Machinist Trick to NOT Break Tools
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- čas přidán 13. 10. 2023
- GENIUS CNC machining trick that all machinists can use to prevent breaking tools in dynamic milling toolpaths using Mastercam on the DN Solutions BVM 5700
#cncmachine #machining #engineering - Věda a technologie
I have nothing to do with this industry. Why I watch this shit is beyond me.
But now I know I can either do this or "face mill"? It.
I feel smarter and that's all that matters.
Edit: gave myself a thumbs up to show support.
Yes, but taking off an inch of material with a face mill either takes a long time or is very violent on inserts. Using an end mill is much quicker.
You can use the end mill to get close to your finish size, then face mill a small cut (.010”-.020”) to create a nice smooth finish
I'm not into cars... but I know every last peice of a rotary engine and how they go together 😂
@@Tor_sion congratulation on missing the point.
really the best way to do this is buy the correct sized stock and not waste a good 60 bucks of aluminum, buy the proper size, face it and true up the sides
@@chadmaurer4002 there wasn't a point. Titans are fixing non-existing issue.
Perfect trick if your job is to make aluminium shavings out of aluminium blocks.
my thoughts exactly lol
pfftt yea i was thinking the same thing like what tf is he making
Tell me U dont know anything about mashining, without saying it....
@@yannickoepcke1568mashining what, potatoes?
@@yannickoepcke1568educate us, please
Good trick but I prefer band saw for that big part removal. Than I face mill it. 😊
A man of culture
Yes, yes.
I mean... it would make sense, right? Now you have a big piece of metal to use instead of shavings
😂😂😂 not fast nor accurate or cheaper
I was thinking the same thing brother. Most people will just start off with a smaller billet 😜
I just witnessed a removal of a large piece of metal, for no reason. Awesome technic.
to be fair thats usually how demonstrations work XD
well the reason is to show how to do things correctly XD
”you get no points thank you for playing”
@@Peron1-MC If he machined a real part it would be obvious why this trick is not very practical most of the time. Imagine doing that for every face of the part in question. That's so much unnecessary fiddling that it defeats the whole purpose.
@@LostOnceLefthanded ”most of the time” are the key words. this is nothing compaired to a real production run. you either start off with a cast part and mill it from there or you start from a solid block of (often aluminium) and remove everything that isnt the finished parts. the scraps are 100% recyclable in the case of aluminium being the metal being milled. this is very much a thing you could come across in production. just as an example there are companies that make cnc rims for cars starting from a solid block. like 80-90% percent is wasted and recycled.
@@NikosKrepeniotis wow you got me. i dont know how i will survive this burn. XD
@@Peron1-MC I'll take your word for it. I don't do this for work even if i have the basic training for it.
Customer: why is my part $15,000?
Shop: machine time and materials
Meanwhile me, an intellectual: “why don’t you just cut this down to size?”
OR, cut the part if you only need half
Honestly tho, so much waste of time, money, and metal
(sigh) It's illustrating a principle. This face might be on a large component with other upstanding features around it.
I get why people want to dump on this channel because much of what they feature is empty promotional fluff, but this for once is worthwhile, because apart from the specific fix, it illustrates a broadly applicable problem solving technique. (using several of the usual "substitute, combine, adapt, magnify/minimise, put to other uses, eliminate, reverse" categories)
@@Gottenhimfella hey redditor, the point is null and void you can’t provide practical examples. this is why we hate fabrication down in engineering
@@clipso9061 "This face might be on a large component with other upstanding features around it." Were you too cool for school, or is there another reason for your seemingly impaired comprehension skills?
@clipso9061 alright, here's one. I work in an aerospace shop. This means LOTS of massive cavities needing to be machined out, contributing to a massive amount of total time. You can't face it, you can't bandsaw it, you need a smaller tool than a 2" shell mill for this type of operation. This is precisely one of the solutions. When your finished part is 10% of the minimum stock box's weight, you take a lot of time in cavities.
OR... use a facemill to face mill parts. 👍
that would be too easy
Drill a hole, plunge an end mill, work from the inside out.. or you can justify the paycheck of the guy who writes the code
Too fast and easy
The metal removal rate is faster with endmills these days…
@@mikefresca2758 but then it needs to be a flat bpttom endmill or your flutes will get destroyed
guys, of course this is not the best way to do this specific operation.
It's meant to teach a way to avoid creating a single pin sticking out of a part that would be dangerous/time consuming to remove
Dangerous/time-consuming? Not completely fucking up your project?
@@Noconstitutionfordemocrats1 danger... of completely fucking up your project, yes
As a beginner, having a less simplified application would be massive though. I came into it with all the wrong assumptions about what we were even trying to accomplish
@@MischaKavin did you feel this way even with the longer video?
@@alessandropolo7257 I forget that you can click through shorts tbh. I mostly do it by accident.
The full vid made it clearer that it was an exercise, but without a deep pocket or something, I started out assuming that pin at the centre was an intended feature on the finished part. It's an interesting demo now that I understand it, and it got me thinking about order of operations, but I don't know when I would need to be hogging off the entire side of a part that deep, in one pass, right up to the shank of the cutter.
The center pillar of death has gotten us all. Much love
FREE 🇵🇸
If you know you know 😂
@@fahd122. the Philistines are the invaders in the Jewish homeland. Complaining that Israel is fighting back is like people getting outraged that the US fought back against the Japanese after Pearl Harbor
Can you help me understand what the problem is? The end result looks the same to me. My best guess is that the snapping pillar causes a gouge in the surface.
@@CNNBlackmailSupportthe problem is the tall slug that gets smaller and smaller the closer you get to the centre of the toolpath… at which point it becomes so thin that it can’t withstand the force from the cutter. And when it snaps it can either break the cutter, pull it out the holder slightly, or as you suggested; ding the surface. I just slow the feed down when starts whining. I’ve had a few tool break when left with a rectangular slug, so leave a bigger boundary then tram it off with a face mill/ end mill. This video is a useful too that I for one will try.
It makes me cry a little when I see that much material being milled away because of how much steel and aluminum cost. 😢
Agreed this boiled my blood to see the waste. Seems like a tip to get you fired.
Aluminum and steel are both completely recyclable, so if they do recycle it would be fine.
@counterscam6547 and how much energy is required to gather sort, clean and melt the scrap into a new form? Recycling is not like respawning in a video game. It comes at a cost. That type of attitude towards Recycling is the reason people believe electric vehicles are a magic bullet.
Treat everything you own like it's the last one you will ever have, you'd be amazed how much less you consume/waste.
@@rage2476recycling metal is actually very good but reducing waste is still better
It can be melted down. Not like it just gets thrown away
Neat solution. Not very common to just mill off this much excess material
I wonder if it's for deep pockets that is needed for. Still would get a flat bottom drill and leave around .025 thou above and quick helical mill to rough depth and start hogging out material.
@@squatchhammer7215what are either of you talking about this is an exaggerated demo. You'd never mill 2 inches off of an entire face like this.
@@babygorilla4233 Ah you just committed the ultimate dummy move. You NEVER KNOW WHEN YOU WILL NEED TO.
@@babygorilla4233maybe not on the first side setup of a part. But definitely for a second side setup where you have the excess stock you would have used for work holding (all depends on the size of the part of course).
"But take it to the saw"....right, assuming you have a saw big enough to cut your excess stock, now you are paying someone to run a different machine (that may already be in use, or could be used by someone else), and increasing the number of times the part is handled, which is never a good thing.
And this High Efficiency Machining technique utilizes constant tool engagement, so less wear on tools/inserts as opposed to a face mill. (Not that there aren't times the face mill does make more sense to use)
It most definitely has it's place in the machining world.
@@squatchhammer7215I won't hold it against him, he's just a baby after all.
My brain is just like ‘why not cut it?’
Funny thing is that it still broke and flew off but was just hollow on the inside😂😂
Though true, it's breaking off more of a foil type slug as opposed to a 1/4" pin.
@@wildbill7756 It's also only one step high every time it breaks, so it doesn't present anything like the same propensity to screw with the flutes.
That sounds just like me
I'm in the bandsaw camp, but this does kinda show proof of concept. Could probably just chuck that piece in the lathe and part it if you like adventure.
Bandsaw enters the chat..
A long time ago 1995 I was machining some titanium engine mounts for geae and we had a 2 2" deep pockets. Traditional MC pocket routine wasn't working well and was killing the job. I created a surface out of the bottom of the pocket with a circle radiating from center of pocket to each endpoint of pocket. Breaking the circle at intersection of line from center to said endpoint. Using MC I created a
Surface synchronized from circle to pocket. I ran a cut on surface using whatever the single surface cut was and created geometry out of that tool path I edited the geometry to include the center of our pre drilled hole. I sent that tool path to MC and asked them to make a pocket routine that mimics cut. That tool path routine became Morph which is what you demonstrated in this video. I really enjoyed your demonstration and find all your tips well done. Just wanted to share some origin of that tool path.
Drill: "Am I a joke to you?"
Drilling that is stupid and a waste of time
@@grxve___Drilling is the most efficient way to remove material. Period. Especially with modern insert or indexable drills. A 3/4 indexable flat bottom drill would’ve punched that center hole in about 2.3 seconds. Any machinists worth his salt should know that
@@MrLuvtheUSAthats not their point..
In the mold business we keep a lot of tapered cutters around. Achieves the same result with less code, Orr in a prod environment, time.
A secret technique passed down through generations, Some even call it heretical. They call it "Spending an extra 30sec to do a job right"
Edgecam has a feature for dynamic roughing called "prevent chipping" and it actually alters the toolpath to never leave slivers or nubs. Other than that, Edgecam pretty much sucks.
First way much better of course. But the best way to do it, is high feed mill
But what if you combined dynamic and high feed? Probably slower but I'm curiouss
Actually I'm a QC, but this is interesting.
So you’re lazy and don’t do shit for most of the day is what you’re telling me 😂
Im so glad Wreck it Ralph was able to show us how to fix this!
That little piece in the center was foil thin, super satisfying
That just seems like a waste of material. Maybe get smaller stock to not run into that problem.
Not every job is about milling 2mm from top
It's just a representation of the problem. Obviously no one is going to be doing EXACTLY this. But if, for example, you're working on a large, complex peice that happens to need a large portion of material milled off like this, then it's a very useful technique.
Good point.
It’s not a waste of material, you can just melt the excess again into a new block. Though the method he uses seems to be pretty inefficient.
@@altrover9930depends on what customer or employer provides
For instance we on some materials have either 5 or 10 mm in diameter and length is too 5 or 10 mm .
you should add link to full video either in description or in comment section
Why does this guy sound exactly like John C Reilly?
That kick was worth watching this 😂
I am about to get a job doing this top of work. I feel so blessed. Can't wait to learn all this stuff!
If you are serious about it some of the best ways is to either go to a trade school or find a company that will actually train you and not just enough for the job. I went to a trade school in 2021 at 22 I was making $28 in the Midwest to get you a level pay I that is with 4 years for on job experience and 2 years of that being aerospace
@@Black__hoodie the dude that owns the business told me to come on anytime and they would teach me. The business is RMI out of Blountville Tennessee.
You poor bastard....
Many people are criticizing this operation, thinking it's pointless and that nobody will actually do it. However, the video is demonstrating a method for handling a similar situation. It's like a Chinese man showing you how to hold a bean with chopsticks, and you're asking, "Why not spoon?"
So let's say you've got a way bigger piece of stock, but you need to do the same thing to it. This 2" tall square slot is gonna be just a tiny part of that big piece. You still gonna use a face mill for that?
Sure, you do you. You can use whatever method you like. I'm just here sharing my two cents.
"This 2" tall square slot is gonna be" completely different toolpath.
If I understand you correctly.
Why not saw it off ?
Really depends on material. Is it worth using a saw and dozens of blades, bands and discs just to dispose of 1kg of material? Its also time consuming in the sense you can set this and forget about it, do something else... and be productive at the same time. Sometimes efficiency is key.
@@dukereguardless1720 then also you have an off cut of material . I guess in a production shop where expense and material isn’t a personal concern , then who would care .
Imagine the stock is a 20 inch or 50 inch block, not the small block here, and you are also machining the second operation side. A shop might not have a saw large enough to fit the part to remove the excess stock.
@@wildbill7756 I understand what you mean there, Bill. My exforeman came from a steel working place and did the same stuff. Where we were , it was wasteful to do that, cause often a small off cut was just fine. With him sometimes we had to wait a week to get more metal. Obviously it depends on the place, availability and urgency. Have a good day, sir .
@MagnetOnlyMotors I know when I have extra stock like this on my second operation, it's most likely because I needed the extra material for more rigidity during my first op, whether it be for better clamping force in a vise, or for giving added support to material that over hangs the vise jaws or is installed on a pallet smaller than the stock.
Our customers also care about outside surface finish, so we finish outside surfaces from 1 side as much as possible to avoid trying to blend cuts (which never works out perfect). So I would need the extra stock so I can finish the full profile of the part. Of course using as little extra stock is always end goal.
So as you said, everyone has their own circumstances. Good day to you as well.
And here was me thinking we were trying to avoid that little rod being broken off 😂😂
I actually found a use for this today and probably wouldn’t have thought of it without this, thanks. I had a 316 part that I was holding way out there and couldn’t face mill because of working. This worked out perfectly.
I have been a cnc programmer and machinist for almost 30 years now and because of that I really dont use true mill or dynamic milling too much. In the near future I am planning to utilize this more and more however I never thought of this happening. Thankyou for showing me this because you saved me from having a bad day. Learned something new thankyou.
Not quite sure I understand the premise here since this situation would never be possible. I get this is attempting to show a technique, but even non-flat surfacing operations, you could just use a more standard path to avoid all but a burr on an edge. Or more importantly, you'd start from the center and cut outward for any interior cavity anyway.
Also yes, a face mill would be a standard second tool in a CNC operation anyway. If you were clearing this much material, you'd dedicate separate tools for rough operations to start, for both lathe and mill.
Good job solving the problem you created
That cut to the guy hitting the fence post. That was great.
That is so unbelievably satisfying to watch.
Shocking: Machinist figures out how not to snap shit off when cutting stuff
That was some great editing 👌
I love it! That is the kind of clip that could motivate get a guy who doesnt know what CNC is to become an expert machinist
Lmao, that dude missing the punchingbag got me!
Thanks for showing us what a 16 year old in a shop class with enough time to discover their machine can figure out.
Don’t know what shop class there in that allows them to use such big pieces of aluminum. With 1-2 years of experience😂 Best your gonna get is setting up mills or lathes, programming, edge finding, touching tools off, blueprint reading, etc.
That dude kicking the fence post was hilarious
Lots of ways to skin a cat, but the cheapest way to remove stock like that is with a big drill on center. Not a criticism, just a food for thought kind of thing. Definitely love you guys, and what you're doing for our industry.
Take care
Unless you don't want to buy/wear the drill, use a separate tool holder for the drill, take time to setup the drill in the tool holder with collets and pull studs, have enough tool pockets for the drill, or just want to eliminate a tool change depending on how long that process might take.
I'll also assume you mean a self centering drill that doesn't need a spot. Otherwise your tooling cost/usage is going up again, and so are pockets needed, tool changes and cycle time.
I'm not saying drilling it isn't a great option, it just might not be the "cheapest"
It makes me sad how little people understand what you guys are doing and why you're doing it... The knowledge and techniques that you guys willingly share FOR FREE is unbelievable! THANK YOU for not putting this knowledge beyond a pay or experience barrier.
6 seconds into the video,
my brain:
"..I T ' S D A R E"
Iykyk
*_uhh_* - bass ensues
The dood that kicks the fence looks like a friend of mine 😂😂😂😂😂
Goos thing I don‘t work mechanical production. But I do always appreciate the oddly satisfying work they do when I assemble stuff that they made. Sometimes I also wonder just how in the world they made something.
Dude knows his shit! Hands down!
RIP Uncle John! 🙏🙏🙏
This is clean job sir. And people dont appriciate that, u deserve more subs.
That dude who missed the punching bag while attempting that muay thai shin strike caused my whole body to shutter while cringing to it, oof
why did i imagine him saying “What in oblivion is that!” at the beginning
NX CAM has a feature for this which you can activate with a click on a tick box.
I finally got home and had work stuff recommended to me on YT lol
He's so cute coming in yelling WHAT IS THAT?!
Thank you CZcams algorithm, I really needed to see this
Sometimes machinists inspire me more than engineers
Gotta love these little tip shorts.
I wasn’t even looking at my screen, I thought I was listening to John C Reilly. That is uncanny.
Or hear me out, just drill a hole in the center of the part. It's a lot faster than interpolating it out with an endmill.
Actually I think the tapering is pretty important when the cutter comes in the top of it goes to foil first so when it gets to the bottom there's nothing.
that's 1 more tool change. 2 if you don't have self centering drills, so its a much bigger waste of time, and you wont have a flat at the bottom unlike an endmill.
I feel like wreck it Ralph is giving me a lesson
Me never having done computer assisted machining: Yes, this is the way.
Alternative title: how to make metal tree rings the RIGHT way.
I’ll never have to worry bout that
I feel wise like an old man now. It’s powerful
The school i went to had us do a lot of manual stuff and from that perspective a band saw will save you a lot of time.
The torque on these things must be insane
This man sounds like John c Reilly
Got to love my MARVELsaw. Eighteen by Eighteen inch window you can put to forty five degree.
Cool idea, but I'm not sure I've ever had this problem. The only reason I'd be using that sort of path would be an internal pocket, in which case the core would have been drilled/milled in advance and would mill outwards. If needed that much meat off the top, it would be either sawn, facemilled, or just flip the A axis round 90 and side cut it off.
Thank you
Perfect explanation
I rewatched just to see old boy kick the fence
Good to see so many people roasting idiots for wasting perfectly good metal.
FINALLY! I can dust off my old CNC precision drilling/boring/wtfisthat tool from underneath my bathroom sink! This is the tip I was born to find!!!! Thanks youtube!!!
Nobody’s gunna talk about the shirt saying “CNC” lol
You also need to consider the heat transfer bottle neck. As the surface area of the rod becomes smaller but the same for the drill bit causing friction remains the same, it’ll get softer and not react properly.
An infrared camera, and water hose system could be useful here. Where when the infrared camera finds the area to be smaller or the temperature above a threshold for the material being drilled, the water or oil hose starts cooling and the RPM reduced slightly
Yes I’m sure he isn’t using coolant is because of us. It’s to show us clearly.
I wasn't looking at this at first and thought John C Reilly was doing a voice over
Cool trick. I haven’t thought of that. Thank You. I will surely remember that. I am 65 years old though. I’m also just beginning to learn machining.
Bro sacrificed a block for that
The saw doesn't leave any pins and saves the excess material instead of turning it into shavings.
I love your work with Brandon
I don’t know what’s happening, I don’t know what problem has been solved but the cnc machine does look cool
Love it Is a Great solution. And you only have to Edit it a Little bit and your work gets a Very good Finish with the Fräser 👌
Love this Greetings from Germany
This is why you first of all start from the inside of the part and work to the outside and I’ve only used a cnc like ten times and I’m a freshman
Good trick, I’ll remember this the next time I work with million dollar equipment
I now feel like I certify to do whatever this is
Thank you! Looks great!
Cool trick. I will have to remember this.
Dang its like u guys have done it once or twice before. Nice
So, maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about, but it seems to me that if you need to make a cut like that, there are a lot easier ways to hog off that material.
Am I the only one more interested in the fence kick video?
I found this by accident but saw the name and instantly thought Brandon Herrera
It's ASMR to watch this stuff
Yes taking it out of the machine to bandsaw off the nub is the way to go.. I have whatever nub that is left be less than whatever cutter I’m using, then face it off in smaller axial depths
You could try cutting the blank closer to the required size before milling. 😉
I hope that they did it this way to show off high speed cnc milling. A face cutter would be my choice.
Brillant advice.
Amazing how many people don’t know about dynamic milling
we love Tennessee floor finish
If you're going to remove like I'm guessing 40mm anyways, why not use a saw for the rought length and then just finish it with the milling machine? Also if you want to creat an even surface faster, use a bigger milling tool. Like shell end milling cutter or a cutter head. Unless you're going for that exact pattern of a spiral, a bigger milling tool will do the job better and faster, because it won't bend as much and therefor won't have the same amount of tention, so it's less likely to snap
its for filming purposes I assume. you're right in this case, a good machinist would use a facemill.
when you're making a pocket, you need the surrounding material, and you get into that situation
The metal shards flying from that machine tho