Boeing 737 MAX 8 has flight control problems | TUI fly Belgium B38M | Seattle, ATC
Vložit
- čas přidán 18. 10. 2021
- THIS VIDEO IS A RECONSTRUCTION OF THE FOLLOWING SITUATION IN FLIGHT:
14-OCT-2021. A TUI fly Belgium Boeing 737 MAX 8 (B38M), registration OO-TMZ, performing flight JAF981F / TB981F from Seattle Boeing Field International Airport, WA (USA) to Brussels (Belgium) during initial climb out of Seattle declared PAN-PAN, reported flight control problems and requested return back to Boeing Field.
PART OF TEXT VERSION OF COMMUNICATIONS THAT I'M ABLE TO INCLUDE HERE. Do you want more? Write in comments and I'll give you remaining part of text communications (Read if subtitles in video were fast):
JAF981F: Seattle Departure, good afternoon, Beauty 981F, passing 900 feet.
DEPARTURE: Beauty 981F, Seattle Departure, radar contact, climb and maintain 7000.
JAF981F: Climb and maintain 7000, Beauty 981F.
DEPARTURE: Beauty 981F, turn left heading 030, climb and maintain 9000.
JAF981F: Left turn heading 030, climb and maintain 9000, Beauty 981F.
DEPARTURE: Beauty 981F, when able cleared direct ALPSE.
JAF981F: Direct ALPSE, Beauty 981F.
DEPARTURE: Beauty 981F, climb and maintain 15000.
JAF981F: Beauty 981F, climb and maintain 15000, request to maintain 15000.
DEPARTURE: Beauty 981F, roger, maintain 15000.
JAF981F: Maintain 15000, Beauty 981F…
COMMENTS: It seems that Beauty 981F called controller but it wasn’t recorded.
DEPARTURE: Beauty 981F, did you have a question?
JAF981F: We have possible technical malfunction, maintaining 15000. Call you back with intentions, Beauty…
DEPARTURE: Roger.
DEPARTURE: Beauty 981F, amend altitude, maintain 13000.
JAF981F: Maintaining 13000, Beauty 981F.
JAF981F: PAN-PAN, PAN-PAN, PAN-PAN, Beauty 981F, we have flight control problems. We have to… Request block of airspace 2000 feet above and below 13000 feet.
DEPARTURE: Beauty 981F, roger, maintain block 11000 through 15000.
JAF981F: Maintaining block 11000 to 15000, Beauty 981F, call you back with intentions.
DEPARTURE: Beauty 981F, turn right heading 150.
JAF981F: Right 150…
DEPARTURE: Beauty 981F, turn right heading 240, vectors for traffic.
JAF981F: Right heading 240, Beauty 981F.
JAF981F: Beauty 981F, request vectors for the ILS 14R to Boeing Field.
DEPARTURE: Beauty 981F, cleared to Boeing Field via radar vectors, fly heading 180, descend and maintain 8000.
JAF981F: Left heading 180, descend and maintain 8000, vectors for Boeing Field, Beauty 981F.
JAF981F: Beauty 981F, just for information, we can maintain block of airspace 1000 feet.
DEPARTURE: Beauty 981F, say that again, please.
JAF981F: We can now maintain our altitude within 1000 feet, Beauty 981F.
DEPARTURE: Beauty 981F, roger, descend and maintain block 7000 through 9000.
JAF981F: Block 7000 to 9000, Beauty 981F.
DEPARTURE: Beauty 981F, advise when you have ATIS V.
JAF981F: We have V, Beauty 981F.
DEPARTURE: Thank you.
DEPARTURE: Beauty 981F, turn right heading 340, vector to final.
JAF981F: Right heading 340, Beauty 981F.
DEPARTURE: Beauty 981F, descend and maintain block 4000 through 6000.
JAF981F: Descending to block 4000 - 6000, Beauty 981F.
DEPARTURE: Beauty 981F, contact Approach 125.9.
------ This is maximum I can write here. Do you want more? Write in comments and I'll give you remaining part of text communications -------
THE VALUE OF THIS VIDEO:
THE MAIN VALUE IS EDUCATION. This reconstruction will be useful for actual or future air traffic controllers and pilots, people who plan to connect life with aviation, who like aviation. With help of this video reconstruction you’ll learn how to use radiotelephony rules, Aviation English language and general English language (for people whose native language is not English) in situation in flight, which was shown. THE MAIN REASON I DO THIS IS TO HELP PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND EVERY EMERGENCY SITUATION, EVERY WORD AND EVERY MOVE OF AIRCRAFT.
SOURCES OF MATERIAL, LICENSES AND PERMISSIONS:
Source of communications - www.liveatc.net/ (I have a permission (Letter) for commercial use of radio communications from LiveATC.net).
Map, aerial pictures (License (ODbL) ©OpenStreetMap -www.openstreetmap.org/copyrig...) Permission for commercial use, royalty-free use.
Radar screen (In new versions of videos) - Made by author.
Text version of communication - Made by Author.
Video editing - Made by author.
HOW I DO VIDEOS:
1) I monitor media, airspace, looking for any non-standard, emergency and interesting situation.
2) I find communications of ATC unit for the period of time I need.
3) I take only phrases between air traffic controller and selected flight.
4) I find a flight path of selected aircraft.
5) I make an animation (early couple of videos don’t have animation) of flight path and aircraft, where the aircraft goes on his route.
6) When I edit video I put phrases of communications to specific points in video (in tandem with animation).
7) Together with my comments (voice and text) I edit and make a reconstruction of emergency, non-standard and interesting situation in flight.
Wow. Can you imagine being on a brand new Max and finding out that you cannot control pitch?
Manual trim was working.
At a 737 MAX - YES!!!
It is what doomed the two planes a few years back...
I wish all controllers spoke so clearly and at such an understandable pace...
You must listen ATC conversations between UAE airlines and American ATC specially JFK it’s like a verbal fight.
WOW - i know this has little to nothing to do with MCAS - but I would normally image the corporate media would be ALL OVER this incident.
And LOVE the operator just parking it at Boeings' field - "YOU GUYS FIX YOUR SHIT"
I love this controller. Easy to understand and not an auctioneer.
👍
The flight log of this flight on FlightAware seems to show a rather sudden pitch excursion down at around 12,000 which would match what the MCAS was doing in the accident flights before.
It's called a Boeing sales-pitch...
MCAS occurred with "flaps up" with the accident aircraft... only the speed trim and high AOA exist in the FCC with flaps, MCAS is active with flaps up on the MAX with some other requirements. Also if ALPHA vanes now disagree by 5 or more the MCAS systen is deactivated the whole flight. Really it's a none issue now with the proper training..
Well Steven Skyking, why were they still having problems. The entire world " non pilots" knows what the Mcas system is now and that you need to disengage...if not function properly.
@@bmwlane8834 Because maybe, JUST maybe, this had nothing to do with MCAS.
The flight regime the plane was in when whatever happened occurred is not that where MCAS would engage.
Clean simple communications by both the crew and ATC. No extra crap.
👍
It was like listening to the movie Airport (1970)! 😀👍
They already must have had some flight control issue around 01:00 or so, you can hear their voice change there. And in the next transmission he changed mis-transmission what he wanted, he requested to maintain 15000.
Clear, calm and professional.
Yes👍
This like buying a brand new car off the dealership lot and having issues with the steering wheel on the way home...
except for the 10,000 feet under the plane!
That's a crummy call sign.
It was a stab trim motor failure in the nose down direction.
Can't wait to get on a max!!!!!!!
definitely nicer than a nextgen
So this was before or after the famous MCAS updates ?
Good job boeing sorted out all those flight control issues with the 737 max
Not really. It is still inheritably unstable plane. Meaning it could not fly with out constant computer corrections, like fighters plaines. There no unstable passengers exist, as if something go wron you ca do nothing.
@@Mutineer9 That's completely false. You should not speak on subjects you know nothing about. The 737 can fly just fine without "computer corrections" and most of it isn't even fly-by-wire. It is definitely not inherently unstable and bears no resemblance whatsoever to the way a fighter flies. No passenger airliner is inherently unstable, nor would any be type certified if it were.
@@Mutineer9 lmao. Dude, shut up.
@@Mutineer9 that’s completely false information. You have literally o clue what you are talking about.
@@markg7963 How much Boing pay you all?
mcas 2.0 already showing problems, what else boeing removed from training manuals now?
Not to sure if I’d fly on a MAX just yet
With all the wonders of the information era we are enjoying every day, how come we can't still have noise-free ATC communications??
You're hearing audio from receivers operated by volunteers at LiveATC, not the "real" radio transmission.
What Jeff said. It sounds a lot better in our headsets, though not noise-free. The reason noise does exist, though, is that ancient AM technology is a lot more error (and interference) tolerant than nice, noise-free digital modulation schemes. If two people transmit at the same time with an AM radio, we can immediately detect that that's happening and also can often still make out at least part of what's being said. If that happens with most digital modulation schemes, then you'll usually either get nothing at all or else you'll get one transmission without knowing that someone else is trying to talk. And different receivers would have different results, depending on their individual proximity to the transmitters.
Still won't get me on a max
Non stop from Seattle to continental Europe? Actually never thought knew a 737 can fly that far
Same here and I've got 2500 hours in the 737-200, 300, and 400 models. Probably flying a polar route which will shorten the distance but still that's a long flight for a narrow body jet.
How else did all the 737s get to Europe? Boat? ;p
Next day they did it without stop.
We are taking deliveries now as well. Takes about 10-11 hours to land in Dublin
@@theHDRflightdeck Hahahaha, good one! I mean really, how do people think 737’s made it over to Europe??? Duhhhh
Is the “Beauty” call sign a Boeing thing or an airline thing?
That's the airlines callsign
👍
was it ferry from Boing assembly line ?
Don’t think so. That’s in Renton. Not far from Seattle but this was from Boeing Field which is close to downtown Seattle itself
Were these issues related to what brought down the other two 737 MAX 8's prior to their groundings?
I don't know
No
Doubtful, as the plane departed the next day with no issues
Boeing field, how convenient.
That’s the factory’s airport. They had just departed from there
@@chrismetz1388 Kind of - they’re produced in Renton but prepared for delivery at BFI
Considering that aircraft was probably fully loaded with fuel, that was very likely a MCAS bullet dodged that the FAA should investigate.
Based on what?
@@bloodguard41 Gee, I don’t know. Because they couldn’t maintain control of the pitch or their altitude? What do you think caused it, brainiac - a load of bowling balls rolling back and forth in the hold?
@@HughShower There are a number of things that could have happened to hamper their ability to trim. Could be that the trim motor simply failed. That would explain why they needed to wait for a full day before leaving.
And if MCAS is to be feared so much, then the motor failing is the best thing that could happen to them. Because without that motor, MCAS can do nothing.
But hey, I guess you're the expert.
@@HughShower IF it was an MCAS failure, disengaging auto trim will be sufficient for regaining control.
This is certainly something curious regarding flight control issues (sounds like pitch) and 737 Max.
Hopefully, this will turn out to be unrelated, like something not being installed correctly or defective out of the box. Schadenfreude aside, Boeing needs a break.
@@hamletksquid2702 To be honest, "something not being installed correctly or defective out of the box" still isn't exactly good news ...
@@md95065 - You're right about that, but at least it's better than another systemic failure or the same one that was supposed to have been fixed. Some guy having a bad Monday can happen anywhere. Even if that turns out to be the case, I pity the guy who has to tell the press that.
Don’t no one get on those planes. You’ve been warned. One of the ex ceo at Boeing already said the electrical system is complete shit. If delta starts using these flying over the Atlantic then my days of flying will stop lol
How could a company that got it so right for so long, be doing this now?
Nice im flying the first time in my life on 9th November in a 737 MAX-8, maybe it's my last flight too.
Don't worry.
@@YouCanSeeATC I know im just joking im pretty hyped for my first flight :D
I understand. Enjoy your flight.
@@YouCanSeeATC Thank you very much i will!
I flew a new MAX-8 a few weeks back and it handled the climb well even through some moderate-severe convective turbulence. Very quiet and smooth at cruising and even the takeoff was pretty quiet compared to other older models.
OK, who expects that PAX will fly with this --- plane...???
Are you implying people are not flying them already?
They’re safe
Why do I get the feeling the world is watching this one !!!
Used to be if it ain't Boeing I ain't going. Now it seems that if its Boeing I sure as hell ain't going.
They’re safe
Unbelievable captain didn't even wont to dump fuel just get the thing on the ground asp well done sir
👍
You can't dump fuel on a 737
The 737 doesn't need to dump fuel and doesn't have the capability to do so. Unlike most wide-body aircraft, most narrow-body aircraft have have maximum landing weight only slightly below their maximum takeoff weight, so they can land almost immediately after taking off without it being an overweight landing. And, even if it were overweight, it would be only very slightly and not a particularly big deal. For that reason, most narrow-body aircraft are not equipped with fuel jettison capability.
737s do not have fuel dumpiing systems. Thanks for playing
It’s an empty aircraft
737 Max 8 with flight control problems?
Ah shit here we go again
Appears the MAX aircraft still have issues....
Every plane has issues. You’re only complaining because it’s a MAX
If this is MCAS related, count on Boeing to blame the pilots as they know that their future is in jeopardy. If Boeing cannot fix its own crap, then no one can and the MAX should be grounded until the MCAS system is entirely removed and the plane re-certified as its own type.
This max variant of the 737 needs to be scrapped completely. It’s obvious the fixes didn’t help.
I don’t think that it’s “obvious” at all. It could be MCAS. It could be any number of other things. Of course, with the 737 Max, everyone is going to automatically expect MCAS. I’m sure this isn’t the last that we will hear about it.
Hot take. But false.
MCAS?
737 Max 8 and Pitch control 🤦🏻♂️
"Never been a problem before" -Boeing Spokesperson
777X has the same issue :\
@@devintariel3769 "Missed it by that much ..." - Maxwell Smart
@@Anurania No, it doesn't.
@@bloodguard41 It does. The FAA put the brakes on 777X certification after a serious uncommanded pitch event on a test flight.
🤦♀️
😬
Another issue with the MAX...???
No.
Nope
You’re only complaining because it’s a MAX, it happens to every aircraft
And so it begins, again. Between this and the United engine failure a couple weeks ago, it's clear these aircraft are plagued with issues. And now more issues with the new Dreamliner. Clearly their quality control is non existent.
You just blamed an engine failure on Boeing. Nice.
@@JayJayAviation You might want to try reading what I actually wrote again, clearly your interpretation skills are lacking ;)
@@ShadyS-2012 “It’s clear these aircraft are plagued with issues.”. The follow up sentence to “the United engine failure a couple weeks ago.”. What am I not understanding?
What is beginning? Why is it beginning again? Did it stop beginning at some point?
MCAS problem.
Definitely not
Boeing are destroying the good reputation of the 737. When they added new engines and altered the position of them, they thought by adding the MCAS system which was designed to alter the pitch of the aircraft due to its centre of gravity having been moved, thought this would be a suitable fix to keep the aircraft flying straight and level. What I find absolutely astonishing is that no one spoke up and said this aircraft was never designed this way and by altering the centre of gravity and adding another system to fix the CoG would simply not work no matter what system you had put in place. Did no one ever think or apply some form of common sense and logic to this??? If you start altering the dynamics and altering the math and physics then you are on to a loosing battle straight away. Considering how many people having lost their lives flying one of these coffins in the sky is reason enough to avoid flying with airlines that use them. The correct centre of gravity must never be played around with and although technology has allowed this, it does nothing to make it stable enough to fly when that system fails. With the MCAS system being turned off, the aircraft cannot really be flown safely as you now have the CoG to tackle. I cant believe that this modification was even allowed to be put onto the drawing board. I personally would NEVER fly on a Boeing 737 Max. In my opinion they are unsafe and I consider them to be flying coffins. I know it can be said of a lot of aircraft systems if they fail, but even systems that do fail which can cause serious issues, at least the aircraft structure and its math and physics will keep it flying for a short time before it can safely land. You interfere with the dynamics and the math, you don't stand a chance of surviving because you've alter the math which simply don't add up!!
(A good friend of mine is an aerospace engineer and he raised concerns about the physics around A350... But they're doing just fine for whatever reason. Now I kind if want to get back into physics. lol)
@@andij605 My son has just started his 4 year degree in aeronautical engineering and I myself have been an avid model aeronautical engineer for decades. We apply the same principles of flight to that of the real thing. Of course taking away all of the modern electrical systems which we don't use but do oddly enough use a system whereby our aircraft can read and adjust the artificial horizon which maintains a perfect level flight. The only difference here is that if it fails, we simply turn it off and because the aircraft has the correct centre of gravity, it still maintains a perfect level flight whereby it can be safely landed . If you purposely unbalance an aircraft and then just add a device to correct it and that fails, I'm afraid it good bye to everyone on board. Its like cutting off your arms and supergluing a chimpanzee leg on and saying "that will do". I am in total disbelief that Boeing did this. With many of their aircraft being grounded and despite re-certification by the FAA, they still have issues with that MCAS system as we saw in this you tube clip. What confidence does that give people ???? To my surprise and disbelief I know of a couple of airlines that have put in orders for these flying coffins. If only they could reinstate the correct CoG as per the original specifications and find alternative fuel efficient engines which can be put back into their original positions on the wings, only then would I ever consider getting on board but until then, my feet stay firmly on the ground if it's a Boeing 737 Max an airline chooses to use.
Basically everything you wrote here is false. The MAX is not unstable in any way and MCAS was not added to deal with instability issues. It only exists for the plane to maintain same type certification with the rest of the 737 family.
Furthermore, nothing has been stated about what was the cause of the issue in this incident. Your assumption that it was MCAS is baseless. The aircraft involved departed the next day with no issues and has been in service pretty much since it arrived to base. No problems.
@@bloodguard41 I suggest you read and look at the report findings and then base your comments on that. By moving the centre of gravity you make the aircraft very unstable. It’s a shame those who have been killed can’t convince a person like you.
@@terencecottington4273 I have read them. They do not state what you claim.
Pilots testing the plane with the MCAS inhibited have stated that if there is any difference in handling, it is minuscule. Period.
One more order for an A320.
I'll never on a max, ever.
Good luck with that
Would you, could you on a train?
This plane must be permanently grounded.
No, it shouldn't. It's perfectly fine.
You're missing how it's been flying hundreds of thousands of hours already before and after it was banned and you see this one incident and come to that conclusion? Impressive. Also, this has nothing to do with MCAS, in case you’re curious.
@@skinnybricks no I don't have faith from the original crashes. I choose not to fly on it.
They’re safe, what are you on about?
@@jeranjed Good for you. It's still fine and should NOT be grounded.
NO,NO,NO guys is not Boeing fault, its the pilots!! One of them was drunk!!! Faa should investigate the drinking problem of pilots along with pilots from poor countries whos poor decisions caused the last two accidents
Yeah, weird how this one didn't crash, right? This has nothing to do with MCAS.
Who ever allowed this killing machine back in the air should be punished.
For?
Beauty981F Boeing ground say Intensions.
Beauty971F We're going to return to sender and get our money back!