Setting Up MESHTASTIC Off Grid Communications!
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- čas přidán 31. 05. 2024
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That phone makes me remember how much I LOVED my blackberry phone with the mouse ball.
Cool to see them re used.
I wish you could still buy them
14:31 Great video lewis .....i need to get set up i have access to some tall structures....the mesh is unobtrusive to site
....we will talk further on this.....as for emp issues i will store in the wifes handbag...its like a black hole in deep space in there
I think you are the first one to post just a simple basic how to use a VNA to sweep an antenna guide.
I want to say ham radio concepts or The Comms Channel has done a guide for a micro vnc. But more is better here.
I struggled to find a simple how to guide yesterday while making my first antenna. Ended up guesstimating 86.4mm 😅 going to take another whack tomorrow now I know this is here. Thankyou! :)
I have both a little vna like that one and a rigexpert. Rigexptert made just tuning an antenna a lot easier where the vna suffers from a lot of projects I have seen where trying to cram too much in it behind too many menus when most people just need it for one or two basic tasks most of the time. I think my big service analyzer has a vna in it. Has everything else but still figuring it all out. IFR 1600.
Hams use nano VNA a LOT, and there are many many very well presented instructional videos online 🙂
Maybe not a good idea to encourage a ping every 60 seconds. It's good for temporary testing, but in busier areas with more devices coming on line all the time, perhaps a ping time of 5 to 10 minutes with the addition of the odd second or two might be a good idea - say 301 or 603 seconds..
That should be a dynamic feature of the software and other equipment should build up a list. Don't forget Radio Amateurs have had the Packet Radio network since 1988 using TNCs over radios. LoRA software could be developed a lot as most of the errors were made with amateurs and fixed.
The SX1262 integrated circuit has a clamping mechanism to back off power to the antenna when an antenna mismatch is detected. So the danger in operating without an antenna is often overstated. See SX1262 data sheet, section 15.2 & 15.2.1 for more details.
Regardless of protections in place, it should still be encouraged to not power up such a device without an appropriate antenna.
Received Heltec and a T last week...tried programming as shown..nothing connected...gave up after many hours and much cursing.......tried again yesterday...for some reason all worked!!!! Both programmed and finding my way around both,but boy,getting some pings!!!
Great instruction vid,by the way..73.
Hey Lewis
Re the VNA, the Smith Chart is your friend. This gives you the reactive components, shows you where resonance is and what the impedance of the antenna is at that resonance (where the reactive capacitance or inductance is (close to) zero.
You can use this information to design your antenna feed to fit your 50 ohm impedance even if your antenna isn’t crossing the centre line at 50 ohms.
One other thing. I’m curious as to what options are available for bridging LoRa bands such as the 433MHz to 915MHz. How that sort of stuff is handled.
Eighty kilometers!! That's amazing, what an excellent piece of kit
No one uses KM in the UK, we are still in Miles and Miles per Hour, we also use GBP or £ as currency, not Dollars or $ as people from the UK often start quoting incorrectly.
Very interesting video these devices are well worth having around as the network is certainly building up.
I have never thought I would see a Blackberry keyboard in a device again!
Thank for the great advice and were is the winter picture from looks good and a great view
Thanks, it’s moorside edge
Meshtastic/LoRa could very well have a bandwidth problem if it really takes off.
I wondered that too. Hopefully more nodes will also allow for more capacity even if they act as buffers.
Read my mind
Great Content easy to understand. Thank You
This is a really good video, i didnt understand what meshtastic was for besides some fun but this video puts it into perspective. I plan on getting a few myself for me and my partner.
Ive been thinking about shtf situations a lot lately, at the moment im trying to plan out a rpi computer thats portable and can charge off solar with some tools to attach to it.
Save yourself the trouble, print your own notebooks with small font and several magnifying glasses. There are far too many failure points in any of the computers I have seen for this purpose. If you are going that route, a pelican case with two cheap laptops, some thumb drives and two battery banks would be much safer.
Remember to have Dynamic moving nodes (Fit to cars, Vans, Trucks & motor bikes )
If Everyone did this we would have Data Nets from Cornwall Lands End to Scotland Highlands
Also Meshtastic All Wi-Fi for higher bandwidth nodes
nice. i would not do a 60 sec ping cycle, yes it makes you more visible but kills battery and ties up the comm channel (a DoS if lots of people end up following that setting).
When SHTF means flood, fire etc then having another coms channel could be socially useful. HOWEVER if it means state at war with other states or non-state actors, then possession/operation of a wireless transmitter could be illegal and coded transmissions could be a capital offence.
Assume that all communication by LoRa can and will be intercepted and evaluated.
And easily jammed.
Nope. If you get the right meshtastic bits they're 256 bit encrypted. They won't be found/jammed because they run on the same frequency as smart phones.
@@ireuel357 In world war 2 an unexpected transmitter could be located easily and was first assumed to be an enemy agent. Also codes were broken in WW2 so I doubt that codes would be unbreakable in WW3. This would simply be passing a coded message = spying for an enemy, and gets you imprisoned.
I think it's safe to say communications would be the least of our problems after a nuclear war.
Very informative video, thanks. On a slightly different vain, I just purchased a Diamond 701 2m and 70cm antenna from a reputable online reseller, and while 2m has a good SWR, there’s no reading on 70cm at all on my Nano vna-F. I will try your settings.
Test the antenna on a radio with SWR meter! If it works on 2m it will work on 70cm as they are directly related.
If it doesn't work on 70cm then it can not be a reputable retailer.
Very Interesting
WW3 NO PROBLEM is a funny teaser as in the event of an unrestricted attack everyone in GB would die within hours and commo would not have much meaning 🙂 Short of a war, though, Meshatastic is a fun project and I'm doing what I can to improve the grid here in the USA !
Hi Lewis, reference the EEMB bty you mention, does that come with a JST connector that fits the board or do you have to frankenstein it to the end of the one that comes with the Heltec? Thanks, Paul 👍
Top video as always!!
Epic video mate! You are a mesh addict now!
Yes I am! Thanks rog n
And thanks to both of you, I've got a pair of Heltecs on order so soon there will be a pair of nodes in the Buckingham area.
Great video :)
4:08 That Lilygo keyboard is from a Blackberry. I used one like it for 6 years. I loved it. Too bad they stopped making updates for it.
I am definitely not a prepper, the NanoVNA is a great device for every radio experimenter. Still waiting for my 868MHz Heltecs no 433MHz Lora near me...
can u tell me what a prepper is please ?
@@onedayagogo Someone who prepares for a disaster. Usually it involves hoarding lots of tinned food, and in the case of the paranoid Americans, lots of guns and ammunition to stop everyone else stealing the food.
Great video 👍
Have you tried the NFR52 units (Wisblock 4631 and T-Echo)? The 52 are far better with power consumption.
Thanks 👍
Could you give a link to the best antenna you measured please, the wi-fi style one?
The problem with Meshatstic is they need more powerful nodes! the latency and dropout you get are from nodes not being able to process the messages quick enough to transmit them out again.
If there was more powerful nodes you could up the hops even turn the hops to max.
A Raspberry Pi or one of its derivatives would do, then just add a PI Module for LoRa and install Meshtastic software.
Really love your simple breakdown of information. I'm so happy when people do this. Like the wise man said, if you can't explain it simply then you do not understand it.
Now we need a DSN for Meshtastic🤗
Thanks for this information and video, and I agree that having reliable communications will be essential to survival in ManMade or natural disasters.
However, if the disaster is manmade I.e. nuclear war, always remember, that you must survive the attack, as a nuclear flash shadow on a wall won’t be able to use communications devices..😮!
Have a great day!
Is Meshtasitc the newer signal I'm getting on 433.88mhz or there about?
I believe a lot of people don't really understand how close the world is to SHTF.
I've been a (US) licensed 'Ham' since 1989, have a GMRS license and *lots* of equipment, but I'm very glad to see LoRa/Meshtastic becoming so popular. Just the psychological benefit of having some form of communication should the worst happen, would be huge. Just as he mentioned in this video, I'm buying various equipment to setup nodes so I can help at least some people if things get really bad.
hi mytube4utoo, have you become a flat earther yet? If not I suggest viewing the 13 part series _what on earth happened_ in my about to learn how the earth is not a globe
I heard that in the event of Armageddon you could kiss your A55 goodbye. Just how will anyone get from Chester to Holyhead?
Textbook. Well done
This is extremely interesting and useful technology if you can get a community together. I see it more for commercial than social uses.
Bought a couple of Heltec Mestastics from AliExpress just today.
Due to arrive March 10th, hopefully before WW3 breaks out!
So did I - but mine was a week ago, they are in UK Customs right now!
I had a Heltec V2 but then ordered a couple of V3s which arrived a few days ago.
Be prepared
I'm going to use my Cat Ruggedised phone. A rugged case for the T Deck would be great. Main thing would be protecting the screen.
73 M7TUD
Does the T-Deck work with a Wisblock?
Can you tell me where to get the stl data for the enclosure to print?
I have actually wondered in some sort of electronic shielding migh help Meshtastic with noise issues?
Just protecting the electronics not the antenna.
RF circuits should be in a metal and grounded enclosure. I intend to line one of the Bender cases with a stick on foil and grounding it. I will also use an adapter to add some filtering to the end of my USB power lead before it is plugged in.
All celphones must come with this conection as well
I see that Lilygo lists 3 different band 433/868/915 For the US are 868 and 915 decks the same just with channel/config changes? My T-beam has 868/915 listed on the chip label
@@oscarleijontoft Not at all what I asked and not at all a helpful answer. Hoping Lewis will chime in with what he knows.
433 is inside the HAM band in North America, making encryption on it illegal (🙄), 915 I thought was also safe for North America.. but I should maybe do research myself on the subject. 😅
@@SpookyLurker 915 is safe for encryption and no license is required in the US.
@@richerich853I was only concerned about whether 915 was North American or for another area of the world. Cheers from the Great White North!
I think they probably are the same unit, yes. I know that my Heltec can be configured to be 868 or 915 depending on where you are. I have mine configured for 868 for her ein the UK. There seems to be another version which does 915 to 925 or something like that but I don't know anything about that other than AliExpress listings!
So Ringway, as a backup system meshtastic sounds like a viable option. But if you are in a situation of war where the deployment of Nuclear weapons are a viable threat, you may want to set up a container with a Faraday cage type of external or internal system that can hold a few batteries , a phone and a node or two within it to prevent a possible EMP attack from deleting those pieces of gear. And if you keep say 3 battery power banks in the container you should have 3 more that are not in it, that way you can keep them charged up and swap them for the ones in the container. to keep what is in the container charged up and ready for use if the need arises.
Lewis, how well do you think a discone would work? I have one on my roof already with a vertical element, and it would be much easier to just plug into that in a SHTF situation
No you’d lose all or most the signal you need a dedicated 868’mhz antenna
@@RingwayManchester I figured as much. I guess I'm mounting one up at the bottom of the the discone's mast, then. But a 915 antenna, in my case
The loss on the coax is too great, most of the signal will be lost unless you have LMR400 or Heliax. You could get a plastic box and put the PCB in , then use a very short piece of coax and a long USB lead to power it. You would be better off getting a 2inch wide piece of plastic pipe, sticking the board and a 868MHz aerial inside at the top under an end cap, then running a thick USB cable down to power it, or use a thick power lead joined on to a USB plug.
Forget the discone, it's not a very good design of antenna. You are better using a dedicated 868MHz antenna.
If you are high enough, look at the plans for a Slim Jim and scaled them for 868MHz, make it from a piece of copper wire and connect it to a pigtail and use this inside the pipe with the circuit board. This gives a much better local coverage than those fake "high gain" colinears on sale. I used a SJ on 1090MHz and it was only about 18cm long and 1cm wide.
Get experimenting.
With LoRa there is no advantage with high gain aerials as they have a much higher angle of radiation, so useless for local blanket coverage compared to the Slim Jim.
What’s the theoretical capacity of these networks. I.e in a real situation how many people using them at the same time would cause the network to be jammed up ?
on the glass-mount antennas check the resonance when it is on glass (not just floating in air). You may find a difference
I thought the same, as you’d expect, I put one on glass with the same results. But yeah you’re right
It makes NO difference unless the glass has some metallic coating or you put it near a metal frame. On glass it makes no difference to RF.
@@Bond2025 the dielectric constant of pcb board material does impact the rf performance of the tracks on it... if you stick a wire (or aerial) onto glass that is effectively a 4mm thick circuit board, dielectric constant possibly around 4.8. OK the effect is quite small but it can have some effect.... It is just like dipoles made with insulated wire & ininsulated wire have slightly different resonant freqs.
can u do a video on what Masjid Radio is please, as there seems to be loads of them on E bay lately. they are a decent price but i don't know if they are any good
I’ve done one
czcams.com/video/D0BVtQ6y5Rc/video.htmlsi=XI2sMGSY9quu-iQT
Well bugger, I had a LOT of those little pigtails at one time but I took them to the scrapyard...
I almost bought a T-deck today. I wish they had a version with an e-ink screen.
Does the NanoVNA allow you to check/measure the power output of a Meshtastic device?
No
They can be around 100mWatts. Enough to get in to a bigger RF amp.
Are these not quite similar to those Cybiko pda things that were available in 2000?
I dug my cybiko sets out, unfortunately leaky batts have destroyed them
Almost the same, they were a PDA with a walkie talkie function and could send data and work in a mesh system. Not sure of the frequencies they used now. I was wondering if a patent had died off.
I remember some models of mobile phones also had a PTT feature to talk to others locally.
I’m following this but as vintage 80s CB user ( no longer) can you or please show how to set up a idiot’s guide how install a relay node if I don’t use but contribute to the network
Although i love radio stuff, let's get real guys. Meshtastic will immediately fail at the moment a real war situation will occur or if power goes down. Even if you get a few nodes that keep running on backup power for the first few hours, it won't last and i don't think it will be a big priority keeping nodes up at such times. (no time for hobby) And even if i would be wrong the range of those things requires a crazy amount of nodes to have real nation wide coverage. So no this is not a real solution. It's more likely shortware or a regional 2m repeater will stay in service and will be used for comms and ofcourse sat phones.
The people with a radio in the car or backup power at home will be the only ones able to have much of a conversation. I wonder how low the noise floor will be in an country wide power cut for example. CB might sound like it did 40 years ago and not be so bloody noisy,
Don't see the point, it was like when my local substation broke and the whole area was without power. Massive groups of people took to the streets with torches walking up and down. Very very odd behaviour. Everyone will just be asking what happened and block the network completely.
The major advantage with these devices is extremely low power consumption with batteries that lasts days if not weeks. Add a solar charger to a node and you have until the components break down. It also runs encrypted on low output on a civilian frequency band with loads of other non com devices so not a high priority for EW units to jam.
Will it cover a nation? Not realistically no, not unless you route it thru the internet but it will cover a neighborhood/city and one HAM radio nerd is bound to have long rage com's to relay if needs be but that runs a higher risk of interception or jamming.
@@Neruomir You need a solar panel, a charge controller and a big battery and a place to put the antenna as high as possible so an ideal location. And then still the range is probably half to 1 KM at most 2 realistic range in a suburbian area. And hooking it up to the internet is of no use because the internet will be gone if we really need this solution so it gotta work in mesh mode. But how likely is it that people will have all that to keep it running. ? You would need agreements and alot of planning to get garantueed coverage, not a bunch of hobbyists, that is just not going to work.
7:02 - I was wondering what happened to all those BlackBerries …😮
How much better are these devices than short range walkie talkie's distance wise ?
It's not the same thing, you need to consider they are only around 100mWatts RF output. On 868MHz that doesn't go far in a built up area, it needs to be high up or using a really good aerial, or both. Walkie talkies can be 5Watts RF and work down nearer 440MHz. RF at different frequencies works very different in different locations.
My favourite band in 4M or 70MHz for base to mobile coverage, nothing beats it! DABradio should have used that band.
That screen being off-centre on those T-decks is so annoying that I begin to suspect if I have OCD. Can something be done about centering it?
Love my NanoVNA it is so useful... last few LoRa 868 antennas I've tested are really 433MHz antennas that *kind of* work at 868 🙄🙄
Yep, there a lot of junk parts being sold now the hype is in full swing 😑
I wish there are more energy efficient version of it. Maybe esp32c6 instead of esp32s3. I might think of making one as my hobby project.
NFR52
@@paulsengupta971 I know but it might not be as powerful as c6 and nrf does not have WiFi. Additionally esp32 has native support of LVGL, which makes the screen integration much easier. And... if the code is in esp-idf, it is really transferable between s3 and c6.
It's probably only useful for a looting squad on a mission in post apocalyptic wastlands, and even that only against the faction without IT/radio guy who can block it during raid anyway.
I’ve had notification my node is on it’s way..
Then the supplier plans to have a breakdown due to overwork…
I am but in my area not so much!
You mention that a phone is required a few times here for boards like the Heltec v3 that you've demonstrated previously, but I dont think thats entirely true. You can use the web interface from any computer on thrle same WiFi network and never have to touch a phone, and still get full functionality, right?
I just want to clear that up before I go out and buy one is all :-) Mine's going up a mast, and while it'll have good wifi, it'd never get bluetooth by the time its up therr haha (and being constrained to using it just on a phonr would really suck, I do 99% of my chatting, etc, on a PC).
Thankies!
at 4:33 Ageist much? Some of us boomers are still tech savvy!
But your 90 year old grandmother probably isn’t 😂
Thanks for going through this series without all the 'prepper' stuff that usually comes with it. I have a few Meshtastic nodes that I use to tinker with because radio is fun - not because the end is neigh. Seemingly every video out there was hosted by some insufferable police academy dropout or conspiracy theorist. The quick NanoVNA overview was good, too. There's so much garbage out there in antenna land and it's a great tool to sort them out.
Thanks so much!
What is the capacity of Meshtastic in terms of parallel communications? You showed a picture of Burning Man which has thousands of people. Could Meshtastic actually handle that many people using simultaneously?
the chinese companies sending out half this kit ought to be looked into 👍
Always good content Lewis, but I'm thinking you & Andy are on some sort of commission from Meshtastic with all the videos you've posted between you ? Great kit tho' 👌🏻
I tell you what then, send me your info and every penny I get from Meshtastic you can have. Prepare to be disappointed (there’s not a penny)
Thank you so much brother!!!
I wish that lilygo had eink display
I see! Bigger is better 😂
How much do they cost ?
About £45
When the power goes out, cell phone can be over whelmed. Having a way to message others, check remote weather temperature and get information is great.
In the US a NOAA radio, CB and now this looks great.
You can view theese roc bunkers online
Speaking from the USA .. most sincere apologies for the not-funny clown who opined recently about encouraging Russia to take what it wants :(
fren, if u listen closely enough, his comments were actually referring to "who he was talking to", not "who he was talking about". but as usual the unscrupulous mass mind control media used it to try and score points. they are evil little gobblins working behind the scenes. they don't care about any of us. at all...
What about encryption?
You can turn it on and off
Great, exactly what I need.@@RingwayManchester
how does the app work off grid?
Well once you have it, you don’t need any network or signal. It works
It communicates with the LoRa unit over Bluetooth.
The T-Deck looks like it was ripped from a mid-2000s Blackberry.
If we’re talking about nuclear war, please publish how to make transceivers from vacuum tubes, might be relevant…
They will never stand up to military specs. Great idea.
Looks like a blackberry bold lol
That it does!
I'd love to get a aT-Deck but for the EU they're out of stock until April :(
Loads on AliExpress that come in a week or 2
@@RingwayManchester 'Local' German warehouse had a message on their website about Lilygo making changes to the T-Deck, hence the respupply being delayed. Not sure AliExpress is the way to go at this moment (not to mention that the T-Deck on AliExpress is about 20 euros more expensive with prolly non-existing warranty). I'm gonna start with 2 Heltec V3's and wait for local to stock to get replenished :D
Make sure your device is protected against EMP.
Anddddd the Lilygo units are now sold out for months.
👍
Will LORA one day have the ability to access the internet?
If only the parts were readily available. This has gotten so popular so fast that nothing is in stock. Frustrating.
I've not seen any out of stock on AliExpress.
Can i configure the device without a fricking additional cell phone or tablet yet? the T-DECK is a meshtastic afterthought so far, i actually have one... will not be using it until it's self-configurable, IT'S A WHOLE BLACKBERRY... dubya tee eff ppl
That would be good to have in the US lead european war
I'm already made preparations, a small radio on battery's, food that you can hold for a long time, and of course my RF gear. To listen to emergency calls, also an SW receiver on battery's. Because a statement from other radio amateurs was published recently, that they will be sending extra messages in case of emergency or war. I also bought an analog scanner for 50€ from a friend. It's very convenient. Also, I made a big amount of ammunition for my weapons. Safely stored in a vault in my cellar, where also my vaults with weapons are. So everything is installed there, radio's inc. Problem is, that they bomb my antenna's I have to use handheld antenna's.
So for your viewers to understand..
No Lora/meshtastic during war! Point.
Any war will also contain ECM warfare, including jamming of civilian/militarily frequencies, especially such broadly known as 868.
Faraday cage x 3
@@johnbaldwin143 yeah right, this helps greatly against any form of radiowaves XD
Why even bother with jammers if people accomplish it themselves 😹👍
Emp???
What about it?
ElectroMagnetic Pulse. Created by a nuclear explosion. Destroys semiconductors, electronic chips etc over a fairly big range unless they are protected inside a Faraday cage.
I think a new iphone would be better as they have sat comms built in
Satellites will be the first targets when shtf.
One problem I see with the mesh is relying on others to have their devices powered up for long periods of time. I'd expect in disaster situations, power conservation would be a top priority and there to be dead spots.
How about EMP hardening? Not much use if killed by EMP.
Just use an emp proof box
Will work apart from not being able to use any antenna, so defeats the object slightly. You may not know when (if) EMP will occur hence will be prone to destruction like any other electronic device.
@@prebenlohse1684 Keep a spare PCB wrapped in foil or some form of Faraday cage.
@@manicminer4573 I’m not a prepped at all and find the notion somewhat strange. I’ll keep my electronics connected as I do not see the scenario where I need to go to that length as very likely.
@@prebenlohse1684 is it even possible to protect antennas against EMP ? won't everything just get fried anyway ?
Beware of SMA connectors they are not all created equal.
Those Amazon antennas looked like they had RP SMA connectors - usually used on WiFi router whereas the VNA has SMA A connectors. In the video it looks like you were trying to make a lesbian connection - two female inner connectors - there was no centre piin so the VNA was seeing an open connection.
At no point did I do that…
@@RingwayManchester The video looked very much like the inner connections were both female I could not see a pin in the antenna connector RP SMA and SMA A shells will mate but there is no centre connection - I did not think it was deliberate if that is what occurred - sorry if I'm wrong there was no intention to offend. (video at 14.31)
I know how sma connectors work I’ve been a radio amateur for 20 years 😂 there’s definitely a hole and a pin.
@@RingwayManchester Humble apologies then - I was going by the video which I guess was not clear on my phone - I have been around professional radio for 30 years and have made this mistake a couple of times - along with plugging 50 and 75 ohm connectors together which stuffs up N's and BNC's (although people often don't notice)
No worries . It’s a minefield!
1st comment ❤