@@tonycstech This is true if one trusts and works with cheap instruments. As regards capacitors, ESR is the way to go. The only exception is the case of many paralleled capacitors (in order to drastically reduce the total ESR of the resulting cap) where there is always a possibility for one of them to be dry or open or shorted and therefore they need to be tested one by one. In all the other cases in circuit ESR measurements are the key to successful and fast repairs.
Tony Nameless Yes, indeed. It’s a matter of preference finally. You can remove 50-60 capacitors and test them one by one. You will need one day time and take the risk of damaging the pub or causing other problems to the device under test...I also said that the ESR measuring method is the faster and the most reliable and effective one. But if you insist on CHEAP methods, you should undertake the risk of their unfortunate results they very likely reveal. At the end it’s your preference, not mine, and I am not trying to convince you (at least in the way you do). Cheap is not always as it seems to be...
@@tonycstech It happened to revisit your video again and I think I owe you a better explanation than that of my previous comment. There is nothing wrong with the method you propose here. In fact this was the unique method available when I got involved with electronics, at a time where only analog multimeters were available in the market...No capaci-meters, no ESR meters...ESR itself was not known in the community of repairs technicians. Our exclusive tool was the analog multimeter. Now, when testing electrolytic caps with such an instrument, you must keep in mind that most of them, when being set in the Ohm's ranges, reverse the polarity of the test voltage that comes out through the test probes. Practically speaking, if the probes are connected properly according to their color coding, the plus voltage appears at the black probe while the minus from the red one. This must always be taken into account when testing electrolytic caps. The reason is that these caps are polarized. This practically means that they "hate" reverse polarity and the best way for testing them is as follows. After the first shorting of the caps' terminals, one should take a full measurement with the probes reversed in relation to the polarity markings on the caps' case (for testing with the correct polarity). In this case, the needle pointer will deflect to the right side (charging the cap) and then falls backwards. It should not stay nowhere between the entire range, except of sitting on the infinity marking. This confirms a healthy capacitor behavior. One can short the cap terminals and repeat this step. If the needle stays anywhere except infinity the cap is leaky and this is the nightmare of any technician facing this problem when troubleshooting... In case of polarity reversal of the probes and a good cap under test, most likely the needle will reach the area of the infinity marking but will not sit on it. This effect is only due to the wrong polarity of the test signal, no mater how small it is, and will give you the wrong impression of a faulty capacitor under test. Apart from that, this polarity reversal of the test signal drives crazy anyone inexperienced operator of analog multimeters when testing diodes. They seem to have their cathode marking in the wrong place! An important notice here: in any case, one should avoid testing diodes in the Rx1 range, because in this range the output test current of the meter is of the order of 150mA typically, which very easily can destroy an ordinary small signal transistor during testing. Rx10 or better Rx100 is much safer. The only drawback of the method proposed here, is that it's time consuming. That was my point in the first place. When ESR meters are easily available and affordable in these days, the application of the above "primitive" method just makes no sense. Nevertheless it is accepted, of course, at least as a last resort. Or as the "poor man's" method if you wish. Hopefully I made myself clear, with no chance for any misunderstanding.
@@user-pz6cx8zf2y Wonderful explanation! Thank you so much for taking the time to type that. I have several benchtop LCR meters, Vintage capacitor leakage testers, and a modern sencore leakage tester, (Z meter). But A majority of the time I need to test caps and boards when I am not in my laboratory. So I purchased a DE-5000 lcr meter and it seems to be pretty reliable when testing capacitance and ESR in circuit. It uses 100hz to 100kHz to test the capacitors. And the ESR and capacitance values change according to the frequency selected. I never know what test frequency to use. I would love your opinion and advice on the most efficient and reliable way to use this meter. Also… Do I need to worry about polarity reversal when using the lcr meter? Also for my portable lab… I purchased a Knight “minilab 2010”, which gives me variable power supplies, function generators, and many other useful tools built into a nice aluminum briefcase. Totally portable. I customized it removing the Proto typing board area that I didn’t need and replacing it with a small battery powered oscilloscope.. But I’m now looking to buy a better portable oscilloscopes because I’m doing more and more repairs when not in my lab. I can’t justify a cost for a fluke scope meter, but I also don’t want a cheap piece of junk. So I think I’ve settled on a hantek 70MHz battery powered scope… which are around $150. Or possibly a siglent or micsig tablet style 100MHz scope. But they are closer to $500. Would love your insight and advice. Thanks a lot!
@@hullinstruments Since I own this LCR meter you referred to, my impression is that it is an excellent lab instrument. I have seen many comparison videos between this one and various other similar meters before buying it. It competes successfully many of them which are much more expensive. Therefore I am not using it for trivial works but only on something special. Keep in mind that none of the available instruments can show you the real capacitance in circuit. Whatever you read is always wrong. This is due to the effect of the circuit itself which affects such measurements. As a rule therefore, capacitance cannot be measured in circuit. So the remaining crucial parameter for these tests is ESR testing, just because it is tricky and overcomes the difficulty imposed of the rest components of (any) circuit where a capacitor to be tested is. The trick is the use of high frequency, which typically is 100kHz. The testing voltage is a few decades of millivolts of this signal at the test probes of the instrument. Therefore there is no question about the polarity of the applied signal, due to its small magnitude. The result is merely based on Ohm's Law, with the difference being that the voltage is H.F/ A.C., instead of D.C. This means that ESR meters are nothing but A.C Ohm meters. With such a testing voltage, a) no other semiconductor conducts affecting the measurement, b) the frequency applied is so high that overcomes the capacitive reactance very effectively, making the measurements reliable c) therefore, these instruments can reliably measure all the range of capacitors, from 1μF up to 1000 μF and above that. The problem with large capacitance puts a limit to these instruments, just because a large capacitance has so tiny impedance that the instrument cannot display the relevant ESR. It is just a few micro-Ohm. These cases need specialized and very expensive instruments. Practically speaking, the renown "Blue ESR meter" I use for repairs, can effectively test capacitors ranging from 0,1μF, namely 100nF, up to 1000 μF and above, as I explained. It's maximum ESR indication is 100 Ohm (which allows testing a 100nF cap). This instrument made my life easy indeed as regards fast and reliable in circuit cap testing. The DER 5000 deserves a better, far superior use as I think... This is my aspect on the topic. By the way, using this precious meter, you can evaluate the health condition of ANY capacitor, no matter the magnitude of its capacitance, by using the old testing method, that is, 120Hz and following the instructions given in relatively old capacitor catalogues. There, the DF factor of the capacitor is given, which changes according to their nominal voltage. Then you need to work according to their instructions. I have seen that in a catalog of Nippon Chemicon but it is difficult to remember it. DF is equivalent to ESR. And the standard frequency used in cap testing is 1kHz. The DER 5000 is excellent because you can easily see the behaviour of the cap, especially the electrolytic one, under various frequencies. In other words you can see how other parameters, such as induction, come into play affecting the capacitance itself... Anyway, if you work with this instrument for ESR in circuit testing, put it manually on 100kHz test frequency and watch only for ESR. (Forgeting the capacitance as aforesaid)... As regards portable oscilloscopes, I also need one, but for the time being my Rigol covers my needs. If I need portability, I use a small inverter along with a battery...In rare cases of course. I hope these guidelines help you...
So the total sweep of the needle is the same when the capacitor is good (resistance measurement applies a small potential difference to the leads from the meter's battery which charges the capacitor when one way around on the legs, discharges when the other way around?).
Not actually true. You can test them with a digital multimeter. Put your leads on the correct polarity then turn your meter to 20k , you will see it charge. Then put your meter on 200m - then you will see it discharge.
@@tonycstech The point is you still need to test total capacitance against its rating as well. So checking it with the analogue meter is just a waste of time.
@@healthystyle I agree. It's not a particularly good explanation of WHY he's doing it. But as I understand it, and I could be completely wrong here, with the meter set on Ohms, low voltage is sent through the probe+ from the meter's battery. The indication of resistance is done by measuing the voltage drop across a shunt in the meter, which is accurately known for resistance. The meter is technically still reading voltage even though it's set to resistance but it's reading voltage drop over its shunt rather than potential difference across the probes. So what he is doing, by having it set to read resistance, is charging the capacitor with the probes in one polarity then, when you swap the lead polarity, discharging.
The most reliable capacitor tester is the ESR meter. Tests in circuit (power off) without the need of desoldering the caps. Fast and clean method.
@@tonycstech This is true if one trusts and works with cheap instruments. As regards capacitors, ESR is the way to go. The only exception is the case of many paralleled capacitors (in order to drastically reduce the total ESR of the resulting cap) where there is always a possibility for one of them to be dry or open or shorted and therefore they need to be tested one by one. In all the other cases in circuit ESR measurements are the key to successful and fast repairs.
Tony Nameless Yes, indeed. It’s a matter of preference finally. You can remove 50-60 capacitors and test them one by one. You will need one day time and take the risk of damaging the pub or causing other problems to the device under test...I also said that the ESR measuring method is the faster and the most reliable and effective one. But if you insist on CHEAP methods, you should undertake the risk of their unfortunate results they very likely reveal. At the end it’s your preference, not mine, and I am not trying to convince you (at least in the way you do). Cheap is not always as it seems to be...
@@tonycstech It happened to revisit your video again and I think I owe you a better explanation than that of my previous comment.
There is nothing wrong with the method you propose here. In fact this was the unique method available when I got involved with electronics, at a time where only analog multimeters were available in the market...No capaci-meters, no ESR meters...ESR itself was not known in the community of repairs technicians. Our exclusive tool was the analog multimeter.
Now, when testing electrolytic caps with such an instrument, you must keep in mind that most of them, when being set in the Ohm's ranges, reverse the polarity of the test voltage that comes out through the test probes. Practically speaking, if the probes are connected properly according to their color coding, the plus voltage appears at the black probe while the minus from the red one.
This must always be taken into account when testing electrolytic caps. The reason is that these caps are polarized. This practically means that they "hate" reverse polarity and the best way for testing them is as follows.
After the first shorting of the caps' terminals, one should take a full measurement with the probes reversed in relation to the polarity markings on the caps' case (for testing with the correct polarity). In this case, the needle pointer will deflect to the right side (charging the cap) and then falls backwards. It should not stay nowhere between the entire range, except of sitting on the infinity marking. This confirms a healthy capacitor behavior. One can short the cap terminals and repeat this step. If the needle stays anywhere except infinity the cap is leaky and this is the nightmare of any technician facing this problem when troubleshooting...
In case of polarity reversal of the probes and a good cap under test, most likely the needle will reach the area of the infinity marking but will not sit on it. This effect is only due to the wrong polarity of the test signal, no mater how small it is, and will give you the wrong impression of a faulty capacitor under test.
Apart from that, this polarity reversal of the test signal drives crazy anyone inexperienced operator of analog multimeters when testing diodes. They seem to have their cathode marking in the wrong place! An important notice here: in any case, one should avoid testing diodes in the Rx1 range, because in this range the output test current of the meter is of the order of 150mA typically, which very easily can destroy an ordinary small signal transistor during testing. Rx10 or better Rx100 is much safer.
The only drawback of the method proposed here, is that it's time consuming. That was my point in the first place. When ESR meters are easily available and affordable in these days, the application of the above "primitive" method just makes no sense. Nevertheless it is accepted, of course, at least as a last resort. Or as the "poor man's" method if you wish. Hopefully I made myself clear, with no chance for any misunderstanding.
@@user-pz6cx8zf2y Wonderful explanation! Thank you so much for taking the time to type that.
I have several benchtop LCR meters, Vintage capacitor leakage testers, and a modern sencore leakage tester, (Z meter).
But A majority of the time I need to test caps and boards when I am not in my laboratory. So I purchased a DE-5000 lcr meter and it seems to be pretty reliable when testing capacitance and ESR in circuit. It uses 100hz to 100kHz to test the capacitors. And the ESR and capacitance values change according to the frequency selected. I never know what test frequency to use.
I would love your opinion and advice on the most efficient and reliable way to use this meter. Also… Do I need to worry about polarity reversal when using the lcr meter?
Also for my portable lab… I purchased a Knight “minilab 2010”, which gives me variable power supplies, function generators, and many other useful tools built into a nice aluminum briefcase. Totally portable. I customized it removing the Proto typing board area that I didn’t need and replacing it with a small battery powered oscilloscope.. But I’m now looking to buy a better portable oscilloscopes because I’m doing more and more repairs when not in my lab.
I can’t justify a cost for a fluke scope meter, but I also don’t want a cheap piece of junk. So I think I’ve settled on a hantek 70MHz battery powered scope… which are around $150.
Or possibly a siglent or micsig tablet style 100MHz scope. But they are closer to $500.
Would love your insight and advice.
Thanks a lot!
@@hullinstruments Since I own this LCR meter you referred to, my impression is that it is an excellent lab instrument. I have seen many comparison videos between this one and various other similar meters before buying it. It competes successfully many of them which are much more expensive. Therefore I am not using it for trivial works but only on something special.
Keep in mind that none of the available instruments can show you the real capacitance in circuit. Whatever you read is always wrong. This is due to the effect of the circuit itself which affects such measurements. As a rule therefore, capacitance cannot be measured in circuit. So the remaining crucial parameter for these tests is ESR testing, just because it is tricky and overcomes the difficulty imposed of the rest components of (any) circuit where a capacitor to be tested is.
The trick is the use of high frequency, which typically is 100kHz. The testing voltage is a few decades of millivolts of this signal at the test probes of the instrument. Therefore there is no question about the polarity of the applied signal, due to its small magnitude. The result is merely based on Ohm's Law, with the difference being that the voltage is H.F/ A.C., instead of D.C. This means that ESR meters are nothing but A.C Ohm meters.
With such a testing voltage, a) no other semiconductor conducts affecting the measurement, b) the frequency applied is so high that overcomes the capacitive reactance very effectively, making the measurements reliable c) therefore, these instruments can reliably measure all the range of capacitors, from 1μF up to 1000 μF and above that.
The problem with large capacitance puts a limit to these instruments, just because a large capacitance has so tiny impedance that the instrument cannot display the relevant ESR. It is just a few micro-Ohm. These cases need specialized and very expensive instruments.
Practically speaking, the renown "Blue ESR meter" I use for repairs, can effectively test capacitors ranging from 0,1μF, namely 100nF, up to 1000 μF and above, as I explained. It's maximum ESR indication is 100 Ohm (which allows testing a 100nF cap). This instrument made my life easy indeed as regards fast and reliable in circuit cap testing. The DER 5000 deserves a better, far superior use as I think...
This is my aspect on the topic.
By the way, using this precious meter, you can evaluate the health condition of ANY capacitor, no matter the magnitude of its capacitance, by using the old testing method, that is, 120Hz and following the instructions given in relatively old capacitor catalogues. There, the DF factor of the capacitor is given, which changes according to their nominal voltage. Then you need to work according to their instructions. I have seen that in a catalog of Nippon Chemicon but it is difficult to remember it. DF is equivalent to ESR. And the standard frequency used in cap testing is 1kHz.
The DER 5000 is excellent because you can easily see the behaviour of the cap, especially the electrolytic one, under various frequencies.
In other words you can see how other parameters, such as induction, come into play affecting the capacitance itself...
Anyway, if you work with this instrument for ESR in circuit testing, put it manually on 100kHz test frequency and watch only for ESR. (Forgeting the capacitance as aforesaid)...
As regards portable oscilloscopes, I also need one, but for the time being my Rigol covers my needs. If I need portability, I use a small inverter along with a battery...In rare cases of course.
I hope these guidelines help you...
Thanks a lot
So the total sweep of the needle is the same when the capacitor is good (resistance measurement applies a small potential difference to the leads from the meter's battery which charges the capacitor when one way around on the legs, discharges when the other way around?).
Superb
Not actually true. You can test them with a digital multimeter. Put your leads on the correct polarity then turn your meter to 20k , you will see it charge. Then put your meter on 200m - then you will see it discharge.
I am trying to figure out which sitting is on your multimeter.
Is it on the ohm ?
EXCELLENT👍👍
actually which meter is perfect to test a capacitor?
The best is an ESR meter. And they are affordable.
The best is LCR-meter, you can get DE-5000 pretty cheap nowadays. (70-80 USD)
@@rpdigital17 This indeed is the best, because it measures all the relevant parameters of any cap (including ESR) or coil.
This is super.
cool !!!
Why won't a multimeter with capacitance test a capacitor
Not sure if it is a good idea to allow test leads touch fingers. Better to use test leads. Your body can act as a wire.
Hashem N it’s absolutely fine
But best way is use ESR meter
in circuit is the most efficient and yes; I'm leaning towards esr as well.
Discharge your caps before putting them on the digital component tester or you will be buying yourselves a new tester!
You just proved that the analog is crap to
@@tonycstech The point is you still need to test total capacitance against its rating as well. So checking it with the analogue meter is just a waste of time.
Both capacitors were bad.
really? what a waste of time
I didn't understand anything of what he was saying
@@healthystyle I agree. It's not a particularly good explanation of WHY he's doing it. But as I understand it, and I could be completely wrong here, with the meter set on Ohms, low voltage is sent through the probe+ from the meter's battery. The indication of resistance is done by measuing the voltage drop across a shunt in the meter, which is accurately known for resistance. The meter is technically still reading voltage even though it's set to resistance but it's reading voltage drop over its shunt rather than potential difference across the probes.
So what he is doing, by having it set to read resistance, is charging the capacitor with the probes in one polarity then, when you swap the lead polarity, discharging.