Game Theory: Joel's Choice Meant Nothing! (The Last of Us)
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- čas přidán 19. 06. 2020
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The Last of Us is one of the most gut wrenching games to come out in recent memory and, since The Last of Us Part 2 is out now, what better time to sink my teeth into this franchise! You know that gut punch, emotional rollercoaster ride I was just talking about? What if I told you that your final choice of the game to save Ellie or let her die to save the world was WRONG? What do I mean? Get ready Theorists, I'm about to blow your mind!
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#TheLastofUs #TheLastofUs2 #TheLastOfUsPartII #TLOU #TLOU2 #Ellie #Joel #NaughtyDog #Theory #GameTheory
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Credits:
Writers: Matthew Patrick and Justin Kuiper
Editors: Alex "Sedge" Sedgwick and Forrest Lee
Assistant Editor: AlyssaBeCrazy
Sound Editor: Yosi Berman
Sources:
static1.thegamerimages.com/wo...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti... - Hry
When Ellie was tuning the guitar, I said sarcastically "Oh, I bet she's gonna play Megalovania."
As soon as I heard those four notes, I fell out of my chair laughing.
She does play A-ha Take on Me.
Gross
Amazing
I started laughing hard too
i thought the same lmao, i knew MatPat was up to something fishy
Fun fact: a doctor reacted to this game and he said he would never kill a person to make a vaccine. He said it’s immoral and unnecessary. According to him, there are numerous ways to make a vaccine without killing Ellie... just putting that out there.
Well that seems familiar. Listening to the actual science professors is never what the officials do
The Fireflies are stupid cliché villains.
It's why Joel never took them seriously. And they were going to murder Ellie for an uncertainty.
The doctor in last of us was a desperate guy who made a horrible, dumb choice and clearly didn’t know what he was doing. Vaccines don’t cure fungi
🤦♂️
Yeah but let's say it would work, while I agree with him it's a completely different story when the world is at stake,if I had a choice between one person dying and the whole world ending I am choosing the one person,but to be fair the world was already ending
What's funny is that the game actually mentioned in little journals, notes, and recording that you can find that the likelihood of success is incredibly low for the surgery to begin with because of the fact that Cordiceps is a fungus, not a virus. So, to make matters worse, they acted out of fear rather than sound judgement.
What t
yeah in the first game you were given the impression they were right in the head. If I remember right. But all that went in the bin with part 2.
@@JamieZero7 Not sure if you're referring to the fireflies, the main characters, or the game developers...but you would be correct in all three cases.
@@lrsb1678 You can find audio logs and written logs regarding the success and likelihood of testing at the University shortly before the encounter where Joel gets impaled.
THANK YOU! Clear that many didn't actually read or listen to the notes
Everyone seems to forget that Ellie never gave consent to their medical experimentation/literal murder
Its pretty weird seeing people try to make the argument that she wanted to die and that Joel did something wrong by preventing her from being killed. Ellie is still a child who isn’t even capable of giving any kind of consent, and even if she was ok with it the fireflies never ran it by her and asked if she did want to do it. I think saving a child from having their brain removed without their consent is more morally justified than a dying organization murdering a child for their own gain without having any resources to properly develop and manufacture a vaccine in the apocalypse
@@bronmill33 You two absolutely get the core issue. The Fireflies are child murderers. Regardless of their motives or chances of success, stopping them is 100% the correct moral choice. No doubt about it.
I agree that they are moronic incompetents and their plan would never have worked, but they could have waited for Ellie to wake up and asked for her consent. The fact that they expressly didn't, and kept Joel away from her, shows they KNEW what they were doing was wrong.
In my playthrough, I actually ignored the doctors at first because they were just cowering in fear. I went to the near side of the surgical table and tried to pick Ellie up. No, said the game. I tried to go around to the right. Denied. So I went around to the left. That's when the doctor attacked me with the scalpel. I did the quick time event and Joel disarmed him, and killed him with the scalpel. Huh. Well, that was stupid on the doctor's part. Time to get Ellie and go.
I would have let him live if he hadn't attacked me. I think that's pretty generous towards the guy who's trying to kill my surrogate daughter. The most aggressive move I made was open the door suddenly then try to push my way past him. The fact I killed him while defending myself doesn't trouble me at all.
You're worried about murder, 20+ years into the apocalypse... :/
@@bronmill33 havent played the 2nd game cause im just too disgusted by its story to even give it a try, but didnt ellie kinda hate joel in part 2 for not letting the fireflies carry out the surgery and "save humanity"? it seems like she still gave consent to it even as an adult
@@criticalcrits5906 Hate is a strong word, I would say she was mad and disappointed at him for lying/hiding the truth.
"The fireflies were just idiots." It carries so much meaning and delivery.
Why do I now imagine Joel‘s last words being like this: „Anyway, those fireflies were just idiots, they deserved to die.“ 😂
They sadly passed that trait to their children as well
But in all honesty, I would have loved if Joel’s last words would have been like Rick‘s last words in TWD, something that has a deeper meaning.
Especially when Abby The bigger idiot's daughter kills Joel , the guy that did absolutely nothing wrong. I guess saving Ellie from getting killed withoUT consent is perfectly fine. Saving her? Absolutely Not Fine.
@@RetroRuin What? Lol! She killed joel because joel killed her father, in the original game.
Hypothetically, let's say they go through with the surgery and are successful in finding a cure. What kind of resources would they actually have to continue to manufacture additional vaccines?
Remember in the first game when some Fireflies attacked the military zone? Maybe part of the reason they've attacked zones like that, is because they have those specific resources.
Based on what we know about the fungus as it is in the games, they'd have to continuously culture Ellie's cure-strain in *other* human beings, leading to mass loss of life and human cultivation in order to maintain a vaccine. A bit of a yikes.
(And yes, it's the actual fungus within ellie that is the cure, not anything about her herself. Marlene explains that it is the fungus itself that has mutated and doesn't progress into any of the harmful latter stages, and sorta just chills on the brain.)
They also mentioned that the Fireflies were just a resistance group, they only had focused on making a cure when Ellie who was close with one of the members had the strange occurrence of becoming immune.
Remember that the WLF (or “Wolves”) in the second game were another resistance group but they had better succession in battling the QZ’s military. If they went through the same events as the Fireflies, a cure would’ve probably already been made or at least the plans of a cure that works would be formed & they’d be gathering more resources for.
Exactly, the best way to save everyone is to let ellie’s genes breed until the cure is a genetic thing
@@IamaPERSON but by the time we reach the fireflies HQ Marlene tells us that the FF are almost done and they lost most of their men
I think it was a desperate attempt at best
The fact that Jerry the surgeon saved zebra and then within a minute decided to kill a child… this just tells everything about this hypocrite
to be fair in the cutscene right after that, when he talks with marlene about ellie, he also doesnt want to kill her
I mean it’s not like he was killing her out of anger or to get satisfaction, he really did believe that killing her would save the world. In my eyes he wasn’t immoral, just ignorant
Joel wasn't gonna let Ellie die because of the fireflies stupidity, he absolutely made the right decision.
@@S_Miclemiebut he wouldn't do the same if it was his daughter he was the selfish one
An ER Doctor actually confirmed after reacting to TLoUPII that they wouldn't risk killing an individual for a vaccine because they'd find another way, and it's impractical. Joel's decision saved her life. One of the few problems that came out of Joel's decision was Ellie's desire to make her death matter, and how she felt like he took it from her. During the game it was made clear that the Doctors weren't professionals so Joel DID save her life, because they would've killed her in the process of figuring out how to obtain the cure and her death would've been meaningless in terms of finding a vaccine.
Fair but 1 it's a game and 2 it's the apocalypse
@@RashtaEinthisBthats not an excuse even if its a fact
Is there a video of this that I can watch?
@@SuperboyLilly czcams.com/video/BtyYt3D8xu8/video.html around timestamp 5:07
Didn’t Marlene say like that cure/ not cure would still have the fungus but would do less harm when Joel first walks up
im astonished by how well matpat explained viruses and fungi without making it complicated
Not to bash the newer theories, but old GT WAS mainly just online school done by someone downright talented in teaching complicated subjects in an interesting and intuitive way.
It made me happy to know that he's still capable of doing so.
Yeah I liked the older theories there is something from them that the newer ones are missing. I liked the history, mythology and of course THE SCIENCE. I hope this continues.
Yea, Mat's a "fungi".
He explain better than my science teacher
Nope. He compared a fungi to a plant despite the fact that it is extremely different. The only similarities are superficial as in they cant move like other life forms can. Generally speaking a fungi is as closely related to a plant as is an animal. They're their own separate things. And calling fungi just plants that use life forms for sustainance is wrong as there in fact are parasitic plants and plants that feed off of living beings.
Joel: wht are you doing kiddo?
Elli: I'm gonna give every last one of them a bad time
Joel: uhhh... wrong game?
Oh god i just L O V E you now XDXDXDXD
S
T
O
P
My two favorite video games cross over Nice
Elli removes face ITS actally sans
Whatever
OMG Finally someone has hit on the thing that has annoyed me most about that game. Keeping Ellie alive should be the fireflies priority. They should be trying to figure out what unique pathophysiology is at play with Ellie. She could have a similar but benign strain of the fungus that chokes out other versions, or unique antibodies, either way you need her alive to find out. If I were Joel, I would object to this procedure on multiple levels, first being a parent its in my programming to protect children especially one who has not given informed consent, nor is old enough to do so. Then we get into moral issues, after all that, we get to why your science sucks.
The Fireflies are stupid villains.
Someone actually did a video recently looking at the medical charts, papers, and test results presented in the game. She's infected with a benign strain that produces a chemical used in modern antibiotic and antifungal drugs. Hence Ellie's immunity isn't biological, but rather competitive.
Marlene is actually Ellie mum since Ellie’s mum told her to take of care her Marlene told tess to take a child to a place but tess gave that job to Joel
@@diveforknowledge Link?
@@anisahmed2331 nah, she was the best friends of ellies mum, promised her to protect ellie, then condemned ellie to be dissected for her glorified terrorist group, the fireflies. Without consent.
Joel is the one taking care of ellie the entirety of the game, while the other characters don‘t know about the bond they got, marlene points out that she didn‘t believe joel would pull through/ thought they both died along the way.
Joel is much more of a surrogate parent than Marlene ever was.
Abby's dad stopped being a good person the moment he decided to murder an innocent girl. So what if he struggled with it? He decided to go through with it, which makes me feel absolutely no empathy or remorse, no matter how hard the second game tried.
But.. but he saved a zebra!
HE SAVED A ZEBRA, MAN!!
One minor to save millions and get the world back to normal yeah I’m killing Ellie too
@@elitetheking688 It's far from a guaranteed cure. If you'd murder an innocent girl to "save the majority", you should probably check yourself.
@@CharlieMikeNS what if it was a guaranteed cure that would save the world
@@FondueTheGoober It could never be guaranteed. There's a high likelihood it would result in no cure.
I think the whole point of this game is that the choice you would probably make depends on who that person is to you. I don't think you could find any parent on earth that would make that decision, even though Joel isn't Ellie's father, he certainly adopted a father-figure role, and she effectively became his daughter.
imagine being one of those ants and being conscious like “ay bruh i gotta get back to the colony...no wait wtf wrong way ahaha not cool no seriously stop STOP IT AINT FUNNY”
hahaha bruh I'm getting tired, hungry, and thirsty... I wanna see my wife and kids bruh, pls bruh I don't wanna die
𝔗𝔥𝔢𝔯𝔢 𝔪𝔶 𝔴𝔦𝔣𝔢 𝔞𝔫𝔡 𝔨𝔦𝔡𝔰 𝔫𝔬𝔴 𝔥𝔞𝔥𝔞𝔥𝔞
it ant funny*
@@matthewpauls2498 xD
They might actually have a primitive form of this thought process, actually. Because ants are actually self-aware. That's kinda horrifying.....
This wasn't a "Game Theory"
This man is just spitting straight fax
Yea
Yea
Yea
Yea
Yea
It's worth mentioning, since I haven't seen any other comments about it. You can tell they didn't know what they were doing because Joel couldn't have been knocked out for more than a few hours to a day, that's not nearly long enough to warrant chopping her brain to bits. Also, they almost fricken killed her when they knocked Joel out, who was clearly doing chest compressions and not being even remotely threatening whatsoever. They didn't even get to see her brain and how it functioned when she was awake.
Insane how exact this is to what the show is currently saying. The writers did their research lmao
The show hasn't really gotten here yet
@@KyanNezhad I just mean the openings and such. They're really pushing the whole you can't cure it angle.
@@Slowess_ all I know is I'm incredibly excited to see this story all over again
Yeah
@@Slowess_ I'm pretty sure they aren't doing it to be clever. Neil Cuckman has a peanut brain. It's more so to make Ellie seem like more a miracle. Not to negate the actions of the Fireflies. They want Joel to seem as bad of a person as possible for season 2 and they will definitely make it feel like there is a definite cure for Ellie. Just as they did in the game.
"Viruses are not the same as Fungi"
People who've played plague Inc: please, I'm not a child
If you play plague inc. You are a certified doctor
The game does not go into details about this but if you pay attention to the prologue in the first game you can read between the lines that this was a military experiment gone wrong that had leaked out into the public. So there is a sci-fi part to the story that is a bit unrealistic.
@@dribrom yup
Can't play it in China
Rescue RAPscallion I wonder why
If the Lord give Joel another chance to save Ellie he would do it again.
That's a spoiler :
Well yes, But actually no.
Praise the Lord. May he erase TLOU 2. Amen.
He even said it
you mean, the same video games lord that allowed millions to die from the infection and millions more killing each other to survive or dying out there without any resources or by clickers
I don't think you understand but I may be wrong here because this might be a VIDEO GAME.....
4:05
One of the characters in the game, Sam, who travels with his brother alongside Joel and Ellie for a little bit, he says that this is what he's afraid of the most. Turning but still being alive within the infection without any control over your body.
That even more sad knowing he turned 😢
@@lazerfrogstudiosHe turned for like 20 minutes
@@AJayZyyes because then his brother shot him
@@ItsPREPP98 Yea so max was 20 minutes
@@AJayZy honestly, you don't know how long he had turned cuz as much as I remember, Ellie opened the door of Sam's room at morning while he had discovered it before night so it is very much possible he turned at night and attacked Ellie when she opened it at morning meaning it could be a few hours too.
If I were I the game developers I could probably make a whole 3rd game based on the information given in the video. Like Ellie meeting someone like a scientist or something, that tells her the fireflies were wrong and that Joel made the right choice and that kickstarts some sort of chain of events idk...
I hope they do, i want to know what happens after
"The fireflies aren't regrouping"
A perfect bridge to part 3
I have a podcast and in our episode next Friday I pitch my idea for TLOU part 3 that’s pretty much based off of this theory! If you’re interested our podcast is called Rewind and Replay and can be found on CZcams or anywhere you listen to podcasts! I totally agree this would make for such a great 3rd game premise!
As much as I’d like that I feel Ellie killed hersekf after the 2nd part
@@lawrencevalero8111 czcams.com/video/-Fft2jEOzEY/video.html Here you go! Hope you enjoy :)
MatPat: talking about the difference between Viruses and Fungi
Plague Inc players: *the expert*
Hu
Roanoke Gaming would like to have a word with you
Relatable i play Plague inc a lot
Game Theory: Joel's choice meant nothing
TLOU 2: WE KNOW
TLOU 2: I KNOW YOU KNOW. I GET IT.
TLOU 2: did you guys know joel's
Death meant nothing.
@@CalebEade Of course it meant something, Abby got a Joel in one!
Did you guys know Joel didn't die?
#notfuckingcanonthelastofus2
#Joeldidntdie
#thelastofus2doesn'texist
How ? His skull was bashed
I always knew that Joel made the right choice when he saved Ellie.
The real question: if Ellie has kids, will they be infected with the wrong specimen too, and therefore immune?
Maybe, maybe not. No one knows. Genetics are extremely complicated. There is a chance tho that she could pass it on
You know what's fun? WE'LL NEVER KNOW CUZ *ELLIE'S GAY BY THE WAY!*
lmfao
@@hunormagyar1843could still have kids via surrogates
@@dejaypage1575
It's a post apocalyptic world, I don't think it's a viable option
@@hunormagyar1843 okay and?
Intro: *plays a short megalovania* Me: Okay I’m hooked.
Gross
Haha, funny skeleton man music haha funny funny
It’s very “funny” I am laughing so hard
Very haha skeleton
Was megalovania supposed to be funny I mostly found it as a cool track
So Abby's dad was a "doctor" and didn't know the difference between virus and fungus? Wow.
more reason to hate her and her stupid revenge story
Fantasma K They were so desperate by that time they deluded themselves that they could make it work.
Im considiring tlou 2 as an alternate universe idc for me Joel live a happy life with Ellie and became a grand father
Bromako Cartoons you sound unstable.
@@weebabyshakeus no the fanbase in general also pretends tlou2 never exists.
I already knew that killing ellie is the worst thing to do. There are many ways to test ellie without killing her
Let’s not forget the fact that the fire fly that was marching Joel loud near the end of the game did not give him the chance to grab his equipment or items Wichman, either two things he was being marched out to be executed, or if they didn’t let him go. He was going to be left in the infected world with not even a single gun to defend himself, which is basically a death sentence anyway, he also wasn’t compensated or paid the original price for delivering Ellie and he was assaulted multiple times by the fire flies once getting beat on the head with a rifle and then again getting kicked in legs honestly, if first impressions are everything the the fire flies failed miserably. Also, Marlenes audio log explains that the fire flies originally wanted her to kill Joel while he was sleeping, which is completely ruthless he single-handedly got the cure for mankind all the way across America and they were just going to Murk him in his sleep.
I feel like a lot of people who were bitten would’ve either killed themselves or been killed before they found out if they were immune or not. It’s not like a zombie is gonna bite you then run away after.
THIS
Also, they don't know why Ellie is inmune, maybe her brain lacks a vitamin/protein so the fungus can't feed (just like ppl inmune to VIH)
TLOU2 could have been the story about how the goverment had inmunity tests but kept them secret (lots of innecesary suicides)
The entire pandemic could be an "military experiment gone wrong"
Isaac Rojas
As soon as I read “the government had immunity test but kept them secret” it reminded my of how me and my siblings were jokingly saying that corona virus is exaggerated and it’s a cover up for something. Really makes you think...
Not zombies, Ophiocordyceps unilateralis... its same but different, but still same
Isaac Rojas They should had hired you to direct the game.
yaawn boring story is boring
you know what, ya did it. this one makes the most sense.
Don’t say ya instead of you
@@TheWockComp Ya don't make the grammar rules.
Ewan Ewan Dont tell them what to do
Ewan Ewan ya don’t tell people how to talk. It’s their thing, you have your way.
Ewan Ewan sHuT yOuRe nOt mY dAd
It’d be cool to see Ellie meet a scientist to actually learn about her condition and why she’s immune in TLoU Part 3.
Even the moral argument is mostly on Joel’s side. They didn’t inform him or Ellie about it. They weren’t gonna give Ellie the choice, Ellie was probably too young to reasonably consent such a thing, not to mention Joel grew attached to her, treated her like a daughter, and himself healed from the trauma of losing his last daughter.
Ellie: *plays megalomania*
Joel: "Damnit Ellie what'd I tell you about playing them dead memes?!"
First of all, v*
Second of all, it will never die, not even during the inevitable apocalypse
Haha nice joke, cuz sans is a skeleton
*wait you're not joking*
Mahmudul Hasan lol
clicker meme
Better than a rickroll!
joel: (wakes up)
marlene: sorry, they didnt know who you were
joel: wheres ellie?
marlene: they just did some tests on her and took some of her antibodies, we have a vaccine now
ellie: (walks in) ayo whats up joel
(credits roll)
edit: thanks for all the likes guys, i appreciate it 👍
"everyone gets a happy ending" 10/10 - IGN
if they did that there would be no abby
@@thecoolcarhd4402 she would still be with her dad
@@E__Saurabh the only mistake joel did is killing the doctor he couldve just push him or knock him out but not killing him
@@Natan_Korkot true. You can't save someone by killing the good people.
They never said if the abbies dad was even that type of doctor who could come up with a vaccine
They did
He might not even be a doctor he could have lied for protection
Its on the Dictaphone Ellie finds in the hospital. Even if they got Ellie back, they couldn't do anything without Abby's dad.
@@Trikeboy2 in no part of these games does it even say her dad is a dr. On that field of medicine. Plus they have they videos one here where real doctors who are in the field watch the the clips and totally tear the clips apart
@@johnw391 Actually Abby says to Lev that she grew up around doctors (implying her mom and dad) when Lev asks how she knows what tissues are...
The cool thing about this is that the show’s continuity has changed the reason Ellie’s infected.
It’s not that they’re trying to make a vaccine, but trying to make a version of to cordyceps that send out a false signal to invading cordyceps to deactivate them, rather than trying to destroy them.
They're really trying to make Joel wrong lol.
Honestly, that does make sense, because they were clearly going for that "family versus humanity" moral quandary... But damn if I even care at this point.
But In the second episode it pretty much sets in stone that there is no vaccine, there is no cure, there is no hope. I think the show is genuinely trying to preach that Joel is doing what any other person would do for someone they love. He even says he’s heard of this before and how it doesn’t work, in the game too. After 20 years of survival and no sign that humanity will ever be restored feels like a poor place to insert this whole “morality test”. I really hope the show changes up the second season and doesn’t do Joel as dirty. Obviously, I think Joel will die, but I think his death will actually have more meaning come this second season. I hope,
This just seems like a teacher trying to explain how medicine and vaccines work in a cool way.
He's teaching us more than our teacher does!
@@RGC_animation yes
Game and (some of) film theory in a nutshell
@Devin Lumpkin You do it. You said it.
@Devin Lumpkin then some Karen's will take the bait tell the news to other Karen's and our plan for game theory to go international will be complete.
Game Theorists: "Joel's choice meant nothing"
Everyone: *Stares with visible confusion*
I was the 69th like :3
Wouldn’t be the first time this had happened.
Me: wat who joel
I mean, I and probably alot more people knew. I thought everyone just looked away just to keep the ultimate game choice interesting in the moral perspective xd
So guys today I found out my choices meant nothing
I totally agree Joel was in the right. The thing Joel did wrong was leave witnesses when he got rid of the fireflies.
I dont know if the video mentioned this, but if they killed her, they would've killed the fungus, and thus possibly releasing spores. In the games, we can see that naturally dead clickers and other infected spread spores. This also refers to real life cordyceps. If the host dies, the fungus dies. And if the host died, the fungus would spread its last spores in attempt to infect others. Therefore, if they actually proceeded, i dont think it would've given a proper result, and also risk spores being released.
If the host dies, fungus dies, therefore no result.
"What are you doing, kiddo?...."
"EDEDEDEDED"
"DO YOU WANNA HAVE A BAD TIME?"
[hehehehe*]
Sans the meme SAAAAAAAAAANNNNNZZZZ
Doo you wanna have a bad tom?!
Matpat: viruses are like zombies on a cellular level
Cells at work: Been there, do not want to go back.
Love that anime lol
Hataraku?
I see you are also a intellectual of the “WEEB”
@@DecafInvidia WE ARE HATARAKU
@@DecafInvidia saibou!!!
Let’s face it. There’s evidence in the game that, no matter what, they might not be able to make the cure at all even with someone who’s immune. There’s even the chance they might not have even developed the surgical process itself correctly. There’s also really not much of anything to save, and by the time of the game, good human nature and common sense has just degraded so much that even the Fireflies have a screw loose in exchange for Social Darwinism. I mean, Joel’s a smuggler- A HUNTER-TURNED-SMUGGLER- and he is one of the relatively rare ones who still has his head screwed on the right way. The second game actually says the WLF were worse than FEDRA. And what does the WLF have in it? A group of former Fireflies.
Ellie didn’t deserve to die for a world that would’ve only taken advantage of her murd- sacrifice and abused it. She also didn’t deserve to die if it meant nothing in the end.
im really curious and this is not hate, could pls explain where it states the vaccine wouldnt work in the first game?
Yep, I can see how Joel just understood this right when he knew the fireflies’ true intentions with Ellie, and how at the same time this understanding came in a mater of seconds. This game truly is a masterpiece.
“What are you doing, kid? “
*”HAVING A BAD TIME*
Y E S
Finally someone finally noticed that
We’re really doing this?
so every time someone gets vaccinated their immune system says “just like the simulations “
fishyyy essentially, yes.
im sorry but im unable to like this comment
it reached the golden number
Nope, the vaccine is the simulations. It is every time they get infected afterwards they get to say it.
There is another
Lol I love this comment
The actual ant fungus doesn't make you attack things. They really just wander around and then kill themselves. I've thought of the Last of Us thing as a fungus/virus mutant. The fungus deforms the body, which then makes it an acceptable host for the virus, which changes their behavior.
There was this video that said that the cordyceps in humans could affect the part of your brain that makes you aggressive and hungry
@@azaria7528 I believe that was form Roanoke Gaming, he has an entire series that breaksdown the theoretical biology of the cordyceps.
@@sylaconnocalys8443 yeah I watched them
What makes it even worse is the second game goes out of its way to vilify Joel while painting the fireflies as if they actually knew what they were doing.
That's why I hated the second game.
Remember this newbies, it is important thing to know: toad is a literal fungus thats destroying the mushroom kingdom, and bowser is the good guy.
Your welcome for bringing back that bootiful episode.
😕🙁😟😡
WHY?! Bring back a horrific story
(._.) why must you mention this
Remember folks: All the bricks you smash were people magically transformed. Mario is a monster.
I was literally just thinking about that one
“With the game’s final choice being the biggest gut punch in gaming history...”
Until the last of us 2 came out and suddenly there was a different kind of gut punch.
More like other places...
oof dont remind me
I felt that
@MEME KILLER cant have an apocalypse bunker without a golf tournament
Me: I'm not crying your crying
They actually admitted this in the last of us show. In the second episode beginning, the Jakarta officer asks the mycologist if there is a vaccine for Cordyceps, and the mycologist said there are none, and proposes to bomb the city if they really wanted to stop infection.
yeah they spent the openings of episodes 1 and 2 proving why Joel was right and i love it
She also says that there's no cure or medicine for it which there is. All the scientists in the show seem to forget that antifungals work.
if anything, Joel’s choice didn’t mean nothing, but it meant EVERYTHING
This theory (or fact) just made the game even better for making even more sense about Joel’s decision -although he probably didn’t know about viruses/fungi (or maybe he does?) -still it’s a relief to actually come to realize the rescue was not in vain
So, I should 100% hate Jerry the surgeon now.
More like 110%, I already hated his guts for trying to operate on someone without their permission
Matt Rutkowski making a vaccine wasn’t going to happen anyway they tried it before and fireflies are sketchy group that attacked Joel first drugged ellie. Even if a vaccine was made the leader of the fireflies isn’t abbys dad, the leader would turn the vaccine into a power struggle over other groups.
@@mattrutkowski5305 I dont think that's technically ethical, since ellie herself did not consent, but it is technically not illegal? Idk about law
@@mattrutkowski5305 uhhhhhhhhhh no, it wasn't ethical, even if Marlene was the guardian.
If I have a 14 year old daughter, I can't take her to the hospital unconscious and be like "I AM DONATING MY DAUGHTER'S KIDNEY". The doctor isn't going be like "Hyuk, well sure, set her down and we'll cut her open." That's stupid. You'd look like a psychopath.
I think that's the part that makes the end of LOU1 a debate topic. Ellie didn't get any say in the outcome. It was either Joel or Marlene/Jerry who decided her fate.
If she had any direct input, there would be no question about the way it ended. It would either be "definitely good outcome" or "definitely bad outcome."
Ellie had an idea she was going to die...maybe not that it wouldn't work but she was willing to sacrifice herself. It is why she was so mad at Joel in the second and said her life would of meant something. If she agreed with Joel's decision she wouldn't of been as mad as she was
2020: Has so many doctors taking months and months trying to create a vaccine for covid
Fireflies: yeah one test subject is enough to reverse engineer a vaccine for the apocalypse
Lol u r right.
@@fzprof1756 yet thay forgot about anti fungi meditaction when the virus is a fungi
@@commanderleo It's a story-driven game, it does have to make sense. Plus, all the events leading up to the last scene showed how the fireflies aren't as reliable as they present themselves to be.
I mean, there's no way that no fungi exists in The Last of Us except a single zombie fungus.
It is very clearly modeled off of the world at the time.
@@justjoking5252 Well at that time and even to this day, fungi vaccines are yet to be a thing. I honestly don't think it's something that can be done overnight with one sample.
Came back here from the 2nd episode of the show. And they really really did show us that a vaccine is impossible. So, Joel made the right call, and Marlene was sending Ellie to her death
Thank you for finally putting into words why i thought killing the ONLY known fungi immune human to this virus was a terrible idea.
Im also pretty certain you find files, documents, and recordings throughout that mission that heavily imply that the fireflies don't think theyre gonna be able to figure anything out with the dissected material.
Yeah, literally after you drop her off you can find files from researchers there, stating that there had been cases of patients just like Ellie, where they got dissected in hopes to find a cure with them but that yielded no results. So it was literally a tried and true method, where you would have a very low chance to actually get a cure out of her sacrifice. That's a big nope for anyone really
@@zeroaxlkun what where I don't remember this. I remember x Ray's and stuff but no prior cases of immunity
@Lost yet Found I'm still puzzled cause most of the killing he does is in self defense.
@@tomascali1817 I remember that it was mentioned, but now I'm not really that sure about the specifics on it. I remember that sticking out to me tho, but sadly I don't have the game with me to check it again
@@zeroaxlkun There isn't any. There are recorders that indicate constant research failures, researchers that released infected test animals, that just gave up or decided to commit suicide, but the main one is the recorder that we now know belonged to Abby's Dad. In the first game, that recorder made it clear that Abby's dad was delusional, afflicted by a Messiah complex and about to murder Ellie as part of his fantasy of saving the human race, with zero chance of finding the cure after the murder.
As a Chemist & Microbiologist, I knew what Marlene said to Joel made no scientific sense, but appreciated the attention to detail by leaving the missable recorder in the hospital to confirm the doctor's own tests refute what he told Marlene and also reveal his insanity. You can listen to them all here: czcams.com/video/HNm4lGQMiKA/video.html
This isn’t even a theory, this is just a game fact.
wELCOME TO *GAME FACTS*
not even a game fact, just a fact
but thats just a fact, a game fact
MineAdventure Sorry “kid” they’re right, what he explained in the video if you even watched it was mostly based on actual science, considering that the The Last Of Us takes place in a post-apocalyptic world, science would have most likely become undeveloped, incomparable to today’s standards.
MineAdventure as a certified neurosurgeon everything MatPat said in this video is right, no matter what angle you try and tackle it, MatPat is right.
It is entirely possible that the fungal vaccine could be a bit of videogame science fiction. Same goes for the video about Ellie not actually being immune to the main Coryceps infection. Both very well thought out videos but I suspect Naughty Dog might have expected us to suspend disbelief a tad.
We shall not suspend disbelief after the events of part 2. Abby is as much of a moron as his dead father
Imagine if Ellie had watched this video at some point, her relationship with Joel would have been completely different :(
Bro what
@@apparition333skaters3 LMAO
TLOU 1 Ellie knew why Joel did what he did, and still accepted him ANYWAY.
TLOU2 Ellie was written to be a douchebag, so she sorta forgot everything they shared and who Joel was, and why he did what he did.
@@Steve-yn3cs tell me you lack common sense without telling me
@@Steve-yn3cs she didn’t even know what Joel did until the second game lol
Imagine if they said "cure" instead of "vaccine." That would've thrown this whole theory through a loop.
How do you cure a different being destroying your brain and deforming your body?
@@justbny9278 Probably just like rabies... You either get the treatment on time, right after getting bitten, or the infection sets in too fast and you die?
@@justbny9278 You can't cure it, but you can take preventative measures. If they had managed to get a sample of the less violent strain in Ellie and somehow grow it, they could take samples and infect more people who haven't already been infected with the mutated strain and make it so that the violent strain can't take over their bodies, much like Ellie.
That said, we still have no idea if it actually would be a very effective option though,for all we know, the mutated version could reduce lifespans to only 10 years, or could actually tranform you into an even deadlier version of the Cordyceps infected. The thing is still an infection feeding off Ellie to live after all and must be slowly consuming her body and may not show signs just yet.
how about a serum
Probably anyone who's infection hasn't caused any really bad physical damage like in the clickers where the fungus has burst through the skull should be able to be cured
I've literally been saying that Joel made the smartest choice
I doubt killing everybody to save one girl versus killing one girl to save everybody is the smartest choice...
I mean science aside, anyone who wouldn't do the same in his situation (or at least try) probably shouldn't be a parent
He was definitely justified and gained a new adopted daughter out of it lol
Afoo and is also a sociopath...
@@brother2865 didn't they just explain how killing her wouldn't save anyone?
Pretty sure the doctor wasn't a doctor for humans
Yeah, and he was an irrational idiot, just like his daughter Abby. Like Father like Daughter.
I mean he was working for literal terrorists …so you are not wrong..
this makes all the tears from the last of us 2 way more meaningful
“Vaccines are good. They save lives. Hundreds of thousands of lives.”
*Karen did not like that*
Her kids would have liked that if they weren’t dead
F
Bahaha
heh
@@realpadrino oof
Ah yes cordyceps… haven’t heard about those since matpat talked about toads being a parasitic plague on the mushroom kingdom.
DramaLlama 3434 yeah, exactly! I was thinking of another video when he was talking about cordyceps!
One of my favourite theories on this channel for sure
As much as I loved the ending of the first game, I knew what the doctors were doing was incredibly stupid, not to mention unethical.
Ethics kinda go out the window during the apocalypse. Stupidity still stands though
And knowing this video is 2 years old and the LOU series took that science into the first minutes of the show. Mind blowing
It's deep when even Pat pat says Joel didn't have to die.
Haven’t watched the video yet, but I think he’s talking about Ellie:
And Ellie didn’t have to lose her fingers
**pat pat**
Yeah he’s definitely talking about Ellie potentially dying for the cure.
@@marcbouchermusic *SPOILERS* even so the only reason Joel Died was because they told him that she was going to die. So if they hadn't told him that then the Abby wouldn't have gone and killed him
"If the lord gave me a second chance at that moment, I'd do it all over again."
*sobs* damn you
stop, i can't cry right now AGAIN
Rip
he really would
6:00
Hello Gordon!
I drink soda for lunch
I feel like the last of us 3 will be about dina actually telling others ellie is immune. And people will go after ellie. And jackson will be forced to relocate due to an outbreak. Tommy will die.
thats so boring. it should go like this. ellie meets someone that knows basically what this video was about and how the fireflies are wrong. she then trues to make a vaccine or someone tries to and learns joel was right the entire time
@@candiica7083 that sounds like a game i would enjoy
thats somehow a better story then the second, impressive.
I think if there’s a part 3 it should be a prequel about Tommy and Joel in those twenty years after the outbreak, and Hunter Joel and Tommy leaving to join the fireflies, and also see some more of Marlene, maybe there could be some kind of Easter egg with Ellie’s mother or something, and we can see how Joel met tess and became a smuggler.
@@wellno7179 this game should be called TLOU 0. Or TLOU Origins.
"But hey! thats just a theory! a game theory!"
The information: Am i a joke to you?
A theory is tested and proven and explains how things work. Has evidence.
A hypothesis is an untested idea. Does not have evidence.
A theory is not tested or proven, it is an educated guess put forward to explain phenomena that we see around us if a theory is proven, it's not a theory, its a fact. String theory is a theory in quantum mechanics to explain phenomena that we cannot explain otherwise, that doesn't mean its true, but its the best guess we can make given the evidence, that's why theory is the best word for this channel, ideas and educated guesses aren't proven, but are supported by in-game evidence.
Maybe in the the last of us universe it could work, it depends on what the creator says
I think mat is just saying that because he doesn’t want in trouble with game devs if his theories aren’t true
Von Speedwagon it’s more of a catchy slogan than anything true, if creators cared about factual accuracy fanfiction wouldn’t exist
"Vaccines wiped them out."
Me: But everything changed when the Anti-vaxxers attacked.
Theory BREAK! True
Lookup "vaxxed tv" on youtube.
@Shabaka Smkss For COVID19, we don't have a vaccine, but for measles and polio we do, and those are the two up there, don't need to mention smallpox, as it's 100% eradicated with the only virus particles left, are in labs.
You know some people are just against certain vaccines, and some wonder are we just over doing it, these are legitimate question, but no continue put absurd amount of stuff in you body and kids body without question. That’s what a loving parent does.
@@MrSophire We're not "overdoing" anything and if you happen to have an allergy to the stuff in side a vaccine you rely on other people vaccinating. There is no reason to advocate for not vaccinating
I love how you use logic and science for these it makes me fell better about the game I finished both a couple of days ago and it made me Sad but now I’m a little better thanks
Re-watching this as the first episode of the TV show adaptation premiered.
Interesting that the scientist at the beginning states that there is NO WAY to create a vaccine or cure for the fungal infection. Apparently, this lines up with research by Dr Neil A R Gow, (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_A._R._Gow ) who is an expert on the subject. So, yeah, this does support Joel making the correct choice...just...not exactly on purpose. Sorta.
Joels choice did mean something though. Saving Ellie from idiots who don't know what they're doing is still saving Ellie, it's just not sacrificing anything to do it.
I mean, there is a USA goverment remnant state that HAS resources and possibly contact with other goverments / goverment remnants.
liker 3000 maybe, but do you think that the fireflies are going to corporate with them after everything that they’ve done to each other. I’ve sympathized with Marlene after seeing her disapproval for killing Ellie in part 2 but I know that she would rather die than corporate with the FEDRA in any way, even if it was for Ellie and if by any miracle she does, there is no way the rest of the fireflies would fall in line with her as it would just contradict a huge part of the cause they were fighting for.
@@ericpantoja3264 to make matters worse the government was already corrupt. How much you want to bet that they would basically use the Cure as leverage in order to get things out of other survivors? Which would inevitably start yet another large-scale War that ends with more human beings dying. No matter how you slice it the situation just gets worse and worse
It was selfish and he doomed humanity. The only reason people like him (including me) is because we played a while game with him and Ellie surviving together yet (spoiler) his death in part 2 made a lot of sense and if we didn’t know Joel’s story you kinda would want to see him die but I was a little disappointed you couldn’t avenge his death against Abby because she deserved to die as much as Joel judging by the reason she killed Joel.
@@lukedelcube7175 I mean, there were 3 choices , really :
-Give her to a band of idiots who dont know what they are doing
- keep her
-give her to... The Goverment. I mean , it has the resources , the manpower , and is NOT A BUNCH OF MANIACS HIDING IN A HOSPITAL!
Yeah when Marlene said it was only a vaccine I was like “that doesn’t make you immune, it just means that you might be infected, or you might fight it off. It isn’t a cure”.
It's really unlikely to lose to an infection you have been vaccinated against if you have a healthy immune system, unless the infection already comes in droves, like if you were in a room full of spores for example.
@@TeleportRush You are underestimating viruses.
@@Sesshomaru474 its better than not having the vaccine
Sure Ellie is immune to the spores... She isn't immune to being torn apart by the infected. That's why a vaccine or cure is almost laughable, sure you can create a pocket of immune people, but against hordes of rabid humans the rabid humans will win out. Walled settlements would work better than anything else, in the end time would lower the numbers of infected, its another really dumb thing in TLOU2 the infected don't have a lifespan, they don't have any standard biological limiting factors like a need for food or light. A human body requires a lot of energy to keep it up and moving, even if the infection was able to make the body dormant the muscles would atrophy over time, and bones would become weak. What are the infected eating to keep them going in isolated areas and sealed structures? While we are at it, its a fungus, fungal spores would last months not years and definitely not decades.
@@pixiniarts I'm pretty sure there's a point where it's explained that even the infected have a determined "active period" after which they'll go into some sort of standby/dormant mode by fusing with a wall in order to produce more spores.
W- that explaination of vaccines was so good. I live in a country where alot of people are Anti-vacc beacause of the small fevers they can cause. This explaination lays it out so well.
wouldn't the best option for humanity be for Ellie to have as many kids as possible to try to create more who are immune so that humans can evolve to be protected?
It would be even better if she wasn't the only immune person we know of but this method would take extremely long and child mortality is probably way higher in this world because of the lack of resources
"The fireflies wants to capture Ellie the ONLY human that seems to be immune"
Joel: Dozens more actually.
Joel was lying...
Paola V no lol in hospital section there’s a collectible note that says they had dozen more people. Don’t know why the 2nd game ignores it though
@@urmomscute no there aren't any other immune people as far as we know, the note refers to tests done on regular infected people. Saw a post on reddit saying the exact same thing and someone linked the note in question that clearly says that the docs have "never seen something like this before".
@@urmomscute the other subjects were infected people. They state that Ellie was the only inmune person they had found and how thay may change everything. Nothing means it would actually lead to a cure but there was a chance.
Sexy boy Purp You’re actually clueless. By that standard the first game ignores that. Since y’know, in the first game Ellie is upset that Joel is lying to her. It even ends with her being lied to. Did you like play it or..?
If I remember right there was a note in the Firefly hospital that stated that Ellie was not the first immunity they found and that operating on (killing) those people did nothing.
That made me feel better about the ending
I needed this thx man
They experimented on infected however Ellie's case was an anomaly that they needed to reproduce. Hence the surgery. She's the only one to show immunity which was actually some mutation of the fungus into a less lethal infection in her brain.
According to this: thelastofus.fandom.com/wiki/Surgeon%27s_Recorder
you do not remember correctly. Fireflies had only experimented on infected before, Ellie’s immunity and mutation is the first they had seen.
@@luckygnome2746 "We must find a way to replicate this state under laboratory conditions. We're about to hit a milestone in human history equal to the discovery of penicillin. After years of wandering in circles, we're about to come home, make a difference, and bring the human race back into control of its own destiny. All of our sacrifices and the hundreds of men and women who've bled for this cause, or worse, will not be in vain. "
Ahh but then some dude killed everyone at the hospital and doomed humanity. Whups!
ellie didnt even give her consent
Can you do one on the show sir?
He did it on film theory
Why does Megalovania fit so well??
probably same tempo or something like that
Its megalovania
Ellie had a bad time
@GalacticHypernova True that.
@GalacticHypernova Because 2020 was a bad time.
Doctors: Hey, we finally made a vaccine to that fungal virus!
Clicker: **rips people to shreds**
Everyone else: I didn't think about that
Imagine trying to vaccinate a bloater, that needle wont even work against its armor
Before the tv series came out I rewatched The Last of Us part 1, and maybe due to the exposition to some of the theories behind the corona, pandemic etc. we experienced (as a society) I came to the same conclusion as this video. Great job as always!
solution create a fast acting cancer for cordyceps by using a small radioactive particle
Matpat: Explains vaccines and how they help.
Everybody: Well boys, we did it. Anti-vaxers are no more.
*epic gamer moment*
Karen: Not if I have anything to say about it, AND I DO!!!
Me: Little Timmy! GET DOWN!!!
Thing about Vacs and anti.vaxers is not that they think they don't work. Thing is that many vacs include MCR-5 and aluminum particles, which does not contribute to how the vac works but gives the vac a longer shelf life. MCR-5 affects our DNA and has a chance to cause cancer and the aluminum particles attack the nervous system and cannot be removed from the body. Aluminum particles in the nervous system has been linked to deseases such as parkinsons, epilepsy, and is suspected to be a possible cause of SCD.
So you really trust that someone dumb enough to think not vaccinating their child would be smart enough. To actually listen to why it's a good idea to do so?
although there ae like 1 milleon bideos of that
What i learned:
-a type of organism
-doomguy is a vaccine
-last of us is last of 2020
Cacopog
Doomguy is humanity’s demon vaccine
Thank you for this. In this video you mentioned EVERY SINGLE thing I was pointing out in several discussions with friends or people via the internet for so long ... :D Still love this game and loved your video about it!
the same thing happens in Halo, where Sargent Johnson is immune to the flood and the master chief is given the option to tell the UNSC and ONI but chooses not to because after talking to cortana about it come up with how likely a cure or vaccine would be made and comes to the conclusion that he would be more useful as a soldier then being killed, and also the idea of being conscious during a "zombie" infection also happens in halo in the book the Fall of Reach
The ending to The Last of Us 2 is like if Ganondorf kills Zelda in the beginning of the game, then Link in his final confrontation against Ganondorf decides to go home and play his ocarina, instead of killing him.
PERFECT LMAO
Bravo.
Saw this comment on a ign video. Nice copy and paste
So, we meet again
And then realizing that the ocarina isn't home anymore, yeah
me: searches up "what is mat pats real name"
google: "matthew patthew"
Google is wrong. It's Matrick Patthew.
@@lego_the_cat lol
or its matrick patrick
Matu Patlu
@@luciusrex8604 LOL
I like to think the creators saw this theory and decided to swap out "vaccine" to "cure" in response
Late to the party but yeah, when I heard what the Firefly's 'brilliant plan' was, I had to think to myself, "Good grief, are these doctors the same ones from 12 Monkeys?"
I also feel Marlene was using Ellie as a scapegoat because if you read and listen to all to her journals and voice memos in the hospital, you can see that she was about to face mutiny from her followers. They were starting to question her leadership and she felt she needed to do something. I feel this was partly her wanting to save her own life. Her fellow Fireflys might have killed her if they learned that all they had been through had been for nothing. If the procedure went without a hitch and Ellie died but the vaccine treatment was a failure anyways, Marlene would have gotten off scott-free from responsibility.
dog
dog
Mat: Joels was right to save ellie
Abby: So no golf?
Yep no golf
Noooo, Abby. Go home.
too soon
Just finished watching season 1 of the HBO adaptation, and I haven't played the game. This may be the reason why the ending didn't do it for me. Ellie didn't have to die.
Love the effective and graphics you put together, very entertaining video.