About The Last Video
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 4. 08. 2024
- I just want to clarify some things I said in the last video regarding edge retention and the edge retention test in general. Thanks!đ
âĄïžOriginal video âą I've Discovered Someth...
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AboutâŹïž
Hi, Im Alex, im a knife maker and CZcamsr, based out of southern Pennsylvania and my youtube channel is Outdoors55. This channel started as an outdoor backpacking channel, but quickly grew into a knife/ knife making channel. Everything I do on my channel is family friendly. I primarily focus on knife / knife making videos but occasionally throw in something different. Thank you for watching!đ
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I usually try to stay away from controversial subjects but it seems I may have opened up a can of worms. Remember I'm not an expert and just a guy filming himself cutting stuff. Take everything I say with a grain of salt. Im perfectly capable of screwing stuff up đ Thanks for taking the time to watch!
OUTDOORS55
The vast majority of people would view that video for what it is - good food for thought. Youâll never be able to legislate for all the You Tube anal professors so donât worry about it. Keep it up đ
You are doing an incredible job Alex. Ignore the trolls. All modern knife steels used by the big manufacturers like Kershaw Spyderco etc are excellent and you did a great job showing that. Miniscule differences are the stuff steel snobs sit behind their keyboard and sweat over. How's the Dad life going?
I would rather see what you did in the video and make my opinion on what it ment than just listen to some know it all I think the video was great just like a motor on a dyno it maybe different when you go to the Track just because it's better on paper don't mean everything. It's good to have information to study and good to have real world info to
Don't worry about it. You were giving an honest opinion. Most of us knife goofballs don't have 1000 dollar sharpening systems we just have our real world experience. Keep up the good work
No need for an explanation friend, it all dépends if people want knives to frame on the wall or a knife to use every day. You can't please everybody but i will wager that you please 90percent of knife USERS. Keep up the great work.
You have the steel geeks, then you have the rest of us who hunt fish and do a lot out doors and have done for some 65 years now before we had controversy over steel and some how in our primitive ways we always seem to get it done even when we had no idea what angle anything was . Some of us were making spoons forks plates dishes and all the normal things you did when camping out doors, way before the word Bush craft was ever around and will continue to do so with new steel or old it all works out the main thing is to do it . Happy Trai
I can be a steel geek and sharpening geek just as much as the next guy. Im just showing what I experience and share those experiences along the way. Remaining unbiased is tough though. I definitely share my opinions, but try to not force my opinions as truth. Thanks for the comment my friend!
Mike Boone I notice that most steel geeks are well-off office workers that only use their knives for opening boxes and envelopes, yet somehow they act like they need the hardest steel known to man and will happily pay $200+ for it. When I was growing up on a farm, I had no clue there was more than 1 kind of steel and I had a cheap no-name China folder with no steel ID on it. Guaranteed those steel geeks would've mocked it and called it "butter soft" steel, but that thing was used and abused and kept on cutting. In some ways, I wish I didn't become "educated" in steels, because it would've saved me a lot of money and it's completely unnecessary for 99% of users.
Same here but I grew up in the 50's 75 now my first knife was a sharade still carry it to this day in my watch pocket it has cleaned more fish skinned more rabbits and deer than I care to remember .My first hunter dad made from an industrial hack saw blade he got from a friend of my grand dad in town . All the blades on the pocket knife are all recurve blades now, from all the years of loving from the stone but still like new and just resting until it's us is needed . The term I here used by many for our steel is shit steel but that's okay worked out just fine for generations of pioneers who founded this country. But it sounds to me like outdoors55 thinks I'm mocking or tearing down what he is doing and that was not the intention at all but the young new steel guys are very defensive. also most never us there knives period .
true, these autistic fucks that buy 500$ sharpening tormeks to open envelopes are hilarious, cancer to the real outdoor community
For those of us in the "real world" your last video was absolutely conclusive. I never noticed a difference in edge between my cheaper and pricier knives. Don't ever let some armchair commando get to you. You put out great, subjective videos. Keep up the good work.
Real world test with to many variables. That's ok with me. People don't like? Deal with it hippy. He is using it like a normal person in everyday life. Gahhhhh
The devil is in the variables. Or is that details??đ Thanks for the commentđ
What you did was scientific. Maybe not under controlled laboratory conditions; but you had a question, hypothesis, falsifiable hypothesis, observations, and conclusions.
Fifty đđŒđđŒ. Very well said. Your last video was directed to guys like me. I got my first pocketknife 52 years ago. spent several summers working at a Scout camp, cutting rope and sticks, and teaching kids how to use and sharpen a knife.
I've never had a high dollar knife or a fancy sharpening "system". I use a combination of Norton India stones and natural Arkansas stones. My edges aren't perfect but they'll pop hair off my arm. That's all that most of us need.
I thought it was a good video for those of us that live in the real world and use our knives for real tasks.
Thanks for sharing. Sorry you caught shit over it.
Didn't really catch any crap over it. Just that it may be unbelievable and thus the results were to be ignored. Not a big deal. I just show what I film. It surprised me too. Not saying I didn't screw up the test in any way, just that I'm just some guy cutting stuff and showing the results on the internetđ Thanks for the comment!
As someone who works with computers, I certainly do expect more expensive solutions to be harder to use. When you're paying half a million for a software solution, you can also afford a full time employee to deploy and maintain it, so the companies developing those solutions don't bother polishing them like they do the mass market stuff. Another example would be strong cars - they're harder to drive.
And I don't think that's unreasonable: if you're willing to invest a lot of money in a high end product, why wouldn't you be willing to also invest some time into learning how to use it?
What I took from the video is that at a certain quality of steel, one reaches a point of deminishing returns when trying to improve on it. The Seven Dollar Knife episode showed what poor steel with poor tempering is...poor in quality. So a thirty dollar knife is much, much better than the seven. The sixty dollar knife, however, isn't going to have the same jump in quality of steel, as all quality steels are going to perform similarly - at least in the experience of the Average Joe.
Youâre my favorite channel
Thanks!
Stellar videos and I agree with you 1000%. The beauty of buying a more expensive blade for âbushcraftâ should be easier to maintain with longer edge retention. I think your 1080 knife was more effective in edge retention. We as a consumer are getting hosed more and more by large companies. We fall for their â marketing BSâ. Keep doing what youâre doing, itâs very educational as well as inspirational. Thank you!
Some of it may be marketing, and some may not. The problem comes when its time to test under controlled conditions. Something very few can actually do. There are so many variables to this. Thanks for the comment my friend!
What matters to me is how field serviceable (including sharpening) a knife is. If I can't sharpen it when I am away from specialized tools, the knife is not practical to me no matter how fabulous the specs could be on paper. I think your last video was right on the money.
I agree, if you do actually need diamonds in order to get the most out of a certain steel (this is not a proven fact) whats the point? And exactly how much better that particular steel is is hard to prove. Don't get me wrong there are some knives with cheap steel and a cheap heat treating that are terrible and roll the fir time anything is cut. But thats more up to the manufacture not the steel. Thanks for the comment!
I love your vids. great job
Thank you!
Thanks for adding another data point in the world of knife research ; ) This knife nut will always be intrigued!
It looked like a perfectly valid test to me. I certainly agree with your opinion on the different steels. Normally when people pay more they certainly don't expect the more expensive product to be more difficult to service or operate. Keep up the great work!!
Well, thanks for the inspiration you gave!! Iâm no specialist but I like and enjoy these vids. Waiting for the next brother
I like your videos. You helped me make my first knife. I use my knives like your test in your last video.
Awesome!đ Thanks for watching my friend! I really appreciate itđ
Great channel, and thatâs conclusive ... donât sweat it mate. Your an inspiration to a lot of us đđ
Your sharpening videos are my favourite. Iâm very happy to take your experience on board and have had much time for haters
You did fine, you made excellent points, you were transparent in your presentation and position...and you were "real world". Proud of you...
I agree with your conclusions in your previous video. I picked up a Spyderco Tenacious, used, after reading that it was your favorite "cheap" knife and it has kept an edge just as well as my brand new ZT 0220 with S35VN steel. I've even found the same results with my Ontario Rat 1 with D2 steel. All are razor shaving sharp and all keep they're edge with relatively the same amount of use. Anyway, love your videos. Keep it up. And I'm glad to see that the Spyderco Endura is your favorite knife, as of now, because I am looking to pick that up next !!!
One of my fav knife channels ! Keep up the good work !!!
Thanks my friend!
You are right on the mark. Do what works for you. The others can go their own way.
Sensational! Well said my friend. My sentiments echo yours exactly. Thanks for sharing!!
I personally love the way you discribe certain topics. I have myself not so much with all the theories but more with the practice and how you should deal with it. I ame improving my beginner skills with your video's. Keep up the good work!!
Thanks for the comment my friend!
To me you have made perfect sense on the subject !
Why should we have to jump through hoops and be an expert on so many aspects of metal, just to have a good knife !
Isn't that part of why we pay the extra cost of owning a better than average knife ? You can't always have at hand the " special " tools to put an edge on a blade when you're out just dealing with life ! I would think that the goal and end result from the knife makers would be to give us a better quality object, with ease of maintenance, so we are willing to pay more for it......... and expect that to be true !
From what I've seen so far I believe you to be a pretty good guy and level headed, so I wouldn't worry too much about the trouble makers ! đ
Thanks for sharing and take care. đ
I'm with you on that man. No BS real life stuff. Keep it up man!
Thanks man!
I think that last video was solid, it shows real world testing, I wouldn't worry about it, keep up the good work, nice to see real world testing done well!
Know that this is old but I think you did a great job of testing. I've tried some higher end steel's and I just don't care for most. I love 8cr13mov aus 8 and 1095 or sk5 they work great and hold a good edge in my everyday use. Please keep up the good work.
I am perfectly fine with your previous video on the edge retention of the different steels and I would agree on your approach. I stay completely away from the "other" online knife forums as I usually read about a bunch of puffed up heads claiming to know everything about blades of which I don't need to waste my time on.
Great thoughts and opinions. I fully agree with you. I think more effort should be required to get the most of the cheaper steels than vice versa and in those cases edge geometry is the most important factor. Thank you for your efforts and thoughts!
I agree, why is it we spend so much time trying to figure out what works best for s30v or s110v and not spend any time on 8cr13mov? Its just written off as if it was nothing. Maybe there a lot more potential in there then we realize. If s30v needs diamonds, then how to we know 8cr13 doesn't need 30000 grit? Just a thoughđ€đ
I think your videos are awesome. As somebody that uses a knife every single day for multiple cutting tasks you have proven to me as an amateur knife sharpener that the quality of the steel has very little to do with every day cutting tasks.I will definitely keep this in my opinion of the steels that I buy in the future.
i think you did a fantastic job and even though its a touchy subject i believe you did a fair comparison and a great point if you spend more for something you should expect it to outperform using the same process
Good videos & honest presentation.... keep making vids and Iâll keep watching ...
Im new to all this knife making i cant tell the difference between steals but for what I use a knife your videos help me alot. Keep on doing what u been doing. People take things wat to dam serious. Some of us dont even care about all the details if it cuts what im trying to cut well.... thats all I nead. Keep up the good work.
I totally agree with you. If you are paying for a higher quality then you should see it no matter what. Your doing fine and don't let them get to you, don't need their negativity!
Don't worry any about what others say. If it does what you want, the way you want, when you want, it's more than good enough. You know what they say about opinions..... I carry two knives, one cheap, and one of better quality. I prefer to use the chesp knife when outside, or on the water. If I lose it I won't be to upset. The more expensive one is for exact cutting, or things the other blades dull to fast on. I enjoy your videos, please keep it up!!!
Your videos are great, and I am pretty sure most of the people agree with me, keep it up broda!!
I agree 150%! If it cost that much and they keep telling me how much better it is than other steels, then I should be able to see and tell a difference! Alex, I believe that you are really on to something with this, could be that they know that if they build a knife that last that long, the less money they will make because nobody needs to buy another knife so soon! For that kind of money, these problems should be getting better...not worse!
If your last video didnât illustrate your point I donât know what can. I think it was well done. I would definitely buy the knife you made.
I agree with the edge retension video, coming from a beginner blademaker Alex....
Amen Alex! I agree with everything you said. I wouldnât worry about upsetting the CZcams âexpertsâ. Most of them are just repeating what theyâve read other people saying as if it were gospel, with no real world experience to back it up. I love your channel and everything you are doing. A real guy doing real world stuff with everyday tools. Keep on keeping it real brother! đđŒ
A supersteel I fancy trying is the spyderco H1 blades for there rust proof properties. I thought it was a great test and agree you pay more it should be easier to sharpen and last longer. I understand a few steels are hard to sharpen but the edge is suposed to last so much longer. Also the more expensive steels apparently often take we'll to a simple touch up with a ceramic rod or a strop. That would be interesting to test also.
I would really like to see that diomand compound being used on the s30v though! It peaked my interest to see if that would help with the retention of the "super steels" I really like your videos just the same, you're an awesome channel full of great content. Thanks a lot!
Im intrigued myself, although I doubt it would significantly boost edge retention. The difference would be hard to measure. We can say the same for the 8cr13mov. How do we know each knife is sharpened optimally to the best of its ability? Just a thoughđ
I'll add an analogy here to Car Tires.
Excluding the extreme of Mudders or Racing Slicks, High performance tires will generally make a car perform better than lower performance tires. However, the actual benefit will always be restricted by the car and other components, the driver and how its actually used.
Putting a set of Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 on your minivan may be great, but you won't get that much more performance from them unless you also upgrade the suspension, engine, and finally the driver.
If the suspension, engine and driver are all kept the same, its not likely that you will see a large difference between a cheaper but still quality Sumitomo and the high performance Michelin.
Would I expect a difference in cutting between super steels and regular steels, YES.
Should I expect the size of that difference to be dependent on other factors, such as sharpening job, type of use, et cetera, YES.
Your testing was great info. I paid a lot of money for expensive steels and Iâm surprised they are equal to some of my lower end steels. I prefer to sharpen frequently. You donât have to explain to the trolls. Great videos, i look forward to the next one
At 3:48 ish, I totally understand and agree with what you're saying Alex. Like sneakers, pocketbooks and watches, often times I think we are paying for the name and not the metal. At no point have you EVER said or proclaimed to be a knife expert, it was simply an edge retention exercise on video. It's frustrating and sad that we have to put a disclaimer on every frickn video to prevent the CZcams zealots from imploding. All the best Alex!
Controversy does get views though lol. Although I try to stay away form it as much as possible. Thanks for the comment Kevinđ
Thank you for a great video. As you said, there is a lot of conflicting information out there. In my opinion, any decent steel, sharpened on any decent stone should give fantastic results. If the results aren't up to par, make a video of the sharpening technique and start there, or have someone watch you sharpen. Once again: decent steel and decent stone should yield fantastic results.
Very true!đ
Nice work Alex. I thought the edge retention video was revealing and well done.
Thanks man!
Ease of sharpening is why I love super steels. You schmucks all chasing after the latest and greatest, leaving the easy to sharpen, proven blade steels, to plummet in price. Thus allowing me to remain solvent, and pick up great knives, at bargain basement prices. Keep up the good work, by chasing that elusive unicorn, guys. Thanks :)
Amen brother. Better steel should be....well better. Everybody will have a steel that suits them. 1095 or 01 is fine for me, I can easily maintain them. I have a few other steels in folders but have not delved into the "exotics". I have simple tastes I guess lol. Take care, Wade.
You are paying extra money to get worse edge-holding that is extremely hard to sharpen cleanly, with a crisp thin micro-bevel. My favourites are 420J (unless -30 C weather is in the cards) and 5160 for Carbon. 440 will do very well, but is a real pain to break the wire edge and then micro-bevel cleanly...
Good work on these videos.
I found your testing to be sound. You can't film the whole process. I believe you to have integrity. Those results were just strange. Keep up the good work.đ
Well, ill let you know, I had about 3 hours of video for that particular test video. And I did a lot more then what I showed. I didn't show some of it as I need to keeps these relatively short (no one wants to watch a guy cutting cardboard for 3 hours). For any edge retention testing there has to be some integrity from the tester. The results surprised me as well, and I almost didn't publish the video as I didn't want it to be taken the wrong way. Thanks for the comment my friend!
I have tested a couple of knives to check their steels. I used the 3/8" twisted sisal rope on a wood cutting board. I was very happy to get similar results to Pete at Cedric & Ada's channel. Now I have seen some drastic differences in s35vn. Some companies do it better in my opinion. I do not own any s30v. I was just happy to get similar numbers to his charts. I don't really have a way to share those numbers with anybody so I appreciate guys like you. You do the work and film it so people can learn from it. Keep up the good work and remember some of us really thank you no matter the results.
As I've been watching your channel for a while, I've learned to take knives with a grain of salt from what everyone says (S90v against S30v -- you get the picture) and if I like the look of the knife, I may as well purchase it. Great content as always, would love to start making knives out of 1080
I think youâve made some excellent points about blade steel. The need to know your blade steel is paramount. And this is why most people cannot see the difference between a an expensive steel vs. common 440a or the alphabet soup of similarly graded steel. Not to mention this is also why most people are more than happy with their SAKs and Buck 110s. Trolls will be trolls. Ignore them.
Well Said!
Simply put, your most valuable knife will always be the one that's closest to you when you need it. At that point, what it's made of will not be as important as it's ability to cut. Whatever knife you've got, just keep it sharp and hone it after you use it, as even the most expensive steels won't magically maintain themselves.
I think what you did was fair and I like this channel because it is real world. Glad to see you could make a video without having your neighbors out with thier fleet of lawn mowers!
haha I have that problem in the next video. one reason I have to resort to voice over. Thanks for the commentđ
Totes agree Alex, to me I'm sharpening my S30v the same amount of time as I sharpened my AUS8, does that make it bad, no, for one I can say it is a hell of a lot more robust, dropped my PM2 right on the tip and nothing happened but my rat2's tip is gone in a similar accident.
if it works and your happy with the results thats all that matters. Pushing boundaries of whats possible is another thing. đ Thanks for the comment my friend!
Actually I have thought the same way for some years I have a Byrd Cara Cara 2 that holds a great edge and gets razor sharp
I liked the video and have two observations. One, sounds like an opportunity for a knife steel geek to put together a sharpening guide for different steels. Two, philosophically, I hate to disillusion anyone, but all the easy "science" has been done. All the subjects with only one confounder have all been thoroughly researched. IMHO
Keep fightin the good fight great video man
Haha thanks man!
"What steel is best, is not the same for everybody". I think this should be a Hall of Fame quote. Super philosophical... perhaps even some spiritual inspiration from the steel itself.
If you work in a salt water environment corrosion resistance would be #1 in my book. Thanks for the comment my friend!
Thumbs up!
Just wanted to add that I do consider your last video relevant, and you may want to add this to your own argumentation, because it shows that the actual difference in edge retention is influenced far less by the use of the knife, but rather by time, environmental conditions, corrosion/oxidation, and so on. So the "better" steel will not so much keep the blade sharper while using it, as much as it will keep its sharpness over time while not using it. To me, your video showed that when you're intending the knife to be used intensively (daily heavy use) it's better to focus on having a steel that is easy to sharpen and sharpen it daily, than spending a lot of money on steel that raises hopes of not having to sharpen it so often, only to end up having to sharpen it daily too, but at special difficult angles and on expensive stones... On the other hand, if it's a knife that just needs to look good, or a knife that will only be used in emergencies, you'll want it to be still sharp when you finally end up using it, so in such a case, a more expensive steel would be justified.
$0.02 Luke
oh, and it really is a pity that you have to go so far out of your way for disclaimers and apologies, when you clearly stated off the bat that you are not presuming to portray scientific results. The stuff you do is accessible and repeatable, and therefor holds value in its own way.
Yeah theres more to knives then just edge retention. But, edge retention is what everyone talks about when a new steel hits the market. Not corrosion resistance or toughness or whatever. There may be a difference between these two steels, I'm just not able to tell. The next video will be more telling (in editing now). I go pretty far beyond what most testers do. Thanks for the comment!đ
In my opinion, real world testing is a much better proof and much more tangible. A blade steel shouldn't be judged only on one aspect. Edge retention is a good thing to keep in mind but I'm not sure I'd like to have a bushcraft blade in s110v. It may chip easier because it's not as tough as good old fashion high carbon steel and if it does chip, it's much harder to get back to a working edge out in the field. Choose the right steel for the right type of blade! Your testing was sound. Some would say there wasn't enough control over variables but how often do you think about how you use your knife when you take it out? Personally, I take out my blade when I need something cut, no matter what the circumstance and I don't think twice about controlled circumstances when I do use it.
Iâve always felt like S30V was overrated, but my only knife with S30V was an old PM2 that had really poor edge retention...Maybe I got a lemon, but the edge would roll after literally only a few cuts of cardboard. I recently bought a Hogue EX04 with 154CM which the steel experts online say is very soft. This knife has a thin hollow ground edge, and the edge has held up very well (much better than other knives I own), and has been easy to maintain. Hogue does that cryogenic treatment. Itâs probably true that the steel treatment is more important than the steel type.
Thats my findings as well. Heat treatment is huge! A bad heat treatment can turn any steel to mush and vice-versa. Thanks for the comment my friend!
You real world test was honest and fair. As a knife maker for 30+ years I take a lot of the hype around super steels with a grain of salt. Forums and experts are relatively far removed from "real world ." I don't give a damn what a steel performs like in a lab test. Also don't care how a steel used in industry to cut veneer off a 10 foot tropical hardwood log is supposed to perform at it's task at the mill. How does work on the end of your knife handle - period. Save the graphs and the mumbo jumbo the experts like to throw out about the new steels available NOW! If we take a step back and do what you have done in your tests, you get a clearer picture of what's really going on. Relax. Everything is fine. Use what you know works and chuckle about the fury people defend a 1% improvement in a specific category means. Good job on calling BS on the steel mania going on . Don't get in too deep with this. It's a waste of time. Everyone has someone they are trying to sell- right?
Hope you didn't get too much hate for the last video. I for one appreciated another independent test and the real world conditions are nice too. Keep up the good work!
No hate, just misunderstanding what the test was supposed to signify. Thanks for the comment man!
Alex. Watch Big Brown Bears last vid about sharpening s30v on a Spyderco sharpmaker and no strop! He got almost 300 cuts on rope. So 800 grit to a burr and knock the burr off gently and have right at it !!!
Iâm just finishing up my follow up test video as we speak. It will be out hopefully Friday. My numbers are slightly different....đ€ Thanks Iâll try to check it out.
Hallo I'm iwan from south Africa and I have to say that's real word tests stuff I cut daily and I agree 100% with you I don't get y people have to come up with crap man don't stress over there pety shit you rock and help me a lot with my hobby with knifes keep up the good work man I would like to learn more stuff from you that's for that love that "spider co" you made your self
It's a shame that you had to post this explanatory video for something that should have been obvious, but hey. Keep up the great work, man. I love what you do.
To me what u showed was perfectly good as real world test! And sharpening stones differences are irrelevant. Maybe the angle is important but if your sharpening them the same at same angle it should nullify that.
Real world usage and testing may not be a "scientific test". But if you trust the guy doing the testing (which I do) it can be just as useful if not more than the technical data. When it comes down to it, I really don't care if my knife meets some arbitrary rockwell hardness number to be considered a good blade. I can't afford MaxametÂź or whatever the labs and scientists say is the absolute best blade steel this month. What I'm interested in finding is the blade steel that performs 99% as good when actually using the knife to do something in the real world at a fraction of the cost.
I like your testing, and I would love to see more. I would love for us to be able to zero in on the blade steel or steels that are just as useful as the hottest "flavor of the month" steel that is still cheap and easily obtained. Nice job.
I like knives. I have a lot of knives. I use my knife many times every day, and I've been carrying a knife for about 35 years. In my experience, 420 steel is to soft, 420HC, 440C is just right and s30v and everything above is unnecessary. For carbon steel, 1075 will do, but 1095 is worth it. I think the real differences are about the heat treatment. There are good brands and not so good brands, but I never had a bad blade made in Europe or US.
Your last video was well done! Seeing is believing! So the Haters can just go ahead and Hate on something else! By the way youâre an Epic Artist!
Thanks for the comment! I think theres something to be said for both styles of testing. Not so much as hating, its just a different result that surprised and confused me as well. I will be retesting in the future.đ Again thanks for the comment!
Cheaper does not equals worse in my book. We live in a world of constant innovation and rapid obsolescence where to be new frequently means to the consumer to be better. Knife hobbyist should remember that material science provides steels for specific job to be done and cutlery is just a small part of steel manufacturing. I am not sure if man can (in a long run) get the same consistent results sharpening different steels the same way and achieving similar results (in comparable initial sharpens and overall edge retention). I am figuring that for myself for some quiet time. Keep the good work.
No and in some cases cheap may mean better. It also comes down to heat treating as well. Although thats a whole different topicđ Thanks for the comment my friend!
Hey I'm with you on if you pay 4x more, it should be a little better... I'm actually considering getting myself a sanding belt just to get a sharp knife pretty quick and call it a day. How do you feel about sharpening knives with those things?
It can be done and done well if you are willing to put in the practice. Most custom knife makes only use their 2x72 belt grinder to sharpen. Care just needs to be taken to keep from over heating the apex. just a thoughtđ
If you want to pay more for an exotic super steel and that brings you some happiness, then cool go for it. If you want to research all aspects of said steel to get the most out of it, and that brings you joy, then great go for it.
If you want to buy a knife for some other reason (price, brand, ergonomics, looks etc.) Use it till it's dul and sharpen it back up, and that makes you happy then awesome, go for it!
Don't beet yourself up.. you don't have to defend yourself as we got what you ment and what you was saying . Keep up the grate content..
I also want to clarify my comment that I made on the video. I wonder if the chuck sandpaper test would work better with a higher grit. No way should that method have failed in theory because you turned your drill into a primitive belt sander. Oh and I really enjoyed the video though because you were showing these things in a real world environment.
Agree with you. Steel by itself doesnât make much of a difference being minimal quality... the difference will really come down to technique of forging and heat treating by the blacksmith, how hard and how much carbon the blade is, how less chromium it has (the less the better) and how steep of an angle is the blade sharpened. So itâs more of how someone makes and sharpens the blade as long as you have a minimal quality of steel.
The less chromium and more carbon a blade has, the finer will be its grain structure and the much much faster itâll sharpen well, as well as holding a steeper (sharper) angle, also the harder it may get (63~67HRC+) and be still usable. And thatâs it, basically.
Again: high alloy steels do feel always much harder to sharpen (when itâs less than 90% iron) compared to good, well heat treated, carbon steels...
I agree with you on the steel sharpening thing. Why pay more for a blade when you have to do more work to get it sharp? Makes no sense to me.
for me its the law of diminishing returns. At what point does it become not worth it. Unless its a hobby and something you enjoy. In which case đđ
At the end of the day you stated that YOU clearly couldnât tell any difference from being the person using them. They were your findings. How can people twist not only what you said but what you did that poorly? Donât be so down on yourself bud, thanks for bringing such great content to all of us.
Well, edge retention can be largely subjective. It comes down to the tester to determine what is sharp, and what is not. Maybe I made a mistake, maybe I didn't. Maybe I'm just some guy cutting stuff in his shed..actually, thats exactly what I'm doing.đ Not a scientific test but a real world example. Both have there merits in my opinion..but again thats just my opinionđ Thanks for the comment my friend!
Hello, I saw your video and found it to be so interesting. If you donât mind, I come from more of a kitchen knife background and I may be really wrong, but how come it seems like outdoor knives focus so much on steels vs heat treatments? Again, coming from the kitchen world iâd think more than the steel, the higher rockwell knife rating would generally have better edge retention. Again not trying to be controversial but just asking an honest question. Thanks!
You are completely right. You just demonstrated the IN REAL LIFE USE, the knife producer should do better in order to justify the premium-pricing in some knifes. Chapeu
Well said! There are two types of people who sharpen knives (I'm not criticizing either, just giving an observation). Some want a perfect angle and get use a fancy jig to achieve that. The other, is using an old pocket stone, not thinking about angle so much, but just putting a working edge on it.
haha! theres a third...the one who uses bothđ Thanks for the comment!
OUTDOORS55 good point. God bless!
Many knife folk would I suspect put a quick, working edge on their mainstream kitchen knives & perhaps a beater folder/outdoor fixed blade and save the 30 minute, mirror polish edge-pro edge for their fancy, higher end personal folder. It's no different to your hot rod or weekend, fun car/bike which many folk will lavish much time & money on versus the work day commuter or work place truck that suffers from car park dings plus being driven by a heap of people. Different strokes for diff folks etc.
I really enjoy your videos for their honesty and down to earthness. Lots of channels with your numbers drift up into ever fancier stuff which many of us just can't afford. Keep doing what you do please.
MountMan: What you said is exactly what I do. Some of my knives get a screaming sharp polished edge, and the 'beaters' get a great edge, without the super special attention.
Watch the video Big Brown Bear just posted yesterday on S30V. Sharpened to 15 dps no strop and then cut rope until dull. Definately informative.
I trust your experience more than I trust some "expert".
I have a suggestion for you... can you make a video about knife bevel case hardening? There's no video about it online.
Im not familiar with bevel case hardening. Ive never heard of it either. đ€
OUTDOORS55
Case hardening is a way to harden the suface of the steel while the inner steel stays soft and flexible. Have a look at this to get the idea.
czcams.com/video/jONN5lOYXto/video.html
So true The manufacturer does not use different stones to sharpen difference steels they use the same damn belt and grits that they do for any other project maybe there is a special case here or there but generally overall if I send my knife into benchmade for their life sharp service I guarantee you theyâre not gonna use a special belt or stone to sharpen my knife that is in a high quality steel now Iâm sure There are some differences in the blades steels but I canât Agree with you more that in real use thereâs probably not that big of a difference unless youâre on CZcams cutting nothing but paper lol keep up the great videos
My Tenacious and CRKT knives both have 8cr13mov, but my Tenacious stays sharper longer. What factors play into that?
Spyderco probably did a better heat treatment.
@@alexlee1905 and the blade grind probably.
Alex, to the haters- I work in the electrical and shipping trades. I use a pocket knife and/or electrical scissors every day... And not always for cutting something. đ
Alex, has shown many guys like myself how to get the most out of their edge tools and bring them back to life when needed. The guy is passionate about his craft and it shows in his knife building videos. Any craftsman who takes their 20,30,40 hour build, shows how they did it to the public for free, then takes it outside to beat on it with a log, in order to cut another log in half, has my respect. And bonus if his guidance/ experience saves me $500 over the purchase of a few bladed in the future.
Thanks for questioning Alex.
Concerning high end steel/bladed.... I do miss my old microtech ultratech. Sooo pretty!
Thanks for the kind words my friend! I wouldnât say itâs haters hating, just a misunderstanding of what the video was supposed to represent. Iâm by no means an expert and failure is always an option đ So, sure I can screw up a test. It was just never supposed to be a super scientific test in the first place. Just a guy cutting stuff in his shed. Scientific testing has its place, but so does real world testing. A lot of this is super subjective as well. So thereâs that...lol. Again thanks for the comment đ
Don't beat yourself up, keep doing what you do, lots of us like it đ
Not beating myself up, just wanted to clarify. The next test should be more telling. And it will probably the last edge retention test I do lolđ
"CATRA testing does consistently show the S30V to be a better edge holder by 60-80% than 8Cr as we've been using it. We believe our heat treat is optimal for both materials." -Sal Glesser
Personally, I think 80% is really pushing it.
It depends. Key word in that quote is "believe". Im sure under laboratory testing there is a difference. However there is a margin of error, 60-80% is a large range. Why is that range so great? If everything is equal then there should be an exact difference under every test. Problem is, there are so many variables even under laboratory conditions it may be hard to draw a conclusion on what that difference actually is. And over what range of time that difference can occur. Does that 60-80% happen over the course of 10 cuts or 1000 cuts? If 8cr13mov stops cutting at 6 cuts and the s30v at 10 then there not much of a difference. If the 8cr13mov stops at 600 and the s30v stops at 1000 than there is a larger difference, and so on. It all comes down to the perimeters set by the test. But I agree I feel 80% is large as wellđ
Type in "Cutting Test Machine CATRA semi-automatic" in youtube search bar if you haven't seen the testing method (?). It looks like a well designed test.
Also, IF the heat treatment varies from batch to batch that could explain a lot.
Yep, ive seen it and read all about it. đ one problem is that it relies heavily on edge geometry so one Knife canât be compared to another with different geometry. Just a thought đ
I agree with you Alex. If im paying a lot of money on a knife then, imo, i should be able to get a sharper edge after sharpening and that edge should last longer...in real world situations. Period.
Much like guns...you got your $3,000 pistols and then your $600 pistols that do the same job almost as well. Its just subjective who thinks the extra $2400 is worth it. Same with cars, but i digress.
I like your videos and agree with you about everything you said, sorry about the trolls.
Besides a VG10 Police (the stepping out knife) via Spyderco, and a Cold Steel 4-Max as a daily do everything EDC, I just figured I'd use the Spyderco Sharpmaker for tunE ups(?) what's the edge angles? What's recommended? It all starts to get really grey and fuzzy, and ask questions like that? Nobod really knows. I've asked! I like factory, i believe THEY know best. DON'T apologise for speaking what you believe, even if its just at that moment. Don't get too serious. FORUMS?? I, as a ''making a living for 23 years in the fishing biz'', DON'T DO FORUMS! TOO MUCH BS. My j-o-b has zero to do with billy-bob's weekend pass-time. Problem is.....ANYONE on a channel like this (if its making $$ or not) will be looked at as a expert. Some may never ever take into account, you may do video's, make knives, JUST FOR FUN.
Good follow up video for your point which is what's "better" is always circumstanctial and not just objective.
Don't let anything get to you man it's not as if you were saying the sun is actually a cantaloupe not a star. People on forums in a lot of cases are basement dwelling keyboard warriors anyways. Stay awesome man đ
Several hours I posted that video I wanted to make a clarification video. I just didn't get the chance till today (been out of town). I didn't want it to seem as if I though I was doing a very controlled, scientific, test. It is what it is. Just me cutting up a bunch of stuff trying to tell a difference. Thanks for the comment man!
OUTDOORS55
Yes and people with a little common sense understand this ! đ
Like a lot you statement about a better metal for knife. It depends on the use. I am tired of a lot of people saying this is better than that one because it has this or that type of steel, but at the end of the day cannot mention a single difference between the steels.
Your paying for a higher quality steal that has the possibility to become sharper or stronger. No-one said it was an easy path to achieve shuch sharpness. For most knifes cheap steal will be just fine.
I mean, it is technically a scientific experiment. It's just that the data you are looking for might not require the control of variables that orher experiments might.
To a certain kind of person there is great status in owning a knife that is made from an exotic "super" steel just based on how much it cost or how hard it is to get one, has nothing at all to do with how good the knife is. Just my opinion...
There definitely is. S110v just makes you feel goodđ đ