Patreon: patreon.com/newhistoryspain Ko-Fi: ko-fi.com/newhistoryspain REFERENCES: Castro, Rosario Valverde. "La condena legal de la homosexualidad masculina en el reino visigodo de Toledo." Studia Historica. Historia Antigua 38 (2020): 273-307. De la Flor Gutiérrez, Juan Carlos. Sodoma en la Edad Media. El discurso de represión de la homosexualidad entre los siglos V y XV. 2021. Universidad de Castilla-La Mancha, Bachelor’s thesis.
Do you condone all the exterminatory homophobic hate speech in the comments to your video here? Or do you just not care that violent bigots congregate here and spread their hatred?
I've fallen back in love with learning about European history recently so thank you not only for the video but for also giving us the sources to investigate if what you said is true. Cheers 🤝
I thought Spain was a strongly catholic country. Why isn’t your outlook towards such people more negative? Wouldn’t it be more objective to refer to them like you would with criminals?
Spain was imposed catholicism during a 40 year dictatorship and after it people have left most of catholics believes. Though there's still lots of traditions on Spain that come from catholicism😊
Please elaborate on what you mean. Because if I'm understanding you correctly then you're saying if Visogothic Spain was so anti-homosexual and the sources speak so unkindly of homosexuals, then he should speak as unkindly of them. However, I disagree with you there because I don't believe you have to sound like the lawmakers of that time to speak about what they implemented. I should be able to speak about anti-Jew laws in Nazi Germany without sounding like an antisemite because "that's what the sources and lawmakers said". If you are saying that he should sound homophobic because he is a Spaniard and most Spaniards are devout Catholics then I also disagree with you. Projecting your own views onto history is wrong on so many levels. Speaking as a neutral observer is often times best unless you need to clarify that what you are speaking of is truly right or wrong. Referring back to that Nazi Germany example, it would be unjust for an educator not to call the Nazis out for how evil they were. And similarly it would be unjust for the presenter to not talk about how brutal the laws were because they were.
It would make sense to relay events by supporting basic human rights What's next, we are gonna relay information on slavery "as a purely grey area"? No. It's evil.
It didn't seem like he was advocating for anything outrageous? If people think he is some kind of activist perhaps they are a bit sensitive on issues of sexuality.
This is not entirely accurate. Paganism in general is not homophobic like Abrahamic religions. Depending on the kind of Paganism in question, it can outright glorify homosexuality, especially male homosexuality.
@samuel-fg6wh At the risk of repeating myself, it depends on the kind of Pagansim in question. With Greco-Roman paganism, homosexuality was accepted as folklore. The concept of "Straight" and "Gay" did not exist as we know them in modern culture. You have to divorce yourself of many of the cultural biases you may personally have when trying to understand the ancient past.
We are talking about several Pagan religions of the Roman Empire in the 2nd and 3rd centuries, and again there was a generalized attack on sex for non-reproductive purposes.
@newhistoryspain With respect, other interpretations of the past do exist. History is a lore. It is not a science. Some interpretations of homophobia as we know it in modern times stem directly from Abrahamic religions. Again, Sir, or Ma'am; I do not wish to be rude. But there is a reason we have a difference of opinion here. I'm afraid we will have to agree to disagree
Yeah, the Greo-Roman world didn't glorify male homosexuality. It did demonize female homosexuality and praise male dominance, but only dominance. As male, if you were the "taker" in a homosexual relationship, you would be humiliated and decredulated by society as a man, and that would branch out into all corners of your life, defiling your reputation in politics, etc. Basically it was accept for men to put their sword in any sheath, but for a man to be treated as the sheath was considered effeminate. This is why great male figures in ancient times took male lovers with no fuss. But once rumors started circulating that "they didn't wear the pants in the relationship", then there would be trouble. But iirc, Germanic pagans were even more extreme by downright no accepting any sorts of homosexual behaviour.
Patreon: patreon.com/newhistoryspain
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REFERENCES:
Castro, Rosario Valverde. "La condena legal de la homosexualidad masculina en el reino visigodo de Toledo." Studia Historica. Historia Antigua 38 (2020): 273-307.
De la Flor Gutiérrez, Juan Carlos. Sodoma en la Edad Media. El discurso de represión de la homosexualidad entre los siglos V y XV. 2021. Universidad de Castilla-La Mancha, Bachelor’s thesis.
Do you condone all the exterminatory homophobic hate speech in the comments to your video here? Or do you just not care that violent bigots congregate here and spread their hatred?
This sounds like the most random subject your classmates have decided to make a presentation on
😂 i've way more random stories i could make videos about, but they probably wouldn't get many views
Informative and well-researched video. Interesting to see how seemingly quickly attitudes changed on the practice of same-sex relations.
Thank you ☺️
I've fallen back in love with learning about European history recently so thank you not only for the video but for also giving us the sources to investigate if what you said is true. Cheers 🤝
Sadly this is something that should be considered required for all history creators, but it is not common to disclose.
I thought Spain was a strongly catholic country. Why isn’t your outlook towards such people more negative? Wouldn’t it be more objective to refer to them like you would with criminals?
Spain was imposed catholicism during a 40 year dictatorship and after it people have left most of catholics believes. Though there's still lots of traditions on Spain that come from catholicism😊
Wtf do you mean
Please elaborate on what you mean. Because if I'm understanding you correctly then you're saying if Visogothic Spain was so anti-homosexual and the sources speak so unkindly of homosexuals, then he should speak as unkindly of them. However, I disagree with you there because I don't believe you have to sound like the lawmakers of that time to speak about what they implemented. I should be able to speak about anti-Jew laws in Nazi Germany without sounding like an antisemite because "that's what the sources and lawmakers said".
If you are saying that he should sound homophobic because he is a Spaniard and most Spaniards are devout Catholics then I also disagree with you. Projecting your own views onto history is wrong on so many levels. Speaking as a neutral observer is often times best unless you need to clarify that what you are speaking of is truly right or wrong. Referring back to that Nazi Germany example, it would be unjust for an educator not to call the Nazis out for how evil they were. And similarly it would be unjust for the presenter to not talk about how brutal the laws were because they were.
Jesus taught that we can hate the sin, but not the sinner.
@@remomojapelo1840 what?! So you should call out Nazi evil but not homosexual evil? What double standard is this?
Would it not make more sense to relay events without taking a side? The vast majority of people support and condone the persecution of such people.
Absolute nonsense. Gay marriage has been legal in Spain since 2005.
It would make sense to relay events by supporting basic human rights
What's next, we are gonna relay information on slavery "as a purely grey area"? No. It's evil.
It takes a great amount of either ignorance or evil to promote the castration and murder of people for simply existing. Have a blessed day.
No and no. What are you yapping about?
It didn't seem like he was advocating for anything outrageous? If people think he is some kind of activist perhaps they are a bit sensitive on issues of sexuality.
This is not entirely accurate. Paganism in general is not homophobic like Abrahamic religions. Depending on the kind of Paganism in question, it can outright glorify homosexuality, especially male homosexuality.
modern paganism sure, but history hasn’t been exactly kind to *anyone*
@samuel-fg6wh At the risk of repeating myself, it depends on the kind of Pagansim in question. With Greco-Roman paganism, homosexuality was accepted as folklore. The concept of "Straight" and "Gay" did not exist as we know them in modern culture.
You have to divorce yourself of many of the cultural biases you may personally have when trying to understand the ancient past.
We are talking about several Pagan religions of the Roman Empire in the 2nd and 3rd centuries, and again there was a generalized attack on sex for non-reproductive purposes.
@newhistoryspain With respect, other interpretations of the past do exist. History is a lore. It is not a science. Some interpretations of homophobia as we know it in modern times stem directly from Abrahamic religions.
Again, Sir, or Ma'am; I do not wish to be rude. But there is a reason we have a difference of opinion here.
I'm afraid we will have to agree to disagree
Yeah, the Greo-Roman world didn't glorify male homosexuality. It did demonize female homosexuality and praise male dominance, but only dominance. As male, if you were the "taker" in a homosexual relationship, you would be humiliated and decredulated by society as a man, and that would branch out into all corners of your life, defiling your reputation in politics, etc.
Basically it was accept for men to put their sword in any sheath, but for a man to be treated as the sheath was considered effeminate.
This is why great male figures in ancient times took male lovers with no fuss. But once rumors started circulating that "they didn't wear the pants in the relationship", then there would be trouble.
But iirc, Germanic pagans were even more extreme by downright no accepting any sorts of homosexual behaviour.
As a spanish speaker, let me suggest you improve your pronunciation cos it is v difficult to understand at times. Shame cos the rest is quite good.
Fácil de decir, difícil de hacer 😂 al menos hay subtítulos
I had no problem understanding...
@@newhistoryspainas an English only speaker. I was able to follow you okay 👍 nice video
Mejor en español!!!
Este canal está dirigido principalmente a estadounidenses y británicos, no hace falta que un español venga aquí 😂
Kewl
Get over it.
Get over what
@@scot1913 They got a bum deal....get over it !
What is this comment even trying to communicate. It’s just a part of history.