Single Mass Flywheel vs Dual Mass Flywheel
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- čas přidán 31. 05. 2014
- The Dual Mass Flywheel incorporates a dampening mechanism made up of torsion springs and friction washers that are ideally suited to absorb torsional vibrations within the drivetrain. When it comes to replacing the DMF EXEDY has developed a more economic option; a range of Single Mass Flywheels (SMF) which are sold together with the cover, disc and release bearing or CSC to replace the DMF system. The SMF is extremely robust and is the preferred choice for racing or commercial applications, however, the SMF systems do not possess the same dampening characteristics as a DMF.
Find out more here: www.exedy.com.au/ts1586146944/... - Sport
Never a bad idea to replace that harmonic balancer with high mileage on it if upgrading to a single light flywheel
This is the first time I’ve heard Exedy pronounced the way you did.
I replaced mine with a solid flywheel in a 2011 BMW 3 series about a year ago, I only notice a difference in cruise control going up and down hills. The car seams to jerk a little. I can tell you at 140,000 miles my clutch disk had little wear, but the flywheel looked like it was about to fall apart.
Think about it? It's obvious really the DMF is there to protect the engine from itself. With huge amount of torque being made in modern diesels from about 1200 rpm, it's to stop the end of the crank shaft breaking off. If it wasn't there manufacturers would have to beef up cranks no end. Remove your DMF and see how long your crank lasts.
SMF are killing all the old TDI's. So many of these cars are coming in with damaged transmissions. When they get the estimate the vehicle is sent to the scrap yard
Your so right single mass sucks so much noise
By NO MEANS are all DMF's on Diesels, mine is a gas burnr and it has one and I HATE the way it chatters
can we replace single mass flywheel to dual-mass flywheel (for Nissan Navara 2008)?
Great video
Great info and accent. Thanks mate!
I have a 02 Maxima with 238,000 miles and it seems as if the DMF springs have weakened to the point where taking off from a dead stop feels horrible. has that worn engine mount feeling. I installed energy suspension polyurethane mount bushings so now I'm suspecting that its the DMF. what do you think?
I had the same problem, with Audi A4 2.0 petrol, while the engine was idling there was no vibrations or any noise from the engine or gearbox, but moving from a stand still was a huge problem, lots of sounds, lots of vibrations. After I removed the gearbox I found that there is more then 5cm play between the masses (you need to replace the flywheel, when there's more than 3cm play), so the flywheel was absolutely dead. After replacing the whole DMF kit all the problems were gone. It might even killed my gearbox, but I'm not entirely sure, I got the car, with lots of gearbox problems, so I changed it at the same time as well.
I thought this would explain the difference between dmf and smf but it doesn’t it just simply refers you to a website
Bollocks isnt it
Had to replaced a worn DMF with a SMF on my focus, shifting feels terribly difficult now the engine is at least more responsive...
Soon I have to replace the clutch in my mk4 TDI but I am In dilemma Tu put smf or dmf? The last one is very expensive Your advice thanks
dmf is comfier
My Dual Mass is starting to squeel a little at low revs, should I go for Single Mass conversion?
02 Liberty, 170Ks
Dual Mass are very very expensive and so is the single mass conversions. If you are lucky like me you will only replace your clutch once in a vehicle's life time or for the duration that you own it. If its an investment why not fit a Dual Mass but if you are going to knock it off any way why not fit a single mass flywheel.
yes go for it
+MARK OF THE NINJA Thanks - I'm worried if I go SMF I'll be angry at myself for NOT listening to the bulk of people who say they are noisier and more vibrations than SMF conversions...
Don't replace a dmf with a dodgy clutch kit, the clutch will not be tuned to the vehicle! You will get noise vibration and harshness!
Besides the fact that a clutch already acts as a damper when changing gears…Usually the established clutch companies do tune their kits for the specific vehicles. Also most of the time cars with DMF’s had at one point or another an SMF with that transmission available, and get the DMF in a remodel or facelift update. That’s a very misleading generalized statement you made.
I have a 2006 tdi .needs clutch replacement so much opinions o what is best .any ideas on going to a single mass conversion
G'day @up up and away, thank you for your enquiry. So that we can discuss your enquiry in more detail, would you mind contacting our customer service staff on 1300 366 592. Further, we suggest you have a read of our Tech Note 047 which discusses the pros and cons of single mass and dual mass flywheels. This note can be found at exedy.com.au/ts1636412636/attachments/Page/155/TN047%20Issue%203.pdf
As if they hadn't ruined diesels enough in the 2010s, complicating perfectly simple systems throwing into the mix, electronic throttle butterfly's, MAF sensors, EGR valves, and exhaust particulate filters.....now I learn some kind of ticking timebomb of mechanical failure, 2 pieced flywheel full of rubber and springs lurks below my bell housing awaiting future attention? Fuck my life.
ok... how exacly has the butterfly valve ruined diesel? Helping the car with shutting down and causing less vibrations is bad??? sure....
how exactly is maf bad? Helps to calculate the air intake and fine tune air mixture... more efficient is bad apparently
how has egr ruined it? besides the carbon build up, theres 0 disadvantage to it and it reduces emmisions and might prolong engine life since it makes the internal combustuion process to be lower in temp, might use a bit more fuel.
dual mass flywheel is for comfort and helps smooth things out with gearbox, how is that fkin bad?
DPF is shit.
Lack of knowledge pretty sums up your comment. Just complaining.
@@hmmm9183 butterfly valve....redundancy. it's not needed in a diesel, its purely adding complexity, Increasing pumping losses, and I've never seen a diesel continue to run without fuel. Shutting that off works perfectly fine. Leave the air alone
MAF, same thing more unnecessary added complexity. It's only there to tell the computer how much fuel to inject, and I can do that with a cable and my right foot. When the sensor fails, the vehicle stops working. This is frustrating, counter productive, expensive and can all be avoided.
EGR ... you said "besides the carbon build up, there's zero disadvantage to it" while being completely contradictive, that's also Incorrect. The addition of the heat exchanger, and recirc pipe, now allows the diesel engine to drink its own coolant in the event of an internal failure. And it absolutely happens. Go talk to a mechanic.
My Dual mass flywheel complaint still stands, gearbox bearings last far longer than dual mass flywheel systems, in vehicles with engines that have well designed balancer shafts. Which is probably why there are so many 'single mass conversion kits' on the market today. It also, feels terrible to drive with, especially when combined with the "dead pedal" that arises by fitting all the other crap listed above to make a computer do something (again) that a human can do with a cable attached to a mechanical pump, a functioning brain, and a right foot.
DPF, EGR, DEF....are all added complexity, designed purely to get manufacturers through increasingly stringent emissions tests/laws. That's all it is. Anything else you've heard, saving the planet or otherwise is called 'spin' and 'marketing'.
@@AJ-oj5eu butterfyl valve can be simply taken out, few screws... it helps to shut off and is not that more exprnsive. And what pumping losses are you speaking of? The valve stays open all the time when driving. Sure very minimal restriction, but if you argue maf is shit then your whole point suddenly make absolute 0 sense.
Maf is an extra calculation. If you do it on your own you will simply spray load of fuel and get nowhere. Without maf car doesnt just stop working. It continues to work woth what is left. O2 sensor, charge air temp, map, but wait... lets remove them because you can do it on your own... yeah right, I mean you can, but the efficiency will be atleast 100 times worse.
Egr can also be used to control engine temp.
Theres just so much flaw in your logic... majorty of these things make things better. Theyre reliable, but just because they fail once in 200k mile or km you say remove it, not needed. You hear how stupid that sounds?
Let go and remove everything. Fuel gauge? I can just drive and fill it up. Counting milage? I can just add up in google map. Tachometer? I can just listen to the sound. Speed? I can just go by eye. Knock sensors? I can just listen. And what more shit you can think of.
Complex suspension? Aight. Just remove everything and build it like a carriage
Id understand if all that was often. But when it happens to 0.001% of people in 200k mileage, its just plain stupid
@@hmmm9183 right one thing at a time here Einstein. You're gonna have to go away and try to understand "added complexity". Let's go back to the butterfly first and I'll try and explain "pumping losses" to you. In a "newer" diesel engine , When the computer decides it wants to recirculate EGR gasses, it has to partially close the intake butterfly as you drive along the road to create a vacuum in the manifold, and force it to suck a portion of the soot and inert gasses from the exhaust manifold into the engines intake. Creating this vacuum takes effort from the piston as it travels down the cylinder on the intake stroke. It's known as a parasitic loss, and requires some energy from the engine to overcome. In a "traditional" or older diesel engine, without EGR, there is no throttle butterfly in the inlet manifold, thus far less parasitic losses during the intake stroke, while driving along at cruising speeds. This is just one example.
I'll agree, the power of a modern computer controlled diesel engine, "per cc" is far, far greater than a traditional "oil burner", however I'll argue they're no more fuel efficient. I get 10km/litre from an old diesel 4x4 and I get the same 10kms/litre from my modern one. Newer isn't always better, especially when you add in (that due to the added complexity of all the extra sensors and systems) the engine refuses to function WHEN one of those stupid MAF/MAP sensors, O2 sensors, craps out, or emission control related systems malfunctions , or the dual mass flywheel flys apart prematurely, and leaves you stranded at worst or in "limp home mode" at best. Because they do.
I'm not interested in removing suspension and fuel gauges or any of that nonsense you brought up. I'm simply stating I'd rather drive a slightly shaky, partly noisy, manual gearboxed mechanical fuel pumped, non restricted, slightly slower, simple diesel vehicle, that's FAR more reliable, and much less costly to diagnose and repair if it does break down.
@@AJ-oj5eu alright, you got me there. Completely forgot that the butterfly valve is also used for egr control. This ones on me.
EDIT: But it doesnt really introduce any pumping loss, as the the open egr valve just gives the air instead of the outside. The same when petrol engine get better mileage with egr than without it.
But I still stand by my point that air monitor sensors should stay. As youve said, I have also noticed that newer vehicles get not so better mileage or worse. But that partly due to all the restriction systems dpf, multiple cats.
Ive seen multiple cars with dual mass flywheels well above 400k km (thats something like 250k miles maybe) and theyre holding up just fine.
Sure its annoying when the car goes into limp mode. But then again misreporting how much air youre getting can lead to very lean mixture which is not so good.
Yeah, I lashed out by saying some stupid shit, but kind of just wanted to say that little things add up bit by bit.
I'm worried if I go SMF I'll be angry at myself for NOT listening to the bulk of people who say they are noisier and more vibrations than stock DMF...(Car is 2003 Nissan 350Z) - CURRENTLY without a clutch ;)
oh well; too late.
I have a 2006 Hyundai tiburon V6, went solid a month ago.
Pros: Gear changes are much more direct, love the feeling of it.
HOWEVER
Cons:
- Idle is just a little bit more rough, though it's the least I'm worried about.
- Gear shifting is now moderately noisy: Every engaged shift is not audible, as you had worn syncros, and a hitting clutch
- There is a CONSTANT gear noise/buzzing/whirring sound when accelerating from 1500-2500 RPMs.
Combining these together, it was not worth it for me, so I'm having a DMF and a new clutch fitted in 2 weeks. Believe me, if you are the kind of person, who notices every little sound that's not supposed to be there/wasn't there before, you'd be super annoyed as well.
Pay for it now or pay for it later. It's all a matter of perspective. In my experience, trying to save a buck here and there doesn't work. You will spend the money one way or another eventually either in repairs or a new vehicle when the cheap repairs fail.
Same thing here too. I did not know that SMF makes this noise. THis is the worst mod you can do to your car, the noise is unbearable. Going to install DMF this week.
what'd you decide? i got my SMF in today and haven't driven it yet.
i have a 2008 lexus is250 with a dual mass flywheel but i dont like it, is it possible that i can replace it with a single when i replace my clutch
Yes
I have a skoda roomster 1.9 tdi 105bhp. Mechanic told me £450 to supply and fit clutch and flywheel. I phoned a auto spares who took my reg and told me my car don't take flyweel it has a solid one, just need clutch kit. confused now
Your comment is missing alot of words.
I have a 2006 MK five GTI with a manual swap when I got the car, the work had already been done and I liked it now the slave cylinder went out which was in my gearbox. It’s internal so I had to bring it into the shop when they replace everything it wasn’t shifting right so we went ahead and replace the clutch bc it was pretty beat . and I get a call saying there’s a single fly wheel in there now and the clutch they ordered takes a dual plate flywheel . So that’s what they want too throw in there … will this affect my performance or my sweet tuner sound 🤣. Really though . I would like too know if this is a good call or not . For the car cannot handle a stock clutch
Thank you for reaching out! We appreciate your interest. For further information, please email us at sales@exedy.com.au, and we'll be happy to assist you.
what is the website that the presentation had just said "technote47"??
@@Agret sure gonna help him 3 years later
@@DerKaktusAvant haha my comment that you replied to is from 2yrs ago too :) I probably wrote in that answer in case anyone else was looking for it since I had to go looking for it too. As you have proven a few years later people are still looking at this video. Just edited the old comment so the link is working again as it was 404 error when you commented.
@@Agret your like my girlfriend mate. I could not reply to her for 2 year and still get a reply within 2 seconds
In a slow revving diesel, you get worse MPG with a solid flywheel because you end up running a lower gear to get rid of the gear noise.
They put dual mass ones in many diesels for that reason some petrol cars do have them 2003 jetta 1.8 turbo i have has a DMF
If your car costs less than 5000 pounds and done over 100k mileage. And the clutch goes.. go for solid mass flywheel.
this is an aussie youtube; $10,000 and 160 kkm
i have had a dual master clutch and flywheel conversation kit is September last year £500 . 2014 fitted . and now October 2015 it' need doing agane the garage who did the job said there was only 1 year warranty . I am not inpressed . eny ideas even 1 ?
in other word what i understood there is no alteration to the performance...it's just vibration
i found ( reading / looking at parts ) one negative to engine life ( single mass flywheel ) on bottom end bearings and it might make it easier to spark knock / easier to shock load parts and brake them
Yea,you can resurface a single not a dual
Is the clutch kit different for single mass flywheel and dual mass flywheel for a same vehicle? I need to order a clutch kit and I am worried if it doesn't fit the vehicle.
Thank you for reaching out! We appreciate your interest. For further information, please email us at sales@exedy.com.au and we'll be happy to assist you.
Thank you for reaching out! We appreciate your interest. For further information, please email us at sales@exedy.com.au and we'll be happy to assist you.
Hello, is it good to put on my bmw e46 318D.116KS single mass flywheel?
G'day @VlahMMA. Great questions. There are pros and cons of both the Dual Mass Flywheel and Single Mass Flywheel system so as a start, take a read on our Tech Note 047 which can be found on our website for more insight prior to making a decision ==> exedy.com.au/ts1636412636/attachments/Page/155/TN047%20Issue%203.pdf
@@ExedyAustralia Thank you
No worries at all - Happy to help. Cheers.
Hi to all !
It's been a year since i've changed the DMF into a SMF in my VW 1.6 TDI GOLF VI (10/2010 model CAY Engine).
Since then i face i shimy symptom in idle state and only when the engine reaches the 90 deg. Celcius operating temp. NO SYMPTOMS till that tenp.
Many technicians say that the injectors are responsible for that which Ihad overhaul serviced at 250.000 km.
For the time being i've covered 302.000 km. Let me say that a single injector costs 420 euros!
Any idea for where to start the troubleshooting from is highly appreciated.
Thank you for reaching out! We appreciate your interest. For further information, please email us at sales@exedy.com.au, and we'll be happy to assist you.
if your car is designed with dmf its not a good idea to swap it ... may cause serious damage, maybe not, but does it worth the risk? Change it for a high price and you wont have to worry about for the next 150-200k miles if you are careful...
sooo...... dmf are used because they couldnt or wouldnt design the engine to run smooth enough?
Vibration to do with the gearbox more likely since it has most of the stress on it but anyhoo lol.
The emphasis on smoothness is partially because that's the only side effect that the typical driver notices. Probably the the main purpose of the DMF is to prevent the motor from literally bending or otherwise destroying parts of the drivetrain, be them crankshafts, transmission shafts, clutches, etc. Without a DMF the manufacturer would have to beef up at least one of those parts, if not all of them, creating a heavier rotating mass that's more expensive to produce.
+John Griffin Well said.
Yet theres never problems with the old cars with simgle mass and springs in the clutches? I reckon its money racket
wow.. your T shirt are cool... can give me 1~~~` hahahaah.. Thanks for the info tho~~
I had my dual mass resurfaced and have put 105000 miles on it never had a problem.
What car? Model and Year?
Rob H 1996 bmw 328i
thats surprising dmf usually fail way before that, depending on the car though
@@shaneebahera8566 depends on how hard you push it as well, he probably took very good care of it
Stupid loud noise like music why do you do it?
How much flywheel toyota
Thank you for reaching out! We appreciate your interest. For further information, please email us at sales@exedy.com.au and we'll be happy to assist you.
Single mass flywheel is more accurately referred to as a solid flywheel.
types of dual mass flyqhwheel beed help with homework
On a Diesel engine, yes. On a petrol, no.
Silver_Arrow No what, which are you talking about....!? 🤨
@@jacksbackable DMFs are used to dampen the vibrations from the engine to transmission. Diesels create alot more vibration than near enough all petrol engines so they are suitable for all diesels and a very small amount of petrols
To tell you the truth- No need to change anything at all. The cause of vivration is the connection of transmission to plywheel. Only computer can check the perfect allignment. The answer to solve is just a simple Universal Coupling. Think about it
Depending on the engine converting to a smf can destroy the transmission...so be warned. Diesel's are the worst so do yourself a favour and got with a dmf.
i fit smf all the time with no comebacks at all, unless the transmission is already goosed.
dmf makes too much duck noise
dual mass flywheels are a total failure.
Yes. No wonder even 350z and 370z used them.my e36 has one too.
Eddie Kennedy your crazy
AKS if it is so good why are there single mass replacement for dual mass?
DMF is total dogshit gone through 3 expensive replacements so getting a single mass this time.
Dual mass is for smoothness and quietness. Single mass is for everything else, including durability and longevity. That's why dual mass is more expensive upfront and over time, but if you can afford it, it's more luxerious. I put a dual mass in my ladies car, because of the above reasons, and because she doesn't drive stick as well as I do. It's way more forgiving to that type of driver, and more smooth when engaging. If it wasn't for those needs, I'd definitely pick a single mass.
one true fact not metioned here is the stress on bearings in the engine on the new diesel driven cars that are the low friction kinds, thus narrower rod and crank bearings,, an SMF will destroy that engine,, anyone not understanding that fact is a lost cause,, !
LMAO Yeah try explaining to some know it all kid.
Smf is the only way to go and save yourself money , dmf are just overpriced and useless.
Noel Kennedy unless your in a diesel,
Or you could go for a single mass..
And grenade the transmission at lower Rpms
Look it up
Agreed dmf is dogshit
This shit is why i love my peugeot 205 1.8 diesel.only ever have to lift my bonnet twice a year for services and maybe to top up washer bottle.
G'Day @TurboWank16v - We appreciate the enthusiasm! Keep it rockin with your Peugeot 205 🤟😎