Break-in your BRUSHED motor for MORE POWER! Veteran racers share their, tips, tricks, and experience
Vložit
- čas přidán 18. 07. 2022
- BloodlineRC covered a seminar, hosted at Pheasantland RC park. Barry Rosenberger and Jim McNabb went over the basics of RC Oval set-up. In this first video, Barry and Jim break-in a motor, discuss WHY and HOW to get the most power, HOW to maintain your motor, and HOW to check if it's still competitive.
This is long and we weren't able to get the best audio, BUT, this is good stuff and we want to share with everyone
#rc #rcracing #ovalrc #rctechs #traxxasslash
For those asking about the Power supply, it is a:
GOPHERT CPS-1610 II
Just what I've been looking for, thanks for posting.
Super! This has been great to watch, very informative!
Thank you for posting this.
"Come to the dark(brushless) side.’ I almost lose myself, kneel down and take the POWER. A group of jedi revived the belief of the FORCE.
I almost wish it were possible to go brushless. A lot less maintenance. But the popular classes are the brushed classes.
@@BloodlineRC Most people can't race or practice other than weekends, it's good to have something to do. And the amp number on the power supply give you the award. This tech brings fun indeed.
Thanks for the video. Very interesting and informative
Excellent episode as always!
Thank you!
Excellent video gentlemen thank you for all the RC. Educational information
Thank you! We are posting a few more videos with Barry and Jim on the channel, so be sure to check them out
I've learned a lot here, teacher. Taking notes.
I did this with all my motors in the mid 90s. Had that same Plano tool box too lol. I remember using those comm cleaning sticks that fit the brush guide.
Great tutorial/discussion. I see people asking about this a lot and this video will save others from having to repeat same discussion over and over hahah.
Lol. I wish. At our local tracks, this has ruffled some feathers.
great tutorial! very informative! especially for those of us who are visual learners. knowing my luck id somehow, someway ride the lightning breaking in my motor.
It’s just a little bit of a shock. I am doing (today!) a real basic break in using Jim’s techniques
good video, im gonna add something.... the "motor tuners" also check the internal resistance and or output voltage of each motor i think theres a 10 percent difference within each motor ( thats just manafacturing) so these guys test them all and keep the top 3-5 percent for team drivers or self and u get the rest. good video !!
Just subscribed thanks for the wealth of information
I've used an electric pencil eraser to polish carbon off the com. Another option, you can buy the white drafting erasers and cut them into "sticks" that can reach into the can too. then turn the shaft. Blow it out, spray it out and you're good.
But really quality information. Very knowledgeable
I haven't been around the stock Slash cars/engines much but I assume they are using bushings and not ball bearings and I do know that there was one other trick that a few of us faster guys did that really made a difference. I goofed up and showed that difference at one race and it almost cost me a motor due to a protest and teardown. But we ran four lap trophy dashes for the top four qualifiers out of the heats and were done just before the break to set up the main event orders and our track records were set by the fastest time in the dash. I was TQ in both modified and stock sprint cars and had to start back row in the dash because it was the only race we inverted the qualifying position. I went out and ran the stock dash won it with a new track record and with the same car, motor, and battery rolled back around for the mod dash as it was gonna be a car short as the next fastest car decided to skip the dash and give up a possible point if he won (wouldn't have helped a bit since this was the next to last race in a fourteen race season and I would end up winning all fourteen mains and thirteen of the trophy dashes, and all fourteen heats, in the one dash I clipped the front stretch wall and broke a transmission, I was the last guy still running a Cox car and had to scrounge a gear from my brother who wasn't racing his any more) but I put the same equipment I already had five laps on the battery on the grid and a few giggles were heard because I was still using the same stock class motor and a six cell battery and everyone else had modified motors and seven cell packs. I surprised everyone including me by leading every lap and set a new track record taking a full second off the previous one and it was faster than the one I had just set in the stock class with the same setup. I managed to talk myself out of the protest by saying I already had tires with heat in them and the car was lighter without the extra cell and the track had a little more bite because it was starting to get the slime cleaned off after it was watered before the dashes and since I was down on power that I could run the entire race without lifting and didn't have to swing out against the wall to get a better entry to the turns. It worked and the secret was still intact.
The speed tip was making a pretty thin slurry using simi-chrome silver and brass polish mixed with the motor cleaner we used (CRC Brake clean) and put a drop or two on each of the bushings and running the motor on two D cell batteries to get three volts to keep the speed and any chance of arcing from the brushes and would run it until the oil coming out on the shaft was a pretty dark grey or black then immerse the entire thing into a small glass of rubbing alcohol until it ran clear, this usually took around two or three dippings. If then blow it out real good and due the usual water dip for seating the brushes. This little trick polished the bronze oilites and also hardened them to help with drag and on a motor dyno or motors would match one with bearings or on occasion have better rpm. And no one in our crowd that wasn't running my stock motors would ever figure it out but I sure got accused of cheating a lot, I always said that they were sure I was cheating because they knew they were and I was beating them. But waaay back then you could get GE XP-60 batteries and they put out a full two and volts per cell when topped off with ten amps on the charger and would run about a minute and a half using a thirteen turn triple wind on a motor and I could use one for running a full eighty lap race with a stock motor. The trick was put them into a sleeve shrink wrap like the cheap packs came in.
love this! yes we can buy brushless these days but there is something about doing it the old way.
I am going to do this on a new Tamiya kit I have and see how much difference it makes.
Thank you so much for the info, I really appreciate it
Oh yeah. I have a video on water break-in using this technique. I’ve done that to my tt02 torque tuned motors. They don’t pull the numbers a 12t does, but it does alright with them. Usually I pull a 1.8 amp @ 3 v for a good torque tuned
@@BloodlineRC that is good to know thanks 👍
This is a great video I've needed to know for quite a while I'm an old time RC brushed motor guy we had polishers to polish the armature and the brushes three different compounds and the polisher basically was a pencil eraser but these were modified motors like Joel magic Johnson signature series from 1987 and Trinity monster horsepower 12 t double was the 1987 world champion motor.that moter was fast an 80.00 then_ back into it and back then it was 6 an 7 cell batteries Sony nickel cadmium 1700 milliamp something like that in RC 10 before the stealth trans with a plastic Sprint car body on it with a wing and foam tires which I still got all that stuff but we polished the crap out of the armatures to get the least amount of drag as possible because we wanted to get that battery life as long as we could and pull his most amp as we could. I was getting brand new batteries charging them up taking two car headlights and drain them as fast as you could charge them back up and did this 8 or 10 times to train the battery to get it to dump fast hand filing all the gears and the transmission so those absolutely no drag nowhere this little tricks but we were running on asphalt and it was about 11 or 12 of us together and here I was 19 and most of them were about 25 to 35 Back then we didn't have a speed controllers it was a servo with a wiper switch on a rheostat remember no reverse well now it's nickel metal hydrides and lipo 2s 3s . Well I have several new cars now but I have a Traxxas waterproof XL 5 esc, an XL 5 hv 3s speed controller brushed can I hook it to that old school monster horsepower Trinity motor which has 3 race nights on it or the magic Joel Johnson motor with these new style batteries an speed controller's what's going to happen to these Prestine moters need some advice...I love the hobby just get carried away from time to time I got four electric now brushless and two nitros I love all of them ..
Hey Bryan. Barry has been working a polishing kit for these sealed 12t motors. I’ve been trying it, just to keep the motors going. With the gearing, the heat, and the dirt, the motors do get burned up really fast. Maybe we can get a video of Barry showing his commutator cleaning system.
But, yep, I remember the old days of RC. I still have all of my old equipment from back in the 80’s. Once things settle down, I may do some videos on some of it.
Thanks!
Used to do this myself when racing silver can Tamiya class. Small bit of salt in the water, running it submerged for a bit. Blown out with a compressor after and then lubed with some light machine oil on the bushings. Certainly made a difference
Hi, does salt speed up the process? Does the salt rust metal parts?
@@human890209yang I think the salt water only causes rust as a result of being left in open air. Before that happens you can dry off the salt water off the motor and then oil the bushings and you’ll be good to go. Its the same as say driving your rc car at the beach. Soon as you’re done driving, take it home and give it a good clean before applying the oil to certain parts to ensure nothing gets rusted.
@@friktionrc yes but the salt was for conductivity to the commutator
Damn I just broke my motor in dry yesterday, but I didn’t really have a clue what I was doing or why. I’ll have to try clean it and try breaking it in again in water. I’ll remember this for future motors, great video, thank you.
Thanks! It never hurts to run the motor in water for a quick clean out. But, save the breaking-in for the next motor. As long as you are just bashing around, it should provide a good life span if you ran it slowly for its initial run-in
I race the mudboss.. just park your car next to the water, hook the new motor up and drop it into the water.
Run 1/4 throttle for 2-3 min. then put in clean water w a drop of dawn in it for 2-3 min... Then clean again.
blow out the motor with very light air and use the bushing oil ONLY!.. never anything else, and go race.
The idea from day one was/is to true the brushes to the com without causing arcing.
I bought a power supply a couple months ago and have broken in a few motors and it does make a big difference when you get a good one. The amp draw numbers is what I'm still trying to figure out. They were saying that what they had with 4.2 amps at 3 volts was very good. Wish they would have elaborated more on whats good and whats not and at what amp its time to retire it. I also use and have heard most guys that break them in and test them use a break in fan which adds more amp draw due to more resistance.
hey Cage! From the guys I’ve talked to, a 3.0-3.2 is a good motor. On my analyzer, that’s what I look for. A 4.# is stellar. But, I agree. Those numbers would be good to know. I will ask Jim if he would give us a follow up video to that.
As far as the fans, that was one of the questions. The dry break in. Jim and Barry are of the opinion water is better.
Since I bought an analyzer, I’ve tested some of the motors that Just seemed slow. Those are usually under 2.0.
@@BloodlineRC I only use the fan to test the motor after breaking in and after cleaning after the races. Not for a dry break in. I got the fan and a motor stand that holds the motor. The fan give some resistance and also help keep the motor cool when testing. I saw this on a video that Tim Moran did on facebook on how he cleans and tests his motors. Have also talked to others that do the same but I guess there is alot of different ways to do it and everyone has their own methods. I also agree with the guy in the video that the motor builders arent going to sell you their top motors. They will go to their sponsered drivers and everyone else will get their mediocre motors. Thats why I wanted to learn how to break them in. What type of analyzer did you get?
@@cage-rattler both of those guys are always fast. So, they do have results to back them up. Barry has been TQing and finishing strong at Ultimate this summer. And I have followed Jim more times than I’ve been in front of him 🤣
I've transformed LEMONS (e.g:- Duratrax Delphi Indy Car, Tamiya F104 version 1) into wine using 2 D-cell batteries & demineralized water break-in method with Reedy Radon, HPI Firebolt & (the best) LRP blue motor. All 15-turn 540's. Just use 3-in-one motor oil & CRC Lectra Clean. Apply Trinity Black Death comm drops at the end (1 tiny droplet @ each motor end) and let motor sit on its side at room temperature for 24hrs minimum. I swear, ONLY use comm drops once in your motors lifespan. They'll destroy it rapidly if used more. NEVER trust Fantom Go Go Juice (it's real name) or any CLEAR color comm drops. Look for black color comm drops in bags & on tables at meetups.
What size power supply should I buy? Would a 30v 6a be good enough or is something more like 10a preferred?
Why is the final test only at 3 volts when the volt of the battery are aroynd 8.4 volts.
Would you ever briefly run the motor in reverse, then switch back to forward while breaking in the motor in water? (to help form both edges of each of the commutator segments)
No. The problem with running it backwards it breaks the fine edge you created by breaking it in. Some of the big motor guys say you spinning out and going backwards breaks the edge.
So, you don't want the motor spinning backwards under ANY circumstance! Thanks for the answer.@@BloodlineRC
I want to know is can you do that with any motor and if I don't have a power supply that has that amp draw whatever can I use just the speed control and start it off from there
That is a great question and I asked Jim that this weekend. I worked with Jim to create a quick, let’s break-in a motor, so we can do it in a five minute video.
I will be posting that next week and I want to get another motor, to break in, without the power supply and see if we can get good results. Most of us, don’t have the budget now, or will ever buy a power supply that can do this. So, what can the budget racer do, to accomplish this.
The question will be covered, just give me a week or so to do a video on that for all of you.thanks
Many simply turn the throttle trim setting up to full & let the transmitter sit on table for no more than 45 minutes. That's those with 7.2 - 7.4 volt packs for power. These gentlemen on this video are the finest anywhere too at knowledge of this process (just don't mention superior Holmes Hobbies motors to them!)
How long does the break in process typically take?
I did a motor breaking with Jim. This took about 90 minutes! He told me, some brushes are just hard and take sensible to break-in. He said some only take 30 minutes.
Ok thanknyou for the information
What kinda power supply would you guys recommend ,
I’m using a Kungber power supply that I got off Amazon. That works well and doesn’t cut out from over heating. About $70 on Amazon
After the motor was broken in under the water, did they just spray the motor out with motor spray?
Yes. Just the normal electrical contact cleaner.
If you try it, let us know what your results are
If you have an air compressor, blow it out real good before using the electical cleaner and then oil the bushings at each end.
I bought a car used, can I pull the motor and do the water break in still?
At that point, it wouldn’t make any difference. The brushes are all ready ‘cut’ to the commutator and any wear/scoring wouldn’t really go away.
But, new motors are only $25!
How long does it normally take to break a motor in when in the water
After working with Jim on this and doing a few motors with him, expect about 45-60 minutes. And then a second run in clean water for another 30 minutes
@@BloodlineRC I'm no pro just a novice but I swear one time I just ran my RC upside down at about 75% for a full battery and then did it it in reverse at about 50% and the motor seemed faster than usual.
How can I make contact with these guys, I would like to speak with one of them about a few things?
Check out the BloodlineRC Facebook group. You can leave a question there and I will direct it to both Jim and Barry
I have a UCTRONICS U6229 80W DC buck-boost converter and stabilized power supply will that do the trick?
That looks really similar to my motor analyzer. I’ve been using that to break in my motors. It’s not as precise or offers the high amperage that Jim’s does. But it works. I run mine at 2v for 45 minutes and then clean and oil, then another 10 min @ 2v.
It works. But doesn’t give good feedback on when those brushes do break in and give the most power
I have mine set at 3v but it shows it running at .98-1.2v and the amps is showing around 4.86-4.92A and 4.64w I'm not sure what I'm looking for on it
Is this the same for Tamya motors?
Tamiya motors, same principals apply. They just show lower amp levels than the 12t titans. But, it all works the same
Where can I purchase that power supply you used? Thanks!
Jim is using the Gophert CPS-1610 II 0-16V 0-10A Compact DC power supply. Right now they have them on Banggood for $70
@@BloodlineRC what do you set it on to run the motor how many volts?
@@CarlosDelaoGunEngraver I set mine at 5 amps. Usually it will be voltage of .08-1.0
Your letting out all my secrets I've been doing for about ten or more years. Been racing since late 80's. Not much anyone can show me including what do w/gearbox. Son's street stock slash is constantly being chased. Rarely ever caught. Even when starting last. Motors I do are just has fast as the motor builders. Unless bad from start.
What’s the power supply you used to break in the motor?
It’s the kungber power supply. www.amazon.com/Kungber-Adjustable-Switching-Regulated-Adjustments/dp/B08DJ1FDXV/ref=sr_1_3?crid=197B8PUVIFM2W&keywords=kungber%2Bpower%2Bsupply&qid=1678452712&sprefix=kungber%2Caps%2C69&sr=8-3&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.18630bbb-fcbb-42f8-9767-857e17e03685&th=1
If the pasted link doesn’t work, Check out the description for links to all the products we used in the video.
Hello
They mentioned a website to add more info.
Just curious which one.
Lemme check
I think he may be referring to grangier as a place to get the comm stick
Oh ok thanks
@@BloodlineRC I’m having a hard time finding the comm sticks. Could you share a link or a good picture of what one looks like
@@davidwoolery1477 let me contact Barry and see if I can get contact info for you to get some. He did make them himself, so it’s a custom job. But he does sell them
Will Silicone oil or Synthetic 5w-10w motor oil work for bushings and bearings? So you’re breaking in the brushes,not the com,right?
I’ve been using a 0/20w synthetic. It is working pretty well. I know my partner sells branded bushing oil. If you want I can get your his contact
What power supply do you buy for this?
I’ll have that answer today.
Thank you
It is a GOPHERT CPS-1610 II
Ok thanks for the info
While this is an excellent break in video, I have to make a small correction, he said when asked about distilled water, water is water. That is not true, Distilled water cannot conduct electricity because it does not contain ions while rain water conducts electricity as it contains ions due presence of dissolved salts in it.
So distilled water would be better since it would create less chance of arcing?
@@BloodlineRC good question
So is it best to use plain water or distilled?
Distilled
What power supply were you using?
I tried this and after a couple of minutes my current draw dropped (less power) what happened?
You set the amps to 5, and the voltage dropped? Did it remain down during the entire break in?
@@BloodlineRC
Was just doing it to a 385 motor I had in a 1:12 car.
I put in water connected to a 7.4V through a multimeter. Was reading around 4.7A and did climb to around 4.8 so I thought it was working but then it suddenly dropped to 4.5 and then only got lower from there reading 4.3-4.4A.
@@druscanam so after break-in, the motor dropped from a high of 4.8 to 4.4a at 7.6v.
How long did the break-in last? Since I have not done any 385 series (the smallest being 540), I don’t have any numbers to compare.
It could be that motor has some really hard brushes and might need a bit longer than normal. I worked with Jim to break-in a 550 motor and had the same issue. It took almost an hour of break-in before we saw any rise in voltage. If the break-in is complete and it is worse than it started, I’d try one more run and vary the rpm’s slower than 7.6v.
Some guys are doing variable voltage break/ins to simulate the conditions the motor will run at. That’s something I’m going to cover later, as I’ve been talking to a lot of these motor tuners and getting more info about their techniques.
When checking the numbers, nothing was pressing against the shaft and that was free of any obstruction?
Also, none of the tabs were bent?
If you watch our weekly show, we are bringing Barry and Jim on. So this is a question I’m going to bring to Jim
@@BloodlineRC
It was just a couple of minutes. I deceived to stop doing it after that.
I tried to hold to motor up so the shaft wouldn't rub the bottom of the container although it didn't really make any difference. Also the motor could of been a little cooked. Not dirty but maybe worn magnets. Not really important, I've already replaced that motor with brushless. I really just wanted to do as a proof of concept.
I've done water break ins before but never whilst hooking them up to a multimeter to measure current draw like I would when adjusting timing.
Honestly I'm not too fussed about the motor
@@druscanam ah. Ok. That makes sense. Yeah, once the motor is fried, not much can be done.
You can reset the brushes after it’s had done runs. But once the magnets and commutator are shot, that motor is done
Need the name of that power supply . Need one asap
I’ll talk to those guys this Saturday and get that for you 👍🏼
It is a GOPHERT CPS-1610 II
What voltage and amp power supply is required to do this?
If you don’t mind me self-referencing, check out our other video. How it's Won! Breaking in your Brushed motor for more power, Brushed Motor Tech part 1
czcams.com/video/ekRkDZfD9sw/video.html
33:04 I don't understand why Amp value go down and Voltage value goes up. Voltage goes up because the Amp is limited by the power supply at 5A or 10A, the motor's Power goes up during break-in, amps can't go up further more so voltage goes up. But if Voltage goes up, why does Amps goes down? it should stay to be the max Amp of the power supply. I guess this is a flaw of the power supply, when Amp is saturated, the supply is not stable, the Voltage value can't be trusted. I bought a 15V25A power supply after watch this video. I set the Voltage to control the motor RPM and only let the Amp change to tell me the status. I never set the Voltage too high to saturate the Amp, which I think is more reliable and more accurate. More Amp let you set a higher Voltage which means a higher RPM and faster break-in process. My motor is not Titan 12T. I go 1.5V for 6min, 3.0V for 6min, 4.5V for 6min, 5.0V(my Amp is far from saturated) for 6min. Change water and wash the motor at 3.0V for 1min. If the Amp is growing slow, you need a higher RPM cause the touching area between the commutator and the brush is largerer. You should dig faster with a higher RPM which means a higher voltage should be set on the power supply.
So you are doing a gradual break-in process? I do have another video, where Jim and I break-in one motor. I wanted a short,
@@BloodlineRC Cool!
@@BloodlineRC Did you ever post that shorter video? I can't seem to find it and it'll be easier to digest for the younger folks or just people with short attention spans.
@@glavos7536 ya know. That’s priority for next week. I’ve been practicing and experimenting breaking in motors using their method. I think I’m confident enough to put one out that will have solid info. That’s what the thing was before. I’d film one, figure something out afterwards. But I think i have decent method now
@@BloodlineRC Sounds great! lookijg forward to it.
I have heard of people using kerosene to break in motors. Has anyone heard the same?
I can’t recall ever hearing that. Alcohol I’ve heard, or simple green. I don’t think using kerosene would be a good idea for a break-in. Even alcohol. Something stronger than water, I can see why you may try that for a used motor with a dirty commutator. But, new motors, we are just trying to keep cool and carry away the particles from the brush break-in. There isn’t any tough to remove carbon build up on the commutator yet. Plus, kerosene ignites very easily. Alcohol is risky, and I stay away from that. Kerosene would just be a big no from me. Alls it takes is a little bit of arcing and you have a jar full of fire.
'
my R/C traxxases models uses 550 motors...
R/C tonka truck use 2 kyosho 540 motors...
R/C kyosho bliizzard use 2 kyosho 380 motors'
R/C models tamiyas uses 540 motors
When Running a Stock Race with a HANDOUT Motor and you have NO BREAKIN Time, other than Oiling it, what is your Best Advise to get the most out of that Motor??
A couple questions.
Are these new motors or used?
Can you use something like Comm Drops?
If it’s new, I’d plan on getting there early and do a break-in. You don’t need to practice with the motor, just race it. While practicing, dump it into some water.
If you don’t have time to break it in and it’s new, try some Comm drops for a little power boost at the start.
If it’s used. Get some comm sticks and clean the heck out of that commutator. Use electric clean, dump it in some water for a quick clean.
In these races. It’s really important to have good batteries too.
The Handout Motors were Brand New! They are given Last minute before racing without Breakin time just oiling it before starting. After rd 1 hand it back in and redraw for someone elses Motor for rd 2
@@FranBushardt ah. I’d pick up some of those comm drops and try those. They say they give a nice boost at first.
With the motor, by round 2, do whatever you can to keep the comm clean. It sounds like it will be tough.
It sounds like you really need a good battery pack. I have a lot of luck with the trinity Mudboss pack (if it’s 50c only). Those always make my car a little quicker.
@@BloodlineRC this handout race was a few weeks ago! The motor is Now broke in!
@@FranBushardt ah. You could try to re-break it in and clean the commutator. That’s about it. Check to see how the voltage and Amps are. They say the biggest issues running a motor that wasn’t broke in, it just doesn’t last.
Thanks. I wasted so many motors
This video makes me realize how obsolete brushed tech really is.
Or...buy a brushless motor for even more power like everyone else.
You can’t for this class of spec racing. Plus all of us have tried 13.5 hobbystock brushless, the 12t brushed eats their lunch. Though the brushless does stay more consistent over 50 laps.
I liked the vid. And subscribed before even listening to anything, i knew this is worth it 💪🏼🫶🏼🫶🏼👍🏻
Thanks! Check out our follow up video on brushed motor break in