A Conversation About Race
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- čas přidán 21. 02. 2022
- The year 2020 was a year when Americans talked about race. But many would question whether we've gotten better at talking about race, or if we're worse at it than ever. So much is said that is hurtful, yet not saying something may be perceived as saying something.
On this episode of Let's Talk, @MyNameIsJackieHill, Jasmine Holmes, and Melissa Kruger give practical advice from their own experience for how to talk constructively about race. They discuss why critical race theory has become so controversial, and they talk about books that have helped them understand the history or race relations in America. Above all, they conclude that it's not what you say or don't say that determines whether you can have a productive conversation about race; it's whether you come into a discussion with compassion and humility.
Recommended Reading:
The Warmth of Other Suns by Isabel Wilkerson www.amazon.com/Warmth-Other-S...
The Underground Railroad [TGC's Review] by Colson Whitehead www.amazon.com/Underground-Ra...
The Personal Librarian by Marie Benedict www.amazon.com/Personal-Libra...
Caste by Isabel Wilkerson www.amazon.com/Caste-Origins-...
Just Mercy by Brian Stevenson www.amazon.com/Just-Mercy-Sto...
Carved in Ebony by Jasmine Holmes www.amazon.com/Carved-Ebony-L...
Related Resources
@peneljudd on Pursuing Unity When Discussing Ethnicity www.thegospelcoalition.org/ar...
Agents of Healing for Racial Division (podcast) www.thegospelcoalition.org/po...
How to Reach Across the Racial Divide (podcast) www.thegospelcoalition.org/po...
#race #racialjustice #church #asian #black #white #hispanic
So I’m a Christian woman who is black, living in America that doesn’t relate to this.
I grew up very multiculturally. I know what happened to my ancestors, and I know the sins of the past of the slave owners and those who were complicit to this in our country. I know personal racism and my non black friends have literally witnessed people be racist to me and were outraged. I know what it feels like when someone has stereotypes built in about me, and I love to teach them in our friendship to be a better person and grow their mentality because we’re all the human race.
I just don’t see how or why racists that still haven’t been taught or died out affect me today or why it should affect the church. I am free. I am able to achieve whatever the Lord wills, and I’m not enslaved. So I’ve honestly been sooo confused.
Galatians 3:27-28 kills this in the church for us. Whatever the world does doesn’t have to define us. Does it boil down to a sensitivity to the short-comings of others by how they view us?
I believe that the church needs to be the example of what it means to look at each other for our souls, not for our looks and the factions that form from that.
America’s past was terrible. And as someone who was a Cold War fallout kid, I completely buy in to the unity that came from the things MLK taught. What happened?
Also, Nationalist Christians have an idol the same way that Christians of color who let their identity be defined by anything other than their identity in Christ do.
Everything in school should be taught. I learned all those things mentioned and was taught- “but how do we make this better?”
I guess I’m confused and maybe sheltered or really blessed to have transcended my alleged lot, but what is the end goal, what is the acute problem (not the fact that racism still exists but what is happening to us right now that makes this so pressing), and why does this need to be in the church when we are not defined by our color???
Excellent point! You are not confused. You have it exactly right. We are not defined by our color. We are defined by the Christ all true believers belong to, regardless of skin color.
Amen. I was feeling the same way watching this. Why does our appearance have to be the only thing that we identify with? We are so much more than what we look like
For the people in the comments asking why this is a relevant conversation for the church to have: it’s important to have conversations that effect PEOPLE of the church. If a person is affected by something that their church can’t minister to, address, build them up in (because this conversation effects self-esteem & can limit how people see themselves, note - Jasmine saying she as a child thought her religion was “for” white people and she was an exception). Are you experiencing it in the church? No. Do you experience it when you leave? Typically. And if not blatantly to your person, racial messages are embedded in our media from beauty standards to TV tropes & stereotypes. All of which hurt and damage, by the way. Let’s be honest & center OTHER people’s feelings and experiences. If not, it just reenforces to people who already feel marginalized that their experiences and feelings don’t matter or don’t matter enough to have something to be done abt them, when the outrage over CRT has boiled down to we have to ban this because white kids may feel bad. See how dismissing the conversation on one hand but passing laws to address another races feelings is sending a message to the dismissed people? Yeah. Talk abt it. And remember if you become uncomfortable just hearing it, how uncomfortable the person who lived through it must have felt.
Thank you for this. The comments are so dismissive of the experiences of other, but their experience should be the norm. SMH
This conversation was great. It brought real tears and healing words. ❤
I decided to say I am a white woman to my family and friends. They are wondering why I have now decided to Exalt myself and draw attention to me instead of being an image barer of my Lord. I informed them that’s not really where my heart is. My external is not what God is looking at. I take no pride in my ethnic background or my gender. My identity is in Christ. The world has the boxes for identity based on race skin color gender sexual orientation rich or poor conservative or liberal political party. I don’t want to live there. I don’t live in the worlds boxes. Interesting dialogue ladies. Thanks for sharing your hearts. God bless.
Many of us don’t want to live in boxes, but many of us are subject to live in within those labels placed on them. You have to be white to be able to live “labeless” Bc whiteness is the standard of normal.
@@ricecristi - Maybe here. But if I went to Japan, Brazil, or Nigeria, I'd be expected to adapt to whatever the dominant culture is there. Just because there is a dominant culture does not somehow make it wrong or evil.
Can someone please tell me what is wrong in the churches with racism?? I’m genuinely lost and need stories. I am a Christian woman that’s black that has never been limited. I’ve experienced racism but it made me pity the person for small thinking, and it didn’t define me. In the church, those who are truly walking don’t ever show these malformed behaviors. What is happening in the church that makes this an emergency???
Does anyone have any stories to help me understand why this conversation is valid in light of Galatians 3:27-28??
I agree with you. Racism exists in the hearts of more people than just “white” people and the answer is the gospel…
Voddie Baucham is a good person to look into and is really helpful on this topic.
Grace and Peace to you. My wife is similar to the European-American sister. If she's home with time off, then she'll find a way to be busy. I have to take her away from the house so that she'll have nothing to do.
What dies that have to do with Racial reconciliation
@@johntobey1558 Grace and Peace to you. My comment was with regard to their discussion about staycations. Did you listen to that part?
I am surprised people come here just to criticize, it’s sad. It fascinating that some Christians become so defensive when the history of this country comes up? Will this country save you? I appreciate this conversation. People need to open their hearts and minds to listen. Agreeing may not be the goal but at least listening is the goal. We must ask why so many young people are leaving the church? Perhaps because they see a big disconnect between the words said and the actions that are done. This isn’t about liberalism or conservatism it’s about having the heart of Christ.
I was so moved by the Holy Spirit's wisdom of Truth- in your Poignant discussion, that I felt clearly led to share this on Facebook as part of my Series of posts, that have been giving a nod to Black History Month ❣️
As I've been praying for unity and acting on His call to be one of the voices and lives He might use to help bring this, so difficult Reality and call to us for unity and being as those who truly love one another, whilst all creation continues to groan for His return and His finishing the work He's begun in His Bride, I had to include a quote from our LORD Jesus through the Spirit of Christ =
"If you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from His love, if any Fellowship with the Spirit, if any tenderness & compassion, then make my JOY complete by being like-minded, having the same Love, being one in spirit and purpose. Do NOTHING out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others.
Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus (Yeshua, Messiah):
Who being in very nature God,
did Not consider equality with God
something to be grasped,
but made Himself nothing,
Taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man,
He humbled Himself
and became obedient to Death--
even death on a cross!
Therefore God exalted Him to the Highest place
and gave Him the Name that is above every name,
that at the Name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in Heaven and on earth and under the earth,
And every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is LORD to
the Glory of God the Father. "
Above is SUCH an Important Truth as we, who are TRULY in Christ, both pray and in His empowering, DO the work towards the REAL unity and Love we are called to have for each other-- in this actual factual Universal Church of Our Great God and Saviour Jesus Christ (Yeshua Messiah) Himself--which will one day have remnants from Every Tribe, Tongue and Nation, worshipping Him together, Forever ❣️
It comes from the Holy Spirit's words given to us through the Apostle to the Goyim ( the Gentiles ), Paul in
Philippians 2:1-11
And as Jackie Hill-Perry and her friends and Sisters in Christ, pointed out in this video=
It is also SUCH an Important Truth as we, who are TRULY in our God and Saviour Jesus Christ, are called by Him to this Very REAL Love-in-action way of life, just as He explains to us in John 13:35=
"By This all people will Know that you are my disciples,
If you LOVE one another."
We Must Do So Much Better At This--❤️🩹❣️
🙏, 🙌. ☝️
We know it will fully be true in Heaven 😂😊💗
Where there will be no more pain, tears, sickness, or sadness...
😢😭😂😅😊☺️😄😀😃
The world is watching!! Amen!
Great conversation! Stay encouraged
These women are right that nationalism is a big idol in the world today. Our attachment to our nationality and our ethnic group should be relatively weak. Our strong attachment needs to be to the Lord Jesus Christ.
The big divide in the world is between those who are friends of Christ and those who are enemies of Christ; those who are born again and those who aren't; those who are on track for eternal life and those who are on track for hell.
What is lacking from this conversation is erudition. Perhaps some clarity on ethno-nationalism, nations and federal identity. Perhaps a little less self absorbed, solipsistic rehearsals of black identity in the first 10 min. Would elevate tge conversation to something a little more balanced and not as obsessed with black Beaty and black power.
This is bullying.
I am so glad Malcolm X was brought up! Another person I think about is Muhammad Ali! I know Muhammad had a longer opportunity but still though, it is undeniable that the times they lived in had a profoundly negative impact on how they turned to another god! Thank you for this much needed conversation and the balance you all brought to it!
We talk about race too much
Dr. Tony Evans spoke about CRT, I believe at Liberty University but I know he spoke about the topic at his church.
I absolutely love where this conversation goes at minute 24. "Do you hear the rumblings and groanings?" "Yes, but I disagree about what it means."
Common grace can mean a common understanding that the world is broken. The unsaved see this brokenness and try to understand it within their world view. We who have been given the spirit of God also see, but we see it from God's perspective with a biblical lens. ❤️ it, ladies!!
I really appreciated this too!!
Yes-- this part really spoke to me as I've been studying Romans 8:19-25 from Paul, as led by The Holy Spirit--, and Matthew 24/Mark 13 on the Birth Pains/groanings of creation, as Spoken by our God and Saviour Yeshua Messiah Himself -
- Jackie Hill Perry & all three of these sisters in Christ have nailed it.
Haha "Am I the black boy" 😹
Great episode! Talking about race isn't divisive.
I've noticed for me that through conversations about race with my brothers and sisters in Christ that I've seen those who really care to know me and my experiences and stand with me (and I with them) vs those who are more interested in protecting their ego and pride.
Growing up in Toronto its VERY multicultural- not just black and white, but people from all over. And Its from talking about and learning from our similarities, differences, injustices etc. that I've been able to form true and life-giving relationships with people from all communities. Please, we know we are all one in Christ, but let us all put aside our pride and listen to one another, so we can better serve each other. Love to you all!
Grace and Peace to you. Today is my 2nd day ever in Toronto. Last night, I attended bible study at Thistletown Baptist Church, which is located in Etobicoke. That was a highly multicultural experience.
Really, you're going to mock and scoff at our parent's right and good concerns over secular humanism, postmodernism, and evolution? That's shameful, TGC. This is subtly a new low.
19:00
I am so glad that I studied hard in biology class. These women do not understand any topic that they brought up.
They are obfuscating and joking about their ignorance on what CRT is and how it has impacted teaching.. The Kruger lady is director of womens content and the wife of the RTS Charlotte president. This is where the popular reformed/evangelical circles are going.
Such a great and thoughtful conversation. Thank you sisters.
Excellent thought provoking dialogue 🙏
My ancestors were Whaling Captains in tge early 1800's who lived on Cape Cod and Namtucket. We did not own the ships but Captian William Tobey like many of tge Ship owners who were Quaker refused to do business with ships that were part of tge triangular take which brought slaves to South Carolina. Other Ship Caotains prospered from the slave trade. We are tired of being treated like our rather humble wealth was inherited by thus like their neighbors in Narragansett Bay Jackie Hill Perry is a Critical Race theorist.
We risk the Gospel. Man oh man... thank you for this wonderful chat, ladies!
So thankful Jackie and jasmine are in this conversation.
CRT, is what law students have to study. It’s deeply helpful, but people rarely want to learn something deeply (especially if they feel it doesn’t affect them) Racism is systemic Bc colonialism/imperialism was global. Racism can also be an individuals experience not just a societal oppression.
I’m super done with western white church, and I’m done making white people comfortable. I’ve had to spend my life reducing my experiences or not talking about what is happening because white Christian’s are uncomfortable. Yet they have never considered that I have had to be uncomfortable everyday I walk out of house.
I left white church in 2008, and have had to live without community, because black church wasn’t able to answer the questions I had about the Bible. I’ve had to fully depend on the Holy Spirit to navigate life as an adult black woman.
I can’t wait for the Jude 3 documentary about this.
Grace and Peace to you. I had a difficult time finding a church with black culture that teaches the doctrines that I believe are biblical. It took hours of research and conversations. I found what I wanted, with some qualifications, and it was worth all of the effort. I encourage others to do the same.
@@lark8356 any in the LA area? I’d love to check some out. God is truly with me, He’s led me to teachers like Jackie, Tim Mackie, graham Cooke, etc. or channels like this one, Jude 3, or the Bible project. All paired with lots and lots of prayer. Any info would be warmly welcome, thank you!
(Spirit filled teaching please)
@@ricecristi All Praises to the Most High God for connecting you to biblical media!
I found 7 churches in your region that may be good fits for you:
Calvary Chapel Crenshaw
University Christian Church
Calvary Chapel Inglewood
Kadesh Christ's Church
Calvary Chapel Compton
Community of Faith Bible Church
Southern Missionary Baptist Church
Let me know if you need more information on those churches.
Go to the About section of my CZcams page.
You can find my contact information there.
TGC bending to culture
Correct. Race is an idol in our culture today.
I wonder if TGC was ever not bent to culture?
Keller was a founder and most of this equity, systemic injustice, unconscious bias, etc were all things he taught and wrote about for the past 30 years.. all the while the PCA propped him up like the anointed one. So disappointed in the denomination I grew up in that they let him and others preach this nonsense for so long unchecked
@@Josh.1234 Bingo!
Sorry but making fun of people trying to protect you from anti-biblical ideologies is nothing to make fun of.
Be careful that you aren’t slowly drifting away. Be careful.
Thank you for this conversation!!
This is embarrassing, can't we get some educated women on this show.
how dare you call anyone ignorant :) thought i would beat the leftist to the response
John Tobey: To say that they are uneducated, simply makes your position sound even more lame-- and it makes you look incredibly stupid.
"If anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself." Galatians 6:3
"The man who thinks he knows something
does not yet know as he ought to know.
But the man who loves God is known by God 🙏☝️🙂❣️🙌". 1 Corinthians 8:2-3
Why can't the conversation be about being a "Godly" woman? I think that talking about our color is what creates division. The government is playing all of us.
I respectfully disagree. Not discussing the obvious elephant in the room does not bring you closer to God but instead does the exact opposite. We need to discuss things that make us uncomfortable so we can grow in our knowledge and understanding of others whether we agree with them or not.
@@FG-ej1xd - It isn't an obvious elephant in the room. Not all African Americans believe in CRT or systemic racism today. However, when CRT proponents say to "elevate black voices", they only mean leftist black voices, not Candace Owens, Voddie Baucham, Ben Carson, Allen West, Sage Steele, Thomas Sowell, etc..Not all African Americans have the same experiences.
@Stephen Staedtler how does that negate my comment in any way?? Whether you believe in the premise behind CRT or not race still needs to be discussed because it's something people skate pass and don't want to talk about, making it an obvious elephant in the room. It just boggles my mind how people want race to be seen and not heard.
Your white fragility is showing ma’am.
Talking about color is simply out the division that has already been existing for ages (which needs to be done if racial reconciliation is to be a thing).
because God made us different colors... so talking about the God divined differences in us causes division? Does talking about our different up bringing, languages, jobs, etc,. also cause division? Or does it give us insight into the vastness of Gods creativity? My color is not the most important thing about me, but because God created it - it is important.
It was created at Harvard Law School, get it right girls. They were training to be lawyers.
You okay my guy?
Wrong wrong!!
Do they have a thought disorder?
Nancy Pearsey, or women who have actually studied Jaque Derrida, Marcus,
Go to founders Ministry. Why don't they explain what the Frankfurt School is.
Like Abolitionists at Park Street Church in Boston, Ma in 1800's.
More learned please.
Nancy Peacey teaches at Houston Bapt.Univ.
This entire video is dismissive.
If changing curriculum to make white students comfortable doesn't perfectly describe this country and its history I don't know what does
You are right that there should be no double standards. Changing curriculum to make white students comfortable, but not doing the same for black students, is all wrong.
But I would suggest that you are being too one-sided when you say that this perfectly describes your country and its history.
@Max Aplin Okay. I respectfully disagree. Thanks for the comment.
Both Malcolm X and Mark Twain wrote books about racism.
Malcolm makes white people feel guilt for being white, and black people feel bitterness towards white people, because he hated white people. Whereas Twain tells a story that makes white and black people hate racism, because Twain hated racism. That's the difference.
Has Jackie Hill Perry graduated from College.
I am going to go back to Shai Linne's talk on this. This could not be any less helpful. Why are we listening to these never Trumpers speaking. This is an Evangelicls for Biden Chapter. They need to listen. . .
It's only confusing because you are not well educated.
This is word salad.
Please find mire educated women.