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London's Lost Railways Ep. 10 - Bow Road to Victoria Park
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- čas přidán 22. 04. 2021
- We're up to Episode 10 of London's Lost Railways, and we're in east London walking from Bow Road to Victoria Park following an old line that is no longer here, but there's still several clues if you just know where to look ... SPOILER: There are no allotments in this one, just lots of new housing!
Download the London's Lost Railways map here: www.geofftech.co.uk/downloads...
Mr Briggs' Hat is a REALLY good book! Here: www.theguardian.com/books/201...
More station info:
Victoria Park - www.disused-stations.org.uk/v/...
Old Ford - www.disused-stations.org.uk/o/...
Bow - www.disused-stations.org.uk/b/...
Many thanks to illustrations by David Kirwin.
I remember working a couple of trains down that line in the early 80s. It took longer to remove the rubbish and burnt out cars than do the trip
Me too in the late 70's, a good old toffeeapple 31 out of Channelsea hauling unfitted wagons and running round at Victoria Park and down to the docks, removing discarded furniture off the traacks as you went. On one occasion we had police in the brake van!
@@orsoncarte8536 We went down light engine off SF to Victoria Park then down there to pick up some wagons for scrap. Got back to Victoria Park after about 4 hours to find we couldn't run round so had to go to Willesden BS with them. About a year later was secondman on a Cravens DMU down there full of VIPs looking at the route for some new fangled light railway system they were planning. I believe that was the last BR train to run down there as the box and junction at Victoria Park came out a few weeks later.
@@Castlebank_Sidings Seems the line not going to Victoria Park and Hackney, given the 2012 olympics may have been short sighted, dont know as the housing has been needed too.
@@highpath4776 true but i quite enjoy that the hustle and bustle of the new cafes are all kept to hackney wick rather than this side of the a12, it still feels nice and calm down wick lane (edit: i meant cadogan terrace) and victoria park and that station still being open would have changed that
Another shot of Geoff walking up the other side of a busy road in London. And my jaw droppes once more in wonder, that his camera wasn't pinched.
Yeah he's a brave man!
probably cause of daylight & social distancing
I grew up in a cul-de-sac called Lefevre Grove. The bottom of our street was a wire fence, the other side of which was an embankment. At the bottom of that embankment there was a low wall the other side of which existed the platform of Old Ford station.
It was still there when Lefevre Grove was destroyed in 1968.
There is a replacement - Lefevre Walk - there now.
It's incredible how many remnants of the old railways in London you can still find with knowledge and a keen eye.
Great video as always, Geoff!
I would love a series on London's Lost Canals. There used to be loads of old arms and basins.
czcams.com/video/Y6NbFgEY04Y/video.html 'Cruising the cut' every once in a while mentions them when he runs across them.
Does everyone else follow along on Google maps while watching these?
yes :D and also on openrailwaymap.org
Yep I do
Yes, but it took a while to find Chariot Close.
Yes! Glad to know I’m not the only one. 👍
If you use Bing Maps (you probably aren't), they still show the section from Bow Road to Victoria Park as an active railway.
I have travelled over this line on a railtour in June 1981 on an RCTS tour using a 7 car Cravens DMU. The tour was the last passenger train to run over the line (as well as the last train over the Stratford Low Level to Up Electric line curve later on) although i imagine the class 03+match wagon we found at Poplar Docks must have been the last train to use the line when it returned to Stratford (which i think was the last use of class 03's at this depot). The DMU stopped at Poplar High Street and we all just piled off and wandered around! That's how we found the shunter plus some freight wagons,. There was a big blue steel bridge across the A102 at Victoria Park (put in for the new road) which survived until the mid 1990s before it was removed as was Victoria Park Junction signal box, it had been closed for years but stood derelict until finally demolished.
Many thanks Geoff. Superb video as always. I used to have an old Geographers' AZ Map which I think I recall showed Victoria Park station as a Y shaped station with platforms on the North London Line nearly as far as Wallis Road, and down the Old Ford line where the dual carriageway is now. Back in the 1970s, I also recall seeing Old Ford station station cross over the street called Old Ford Road. I find courses of old railways both interesting and heart-breaking, thinking of the railways that were built and worked by dedicated men to the communities they served, lost to 'progress'.
Anyone else notice the stretched Mercies at 02:19? It might fit in a few extra passengers but not as many as a train would!
Until the early 90’s there was a Rail Bridge in place across the A12 allowing a future re-connection to the old track route. It was never used but had fresh ballast lain ready for tracks to be laid. You can see on the north end leading to the North London Line where the bridge was dismantled and some old railway furniture; unfortunately covered by nature now. You could access the bridge via a walkway (unofficially) from Chapman Rd and walk across it. The Victoria Park side was removed and the land sold to development of a Triangular shape block of flats and the bridge footings would have stopped where you access the footbridge from Cadogan Close.
Nice Geoff this is my old manor before I moved to Essex, I had no idea this line ever existed even though I've driven and walked around all of those roads mentioned in the video.
My family came from Bow. I can remember Bow low level station in the 60's it was quite fancy.
@5:24, the green island jutting out towards the A12, carried the branch line over the A-Road to and fro Bow. Until 2010-2014, I think, an old sign still stood at what was Victoria Park Junction saying as such from 1970s or 80s, where the line would have branched off toward Bow.
I used to live very close to old ford road and never noticed any of that old infrastructure.
Now I live near finsbury park and am waiting for the Finsbury Park to Highgate episode! ;)
Lots of memories for me as I grew up in this area in the 1950's and 60's. That little park where Geoff looks down to where the old Bow station was is actually the bottom of the garden in the terraced house I grew up in on Caxton Grove - demolished in the 1970's I think. . That's where my love of trains was born. It was usually goods trains going along that line but nearly every year we used to see a passenger excursion train and, if we did, we would wave like anything and the passengers would wave back.
Hi Geoff, another great video. And one that I am delighted you covered. I drive for c2c and have a great interest in the LTSR and the Great Eastern, so it is always interesting to see anything about the Hat Murder. I have been able to trace the line on Google maps so it was great to se it at ground level. As someone easing into the “old fart” category, I can clearly remember the line before the DLR when I was a boy. I often wondered why no matter how many times we crossed it on a train to and from Southend or Thurrock, I never saw a train on it so I was glad to see it reused. It was interesting when I first travelled on the DLR up to Stratford via All Saints as I had quite forgotten about the old line and then of course saw the disused bridge as the train curved dramatically right! 😉
The fourth Bow Station is I think the one on what we call “Bow Curve” which is now a single line and was the main through route for LTS trains until the short cut via Plaistow and East Ham was built to ease congestion at Stratford. It was singled when the DLR was built as the space formally occupied by the old “up” line as it joins the GE is occupied by the DLR as rises on the curve. We still use it for diversions e.g. if there is an “incident” between Barking and Gas Factory Junction, and thus it is part of my route knowledge...albeit the route is tiny and barely twice the length of the old station! There are actually substantial remains of the platforms 👍
Cheers Geoff, loved the series mate 🍻🍀😎
hey Tim, lovely comment - thank you! do C2C trains ever get diverted over the Bow Curve? have you signed for it?
you might also love: www.openrailwaymap.org/
whch allows you to see current day lines along with old abandoned lines. hours wasted looking at this!!
thanks again - still two more episodes to come!
@@geofftech2: Hi Geoff. Yes we do get diverted that way. In fact there is a journey on a driver’s diagram where you take a set of empty cars to Barking via Bow Curve and the section of the Barking-Gospel Oak line Fenchurch St to ensure drivers stay competent. You only have to do it once in any rolling 24 month period to do so 😄 We do get diversions via the GE and a large number of services call at Liverpool Street on a normal weekend via Barking-Gospel Oak line (via Woodgrange Park, Forest Gate, Maryland and Stratford though we only stop at Stratford). However, other than a brief period a few years ago over Christmas when occasional trains would be diverted via the then newly opened Stratford Westfield Shopping Centre to call also at Chafford Hundred for Lakeside (you can imagine the people this was popular with 🤣😂😅) we haven’t really had passenger service trains run via Bow curve. They generally only do if say there has been a fatality or lines down, etc between Bromley by Bow and East Ham, just so services can run. However, GE have been a bit sh!tty about this in recent years and a couple of times have actually just said “Nah, can’t accommodate you...” 🙄
So generally you will only get to see Bowcurve if you are a driver or something dreadful has happened and GE aren’t being dicks! 😜
Cheers mate 🍀🍻👍
1:22 This is the Bow and Gas Factory Curve which links the LTS Line and the GEML. This does get used by c2c trains in some occasions
EDIT: Freight Services do not go through this junction but as seen, Class 345 Trains do get parked there just to make sure they're cleared in case there's disruptions in the XR Core Section
Yeah, never seen freight there. Where would it come from to go to?
Many times I've seen a class 345 parked there from a c2c train.
Never been on the curve on a c2c train, usually if they divert they go to Liverpool Street instead.
@@dominicfindlay There are a few ECS Services to and from FST that go through this area to get to Seven Kings
I've never seen a freight go on that ex-Ferodo Bridge, and never a passenger train passing through it. I've only seen - and I'd say over last 1 to 1.5 years - a Class 345 parked before the bridge or some parked with the cab across bridge closest to the magistrates court. I've never seen a C2C or even an LTS (at the time) run through it. I know it's a single layout track, but what on earth is it used for? It's completely abandoned! I have noticed the 345 now turns up on that curve at or around 16.44 every weekday. But why would they need to do that? I know you've mentioned, but it cannot be for that reason alone can it?
Also, someone mentioned a C2C going past that way, what service is/was it? I'm just very intrigued as it's my neck of the woods.
Yes Your Correct C2C TRAINS Do Use Bow Curve In April 2022 And June 2022 And Feb 2023 And Dec 2023. And Sunday The 21ST Jan 2024. Due To Engineering Works Between Limehouse And Barking. On A Weekend When Engennering Works Not A Regular Service. Only When Engennering Works
Yes Your Correct C2C TRAINS Do Use Bow Curve In April 2022 And June 2022 And Feb 2023 And Dec 2023. And Sunday The 21ST Jan 2024. Due To Engineering Works Between Limehouse And Barking. On A Weekend When Engennering Works Not A Regular Service. Only When Engennering Works
“Surprisingly, a part of London that hasn’t been built on yet.” - Geoff Marshall, Allotted ‘Allotment’ Enthusiast, 2021.
You may spoken too soon 😂
That was interesting, I lived in Cadogan terrace for years and never knew anything about a Victoria park or Old Ford road station, yes it used to be the Top of the morning pub that is now the block of flats next to the Hertford union canal.
Trains used to run on Sunday from Tring and Dalston Junction over the North London line to Southend. The tickets stated the route as "via Bow and Bromley". They were made of LMS suburban stock which was very comfortable apart from the fact that it was not corridor. You had to be sure to go before you started your journey.
Excellent video, Geoff. I grew up a stone's throw from Bow Church Station and knew about this line. You've managed to capture about as much of the old line as there is still to see. Took me back to a few of my old haunts. Thank You
That bit of A12 used to be a motorway 🛣, part of the London ring roads that never got finished.
This is true the A12 (M). Why was it downgraded?
@@mushy3424 I think 🤔 it got down graded when they joined it up with the bypass from the Redbridge roundabout. The A40M in central London was also down graded.
@@johnchurch4705 The A12(M), A40(M) and M41 lost motorway status when they were transferred to TfL in 2000.
@@DavidWood2 thank you , I have London maps that show the old motorways 🛣.
@@mushy3424 It was the A102(M). It became the A12 when the new link road to Redbridge was built
There is a railway bridge crossing Kenworthy Road, Homerton E9. I was brought up in that area and never ever saw a train pass over that bridge. I think it was freight only but never saw any train pass there over many years.
I love all your videos but this one has a special meaning for me as it's my area - thanks Geoff!! Brilliant video was SO excited to see it pop up x
same i love this video even see my house
We need a Tim and Jay cameo on Lost Railways. Imperative.
what if they have already walked past in the background of a cutaway shot and you just didn' t spot it ... ? ;-D
@@geofftech2 Tim is there in spirit while his body is based in Paris.
And Paul and Rebecca...
I wonder what the odds are on Geoff and (fill in the name of another CZcamsr ) meeting whilst walking in opposite directions on the same pavement filming the same route in reverse.
Then who's holding the camera at 2:14 ?
First person to fully Finnish the video without skipping. Great video
In 150 years, someone will be making a video about the lost episodes of the lost railways series. With allotments! ;-)
I use to walk that line in the late 70s, to get to Roman Road. I would also walk south on the same line to Langdon Park and Crisp Street. We called them the ‘Diesel Lines’.
Fantastic series, I have really enjoyed every episode. London seems like a city full of hidden railway gems.
1:44-1:50 Bet that sequence took some doing Geoff!
Wow you were right in my neighbourhood and 4:00 The Italian Job - the last restaurant i went to with me mates right before the long lockdown ~ xD
Hey Geoff, i drive freight through the NLL, you can see the area where Victoria Park signal box used to be aswell as the old platforms ect. Pretty cool actually however it blows your mind to think the railway used to carry on there, you wouldnt know from looking these days!
Hopefully get stopped there one day so i can grab a quick pic!
"Old Ford" immediately made me think of the Big Breakfast TV show, filmed not too far away (very close to what is now the Olympic Stadium) next to Old Ford Locks.
Thankfully, they didn't call it Bow Locks!
You joke but Bow Locks are a little bit further south near Bow Creek.
Nice video.
Please do also the former part of the North London Line between Stratford and North Woolwicht
You were so close to the legendary Bus Stop M at the start!
do you think he met up with DG for a cuppa
@@carolinegreenwell9086 Let’s hope so
very much so ... ;-D
Hey Geoff, did you know there is another foot crossing in London located between Enfield town and Bush Hill Park? Its in zone 5 so must count! It closed to traffic in 2014ish but remains as pedestrian only. Hope you see this and make a video!
Have you thought about a piece on the disused railways around the Empire Exhibition grounds in Wembley? The route of the Stadium Loop is still discernible but I guess any remains of the Never Stop Railway are now long gone. Keep up the brilliant work.
Fantastic video Geoff! It was a great series and it was very interesting too! 😀👍🏻
And there are a few videos still to come! 😃
thanks Jessica, very kind. still got a couple more to come! (saving the best 'til last...)
Thank you for replying @@geofftech2 it made my day 😀
The Bow curve is used for C2C services via Stratford & Forest Gate at Peak Times or while Enginering Work is in Progress. I'm sure they use it for some freight too.
Excellent Geoff. Thank you. Watched all 10 episodes in one sitting.
Glad you like them! still a coupe more to come!
This series is great, and there's something a little extra when the episode goes past areas I jog and cycle by frequently.
This is my local walking route as I live by Bow station. I know everywhere you went and only noticed some of the train clues but not them all. I’ll check it out tonight!
Exactly at 3.20, was the opening scene and played through out for The Bill: Season 2, Episode 8 Public and Confidential back in 1985
These lost railways videos are great Geoff
5:29 "And that is the end of London's Lost Episodes..."
Deliberate from Geoff or Freudian??
"Used to be a pub" are five pretty saddening words when it comes to city history.
Another Bingo Slot indeed
@@highpath4776 Ah yes, that too.
There are no pubs left around there. The new arrivals don't drink.
I'm researching my family tree. In 9173 I used to do the odd bar shift in my cousin's pub The Rutland Arms in Perry Vale, London SE. I looked it up last week to see where it was at. It's now a complex of seven or nine flats in the original building...tempus fugit.
@@geoffbarry9540 In part is it the cost of emploeyers NHI, Pensions, VAT on Food and Business Rates that makes the Pub experience generally too expensive , along with Cheap Alcholo from Tesco
Hello There, this is a really decent and much appreciated aspect to the lost railways series. It was great to get a full insight into this. Cheers Peter :)
Thanks for doing these , I’m really enjoying them all👍
OOOH! Another day, Another Episode! I have caught up with all the episodes! It’s great fun to watch!
Another excellent video, Geoff, and am looking forward to the Parkland Walk one.
As you come along the existing NLL past the old Victoria park junction you can still see a little of the old track bed peeling away and there is also still the base of the old signal box retained as a switch cabin.
back in the 80s and 90s my dad used to run the railway tavern
No way! Amazing ... when did it close?
@@geofftech2 About 11pm, most nights.
@@englishciderlover7347 lol
@@englishciderlover7347 😂
@@englishciderlover7347 😆😂😂😆😆😂😂😆😆😆😆😂😂 hahaha
Another great video, thanks. Will have to take a trip up to London mid-summer and try to do these walks
Great video. I knew a bit about the old railway stations in Bow, but didn’t know where to look for the now disappeared line. You pronounce Tredegar different to my grandparents, though, who lived in Bow for most of their lives.
FYI that train bridge over bow road at 1:36 has a stationary cross rail train on it every day at around 5-6pm
Another brilliant video, London and indeed the UK,had so many lines that shut.
Apart from my love of the old line from Seven Sisters to Palace Gate I can't help wonder why the northern Heights line from Finsbury park to Alley Pallet closed in July 1954.
Pre war it was being electrified so LT could run tube trains over it and the line was to connect to the old Northern City line that ran from Finsbury Park to Moorgate.
Back in the 60s at Finsbury Park on the Sevensisters Road side of the station were huge iron girders that were from the 30s for the new platforms.
Mr Hitler put paid to that plan so like so many plans they were abandoned.
Funnily enough the location of the A12 over the old Victoria Park station is one of the few places where Ringway 1 and its North Cross Route actually had construction
Nice pronunciation of Tredegar there, Geoff. Almost perfect, well done.
I’ve purchased the book Mr Briggs Hat. As having the surname Briggs and being from Hackney I had to get it. There is a picture of him (Thomas) in the middle of the book. And he looks just like my Grandad who also was called Thomas Briggs. I do wonder if he could be part of my family tree.
Loosely connected with this line (potentially), there was an episode of Danger UXB from the 80s which was filmed in some derelict railway sidings of vast proportions. After some research I have a suspicion the location may have been Harrow Lane sidings off the Poplar NLR line which is the subject of this episode of Lost Railways. Might've been shortly before they started redeveloping the docks area 1982 onwards?
Even here in France I managed to get a secondhand copy of "Mr Briggs' Hat" via Amazon France (it originated from the library of the British and Commonwealth Women's Society branch in the 7th Arrondisement of Paris which is bizarre in itself!). I've just finished reading it and it is a fascinating read, highly recommended. As the book makes clear though the death of Thomas Briggs was the first railway murder (if it was indeed murder!!) in Great Britain, not the world. There had been a previous railway murder in France and the guilty party for that was even a suspect in the early stages of the Briggs case.
It is curious how isolated from tube/ DLR etc access Victoria park is. Such a large asset isolated from people who would use it.
I love that a lost railway had a lost motorway (now designated A12) built right next to it.
Enjoyed that Geoff. Excellent!
Really enjoyed the whole series, thanks for posting
lol this was not in the original series but in the Croxley green - Watford junction will u include the lien down to rickmansworth church street bc that line would of connected whit the vine street branch
Is it just me or is the DLR the Delightful, Lovely Railway
Dinky Little Railway 😉
Brilliant series thank you
This is in an interesting area of London that I like a lot
Hi Geoff. I can still remember the freight line crossing the A12 when it first opened which was then called the East Cross Route. I think the bridge came down in the early eighties.
Thanks, Geoff. I love this series
Looking across the A12 where the trees are next to the NLL, there were some buildings up there which I believed to be part of this railway. I used to live in Hackney Wick from 2010-2012.
"The last railway we're walking today" - looking forward to the next one then! :D
Th\a's the one I've been waiting for!! The Poplar branch of the North London Railway. Brilliant.
I've always been amazed that there's an old car wedged in one of the arches between Bow Church and Pudding Mill Lane.
Used to see 31's working along here when driving through the Blackwall Tunnel heading for north London.
I went to school at Tredegar Road. My old School was Coopers Company
That was great Geoff. We have been following along and I'm looking forward to the "more"
Now I'm totally hammered!
If my following-along-on-google-maps is correct, @ 0:53 when you refer to the Bow Road DLR station, you really meant Bow Church.
Big fan, love these videos!
This is really interesting, so much of London is hidden ....
I knew this area so well until I left around there nine years ago, and have only gone back when going to Billingsgate and driving around there.
Really enjoyed this series. Thanks, Geoff 👍👍
Driven on the noisy A12 hundreds of times but never felt like was in a park !!
If Google Maps is relatively recent, it looks like some of the old railway might be visible (on the grassy section by the A12), between Hackney Wick and Homerton stations. Maybe?!
For reference, not that it'll come up again, but it's Tredegar like Trafalgar. Tready-gah. Apologies if it's just something you have trouble pronouncing.
I've enjoyed watching these Geoff - thanks 🙂🚂🚂🚂
Endlessly fascinating... now for all those other lost railways?
I have enjoyed these.
4:16 I believe the pub (or at least its last name before it shut and was left derelict) was called Top O' The Morning.
I've enjoyed these, many thanks :)
Time for the new bingo!
-Why are you piss drunk ?
-Some guy on CZcams said allotment a few times
House!
I counted 12 out of the possible 19 🤔😄
@@anniesoernym Did you notice the 3 hypothetical ones though? ..... And there was one above the shop, disguised as a fridge!
Great video and great series as well :)
This Linke could certainly be reused by the DLR right?
Rerouting the DLR to Stratford to continue straight directly to Limehouse.
And another line from Poplar to Victoria Park.
Half of the alligment between Limehouse and Bow is allready wide enough for 4 tracks (2 track for BR and 2 for the DLR)
I've droven on the noisy part of the A12, and i've also seen a sign saying victoria park
I'm happy this one is near my house so I can visit easier
London is very nice.
Great stuff, enjoyed every episode 👍
I was disappointed allot-ments when there was no allotments (couldn’t resist the pun) but the video wasn’t disappointing, it was truly awesome and really enjoyed it.
New series suggestion: London's Vacant Land Blocks. Should be a short series.