Chris Harris On... The Death of The Hot Hatch? | Top Gear
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- čas přidán 8. 06. 2024
- In the lastest series of #TopGear, Chris Harris drives the new Honda Civic Type R and arranges a meetup with some of the greatest hot hatches of all time.
Join Chris in conversation with Top Gear Magazine's Jack Rix where they discuss how the FL5 Type R stacks up to its predessors, where it sits in the pantheon of hot hatch greats, and potential death of the hot hatch category all together.
Watch Chris Harris' full power test in the latest episode of Top Gear on BBC iPlayer → www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...
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Chapters
0:00 Intro
0:18 The Death of The Hot Hatch?
1:17 The New Honda Civic Type R
3:33 FL5 New Features
5:14 What Makes A Hot Hatch
5:51 FL5 Type R Verdict
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"The competence of the vehicle is not paramount, it's about how it makes you feel."
Well said.
And that's why I love my FN2. lol
@@David-vy1sf they're good all rounders. And very capable when modified
still rocking a 99 ek9 type R as my daily! couldn't be more happier
Absolutely, Harris gets it.
That's why I love my slow s2000. I don't care if everything is faster.
4:59 Thanks chris. My Dad was one of the quality engineers on the team that designed that seat. He spent 5 years of his life on it. He died 2 years ago so he will never hear you say how much you love his work. Although i'm pretty sure honda won't miss him too much. The first prototype for that seat was trash and honda really didn't want to change it.
why do you think Honda won't miss him that much? Just because of the sheer size of the company?
This is an all new seat. How did your dad spend 5 years on development and also died two years ago? Perhaps he worked on the last gen seat.
Bless your father - Love my Type R seats
@@feelthatfeelthat The "new seat" is 98% the same as the old seat
The seat was designed from 2011 to 2016 or so and released on the FK8 - the next seat was developed from 2017 to 2022 and released on the FL5
His father could have easily spent 5 years of the past 10+ years the FK8/FL5 seats have been in development
The new seats are 7% lighter than the old seats....a few tweaks, not quite an overhaul
@@hectord27 No he was a massive pain in the ass for the penny pinchers and the japanese engineers. Everytime they would do something to cut costs he would stand up and say no.
He also proved more than once that the boys at swindon had no idea what they were doing. The quality team at the swindon factory hated having meetings with him, mostly because they would end with the entire team being embarrased by fat, grey old dude who liked harry seacombe a little too much.
You've forgotten the ek9 civic type r which was a JDM only model. 1.6l 185bhp and revved to 8600rpm in a body that weighed just over a tonne, LSD, beautiful gearshift (and a titanium knob!), fully independent suspension, recaros and a momo steering wheel. Absolutely brilliant car.. Wish I never sold mine 😩
Spot on, and before that the 4g civic VT (crx estate) independent suspension all round and 150/160 hp 👍🏻
Still got mine and dc2
he didnt mention it because those were grey imports, not ukdm
You sold a ek9 R??? What got into you? Ah well, least you had one once
@@lawrencewinter I've had a Jdm dc2, jdm Ep3, accord type r, ek4 civic vti and the ek9 which I dropped a k20 in to and was running 250bhp haha.. Just felt like a change from Honda. Looking at importing an evo 5 now
Hot Hatches >>>>>> SUVs
Not even remotely the same kind of car you can’t compare them
@@RMAN-rz4xw you can and he’s right.
@@RMAN-rz4xw I think he meant that a hot hatch is a better vehicle than a stupid SUV
Tru
@@RMAN-rz4xw You can in most cases. They have the same utility (driving from A to B on pavement, basically no SUV is made to go beyond that), nearly the same cargo space, nearly the same passenger room. But hot hatches do everything in a more fun way. Oh and don't forget the hideous "coupe" SUVs. They have no real benefits (less space than a hatch lmao) but all the drawbacks of a SUV
52 year old here. Daily is a Clio RS200 Mk3. Hot hatches are the best cars.
All the good hot hatches still live on in the 90's. Old school never dies.
The old CRX for example?
Chris Harris on… I click.
The way Chris can convey his sentiments about a car and his experience with it is just a joy to listen to and I can hear it all day and not get tired. He is the best kind of car guy, similar to a Jay Leno, just your everyday passionate enthusiast who is just straightshooting tell it like it is kind of guy.
The current state of the hot hatch though is sad that it is essentially a very shrinking segment and we do have to appreciate when a new one comes out. I saw the new Type R at the LA Auto Show last weekend and I saw in the drivers seat and I have to agree, those Recaro's are some of the nicest I've sat in in any car. I prefer performance seats and of course Recaro makes some of the best out there but these ones in particular were so good.
Chris is in a class by himself; imho much more articulate than Jay (who is still Very Good!).
@@merritt0 Definitely agree about Chris being more articulate in how he puts his thoughts together. I just appreciate both in how down to earth they seem and people I can easily carry an enjoyable conversation about all things cars and not get tired or bored.
yeah but, why he insists with the hot hatch connection?, at 4.6 m long, this is the closer to the size of an M3 instead of a golf....and a new M3, not one of the old ones...; have in mind that we are keep banging that the new 3 series is the size of the not so old 5 series. My point is...the new civic(and civic type r) does not have a hatchback size anymore...so, I don't think we should called it that way anymore. Honda thinks the same, from what I can tell, by pricing it at the sport sedan market price.
@@eugenux I agree, size wise it's not as small as a standard hot hatch but remember this has 4 doors and a usable boot/trunk also majority of today's cars are not small by previous hot hatch standards and while dealers will still price gouge are special models like the Type R, at the end of the day it's still nowhere near the price of an M3 or an M2 so from an "affordability" standpoint, it's still reasonably attainable for a large group of people.
@@ArthurZakaryan23 maybe this is true in the States. Here in EU, an optionless type r is 55k euro. To put it in context, it is at 2 optional extra away from what an e92 m3 costed when new. To further put it in context.. after you optioned a type-r, you are just a couple of k away from serious special cars, m2, rs3s, Alpin a110s and even caymans/boxters. You need to have your brains gone coocoo to think a civic.. any civic is worth 60k euro.
I had that civic VTi 4 door saloon. 1.6, DOHC VTEC, 160bhp, revved to 8k. Looked like an ordinary saloon, until I opened up the taps on it. I loved that car.
I've scrapped 3 genuine black EG6 hatches and it makes me wanna cry......nevermind the flawless 96 spec ITR i sold for 3k....MR2 turbo needing a heater matrix for £1000, Pristine Forged GTiR i sold for £2500.....luckily i still have a few JDM cars i never parted with
@@seshelbow336 nice make sure they dont rust
@@seshelbow336 I still have my DC2-R
Love the new Civic Type R but it's price tag is insane.
Chris has nailed the nuance of a hot hatch bang on.
a 4.6 m long hot...."hatchback"
New type r is just honda accord. FWD sedan
Also it isn't a hot hatch.
Yep. 47k ... ridiculous. And that's before dealer markups and speculators. Buy an i30N for 10 grand less.
@@eugenux Exactly, its far too big.
The 1.9 205 GTi taught me how to make a FWD dance (and there was a lot of mistakes!), it was the Clio 182 Cup that blew my mind. It was like a scalextric car, it didn’t matter how hard I threw it into a corner, that front end would never give up.
Especially when you can easily coax it into a 3 wheel stance during cornering :)
I had 172 too use to try throw it hedge going round round about it wouldn't lol.
Wife said once your going to fast there's round about coming up said look I shall aim for that edge she was very surprised that it went round haha am sure it went on three wheels 🤣😂
I could listen to this man all damn day! You just feel the passion he has for cars, can't fake that really.
More of these interviews pls
The Yaris GR?
A homologation special maybe, but one hell of a hot hatch.
Chris Harris describing what a hot hatch should be is exactly what I've been saying the last few years
The new Civic Type R looks wonderful. But I would question whether even this is a hot hatch any more, for two reasons... Isn't it far too big, considering this version is now roughly the same length as a 3 series BMW? And isn't it too expensive at £47k? I'd say that pretty much falls under Chris' description of a premium hatch like the RS3 and the A45.
If we want to look at cars that are still small, relatively inexpensive and fun at legal public speeds, then surely now the only real contemporary hot hatches are the likes of the Fiesta ST and Hyundai i20N. Maybe even dropping down to the VW Up GTI?
A hot hatch needs to be an everyday hero. I don't think you can class a car that is not much shy of 50k as one of those anymore.
It's 100% not a hot hatch
Spot on
Its more like an accord. Ive got an FK2, thats a hatch!
A MK1 Focus 1.6 Zetec had the most amazing FWD chassis. I know it's not a hot hatch and never was just an everyday hatchback. But the lift off oversteer was there for the taking. Beautifully balanced and you knew you probably wouldn't lose your license. I had several as company cars and they where all sublime to drive quickly. Always put a massive smile on my face zipping past faster cars and carrying more speed into a corner or roundabout and having it cock it inside rear wheel or rotate if you fancied some lift off oversteer. God I miss all of em..
I’m thinkig about buying one. They still drive better than most stuff today for me and I love looks of it. Slap in 2din radio with Apple CarPlay and you have solid ride. Bad thing is rust is started to getting them last couple of years. Very hard to find good one.
Yes. I agree. I had one as a hire car many years ago and could not believe how good it was to drive. Just the basic 1.6. It “felt” like a hot hatch.
Yeah I drove several of the mk1 and 2 for work, the 2.0 diesel mk1 was good for 135mph! (Apparently 😜) They all handled like a dream, the mk2 1.6 diesel was a peach too…
Would love to hear Chris’s opinion on the Hyundai offerings 👍
I currently daily an 03’ Toyota Matrix XRS (basically a Toyota Corolla Hatchback), and the XRS is the “Hot” Version with the high compression, high revving with Lift, 2ZZ engine from the Lotus Elise.
it’s such a blast to drive! Just like Chris said, you feel faster than you are actually going and It’s got an old school Honda feel to it with its own V-tec, redlining at 8,400rpm. 6spd manual, 35mpg, extremely practical and looks quite good.
The timing of this is perfect. I decided yesterday that instead of “upgrading” to a new, expensive compact SUV (read XC40) I’m going to keep my mint 7.5 GTI for another 3 or 4 years. Hot hatches just one of those “if you know, you know” things…
Yer man!! We went backwards got rid of a newish Q5 for a gti 7.5 and love it. The mrs took some persuasion but she loves it. Wouldn’t go back to an suv now. Even with kids.
Bought a corrado after our 2nd daughter was born. Twin kiddie seats in the back and pushchair in the boot. How more practical do you need. Best handling car ever. Still miss the old girl. Mini Cooper works not bad though😂
could honestly spend hours listening to Chris geek out on cars. More of this please Top Gear
Days, weeks.
Pity this geek doesn’t know about the Civic EG6 which was available in Japan and other parts of the world back in 1992
Lol no wonder it has less than 500k views new top gear sucks
Just came to say this is exactly how I feel. I sold my m135i and bought a Lupo GTI for this exact reason 👍
No way bro. I bet u miss your Beemer
@@manofthenorth6372 at times don't get me wrong. I walk to work, and have a super73 which I take my daughter to school on. Gym is a walk as well. I pretty much just drive for fun which the lupo is perfect for. Miss the 1er when I'm on the motorway for a couple of hours though
The FK8 looks great. yeah it's over the top but I think that adds to it's character
I agree. Glad I got the fk8. This isn’t bad but it’s like a dad car. The SI should look take the type r ahold stand out.
People can hate on the fk8 design etc, but it's the only car I have ever been in that puts such smile on my face....the in your face styling is actualy something i love about it in a world of golf's etc....
He perfectly articulated why I love hot hatches, especially Type Rs.
That car is so expensive. I think a base EG or EK Civic is closer to the true spirit of a hot hatch even though they didn't have much power. The small wheels and low belt line made them feel faster.
For its time the EG VTI with 160hp and around 1100 kg was plenty 💪🏻
And the EF9 before those
I'm convinced 205/50 R15 was the zenith for factory hot hatch tire/wheel sizing. The very first step in getting back down closer to 1200 kg...
@@MalcolmCir with todays manufacturing size isn't an issue, look at Koenigsegg's super light wheels.
Regulations demand safety gadgets and more and more airbags along with a more sturdy body/chassis that increase the weight. What was rates as "safe" in the 80s and 90s isn't the same as today, for better and for worse.
@@MalcolmCir That's a very good tire size. It keeps the weight and cost of the tire down, the size and weight of the car down and you still have a functional side wall. People went from 15s to 18s too fast!
I have the fk8, and I couldn’t imagine getting rid of it. It’s the only car I’ve had where I just love to drive it.
The talk about hot hatches are for back roads, that’s. Exactly what I do. Wash and detail my car, then drive around the countryside for a while.
When hot hatches go the ev route. I wonder if they can still keep their nimbleness with the extra weight of a battery. That’s kinda core to the hot hatch.
Totally agree that hot hatches should make you feel that you're going faster than you are. My old MK1 XR2 did that, and it was obviously very low tech and not at all fast, but it made me feel great. 😎
I absolutely love the look of the FK8,
The 3rd gen mazda3 with the 2.5l is underrated as it's not truly 'hot hatch' by modern standards but it stacks up very well compared to older hot hatches and has a lot more of that simple, older car, kind of feeling than any of the other modern compacts.
I have a 4th gen Mazda 3 and it basically matches up to my old Sentra SE-R Spec V, which was a Civic Si competitor. Both have 2.5L, both have roughly 180 hp (186 and 175 respectively). I took my Sentra to a drag strip and it can run a 15.3, and a magazine tested a 4th gen Mazda 3 at 15.3. Power to weight they have to be very very similar as the Mazda is heavier as are all newer cars. But yeah it’s just a standard version of a common economy car that has similar stats to a hot hatch (I know the Sentra is not a hatch but it has that spirit of a cheap eco car being tuned up to be bonkers) from the early 2000s.
I really like the 2.5l but it doesn’t seem available in Portugal.
base model peasants. it will never be a speed3.
I own one. It's a nice car but no hot hatch. It's too composed for that. Although you can really hustle it through fast sweepers, I think it fails the hot hatch standard because it is not a car that just begs you to wring it's neck. It'll do whatever you tell it to do, but it doesn't tell you to drive faster!
@@emilianogarcia258 that car while powerful badly needed an LSD it handled like garbage.
My Fiesta ST was my favorite car ever! I've owned 65 cars, and rented 10 times that. The Fiesta ST was more fun then all my other cars combined. If you have one, never sell it if possible.
Put my son in a Fiesta ST for all these reasons. Plus he’s now the only one of his friends that can drive a manual transmission.
Thats one car a month for 54 years! Told you a billion times not to exaggerate
Il never get rid of my ep3 civic type r 8 years driving and still puts the biggest smile on my face shit on motorways but get it on a b road and catch me if you can lol
Fiesta ST owner here. Won't be giving it up any time soon ❤
put a collective 200k on a 14 and 17, absolutely favorite car ever and should have stockpiled them lol. Went to an Elantra N and absolutely love it (though I would have had i20 or i30 N in a heartbeat if available) ---- Ford's business plan backfiring in the US.
As great as the new Type R is, hot hatches should be affordable at around the $25-45k range. Unfortunately with dealer mark ups, the price of the Type R out the door goes up to $60k. That much for a Honda Civic is just ridiculous.
First hot hatch I experienced when I was a teenager was Golf MK3 VR6. What a great fun car that was ! My friend's latest Civic Type R is great but doesn't have the same feeling for some reason. Best hot hatches for me have this retro vibe to them... Dunno... What do you think ?
Always thought the Golf VR6 was too heavy with that engine. It sounded great but the car understeered. It wasn’t nimble enough for the hot hatch label
The Civic doesn't drive like a hot hatch to me, too big, too heavy, just feels like a powerful Salon.
My wife still loves her Honda CRX Vtech. 1991. Real hooligans car of its time and now a rare bear.
Suzuki swift sport ...the second gen. Brill
Absolutely correct, it's about how a car makes you feel. I've had the FK8 and driven an M4. Completely different leagues but there's something about banging gears and throwing it around corners and enjoying yourself is more fun than you get in a straight line.
even though we'll probably never have cars like the Clio V6, Saxo VTS, Lotus Sunbeam or the Delta Integrale, it's good to know the Civic Type-R is still here but it's a pity we'll never have as many hot hatches as we did years ago, but at least they exist to show just how good (and sometimes crazy) hatchbacks were, and affordable too.
Honda should make a Yaris GR contender with 10k+ rpm redline. That would be so hot.
This is why I love my i20N, it’s cheap and reminiscent of the hot hatches I used to love years ago. Very much reminds me of my old 205 gti.
Yes agree - awesome car.
yes-- we really should celebrate N flying the flag of the hot hatch-- though I am stuck with a boot in my Elantra N....but I know I would have had a i30N all day if it was available!!! Former Focus/Fiesta RS/ST guy here ..... RIP in U.S.
I love my Fiesta St. So much fun.
My hot hatch rolls on stilts. Kona N.
it's not cheap. You could buy and mantain a couple of 205 gti with that money. Also it looks like a car for kids.
I wanted to get an AWD Focus RS in the US. I was just waiting for the bugs to get worked out, but then they never sold the next gen here and then canceled it completely worldwide along with the Fiesta ST. Because of this, the used ones are too expensive...
Saxo and hot hatches were awesome 👌
In Australia we get the JDM-spec Suzuki Swift Sport, which I’ve just ordered as it reminds me of earlier generation Golf GTI’s and the 205 GTI. It’s cheap (you don’t worry about carrying the dog around or the odd scratch), 970kg, chuckable and purely focused on fun! Not fast, but quick enough to have fun.
Couldn’t agree more. Been driving one for the past year. Great little car
The current Swift Sports Turbo is a real hot hatch in the classic sense. Lots of them used as rental cars at the Nurburg Ring. They are less then 1/2 the price of a new Type R, Megane RS300 etc. If they had a Mechanical LSD option that would be a bonus.
Hot hatches have always been my favourite type of car. So I think it's so sad that Peugeot have killed off the GTi badge, Renault the Renault Sport badge, Ford the RS badge and there won't be another Fiesta ST. And when Honda have finally perfected the Civic Type R (i.e. the first one since the EP3 that isn't ugly), it's stupidly expensive. Sad times indeed.
The rise of “compact SUVs” probably doesn’t help either. Sad times 😢
Thats my preference as well. even at various price points im choosing a hatch. I hope to have my 18 Fiesta ST and my JCW for as long as they will last me.
We need to boycott these companies who are abandoning all but SUVs and are prematurely and enthusiastically dropping petrol engines.
its the EV era
Awesome review Mr Harris again...Awesome car and I will try to get one without Mark up, maybe I'll wait a year.
Good points made here
The Civic EG6 was out in Japan in 1992! That’s a wild
Hot hatch Harris missed
I had one of them, flippin great
uk had the vti
Agreed, I have an fk2 type r at 370bhp for 20k, absolute bargain and it’s mental and It still feels like a hot hatch. Reminds me of the old school cars I had back 20 years ago.
Picked one up 2 weeks ago. Looooove it
Don’t think I’ll see anything like it in years to come
@@A4ANT you bought an fk2? Or the fl5? Either one is a good choice!
@@samwilde595 - FK2
@@A4ANT ah congrats. I love mine, it’s blue. I’ve done a few mods to it too it’s an animal now. There’s a great group on FB to join if you haven’t already.
@@user-gz9tq9fo5bI’m not?
During my high school days, my father had a CRX si. What a car. An absolute rocket powered roller skate that cornered like it was on rails. And got 30 mpg highway.
My best friend owned one of those, it was an ex JDM 1987 1.5L non VTEC SOHC carburetted model. Definitely felt faster than it was, and the carby engine had better torque characteristics than the early injected DOHC VTEC cars, it would pull quite strongly from low down but topped out around 6500rpm. Around the same time, I owned an ex JDM 1991 Integra XSi coupe with a B16A. That engine in stock form was totally bulletproof, pity the gearbox wasn't - I missed a shift and stripped the synchro's from second gear.
Honestly, I have a 2018 3-door manual Mini Cooper (136hp(155 real hp)) with an ECU tune (~170hp) and good tires, and its very fun to drive and it has been reliable (40.000km).
2015 MCS with the sports suspension (what then came in the JCW). Driven the absolute hell out of it for 65k miles and still going strong.
I was going to get one but 50k for a FWD hot hatch is crazy, you could get a 981 GTS with low mileage for that; I may as well keep my Porsche and buy a i30N for 35k new.
I could not agree more. I owned the FK8 from brand new to ~32k miles in under 3 years. Multiple track days (AMP/Road ATL), autocross, and Tail of the Dragon weekends and it was a surgical weapon. But I sold it and got a 1996 Honda Integra Type R and it just has so much more soul! I spent about 3hrs total at MidPond hammering on the thing, letting others take her out and it didnt complain a single bit.
Not quite a type r but should have but the S2000. My friend did 50 laps on a local track and stopped 20 in to change the rear pads but was chasing everything. I have a S2000 as a daily and a 2001 DC5 as a toy and in the backroads its just something else.
If you can't afford those old exotics, a plain 2017 Civic Sedan LX (10th Gen) with a 6MT transmission has a lot of those old-school goodness... 2700lb, K20 NA engine, multilink rear suspension, Vtec after 5800rpm and drivetrain that's overengineered for Turbo power. I'm trading mine in for an Elantra N, but suspect I'll regret it in the long run.
@@psewgobind Completely agree! You do NOT have to pay to have fun. My daily atm is an 04 EP3 Si I paid $5k for. Had tons of type R goodies, BC coils, rpf1 wheels. Thing makes no sense how fun it is. I feel like RC from Toy Story in it.
@@gorillafacegwen9247 Hell yeah!
@@CatchingVibes-et9zv also have 13,7lbs RPF1 on my 2017 Civic. You’re right, fun factor at the track far exceeds its humble prices. However, that’s from NA power, I suspect for future wannabe on a budget, high mileage turbo power isn’t going to be good bang for the buck. With current batch of sporty economy
he never mentioned the civic ek type r when talking back on Honda's history, he said the ep3 was the first civic with the seats etc, ek was.
I’m a 50 year old bloke and last year I got my first hot hatch an I30n dct and I love it. I’ve had mercs and BMW’s in the past but never had as much fun as I do in the I30n
Yes junk I think your on it
The hot hatch is the reason I started watching top gear. it is also my favorite type cars. unfortunately at almost 40 years old dad, it is unrealistic to daily one. I really do wish that brands continue to make them for my kids sake
Why is it unrealistic to daily one? I’m 35 and drive a coupe though :)
39 and dailied a FK8. With a car seat in the back. Perfectly capable.
@@liquidtunes I have five kids. So it is a bit difficult to drop the kids off at school in a hot hatch.
@@darksidegarage910 naaah... just cram then in there :D. I mean... sometimes you have to make stupid choises. Here I am with a kid, girlfriend and a dog and I drive a museum registered Mazda MX-5 from 1990. More than inconvenient but the car itself makes up for it.
you could drive a Mini JCW
"Sense of naughtiness" this is what I got from my abarth 595. Loads of people just don't get that it's not about speed it's about being silly and fun. Abarth nail it, I've never driven a type r but I'd love one of these ones
I have a fiesta ST-Line and it's the same. Drive normal, opportunity presents itself so have fun at sane speeds, return to normal.
I have a type r,fk8. And yeah you don’t need massive power. Having tighter steering and responsiveness of it is what makes hot hatches shine.
What's the Abarth like for medium/high speed cornering? I figure the short wheelbase would make it unstable?
Never driven one, but I adore the Abarth 595. See them about a fair bit too.
i20n
I can't find Chris' FL5 Type R review video in the Top Gear channel. Is that footage from a still unreleased video? I found it strange because I would've already seen it!
I got an EP3 and an EG turbo. I know they are world apart from the newer models, but the fun factor is through the roof. I got the chance to drive the FK8 and it was no doubt the better car, but it feels kinda slow. I can guarantee that a turbocharged k20a2 will be way more fun than the K20c.
Love this guy. Speaking out with how it is.
I think Chris hit the nail right on the spot with the price argument. The entire purpose of a hot hatch's existence was to provide an *affordable *, fun and practical alternative to the expensive and exotic sports cars, and with these new boys like the AMG A 45 and the RS 3, they are anything but that; now they've mostly just become irritating dailys for social media dbags. While the new Civic Type R is still more expensive than ideal, I do respect to Honda for sticking to the old guns and making a new Type R the way a hot hatch should be made.
70k for a new RS3 right now 😂
if they're not affordable why is there so many of them about?
@@flemit35 Because they can still sell every single one of them. Not to mention dealers make more profit through marking these up.
@@jkliao6486 because they're affordable
@@flemit35 Nope, 70k for a civic type R is not affordable.
Loved my civic vti aerodeck with factory body kit. Loved it. Scared salesman on test drive. But he got the sale…
Which was also pretty tail happy for that type of vehicle ;) I had a MB6 but also driven the MC2 a few times at the limit.
No mention of the Honda CRX? 1989. VTEC. Great car
Thankyou Chris. Now here's a guy who knows what he is talking about. No deliberate controversy and shock value but a concise exposition based on knowledge and experience. You would safely buy this car based on his recommendation.
just a paid ad
The only problem is the Civic doesn't look like a hatchback. It looks too much like a sedan.
That's because it's not a hatch. Putting it in the same conversation is stupid. They consider it as the same category because of the engine size and being FWD. But they're too big, too heavy, too long. It's missing the idea of the 1000kg, 2 door, 4 meter length, 215hp 5 speed bliss that hatches used to be.
@@ARMWRESTLINGCYCLINGFRANCE I think the hatch designation comes down to how the trunk opens. If it's a full door with glass that opens vertically then they label it a hatch, though I completely agree the FL5 looks more like a sedan. I like the FK8 a lot more for its radical looks. There's nothing out there like it.
@@ARMWRESTLINGCYCLINGFRANCE Chris loves it, I’ll take his word over yours 😉
@mbal4052 didn't say it was a bad car. It's just not a hot hatch.
@@dknight25 it's our own fault for settling on this hatchback term that has nothing to do with the size segment. Hot A-segment has been dead for ages.
Amazing video.
Surly it’s gotta be all about the 306 Gti-6 / 306 Rally. One of the best all-round hot hatches surly! Sadly mostly forgotten.
Yes. True!
Hot hatches are awesome, hopefully they continue
What about the new Corolla GR? Worth a mention or not really?
As far as I know, the first edition of the GR Corolla will be sold only in North America, Thailand, Australia, New Zealand, Brazil and Japan.
Therefore, it seems that Top Gear in the UK will not carry this car at this time.
@@maplefreak64 Yes. UK isn't getting it 😭
I drive a MK7 GTI Clubsport and it's absolutely phenomenal - especially with LSD included from factory it's really fun for attacking corners and country roads. I can feel that it weighs every bit of 1375kg but i'm not sure i'd be happy to compromise on interior quality to save weight. Agreed it's a huge shame we're seeing less and less hot hatches
I bought my EP3 Type R after seeing Chris Harris driving one.
He was spot on. It could teach all new cars a lot. 2ltr, naturally aspirated, VTEC revving to 8k and weighing 1250kg, with very low torque.
All the fun in a car you could ever need.
I don't understand: the new Civic Type R is a sedan with hatchback-style trunk, which is called "liftback" in the new Integra. CTR is the same size as Integra, and the body shape looks the same (am I missing something?). The hot hatchbacks of yore are technically hatch-backs, true, it was all about the SIZE of the car, NOT the way the trunk opens -- they used to be a considerable shorter/smaller version of a sedan.
The Civic from the 1990s that Chris brings up is a freakin' sedan -- what is he on about?? Just because the trunk lid might've opened together with the rear window (did it on that car?) and the car was front-wheel drive, doesn't mean it was a hatchback. Just look at the freakin' shape of the car! Gee, for someone who claims to be a fanboy of the hot hatchback, Chris should know better.
Idk, I have the ford focus rs with some upgrades to churn out considerable more hp and it is just a lively beast. It is my favorite thing I’ve ever owned. Hot hatches can have as much power as they can squeeze in there imo.
Its definitely subjective. We all have our own idea of what a hot hatch is and want in one. For me, the Focus RS stock is already as hot a hatch that ever existed and that i’d want.
100% agree. I'm knocking about in a 1.8tsi Leon FR which for a while would have been considered a hot hatch but is now more of a warm hatch. Which is missing the point i think as I toyed with buying a cupra but felt they've overstepped the mark now. 250 tops is what you should class a hot hatch at anything else is a different category altogether. Superhatch?
So what does that leave you as a hot hatch by that rule JCW MINI, Audi S1 abarth 500?
I’ve had civics for the last 25 yrs type R’s included but sadly I just can’t justify the 30k price tag for the new entry level civic and my local Honda dealer told me the new type R will be north of 44k if your lucky enough to get one. Fabulous cars but sadly out of my price bracket now.
I bought an i30N after they'd just come out, so before prices went up, and I can't imagine I'll switch anytime soon - immense fun and great value!
I did a similar thing although mine is a late 2018 before prices went insane. I was interested in the Type R as maybe a slightly more well sorted upgrade but for a ludicrous £20k more than I paid for the N…no way
both i30 and i20 N's are great cars
It’s pretty sad that as consumers. We have let enthusiasts grade vehicles be dictated by consumers outside that space. This premium price requirement just to get a car with some soul under the hood is incredible. I want a truly affordable hatchback with performance. You can’t have that without paying for all these extra bits of crap that run the price up through the roof, and then manufactures question why their car isn’t selling. It’s because for the price you can damn near get an M3 or M4 engineered to no end. Or you get a cool Japanese souped up civic….
Like anything Honda it's overengineered, so you're not getting ''just'' a Civic, you're getting the complete package. Things you don't initially notice (like the way the roof grab handles gently regress with a spring-loaded mechanism as opposed to a graceless thud from anything Ford or Toyota) become apparent when you get into lesser cars. The engine is bulletproof and while the infotainment isn't top tier, the electronics won't die on you like anything BMW. The seats will still have the same bolstering without any tears, in 20 years time. It's like buying a pair of Edward Green shoes for work - if you spend money on quality and look after it, it'll last.
The civic just had a massive recall on an engine issue, hardly ‘bulletproof’
@@jonathantaylor3750 Really? The Type R engine has no recall notifications.
@@keynesianeconomics4113 yeah I should know, I owned one. Never again
@@jonathantaylor3750 Impressive that you've both acquired the new Civic Type R with the updated engine and have sold it!
I agree with Chris with the gearing if you have 6 manual gears make 1st to 5th 25mph increments so you can still do 125mph in 5th then make 6th do 174mph for 70mph cruising
might need to go test-drive the type r it seems :)
very true statement on the RS3.. you don't realize how fast you're going.
It just misses a manual brake to correct the car in some situations and to do some handbrake turns. Still, this is probably the best FWD hot hatch on the market.
It looks very good outside and so does the interior, even the interior materials seem to be of top quality.
However i forgot one thing. The engine sound onboard seems a bit fake but is just a bit is not too bad it sounds almost natural.
I agree. I have the 2021 and while it’s not something I need all the time, it’s fun to do it after a light snowfall
@@nollienick1121 Its also good to correct understeer in tight corners when the car doesn't stop understeering. For example like you said if there is some light snow on the road on a tight corner or the surface is wet or has some gravel/sand/mud and the car slips (understeers), even if you went a bit too fast on dry tarmac and the car understeers, it can be used to avoid a crash. It also can be used to corner faster on tight/medium corners on medium/big hills uphill by pulling a bit the handbrake while cornering (without blocking the rear wheels). And can also be used to have fun has you said. 😁
I see it has essencial on sports cars, especially in FWD cars!
I’m fortunate to have purchased my 2017 MK7 GTI in great condition with low miles at a reasonable price, just before the used car market blew up. After a few mods she’s such a great street car for me. ☮️
Great car, I have a mapped polo gti and love it too
I’m pushing 75 yo and my tuned ‘13 ST still tries to get me in trouble. 60 years with a Drivers License and it’s the most dependable and fun car I’ve ever owned.
First car was an AX GT, then a Ren 19 16V, then a 205 1.6 GTi, then a 106 GTi, then a Type R, then into my Scooby era. I'm 50 now. My god the want for this 'R' is strong, time to sell a child.
Just a little correction there, the 90's Civic used the B16A2 engine that produced from factory 160hp, not 150hp.
Other than that, perfect review. 👌
The EK9 Type R had 182bhp from the 1.6.
@@_TheElMan That was a JDM only model, it wasn't sold in the European or North American market but yeah, it had even more hp than the B16A2 with it's B16B engine.
1990/91 EF Civic had a B16A in it with 150bhp. Shared the engine with the CRX.
@@Hypersonik Yeah, it used the B16A1 with 150hp but it was a car from the 80's, the EG an EK where truly 90's cars.
Also, in the video they where referring to the EG as they showed a picture of it. 👍
@@Hypersonik in north America the ef si had a d16 with 108 hp....lame engine but great chassis
I love the look of the new civic type r FL5 then I discovered today that it's £47k... I can't justify that. That price point opens up lots of fast 1-2 year old German machinery that's faster out the box.
It's €69.000 here in the Netherlands.
@@asphalthedgehog6580 how much does a model 3 performance cost over there?
Still got my honda ep3 type r imported from Japan, what a car!!
IMO the only thing that looks bad on the FK8 are those giant heavy wheels with +60 offset. Some nice wheels with flush fitment and tint it looks great
The Yaris GR nails it in this space
Yep £12k less, actually the size weight and price of a hot hatch
Civic looks better
Seems a lofty price, but no doubt it'll sell given the small numbers that are apparently being imported. I know Ford are killing the Fiesta production, but a friend bought a new Fiesta ST in June 2022 and it was £21k OTR. That is what a hot hatch is about - affordable practical performance.
I don't know why anyone would take a Civic Type R over a GR Corolla. Sure the civic's more comfortable but it's a big softy compared to the Corolla. Corolla is way more fun and cheaper.
@@RYTF5 fun how? It's not even as good as an FK8. The Type R trumps it in every way except 4wd.
@@RYTF5 i30N is probably 80% of a Type R but on the public road, who cares? It’s 35k new! You can pick up a GR Yaris for the same 35k as you said. The CTR is low mileage 981 GTS money.
@@alsayedfakhri4597 much more raw. The civic is soft. The Corolla is way more hardcore.
@@alsayedfakhri4597 and yeah you can't ignore AWD lol. The civic torque steers and understeers all day.
I had 08 plate fn2 type r.... Absolutely brilliant car... Miss it a bit
Miss my EE9. It was bonkers and revved to 8K+....
What about the Hyundai i30N and the i20N?
I'd say Still not a hot hatch the i30n nearly 1500kg🐘 old school hot hatch should be 800 - 1100kg max make a massive difference
@@1086samrat well currently we're not living in old school times now are we? Safety and tech adds weight. The i30n is definitely a hot hatch.
@@1086samrat, I agree, it’s too heavy. And by Chris Harris’ own standards it’s too expensive. I doubt there will any discounts available either bearing in mind it’s likely to take a year to get one after the deposit is paid.
@@mattyoz0 that's true we now live in dull no feeling or feedback car world with more driving aids and more sensor then a rocket ship il stick to old school thanks
As a MK2 Focus RS owner i have to say that hot hatches are some of the greatest types of cars ever made. The looks, the noise, the handling and especially the speed as mines 420hp just makes it an occasion every time you're behind the wheel.
I agree with everything you said about a hot hatch, except for the “especially the speed part”. A hot hatch’s HP #s are the least important performance aspects of a hot hatch to me. I have an absolute blast each day in my 18 Fiesta ST and its still stock Hp at 197hp. 420 is more than my M2 comp has.
@Danny No I agree it's not about the hp, I was mainly just talking about my specific car (although it's a tad too much for the awful English roads and weather some of the time) adding to the sense of occasion. There's so much fun in revving little engined cars out to redline while not doing daft speeds and being flat out through corners and usually cocking a rear wheel 👌
It is ESPECIALLY the design of the FK8 that makes it even MORE special...Ya'll missing this point here and you will all be surprised when exactly this will make it more desireable in the future.....
It felt good to hear from Chris Harris say that it felt like a MK5 GTI just faster...@6:17
5:34
Nailed it Chris, i'm not big on budget and i want that feeling of going faster than you really are, something that handles well and shines on B roads. So i bought a EK3 E-vtec, only around 130 hp with mods, but the chassis, the modest weight, the shortened gear shifter and the modified KW suspension and struts make it feel so racey, and i love it every bit. This car might seem ridiculous too some, but they don't understand what makes it so good, nowadays everyone wants too sit high and feel nothing, completely numbed by modern tech that drives you instead of you driving the car, it's sad too see people are nowadays lazy in every aspect, and hence is why they miss out on so much.
Point is ... before cars were developed and built based on driving experience and practicality. Just be honest, Now, not just car, everything is about to show off , moralism, from big screen to zero emissions and car makers knows it , so because this kind of people are the majority we ending up like this!
Grew up with my mum starting out with a Vauxhall Chevette, then a 1.9 gti escort rst, Citroen ax gt, Renault 21t, Astra gte 16v escort can, she had them all. 80s hot hatch eta will never be beaten.
My GR Yaris carries the theme going on
Since cars have been getting faster, people have demanded more out of performance cars. No car nowadays can be caught dead without touch screen, driver aids, carplay, sensors. Everything is up market and asked to do so much from a base car standpoint, using components that have to be shared with 10 other models. To turn that starting point into a sporting experience introduces so many obstacles, along with still being “more” cause many buyers want their buy to seem “better” than the base spec.
Since the market doesn’t want to sacrifice certain things anymore the cars end up having to be crazier than what they were in the past to compensate for all the numbness, stability, excess.
In short, buyers have become kinda posh
Give me a caterham any day. Simplicity is king.