wall mounted diffusers that break up these surfaces, and simple bass traps in the corners to control boominess. Hang some from the ceiling too if you want to go further. These thin foam diffusers are always super expensive and only moderately effective. Use them to even out a small recording zone, but using them to treat a whole room is madness.
I need to hear more of Linus singing. What a beautiful falsetto!
As an engineer I'd like to say, that the color difference between panels is a "design feature."
😂😂😭😭
ah yes my 130 dollar foam and plastic also comes in multi colour lets go
@@hawkshot1025 There's really no excuse for them to be this cheap when they're charging so much
@@XRebelRenegadeX No these panels are cheap for how good they work compared to all the others, remember it was 2,100 for 210 of them most people are just getting them for a small room and it would be very cost effective for the results you get
@@Pringlebox For a ready-made solution yes these probably won't break the bank and there is worse on the market but they are still overpriced for the quality of the product imo
The wavelength a panel can absorb is directly related to its thickness. Location also makes a huge difference in terms of absorbing mid and low frequency energy. You probably want to add some big thick bass traps to the power corners of the room (ceiling/wall corners and floor/wall corners). I am happy with the panels I got from ATS Acoustics - you can also have them print custom images/pictures onto the front of them so they look like wall art vs. acoustic panels. EDIT: Fundamental tone for male voice is around 100-120hz which is definitely in the range for corner bass traps.
Yeah. There's no point adding panels to places where the sound won't bounce off as much
Well they don't have bass in their videos.
I would assume ceiling corners are even worse since you usually don‘t have furniture on the ceiling.
you can also DIY some rockwool panels for 10% of the cost of those ATS ones, that will even perform slightly better along the spectrum if you pick the right rockwool type. 200$ (or 150$ i'm not sure its been a few years) made me about 24 panels. it's also really fcking easy to do.
Thickness can be replaced by micro etching to absorb and distill soaking more per inch than others.
I have been in the sound business for over 40 years. Acoustic treatment is best used at ear level on one of two parallel walls to conserve funds. Ceilings other than acoustic tile is generally not a prime control surface. A high reverb time rt60 is not very addressable electronically. I think your video does a good job of demonstrating that . Thanks to this one
what have you done for 40 years in sound, specifically? I am thinking of starting a sound treatment /acoustic panel business, making panels and ordering other products and doing installs and sales. any tips or advice would be appreciated
Linus I’m so glad you didn’t Retire when you was thinking about it i know you will eventually but man I’ve learned so much from you from cell phones to building pc’s I know people give you a hard time but I think you know a lot and have plenty of knowledge to give out.
Linus asking an employee if he's ready to catch a light box is heartwarming.
it still probably was a huge safety code violation, manners aside
@@MiloTheFirst1 I'm in the US so maybe Canada is different, but I've never heard of this being a safety violation as long as all parties are aware of what is going on and are throwing/catching the boxes appropriately. When I worked in a warehouse distributing cases of wine and spirits we would often throw cases from a pallet to someone near the conveyor rather than running the cases back and forth. At the end of the day, throwing the cases was easier on our bodies and safer than running between the conveyor and the pallet.
@@lyrebird712 nah its more than likely something the employee could sue over if he got injured even though there's not a shot in hell it could actually hurt him
Don't forget that even a relatively light object could hurt if it fell just wrong such as it hitting someone in the nose or a single corner of the box hitting alone.
« James !»
-Jesus!
4:20
8:30
The workshop is so cool
how are you verified lmao
Yo rip remember me what up
My boi
@@feliciaalexis______5339
Hevesli Arapça Meşhed 💥💥💥❤️
czcams.com/video/k8NPG77wOEA/video.html
@@impyrth bought his account
It not only make the sound really better, but also make that area look like children's playroom. Amazing!
For podcasters, streamers, musicians, and bedroom producers, this is probably the most important and relevant video you've released in a while. Incredible results! A little goes a long way. The room should sound controlled, not dead. Great work!
I just got rockwool panels for my home studio, the difference is incredible. I got thick dense ones and even without a bass trap there’s a lot more clarity on drums and bass. Every content creator or just anyone that enjoys listening to music and movies through speakers should look into acoustic treatment
Yeah when I was talking about music though that's complicated as fuck cuz your room bounces is part of that, you kind of got to chamber it up really I can't think of the nightmare of trying to set speakers up in a room with no bounce, I'm a little spoiled though the first time I set up my surround floor standing speakers set, the acoustics in the main room just happened to be perfect, I've never been able to get it back LOL. Also, if you're familiar with Washington Des Moines is basically right next to the airport that's the main airport for Seattle.. my buddy ended up trying to build a sound booth, and more or less succeeded with the overall goal being to somehow not be interrupted by the low flying airplanes.
the last part wasn't a total success, there's just there's only so much you can do but going in from the ground up with layers of sheetrock soundboard sheetrock and then the actual Booth construction etc.. and he had originally had hired somebody to do it, and they cut the board in quarters cuz they're retarded that's the only reason I can think of anyways.. I don't see why you would do that just in general but for soundboard so we ended up having to I think we ended up having to redo two different people's work eventually.. which is kind of a common theme for him, he really is the nicest guy he really does see the absolute best in people...
Ended up spending the night in the booth, most disturbing night I've ever had, for anybody that's bothered by small noises or any slight disturbance at night, so much worse is the complete absence of sound LOL, it's like you're in a fucking black hole or void or something like that, so weird.
Easy af to make too!
Even if you dont want to get stuff like that... just hanging things off the walls does a lot also.
Yeah just don't over do it in a small room. Things can start to sound dead. Bass traps and a few panels on walls can fix all of the reverb issues but leave some character.
yup, your room is 60% of sound quality imo
As a professional sound engineer. Those panels are good for the frequencies in the voice, but in high end studio and home theater applications, we are more concerned with even absorption along the entire frequency response.
Plus, they could've actually studied the room and placed the absorbers better and get better improvement out of their 5.9% coverage. He should've placed the mic on the area where the mics would normally be and measure from there.
Imagine how much more effective if they did DIY Rockwool panels...
They don't want to sound proof the workshop, they just want voices to be clearer when they shoot in it, mission accomplish. And Elgato is selling it for streamers' home studios, not home theaters or professional recording studios.
Sure they could have done the technical approach in order to get the best results but I'm sure they got better things to do with the time that would have taken, and winging it seemed to make a decent improvement that you could hear in the end recording.
He did say its good for the range they care about
Would highly suggest that you guys look into diy-ing your own sound panels. The solution from Elgato is fairly elegant, but also very expensive considering the price/performance ratio that homemade sound panels can offer.
Also, mounting these on standoffs, even a half an inch to an inch of distance would make a MASSIVE difference in the performance of these things. Very surprised Elgato didn't take that into account with their mounting system.
Any pointers to more information on how do make your own sound panels?
@@pand1024 tech ingredients has a whole series on sound in general, and I think a few on sound panels.
You can get a surprising amount of effect by just hanging some curtains. Doesn't matter if there's a window or not, the fabric will absorb a lot of sound that the walls would bounce back instead.
nice videos on DIY panels from TechIngridiends
czcams.com/video/jjZHFIdfUFk/video.html
czcams.com/video/fqodnHxRJ7c/video.html
the diffrence in color is due to the pressure in the packing , when you get acoustic pads you need to submerge them in water , let them dry about 48 hours then the color should be the same.
talking from expreince i have a studio
Linus: The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog
The Letter S: Am I a joke to you?
How about Ö Ä Å
@@Tupsuu those letters are not part of the english alphabet
@@2911oscar well duh
@@Tupsuu then why are you replying?
@@0x8badf00d hell naw
For comparison purposes.
First audio test: 2:15
Second audio test: 10:51
Third audio test: 13:29
You're welcome
Thanks a mil!
@@evoxdota2273 🙌
thats pretty awesome to hear the difference as the video goes on
Love seeing sound treating videos from Linus so dope!
From personal experience in doing this a few times, generally 10% of wall surface area is the least amount to get the most significant change. 25% is the sweet spot for very good acoustic treatment and going beyond that you'll start to get diminishing results for the cost. Good video overall!
yup and unless your running machines or music the ceiling rarely needs any especially a high ceiling like that one ..
Are cheap panels good? I found in stores like Aliexpress, panels with 2.5cm or 5cm thick much cheaper than you usually see.
@@Guihvk honestly, they're shockingly good for reducing flutter echo and shouldn't be dismissed. Are they going to perform quite as well as a higher end product, no. But you have to factor in that a ton of the cost of higher end products isn't actually to the foam, and that the cheap ones are so much cheaper that you can spend half as much and get twice as much coverage at the same time.
I have a room with 100% coverage, it is ridiculous. You can play metal of the heaviest kind in a tiny space and still distinguish each musician's sounds perfectly (in normal practice rooms all you hear is chaos)
@@Guihvk something that few people mention is how resistant to time the foam is. Some will crumble away in a few years, others will last longer. I had a room fully fitted with a strange extrusion of recycled PET plastic from bottles and 13 years after it still holds strong, though it has lost some fibers.
These really make the place look a lot more eye-appealing, and that sound difference testing was really cool to see in action. Thank you very much for this!
"The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog."
You're missing an S there, pal.
The sound from that speaker was just so pleasing and satisfying ooo I feel satisfied after hearing that
I can't be the only one that thought, watching Linus climb... "If a Linus falls is he dropping himself?".
Yes
it's literally the same question as if you have a dog will it bark lol
Congratulations! You have reached the next level of LinusDropTips™️: The Game.
a Philosophy debate for the ages
That's exactly what I thought as he climbed up there
3:40
And the one time he does on camera, he carries the one to the wrong digit, that math is wrong xD
It's 3330, pretty sure he wrote 3530 by adding 1+2+6+6
yeap
@@Brainiaccccc CZcams thinks your comment is in another language. But then it translated it to the exact same thing.
@@ZipplyZane I wrote it with non English layout, maybe that's the reason. Though letters are exactly the same (latin)
That bothered me a lot lol although I hate maths...
I was about to say "please don't tell me they're just going to throw foam on the walls", and then you took a reading of the room. Nice job!
The music playing during the third test/conclusion is so UK garage and I love it!
It should be criminal how many years Linus kept his face baby smooth considering how glorious his beard is
In the old sound tech days they used to have "reverberation panels" in sound studios, where you'd draw out a sheet of differing material to either dampen or sharpen accoustics in a booth depending on what you were trying to filter/pass-through.
Manual compression?! That's dedication!
"where do you put your compressor, in your line?"
>before the microphone...
still do, me and some friends just made a bunch out of old pallets and insulation
@@loser-nobody Compressor goes on the wall, where else?
As expected, those did nothing to affect the room below 250Hz. While that region was not an issue for your larger room, in small rooms it will not work as well. DIY for thicker panels held a few inches off the wall will treat lower in frequency, as well as spanning corners.
It's honestly amazing how much difference those panels made😳
Elgato : "send tons of audio panels"
literally Linus : "thanks to our sponsor,jackery"
elgato: *crying cat thumbs up meme*
"corsair did a great job"
Why would they bother sponsoring the video? Sponsoring a video gets you a 15 second blurb, Elgato got an entire video dedicated to their product.
also suddenly corsair got shout-out HAHAHA
@@PakAtan__ Because owner
I'm really surprised by how fire resistant they are!
if the can survive a blowtorch then they should be good for a regular fire too.
many of them are fine up to around 300 celcius or a bit more. They are pretty good heath insulators as well. Thats why alot of heath insulators are used in home cinemas as well. They burst of heat was not long enough. you should be able to get it to burn with a blowtorch but its hard to do. All together there are very few szenarios where those are really a problem or become a fire hazzard. Most likely something else will start the fire long before those panels would. But those panels are only good for frequcies down into voice levels. Those wont help with base, like at all. they are way to thin, also they seem pretty solid. You need soft squishy and thicc material to absorb base. So those are good for recording and can be used in home cinema but not alone. they would make your sound very imbalanced and colour your sound. Home cinema is a pretty complicated topic, iam curious about what linus will do for his. i expect total failure to be honest but maybe i will be pleasently surprised.
The Station nightclub in Rhode Island was "soundproofed" with the wrong kind of foam (the kind that's used as shipping material), and they lit off pyrotechnics into it. It easily caught fire, which spread like crazy, melting foam rained from the ceiling like napalm, and the building was fully engulfed within a minute. Tragically, 100 people lost their lives.
That's why acoustic foam has to be so flame-resistant.
@@needfuldoer4531 Its also why doors are now mandated to open outwards, because everyone bunched up against the doors and couldn't open them.
They also did a brilliant job covering Linus' voice in the 1500-2000 Hz range
Can't wait for more audio treatment vids, something you guys haven't tapped into too much yet!
As an audio engineer, watching folks work through the treatment process was actually really entertaining. Not a bad job overall. You did well to target large walls and spaces.
Also, while these panels are great for absorption, refraction is also a key component to consider, depending on your needs and the regular recording orientation. All in all, treatment is treatment, and because of the practical application, these will help with high frequency absorption, negating a lot of the reflections. Good job.
Man’s making his workshop more camera and microphone friendly… A workshop, good Lord!
@@namantherockstar shush
I was thinking, isn't this a huge health hazard? Placing flammable foam next to lasers cutter and flying hot metal chips?
@@altersami9660 did you not see him try burn one with a flamethrower
@@altersami9660 Laughs in Blowtorch.
@@LizordSword Oh, you're right. That was 2 minute in after I posted my comment.
1:12 camera, lighting, and post are on point. how is it possible to even make a shot with a light like that look so good wtf
I love how he couldn't say "I'm fine", but continues to speak perfectly to plug his merch lol
1. Reverb is a form of echo. When people say "echo" they typically mean "delay" (discrete repititions) whereas when people say "reverb" they refer to non-discrete repetitions.
But the application terminology is that echo refers to both delay and reverb.
2. Standing waves are a seperate, resulting function of reverb, but are their own issue
3. While post processing CAN be used to dampen reverb, the only way to do this without causing noticeable quality loss (which will be ESPECIALLY noticeable if all you have is a vocal recording) is to manually ride the volume faders.
In any case, I'm really glad you guys didn't confuse acoustic treatment for "soundproofing" as everyone else does.
Room acoustics are immensely complex and there's a TON of further reading one can do, and I recommend Bobby Owinski, who happens to be one of the best acousticians in the industry
Well said :)
Linus as a 22 year old climbing a stack of boxes.
"Haha i hope you fall and break stuff"
Linus as a 35 year old dad.
"Nooo you'll break something!"
I'm convinced. I have a small room where I do my videos but I think three packs would be all I need. Thanks, guys.
seeing a visualization for was really cool. elgato did a great job targeting the vocal range.
0:32 Linus is so lucky that he's light, If I were to have hopped onto those boxes I would have cowabunga'd right through them.
Could you get up there?
@@ToTheGAMES Not even up the first box.
"I'm only going to say this once..."
hehe _replays video_
woosh
@@ozigoranov Fine I'll only replay the parts where his voice isn't echoing.
Mad respect for shouting out someone else's product while simultaneously planning on releasing your own!
The main difference with the kit you looked at is that it had corner prices of foam to use as bass traps
Me: Stapling cheap towels to the wall while watching Linus spend hundreds of dollars on acoustic panels.
he spending? lol. you have no idea how this works. he wins free stuff to complain about capitalism latter
Thousands* 😂
@@matthewk320 Ok comrade, have a wodka and calm down.
Towels won't do much. But you can get decent acoustic treatment on zero budget. Mattresses, duvets, pillows, removal blankets, and rock-wool insulation are all very effective.
@@iAmTheSquidThing towels if collided correctly in a condensed area will work
TY Serge, the real champion of this one
its such a big difference i could tell without listening back to back to the quick brown fox tests but when i do its even more pronounced
Linus: I'm only going to say this once...
Me re-watching the video: *I am four parallel universes ahead of you*
This person above me doesn’t know what stop means
Like if you agree
Gallium-Gonzollium Yeah, these bots are gettin’ outta control.
@Not RickRoII👇😍 say nothing if you are a bot
@Vanesha Angel say nothing if you are a bot
somebody should've yelled "parkour" when linus was jumping down
I could be wrong but having been in a few different large music related rooms including concert halls and large orchestra practice rooms I can say with a fair degree of confidence that while you need panels all over, having panels in the corners is quite important. IIRC the reasoning is that corners give a place for sound to bounce more than once.
in a fancy conference room in my university there is a massive like 4 by 3 meters artwork made specially to reduce reverb, it works awesome and looks even better.
I'm extremely curious to know what the raw material cost of these panels is, actually I would want to know this for any foam that is used for sound deadening/damping. Because to me any of these seem to be extremely expensive for a piece of foam or 2 pieces glued together. Yea obviously it is not your everyday foam (probably open-cell type stuff), but still the production process will be similar and automated and the raw materials can't differ that much.
I'm not looking for the usual "it's professional" or "it's the research cost" arguments. I actually want to know in-depth how the processing of raw materials during the production differs, and how that affects price.
@Vanesha Angel very informative, thanks
These panels are insanely over priced, just get basic square tiles off Amazon and get 5 times more surface area for the same price.
It's an Elgato product, the answer you're looking for should be fairly obvious. The shit is overpriced by a mile. You're actually paying for 6 letters. E L G A T O
For these types of products the base cost of materials is very low, and the only real determining factor is the total amount produced. So if you only expect to sell let's say a million of these, and that is what you base your production run on, tooling costs for the plastic parts, setting up a production hall for the run etc. are divided over the million units sold. If they expected to sell ten million those same costs would be a lot lower per unit. So the reason niche products are expensive is the expected low sales.
And of course if you have a niche product it's easy to make it more expensive because you don't have an option to buy it elsewhere.
But if you're talking raw material costs, just the actual plastics and metals before shaping etc. Is only a few cents per unit.
You know what grinds my gears? He says "the quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog". It's "jumps". It must be, otherwise there is no S in the sentence.
My people.
Alternatively you can say "The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy DOGS." Making the dog plural adds the S back in. :)
Though the use here is sonic; the z provides that phoneme. While others are surely missing 🤓
This is true, but at least the 'x' gives you the same resonant sound as the 's' would have done.
Alternatively you can say "The quickest brownest foxes jumped over the laziest dog"
I opted for the much cheaper basic square acoustic panels & they work wonderfully great!
You can see them in the background of some of my newer videos, here on CZcams.
The difference, especially on the shotgun mic was incredible. Great work elgato
My high school had a great hall with acoustic foam in the ceiling, in orange I think. Then some genius decided the ceiling should be blue and it got painted over with plastic paint. It was impossible to hear anything in there afterwards...
is that... good?
No
This is dope! I love when you guys do testing and actually see results for everything. This also gives ideas for streaming setups and many other things.
dope LOL
I couldn't tell there was an echo before I watched this video, and now it drives me crazy. Good thing it was fixed during the making of this video
Possibly one of the most clever titles for a CZcams video I have ever seen.
Just for info: What you are talking about and measuring is the reverberation time (you can even see the graph legend, RT60, which is the time it takes for the source to reduce the level by 60 dB after it has been turned off), that is not the same as a standing wave. Standing waves in the context of rooms is usually a low frequency phenomena, and less of a problem in bigger rooms like this than in smaller rooms.
Linus never let his ignorance get in the way of him making a video pretending to be an expert.
@@charlesmcguffy You know that there is a whole team of writers researching the topic and writing script? Linus aint the only one making mistakes but he is basically the only one presenting it (as he is the face of this channel).
A good example is when you first move into an apartment, but the same basic concept is being applied here.
Hard surfaces bad. 🤣
RT60 is the time it takes a noise to decay by 60db SPL.
@Phill J Phase doubling is far less pronounced at higher frequencies because the shorter wavelengths make the highest amplitude of the wave much more evenly distributed, to simplify abit, there are much more peaks and crest between the edges of the walls, and that evens it out, that is also why bigger rooms have less of the problem. There is a reason the Schroeder frequency has the volume of the room as part of its formula. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist in larger roooms, but as mentioned, it is usually less of a problem in bigger rooms, just as it is usually a low frequency phenomena.
Fun fact: OSHA requirements don't apply to the owner of the business.
R-really?
I think they technically do apply, but the owner would have to sue *himself*, so practically...
@@thedanyesful I'd do it out of principle to encourage a revision and also for teh lulz. That sounds like an absolutely hilarious court case. Law students would have a field day with it.
'Your honor, the defense could not make it as they are currently occupied with other legal proceedings.'
Do OSHA requirements apply in Canada? :thinkyfas:
Insurance company: "Yeah, we're not renewing your insurance policy"
Linus: "Why not"
Insurance company: *points at Linux climbing a ton of unsecured boxes* "We watch your videos, dude, no way we're renewing THAT"
Definitely above 4ft without fall protection. Good thing OSHA doesn't apply in Canada :D (and, well, also, it's not an industrial/construction setting)
@@zinger565 Canada believes in boots, eh.
I know, I'm terrible. Leave me to my devices please.
and purposefully trying to set foam on fire
First off, great video idea! Looks like a pretty good result too.
Now I'm wondering if you could get an expert to talk to us about the limits of acoustic paneling so we have a better context for the improvement.
Whoever wrote that title "I'm only going to say this once" deserves a pay raise 😂
I don't get it
@@nate-ox5lw no echo...
Linus actually saying "the quick fox jumped over the lazy dog" out loud amused me.
Someone should invent a phrase that has every English phoneme in, for situations like this. Every letter is fine but that's more for writing not audio.
@@RichardBarclay True, but I think here he said it mostly just because every Windows user (at least) would recognize the sentence.
Love the Home Improvement's reference
I was struggeling to make out the best price to efficiency ratio with these kind of sound absorbers, but your video really sold me on the Elgato Wave patterns.
I originally didn't wanna use them, as they are just so darn generic for most content creators, but now I definitely know the reason why everybody's got them. ^^
10:00 Please have Linus sing some Disney movie songs or something. I am impressed.
Edit: While wearing the costumes for the characters!
9:30 torch heat and fire heat is different, torches wont really start fires because of how hot they are they just usually burn the material while a regular fire will use the material as a fuel source.
and a stray spark isn't going to catch anything on fire
That's a load of horseshit. As long as the temperature is above the flashpoint of the material it will catch on fire. If the materials burn temp is lower than it's flashpoint then you need something else flammable in the vicinity to keep the flame going. The torch test was adequate to demonstrate that these will indeed not catch on fire randomly from sparks.
With linus' math, maybe it would be more safety if the pads had some sort of connecting IoT to say it's own area and reverb sound.
LT promoting stuff while dying is the best thing I've seen so far
I'm surprised that they stick to the ceiling without any issues! The sound difference from before and after is a huge change and I'm excited for more video with this setup.
I'm looking forward to LTT videos from the shop where some just randomly fall down :D
@@ForboJack they probably will just need a bit of blutack to get them to stay up better.