FrankenArmor 3: The Brimmed Bascinet
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- čas přidán 30. 07. 2024
- The brimmed bascinet is one of the most curious, but frustrating pieces of surviving armor. It raises more questions than it answers, and should be used with extreme caution (if at all) if you plan to build a similar helmet.
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Hi guys! Happy October and welcome back to the FrankenArmor series. Upon review of the video in its first form (now removed) I was unhappy with the completeness of my explanations I realized immediately after seeing the comments that my explanations and position were too ambiguous and open to misinterpretation (more than I was comfortable with). I wanted to make the video a little more clear, so here it is again. Please forgive me for the cumbersome uploading today!
To restate a couple of requests: Have you considered starting a Discord server? Pursuing the Knightly Arts has.
And: Please consider making a video about how medieval people viewed ancient and earlier people and technology. I have seen very little and undetailed analysis of the subject before, and I'd very very interested in hearing about it. It'd give a lot of insight into how people thought.
+Van Ivanov, forgive my ignorance, but what would be the purpose of a discord server?
Another comparison would be a much simpler and more advanced IRC chat. It's just a very convenient way to socialize.
Well, if all the cool guys have upgraded to burgonets but you can't afford one, then a man's got to do what a man's got to do and convert grand daddy's old bascinet...
Not that they didn't do that with sallets, by the way.
Holy crap, they actually did and it doesn't even look bad...
We quite often fall into the trap of assuming that everyone was equipped with the most cutting edge armour or lived in a castle or city with top of the line defenses and therefore disregard the wide variety of reality.
I mean we do have modern high powered, low maintenance and unbelievably efficient cars availabe yet there are still more people left proudly driving a Lada...
Would you be able to give me an example of a converted sallet? I can't say for sure if I've seen any like that before and it sounds very interesting to me.
@Joe Becker Yeah, mine...
My theory:
A guy in late 16th century europe saw his mates with nice shining brimmed helmets. He was poor but he wanted one aswell. Next day he went home, grabbed his great great grandfathers helmet...or maybe he bought a very cheap one on the market...he went to a blacksmith and had his own brimmed helmet made.
Thats a very pretty theory somehow :D
Its a nice thought.
Honestly, the first thing that came to my mind when I saw the photo was the Gold Cloaks from Game of Thrones. Perhaps this helmet is what inspired those helmets.
today was the first day i've been to a hema club... it was fucking awesome
Niiiice... Netjes Willem
Great, now I have to redo my comment. "Brimmed Bascinet? Can you BasciNOT? Heheh... Still going strong. Looking forward to round 4." There, I hope my dedication to my mission is appreciated.
I couldn't find your comment on the first video, what was it?
Damn I laughed at the Bascinot too hard
It is a problematic piece, but I think you handled it very well.
One more detail: why does the brim have only one rivet and four empty rivet-holes? How could the rivets have gone missing (if they were there in the first place)? There is no obvious mechanical damage to the piece as far as I can see. And the one rivet with such an inexpertly smashed head?
Be that as it may, the problem seems unsolvable, even by archaeometrics. Unless the brim proves to be made of rolled sheet metal (impossible to judge from photos). Even if it is a 19th century forgery, it will be impossible to tell even with the help of metallographic analysis. 19th c puddled iron is indistinguishable from the medieval iron produced via solid reduction process in its microstructure. Bessemer might have invented his converter in about 1850 and homogenous steel did became increasingly available from that point, but the sad truth is, that puddled iron was still commonly available material until the WWI. Maybe not in US, but certainly in Europe.
I wonder if was converted into a costume piece, either for stage or for passion plays.
That is what my gut feeling was. If it was a style for someone to recognize as someone being ancient then it could have been a prop for an ancient-themed costume
I doubt it. Prop making being what it is, I doubt they would have gone to the trouble/expense of getting a functional steel brim made and riveted.
There is a helmet in the Met NY which was a high grade bascinet - high fluted skull, shallow sides, etched(?) and gilt coronet decoration into and around the skull - which someone has taken a cold chisel to and cut two very rough squared off 'eye holes' into the edge of the face opening so it could be worn much lower on the head, probably to 'modernize' it for re-use.
As always, great video.
Keep up the good work, Ian.
Ian, you're awesome. Thank you.
I cant wait till the next video!, I have been waiting for this for a while, I learnt so much about medieval thanks to you! Your awesome! P.S. Cant wait till franken armour 4!
Looks to me like a bubba-ed helmet. Some guy probably pulled that helmet out of an old armoury and modified it to match the style of a burgonet or kettle helm or other later open faced helmets. Like how today people slap synthetic stocks and 30-round mags on SKS rifles to make them competitive with AR-15s.
GenericFakeName god those SKS abominations always make me mad
XxXFaZe_Articuno_XxX Same
Hey, my Brown Bess musket NEEDS a quad rail, suppressor, Cerakote job, and collapsing polymer stock!
I don't see any particular reason why SKS can't be tuned for ease of use. After all, it can very well be produced even to this day and is certainly offered as new. Moreover, most of this guns are not ceremonial or collection grade, but cheap hunting or even military rifles - in both cases I find restocking quite an obvious decision, and it is certainly done even in conflict zones like Eastern Ukraine.
F1ghteR _ yeah but it's supposed to be an SKS not some ersatz AR or AK like people try to modify them to be
I'm really looking forward to that video over over on PursuingTheKnightlyArts. I've seen some pictures, and I must say that the new additions to your harness are really nice looking!
Ian, this is just my opinion, but as an armourer, and having messed around with spitzhelm burgonets from the first half of the 16th century, I'd actually put money on that modification having been done in Nuremberg around that time as a 'quick' spitzhelm. They were not as overly concerned as we are about it's age or value at the time. The shape of the brim says a lot, and given that it does not correspond with being Victorian, then this is the best guess I can provide. I don't actually think anyone will ever truly know.
This is very likely the case. Shortly after I made this video Dr. Capwell reached out to me and said that this particular piece along with many other atypical pieces in the Musee de Valere collection can be explained by a local peasant's rebellion that occurred in the 16th or early 17th century (he didn't have the sources immediately to hand) where the local armory was known to have been raided and this 'old' bascinet was likely pressed back into service and updated as a burgonet.
@@KnyghtErrant Oh, this makes much more sense. I had doubts as to whether a major armory would throw something together like that to send out the door, but a local armory with the materials they have at hand would have been much more apt to do it in the middle of a rebellion. I think the pieces are falling together on this one.
Could the shape of all’antica burgonets and earlier representations be a misinterpretation of Classical Greek art depicting Corinthian helms pulled up above the face (like the bust of Pericles)?
Most likely yes because that was also how early Roman and Macedonian helmets were just pulled Corinthian Helmets.
Great video!
Basing of the iconography, the french reenactor Christopher Mézier call it "Berruyer" (in "Les 5 chapitres, encyclopédie de la défense corporelle au Moyen-Âge"), and precise that some of them can worn a little brim. It's mostly italian and french, but as at you says, it's could be easily confonded with a sallet (for XV) or a bascinet (for XIVe). But it's very different that the helmet worn in bohurt today.
Thanks for explaining the historical doubt about this helmet and greetings from France!
One thing that strikes me about this piece is that the modification cannot have been done either by the original armorer, or by a competent contemporary armorer to the person who made it in the first place because of how clumsily the brim was attached. It is almost certainly a much later addition to the helmet. If I had to guess, your presumption that it was done some time (possibly several hundred years) after the original helmet was made when visored helmets were popular is when I would guess that it was actually modified. However, if the original visor had been lost at some point in time, anytime after that is when the modification could have been made, including possibly BEFORE visored helmets were popular.
3:30 That brim really isn't well fitted at all. My gut feeling is that this is a Victorian hodge-podge of older pieces.
They probably weren't able to sell the brim on it's own, so they threw it onto a bascinet and some collector bought it because it was unique.
That's what my gut tells me. The brim looks like it was hastily polished to try and match the skull as well.
"Bro you good?"
"No..."
The brim kinda looks like a gorget. Like someone had a helmet and a gorget and just decided to rivet them together.
You're the most academic and the least goofy of all. Thumbs up.
The first thing that came into my mind when I saw this video was another of your videos where you show how to modify things on your armour when they do not work or do not work for you. So even the first owner might have said: "I really hate this chainstuff in my face and from above the rain comes in and yesterday someone was hitting me and I almost died, if only I had a brim on my bascinet - well, maybe the smith can improvise something for me quickly, because the war is not over ..." The second thougt was a common soldier who found the helmet on the battlefield and had it modified for his own purpose ... How nice, that there is no strong evidence, that allows us to speculate and think of possible stories behind the dead object. :-)
Form 14th- 15th century the swiss won a lot of battles against ,Knight armies'. They captured a lot of armours. So a lot of horsemans armour was changed for footmen use for the famous Swiss pikemen.
My first thought would be that it's most likely a typical bascinet that possibly would have been recovered from a battlefield or storage.
Missing it's original visor or just cheaply readied for reuse sounds the most plausible, and as implied probably is as well.
I really hope we get a helmet video about the burgonet, there isn’t enough love for it
Yooooooooooo
Bascinet with -no- brim!
Well those were 3 long weeks. Worth the wait though.
It kinda looks like how I would have had my bascinet made if I wanted it brimmed in the 14th century,
Me: Oi, blacksmith!
Bs: Oi!
Me: Last battle one of the guys had a bascinet with some wind screen!
Bs: And?
Me: And it was *super cool,* so I want you to put one on my bascinet!!
Bs: B-but your bascinet is not configured for a brimm... (O.o)
Me: Stfu I'm the one making the order!
Bs: I'll see what I can do... (-_-)
Lol you reminded me Griswald from diablo 1 in tristram. *"Oi! What can I do for ya"* =)
Caramel Johnson wut
I call BS, by which I mean I'll call my blacksmith to have this made for me.
Here is an interesting fact for you. Metals of a different hardness will form a patina at a different rate. I do metalworking and refinishing as a gunsmith and one type of bluing is a patina style that is then further processed. The harder steel will retain an almost silvery bare metal look in some cases while after the exact same age or process a softer steel will look as if it were years older. Im not saying this to dispute the evidence presented here as I agree with the reasoning presented but be aware that on two separate pieces patina isn't always an indication of age unless you are reasonably sure that the two pieces are metallurgically similar.
Someone tried to modify it with mismatched pieces in the 16th century, realized it looked dumb and flimsy, then left it unfinished ?
Just a question: why we tend to belive in those pictures as a justification of peaked helmets exsistance? On most of the pictures, there is no details to decide, but on some that you showed you can clearly see, that there is only 2 rivets at the very end of this metal plates, which can indicate that theese are opened flat visors (like on late italian basscinets, or hungarian bascinets). Visors were common at the time, and flat visors always connected with "common knights", because theese were cheaper (as I saw, on the pictures, you shawn, there were no kings, bannerlords or oher "high class" knights in theese helmets). The other point is during the time buorgonet was used, the weapons of the battlefield was quite different from the late 14th/early 15th century's armament (when originally this kind of bascinet shape was used). I'm not sure if this peaked bascinet was used in real combat, the owner could survive, because against the weapons of late 14 to mid 15 century this is a weak point and if this part deforms under pressure, you can lost most of the vision in your helmet which means serious chance of death on the battlefield. (I've done full contact, where most of the guys used this kind of helmets, and deformation of the peak was one of the biggest nd most continous problem). Why to use helmets like this, when production of this is not much easier than a visored bascinet so the price must be the same, but it is not so safe as the visored ones?
I must say, it's not an offense, and I love this channel.
All good points. Ignoring the Musee de Valere piece, I tend to believe there was at least some sort of light helmet that had a peak on it during the late 14th / early 15th century, but not on otherwise normal bascinets with aventails. Perhaps it was short lived for the reasons you state. I also have no doubt that some of the art is simply showing a raised visor. My issue with the way this style of helmet is reproduced in the modern sport combat market is that it doesn't really represent any of the different examples in artwork, but rather combines elements of different helmets and a bit of wishful thinking to create some sort of hybrid that exists only in the modern re-enactment and heavy combat world. The _only_ object that comes close to mimicking the modern version of this helmet is the Scion bascinet (if you ignore a lot of the subtle details) and that's very problematic given its questionable history.
Shortly after I made this video Dr. Capwell actually reached out to me and said that that particular piece along with many others in the Musee de Valere can be explained by a local peasant's rebellion that occurred in the 16th or 17th century (he didn't have the sources immediately to hand) where the armory was raided and a bascinet pressed back into service and _updated_ as a burgonet.
Thanks for the quick answer. I can agree with you (and also Dr Capwell of course) as this helmet could be modified in the 16th or 17th century. I also have to say that I did included my full contact memories in my thoughts only for repersenting that this style of peaked helmet is not the best choice against weapons of late 14 c. os early 15 c. I know that modern full contact armors made by following different directives from the authentical battlefield armors (we can see theese differences between contemporary medieval jousting armors).
My pleasure. Yes, I can see a heavy pollaxe head coming down on a brim and suddenly your helmet is a huge liability in the thick of the fighting. You might even have to discard it depending on how immediate the danger is, a scary thought. Placing the armor in the greater context of the landscape of weapons and style of warfare it would have encountered is hugely important like you've done. A lot of people skip that step :)
"Because of this helmet's kind of unique and curious nature it's a very popular helmet amongst reenactors".
That doesn't make a lot of sense from a reenactment point of view… If a very uncommon or even unique thing is portrayed as common, the whole reenactment concept is kinda ruined.
Yes, that is very true, but try to tell that to re-enactors... All kidding aside, a phenomenon that plagues a lot of re-enactment groups who, putting it politely, have priorities that may not be grounded in historical accuracy, chasing silly outliers is not uncommon. Here are my thoughts on the portrayal of the 'typical' which I think is essential for good living history - knyghterrant.com/index.php/2016/07/10/there-is-value-in-the-typical/
Ive seen helmets like this in my dreams
maybe it feels better to be on guard duty without getting water in your eyes
Question: Do you plan making a video about burgonets?
I would like to yes, but I would prefer to have a high quality burgonet reproduction to show for a video like that. I'm always trying to see what I can borrow :)
The facial l armor may have been damaged but to keep using the helmet cut it away and make it into a brimmed helmet I wouldn't doubt it soldiers will keep using equipment that protects them until it has absolutely no use left field expedited repairs are usually ugly but work and there's also consideration that over long marches dumping as much weight as possible and still being usable could result in a loss of advisor and any additional chainmail
Could this have been a 17th century recycled retrofit for say a pikeman?
Before George Lucas popularized kitbashing, we had medieval kitbashes.
Am I the only one who thinks the helmet from the Getty MS looks an awful lot like a Stahlhelm, specifically a WWI variant? The forms are very similar, though the back brim of the helmet here sits a bit lower than the WWI Stahlhelm.
I also find it curious that the brim lacks any rivets for the other rivet holes in it, implying that this brim was perhaps taken from another helmet rather than being purpose made to modify the Bascinet. The curvature of the brim is inconsistent with most Zischagge type helmets, as those sorts of brims are almost always either flat or with a very shallow curvature to them. Burgonets began falling out of use in the early 17th century, so if this was in fact a historical modification, I feel it would have likely been during the 16th century.
After I made this video I had a conversation with Dr. Capwell about this piece. The most likely historical event with sufficient evidence to explain this curious helmet (and several other pieces in the Musee de Valere collection) is a peasant's rebellion that took place in the vicinity during the Renaissance (16th or 17th century, he couldn't recall off hand). The castle armory was raided and several pieces of old outdated equipment were pressed back into service, this bascinet likely among them. It was probably 'updated' into a burgonet at that time with the addition of the brim, probably pulled from another burgonet that was either damaged or unfit for some reason.
Knyght Errant Very fascinating theory! I suppose it would definitely make sense, given the turbulent situation France was in around that time period. Kinda reminds me of how the peasants during the early parts of the French Revolution stormed armouries and made use of very outdated arms during their own rebellion.
The styling of the brim is so 16th century-ish that it's extremely unlikely to be a 14th century experiment. What are the chances that an experimental kind of helmet, barely invented, so rare that there is no surviving example and only few depiction in art, would have got the brim just like it would be two centuries later, when it was mainstream and well honed?
Also, as ugly as the whole helmet may be, we see the brim is "right", in the sense that it's conform to what burgonet's brim were. I don't believe your average blacksmith would have much occasion to have seen a burgonet close enough to have it right. I doubt there were so much spare brims laying around, to be slapped on outdated helmets by village blacksmiths for improvised soldiers. So it's not the crude work of a village blacksmith.
The brim is munition grade, but still the work of a professional helmet maker (or his apprentice, but you get the idea). But it's been slapped on there crudely, and that doesn't seem to be the work of a professional helmet maker. Plus if it was part of a large order for a city armory on budget or something, why even bother putting it together? I mean the bascinet itself offers good protection, the brim really doesn't add much, it's merely a stylistic update.
The whole thing doesn't make much sense in the 16th century. I would tend to say it's a 19th century creation, from original parts.
I agree with your line of thinking. The brim also looks hastily polished like whoever put it on the bascinet tried to make the old munitions grade burgonet or pot helmet brim he had lying around (probably not valuable enough on its own) to match the bascinet and try to make something _unique_ for the collector market.
10:04 early experimental sallet or "chelata?"
What he say and what helmet is it. Also examples?
_Celata_ is the Italian word we start to see pop up in written sources to describe what will eventually be a sallet.
@@KnyghtErrant from the images on Google looks like a a more open faced barbute mixed with a sallet.
So this is the proto-sallet / barbute?
I like it
Any interest in doing FrankenWeapons too?
It could easily be a castoff piece that ended up causing a commotion.
There are too many problems with the piece from an aesthetic (in the context of the late 14th century) and construction standpoint to so easily be explained as a 14th century cast-off unfortunately. The brim matches no known examples in art, written accounts, or is comparable to any surviving contemporary examples and it doesn't match the design aesthetic or construction methods for the time period and region to which the skull of the helmet belongs to or the time period shortly thereafter. At the same time the brim is _strikingly_ matched to late 16th / 17th century burgonet brims, way more so than should be the result of pure coincidence. The idea of a brim in the 14th century isn't the problem, they appear in art on different types of helmets, the problem is _that particular_ brim is not representative of the types of brims from the 14th century, but is a dead on match for the 16th century and later.
After I made this video I had a conversation with Dr. Capwell about this piece. The most likely historical event with sufficient evidence to explain this curious helmet (and several other pieces in the Musee de Valere collection) is a peasant's rebellion that took place in the vicinity during the Renaissance (16th or 17th century, he couldn't recall off hand). The castle armory was raided and several pieces of old outdated equipment were pressed back into service, this bascinet likely among them. It was probably 'updated' into a burgonet at that time with the addition of the brim.
I wonder what the chances are that the brim was added by the second or third hand owner. Some mildly or even severely outdated equipment is always going to be present in a martial setting, and that equipment is often modified under the pretext of modernization or to make the item more suitable for its new user, but often the real purpose is to give the second or third hand owner a better sense of ownership over the piece. Or it could be a case of someone buying the common and fashionable thing when they are young and want to impress in the "path of least resistance" way that is common for teens and 20-somethings, but later in life, when they are of a more thoughtful age, personality and experience influence the owner to modify the piece. A good example is Matt Easton's backsword with extra hand protection added after the initial construction of the sword.
One of the problems faced by this particular piece of equipment is that stylistically, the bascinet and the brim are separated by 150 - 200 years on for when the two elements are individually at their most typical. That would make it more like a 6th, 7th or 8th etc., hand owner, which starts to make that scenario much less likely. Another thing to consider is that for a man of means, it would be very atypical for them to stop caring about their status, and armor was one of the biggest outward displays of that. Armor was something that got replaced to keep up with trends by those who could afford it. We would want evidence to support the likelihood of either scenario. For people of lesser status, there are always up-to-date but modest armors available to them at far cheaper prices than the fashionable stuff. So yes, older stuff does remain in use to a point, but it tends to get exaggerated.
That's a lot of helpful info that really changes my perspective on this.
the question is when Bubba lived then.
given that steel is made of a combination of Iron and Carbon, isn't it possible to see the Carbon 14 like scientists do with fossils to try to date both pieces? maybe it will give a difference of X centuries between them, which pretty much would answer when it was modified
To the best of my knowledge, radiocarbon dating only works with organic materials.
No, you cannot carbon-date steel. This might be helpful: boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=93874
thank you
How do we know the Brim was not added later by the owner?
If you mean in the late 14th century, we can be pretty confident that this wasn't the case because it matches no known examples in art, in written accounts, or among surviving contemporary examples and it doesn't match the design aesthetic or construction methods for the time period and region to which the skull of the helmet belongs. At the same time it is strikingly matched to late 16th / 17th century burgonet brims, way more so than should be the result of pure coincidence. It was added later, just a LOT later.
After I made this video I had a conversation with Dr. Capwell about this piece. The most likely historical event that explains it (and several other pieces in the Musee de Valere collection) is a peasant's rebellion that took place in the vincinty during the Renaissance (16th or 17th century, he couldn't recall off hand). The castle armory was raided and several pieces of old outdated equipment were pressed back into service, this bascinet likely among them. It was probably 'updated' into a burgonet at that time with the addition of the brim.
Thats what i thought it was some 1500s addon to the Bascinet for some poor sod.
Given the evidence and what we know about armor dealers and collectors especially in the late 19th / early 20th century, I still think the most likely scenario is someone obtained a bascinet, and already had a bunch of worthless visors from 16th/17th century burgonets lying around (they're not uncommon) and decided made something _interesting_ out of them to command a higher price on the secondary market.
Yee they where really messing up stuff during those times with all romance and sheisse
May be it was an archer who wandet a bit more prodection
What about a common soldier in the early-mid 1400's who was originally using a regular bascinet, possibly passed down from his father, saw other soldiers with purpose made visored bascinets while on campain and was like "i quite like that", and asked the field blacksmith to rip the aventail off and nail a visor to the brow the day before the siege started? would've been cheaper than buying a whole new helmet
The story you have come up with to explain it is not entirely wrong based upon the evidence we do have, but it's likely the addition was much much later than the early-mid 1400s. The brim matches no known examples in art, written accounts, or is comparable to any surviving contemporary examples and it doesn't match the design aesthetic or construction methods for the time period and region to which the skull of the helmet belongs to or the time period shortly thereafter. At the same time the brim is strikingly matched to late 16th / 17th century burgonet brims, way more so than should be the result of pure coincidence. It was added later, just a LOT later.
After I made this video I had a conversation with Dr. Capwell about this piece. The most likely historical event with sufficient evidence to explain this curious helmet (and several other pieces in the Musee de Valere collection) is a peasant's rebellion that took place in the vicinity during the Renaissance (16th or 17th century, he couldn't recall off hand). The castle armory was raided and several pieces of old outdated equipment were pressed back into service, this bascinet likely among them. It was probably 'updated' into a burgonet at that time with the addition of the brim.
@@KnyghtErrant that's a much more interesting backstory than mine....I know your specialty is high medieval armor, but I'd love to see you cover some renaissance period armors. Regardless of period, keep up the excellent work
Always thought the hooha about this helmet was silly. Pretty obvious how it got it's "new" bill. "Hey Vlad you lost your helmet... here use my great grand pa's. Field modification at it's very best/worst :)
7:38 Well, you see, herein lies the problem with all'antica: we cannot really be sure, what are the inspirations for it.
For example, this fresco depicts clearly Byzantine pauldrons on the right and centre figures, yet the warrior on the left has a typical Western XIVth century plate arm harness over Byzantine-style gilded maille. The rightmost figure is depicted in the XIVth century Byzantine helm, kettle hats can be attributed equally well to contemporary fashion of both Western Europe and Byzantine states, and than we have these weird brimmed bascinets that can be either an artistic invention or an unknown type of helmet.
So, we can suggest with equal confidence that this style of brimmed helmet is indeed contemporary Italian, or a classicistic anachronism, or some sort of Byzantine proto-zischägge. Given the Oriental origin of the latter type of helm and known use of Mongol and even Chinese helmets by the Byzantine militaries in the XIIIth and XIVth centuries (e.g. fresco in St John Chrisostomos church, Geraki, Lakonia), this is quite possible, especially if one would look at another region in close contact with the Orient - Russia, where peaked helmets were known at least in the XVth century.
Moreover, I'm in doubt about the degree of familiarity of general fourteenth century public with seventh century or earlier Roman art. It seems to me quite implausible that not only Spinello Aretino (who is very notable for depicting such style of helm), but other artists of the time would choose a reference point so remote from what could be seen or heard of by broad public.
PS Thanks for the video, it's a really broad outlook. Well done!
PPS Also, thanks for all your work on this channel, really great source of conviniently presented knowledge!
It is a BASEBALL Bascinet.
The armorer intern probably made it xD
Those old timers even invented retro! Leave some inventions for the rest of us.
maybe it was added by a guard, who hates rain in the face? ;)
What about just for the sun? I mean sun glare must be a real thing...
11:07 :0
Bascinet no brim
Switzerland (which didn't even exist in those times) was never a metal/metalwork producing country and like everyone else all around very poor. Saving as much metal as possible was very common up until the middle 20th century here in Switzerland...
because metal- and metalwork was very expensive and everything metal was therefore saved, adapted and reused/repurposed until endless, or when it rusted into dust....
In my village here I could show you barn doors where old scythes are repurposed as hinges, broken off steel fingers from machines or old electric fence insulators are still commonly used as a locking bars on shed doorlatches. Nails would be straightened out and reused over and over again, some old people still do it out of tradition, even today where nobody thinks about the price of a new box of nails...
Metal candyboxes and cans were (are) used for screws and small stuff...
All this sounds like crazy weird oldfashioned, but is still present to this day, some things I even still do:)
The brim is poorly cut, misaligned and the surface finish is subpar with what looks like file or angle grinder marks when compared to the helmet. No armor smith would spend all that effort polishing the helmet just to botch the brim. Looks like jerry rigged retofit, maybe the visor was lost and he could not afford a replacement?
One thing: If you are talking abour the 19th century in central europe especially the german speaking parts, don't call it "victorian". That is a british term. Call it "romantic", like in music.
218 likes and 0 dislikes? What witchery is this!?
It's not witchery, it's Knight Errant! (TM)
What is the point of adding that to an original bascinet?
It just brings the value down and makes the thing more ugly. I just do not understand why people do this kind of shit and it makes me angry!
After I made this video I had a conversation with Dr. Capwell about this piece. The most likely historical event that explains it is a peasant's rebellion that took place during the Renaissance (16th or 17th century, he couldn't recall off hand). The castle armory was raided and several pieces of old outdated equipment were pressed back into service. This piece was 'updated' into a burgonet at that time with the addition of the brim. There are a few other pieces of equipment at the same Museum that bare similar 'updates.'
Knyght Errant I thought you were saying that the brim was added in the Victorian period.
I was saying that no one is sure exactly when the brim was added. The possibilities were that it was added during the original working life of the helmet in the late 14th century (the most unlikely), that it was a 16th century 'update,' or that it was an enterprising Victorian (as they were known to do things like this). I was leaning toward the latter when I first made the video, but since then Dr. Capwell has suggested that it's the middle option which is the one most supported by the evidence.
Knyght Errant
Ah,
Thanks so much.
My pleasure. Sorry for the initial confusion. To answer your original question though, even if it wasn't done in this particular case, what would happen a lot was that collectors wanted _complete_ objects, so sometimes less-than-honest dealers would take components from different objects (or make components, read: forgery) and reshape them to fit each other so they could sell something more complete at a higher price than selling each component individually or incomplete.
3rd place where's my prize?