5 Rules you didn't know you didn't know for Flames of War
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- čas přidán 21. 07. 2024
- Jon talks Flames of War and the 5 rules you might not know.
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Today in the FoW facebook page, someone posted a rules question about the woods/concealment scenario and I thought, "Ha! I know this one thanks to AMGaS!"
I did not know that one about the cover from woods, or the one about being in command at the end of the movement phase. Very intersting.
About #3 capturing objective, everything you said about capturing the objective is correct except the part about having Hetzer staying withing 4in of the objective after "shooting off" the Sherman tanks. The condition for capturing the objective says like attacker wins if it starts within 4in of the objective and ends the turn with no enemy teams contesting the objective. Therefore, Hetzers can move more than 4in from the objective (driving around sherman to get side shots) and succesfully destroyed/bailed all sherman tanks and capture the objective as long as they started within 4in of the objective at the start of their turn. The condition to capture objective does not mention capturing team (Hetzers) need to stay on the objective at the end. The only condition "at the end" of the turn is having no enemy team(s) to contest the objective.
If Hetzers moved more than 4in. from the objective and failed to destroy/bail all Sherman tanks, then it would had to restart the whole process again.
That's correct! (.... and thank you - I was about to point out the same thing, and is so good the effort is not needed anymore:) ).
Best idea for a video ever! You hit the big five missed rules right on the head. 👍
One note though: when a unit leader issues a mine clearing order, the unit leader does so instead of moving (preventing the unit leader from moving along with the teams that cleared the minefield). All other teams in the unit may still move as you stated. 🍻
Pg. 112 Clearing a Minefield “A Unit leader that is not Pinned Down may issue a Mine Clearing Order as a Movement Order instead of Moving in the Movement Step.”
That is a really good point! Thanks for the catch!
@@AllMiniaturesGreatandSmall of course after a successful Morale check in order to get rid of the Pinned down token (received after unsuccessful roll for passing near the minefield token the previous turn).
Not sure if rule #1 is laid out correctly by you. Yes you are in command until the end of the next movement step. But the rules for Last Stand read that you count any teams in 6"/15cm arround the command tank and not that you need to be in command. And as Last Stand check is done prior to any movement it isn´t possible to get back in that distance before you need check.
edit: mixed up TY V1 with TY V2/FoW V4. So it seems you are correct. That is a very subtle rule that is eas to miss.
Pretty good explanations of some rules I see people have problems with often.
Just some added thoughts / clarifications to an excellent video.
Well done on the in command rule. This one definitely trips a lot of people up. Only thing you didn't mention is it also needs to be in LOS and not just command range.
There is no more attaching HQ units outside of the assault phase move to contact. One case you didn't mention is that the attacker can chose not to splash hits and place all hits on the HQ. The downside to this is one mistaken target roll would swap all hits to a new eligible team.
You only have to bail tanks contesting objectives not kill them to claim the objective. Also the teams that started on the objective don't need to be the ones to claim it at the end of your turn.
Woods and LOS: Being long term players, we missed this in my area till several of us learned this at 2020's masters. They also don't block LOS and only limit it to 6" (similar to smoke) unlike previous editions.
You mentioned that you don't get pinned by taking a hit moving into the minefield until after the unit finishes it's movement (so you can move more teams in / through). What didn't get mentioned is that you need to not be pinned to clear the minefields.
Really helpful. The tree concealment and the calculation of when you're classed in/out of command caught me out.
Great video as always, informative to boot!
Thanks for this vid. Definitely clears things up on these rules.
thank you😆
Great video, thank you for sharing.
Thanks. Very helpful.
Regarding the woods and the fact that the rule is a rule because it isn't mentioned - I think that is one of the biggest hurdles v3 players had (have?) moving to v4. Rules were dropped without being explicitly called out, making it very easy to incorrectly play the old way.
Very true, It still remember V3 rules all the time.
Does the rule #1 apply to Team Yankee as well? A quote from the FAQ: "My unit had three tanks at the end of my last Movement Step and they were all In Command. My opponent shot two of them, leaving just one alive. Are the two Destroyed tanks still In Command? Do they stop me from needing to take a Morale test?
They aren’t In Command, they’re dead! The unit only has one tank In Command, so needs to take a Morale test."
In the mentioned example there of course were three tanks in command, and after enemy turn there's only one, but would I be rolling right away on the start of my next turn?
Or, say, out of three tanks in command one is destroyed, one bailed. I don't succeed in my remount, so I don't have two active tanks anymore. Am I rolling to see if they break right away? Or will they be determined to be out of command at the end of my movement phase and then I have one more change to remount at the start of my next turn?
I can't seem to wrap my head around this, but it's quite an essential rule. Appreciate the input.
Nice video. It would be useful to add to the description the specific page numbers associated with your explanations.
For all those whos asking for a citation on rule number one it is NOT in the book so don't waste your time. What he's referring too is the lessons from the front FAQ march 2023 it is essentially totally bonified amendments to the book.
It reads:
Q: If a team ended its movement so that it was in command at the end of the movement step, does it remain in command until its next movement step?
A: Yes. In command is defined by its position at the end of the movement step.
BF, please add this youtube video to your V4 rulebooks inmediatly. As soon as you can. /clap /clap
Great👍 And I think it also applies for Team Yankee?
Nice to say those 5 rules, I try to find that situation of "in Command" of your first rules.... I can't find it in the rulebook, If you are looking the the help sheet at the end of rulebook where it say in movement step you may choose to stay in place or move toward the unit. you are missing first at the starting of your turn you need to do last stand to any unit that is not in command, when all the starting step is done, then you go to movement and if you are not in command you stay where you are or move toward the unit leader. I mention the minefield but it was mention in previoius comments from others so I just remove the part in my comment... 2 out of 5 innacurate rules explanations... overall not a bad video... it could be a good series to watch with the appropriate rules explanation and reference
And I think that's why the in command rule is so confusing. In the Starting Step you are checking to see if you units are "in good Spirits" And to be in good spirits you count the tanks that are in command. The only time in the rules that a Tank goes from being in command to being out of command is in the movement step. Even on the Last Stand rule( p 81) it refers to p41 for the "In command rule" No other place in the rules does it say a unit's command status changes except on P41. I'm not necessarily a fan of the rule but the way I presented it is correct. You can also check out this facebook post on this rule for more details and maybe a better explanation then I gave. facebook.com/groups/FlamesOfWarGame/posts/6041738532567477/
@@AllMiniaturesGreatandSmall Thank you kindly for your input and reference. I appreciate.
No problem and thanks for the rules check. I always appreciate it and know I get things wrong.
For all those whos asking for a citation on rule number one it is NOT in the book so don't waste your time. What he's referring too is the lessons from the front FAQ march 2023 it is essentially totally bonified amendments to the book.
It reads:
Q: If a team ended its movement so that it was in command at the end of the movement step, does it remain in command until its next movement step?
A: Yes. In command is defined by its position at the end of the movement step.
So how does the objective contesting rule interact with stuff like "flame tank" or "flame trailer"? Theoretically they can't "hold" objectives. But if I start my turn with my Crocodiles within 4 inches of the objective and end the turn with full platoon of infantry sitting on that objective, do I hold it and win? Conversely - if flamers can't hold an objective, can they still contest it in defense?
The Flame Trailer rule says that they can't hold objectives. So in your example you would not be holding the objective at the start of your turn so you couldn't win that turn. At least that's how I would interpret those rules interactions.
@@AllMiniaturesGreatandSmall That would make sense because in "holding an objective" the wording doesn't actually require the "attacker" to have units on the objective at the end of turn. It just requires no enemy team to be present.
So the question remains - can flamers prevent opponent from holding an objective?
Lyle, is that you??
I am still a rather new player, but I've never encountered minefields before in a scenario.
One important addition to shooting at HQ units
The attacking player decides which platoon wil join the HQ unit when you shoot at the commander, but the owning player decides which tank to mistaken target to from the HQ tank, This target Can be from any team Of same type within 6”/15cm
So even though the sherman platoon is taken as an aditional target. A hit on the HQ tank csn be moved by a succesfull mistaken target, to any tank team within reach (such as a jeep or other unimportant target)
Regarding your Wood consealment or not…
I am not sure you are correct
If you are entirely inside the Wood you get consealment but if your team has part Of it outside the Woods (or fields) you do not get consealment
Woods however do Block Line Of sight through then, so hiding behind the Wood and partly exposing the tank Will give cover
You are right Helge, but Line of Sight through Tall Terrain is only blocked if it is more than 2" through the terrain (Rules p.52). So you may need to measure it.
The presenter is correct. Woods only provide cover if you are in them.
@@owenmcgarel6547 Yes, but you can't shoot at something if you have no line of sight, and woods can block line of sight. See page 52 of the rules. So although a team may be outside a wood, and therefore not in cover, the shooter may still be unable to shoot at them.
@@paulbeach8181 that depends from which angle you look at model, if you are right in front there is no cover.
@@owenmcgarel6547 if you are behind woods they provide concealment.
All good except that you missed the key step for the minefields. The unit was pinned in your scenario, they cannot remove minefields unless they first unpinned. Thanks for your work Jon, nice.
Good point!