8 things they dont tell you about disc brakes
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- čas přidán 2. 06. 2024
- Disc brakes have become an increasingly important part of the road bike world over the past few years, but while the benefits of disc brakes are well documented, they bring with them challenges and problems too.
Here are some of the issues that we've experienced and heard about. Let us know about your disc brake tips + tricks in the comments below.
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⚫️ In this video
0:00 Intro
0:30 Disk break rub can be an issue
2:34 Choosing pads is a minefield
3:35 You need to bed in new breaks
4:07 Maintenance involves new skills
5:01 They can squeal!
5:50 Rotors wear out... eventually
6:15 Disk breaks add weight
6:54 Disk Breaks affect aerodynamics
7:54 Outro
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My bike has a 1988 steel frame, rim brakes and down tube shifters. It’s my bike, it’s fab to ride and I love it. Love your bike and enjoy your ride whatever it may be 🚴🏼
Absolutely! Down tube shifters, they were cool, especially if you had two!
I still wish DT shifting was more common. I mostly love the State 4130 10-speed, but I wish there were more options available with a similar style drivetrain setup.
I loved mu tube shifters. No indexing gears or bad alignment you could just adjust the gears on the go
Can't say I miss down tube shifting. If you tried an entry level new road bike you might end up cheating on your old love.
@@tom0kiely Ha yes maybe! It’s of course true that a modern machine is going to be far superior technically.. It’s the same with modern cars v classic cars. However, a classic still has something to offer for some folk. For others, it won’t appeal and I can see why. Each to there own and there’s room for everyone 👍
There is so much to unpack here. Let's start with I've been a master technician for European highline cars for over 35 years. Plus have been involved with high performance vehicle suspension and brake setup. Disc brakes were first introduced for production in the late 40s from vehicles by Crosley and Chrysler. And since that time can anybody guess what people have been complaining about most? That's right brake noise squealing, chirping, chattering all of the above.
How disc brakes actually work. There is NO return mechanism inside of the brake caliper to pull the piston back to its original position. I've heard this statement being used by numerous websites about this as a disc brake function. The only thing inside the caliper is a seal, fluid and the piston. As pressure is applied from the master cylinder, transferring an increase of pressure against the back side of the piston and that's what squeezes the pads against the rotor. The amount of pressure that is applied is determined by the throat size inside the master cylinder and the diameter of the inside of the caliper. When you release the lever the only thing that happens is that the pressure is released. Depending on stiction between the piston and the seal will determine how much pressure is still left on the pad against the rotor. An optimal situation is the lowest amount of stiction between the piston and the seal so when the pressure is released the pad just glides against the surface of the rotor. The obnoxious noises you get from disc brakes is not from contaminated rotors it's from a vibration created between the rotor and the pad. Depending on the pad compounds, rotor metallurgy, temperature, moisture, glazing these all affect how much a pad vibrates inside the caliper against the rotor. Automotive manufacturers have been designing and redesigning shims and chemicals to apply between this brake pads, carriers and caliper pistons for years to reduce the amount of vibration.
Physics: The closer the rotor diameter to the wheel diameter thus reducing the delta the stronger the controlled force applied to tire against the ground. This is nothing more than calculating a leveraging force. What's one of the first things downhill mountain bikers upgrade? The rotor diameters.
This brings up another misconception your brakes do not stop your vehicle, it's the surface area of the tire against the ground. That's it!
F=ma; body weight, speed, tire surface area, tire compound, road compound/conditions, ambient temperature, moisture/humidity, % road gradient, cornering loads. All of the above are just some of the factors determining how much friction/energy is generated between the disc brake pads and the rotors.
Next; the longer the pads and rotors last the better the brakes. Wrong!
The faster the pads and the rotors wear away the better the heat dissipation, ie. the better friction/heat control. Metallic disc brake pads are not designed to make brakes last longer they're designed to dissipate the heat faster. Pulling the heat away from the rotors. The metal in the pads acts like heat sinks embedded in the pad material.
Brake pulsations are caused by the inability of the braking system to dissipate the heat. This creates a warpage on the rotor due to the metal expansion and contraction from excess friction/energy/heat. Another a little annoyance of this condition is heavy breaking during wet conditions. The accelerated cooling of the rotors from moisture also can create excessive warpage.
Next; brake fluid longevity. Back to f=ma, the loads generated on the disc brake system at the rotor and pads is energy, energy is heat, heat needs to dissipate. Another part of the brake system that heat affects is the fluid inside the caliper. Your brake fluid does not move, it's only a pressure transference between the master cylinder and the caliper piston. Fluid does not compress but it can heat up and cool off. The more the heat cycles affecting the brake fluid the sooner the chemical structure of the brake fluid breaks down which causes an oxidation of the fluid. This in turn creates a thickening or varnishing of the fluid creating an increase of stiction between the pistons and the seals. This is another piece of the puzzle causing an increase of residual pressure of the pads against the rotors. Since most bike brake service bleeds are from the caliper to the master the fluid should be completely replaced otherwise you can end up with contaminated fluid in the line or in the master or both.
One other fun little fact about brake fluids is they're highly hydroscopic.
All of these above conditions should be strongly considered for the amount of times you flush your brakes.
And then there's more to be considered, spoke tension, deflection and wheel rigidity under any of the above conditions. Wheel truing should be a much more routine service.
The bicycle disc brake system is very basic, with the industry forcing disc brakes as a standard without educating the consumer other than this is a better way to go. It is only going to cause a lot of friction, (←pun), between the technicians and cyclists. And the additional expense to the consumer in parts and maintenance.
So are disc brakes a good thing or a bad thing? I don't think there's been enough research and development put into what is really functionally viable as a long-term disc braking system for road bikes.
Disc brakes are fine. 4 years and 9000 miles of maintenance free riding on my entry level road disc brakes and they are still brilliant. Pad replacement is easy and they offer far more braking power and better modulation. Where I ride, the benefits far outweighs the negatives, many of which are exaggerated anyway as far as I an see.
👍👏
Solid explanation of how disks work and factors affecting braking. Excellent point too about the role of tires and rims. The simple bicycle has become far too complex with disks imo... it's a cash grab by manufactures to sell more replacement parts because on a rim brake all you'll replace is pads and cables. Now there's pads, cables and or fluid and hoses, rotors, bleed kits and a boatload of frustration in the learning curve. No thanks.
@@johnandrews3568 this is no different to any other "innovation" in cycling. Manufacturers need to keep introducing new tech in order to try and persuade people to buy new bikes. It's no different to mobile phones, the business model requires consumers to regularly upgrade. I doubt this has much to do with maintenance and everything to do with selling more bikes.
The answer is to not fall for this. No one needs to change their bike every few years and if you're worried about obsolescence of parts, buy some spares. Rim brakes aren't expensive, so keep a spare set.
Of course if you want to get a new bike every 2 or 3 years, then you may have a problem.
@@peterfenwick4662 disks suck, period full stop. They should be offered as an option, not just stop making rim brake bikes. Mark my words, in time, rim brakes will be the next new cool must have thing.
Rim brakes on off-road bikes clog up with mud, snow etc, I fully understand the move to disc brakes for mountain, cross and gravel bikes. On the road, we're often told that disc brakes provide consistent power in all conditions, this may be true but the amount of power that can actually be applied in braking is related to road conditions; on wet tarmac where grip is limited on narrow slick tyres, the strategy should be light, progressive braking along with good anticipation on the part of the cyclist.
My viewpoint as mountain biker, who tried few roadbikes and have seen alot of expensive road bikes.
I personally will "never" buy roadbike with rim brakes, because ill probably want to get something more "expensive". Not talking about 20k bike, but something up to 105 with nice wheels and hydraulic disc brakes, My reasons are that I wont need to change stupid cables that rust, Ill have really light feel on the brake lever and also My rims wont wear because of the f-ing rim brakes... Have you ever thought how stupid it is. You buy XXXX USD Carbon wheelset. And because you ride alot, you do alot of descends, in about year or two your rim is worn out, and you will have to sneeze another few hundred dollar for new rim, spokes and relacing... This is absolute bullshit. Roadbiking is a f-ing scam.
So, next time you buy a bike, you get yourself nice bike with disc brakes and nice hubs. So whenever you have a problem, everything is easier to replace. Bearings, freehub body, your rotor and pads.
If you go hydraulic, you will have really light lever feel, that allows you to have better brake control.
Some Sram hydraulic brakes are kinda shit. Or work better only with brake lever adjusted for bigger hands/ further from the bar.
Speaking of road conditions, areas with a lot of sand or mud making their way into the roads also greatly benefit from disc brakes. Rims just get covered in grit, and you die a little bit inside everytime you hear that scratching noise ruining your brake tracks.
That's just how you brake a two wheeled vehicle.
I know carbon rims made disc brakes necessary but for me neither are worth the hassle. A hand built aluminum wheel and high-end rim brakes give great performance and a completely trouble-free. There's a lot to be said for low maintenance low cost and durability.
Carbon rims didn't make disk brakes necessary, though. Carbon rims can have an added thin steel braking surface so as to use them with V-brakes.
I rode rim brakes and carbon wheels for yeas and never had an issue - ok you have to know not to ride the brakes to avoid over heating but who does that anyway ?
Not true, carbon wheels are compatible with rim breaks.
Rim brake rules, disc only on the rain,but who like to ride at rain.
Rim brake wheels are hevi,aerodynamic is bad etc,so rim brake only.
Honestly sick of the rim v disc comments, they're both fine. Just ride your bike and stop preaching about your preferred choice
The problem is rim brake road bikes are getting harder to get, and the bike can’t be converted back. I ride only alloy rims so no necessity for disc brakes, that’s the real reason road bikes had to go disc thanks to F’in carbon rim associated failures. Too many liability cases - injuries and worse. I don’t want any squealing. My Shimano disc have a mind of their own, squeal when they feel like it, probably humidity/temp related. Damn racket louder than any horn. Took decades for car brake manufacturers to figure out how to end squeal. Adding more weight will work but the weight weenies will complain as usual.
I disagree, disc brakes are a over complication on road bikes that add little or no advantage.
Agreed, BUT everyone's entitled to their opinions. One fact is true though. Disc brakes are simply more powerful stopping devices. One of the most popular arguments doesn't deny this, but asks is the power necessary on a road bike. I've riding mountain bikes and now road bikes for over 25 years. I welcome the progression of technology. I've been on discs for over three years and love them. They are only slightly more complicated than rim brakes if you've learned how to bleed and adjust them. They are now relatively light. Bike vary so much in weights, it's really not going to be an issue really except in their minds. My Tarmac is near the UCI weight limit at 15lb and change with pedals. They don't squeal. The pads, in addition to being clean, also need to be centered at the point of contact, touching the rotor at the same time otherwise may squeal. Almost all these complaints are user errors. They said the same about front hydraulic shocks when they came out and most didn't need them on all light dirt trails.
The big problem is that most manufakturers don’t give you the choice. I can’t buy for example a new Tarmac or a Emonda with rim brake anymore so that makes it hard to ride my preferred choice.
@@schenkieweb bingo 👍
Thank you. I started cycling in 1952. I never thought that disc brakes were right for bicycles. Never had them. Intend to never fit them to my bikes.
Yes, disc brakes do squeal - half of the peloton in the Australian National Criterium Championship in Ballarat in torrential rain in January 2020, had disc brakes. Deafening scream every time at the bottom turn. Horrendous noise. All professional teams.
Thank you.
David out.
Been cycling seriously since 1967, pro racing in the 80s. I have 7 bikes equipped with discs and one with linear and one roady with calipers. Yes, some of my disc brake bikes squeal when heating up, some don't, hate the noise...but....I live in the mountains, some descents are 10 miles long with hairpins all the way down, disc brakes heat up but continue to work for the 15minutes of descent without fade or problems. Off roading, I will never use rim brakes again, period. Wish there was a disc brake system that actually worked without problems....you would think this is not that complicated of an engineering problem to solve....but....we get bottom of the barrel engineers in most the bike manufacturers...drug addict engineers who cheated their way through school. 2021 bikes prove that irrefutably. Weak wheels, stupid cog spacing (ratios) index shifting for front derailleurs, index shifting is stupid design and made for beginners only, frames for the recreation adhering to UCI rules, tires that can't take a thorn without flatting, bike pumps that leak at the seal, drivetrains that wear out in 3000 miles, rear tires wear out in 1000 miles.....just 50 years of stupidity and never fixing problems.
But I bet the cyclists were actually braking instead of wishing their bike would pull up with rim brakes.
Well, I have mechanical campy rim brakes on my 2004 Litespeed, and disc on my Di2 2021 BMC……love riding them both and enjoy them for what they are . I also sail and this whole brake thing is exactly like the sailors getting all worked up over their preferred anchor , :)
Apples to oranges my friend.
yep, it's just people afraid of trying a "new" thing, they want to stick to their old tried and true tech and refuse to try anything different.
Can't wait to see the next video... 10 great things about disc brakes!
There's no great thing about them
Fuckkk disc brakes…. The worst invention
Yup I agree with others, disk brakes suck, they've been squealing like crazy for me and I've tried every trick in the book to fix it, at this point I'm just bringing my bike to a bike shop to get it repaired professionally. Keep in mind that it's only been 5 months of riding my ebike, and it started squealing at the third month.
@@germanortiz7298 better braking and they look better. Helps with integration in the frame without rim brake mechanism
I have been using RIM brakes for over 30 years and never had a problem. They have worked great for me for all that time and not once have I thought "wish I had disk brakes" I do have disk brakes on my mountain bike but I had no choice on that one and I cannot see what the fuss is about.... I will stick to my RIM brakes for as long as I can I am not getting on the band waggon
Disc Brakes are for idiots who like the latest fad whatever crap it may be. Rim Brakes are superior in every way on a bicycle since bicycles are powered by humans and easily stopped by humans. Furthermore disc brakes gives a TON of issues when the rotors have even the slightest wobble and out of true sometimes in the heat the pistons will push out and rub on the pads sending you to a grinding hault and stranded. A rim brakes you can literally just adjust it with your fingers furthermore rim brakes allow for bikes 1KG lighter and more.
For a pro going 100KMH downhill trying to make up seconds , serious business, and a mechanic on hand to fix any problems , bloody oath discs. BUT for me at home , ride every day , just not needed. I have them on my hard tail MTB because you do need them on steep slow descents .
One important thing to remember is that some rotors CANNOT take anything but resin pads.
My rotor is stamped with "use resin pads only" - dont swap one without the other
They can actually take semi-metallic pads or ceramic pads. They just won't last as long as they would have lasted with resin pads because they're (the rotors are) made of aluminum instead of steel.
Steel rotors are always fine with whatever pads you buy.
It's... often worth doing to go to semi-metallic or ceramic pads just to save maintenance time. How much time do you want to spend on your knees replacing pads? I know people who do that weekly because they refuse to switch to longer-lasting pads. Steel rotors aren't hideously expensive, and you're probably not trying to squeeze that last 1/100 of a second out of a 10K run, so aluminum rotors are nearly never worth having.
Have an mtb disc bike. Never changed a disc after ten years. Just did the pads. I wouldn't convert to them but i learned to live with them. No better no worse.
I've had disc brakes on mtb for a couple of years short of a couple of decades, and I've never had any problem there. so on my new road bike I of course opted for discs and I was very happy this monday when I went crazy down a hill only to be greeted with a above 45 degree bend that I had to apply all my braking force to slow down to. on my old rim brake bike I'm not sure I would have stopped fast enough. But I understand that some like the simplicity of rim brakes, I'm just happy I got options now.
They're good until they start squealing, that problem is insufferable to deal with
I have just got into bicycles and have been having a lot of fun working on my bike, having come from cars and motorcycles it's really fun to have such easy access to everything lol.
I've got a disc on the front and and rim brake on the rear. I like the feel of it, similar in some ways to a motorcycle brake feel. The front suspension loads at a good rate to get a nice progressive front brake pressure curve.
I used to have the same setup on my Giant TCR by swapping the fork. Great idea 💡
disc brakes are a good source of income for manufacturers and dealers alike.
Guess why moto gp racebikes have 2 set of disc brakes in the front.... 1. is cooling factor, 2. is increased breaking power, 3. it wont bring your wheel out of balance when you break, which happens when you apply force on one side of a wheel. You may adapt to it, but on a race bike which weights 7.5 kg this is freaking sketchy. As a non pro, you dont wanna change your wheels every 10k or less when descending quite often. You dont want to put WAAAAAY more force onto your fork while breaking. Its just stupid
@@user-vw4hv4dj4e a motogp bike has more weight and speed to contend with than a bicycle.
@@tomnewham1269 Thats not really the case though. Going downhill with 100 kmh per hour over a long period of time with a lot of breaking is way more force than what u have with a moto gp bike. Moto gp bike weights 160 kg makes a total of 220 kg max. A cyclist weights probably 65 kg including the bike (light rider). The moto gp bike goes 300ks per hour, the bycicle 100. The kmh per kg ratio is better than with the moto gp bike (in the cicumstance of having a light rider on it. Someone with 80 kg drops below moto gp level, which means more force on the brakes than with a moto gp bike. So no its fucking unsafe, givin that everyone uses the same stupid brakes dispite their weight. Safety and good breaking is freaking essential and this is damn careless
@@user-vw4hv4dj4e But the brakes on a road bike are not as large or powerful than the brakes on a Motogp bike and the Motogp bike and rider still weigh more than a road bike and rider. It is not careless as good braking technique is required whether disc brakes or rim brakes are being used. The brakes are not stupid and they would not be installed on bikes if they were unsafe as the bike manufacturers would not risk litigation being taken out on them.
A lot more smarter people than you would have done research and development on these system braking systems and pass numerous tests before being leashed out to the public.
@@morgan98801 I agree there should be a choice. Not everyone will find a benefit with disc brakes and rim brakes will be suffice for them. A lot of the disc brake haters out there are just Luddites and have no logic in their dislike of them. They come up with so much crap just to try to point that they are right and everybody else is wrong. I guess a lot of that hatred comes from that the fact there will be no choice in the matter when it comes to purchasing a high end road bike and a lot of the hatred towards disc brakes would go away if manufacturers continue the option of kitting out your bike with either brake type.
Don't get me started on the 26, 27.5 and 29 inch wheel debate. Again there should be the choice in wheel size but unfortunately that is not the case no more. I do hope manufacturers turn back the clock and offer either wheel choice on their MTB's.
This channel is refreshing! The presenter is top notch! keep it up!
Caught by surprise at 5:07 and laughed so hard! Good one!
Do like my disc brakes but find them annoying, after watching ur video did help understand how they work and what to look for. Thanks
I've had disc brakes five years now, changed the pads a few times, and yeah that's about it. No squealing, no hassles, and pad changes take maybe ten minutes tops. If you can bleed the brakes on your car you can bleed them on your bike, it's just not that hard. Use what you want, but disc brakes are just peachy IMO, especially when monsoon season rolls around.
(Edit) I've got two bikes, one for commuting and one for fun.
Rim brake die-hards perhaps don't realize that the overwhelming majority of cyclists around the world don't service their own bikes beyond maybe changing out inner tubes, if even that. They go to their LBS.
Given that fact, most people choose disc brake models for the simple fact that they "feel" better when it comes to power modulation. Oh, then there's also the self-adjusting aspect of disc brakes, with no need to fiddle with barrel adjusters and the like to adjust for pad wear and rim spacing. Plenty of people can't even be bothered doing that.
If most riders simply go to a mechanic for bike setup and repairs, thus eliminating the supposed hassle of setting up or maintaining disc brakes, why would they choose brakes that have arguably inferior lever feel, even when set up correctly, and worse modulation?
Having both worked on cars, as well as being a bike mechanic, the disk brakes on cars are actually easier to service than the ones on bikes!
@@lihtan I'm a car mechanic, and I can confirm that bleeding a car is far easier than bleeding Sram brakes.
Shimano's all right, though.
I'll continue to ride rim brakes until you can't get rim brake frames anymore.
@@lihtan really?
Not on any car I've ever worked on 😆
@@peterfenwick4662 Let's do a few comparisons here. On a car, the brake calipers are usually attached with something like two 14mm bolts. The caliper only goes on one way. You line up the bolt holes, torque it down, and you're done. On a bicycle, the caliper will be attached with a pair of 5mm hex bolts that go through slotted holes. You have to manually center the caliper often to a fraction of a millimeter. Then there's also the issue of rotor warp. As much as I like the performance of disk brakes on a bike, they're not plug-and-play like they are on a car.
On cars where I've had to do more involved work like caliper upgrades, or swapping in stainless brake hoses, I would also install a set of Russell Performance Speed Bleeders. unlike the factory bleed screws, the Speed Bleeders have an internal ball valve that allows one person to easily bleed the brakes by themselves. Simply open the screw, and pump the brake pedal until you see clear fluid. Couldn't be easier! The one instance where bleeding brakes on a car would be nightmare, is if you have purge an air bubble out of an ABS modulator. You typically need access to dealership equipment that can use a proprietary factory protocol to cycle the modulator.
Cheap pro tip: Bar Keepers Friend is great for cleaning rotors.... they are stainless after all and BKF passivates and removes oxidation bringing the surface back to new. A good bed-in is required after cleaning.
My first road bike had rim brakes and compared to the cable operated discs on my cheap hybrid they felt crap.
So when I bought a new road bike I specifically looked for discs. I bought the cheapest road bike with hydraulic discs I could find. Honestly, they are so much better than rim brakes, over 4 years and 9000 miles have required no maintenance other than replacement pads and give great performance. I regularly ride on the North Yorkshire Moors and there are plenty of descents where you need strong brakes and they are much better than rim brakes.
The weight thing and the aero are only important if you are entering competition. You'll save more weight buying a smaller phone, or taking a shit before you set off.
If I'm not mistaken, discs are ever so slightly heavier (like dozens of grams)
Also they are suppised to be more aero, there are more liberties for fork and stay design and the calipers are generally hidde, and rotors themselves have virtually no impact on aero
I hate rim brakes for other reasons...but a good caliper brake (shimano sora or better) will have no problem stopping your bike. What stops your bike is the skill of braking, tires and road surface.
@@WildernessMusic_GentleSerene tell that to a 25% gradient with a hairpin bend at the bottom. My last roadbike had Shimano rim brakes and they simply wouldn't stop you quickly enough if you were going any kind of speed and coming to a dead stop was almost impossible. Even if you weren't you're squeezing the hell out of the levers. If it's wet just forget it.
Discs brakes are just so much nicer to use and it is no longer a white knuckle event.
@@WildernessMusic_GentleSerene even simpler models (Shimano MT 200s combined with Tourney disc rotors) will stop your road bike without problems with 180 mm rotors at the front and 160 at the rear.
XT brakes etc have the purpose to reduce lever force to get 4 of 5 fingers on the bar and only 1 on the brake, which is needed on downhill. A road bike also works with 3 finger brakes
@@peterfenwick4662 yea, my sora brakes have significantly less stopping power than my GRX disc brake setup. it is not even comparable.
Rim brakes , powerful , easy to adjust and maintain and never fail
Disc brakes, even more powerful with less lever pull, work consistently in the wet unlike rim brakes, no damage or wear to the rims, less maintenance, just better all round, but it's whatever a person prefers at the end of the day.
@@bertieballs Rim brakes work beautifully for my riding demands but I'm sure I'd be a fan of discs if I was more of a cycling fanatic . So yes you're right it whatever suits you
@@bertieballs My disc brakes require more maintenance than the rims tho! Also, the disc brakes give you more power if you're using rotors bigger than 140mm, the 140mm give a similar braking performance to the rims! I think that if you live in a hilly area and do loads of descends (like me) you'll certainly benefit from discs if you, however, live in a flat area just stick to the rims honestly!
Well presented.
A little more clearance for the pads would be good. Keeping rim for the road bike, disc was the only option really for my gravel.
i have a cheap bike that had front and rear mechanical disc brakes. i replaced the front brake with a hydraulic brake. i freaking love it! i can actually stop in a reasonable distance now. i like disc just not mechanical disc.
What a great message in the back!
It's from AOSP by Anthony Oram if you're interested! He does some great stuff
This why I brought a giant tcr 2021 with no disc brakes. No stress no issues just ride
Way to go dude
Same!!! Haha
Just like my SL6 and winter bike.
No issues.
Both disc equipped.
Glad to know they're actually available to buy. The Advanced Pro for example: full Ultegra, carbon wheels and a power meter all for US$3.6K? Sounds unreal these days.
@Guitar Noize what you consider as no issue is irrelevant. For those of us who maintain our own bikes, we don't want to deal with the hassle of them. And they are a hassle. The actual advantages (vs promoted) are not worth it. We should be given choice, not it being pushed on us just for the industry to make an increased profit. THAT is the advantage of disk. For them not us.
One thing not addressed by the video is performance in sub-freezing weather. If you ride in snow, the brake rotors heat up above freezing, melting any snow on the rotors. Don't use the brakes for a while, and your rotors and pads become coated with ice. The coefficient of friction of ice on ice is... uhhh... somewhat less than pads on metal. Ask me how I know. 😀 (I rode mountain bikes for 30 years in Alaska.) It only takes a second or two for the brakes to grab again, but under some circumstances those seconds can be memorable.
got v brakes and 26 inch wheels. not worried about never getting parts, ever.
My tour heavyweight has had a SA XL-FDD dyno DRUM brake wheel. After 2 tours and 26,000+ miles, it's had but 1 needed bearing change. ZERO fuss, squeals and barely any cleaning required. The pads are still just fine. The brake arm is getting close to the limit, but may just need to be repositioned. The cable actually went 20,000 miles/ both tours.
The Dyad rim and spokes are as good as new. It's now on it's third bike. LOL.
Rim for road discs for dirt. SwissStop Black Prince pads on my Ultegra callipers work superbly on my carbon rims.
I find them a lot more effective than Shimano’s too!
Call me when your rims wear out.
@@m0nss7erKill I’ll find you. I’ll hear your discs squealing from over here!
@@Lestalad1961 ah yes.. they are not squealing like contaminated brakes, bit more like "really stopping brakes" still annoying.
But in other words, I have shitton of stopping power
@@m0nss7erKill I have to wonder how we all survived before discs on road bikes? I bet statistically they’ve made no difference to road bike accidents
Thinking about switching to a new bike with disc brake from my Basso Diamante with ultegra direct mount brakes on oxic alloy from DT Swiss, but I will test first whether the new R8100/R9200 hold their promise. The older versions seemed to be something like experimental technique for me, interesting, but with all the noise, buckling, brake fading, and pad erosion not so usable ( I love db on gravel and mtb, that said - but not yet on a road bike).
If I switch, not because of braking power - I am fine with direct mount. After all, the maximum torque the brakes can deliver is bounded by adhesion and radius of tires, and all brakes capable to deliver more than that torque cannot be used to their full potential on a road bike where you don't want to slip down the street with blocked tires. I even do not think that the mostly unchanged power of disc brakes in the wet is such a good selling point, because the tires will loose contact much earlier in the wet, so at least I have to be very careful using disc brakes under such conditions.
Having on a road bike no tire studs biting the ground like a gravel or mtb I am not so much interested in the question which braking system delivers most unusable power.
But because the separation of rim and braking surface gives room to optimize both without compromise which opens up more options for good rims and good brakes - the system is modular. This is for me the real advantage.
Would be nice to see a review of the newer disc brakes from shimano and a comparison with the older ones, especially with an eye on the problems mentioned in video here.
Any experiences? Oh, and of course I will keep my Basso.
Refreshing to hear some honest talk about disc brakes
Not so honest if you pay attention….but it’s a start!
I would change the disc part and swap to the rim part… just sayin…
Well, that or clickbait rubbish.
What an excellent presenter 👌👌👌
Chris Froome knows everything!
The same Chris Froome who can't do simple maintenance? The one who crashed into a wall while using rim brakes? That Chris Froome?
😝
Been out riding bikes with the kids this summer, now I watch bike video's? I have a 10 year old Trek with V-brakes and I love these brakes! I however, hate U-brakes that often come on kids' bikes. All rim brakes are not the same... obviously. But I think that V-brakes are amazing and simple, and I can't see why I would ever need more than that. So, I feel that the big argument really boils down to type of rim brakes, and biking style. I think that good disc brakes will be expensive, and will only benefit those who ride a lot and don't have V-brake options. I think the industry is developing high quality disc brakes on the backs of bikes that are basically just rode for leisure, yet receiving low-quality disc brakes that have no clear advantage over V-brakes, and are probably not as good overall in cost and weight. Then, the Disc enthusiast wants us to spend more to re-gain better brakes we already had!? For leisure? When is enough, enough? Most kids bike brakes systems in my neighborhood don't even function properly if at all. The cables are seized/rusted, the pads gone, the brakes not adjusted. Most would have been better off having the crank-brake, at least they could stop the bike. Lever-brakes have just resulted in a sea of poorly maintained kids-bikes that are pure junk now and were never great to begin with. I think we'll see this trend next in leisure-adult bikes with Disc brakes. Too complicated and costly to fix, poor quality from the start, foisted upon the ignorant masses for the benefit of a few.
Thumbs up for the picture!
Good video! Nothing you can do about flat mounted calipers when the surface is not true, except get out the file ;)
Post mount calipers allow for proper alignment, and if they are aligned, rub is not an issue.
When bedding brakes, it should not be a complete stop. Squeal is always embarrassing, but rare when the pads are bedded properly and the disks are uncontaminated. You can be careful not to touch or spill things on the rotors, but you can't help it when they get road splash!
Disk brake squeal is not as bad as rim brake chatter though, and on a recent group ride, a friend made a panic stop and his mis-adjusted rim brakes twisted and ripped his front tire open. He's the most fortunate guy in the world though, as it happed in front of a bike shop that had his size tire in stock.
One thing I really dislike about mechanical disk brakes, is that they usually only have one piston pushing from one side. This basically flexes the rotor to meet the stationary inner pad, and excessive flexing can fatigue the rotor. I converted mine to hydraulic mostly for this reason.
Disc Brakes are for morons at the end of the day and becomes a nightmare if you don't get a really skilled mechanic to service them, Rim brakes has none of these issues literally none
Everything in life is a balance :)
Disc brakes are more powerful but heavier and more complicated.
Alloy rims then rim brakes are fine.
Carbon rims then go disc :p
Here's my 2 pence worth having had a rim split and the long sliver of rim jamb my wheel solid ,back one, plus the fact I replaced both wheels 4 times over a 20 year period on my old first gen muddy fox mountain bike which I put drop bars and slick tyres on for touring I quite like discs now lot less hassel
Disc pads come with chamfered bottom edge .I chamfer the three other edges on pads with a fine metal file before installing to reduce brake rub.
its a 5 day wait for service so i spent 1000.00 usd on a proper tool set. i can do everything but lace and tune wheels and service suspension seals.
Disc brakes rock! Rim brakes scare me to death in the wet. New Shimano brakes give 10% extra clearance so hopefully that fixes the occasional rubbing.
As someone who owns a disc road bike, save yourself the headache and get a rim brake. Discs are marketing hype and belong to cyclo/gravel.
LMAO BULL, hydro disc on the road bike was my best decision ever and never going back
@@alen-commentnazi8774 hey man if it works for you great. Don't need to defend your purchase to me.
Totally agree with you, it's not as awesome and its marketing hype. I still stick to rim brakes
Just learn how to set them up. All the problems are user error.
@@rocketboyxbb it is only marketing hype until you try them and then you will understand why a lot of us love them.
I gave a like and subscribe just because of the 🐐 squealing disk sequence. 😆 🤣 😂
If oil soaks into your pads the simple fix is just take them out put then in a pan of water on the stove, bring to boil then add detergent. Cook them for 10 minutes in the boiling water then take them out and cool them and rinse.
😂
I was always told that when bedding in new pads, NOT to come to a complete stop. That it's always best to press the brakes until you are just about stopped but still moving, then keep doing that.
Just one thing. The ticking of the discs after braking comes from the heated disc cooling down and not from the calipers as said in the video
Some no contact magnetic brakes that can' t wear out and turn brake power into energy would be great... integrated into wheels and frame...
They don't work so well at lower speeds & add a lot more weight but in principle, they are great.
E Bikes with non geared hub motors can do regen braking, a magnetic brake which stores the energy in the battery
Thankyou and goodnight from the news at 9
the worst thing that they never told about disk brakes on road bikes is that .. it is meant to fix something which isn't broke .. i'm sticking with my DA9000 rim brakes
There was nothing wrong with downtube shifters either, so combined brake levers/shifters are also a solution to a problem which didn't exist. I'm guessing you have those though?
@@TheRip72 transferring shifters from the down tube to the hoods is far different .. admit it or not, in terms of convenience and efficiency shifters are far better placed on the hoods than on the down tube .. i cannot see that point of comparison insofar as disk brakes vis-à-vis rim brakes .. sorry
@@attybong It is what you are used to, nothing more. I appreciate that moving from brifters to DT is awkward, but DTs are not a problem for somebody brought up with them, which is exactly the argument you used against disc brakes.
@@TheRip72 as i have said, efficiency and convenience wise, downtube shifters and sti are far different, no such much difference exists between diskbrakes and rimbrakes .. it's not about being previously used to it
if today you race a road bike with down tube shifters along side road bikes with sti, you would not have a chance of winning ..
on the other hand, bikes with rimbrakes are keeping up and in fact still kept winning against those with diskbrakes ..
truth is, diskbrakes have yet to win a grand tour, that's why in this year's giro, sponsors (except for ineos, which won just the same using rimbrakes courtesy of bernal) require teams to exclusively use diskbrake designed frames, just so that diskbrakes would have a sure shot at winning grand tours, with no opposition so to speak.
finally something sensible on the cycling media
Just got a bike two months ago with disc brakes and have had nothing but problems. Squeaking and it inconsistent braking force. I took it into the bike shop twice already as well as trying to resurface and bed them myself. Got a whole new set of rotors and pads after just one month of use. I’m about ready to take it back to the shop again.
Give me rim brakes over disc brakes any day.
The fact is that all cycling brands are making disc brake bike and parts, so at the end, we are been pushed to use disc brake bike. I prefer the brake calipers!
true - even city-bikes are now sold with discbrakes - thats just ridiculous..
Agreed with what was said. Next bike I.ll return to rim breaks.
I got an endurace cf sl with disc brakes and its been nothing but a pain in the ass to ride and to maintain. Brake rub since day one (sitting, standing, sprinting, climbing and descending), pads lasting for a month (I live in a hilly area), none of the LBS had the adaptor to bleed (ultegra brakes) had to order online, brake rotors bending and wearing out from heat, being extra careful with the levers when a wheel is off, can't put bike upside down, having to remove pads and/or discs when washing, isopropyl alcohol, worst of all is that brake hoods don't even fit tight on the lever (poor design).
The question is why are we all buying them (including me) if they suck.
Hey Rodrigo,
I have the same bike with disc brakes, live also in a hilly area (near black forest in germany) and I have no problems with my disc brakes. After 7000km I just needed 3 brake pads, no bleeding, overall they are just working fine. Brake rubbering happens only slightly when I am sprinting and "throwing" the bike to the left and right to support the sprint. Damn that you have so many problems :(
Last time I was driving with a friend with rim brakes and on some tracks he had to slow down generally because of brake performance. Another nice thing about the disc brakes is that I don't have to worry about overheating the rims and to melt my TPU tubes (aerothan from Schwalbe).
Wow, that’s a lot of problems. Is there some misalignment in the frame or something. Presumably there is a root cause to the rubbing. So far so good for me on my BMC roadmachine with Ultegra disc brakes. I am heavy at 91 kg, and feel a level of confidence running latex tubes and not worrying about the rims heating up on long descents. On my rim brake bike I run butyl tubes and don’t worry about them.
I have only had to bleed my mtn bike brakes twice in 11 years, and found it strangely soothing watching the bubbles…..I have operated the brakes occasionally with the wheel out by mistake, but no real drama just push the pistons back with a large flat screw driver . I have never removed the pads, discs while washing the bike . For a deep clean I remove the chain anyway, so not getting degreaser all over the place.
@@SaschaN Hey Sascha
There is no doubt that brake performance is improved, specially in long steep descents. Also the fact that there is no brake track on the wheels that wears out with time.
I may have defective brake calipers or levers or indeed an alignment issue with the frame. I also suspect wheels are not very stiff and that may cause rubbing (DT swiss db spline)
All in all, I love the bike but I could like it even more without all those issues.
@@chapmag6578 Hey Glenn.
What kind of brake pads do you use? I tried resin and metallic but I had to replace rotors soon after.
@@RodrigoLopez-tw3nx just for helping: did you already try to realign the brake unit with loosing the screws at the flat mount unit and trigger the brakes so that the unit aligns to the disc rotor? A torque wrench is recommended for this.
The only thing I would change about disc brakes is to stop forcing them on everyone.
Leave choice on the table.
For years there was a choice and sales of rim kept falling. As a business would you keep producing something that didn't sell? I think they should produce both but I can see why they don't.
@@dh7314 yes, that's how it works with new stuff, people buy it.
As of late we can see that buyers ( maybe more experienced cyclists by now ) realised it's not what is was promised to be, or not worth dealing with for what is supposed to be improved braking.
All it takes to fit rim brakes is a hole in the crown. Would be interesting to see how that would play out if both ciuld be used on the same frame, not like it takes alot of engineering, as the frames are already stiffer for disc brakes.
So yea as far as I'm concerned, the costs are minimal. Obviously I'm talking about road bikes, gravel and mountain bike are a different story. However even with the trend of wider tyres, on road bikes, people still use 25-32mm tyres, which is 100% safe and doable with regular rim calipers, my commuter bike is setup with 32mm tyres and standard rim brakes, no issues whatsoever.
@@cosinus_square very good points. I'm neither in the disc or rim camp, I ride both. Rim are less maintenance but not maintenance free and disc are more consistent but the pay off is a little bit of housekeeping which isn't difficult whatsoever. If I was buying another bike tomorrow I'd be open to both camps but would probably still choose disc for the consistency.
@@dh7314 rim brakes are consistent as well if the correct braking surface is a given, as in a clean aluminium brake track.
Rim brakes were not designed for carbon rims as much as disc brakes were not designed for carbon rotors.
The same suitable braking surface with no contamination is a requirement for disc brakes as well.
If aggresively used, disc brakes fade, regardless if used in dry or wet conditions, which is not comparable with rim brake fade in the wet, allthough with the correct wet pads, and proper set up, they do brake very well. I mentioned proper setup as both systems require setup to, at least, manufacturer specifications to operate as designed.
Brake fade is non existent in dry conditions with rim brakes. In both statements I have not included rider dragging brakes as that is simply user error and has nothing to do with performance.
I consider brake fade to be a bigger issue (than the other big, allthough fake, selling point of disc brakes: no need to replace rims for wear, which is false) because one of the big claims of disc brakes is consistency.
If my math is correct, the result is that people are simply using the wrong rims (carbon) for rim braking systems and expecting something out of this world, as far as I'm concerned the two are never to be used together.
Yeah, same with f...E shifting ...
I've used both on my different Giants hard-tails mostly for every day street use. Discs are ok but they increase the retail bike price about $100, last a year or so before needing pad replacement at $20/wheel and they squeal loudly when wet. The only real advantage I can see over rim brakes is that if you pop a spoke the out-of-true wheel won't slap against the brake caliper until you can get it fixed.
E-bikes and high performance bikes will benefit mostly from disc brakes imo. Rim brakes are plenty fine if you're just riding around town and on bike paths.
7:30 "With proper integration," discs... more aero than "traditional" rim brakes. What about rim brake calipers, "properly" integrated into the fork and seatstay? Surely the opportunities for aero improvements lie in that latter area?
Good video, by the way. The narrator has an air of detachment and impartiality that I like.
and the higher spoke count on front disc wheel is less aero than a radial 18 spoke front rim brake wheel. Spoke count was always given as a greater aero issue than minor rim shape differences not so long ago by the cycling media...
@@andhib Good point.
I'm being told now, that disc braked TT bikes are more aero than older rim braked ones, as if we are supposed to celebrate the fact that the previous generation of machines were as bad as if they had bricks bolted to the frame.
Incremental innovation has become a religion.
Looking to get a bike rack for my 1.25 hitch that can handle both road and big mtn bike tires an suggestions (tires 28 gravel and 29 mtn)
Disc breaks are a great way to scare the shit out of the guy behind you in a pace line. Rim breaks give the rider behind you an additional cue that the pace speed is changing. Seeing a little rim break trimming on the rear wheel is just a bit more information being passed along the pace line.
hello brake lights.
Here in southern California it rarely rains. I ride street and never ride in rain. Can't see the point in getting a new bike just for discs.
Guess bmx'ers agreed to disagree and invented the footjam technique.
Which is better disc brakes or rim brakes? Hmmmm.. Both systems have pros and cons but one thing is for sure bikes equipe with either system needs human power to work. No matter what system you have in your bike, just ride and enjoy. 😁
In my experience, disc pads wear sooner than rim brakes. So, they are more expensive to maintain. Also, since disc brake became fashionable, the bikes equipped with disc are considerable more expensive.
You hit the nail on the head - fashionable
Its all about these gainzzzzzzz ...lol (disc brakes are the worst thing that happened to road bikes due to a non-imaginative industry pushing them down your throats)
Go on Amazon and look at the price of pads, I've been using a pair of metallic sintered pads that I got for $12.00 for over a year now and they work awesome, and it's on my mountain bike so I'm getting dirt and grime on them constantly with no brake fade. People shy away from new things and want to stick to the old tried and true and end up missing out on some great stuff because of their refusal to go with something new, even though disc brakes aren't a new technology. I bet $100 that people absolutely refused to go with Carbon road frames when they first came out but guess what, they've proven themselves and now almost every single professional rider uses a carbon frame.
Welcome to the brave new world. 8)
Similar things are happening with cars. They artificially enhance the popularity of some feature (usually touted as a racing improvement or a luxury improvement), then make everything else obsolete and crank up the price. Nearly none of the money we spend on vehicles of any sort can be truly justified.
@@timhofstetter5654 like for real, I'm looking for bicycles within my budget and the disc brake version of a model is usually £150 more when the bicycle only costs £400 without discs for example
Had nothing but hassle with disc brakes rubbing, hydraulic issues, accidentally getting degreaser on the rotors and ruining the brake pads (my fault I know) my road bike with callipers is so much easier (and cheaper) to maintain.
I do prefer disc brakes and haven't had the issues you have. But, you are correct. They are more complex and expensive to maintain.
Must be a lousy mechanic..lol. Never had an issue with any of the 3 disc brake bikes I own
@@cannon1156 this is often the problem
@@dh7314 .. rim brake pads still need special adjustment of toe on the pads to get efficient use. The OP mentioned getting degreaser on the pads. Why would you be using degreaser? If cleaning a chain take it off. It is just signs of poor mechanical work not the brakes fault
@@cannon1156 err, I was agreeing with you. I find most peoples moans about discs are because they're useless at maintaining them. Discs aren't complicated.
Use finned rotors and organic pads so the pistons return faster. Resin pads don't dissipate as much heat to the caliper and oil so there's less expansion. A larger disc or one with fins are needed because that's where the heat will need to be dissipated.
Disc brakes are good because $2k carbon rims are no longer a consumption item
That is a clear advantage which discredits the nonsense argument I frequently see that "disc brakes are an answer to an issue which does not exist".
Who told you 2 buy $2k carbon rims? The bike industry, sponsored riders on TV or your ego? I bought a 1500g hand-assembled alloy wheelset for $100, a consumption item for my R8000 rim brakes...
I hate that carbon melting smell on a big technical downhill run with pads, discs are so much better.
@@beepboop205 I had not even considered that. I don't have a problem with people preferring one over the other (& agree with the dislike of being forced to go for discs), but I do find the argument that "they are a solution to a problem which does not exist" is flawed because they clearly do have some advantages over rim brakes.
There is increasing rumours that discs are damaging spokes and hubs.
2015 Madone w rim brakes. All I need
Forget rim and disc brakes. If I want to stop my bike I'll crash into the nearest object. Works like a charm and gives me the excuse to get a new bike.🤪
You are Chris Froome and I claim my prize
A track bike rider on the road...a fixie person.
What happened to putting your foot down and wearing out ya shoe lol.
Like just for the goat squeal!
“You can just take your bike to your local shop” - good luck with that at the moment.
The bike shop I work at has a 24-48 hour turn around on service. If you need parts ordered to service then it might be a week or two out depending on the component. A basic inspection can be done the same day. The shop across the street from us won’t even look at your bike for about a month. Let alone service. So we’ve been told.
It’s same where I live. Basic service is about a month lead time at all 3 LBS near me. I had the misfortune of needing some serious repairs last summer and it took 3 months. My solution is to buy a “back up” bike. As soon as my wife lets me.
Right now it's summer and it's covid but still I think most bike shops can do a couple brake bleeds in less than a week. Maybe longer if doing new pads and rotors as well. Longer for complete tunes and more. Maybe even be 2-4 weeks out. This will obv vary from place to place so shop around if you need to.
My local bike shop is running balls to the wall, and still can't keep up. Not only the typical seasonal work, but also inexperienced riders crashing needing more help than just a tune up. The shop has booked time out three weeks, and the owner says they can't accept any more appointments past that for now. Plus he's got bikes taking up storage room waiting for parts...
So this year I got off my lazy ass, watched a few professional youtube videos, and tuned up my shifters and derailleur myself.
Is it as good as my local shop would do? No, but it's close enough for now.
I've got hydraulic discs on 5 of me bikes..........The only one that doesn't have them is my old road bike....Discs are way better in my view but, if you set up rim brakes well, they're bloody good.
Saying that, in the wet, discs are way better.....
I have discs on my gravel and CX bikes....as well as a 29er hardtail, 26er hardtail and a full suss trail bike.
I've had no problem burping or bleeding hydro brakes these past few years, although Shimano use mineral oil and SRAM use Dot fluid (which can eat your seals).....
If you get any rubbing, it's an easy job to get them aligned.....just release the two caliper bolts, hold down the brake lever, and then do the caliper bolts up again (5mm allen key).....this usually works for me...
I'm pretty sure sram use dot5.1 that will not eat seal or colour like dot 3 4 and 5.2
You're lucky the trick to align the brakes works. It never has on mine because the brake hose pulls the caliper which puts a twist on it. I do it by eye with white paper or a light under. Much easier on MTBs because of the larger gap between the pads and rotors.
I love disc brakes. Much better immediate stopping power, has saved me from car accidents.
So you were having lots of car accidents before them, right?
@@st939 are you daft? Have you ever tried an emergency stop in the wet with rim brakes? Then you will know what I'm talking about.
@@roebbiej I live in Switzerland, climbed (and went down) 58000 meters this year already on my rim brakes on carbon wheels, zero issues, sorry for your car crash problems.
@@st939 well, you have better equipment than I experienced i guess.. I'm happy that you've never had problems :)
^^This
I think the aero factor is mainly psychological.
A squirt of brake clean on the rotor every now and then is a good idea. Use Dot 5 silicone brake fluid. It keeps contamination out.
You forgot that wheels with rim brakes are often difficult to switch . I purchased a 3T Exploro, thinking I would easily swap wheels between road , gravel, and MtB wheel sets, but quickly discovered that the different wheels all have slightly different brake rotor offset , and require adjusting after switching.
Use shims to adjust the rotors to the same position. It takes a little time to get the adjusted the same but I can switch between wheels without any problems.
That is true, wheels with bolt disc is not the same as center lock. There are small diferences between Mavic and DT Swiss wheels.
@@mauricioguimaraes7849 that is my exact setup. Mavic 6-bolt that came with my bike and DT Swiss center lock on my deep wheelset
I don’t know if this has been asked before but can you get ceramic brakes for a bike? Some cars have them and I wondered if they have been trialed by anyone yet?
Ceramic brakes on cars (like Porsche) need a high brake temperature to work good, if they are cold they don't brake good.
Such brakes are made for race tracks, because they will get hot there and will have no fading like conventional disc brakes. In normal traffic you won't get in on temperature and in this case they are inferior to a standard brake.
You will probably never get a bicycle brake that hot, except on downhill tracks with downhill mountainbikes.
One point that you forgot to mention, is way up there as a pain in the arse - travelling with a disc brake bike…😤
Why tho?
Yes true, especially with these new integrated handlebar systems.
@@waynosfotos which are nothing to do with disc brakes
@@hanifschanel you need a tool to stick it into your brake pads if someone accidentally presses on the bike's brakes when your wheel is off. The reason for it is that disc breaks are typically hydraulic and the way it functions is when you compress on the brake levers, the oil pushes on a metal piece at the brake section and it pushes the brake pads into the rotor to brake. so when you remove the wheel, you remove the rotor as well. which mean that there is excessive space for the metal piece to travel. If you compress the brakes levers and the metal piece moves too far out, the whole things might pop out and all your brake fluid will leak or spill and you will need to refill and rebleed the system.
@@Syn741 which is exactly why you dont buy hydraulic disc brakes. Mechanic brakes do just fine.
I like how most of the solutions to the problems brought up in the video is "just bring it to a shop"
disc brakes also change the ride feel of your bike. add 200g to the left side of a 350g fork and you know you're going to feel that. way less nimble and asymmetric weight distrubution
Stop spreading lies and ride your bike
Haven’t noticed that myself between my disc and rim bikes….maybe I am more asymmetrical than that lol
@@chapmag6578 I got both the rim brake version and the disc brake version of the same bike. rim brake bikes feel more lively, definitely, maybe it's more noticeable if you switch back and forth, that 0.5kg weight difference is also felt, nobody is spreading any lies but the industry, the truth: if you keep riding alloy wheels disc brakes are absolutely unnecessary unless you prefer to ride in rain
@@1afterthep Carbon fiber rims are fine too for most uses.
@@jkk916 not for steep descents and t-crossings
" That that is is that that is not is not is that it it is "😎‼
If I was changing something about disc brakes (and as a layperson I have no idea how you would engineer it), but I would like the calipers to retract further, creating a larger gap between the pads and the rotor when not braking. Also some sort of self-bleeding system (again not an engineer and am making stuff up).
a larger gap also mean a longer time to break which also mean that the brake won't be as responsive. I don't think self bleeding breaks is possible. For any hydraulic components to be working accurately, it must be a closed system with no air bubbles/pockets in it. having a self bleeding breaks mean that that system itself has to be integrated into a closed system, which said system has to find a way to get rid of the air bubbles. also the smaller the component, the more critical it is to get rid of all air bubbles/pockets.
Like I said, just making up things - but if I was going to do the wider gap on the pads, 1st of all, I’d make the trade off today if it meant eliminating rub (so long as the brakes stopped the bike before the lever hit the bars)., but I also thought about if the brake levels pushed more fluid at the beginning of the throw, and then gradually pushed less fluid as the brakes engaged for better modulation - don’t know how that would be possible..
@@jeffkoontz2186 from the maintenance I've done on my bike, personally I think the pads are wide enough. initially I did had a tiny bit of brake rub, but it iron itself out in a week of constant use of the bike. But major rubbing is an issue, it's better to bring it to a bike shop, they'll know what to do about it. but once it's all set up, it's golden. What you mentioned is possible, but it would require electronics. from my understanding, the amount of fluid pushed through the hydraulic system is at a constant rate. X amount of distance on the levers move Y amount of distance on the brake pads depends on how they designed the lines. unless they go full electronic and increased weight, I don't think it's possible
Why do you need self bleeding. Bleeding is only required if it wasnt done correctly in the first place. Even after shortening hoses mine only required a top up and not a full bleed.
@@darrylguise8493 and you only do bleeding every what? 6-8 months depending on how you ride, and it's really easy to do for any competent bike mechanic
Rim for road, disc for dirt
Rim brake cartel represent.
I rode decades up and down steep roads in the SF Bay Area and even as a larger rider with well adjusted 600/Ultegra calipers I never felt I lacked stopping power or modulation. Rim brakes have tremendous mechanical advantage (think of a weight being applied to an end of a lever) that disks lack. About the only thing I'd worry about with rim brakes is rims over heating on long technical descents on a warm/hot day. I found compared to disks, rim brakes do require more frequent adjustments and resurfacing. Overall if I was in the market for a new road bike where I would't be exceeding 28mm tires, I'd actually prefer to stick with calipers.
I do like the Ultegra disks on my cross bike that I use exclusively on the road though. I rarely have to worry about adjusting them (replace resin pads 2x or so a year) and like the fact that they work the same no matter what the width of the tire I use. I've not done a brake bleed in the four years I've used the bike and the system still works as new. Probably is better in inclement conditions also--but I'm a dry weather rider. I had a Miyata touring bike in the '80s and it had these awful cantilever brakes that I never could get adjusted right no matter what I tried. Disks on that bike would had been a real game changer...
1) Disc brake rub 0:26
2) Choosing pads is a minefield 2:32
3) You need to bed in new brakes 3:34
4) Maintenance involves new skills 4:06
5) They can squeal 5:02
6) Rotors wear out eventually 5:50
7) Disc brakes add weight 6:16
8) Disc brake affect aerodynamics 6:55
it is allowed to upside down the bike? with removed both wheel to pack in the car,.. there is any issue of leaking fluid or failed on the hydrolic system ?
no, it's a closed system so upending the bike is fine. although some zealots will tell you you're not allowed to do that to *any* bike...
@@roadcc thx a lot for reply,.. im planning buy second hand discbrake buat outside city so gonna used car to load that bike (if the deal done)
@@roadcc maybe just make sure putting some coin or something to prevent pushed piston ?
or just get a spacer, they're pretty cheap
i fkn love my shimano deore 6120 4 piston disc brake set
Disc brakes also require a heavier fork to absorb the torque generated by braking, same with drum brakes.
That's nonsense. If you stop your bike within a certain distance, the torque on the fork is the same, no matter the type of brakes
@@peteralleyman1945 Then why do disc and drum brake bicycles have heavier forks then a comparable rim brake bicycle?
@@buckwylde7965
Do they?
I did a google search. What I could find is that stresses in the fork are higher in a disc brake system due to asymmetric loading and that the fork consequently needs to be stiffer. That doesn't necessarily equate to additional weight but leads to a little less comfort.
On the other hand rim brake wheels tend to be heavier to cope with the squeezing torque.
Apart from that: to me the whole bike weight thing is a bit of a hype. A copious meal or an additional bidon has more effect on the total weight than the braking system. And certainly on flat terrain a few kilograms more or less will hardly have any effect.
@@peteralleyman1945 Stiffer usally means heavier unless you put out more money. Drum brakes have a reaction arm fixed to the fork. If the fork bends under braking this can result in "brake steer" which can be bad. I don't worry about weight very much. I have fenders. bell, rack, bullet proof tires, etc,, a working bicycle
@@buckwylde7965
Smarter design, not necessary heavier. Certainly carbon technology enables local stiffness and stiffness in certain directions.
But at a price indeed, at least for carbon.
Rims wear out eventually with rim brakes. I've gone through five rims on various bikes in the past few years. Kind of expensive to replace. Labour costs mean an entire new wheel with hub is often cheaper than replacing old hub into New rim.
What’s disc I am hearing? Road CC disc-respecting disc breaks! I was just about to convert to disc because rim brake options are not much of a choice these days for high end road bike. Now you have changed my mind again #savetherimbreaks
Old news. What was the Rolling Stones song? "Yesterday's papers.”
Also not accurate. Specialized Tarmac SL7 is lighter and more aero than the previous rim brakes version.
Rim Brakes for ever. Just keep Riding.
Brake rub has never plagued me. But screaming brakes, oh the screaming.
I had some cantilever brakes I could get a good tune with but my friends disc brakes made my ears bleed I couldn't believe how loud they were!
Every time my discs get wet I can use the brakes as a truck horn. Little embarrassing sometimes…
You have to brake them dry after rain and prevent any oil contamination to the rotors, in this case squeezing will be little likely with resin pads.
Lots more trouble for only marginallly better braking. Another big foist by the bike industry?
Special pads, bleeding, brake pad cleaner, etc.
With rim brakes, you buy new pads, new cable, and spend your time riding.
I have bled my mtn bike brakes once in 12 years (last year). Never used brake pad cleaner, use isopropyl alcohol fairly rarely on the rotors . Brake pad change is pretty quick with a bit of practice.
Should do a video on removing a stripped bolt head........
get a screw extractor- basically a drill bit with a reversed spiral. you'll need to make a pilot hole in the center of the broken bolt to get the extractor started, as it drills in the bolt should start unscrewing out. you should stop with the drill then and just unscrew it out by hand
I have mechanical discs on one hybrid bike and hydraulic on the other one which is electric. Yes I know, but in my defence I am 72 now and live in an area packed with 20% climbs from river valleys. I have V brakes on my mountain bike. My hybrid weighs 22 lbs and the electric 49. I have been cycling semi seriously since I was 12 and was a member of the CTC many years ago, so I have had lots of rim braked bikes. I don't think that there is any comparison in stopping power between discs and V/rim brakes. The discs are miles better and progressive. I can't either discern much difference between mechanical and hydraulic except that the hydraulics have to stop 49 lbs and me, down very steep inclines. They don't fade at all. In the wet, they can be a life saver. You might as well whistle when trying to stop with rim brakes in very wet conditions. The only downside is that pads keep peeling off the backplates.
Posh carbon wheels? Aluminum rims with machined braking surface combined with a decent dual-pivot cable-operated brake were pretty damn good in most conditions, but once everyone and his brother owned 'em the industry "needed" to do something to drive sales of new bikes. What better way than something that makes whatever you had before suddenly and forever obsolete? Hydro disc brakes, once they jammed 'em down the pro peloton's throat far enough were the answer. Just like tubeless road tires, a solution in search of a problem, unless that problem was how to convince the punters to cough up the dough for a lot of new equipment. Brilliant!
I ride a 1997 steel Serotta Atlanta with rim brakes and 2 x 9 drivetrain. It has shallow depth Campagnolo Proton rims, it rides like a dream and stops excellently. I think the disc brakes, stiff frames, and deep rims are a devolution that I don't welcome. If it works for you, then you are riding on the right technology. So I won't tell you not to ride with disc brakes, stiff rims and carbon frames, but I don't envy anyone who does. I think that they will continue working the bugs out of disc brakes and they will surpass rim brakes, but I see too many drawbacks right now.
MTB-ers have been using them for years, and just get on with them....
Road disc aren't the same as MTB disc brakes
I've had both since the early years. Road discs have much smaller gaps between the pads and rotors, which causes a lot of the problems. I think it's because of the style of the levers being longer so there's less piston movement in the hoods, and the compact design with the shifter taking space as well.
Yes and that's like saying WRC is the same as F1... it's just cars?
They want a medal?
@@reginaldscot165 they are just cars lol
Are CAMPAGNOLO DIC BRAKES ANY GOOD?