Overrated Or Underrated? | We Rate The Biggest Trends In MTB
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- čas přidán 2. 06. 2024
- The world of mountain biking has always been full of quirky trends. Some have stood the test of time and stuck around, some have not been so lucky! Join Neil Donoghue as he enlists the help of Anna Cupillo and Martyn Ashton to discuss if some of the recent mountain bike trends are overrated or underrated.
⏱ Timestamps ⏱
00:00 - Intro
00:14 - High Pivot Bikes
02:41 - Super Enduro Bikes
04:17 - Downcountry Bikes
05:55 - Electric Gears
08:57 - Mixed Wheel size
11:07 - Lugged Carbon Frames
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What I think I liked the most was Anna, Martyn and Neil together. This combo all most equals a Doddy in there. Nice! - M
An Atherton trail hardtail is my ultimate dream bike.... and hardtails, hardtails are underrated.
They're definitely not underrated... They're just inferior
YALL REALLY SHOULD DO MORE SHOWS TOGETHER. This was a great episode seeing the three of you debating.
Great to hear! Thanks for the feedback 🤘
So, regarding lugged carbon frames: Whether it’s any good or not aside, I recently found a Giant Cadex MTB frame from the late 1980s, in a trash bin. I’m and old guy of 69 years and have been an avid cyclist since I was 15 and a mountain bike rider since I was 30, no competitive riding, just fitness and recreational. The Cadex, when I was much younger, was a very cool thing and something I lusted after but, raising three kids on one income, was not obtainable. Anyway, my found Cadex has turned into a Frankenbike of the gravel variety and with it’s aluminum lugs and carbon tubes just pleases the heck out out of me visually. It’s built up with 700c wheels, drop bars, XT 3X drive train and is the best bash around town bike that I’ve ever had. Lugged. Carbon frames are definitely under rated, and totally cool.
Nice! Much better use for it than the bin 🔥
I don't think I need another gizmo to charge in my life, so I'm sticking to cable actuated gears for the near future. And I also bought a 100 pack of gear cables not so long ago, so there's that...
I’m on the edge. On one hand mountain bikes, like SUV’s/cars/trucks, are advancing. So why should we be stuck in the dark ages. However on the other hand nothing wrong with mechanical shifting which would require much less to repair and troubleshooting.
That Pivot DH bike is one of my favorite looking bikes I've ever seen. I think it's absolutely gorgeous.
Lugged feels right as I like the "build a bike on demand" rather than build millions and hope to sell. Better for rider and planet.
Couldn't agree more! 🌎
I love these discussions, and would love to see more of this. However i am offended by tha fact that there was an Orbea Occam shown when "downcountry" was discussed. That is a proper trailbike. Period.
They are sponsored by orbea so they have to include them....but where's the orbea dh bike
So Mr Ashton is actually the only one in the GMBN band to ride a real mulet short at the front and long at the back.
I've had several motorcycles like this....I can't recommend it.
Guess you're right yeah! 😅
I love my mixed wheel. Hammers like a 29er and has all the feel of a 27.5 on the turns but with more stability. Great for steep tech.
damn, that adaptive bike is so sick, martyn. really great to see a clip of you shredding. legend!
Great segment; very interesting to hear your opinions on these features!
Great discussion. I had a Giant CFM 3 many years ago. That had alloy lugs. Carbon fiber main tubes and kevlar seat and chain stays. It's funny how things go full circle.
People talk about high pivot axle path alot but the thing alot of people are missing with High Pivot is the idler allows you to much better control anti squat as non idler bikes have to be optomised around a chosen chainring size and then people change chainring and mess up what the designers intended, an idler doesn't have this issue, you can run any chainring size you want without affecting anti-squat.
I bought a "downcountry" bike for my wife as it check every box, it's comfortable, climbs great, has a really nice standover height, and has plenty of suspension for the trails she likes to ride. Wireless is fine on a new purchase/build, or for a pro racer but for the average rider it wouldn't be much of an upgrade at all over a good drivetrain.
you mean a trail bike. "Downcountry" term is another overrated aspect of mtb
@@MTBr-of-SoCal What is sold today with the label Trailbike is definitely different compared to a „downcountry“. Standard for trailbikes is currently 150 mm travel and in general those would be sold as Enduro Bikes some years ago.
@@GrmlMaster100% agree that standards change and get refined over various iterations. But when we're talking about a "downcountry" bike, we're literally talking about simply swapping out components that have very minute differences. That's like if I decided to toss on a luggage rack on the back of my XC bike. Somehow it now becomes a "XCargo" bike, or "XVenture" bike (you heard it from me first) and people will swear it's a whole new category of bikes. Absolutely silly.
@@MTBr-of-SoCal That may be true for swapping stems and bars but stops at (little) slacker geometry or partly even wider tires. my old cross county bike does not takes wider than 2.25.
If I did not swap to a „Light E-Bike“ another fancy new category, I would for sure be interested in a „Downcountry“-bike that I am able to ride all day without neck problems and frequent flats.
If I can search for downcounty bike (or light E-Bikes as another example) instead of sifting through all XC bikes and comparing geometry-tables and and technical-specs, I am all for it.
@@GrmlMaster I think the geo is far more a grey area. Let's take the head angle for example...
XC: 67 to 73 degrees
Trail: 65 and 67
"Downcountry": 65 - 67.5
Based on those numbers, downcountry is basically trail bikes. Again, it's swapping components out and you have a whole new category lol.
A pedalable DH bike is what many enduro bikes are becoming. Put even EWS/EDR, they're not pedalling switchbacks, but fireroads... so basically its a DH bike with a super steep seat tube and a full range 1x12 drivetrain.
Finally a reasonable opinion, totally agree, if you watch an enduro race, is dh 90% with short flats, so the "enduro" title is wrong.
DH bikes pedal fine, they have anti squat. But not being able to run a dropper and most don't have fork lockouts
We think it's arguably important to remember that a lot of the direction of Enduro over the years is driven by athlete feedback... so that's probably why we've seen a reduction in 'mid-race' mega-climbs and enormous multi days in the saddle, because the athletes didn't like doing them!
Enduro racing is really a multi-stage DH race, on slightly less capable bikes, where you have to pedal up fire roads, cat trails to get between... I totally get the EWS/EDR purpose, its awesome, but unless you are racing that category, spend that amount of time in the Park or shuttle... I feel there are more 'cons' to the DH side of Enduro bikes (i.e. 180/180s) than the aggressive side of trail or the trail side of enduro (i.e. 150/140)@@gmbn
I feel that regardless of how much anti-squat, that slacked out of geo, lenth, mullet, and high piviot - as much as it helps you down, takes away as much from what gets you to the downs, if you aren't just climbing up fire roads
Awesome show! 🙌 About the electric gears, not so sure. I've got Shimano XTR and it's proper! 👌
I ride Deore which is fine but I rode an XTR bike the other day and it was sweet. Felt very refined and precise.
Has Anna looked at prices at all, even several years ago the axs upgrade kits were $600, $800, $1000 for GX, X01 and XX1. Also, some of the worthwhile of it depend on your bike, if you have a bike that is super easy to re cable then it might not be as worthwhile even if it does shift better, as if you have a bike that is a nightmare to re cable.
I live in Florida and I bought a XC bike and turned it into a “down country” bike, or “trail country” as I like to call it, and it’s the perfect bike for the trails near me.
Hardtail……I for one coming from a endruro FS to a HT……HT def under rated loving my Trek Roscoe 7 HT
Lugs and tubes 🔥🔥🔥
In some future bike, I'd love to have that new SRAM derailleur with the new idea for how it mounts to the frame
Downcountry, me and a friend talked about this and I agree with Martin, the name is stupid, we called it a cross trail, as its not a trail bike, nore a xc bike it's in-between with the geo, travel and tyres
@GMBN speaking of tech reviews, can we get a video on adaptive MTB tech? Thankfully I don't need it but as an engineer I love seeing the ingenuity put into finding solutions for working around someones bodily peculiarities. Maybe a rundown of the history and such? Different power and control options?
Edit: If you've made a video like that already, I apologise, but I couldn't find it in the massive backlog if videos.
CONGRATS!! You've finally stumbled onto the only benefit plastic (i,e., 'carbon') frames have!
There's a video of Lewis Buchanan racing with his new Trek Slash with high pivot. The chain just wouldn't stay on.
And then there is Nico Lamm who race World Cup DH on his Kaven VHP18 with a DH fork on it. So a slightly modified high pivot enduro bike and no problems with the chain. So it's not a high pivot issue. It's a design issue.
I like electronic gearing .. only the sram kind but the price is too high and no one really says how long the batteries last and how long to fully charge. I love tech but i also love analog components. Forget self shifting gears but i really would like to see wireless brakes introduced. Cables and wires are so 1980's 😅
Eletronic gears are overrated IMO. It's not that I don't like it - but it doesn't really give me any advantages compared to medium level mechanical rear mech. Much of the shifting performance is in the cassette IMO. Particularly when you get a bit of mileage on it.
On the other hand, as a racer traveling for races and other excursions, it is just a hassle to have to remember charging batteries. The cabel is just there, and works... and it's lighter and cheaper.
DC bikes are underrated IMO. Or as Martyn says: the name is ridiculous and overrated - the bikes are great :)
My 2012 specialized status 1 has been transformed now I've made it a mullet. It rides amazing.
I just made the move to electronic shifting on my MTB and if you do the GX upgrade instead of a full groupset you can get in for easily under $1k. I don't see the point in buying a full groupset at all and never have, mostly because no single manufacturer makes the best option for all parts a groupset holds.
Great conversation.. I love my 5010 mullet
Minaars on full 29er... not top 10 this year I suppose but hes still up there. Hes a big guy though, so supports your 6 foot theory there!
True! Taller riders can definitely reap the benefits
@@gmbn Oh and how could I forget, also last week's winner, Oisin O Callaghan is on a full 29er.
one of my hacks is using crc exoff degreaser for cleaning my bike and a straw cleaner old toothbrushes work well too
Very interesting content but the camera zooming in and around is something I can definitely do without. Not a fan.
The Trek 8700 was one of the first carbon bikes. It was lugged.
Lugged Frames... I had a Raleigh Dynatech in the mid 80s, that was Steel corners and Alu tubes!!
Really wished I still had it!!... even though I think I know where it is!
What are you waiting for then!? Dig it out and get it going! Send us a picture to the bike vault when you do 😉
I still think mullet bike setup is the most underrated thing ever
My AXS bends my derailleur hanger if the terrain is too rough, gonna go back to wired.
Mullet rules in DH, enduro and e-bike.
105 di2 is not a few hundred quid its rrp is 1700 and about 1100 on sale
After watching Lewis Buchanans newest video idk about high pivot bikes 😬
I ripped the headtube off a GT STS! To be fair GT warranted it and the replacement was bulletproof.
Would it have the same feel if you put a 26in on a 27-1/2 bike
Awesome content but not a huge fan of second camera offering the floaty look (sorry).
Will feed it back to the creators! 🤘
how bou 4devs short cranks. will the major brand follow through with 145-155mm crank lengths? plus 165mm on Shimnano is like 1 in a million to find.
Neil, I’ve been riding a medium frame with 27.5. It was my first mtb and planning a new bike this year. I find 29ers just a big high as well. I am 5’9. What size frame do you ride?
I'm not Neil, but I'm also 5'9 (or 175 cm as we Europeans say) and I also ride frames size M. I currently ride a Scott Aspect 730, which is also a 27,5 inch hardtail bike.
I have some older 26 inch bikes too, one of them is a more classic GT Avalanche 3.0 Disc which is probably 15 years old now, and this is a bike with an L frame. I got it used and restored it, and I can still ride it but it already feels a little bit big. The M frame of the Aspect feels like it suits better.
However if you now plan to get a new bike there's not that much choice any more to get a 27,5er, they have become less common the last years and most models are offered in 29 inch now.
Mixed wheel size - under rated, I’m 5’9” but have short legs for my height (30” inseam in socks), a 29 rear wheel is just too inhibitive for me when moving around the bike, which is why I ride a 27.5 Whyte T130c which I’ve mulleted with 29er fork and front wheel (noting the same front triangle was used on the T120 29er so it’s designed to take it).
Sounds like your set up is spot on for what you're after now! Nice work 👍
High pivot but only with a jack shaft the rest of those 5 cogers are a chain throwing nightmare check Lewis Buchanan trek slash vlog
I think high pivot bikes are probably going to stick around in hard core DH and enduro racing, but I think they're overrated (and over-expensive) for the average punter. Just the chainline is so overcomplicated with so many points of failure it's not worth the tradeoff imho if you don't have a dedicated team mechanic to fiddle and massage the bike between runs.
Someone mentioned Anna and Neko in the Frameworks episode, and now I can’t keep hearing evidence! 1:45 😉
Lugged frames are pretty kool but its the epoxy or whatever they are using to bond them thats more the concern! Are they heat proof and waterproof maybe for now but after a year or so in scorching sun the bond will become brittle and fail just wait and see! As working with this type of thing amd 3D printing there's a process of care needed for these types of bonds!
Mullets are awesome even for trail riding
@what results, jackson goldstone tearing the field apart in his first year at the elites, on a v10? If anything the results show that hpp bikes don’t necessarily lead to more victories.
Doesn't it depend on the trails? As much as i know there are also trails where EWS Pros's use Superenduro Bikes.
I have to say that on the electronic gears, I'm not a fan. Y'all talked about he price being a big factor, but I think that has nothing to do with it. The fact that you have to rely on electronics and battery charge for something so basic as a bicycle to function properly is ridiculous. Oops, forgot to charge my derailleur. Now halfway out in the sticks you're stuck with whatever gear you last were in. Oops, your dropper post is stuck at whatever you just had it at. What's next, wireless brakes were once the battery runs out now you have no brakes on the trail either? Worse than brake fade when barreling downhill.... Stupid IMHO. There is literally NOTHING wrong with cables and I will die on this hill.
The only exceptions I see are maybe wireless rear on brake stunt bikes so they can do bar spins without even needing a gyro on the head tube/fork stem and dedicated race bikes where you would have a team there with you and extra battery packs or whatever, as well as crew members making sure you were charged up before your event, and then you are not likely using it all day long out in the middle of nowhere, but rather in an event where they're are event staff and team members throughout. I think if neither of those things are your situation, theyre just kinda dumb. Literally nothing wrong with cables, and theyll never leave tou high and dry, ever. Not unless you neglect it and leave it outdoors 24/7 in the weather to rust and dry rot the sleeves. I guess the only negative otherwise two cables would be if you're in extremely tight wooded areas wirh lots of extraneous branches reaching at you that could grab the cables, or if you fall, it could snag on stuff and yank em... That's only if you crash tho... Which damages ensue... However you could damage an electronic shifter or derailleur, including just the electrical connections within or just the battery, where it simply won't function anymore, whereas with a cable, you may be able to adjust it's still there on the trail in a couple minutes and be on your way again.
Electronics on bikes: Way WAY overrated!
What’s the difference between Superenduro and Downduro? @gmbn
A Super Enduro bike is a big travel Enduro bike like the Nukeproof Giga. Downduro is an Enduro bike that usually has a Triple Clamp Fork fitted, like the Giant Reign SX. 🤙🧐
Old GX AXS is around £300/400 now, not 1K!🤷🏼♂️
Thought the exact same. I paid £250 on sale for GX AXS and absolutely love it on my Downcountry bike. (Martin would not be happy with me)
Electronic shifting might be great, but like so many things in cycling these days, it is grossly overpriced. I'm not racing, I don't need it. Nice to have? Maybe, but I really don't want to have to charge my derailleur. Overrated.
High pivot bikes? Ugly AF, and overly complicated. Until someone smooths out the engineering and can clean up the look, overrated.
Downcountrty bikes? Now that's over-segmenting the bike market. Put some beefier tires on an XC, or faster tires on a trail and have at 'er. Overrated.
Sorry, I'm an old grognard who spent 20+ years riding fully rigid on 26" wheels in the Canadian Rockies. I may be a tad grumpy.
The biggest trend are 26" bikes againe😍
For children
@@Pienimusta xD i ride my 12years old bike Stil i love it 3x10 speed fit 4 me the best i am 1.93m tall i had 27,5 and 29"bike i cell it it not fitting me is to big
@SolidxSnakexDuke I ride , sometimes I add, my old haro extreme ex mtb. 3x 8 . 1997. True I've upgraded it alot, well, basically just frame and gears original, but a rock solid frame. It's 26" too.
ATM tho I'm using an ebike more due to injury
Seriously I rode my 2013 26" Devinci Dexter back to back against a 2023 29" Canyon Lux Trail. My Devinci felt just as fast.
Most 'New' tech we've already had; it arrived for a reason, and disappeared for one as well.
Anna what electronic group set costs of few hundred quid ? LOL because you must have been joking . Loved the video really interesting, lugged carbon frames look fantastic Pivot and Atherton bikes should be the future
SRAM AXS Eagle Upgrade kit is like 350€, a GX eagle cassette is around a 100€ a GX eagle chain is like 20€. A GX crank set is around 100€ as well.
The sponsored group sets must be that cheap
Down country bikes are just trail bikes with an xc leaning build kit.
Electronic shifting is overrated and overpriced. I’m not a retro grouch, I run GRX Di2 on my gravel bike. It’s great but it did brick right out of the box and was a pain to get running again, it’s been smooth sailing since. But is it really worth the price? Probably not. I’m building up a new MTB and the SRAM AXS prices are shocking, especially when you consider just how much cheaper an analog Shimano XT set up is (and the XT delivers great shifting).
Mullet is completely overrated. Hated my status 160. Slower, skittish rear end, climbs horribly.
Idk why but my local ads are filled with Forbidden dreadnoughts.
I can only assume they're too expensive to pay for 😂 but yeah probably overrated
PS. Your opinion is your own and it means eff all really to everyone else here! 🤣🤣
lugs and tubes is nothing new, neither over nor underrated
had a friend in the late 90s break his steering tube of the bike with carbon tubes in the snow with -10 degrees...
maybe the glue at the time was not right, maybe it was aluminium lugs, or just bad luck and cold temperature....
the possibility to 3d print lugs is awesome and saves time...
but the machinery is still quite expensive and so are the pivot prototypes
love it, but still you need a lot of resources to do it (right) and not everybody has them
Lugged bikes. Underated for prototyping. Over rated for production. Pivot have already said NO. Too expensive and too time consuming to produce the way they are.
Mixed Wheel Size. *Over-rated* - I hate it. Its looks daft too. Sorry to disagree.
The problem is all the tester being dwarfs. At 6'5" every word about Mullet or MX is lost time for me. Wake me up when you discuss 32-29ers.
To put it more kindly: I am sure my next bike will be an EMTB and I am looking only into full 29ers with standard cable routing.
Unfortunately there's always various aspects of ergonomics that exclude folk that are too tall and too short. We hope you get your 32 inch mixed wheel sometime soon! That would be sick
super enduro should just be park bikes, down country is just a XC of the old days its just a cross country bike
Underated... Having differing opinions and being civil about it.
Well..Neko made his bike as high i of a pivot he could - without having to run an idler.
All trends are marketing driven and are overrated as a result. People want/need progress, not gimmicks
I think all of these things are under/over rated based on where you ride.🤷♂️
Did she just call modern 105 "bottom level"?
my dream dream dream bike
Sorry no. Not all XC bikes makes you hunched over. XC bikes come in variety of ranges, just like Trail bikes. Dunno why the freaking term "downcountry" need to even exist! It's a super niche of either a XC or trail rig.
Xc sucks
I swear this video come out once a month lol..
Those new camera angles are annoying….
Electronics 100% overrated.
sram =crap= Overrated
Down country is a gay term...
Crosstrail makes WAY more sence..
What’s with the drunk camera man. Making me sea sick. 🤢
you guys miss the point of some of this stuff. who cares what your make believe rating is, the simple fact is that these hybrid bikes serve a purpose for the riders that ride them.
and you guys put too much into the way a bike looks. looks matter, but they should never stifle technological advancement.