Why The Standard Scuba Setup Is Wrong!
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- čas přidán 8. 08. 2019
- Why The Standard Scuba Setup Is Wrong!
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So this one may ruffle some feathers, and to all of those who say we’re only here to sell things, we’re looking at everything that’s wrong with the standard scuba setup. Just like many things in life when you first start out there are guides on all the gear that you need to go scuba diving but again, just as most things in life if you invest in all of the gear you then need to spend the next bunch of dives streamlining and cutting down what you’ve just invested in because, yeah, why would you know that cheap steel knives rust after one dive if you don’t clean it properly, there are some things that you just don’t need and some things that are just plain wrong with the basic setup
So let's take a closer look at Why The Standard Scuba Setup Is Wrong!
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Presenter(s): Mark Newman
Writer(s): Mark Newman
Editor(s): Shaun Johnson
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But Mark, backplates and long hoses are for technical divers. I just dive for fun and I don't want to have to learn how to use better equipment!
Just kidding!! But I know someone today is going to post that comment! Unfortunately, it will probably be someone who has been talked down to in the past by someone in the tech community! (Boooo! Not cool!!)
Seriously, a primary-donate regulator set up and a nice, streamlined backplate/wing are super great even on a 15m recreational dive in the tropics! You don't need tech training for it, you don't need years of experience, anyone can do it! A lot of stuff used in recreational diving was originally dreamt up by tech divers to solve some problem. Octos, for instance, came from tech diving and now every OW student learns to donate an Octo on day one in the pool! Don't feel you need to cling to your jacket and that tiny little octo hose because that happens to still be the standard that new students are taught on!
I know of at least one shop near me that trains their OW students on backplates with a long-hose setup... so hopefully that catches on! Loved the video!
#FlappySnagHazard
Seconded.
Amen to this bro
Well said! Love my bp/wing for everything
I'm still working on getting down to zero hoses and zero drag. ;-)
Still not sure if I want to go bp/w or just sidemount for everything. Any thoughts?
Instead of an octo with a long house, I just bring a spare air.
Then when a panicked diver gets near me, I used it to club them over the head to knock them unconscious so I can rescue them.
Remember me to not panic near you in the water 😂😂
Had me in the first half
lmao
I heard that you can only get three good hard whacks with the butt of the bottle before it runs out....
Spare airs are virtually useless
I started diving in the early 1970’s in the southern California area. My instructor was a LA County life guard. We did a lot of beach dives and always swam out with a snorkel because of the wave surge. I still keep my snorkel attached to my mask and have never had any problems with it. I use on the surface before submerging. I did for bed out that a flex snorkel is no good when going through some decent surf, it gets kinked and you cannot breathe! I’ll keep my snorkel attached thank you!
Me too. Total respect for LA County Life Guards.
Diving equipment is all about personal feel. if you like and enjoy diving with a tradition jacket style BCD, awesome! If you feel a comfort level with a snorkel attached, great! Diving experience varies from person to person and thus so will the equipment experience. In saying that, there are great tips/suggestions in this video. Always enjoy Simply Scubas content!
7:02 I always keep my snorkel attached to my mask wherever I go and whatever I do. Call me 'old school' but it gives me extra secure feeling. It's very usefull when staying at the surface on a choppy water while waiting in line to get on the boat. Morever, it's also advised in one of diving safety procedure book. If you ever caught in an emergency situation (i.e. having empty tank and having to wait for a while on the surface), snorkel is very usefull to keep you able to check your position, what's underneath you, or check the depth of the area for the dive boat to safely pick you up. Worst scenario: if you ever need to dump your gear and swim safely to closest island/shore, you definietly will need a snorkel. It's definitely not for everyone, but my snorkel will always there whenever I need it. I wear wing style BCD, don't have pocket to store my snorkel, so I keep the snorkel attached to my mask. Snorkel weights nothing and costs nothing, but might save your life in the future.
Thank you, I couldn't agree more. I think a snorkel is mostly a safety/emergency tool. 99.9% of the time you won't need it. But you never know when that 0.1% dive is. It's such little effort to just have one strapped to your mask. Done right, you barely notice it. One dive I surfaced some distance behind the boat and had to swim against the current back to the boat. My air supply didn't last the trip, I sure was glad with my snorkel in the rough water at that time.
Feeling safe with snorkel straped to your mask is false. It is the best way how to get your mask kicked off by your buddy when moving close to your face. Or how to get entangled to some line or wire or leafs or whatever. You can put snorkel to a pocket and take it out if needed.
Take one on 97% of my dives.
@@petrsedlak4761 That's also works too. But for some old schools it's hard to change the behavior. Both ways has their pros and cons, so it's important to understand those pros and cons and act accordingly during the dive. Thanks for the comment
I ALWAYS keep a snorkel attached and this is why: when I was a newer diver and with a diver operator that I’ll never dive with again, I was sent up to make my 3 min safety stop alone. No problem...I surfaced in really choppy water. Boat captain didn’t see me. I inflated my BCD...and then I started sinking...WTF...re inflated...sinking...re inflated...cycle repeats. The waves were kicking my ass and I kept sinking. I ran out of gas. Tried to manually inflate. Nothing. The only thing that kept me from drowning after sitting there treading water was my snorkel. My BCD was leaking air at the over-pressure relief valve connected to my inflator hose. Yes, I started freaking out. In hindsight, I should’ve dumped my weights first, and if I kept getting dragged down, my BCD as well. Some of the tips on this channel are counter to proper dive safety.
Items I carry for "lost at sea" issues: 1) super bright light - can be seen by boat or plane even in the day, 2) Two 30 gallon orange garbage bags - when blown up, you can't miss those on the sea, 3) world's loudest whistle - makes my ears ring when I blow it, 4) I also have orange fins that I can take off and lift out of the water and waive at the boat if I need to.
Yeah, bright colours!! who are the idiots make most scuba kit in black?? Even gloves, how do you clearly see someone's fingers in low Vis?, just stupid
Love your comments, here is one more. I am a firm believer in the primary and octo second being of the same type. First off, why would I have a cheapo second to breath off of when I can get the same quality second for just a few bucks more. Secondly, when travelling, I always have a parts kit, just in case. With two seconds that are the same, I only need one parts kit!
That's exactly what I have. I can also swap between the two second stages from dive to dive to make sure they are both breathing well.
I don’t even own a snorkel. Haven’t used one in years. But as far as my equipment goes, it’s been custom built specifically for me. I suffered from a severe broken back in 2003 which has left me with a lifetime of major back issues. I was told that my diving days were now behind me. I thought...like hell they are! But they actually were...for a really long, long 13 years. It actually took that long to get back on my feet. But the second my doctor FINALLY cleared me to start back doing light activities, I hired myself a trainer and went to work rebuilding my body back up so I could start scuba diving again. And after a year of that, I was further cleared to start diving again. So I had a custom made kit built to accommodate my back. I also took a refresher course followed by a drysuit diving course. A kit with the standard, typical 80 cf tank hangs too far off my back pulling my center of gravity away from my spine. so I dive with double 40’s with a pony bottle stuck in between. They hug my back perfectly while not placing anything directly against my spine. My tanks feed an tri-position air valve (main/off/reserve) which in turn feeds the second stage of my regulator, which, incidentally, is built in to my Ocean Reef Predator FFM. So I don’t share my regulator. And I just switch a lever to switch my air source from my twin 40’s to the Pony. Obviously that also switches to an alternate first stage. My alternate 2nd stage is built in to my Zeagle Rescue BCD, a part of the inflation system. Lastly, my backup buoyancy is provided by my drysuit. Air for my BCD comes off my Pony, while the drysuit gets fed by my main tanks. As for hoses, every one has been custom made to my dimensions so there’s none too long or too short. All hoses are fitted with quick disconnects. Those that are critical have locks on the quick disconnects that have to be spun down in order for them to disconnect. Both regulators are connected to the tanks via a dim connection to eliminate having an ‘o’ ring blow out. It’s simply a more secure fitting to happens to entrap the ‘o’ ring. When diving with a buddy (my kit is also set up for solo diving), I carry a small mask and a second stage (with a capped disconnect fitting that can be put on to any LP air hose connection) in my drysuit pocket. I also carry 2 titanium knives (1 on a BCD hose, the other attached to the inside of my leg), a surface marker buoy, a whistle, a compass, and a flashlight. I also have a small LED light that’s attached to my Pony so it’s easier to be seen, so if there’s any murkiness to the water, I’ll turn that on. My gauges are just that, gauges vice a computer (eventually I’ll buy a computer). When diving, I clip them across my chest to a ‘D’ ring via an retractor leash that’s 10 years old and has yet to ever fail. I have a second pressure gauge that’s attached to the backside of my gauge console. That’s for my Pony bottle. This setup gives me 99 cubic feet of air at about the same weight of an 80. It happens to be far more streamlined and brings my center of gravity back in line with my spine which is exactly where I need it. For me it’s the difference between scuba diving or not. That’s because the entire lower half of my back has been fused solid. I’ve had 7 disk and 1 vertebrae removed. This kit works better than any other that I’ve ever used. And while I’ve had other divers tell me that it looks way too complicated, it actually very simple. That’s what’s most important for me, it’s because it works so well that I’ve been able to continue diving even after a devastating injury. I’m currently having a second set of tanks made up, both smaller and considerably lighter, as I manage to get 2 dives off my current tanks. That setup will have twin 30’s and a smaller Pony. Hopefully it’ll be light enough that I’ll be able to scuba dive off my jet ski.
wow, such an amazing story! it's awe-inspiring to see how you've managed to adapt in order to continue diving after such a terrible injury.
Damn, I need both two fins and two boots. One for dry suit, one for wet suit, etc. I have big feet and the larger boot requires a bigger fin. It is all too much stuff.
just changed from a cheap jacket to an OMS smartstream signature BP/W and long hose setup. I'll never go back, it's amazing.
Snorkels are also used when on a mission of maybe 2-5 km dive and surface swim return in rough seas at night with no tank air left. just makes it easier
I have an XS scuba retractor the I have had since 2009. I use it for my dive computer . I've been diving the red Sea and its still works great, shop long and hard for you gear, take care of it and it will last and take care of you
On the snorkle, I think it always good to have options. In pocket is fine if you can get at it easy, but not taking one at all eliminates one of your options.
Sub captions for off screen commentary would be helpful (hard to hear them)
noted!
Agree with all this, except the snorkel. The snorkel is sooo nice to have when you're doing a (speed) boat dive. After passing your bcd to the boat and you have to wait to get on, it is really nice to be able to just chill with your face in the water, not worrying about water in your mouth. It just means I can wait in the water and wait for everybody who does not have a snorkel to hurry back on. Also nice when someone accidentally drops weights in shallow water so you can easily find them and grab them, in general I use it quite often.
When you buy those bluetooth fins, don’t forget to ask for the wireless hoses for your primary, octo and of course inflator! Those are the best! ;)
🤣🤣
Love my harness and backplate. Guilty have not taking a snorkel on a dive in 16 years. Not even sure if I still have one.
I do not recall anyone having a snorkel on any of my dives.
I see you are a man of culture.
You'll change your mind on the 'leave my snorkel at the beach' the first time a dive boat leaves you, or you air-out on your tanks in your 'courtesy stop' near the top, or you have a bud with you on your octo, which messes up your time count for 'surface'...but hey, be cool, bro...there be lots of cool people in Davy Jones' locker...very cold, in fact.
Hmm... lots of D-Rings just means I can pick the perfect spot for the thing I want to clip on. And a snorkel comes also in handy when you do boat dives and you are at the end of your bottle with choppy water on your way back. Maybe even in a rescue situation where you have to float a while till you are found in open sea. I would not leave it in my dive trunk on land....
Maybe it my inexperience, but I agree with you 100%. I definitely prefer to breath through it on long swims rather than consuming my air, but that's just me.
3 D-rings is more than enough. 2 D-rings for stage tanks and SPG. One D-ring for the rest (light, primary regulator, spare double ender). The rest is in your pockets. Including snorkel.
And because you are not diving with stage tanks (i gues), then 2 D-rings is your lucky number :D
100%
I also stumbled over that. 8 D-rings doesn't mean you need to use all of them at once, but that you can choose the perfect spot each time.
Don't try rescue breath using a snorkel with a purge valve 😂
I'm a novice, can you explain why? And how you would know?
Most snorkels these days are the "dry type" with a purge on the bottom and splash guard on the top. Administering rescue breaths with such a snorkel is next to impossible. When I did Rescue Diver training, we were required to use respirator masks, which are the type that work on free flow oxygen systems. Needless to say, I'd sooner use the mask than a snorkel.
For a scuba diving purposes is the best the simplest snorkel without aby valves. It's light, small, durable and non-existing valve can't fail.
I like my snorkel while shore diving. Keeps my face in the water searching for something interesting to dive on without depleting my gas.
So, #1 I use my LONG octo as my primary, as a panicked diver will likely pull what I have out of my mouth. My short reg is on a bungie cord necklace around my neck, so no fiddling. #2 I alway have my snorkel with me, but it is a collapsible one that I keep in my fanny pack kit that is on the dive with me (along with zip ties, an extra flash light, bolt snaps and more). The fanny pack is ease to mount on sidemount BCDs, but you can modify regular BCDs to accommodate this . Even without a fanny pack the collapsible snorkels (some designs roll up) can fit in a pocket-hopefully not to be needed at all. #3 I dive sidemount and even if you use just 1 tank, at least it is where you can reach the valve (useful if you forgot to turn on your tank, also useful if you have free flow from first stage or second stage equipment malfunction- you can 'feather' on/off the tank and not waste the majority of the air- this makes it a safer ascent as you now have time to ascend safely to to boat/shore. Yes this dive IS OVER regardless). #4 you should have a pony bottle and know how to strap it to you to minimize the profile and no dangling.
Hmmmmm.... 2 meter hose for octo. But don't give octo to dive partner. Instead, give primary. Then shouldn't the primary have a 2 meter hose?
good point: as technical 50 trainee (not many dives on tech 50), the 2 meter long hose os for the 2nd that you share, and the principal that you breathe from, has a shorter length than a recreational. So I was thinking, hum, makes sense to give the principal: you know is working, you are not stressed... I think that he meant that you can switch to the principal if the 2nd also fails...
Correct. The two meter hose goes on your primary second stage (the one you breathe from.) In an emergency you would donate your primary to your buddy and *you* switch to the backup (octo?) that is hanging on a necklace around your neck. (It will be on a short hose like you're used to.)
Ahhh my scrolling was a waste of time!
Good good
I definitely agree on no snorkels (dive float line hazard) and that the wing style BCs are better. It's nice not to have a large pocket of air pushing on my chest. I'll never give up my Original Force Fins with simple shock cord straps though! Also guys, if you want to prevent your gear from disappearing, reconsider hot pink.
I totally agree with everything you said in this video. I'm an LA County Under Water Instructor and perform many beach dives. I always have and often use a snorkel especially at dive entry. It is safer and conserves gas. It is also an LA County Requirement to have one with you. Other than that, this is great advice for newbie divers. When I started out, I had every gadget imaginable (still do, but rarely use any of them anymore)- such a waste of money. Now, I am a minimalist- but I still maintain the 2 is 1 and 1 is none redundancy standards.
Thank you for this video and dive safely!
Mark and this channel are wonderful, I Love it. So I utilize the snorkel the same way. Beaches are my primary entry (as opposed to boats) and we often have a moderate surface swim to the dive site. Head in the water, utilizing compass and head up dead reckoning, neutral body position make the swim easier and conserve on the bottle for sure. I do agree with the “don’t take it if you don’t need it” philosophy and a minimalist approach as a rule to keep the hazards at bay. At the end of the day, you consider all of these excellent viewpoints derived from experience and do what makes most sense for you- and of course what is required of you. Best!
Hi Brett ! It would be great Havin your accessories list and knowing which accessories you have ended using ?
Agree that BP/W and primary donate systems are much more efficient...but...you don't have to have a 5ft or 7ft hose to make it work. I dive a primary donate with a 44" hose...I accept that I don't need the distance if I am donating..in fact I want the arm to arm contact so I can control the other diver, nothing like a swift kick to XXXXX to calm someone down.
Bluetooth fins...nah, what we really need are flashing RGB LED fins. Put some lights on that Christmas tree diver!!
🤣🤣🤣
Would make a good "Keep Clear" warning light for other divers nearby.
Nah Bluetooth regs no need for those pesky cables always getting in the way LOL.
Yep, get those port and starboard flashers going... Oh yeah, and the all-important blue light to signal Bluetooth connectivity of our fins to our dive computers so we can track out kicking efficiency and energy burned and then link it with our choice of fitness app and of course our Apple watch?
So yeah, like you said, RGB LED fins.
Wait, are we shitposting or did I accidentally walk into a board room meeting about scuba innovations.
Mine are just yellow, they are plenty easy to spot even if the water get less visible.
just found this vid, in 01 in Scapa we dove with some BSAC folks.
By the time we left i had sold everything but my TLS350 to the BSAC group. Once you go to the 'dark side' there is no looking back...
Let's not forget that all of this is relative to the environment you dive in. Like flat surface or chop, current, shore or boat dives and even the size of the boats and the kind of entry and exit you need to do. Are you diving with a wetsuit or drysuit, gloves and hood? People base these oppinions on what they are used to dive in and this doesn't always work in other envoirments. Most important is that you are properly trained with the equipment you choose to use.
I change my accessories (torch, SBM, snorkel, camera, compass) depending on the envoirment.
Whatever set up you choose to use, make sure you and your buddy know how to use it.
Instead of trying to prepair for every kind of emergency, keep it simple and concentrate on the actuall dive and preventing these emergencies. Most emergencies can be avoided by having good habits.
I often use the snorkel while on the surface. Sometimes you have to wait very long for other divers. When it is wavy it helps not to swallow too much water.
Some comments :
Octopus / Long hose:
When you spoke of a long 2m hose why not just recommend the DIR (doing it right setup of 210cm hose - this is standard amongst the serious dive institutes anyways. so 210 cm long hose thats your primary... from behind your back.. around the right - under the lamp tank and then over left shoulder and around neck to mouth.
2. Wings >> BCD jackets. helps having a great trim in the water -- stay horizontal in the water column
3. dump snorkels altogether.
a whistle on a fin? did I hear correctly.. LOL!!
I think that was a joke because he'd just talked about fins with "too many bells and whistles". I don't think he was actually saying there are fins with whistles on...
Sport diving and tech diving are 2 different things and require different gear and training. After following the tech trend from the 90ies onward I am coming back to basics as a level 2 CMAS instructor with more than 25 years diving experience. I see the benefit of using a separate first stage for your octo (not only in cold water) for sport diving. A slightly longer hose can be nice, 2 meters is too much for rec diving. 1.5m is long enough if not also too long in some situations. BUT if u only find out underwater that your diaphram is ripped or your 2nd reg is blocked in anotherway, a longer hose will NOT help you. Best thing to do in that case is to hand back your OW or whatever degree certification badge!!! (if you make it back, I pray you do)
Planning your dive goes beyond the airplan and swimming direction. It is basically an RI&E analyses per dive(spot) and taking the appropriate gear. Gear checks at home and proper maintenance are part of this as well. You do not need a 2x12 with a couple of stages to go for a 20m max 40minute fun shoredive. A standard BCD with 12-15L tank is sufficient. Your shiny new heavy tech gear and a buddy new to diving can be dangerous. Otherwise, if your gear is not good or insufficient for the dive, you can ask yourself if you should be in the water.
Back to bcd's; If there's a possibility to drift away (from the boat or shore), then for rec diving I would want a very bright colorfull bcd that can hold me face up. Wings don't do this and they are mostly black. When tech diving, captains/crew anticipate on currents and you will also ascent very differently with a marker on the surface. Wings in contrary to most bcd's can carry the additonal weight of stages needed for stops on these dives.
Note to manufacturers: I did find that standard bcd's with weight integration held insufficient upward force on 20+m dives with a single tank. This needs to improve.
Keeping up your skills is more important. Go for regular training dives. Do that assisted ascent again (and again next month) What were the emergency procedures you were tought? Diving once every holiday just isn't enough even with wings, double tanks, long hoses, tech equipment and bluetooth christmas decorations. Use the gear you have been training and are familiar with and go out training again after buying new gear. (did you train with that gopro and extra lights?)
Wings and longhoses require additional skills, these are not tought during OW nor advanced courses, and with a 2x12 this kit can and eventually will take you on a deeper and/or longer dive. Seek an instructor to help you out before you create bad habits (improper use)
Last comment and then I shut up: don't just explore the limitations of (your) diving, you might find these limits and then?
If we were meant to live underwater we would have had gills.
I think tech diving is more of an *extension* of rec diving - not really a whole different kind of diving. Technical diving requires more gear and training due to the more extreme depths/environments you might find yourself in, but there is no reason technical gear can't be scaled back for a nice easy rec dive, nor is there any valid reason that brand new OW students *must* be taught on jacket BCDs and octos. There are shops out there that certify their OW students on backplates and long hoses. Anyone who insists it's harder to teach new students to donate their primary instead of their secondary should really stop and think about it: Handing off a tiny 36" hose to your buddy while making sure it's oriented correctly (not upside-down) and flipping your arm around it so the hose isn't caught in your arm pit? I'd rather just pop the reg out of my mouth and flip the hose out from behind my neck in one smooth motion. The orientation is correct by default and I can use my free hand to put my back up reg in my mouth while my buddy resumes breathing and collects himself... away from my face!
Also:
- Wings don't inherently tip you face down. That's a huge myth. The problem is easily solved with proper weight placement and just not over-inflating the wing at the surface. Your weight should be worn as close to the backplate as possible - not out in front of you where it will tip you forward. I've seen a jacket BCD tip someone face down before. The guy was diving a dry suit and had about 26lbs of lead all crammed into his integrated pockets.
- Backplates can be used with single tanks. That's the best part about them - they are super versatile! I agree there's no need for doubles on a 20m/40min dive, but why would that exclude a backplate? Why drop $800 on a jacket BCD that will only get used for one week out of the year and can *only* be used with a single tank? When I fly, I leave the doubles at home and enjoy the week diving a single AL80 like everyone else. And I make all the other divers look like the Christmas tree divers because I just have a webbing harness on my body - no pockets, no unnecessary bells-and-whistles - just a nice clean front.
- I'm sure there are bright coloured wing covers out there, but if you're diving anywhere where there is current or boat traffic you should be carrying a surface marker. And those things always come in bright colours.
Regarding color of wings, there are a few brands selling wings with different colors. Tecline, OMS, xDEEP (though I think you need to make a custom order) comes to mind. Also, it's not difficult to keep your face up out of the water using a wing, just lean back. If you can't keep your face up in the water using a wing, you are doing something wrong.
You are right they are different. However, the base level of gear can and is the same (excluding side mount) if a rec diver buys a vest when they get started and wants to progress they will most likely want/need a backplate system when they start moving towards Tech level. why not start with a backplate. you will be more trim. less dangly bits all over. and when you do move forward you won't need to replace your whole BCD. thats just one example.
I thought my kit was lacking, now I know its just perfect for me.
Dive knife, whistle, dive light and inflatable surface marker are the only standard auxiliary equipment carry. I carried water proof signal fares but not if there’s any air travel involved to the dive destination.
It seem lot of places require those inflatable surface markers these days.
I switched off as soon as he said "I haven't dived in a traditional jacket BC in some time...."
Firstly, short hose alternates are fine for emergency ascent from 60' as you'll be on the surface in 1 minute (2min if ascending at SSI ascent rate). I train all my studenrs to grab the alternate so they don't accidentally create panic in another diver.
If you're reasoning for not doing this is "in case the alternate is dirty or damaged" I really do not want you diving on my boat.
As for jacket BCs....the primary function of a BC is to operate as a life vest providing positive bouyancy on the surface. A jacket BC holds you in an upright position thus protecting the airway.
Yes, wings and back inflation provide better trim whilst partially inflated under water, but that isn't the primary concern.
The concepts that we learn in technical diving are excellent and extremely important. However, they can complicate situations in recreational diving. This principal is something that inexperienced instructors, or desk jockies who get in the water once a year, fail to understand.
Experienced instructors respect both streams of recreational and technical but keep them seperate.
I do exactly that when diving single-cylinder; use the Hogarthian method for my primary so that if it’s ripped out of my mouth by a panicking buddy then they can have it. Good crossover from Tech diving.
The one exception I have to retractors is my spg
Like the rescue tip with the snorkel. from now on i will bring a foldable snorkel on every dive
🤙
Snorkel is really very useful when you have run out of air and surfaced 200 meters from the boat or shore. So keep one in your BCD pocket for such an occasion.
Excellent, thanks Mark ✌
Where can I buy the white shirt in the bottom left side of the screen? 😊
I just made the change to a 40 inch hose for my primary second stage and it routes under my right arm and I use a swivel to eliminate any hose pull issues. It is a whole new level of freedom.
Yeah, swivels can help if you get one.
OMG! That snorkel rescue breath method blew my mind. I got my rescue dive certification a few years ago it's always great to have more tools in your mental tool box.
jb2cool01 yeah your right, I also heard this the other day on League of extraordinary divers podcast. There are so many purge snorkels out there it would be a waste. But those stowable backup snorkels could do the trick. Most experienced divers ditch the snorkel so why spend so much on a super dry one.
On snorkels I agree that they are annoying, but they are required for dive professionals when performing training. I always dive with mine so that it doesn't feel out of place while conducting training.
ROFLMFAO. Have you ever tried to get your primary back from a diver that ran out of air and is grabbing to your regulator for dear life? Lol.
When your buddy runs out of air, they will fixate on the regulator in your mouth. Just give it to them and use your alternate. that's not how we teach but that's how it works in real life.
Make sure the hose on your primary is long enough. But not 2m. trying to keep control of someone on a 2m long hose is not easy. 1.5 would seem ideal IMO for both your use and when you donate.
Some useful ideas, I like the snorkel tip for rescue breaths.
Cheers!
Judge me how you want. I take a snorkel on almost every dive. Why waste air at the surface. I try to use my manual inflate on the bcd whenever possible. It's also nice to swim face down not on your back if, like you said, "you're looking for the dive site"
Why aren't you checking your octo reg with a breath before your dive?! My jacket BCD has pockets! Holds SMB, radio, spool, buddy line, small light, folding knife and anything else I don't want hanging off me. I agree, I'm not a snorkeler. When doing beach dives with long surface kicks we normally did them on our backs (the kicking is easier); no snorkel needed. Love my inflator/regulator; just donate primary (long hose) and switch (however it did take me a couple of brands to find one that worked well).
Michael Atherton which brand did you end up with?
@@ghostbear8597 Long story. I bought one from DGE that I thought was a Dive Rite, but it seems that they sold the rights to another company. Now Dive Rite doesn't make one and DGE doesn't sell one. Looking at images it now appears to be a ScubaPro Air 2 (with the rectangular deflator button), but I don't know if the internals are the same. I definitely DON'T recommend Aquatec. If possible I'd buy one that came with a BCD, because a tech once told me they need to be "balanced" (not sure if that's true, mine works fine now; others used to free flow). Also, realize that the quick release is larger to allow for greater air flow and you have to have the right hose (it should come with one). Also, you will need extra long corrugated hose so that you're free to move your head. One thing I really like about it is that I always know where it is and you don't have to fumble around for an octo (and you eliminate one hose). Being a former solo diver I also carry a Spare Air when diving deeper than 40'.
Important note of caution: They do require considerable practice because (remember) you're both breathing off of it and deflating (assuming that you'd only be using it during an emergency ascent). I suppose you could be using a dump value if you had a free hand, which you probably wouldn't. Practice, practice, practice. :-)
Michael Atherton that’s what I trained on for AOW. I also purchased Scubapro bcd with air 2, although I was trained to use shoulder dump while using air 2. Glad to hear it’s a reliable 2nd stage.
@@ghostbear8597 In practice with my wife/buddy using recommend (PADI?) holds for emergency ascent (right arm holding her BCD; her right holding mine) you don't have a free hand. :-o It can be confusing.
@@michaelatherton826 The "balance" has to do with the hose. You need a high volume LP inflator hose to drive the air 2 (or any combo octo) so that you do not over breath. The BC itself has no effect on the Air 2 style Octo.
Donate your sure thing primary , for your not so sure is working octo... then if that fails try to take it back from the panicked diver lol what could possibly go wrong. As fantastic as primary donate sounds on paper, im gonna be keeping the reg i know is 100% working for me, because callous as it sounds your own safety should be 1st priority.
Just donate the Octo thats what its there for no need to reinvent the wheel.
i despise putting up a snorkel when i'm you know...don't go snorkeling. Especially with long hair it's just annoying. In the beginning, i have put it on, but it literally tore out my hair after a dive every damn time, so i was like...nope...i don't use it anyways. It worth nothing on the surface if the water is not calm enough anyways. One wave and you'll be spitting out water that got into your snorkel -_-
I am mostly likely the minority having recently got my advanced certified but I have found having the snorkel useful especially swimming out before the dive. I am an air hog (yes need to work on that) but I feel comfortable using it quite often. I get why others dont but it's my dive too right ;)
It most depends on the conditions in which you dive. Where I dive they are not of any use but easily could be for a different location and dive type.
Mark, my dive master said my primary never leaves my mouth under the water, just in case of an emergency my octo can provide my buddy air. Swapping my primary with my buddy if he’s under stress, can lead to more serious problems. I guess that’s where being a compose and good diver comes in handy.
Today August 11th I have my scuba certification 😂😂😁😁😀😀
how did it go?
I passed flying high I got certified at Stuart cove Bahamas
🎉🎉congrats! 🎉🎉
No I’m still here😅😂🤣
Hoses! I hate hoses! I've been a SCUBA instructor since the previous Millenium so usually dive with a 'standard' setup as that is what I teach. But before I started teaching, I used an Air2 type arrangement which gets rid of one dangling thing. Alas, ALL of them are pretty poor at 30m or even shallower and restrict your head movement in an emergency. And I would buy a wireless air pressure gauge if any of dem $$$ things lasted more than a year or two. These days, as a senior citizen, I invariably put on my stuff in the water having asked some young thing to put my gear in the water 😊
I only carry items that I will need for emergency, worst case get lost in the sea, but always buy items that will last long, very important what’s gonna keep me alive on every dive.
Bit confused by the Octo commentary - I get the idea of keeping your Octo yourself and handing over the primary, but if you plan on doing that, then what's the point in having a longer-than-usual hose for the Octo?
love your thougts on octo donation ,,, in a real world oog situation all i can say is that the first thing you will know about it is when your primary is snatched from your mouth and your the one looking for your own octo ,,, pool training is very nice , but in the real event there wont be signals and open gestures , your reg will be gone and with luck you will still have your teeth.
At my diving school in Czechia, we were taught to dive with backplate setup during OWD course, also with 2nd stage on longer hose. I can say I am glad I completed my course there, when i see a video like this. This channel is such an inspiration, keep it up!
Mark, thanks for your great video as ever.
Recently I passed my Padi OW and luckily I got the chance to learn it with the standard setup and with a longhose setup. My first dive after my certification I dove with some borought similar gear. Since then I bought my own set with the same bp/wing and longhose setup. I do not want go back to an jacket bcd and short octo setup. Even if I never will go to the technical diving direction, I like that setup
If you like this after your OW I would suggest you go to another organization where everyone uses this equipment. PADI will not teach you the skills required for this equipment. Take a look if there is diving center that teaches GUE courses near you.
@@carlokop556 Thank you for your advise. I am allready looking for a dive club nearby with divers with the same mindset and equitment.
My question is, when trying a back plate, I had issues wearing a weight belt. What is the best way to wear weight in this configuration? Ditchable vs non ditchable. Any chance on a video on the subject?
You should be able to swim up from depth and be positive at the surface in case of total wing failure (unable to inflate or retain gas). Usually you don't want to ditch all weights because it leads to one another emergency - an uncontrolled ascent from depth.
There's no "one size fits all" best solution.
I guess i feel like if your primary doubles aa your octo, i feel like it's more likely a panicked diver will rip your air from your mouth most likely when you least expect it. If my octo is readily available at my side...bright yellow hose...a panicked diver will most likely go for that first?
Just me thinking out loud.
The other school of thought is that a panicked diver is more likely to grab the reg out of your mouth than go for the one on your side. I don't think either scenario sounds too far fetched.
Panicked divers most often see your bubbles and go for the regulator that's making them... or they may just spit out their own reg and swim hard for the surface completely ignoring everyone around them! Their brain is just screaming at them to go for the nearest guaranteed source of air - they won't stop to consider hose colour.
If you're worried about this here are some tips:
1) Practice regulator recoveries often and get used to going for several seconds without a second stage in your mouth. If it becomes instinctive to automatically start blowing bubbles and search for your reg when it's not in your mouth then you will be way less likely to be caught off guard and freak out yourself should it ever happen. (Practising core skills is an *excellent* way to kill 3 minutes on a safety stop!)
2) Go ahead and switch to a primary-donate (long hose) setup and then practice air donation drills with your buddy every now and then. Switching to your back up reg that is hanging just below your chin is actually super easy and, again, practice giving away your primary will make you all the more prepared for a grabby diver taking it from you!
3) Take a Rescue Diver course. You will learn tons of great techniques for dealing with panicky divers - including how to recognise the signs of someone who is on the verge of freaking out and helping them before they become a danger to themselves or others! As a bonus the course is insanely fun!
I guess we are going have to agree to disagree...if i run out of air, you better believe i will be reaching for the first air source i see. Most likely it will be that available 2nd stage attached to the bright yellow hose hanging down at your side. In less you have a Safe 2nd...then it is getting ripped out of your mouth. That's why I don't like the Safe 2nd/inflator.
Cheers
@@xbpbat21x "...if i run out of air, you better believe i will be reaching for the first air source i see."
You say that, but *have you* ever run out of air? If not, you're just theorizing. Actual data shows that panicked divers often *do* bypass the bright yellow safe second that seems like it would be the first one they see, and instead go for the buddy's primary. That's why it's important to weight yourself and adjust your BCD so that you're seldom doing full exhalations; you want to have a bit of reserve air in your lungs as often as possible in case something unexpected happens; like your mouthpiece coming off your regulator, or your buddy ripping yours out of your mouth.
Interesting, I was always told the 2 purposes of the snorkel are to conserve air (like you said) but also in the event you run out of air (freeflow, whatever) and on surface in waves you have a snorkel if it helps. Maybe irrelevant in a lake (huge waves at Wraysbury 😂) - do you think that diving in the sea means taking a snorkel, ir do you think this reason gets over-sold?
I'm really surprised! What happened? I remember you advertising each and every scuba rubbish exactly the same way: "Hi, welcome to simply scüüüba....".... "this is the Mares/Scubapro/Aqualung/whatever".... ...."Very high performance"... ..."nice and clean" ...."useful pockets"
Good idea with the bluetooth fins 👌👌
A snorkels only purpose is for beach divers, swimming out to a site
I always have snorkel attached and dive with both wings & jackets .. prefer jackets with pockets when I'm teaching to hide the junk instructors carry (tied on of course)
"A regulator is more useful than an octo" @ 8.20 . Also "as you go down you can switch from your snorkel to your regulator" @ 8 mimutes. PRICELESS ! didn't know Shaun was now writting the PADI OW course book lol. ( sorry Shaun blame the bearded dude :) ).
Now on a still lowly 24 dives and been using a wing for about 14 of those dives. Looking at changing hose lengths on my regs and on the spg. And just starting to use a pony bottle just to practice having a small redundant air supply in the quarry, swapping regs and using two Spg’s in a more controlled environment. Ready for either moving towards side mount or twin set. Yet I see many divers using so called std setup thinking it is the only way to dive they do not examine their equipment positioning ie have hoses dangling a few feet or more below them. Nobody seems to point out to them about streamlining their equipment or about where they position gear.
Invent a problem, sell a solution. Classic technique.
What watch is he wearing?
I always hated the massive console with the compass, dive computer and spg that most dive shops give you
Yes but just because YOU hate it, doesn't mean you are correct! Or the best option for most people.
I hate those multi functional integrated consoles too, one serious damage to the console unit and you might potentially lose all three functions.
Only need the SPG.
I have been diving since 1977, and have over a thousand dives under my belt. If using a snorkel to get from the stern of the dive boat, to the mooring line to conserve air makes me look like a green diver, then ERIN GO BRAH! 🙂 I'm part Irish anyway. 🍀
As for Octo rigs, I maintain my Octopus the same as my primary and test breath it before every dive. I give my alternate to the diver, and hold them at arms length, because I have dealt with panicked divers too many times. And I have nice long gorilla arms... 🙂
Quick question guys - I find it much more comfortable to point my cylinder valve 180 degrees opposite to the standard set-up - this means the first stage is not behind my head, it on the other side altogether. The catch is that the first stage then has to be mounted upside down to usual so that the hoses are on the right sides. Might sound complicated, and I get lots of concerned comments from dive center staff, but it works for me. Any reason why doing this might be a bad idea?
Huh... that's an interesting setup. Can't say I've seen that one before. What makes it more comfortable? Is it that you don't hit your head on the first stage? If that's the case you could always try wearing your cylinder just a little lower on the BCD.
I can't think of any *major* issues off the top of my head. I've heard of people diving with their cylinders upside-down so that the valve is at the bottom - that configuration seems whack! I would worry about the tank valve or the 1st stage getting banged up when sitting back down on the boat - but apparently you can get cages to go over the tank valve to protect it for exactly that purpose so... lol!
A couple of concerns come to mind - your hoses would effectively be shortened because your 1st stage is further from your head... though that doesn't sound like it's a concern for you! Your tank valve would be on the opposite side but that's probably not an issue for recreational diving on a single tank. Any overhead diving might be hazardous due to the risk of knocking your 1st stage loose (especially for yoke regs.) And in this case, when I say overhead, I'm even including minor swim-throughs that you might encounter even as an entry-level OW diver.
Here: www.scubaboard.com/community/threads/can-i-reverse-a-tank-and-regulator.511351/ Someone else has asked the question for you on ScubaBoard.com. Looks like there are some good answers here.
Chris Carleton Thanks for the reply Chris - I mainly dive off rubber ducks and liveaboards and never had a problem with bashing the first stage or hoses on anything. Will try the “old” way again just to be sure I like this way better 😊 Thanks again.
The main Problem I can see of such a Configuration is that the regulator are less protectet then when they are places between your Back and the Valve. Also when you dive in a cave or a wreck the changes that you get stuck increases.
Chif 142 thanks - I’ll take sure to bear that in mind on the few occasions that I do swim throughs
Having done two courses with the International Association Of Dive Rescue Specialists - recognised as the standard in rescue diving the world over and used in countries all over the world - I adhere to their many techniques and training idioms. Up-side-down tanks are typically use for police forces, typically Australia for example (although less commonly now as it is recognised as a flawed system), so that when used in conjunction with a. twin tank set up - the valves can be easily reached and manipulated by the operator. This would allow the opening and closing of tanks as required to allow having of the remain mixture to be offset or closed off. This has advantages and many disadvantages. Most of the disadvantages have been extolled to the the extent that almost no modern rescue service now use this system. The disadvantages are too numerous to list here, as are the advantages of having the cylinder upright. Just do it and be like everyone else..it won't kill you - but doing it the other way just might for a number of reasons !!!
As long as we are not drowning, anything works
Octo - Another issue is that low performing octos, or detuned octos are the norm. Ideally your alternate should be as good as your primary, if there is a chance that you are going to be breathing from it you might actually spend the coin to get a good one.
Fins - I actually like my Seawing Novas when I have to go to a place with currents, you can really power through them without thinking. But yeah they suck at frog kicks.
I've seen people do some great frog and helicopter kicks in seawings. Back kicks are where it gets tough with those.
I love my seawing novas, but I second the frog kick difficulty! I’ve got it down fine now along with helicopter and back finning, but holy crap was it hard to get it figured out, lol... My biggest difficulty is because I’m so vertically challenged (fine, short. I’m super short 😂), my fins are almost longer than my legs! It makes getting off the boat on a boat dive rather difficult as the little step and the ladders are hard to maneuver around so I can stride off...
He should be always rinsing his octo after a dive anyway.
@@toriless Rinsing doesn't fix a poor performing octo. For example if you buy a typical Scubapro setup, your octo is going to be an unbalanced R series octo. And that applies to most of the brands, octos are typically the cheapest regs that the company sells. The only exceptions are the tech oriented brands.
@@Teampegleg I was referring to all the gunk he claims is in his octo. He never mention quality but I find the Aqualung Legend Octo easy to use.
If I owned my own BCD I would definitely have a winged one.
CMAS III 30 years, Still use my first Jacket, so simple, it has 3 d-ring points I think one used. . BUT I know it. No be'lls no whistles. What makes it the perfect, is that I know it. Even at more than -30 in a wreck in the dark. I know my Jacket. I have a more modern jacket with wings. Works well, but I still take my jacket. Snorkel almost ne"ver needed, not on your mask. I still dive as cousteu knife on the right leg snorkel under the straps. People look at me like a neanderthal but FIRSTLY I am a fisherman and know the effect of a hook on a fish with 20+kb line. You need a knife or scissors. The snorkel.... you come' up from deeep in the atlantic, you have stayed too long, 5 metres of swell. You want to find your snorkel. Where is it?
28" 40" old school... spacing... 5~7 foot line good w my secondary on a 22" neck
Primary is on a 7ft hose. Octo is necklaced around my neck.
Works for me.
Ok... 'Flappy Snag Hazard' is my new diving name!!
Queensland, Australia it is a legal requirement to have a snorkel when you dive. Not sure if that law came in when we left a few tourists at the reef but it makes sense to have one.
But you don't need to have it dangling on the side of your head the whole dive. Just bring a roll-up snorkel in a pocket or pouch. I have one in my butt pouch. Rarely use it but it's there and out of the way until needed.
I prefer the primary on 2m hose down the side and up around the neck that I donate and on my necklace is the "octo".
Reg mouthpiece covers prevent any crud and you can clip it off to your bcd. One yank,and it releases from the cover. Also, the dive isn't over until your back on the boat.
Once again, we agree, on all the above.
Why do tanks have to be valve to head?. Seems it would be more effective to run hoses up then to run them down and under then up.
I personally prefer jacket BCDs the feel more comfy I think I respect your option bro keep up the good work
Recently dove with a guy who recently got his certification and was diving with the kit he had bought over winter. I was trying really hard not to be "that guy" telling him he wasted a lot of money on a shit ton of junk.
and Bluetooth fins...is there a specialty card for that...just take my money!
Are those for real??
Yes. I took the PADI Bluetooth Fin Specialist Certification course a few months ago. Best $500 I ever spent. #PutAnotherDollarIn
Snorkels are way more comfortable with a hair tie lol
Thumb up for... "maybe we went to far" :)
Sidemount anywhere. I dove the entire week at Cozumel in sidemount. Even the dive with a max depth of 27 feet. I love backplate, but with proper training sidemount isn’t a “hassle” like some people on the boat might think. I take the same if not less time to don the gear on the boat and just giant stride or roll back off the side. After the dive I walk up the latter and turn to the Side to squeeze both tanks through the ladder handles.
Agreed. I really like the ease with which sidemount allows you to handle valve problems, don and doff cylinders depending on conditions, the complete redundancy and of course how easy it is to get a proper trim.
Regulator is more useful than an octo*
*Snorkel
Please show pictures of what types of things you are speaking about. Equipment that you are saying is not a good idea, how to wear things correctly, what different styles you are referring to. Love watching these videos!! Thank you
Hey Guys :-)
You've done so many great videos but this one I would say is one of the top ones and so accurate in just so many ways.
Longer main hose just like we use for twinsets or as many people say tech is there for a reason and is just as useful even if you dive single tank.
A panicked diver with no air often go for the bubbles a.k.a your main reg ;-)
Love your channel and keep up the good work
Thank you very much Carl 😁
on point! sup
The big issue s that all items were designed independently, rater than as one system. I disagree with the snorkel info as well as the retractor. Mine is 6 years old and perfect as well as very useful for my console computer.
I'm waiting for the 2nd stage with bluetooth and HUD
Hello, I really like your comments but I'm more of a visual person then a listener and ESL. Some image of your point would be such a great add on !!! 🙂