SOFT GROUT Problem...Is THIS the SOLUTION???
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- čas přidán 16. 09. 2020
- We have tested the most popular hight performance grouts for hardness and abrasion resistance when wet. We have found that Customs Prism Grout, TEC Power Grout, Laticrete Permacolor Select Grout, Ardex FL Grout, and Mapei Ultracolor FA Grout all came up far short of our expectations. All of them, when scrubbed with a nylon brush or a cloth towel, started to come off very easily. This could be a problem over time from routine cleaning in a shower or other wet area.
One of the manufacturers listed here has come up with a solution to the soft grout. They provided us, at no charge, a liquid solution to apply to the already cured grout. Watch the video here for more information and to see if it might work for you.
To see the original testing video, click the link below:
• WHICH GROUT IS BEST???...
I hope that you find this video educational, entertaining, and inspirational. If you do, make sure to hit the like button and click the subscribe bar. When you subscribe, make sure to hit the little bell next to it to turn you notifications on and set them to receive "all CZcams notifications". That insures you will be notified when I upload a new video, usually every Thursday and sometimes more.
You can find me on instagram @tilecoach, and be sure to leave your comments, questions, or concerns in the section below.
Last but not least---I love you and I love being your TileCoach. And we'll see you on the next video. - Zábava
I like how you try to show us the truth and a solution to a problem instead of trying to sell us garbage like most youtubers do. Keep up the good work!
I'm glad someone is finally testing these products for all the public to see!
Great help for the novice doing home projects! Thanks for being there.
Isaac you're such a positive inspirational motivator and your videos are awesome, keep up the good work! God bless!
Isaac, it might be helpful to see what a regular sealer does. That way we can understand if there’s additional benefit to using sealer + hardener.
Absolutely useful info for Me!25 years tiling Learning and adapting daily.Thanks man.
This is great that professionals are taking time to do this experiments. That tells me that you guys really take pride on the work you do and strive for better results. I respect and admire that
not many professionals do this. that's why Isaac is a superstar!
Just wanted to say Thank You! I’ve watched many of your videos and I can tell you really try hard to do the best job possible! I’m also a General Contractor (licensed in WA and AZ) I certainly don’t specialize in tile but I enjoy doing when the timing/project allows. Your videos help me to manage my jobs better. Again Thank you for your great content!! 😊
Isaac, appreciate the tests - nobody else seems to bother checking to see if the manufacturer's hype/marketing matches reality (or if it's just something achieved in narrowly-crafted test scenarios). Interested in Spectralock testing results. Sal really seemed to like it.
Good for you to continually encourage people to join the trade (or any trade). One of the best carpenters (and nicest guys) I ever met was a convicted murderer who served a lot of years in San Quentin. He was so well-liked and respected, he was the jobsite steward for the union - a real gentleman - if he could turn his life around so succesfully, so can others.
Your videos are great. I have been in construction for about 50 years now and I am a master electrician but I have built houses and done just about everything there is to do with building a house. I get a lot out of your videos. One thing I would like to see is a test using tile and stone and grout sealers. I watched your video on the best grout and it helped me decide which grout to use on my River Stone shower floor. I was going to use Fusion Pro but I seen your video where you used Fusion Pro for shower floor and it turned out bad after 4 or 5 years. Keep putting our your videos because they help.
your most eye opening video so far
I haven't been in "that place" for a long time. I still pull over, and dumpster dive for buckets, and other treasures. Nice work man.
Keep em coming. thank you so much
Your videos were recommended to me because I was looking at 24 x 48 tiles because we are thinking about putting them down throughout our retirement home. At least now I will know if my contractor knows what he is doing! 😜 My contractor just happens to be my son!
Want to do tub to shower conversion in Rochester, NY...we need more people like you in this area..!!
Very useful video thank you Isaac ..!!!!!!!.
I am glad I watched your grout vids. I just finished a 12 X 24 porcelain show stall and bathroom floor. Now the customer is a professional cleaning lady and I know she will be scrubbing her grout and probably using some kind of bleach. I hope I can solve the problems you showed so she does not go crazy on me....customer is always right....right?
Thanks guys!
I used Fusion premixed grout once because a customer requested me to.Big mistake it turned to a chalky consistency within a year total fail. Thanks for your great videos! You are looking kinda happy in your picture.
Fusion is garbage
Good video series, Very enlightening. Can you try those grout additives like Grout Boost and alike?
30 years as a general half of which was kitchen & bath remodeling and never had a call back!!!! Fixed a few other bad contractor jobs though!!! I must admit that I've done most of the work myself or watched to make sure the subs don't cut corners! I am one of the few I am sure!! We are rare!
Thanks for your answer man :) I do love your videos Peace
Thanks for making this video. Used kerabond on floor and it set over time like it should. It is hard as a rock. Prism was SO easy to apply and had great light coloration. Rehydrating helped the areas i grouted LAST. First strokes of grout still powder slightly but do not crumble and are not friable. Just makes me worry as they're not traditionally hard. I'd be afraid to take a scrubber to them
I absolutely love your videos. I've been a tile setter for 30 years. I remember the days when there were basically 3 sanded grout colors to choose from. Gray, Sandstone, and White. I called these grouts "quarry grout", and they cured very very hard like a concrete sidewalk. In fact, after the grout was dry, the more it got wet, the harder it became. I've also noticed that the grout these days are much softer. I wonder if by adding in all the polymers, acrylics, stain blockers, etc that these companies put into the bagged grout nowadays, has made it softer. I'm just a tile setter, not a chemist....so I honestly don't know.
Thank you,
Mid-West Tile & Marble Co
I have 20yo grout in my bathroom and it's exactly as you described, hard as sidewalk cement, also looks as good as when first installed.
@@es9438 I guess they don't make things like they used to. I'm glad your grout is durable and holding up so well !!
@@markbrowning8412 as I'm getting older in life I find myself increasingly weary of "New and Improved"... I recently bought some Lye (used since Roman times) for certain cleaning tasks....the old-timers knew to keep it simple and not fix which was not broke :)
@@es9438 I agree. Very well said and true
New here ,I too am tile setter , I used to do granite .I had to sort of change jobs.its a courier that you can work alone .and sometimes we make ok coin.thanks for your words of encouragement. My self I am still biding low because well just where I am at. Anyways I recently had a problem with the ultra color mapai ,I had the speed set black and it set up on me in about 25 minutes it stained my off white tile.it stained everything, I have to buy new margins trowel and float because they are pure black now .but you guys showed me that ,ultra color is the best. I am going to find out if my supplier has a similar non speed set.and continue to use it .thanks alot for your help.
Hey man really appreciate the words at the end. I've always struggled to one, trust myself and my abilities enough to charge what I'm worth. But also now that I do, I got bills to pay so its a hard balance to bid to guarantee you land the job, but also not rip yourself off completely! I'm finally getting there though I feel like, and your videos have helped immensely! I almost used prism grout on my last shower! Thank god I didn't, I would have felt horrible. I ended up going with the Fusion premixed stuff from Depot, hopefully that isn't as soft! I haven't seen you test that yet I don't think. It was nice to work with though, once I got the working time dialed in. Really nice to just be done after you wipe with microfiber, rather than wiping 100 times and coming back 2 hours later with a cheesecloth etc. And then sealing 3 days later. Anyways, love your videos and all the tests. Appreciate the leg work you do. Finally subscribed after watching like 100 videos lol derp
After watching your videos and they are great and very informative the only solution that I can see if you’re in the business would be to tell the customer ahead of time that all grout can be damaged with Abrasive scrubbing. May be looking for a cleaning solution to share would be better than a hardening solution.Just a thought because I don’t do tile LOL
Love the tests. Will you do mapei flex color or epoxy grout tests.
I want to see you try Mapei's flexcolor CQ premixed. Since the color is in the sand and not a pigment, I think it would excel in this area. It would be an interesting comparison.
@tilecoach I made a comment on your last video talking about using an acrylic additive when mixing vs using water. I have lots of different water around me from city to well to iron to sulfur water. I have used many different grouts but standard tec with the add mix has performed best for me. By using the additive I get consistent results. Give it a try. Thanks for the videos. As professionals we can always learn from each other. I look forward to your thoughts.
I always wondered about how water quality or water difference would effect grout or concrete products in general. I know if you mix with warm water it sets up faster. Which is weird since they claim its a chemical drying process not a heat drying process
I had pretty good luck adding liquid bonding acrylic to Ultracolor FA. Looking forward to Spectralock One test....also try the Ardex WA too please.
At one of my old jobs we would add water stop to the grout to make it hard and dry fast so the restaurants (mostly chick-fil-a) could be up and running in the morning. And it would be rock hard and best believe the very first thing the workers would do when they get there is mop and throw buckets of water all over the floor. That’s within two hours of the grout drying and it would mostly never come up or bleed
That is one thing I’ve noticed when applying sealers & hardener to grout, is that it will discolor the tile (I was even told by manufacturers on some products to keep the product away/off the tile & just apply to the grout.....can be a pain to do, must say😉).
Ppl are probably thinking why are [we] concerned & testing the hardness of grout....but hey, customers do clean & scrub their grout when cleaning the bathroom; & to have the grout start coming out, can freak a client out.
Cheers
I used a grout with an epoxy additive for an outdoor table for a buddy about a dozen years ago, and though it was quite a bit more expensive, it set up like mad.
We all know the guy who claims to never have a call back....he is also a disgrace to the tile community and king of misinformation. Great video as usual Isaac!
Waiting for a fireplace tiling video from you guys......I'd like to see brick faces or slate since it is super uneven and regular tile.
All that Tec hardner is is a concrete hardener additive acrylic mix. It would work better if you use it as part of your water, BUT will make the color darker, almost like a wet look. So you may want to do a test with a lighter color, and that might work.
I used epoxy grout in my beginning days in bathrooms,now I used mapie premixed nonporous grout for the last couple of years never had issues with my grout jobs
This is interesting I've never had a call back for soft grout I've had grout issues with discolored joints and things like that sucks grout is so touchy anymore I remember back in the day with regular sanded grout you could do no wrong no matter how it was mixed or over washed it was always fine now days even regular sanded grout is a hit and a miss probably because things are made so cheaply anymore would be my guess
Cool. More stabila pls
You're awesome.
NO...some sealers are penetrating and they absolutely do harden as they bond the material. great testing with the grouts and hardener. Today we are doing almost all non-sanded, 1/16, 1/32" , and color is key.
The spectra lock 1 is a pretty good product but I've noticed if you do your wipes with a too wet sponge it will stay soft for a couple of days, but once it has dried out it's solid.
I think one thing that could help avoid the issue with the customers scrubbing is using a sealer. I'm a big believer is using sealer to protect the grout, i haven't seen you talk about it much but i feel that it would help a lot in preventing dirty grout joints, which in turn, should not cause customers to feel like they need to clean it every other month.
Also, i would imagine a lot of customers are probably using the wrong cleaners for grout cleaning and that could cause issues in itself. So i think it's important to educate our customers on the proper ways to do these things after a job is complete, or maybe even offer that you clean it for them every year or something. Small side note: Using a steamer is probably the best/safest way to clean dirty grout joints.
Love your videos man, come down to Texas if things in LA get crazy lol. I'd work for you in a heart beat!
He said earlier that a sealer didn't work.
Really interested in your Spectralock test. When can we expect to see that one? thx!!
Looks to me that you have two problems, one softness of the material aggravated by permeability . I think that bonding agent could help both by bonding particles tighter and making grout less permeable and less soft by consequence. I would love to see you try that
i also like the acrylic sealers on my concrete jobs
Been watching the videos and this was mostly what I was looking for. This product looks mostly like Seal-Krete Original which is a sealer that works on many things. It does harden grout and seal it. Tested it myself on issues and it has worked. Used it on a base of a shower as a test where the installer screwed through the Oatey drain and the pan leaked. Used the Seal-Krete original and it stopped the leak of the water seeping through the screws that went through the drain. Thoughts?
what about adding some type of liquid admixes instead of water any trials or comments? Love these
Had an issue with Tec Power grout once and they offered to send me some of that product, but I ended up just removing all the grout and re-grouting. The failure was partly due to the tile being beveled brick (water from my sponge was channeling in to the joints and over hydrating during the origonal grout job) and partly due to Tec changing the ratio and not clearly labeling the bags. The tech support person even admitted that the only people having issues were the "professionals" who were used to mixing it previously and not reading the bags every time. Interesting point about the grout shield weakening the Prism, I have had a suspicion and stopped using it. Thanks for doing these videos!
Also, when estimating potential client cleaning methods, I have to go with the standard (for almost all of my clients) of a bi-weekly house cleaner who might use a brush lightly or perhaps just a scrubby sponge. The client who only cleans once a month, or perhaps even less frequently is probably going to be scrubbing a lot harder and then removing more grout.....
So what grout did you use to redo the job and did it perform better?
@@absentmallets1738 used power grout both times. After talking to the tech support and learning that their mix instructions had been changed on the bag, I nervously gave it a second try. Because the mixing instructions on the bag give you the water amount for the entire bag, I ended up getting out a small scale and weighing all of my water and grout as I mixed smaller amounts at a time. It held up well, and I continued to use power grout on a couple of other jobs after that. About a year ago the stores I was getting power grout from went out of business so I haven't been using it since.
@@justinofboulder Thanks for the info. I'm surprised you gave it another chance after all that. I installed mine using the scale and methods you mentioned and still got washing out. I read others accounts of applying the acrylic fixer as shown above but the accounts all seemed to have that wash out too over a short time so, I'm gonna redo it soon but after watching these excellent grout videos I may shell out for the Spectralock. Pretty sad state of affairs.
You should try out mapei premixed grout after watching your video I figured I would try some new stuff I have never used and it was amazing zero haze 1 wipe and clean, very consistent color and very hard
I tried thin-set mortar mix on custom blend grout for a shower . The grout looks a bit darker but it dries up like a rock 818tile
Im not installer, but a cleaner. I fix grout and tiles for my clients. I use pro select from sika latex into grout mix rather than priming it. Home depot has them.
Cement hardeners and densifiers have be used Portland cement products for years.
Can you simply use this or other acrylic concrete fortifiers as the replacement for water when mixing the bag of grout ?
Hello I am a tile installer in San Diego , I noticed you havent tested Miracle's Grout Additive Sealer I have try all these so called better grouts but our go to sealer is the grout additive from Miricle,
Thanks for this video. I have a new house and all the grout in my ensuite shower is able to be wiped out with just my finger when wet, home builder is trying to say that, that’s normal. I disagreed.
Another product that you could try is concrete densifier i make concrete countertops and i densify my concrete after demoulding and it helps to lock the pores of the concrete its a great product and very easy to apply could possibly help you with any cement product you use. The name of the product i use is called liqui-hard from w.r. meadows.
Question for you. I did a tiled shower. Recently i have noticed on occasion where my floor tile meets glass mosiac accent tile, the grout stays damp " looking" in small areas roughly 2". I do squeege the shower after every use. Any ideas? I just grinded out grout. I applied new grout. Shower is only 2 years old
I've wondered if the grout problem is because the grout dries out before it fully cures. Maybe do a few samples with a damp rag and a layer of vapor barrier on top for a few days. May be too unpractical for a shower, but may be worth exploring.
I was wondering what the result would be if you test any of those grouts mixed with bonding agent and then compare the result with the first test
Have you used the kbrs tile basins? If so how well do they hold up?
Thanks a lot.. I used ultracolor and it scraped out with my fingernail.. scared me
Please do this test on Mapei- flexcolor cq
i did a job and used epoxy grout on a job,seemed to work good,what do you think
Use the hardener in as you mix the grout, and remove some water. It's the same acrylic that is used as primer for mortar, and as far as I know it can be used on all materials. If you buy the uncolored ones, you can use it as an additive in mortar and grout without discoloration, and the mortar ( and probably grout) will be easier to work with.
I agree with you. I have noticed that when I use acrylic admix with the grout, it dries harder. The bag of grout says to use water only, but I've done it with pure admix and no water before. It worked just fine with no color blotching and dried hard as concrete. Down side is you have to mix small amounts at a time and work quickly.
What’s your favorite grout sealer for shower walls, and bathroom floor, and how often should you reseal them?
Once a year
Here's a question, how stain resistant are each of these grouts? If the grout has not stained, then there'd be no reason to scrub it. I'd really like to see if Spectralock 1 and other "high performance" grouts resist stains.
Coach, do you have any videos on backer board installation? Mostly what do where the meets the shower pan. Gap? No gap? If gap what should a person do at that gap.
Leave a gap....maybe an inch. This will help keep water from wicking up your underlay. Durock and Wonder Board won't fail if it gets wet, but who want moisture getting behind the tile with no way for it to evaporate.
What is usual in my hood is that folks steam clean the grout lines with a domestic appliance designed fir simple cleaning around kitchens and bsthrooms . Wonder how the hardener would behave with a steam clean, cleaning fluid and a toothbrush which is what I use at home
That seems acceptable with the hardener, in general grout is supposed to be removable unless it's an epoxy. So I guess if you always want epoxy like performance use epoxy grout.
Epoxy grout demo please
We have soft grout in our entire 2400 square foot home, which is a new construction. The builder is now suggesting to try a topical epoxy hardener. I'm confused, as I don't know what this product is or if it's the right application over soft grout. Also, the only epoxy products I see relating to grout are actual epoxy grout itself. Any professional opinion here is greatly appreciated. Thanks!
I recently had a bathroom remodel and Simple Grout was used. This grout is 10 days post application and is not hard but kind of rubbery or spongy. For emample if you press your pinky finger into a grout line with some force it will indent then reform to its original shape. Is this normal? Could the installer have mis- used this product causing it to not dry/cure properly? I am quite worried. It was an expensive remodel and the contractors are not very helpful with questions or critiques.
If there is lime in the grout soap should cause it to harden the soap reacts with the lime and turns it back to limestone.-
Something for you to experiment with this is used when walls are plastered with sand and lime after they are plastered
they are brushed with soap and water to make the surface hard
What was the result with Prism? I wanted to see is if helped at all with the Worst of the Worst!
One or two pumps of West System epoxy mixed in with the grout will solve your problem. But you would need some chemical to remove it from the surface of the tile.
Idk if you have A German product but i have used DAST WITH HARDNER MIX AND I THINK ITS VERY STRONG GROUT
what are the requirements of grout in the US, here in the Netherlands we have norms for it , like CG1 for standard resistance and CG2 for extra resistance . If there is a W after de 1 or 2 its water tight ( for 99,9%) can somebody explain how this translate to grout from the US? thanx
I wonder how 501 sealer would work. Try it!
I don't recall if it was instead of water or added to it.
So they only offer it on warranty claims,so does that mean they know they have some bad batches of grout?
no test with hydroment vivid in the original video?
Have you ever heard of Anti-Hydro? It can be used as a grout or mortar additive, a bonding agent (new mortar to concrete) and as a grout or concrete hardener when applied after cement has cured. It re-activates the cement. For example many years ago in Phoenix I did a counter with Talavera soft red body tile. It was grouted with old style Customs sanded grout that ended up soft because it dried so fast. You could scratch the grout with a fingernail. I sponged on the Anti-Hydro thoroughly and the next day it was rock hard. It's not available here on Maui but is at masonry supply stores on the mainland. Do some research , it's some amazing stuff and a little bit goes a long way. It's a clear liquid that comes in gallons and doesn't cost that much.
Antihydro works amazing on soft grout. I use quartz lock grout on my showers its an awesome urethane grout.
I used two year old BAL powder (uk) grout and after 5 days it’s still powdery as my fingernail leaves a mark in it...does that mean it won’t be waterproof is the fact I’ve used out of date grout the issue ?
I like using epoxy grouting (mapei kerapoxy) for custom showers.
I'm getting ready to grout 1200 feet of quarry tile with kerapoxy any tips to make it easier I've never used it
@@MrCk1234567890 haha obviously I'm talking about technical help not obvious things 🤙
@@codyrobison6817 hot water.
When cleaning. As hot as you can tolerate.
@@skulijakobsson5116 have you ever tried the EG formula I've heard really good things about it when using epoxy I'm probably going to try that too check it out online
How about getting a squeegee on floor tile so the solution can soak more into the tile instead of a cloth that’s going to suck up most of the solution
Why all the grout scraping LOL, my shower floors look the same as new after years, what are folks putting in their showers? I feel like I need to go brush mine but to what end?
Do you have issues using black grout ?
Can I use this on mapei grout ? Will it change the color
I use ultracolor plus f4 in my countertop of my kitchen but the day after the grouting is powdery when I touch it. I applied grout sealer (miracle) but still when I run my finger through it there’s a powdery residue that comes off, what else I can do? Thank I really enjoy your videos.
I have the same issue. I used Mapei Ultracolor Plus FA for a bathroom… how did you resolve this?
the real fix is to switch back to the old style 100% portland cement grout of old, or use epoxy grout. The grout manufacturers tried to tackle a problem and it had unintended side effects. That problem was the issue of Portland Cement grouts leeching colors and effervescing so customers would be dissapointed as colors faded, or got yellow etc. So these new high performance grouts were invented, and they DO work well for what they wanted. Not to leech colors and fade nearly as much, and wouldn't effervesce on the client. Downside, they're soft when wet with all of the added polymers and add ins they've used. It's sadly a trade off for these regular grouts. Fine denough for standard flooring, but for a shower I wouldn't use them. I would strictly use epoxy grout
I have to say I have been using mapei ultracolor FA and prism and I'm not having these problems. I follow the technical specs especially for mixing small batches. For instance mapei ultracolor FA is 3 parts powder to 1 part water for small batches. I also had been curious as to how this grout would harden especially after bad experiences with fusion grout. I can honestly say it's been super rock hard. I've called my last 7 jobs after seeing this video. So far I've gotten to inspect 5 and no soft grout. My only gripe is I dont like working with fast setting grouts.
I used Ultracolor FA and like it a lot. I think an overall secret with grout is if you're going to ignore the label, mix it super stiff, and then use the least water you can to clean it up. I see a lot of tilers mix it very thin, and use a lot of water to clean up, and I think this hurts the hardness compared to not doing either. Ultracolor Plus FA mixed according to directions is pretty stiff, though.
@@GilBatesLovesyou I agree. Mix it dry. It loosens up as you work with it anyway.
My suggestion is a hardner called Laticrete Seal Hard.
It’s a general purpose hardner. It’s pennies.
Really? Checked this on the Laticrete website and sounds like a pain in the butt to apply to existing grout joints.
If the grout dried rock hard wouldn't it crack as everything moved in it's flexed and contracted with cold and heat
Does flexibility have an effect over hardness.i would like to know.
I was just having the same, 100%, exact though.
Hey Coach I’m a cabinet maker in Santa Cruz that tackled his first dry pack pan with your vids. Because it was my first I went Mapei CQ (I think it’s called) Epoxy grout. That stuff is a tank. Absolutely rock solid. Now some spots I should have toweled better to smooth out. And on a second coat I did. But try that Mapei Epoxy. It’s the answer and it’s like another barrier of waterproofing.
My brother and I use an additive instead of water, that looks suspiciously similar to the hardener sent by your tech support. Try using it to mix your grout with.
Add. Something like liquid latex?
Wife brought home some TEC power grout, and I had her take it back. Good decision on my part. Your hardener is just acrylic admix. nothing more.IMHO.
I've never had any issues with prysim. No im not saying I've never had a call back to a job at all. But as far as prysm, I've had to scrape a wrong color out before and it was a pain in this ass to scrape that grout out. Definitely couldn't do it with a brush.