Do USB Filters Make DACs Sound Better?
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- čas přidán 14. 02. 2021
- This is a technical evaluation and listening tests of USB filters to see if they can make an audible difference in the output of a DAC.
Text reviews:
AudioQuest JitterBug USB Filter Review:
www.audiosciencereview.com/fo...
ifi micro iUSB3.0 USB Filter Review:
www.audiosciencereview.com/fo... - Věda a technologie
Amir, you have to feel stupid when you do these tests, don't you? You know the results, you know what is going to happen, you know you are wasting your time, and yet you still do it. AudioQuest business model is based that people like you do not exist. Thank you man, you are the best :D
I'm not sure if you're new to doing videos but you're very natural at it.
I've noticed that too, Amir knows his stuff and he's very confident when explaining it.
Thank you both. :)
@@Gabriel-of-CZcams He should know his stuff, as a renowned computer engineer he pretty much created digital music streaming as we use it today. I can't believe he's retired and still takes time to run ASR for everybody and make these awesome videos too.
@@herrtrigger7220 Little correction: He is an electrical engineer, not a "computer engineer"
As always, thanks for the important work you’re doing. You’re the one man Consumer Reports of audio.
Thank you Alan. :)
Wait now let me get this straight you're saying that the emperor has no clothes on. I feel so foolish!
I love these videos. Can't wait for a cable showdown!! :D
ASR and your reviews have been the best part of coming back to hifi. Many thanks!
Big thanks for your work !I'm grateful you'r here.
You going all in with CZcams! Thanks for the education you are giving me.
Thanks for doing YT as well as your site! Your reviews are detailed, and you never “BS” anyone. Plus, you have a great sense of humour on your site! :)
Kudos to your dog for the breakdown work.
So good to see measurements to what I hear and what I rationally believe
Amir, very well done. Thanks. It is quite an eye opener.
Thanks Issac. There is a lot more where this came from! :)
Very good review. Hope for more info. Thanks
I knew that these units were BS that's how I found this channel. You got new subscriber. Thanks!
Amir, thank you for sharing content like this.
Appreciate the kind remark.
What I like most on your videos? The total absence of pathos.
I love these videos Amir. I'm a fan of your site but the videos are even better.
Thanks Mark. Motivates me to produce more videos.
@@AudioScienceReview I'd love to see a round up of different sub $30 cables including dollar store RCA cables. I'd be curious what really matters.
Thank you for these videos Amir. You are a treasure to the audio community :)
Solid work
Much appreciated
I think it’s wonderful that you include Fluffy in your scientific process! I vote for more K9 assisted tear-downs
Amazing. Thank-you Amir.
Awesome - keep the videos coming.
Please more of these!
Noice!! Keep em coming!!
Thanks! Almost going to buy iFi Audio iSilencer+ for my dac/amp.
You are a breath of fresh air on CZcams, no mythical stuff going on here.
Sure there is some 'magic' in sound and music combined with our brains, and that is exactly what you are pointing out, great stuff, love it.
Thank you so much.
Why is he fresh air. Have you tried anything that he debunks, or is it that people who can't spend the money on such things for ligitamate reasons feel better?
More... more... more :-)
Thank you for these awesome videos!
I like that you explain these results in video and it greatly helps my understanding. Thanks!
Note: Detailed K-9 assisted meticulous tear down and hardware analysis begins at 13:21 . Dare I suggest de-bunking "shielded" audiophile grade power cords that cost a fortune, next?
Always fun to see people using expensive power cables while running unbalanced RCA between the devices
Re: the power cords, I don't think the PVC jackets are good for the doggo.
I'm a re-tired electrician and electronics hobbyist for years and have been arguing and trying to explain how a 6ft power cord can in NO WAY affect the sound. They look really cool but most are so stiff they will probably end up damaging the power jack. Then I always get, "why do I hear a difference?". The same way they hear a difference when you do a blind test to compare two cords but really don't switch them.
Your videos are much more informative than your text posts, since you explain things so well. Please keep making em!
Thanks. It is a lot harder to compose text for me than to just talk. I procrastinated in setting up a video system but now that it is there, I can and will do more.
I think we re going to be very good friends. (!) You are just what hi fi honest doktor ordered! Well due dude !
Love these videos.
Amir...you are the greatest!!
another amazing / bravo video, thank you!!!
Keep up the good work. It's through reviews like this that people learn about scam companies and how they fleece the consumers.
You are "killing it" with these video. I think you are going to put quite a few audiofool companies out of business, especially the producers of "nonsense" devices like these USB filters.
Nah - their devoted followers are very good at motivated reasoning! I discussed this very device at a danish hifi message board. It was ... interesting!
What's the old saying- a fool and his money...
@@Abrikosmanden RealHifiHelp?
I have 2 jitterbugs and have used them in several different configurations involving different PCs, iOS device and a proper streaming bridge, and in all cases it changed the sound markedly. Mostly improved it significantly, sometimes changed the balance to the disadvantage.
I too have some ifi usb purifiers, they also VERY audibly lift the quality in various configurations (never changed the balance to a notable extent).
So, neither being able to measure nor to hear what is very easy to hear.. what value is provided here?
@@gioponti6359 little value if you've convinced yourself that there will be differences.
Once again shedding light which always exposes the bs. Thanks
Your style of presentation and communication is very valuable and reaches further to those of us who prefer being walked through graphes than spending hours deciphering them. Great job!
Once again a big thumbs up for your new format Amir. I'm a fan already and I'm sure that you will be able to reach a whole new audience via youtube.
Personally I think that besides debunking and reviews also general primers would be a worthwhile contribution.
Thanks and agreed. It may be easier to do a video tutorial on a topic than trying to write a white paper on the same topic.
More reviews of ifi gear please. I find them very interesting as a brand.
Audioquest conned me twice on the jitterbug and the diamond usb cable!
AudioQuest is nothing but a con company. none of the product work as what they claimed. i got tonnes of audioquest product, and nothing works better...
@@bryansu I bought 4m Rocket 22 cable one year ago. I feel really sorry I lost those $100.
Good work. Thanks!
Another great, Money Saving video, thank you...
Awesome video keep them coming, please do one comparing distortion and fidelity of active and passive crossovers.............
That's a tough one. I do plan to test the distortion of a crossover soon though.
@@AudioScienceReview That’s great news. Hopefully you can test the difference between the 2 one day and finally put to bed the argument about which type of crossover is technically better.
Big thank you Amir !
Are you able to record the same kind of video about the LUXURY & PRECISION w1/W2 ?
Thanks. I cannot. Another member in China had that and post the measurements. I don't have one to test.
Man I always loved your written reviews but these videos are even better! One can immediately tell that you're a good and competent person. Keep basing your opinions on facts and science and these scammy companies will hopefully perish
Thank you so much. Will do.
You are like the lock picking lawyer or captain disillusion of audio equipment, I love it..
Underrated comment
I was recently deep in this rabbit hole of looking at these devices and wondering how many i might need 🤣
Thanks for saving me 💰 and demystifying the issue!
I'm curious about a specific use case, using my Scarlett 2i2 (which is bus powered) to amplify condenser mics, I get a distinct high pitch whining sound on the input that I cannot get rid of no matter what cables I use, whether my laptop is plugged in or on battery, etc. Will a product like these UBS filters do anything to eliminate the persistent whine related to USB power interfering with the ADC?
I've been reading your site for years, first video watch, thanks so much for what you do sir. You are a legend!
These ifi filters are useful for some issues. The iFi iSilencer+ solved an issue for a friend. It was the oddest problem and still baffles me. We narrowed the noise down to the way Adobe Premier sent data to the USB controller & dac. All the usual noise suspects were not the issue: ground loop, power, cables, etc. It was ONLY with powered monitors & premier that the noise showed up. With no clue about the source of the noise or solution, he tried the iSilencer and it solved the issue. Go Figure!
Wonder if that would change with a different psu. Or maybe something was grounding to the case.
Thank you!!
Well done!!!
I have one from my laptop to my Dac (Jitterbugg). I was getting a high frequency sparkling/crackling type interference noise coming through my speakers every now and again at volume. It was an electrical type interference it was picking up by the sound of it. I bought the Jitterbug and it completely solved my problem. Whether it actually sounds better is debatable, infact I never even bothered trying to do any comparisons but I can confirm it eliminated the noise I was picking up.
I am not an advocate for using a loaded PC power supply to feed anything analog, but as I understand it the jitterbug is a filter for the USB power supply, it does nothing to the digital stream. If you have slight noises coming from the DAC (I had major noise) their little added power filtering the power may just be enough to push it beyond your hearing threshold. Higher end DACs pay much more attention to their power supply design than the DAC itself since the end result is an analogue signal and depending upon the analogue design a super DAC can sound crap. A DAC has one purpose other than converting a digital input to an analogue equivalent nothing else, but the analog circuitry in the audio path beyond the output of the actual DAC chip will be affected by all kinds of noises being introduced on the power rails.
@@nicoras8803 Ive just stated it removed the offending noise
@@BoredSilly666 I’d love to know what DAC you’re using, because there is nothing inside the jitterbug that “filters” anything in frequencies within the range of human hearing. The only explanation for what you’re describing would be electrical interference that resulted from a poorly-designed input receiver in your DAC, that has improper shielding between the power and data circuits. Does your DAC run on USB power? Does it use the same USB port for power that it does for data transmission? If so and you experienced static, you bought a bum DAC and put a bandaid on it. This is hardly an enthusiastic reason to justify the Jitterbug for the vast majority of folks who don’t have your problem, sorry.
@@srkbear1 It was a cheap Ifi Zen Dac that has now been sold, Ive now moved on to a Chord Qutest and Network bridge but Thanks for your Concern. Next time I need someone to teach me how to suck eggs I will give you a shout.
@@BoredSilly666 That was really unnecessary. I wasn’t intending condescension in my post. If it came across that way, then I offer my apologies. I was simply saying that the focus of this video is to disprove the claims that Audioquest is making about this device transforming the quality of their music, not to address whether it can solve ground loops or static in applications that are not functioning to expectations. Peace.
I'd like to see how the Topping P50 Linear PSU stacks up with the D50S/A50S since they claim it makes a difference and they're normally pretty on point with their transparency in specs. That and the fact I own the set anyways, mostly for the build quality/tidyness.
I don't have a P50 to test. I have tested the D50 though with different supplies and while you can measure a bit of difference, for all practical purposes they don't do anything for it.
Compared to my good Aqvox linear power supply unit (not manufactured anymore), the Topping P50 has a more open and deep soundstage. This is done by increasing the treble level. However, the bass and slam are lacking. Instruments sound thin and not natural.
Thank you for creating such honest videos exposing these companies who scam people out of thousands of dollars on unnecessary equipment which does nothing. We need more of this objective approach in the audiophile community
Thanks again.
Thank you, great video about hifi lyrics.
It made a huge improvement for me, i had a ground loop, I put in a cheap olimex usb isolator and the buzz was gone. I had an older dac then, newer dacs frequently have the isolation built-in so it wouldn't have been a problem.
Alix MPD server -- usb -- Stello DA-100 DAC (ground loop noise)
Alix MPD server -- usb -- olimex isolator -- usb -- Stello DA-100 DAC (noise gone)
Yeah same here. Killed off the ground loop buzz. No other difference but that is a clear benefit for this specific situation
Sure, if you have a poorly-designed DAC that is noisy due to an improperly shielded ground then having a device to break a ground loop is a reasonable bandaid.
Problem is that Audioquest is marketing it for everyone, with claims that it magically makes your music sound superior. If it was only marketed to break ground loops they wouldn’t be pocketing the fortunes they’re making from it based on snake oil claims.
@@srkbear1 this is a common problem with focusrite scarlett interfaces and and my friend's presonus AudioBoxUSB, which are some of the most popular hobbiest/home-studio devices.
But where you using balanced or unbalanced output on these audio interfaces ? 😂 if you use the unbalanced output youre gonna get noise.
Thank you so much for this super informative video! This is the first video I have seen on this channel, and I subscribed straight away 😁😁😁
Let's not forget, audioquest is the brand that also sells power and speaker cables with batteries in them..
How gullible we all are! Thank you for that merciless expose.
The dog did a good job 🤣🤣🤣🤣
He is a smart dog. He is handling all video production for me!
@@AudioScienceReview atta boy!!! 😁😁😁😁 Waiting on the next video drop. 👍👍👍👍😬😬😬😬😬
Amir which DAC do you own? I know you review a lot, but I'm curious which you use primarily?
Is there any benefit to using a linear power supply like a Topping P50?
Another very accurate no bullshit review. Thank you so much!
These Filters fix noise problems but they do not "Enhance" an otherwise healthy (no noise issue) System.
i think that's a fair point
Very interesting as I have been using both the IFi one at the DAC end but couldn’t hear ANY difference so I pulled it out. But the Audioquest was a different matter. This fixed the problem with the usb cable. The cable was making horrible noises and rendering it unusable with my setup. But using the jitterbug made it usable. So whilst I agree that they don’t do anything. It did something. Don’t know what or why but it did. Wonder if you might know. Thanks.
have you ever tested the ifi defender+? I just got it and it does completely eliminate my ground loop issue/ gpu noise every time I move the mouse. The weird thing though is that it increases the high freqs as well as decrease sub bass and makes everything seem a little shaper. Not in a good way either, in a digital strange way. Would love to know whats causing that
i had this problem, and the cause was a bad mobo cap, new board cpu and ram sorted it
and now i use a usb dac no noise and no filter
Perhaps it would've been good if you included a cheap $30 usb galvanic isolator. I believe there are DACs that have and don't have galvanic isolation of the USB input.
So what's the cause of the noise? The data lines? I'm trying to make an electronic stethoscope with an electret-mic board with its own amp, running to an STM32 board that's behaving as a USB audio input device to the PC. I can hear the computer's processing even as I move my mouse across the screen. I slightly reduced the noise by putting a 1k resistor to the usb vcc, then a 10uf cap to ground, then another 1k to the mic-board's vcc, but it's still pretty bad. I was looking for more information before putting some different-sized caps in to try to filter a bit more -- since I don't know what I'm doing... :) --- and I found your video. Thank you. :)
Did you find a solution? I have a synthesizer and it uses separate USB data and power inputs because of this issue. And even then, you have to use an external USB battery power pack because most usb power supplies (like phone chargers) are noisy
You are my new best friend!
Hi amirm, now I'm confused.
I had jitterbug when it came out and I could not hear any difference with or without it. Now yesterday I saw a video from goldensound about DDC with all the graphs and evidence of a cleaner signal when using DDC. I trust you both. So what's the deal.
Great review Amir. Looking forward to your review of power line EMI filters, but wait until Danny does his next video. I challenged him to do a double blind test with EMI filters that I am willing to send him but no dice. He did get back to me to say that "it's not so much whether you cannot hear any noise, but what the noise does to the audio". I don't know of course what he is going to say, but if he starts saying that it beats with the audio, I'm sure you know what to say about that. He may just claim it somehow interacts with the audio without saying how, I don't know. But if he doesn't bring up the addition of a cheap EMI filter and test with it, then he is just part of the problem of avoiding science and not confirming audible differences with LEGITIMATE double blind tests.
Thank you so much for your evidence-based, properly controlled experiments to debunk false claims. I'm learning so much from watching your videos, and I'm recommending your videos to my audiophile friends who spend mega bucks on cables, wires, adapters, conditioners, etc. Please continue educating us.
have you ever found a better usb-to-spdif converter compared to the Berkeley Alpha USB ?
Would be interesting to see a comparison of different DAC's quality. Maybe a low or medium priced DAC compared to a higher quality like Chord or Antelope or other hifi branded DACs, and why not a mastering studio DAC like Dangerous Music or such.
I have tested a number of mastering/pro DACs from RME to Universal Audio.
@@AudioScienceReview Many thanks. RME and UAudio doesn't do "mastering" DACs, although high quality interfaces, with a premium price tag.
Did you post any results you had?
Some computers like Lenovo thinkpads I have noticed have clean USB power. My dell latitude is very dirty. I can literally hear a lot hiss in my audio interface when recording. When I move to the thinkpad, absolutely pristine. I think you should try different computers with unfiltered DACs or USB audio interfaces. The one that I used before I got a better one was the Behringer UM2. It sounded horrible with my Dell when using my mic. I kinda think this device would solve that problem.
You literally just saw that it wouldn't.
Go waste your money though.
is there anything you would recommend to improve USB output
BTW, about data being transferred to a DAC via USB data connection, wouldn't DAC have any kind of error correction since it is digital data? I am kind of thinking like copying files on Windows. If DAC could do that, we wouldn't need to worry about jitters, correct ? Or is this "data" more like digital signal rather than bits of data ? Sorry for my ignorance.
so which filter sounds better? which one to choose in my dac ? all work over 22khz, i cant hear any diff. can you?
Does your dog bark in Hi-Rez now? LOL Would like to see you check out the newer Schiit Unison USB input. Loving your vids, keep it up please!
He does. His dynamic range when barking is way beyond 16-bit CD format. My stomach literally rumbles from the power of his bark when it is dinner time! As to schiit, I did test their latest DAC, the Modi 3+ with that input: www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/schiit-modi-3-review-stereo-dac.18480/
well it works if your PC has jitter, my ifi works well i use it in conjunction with usb b tip from ifi with my high end usb cord, all 3 have effect individually and combined
lol, I only use adum because my laptop generates loud noise at night and it does the job removing it.
idk why everyone ask me if it improves the sound or not when I mentioned that I use it lol
Obviously computer bits sound harsh and clinical, while audiophile bits sound warm and tube-like.
I tried a jitterbug years ago and I heard no change in my system so back it went. I’m willing to try a lot of things and if I hear a change and a change I like then I usually will keep the tweak
I wonder if i could try this device with a USB hub. I had heard a noise floor when i used a hub so i bought a USB to OPT converter.
next on the list, audiophile power cables/power cords/jug cords please? we could start a deadpool this way
Cool man, I got a USB filter thing that I've heard change the noise floor on my soundbar. It's an ifi isilencer. I have three of them, the first one I got has white printed serial number on the gold plated male end. The other two I bought from another source has no printed numbers on the gold plated male end. They're supposed to use active noise cancelation technology, I thought I could plug one into the service port of my soundbar to reduce noise on the bus. I put my ear to the soundbar to where I could hear it hissing and plugged it in, it did make an audible difference in the hiss. I bet if you tested it, it would measure within the audible range. I could send you one of each I have. Sending both, because there is a chance one is counterfeit, but both made an impact.
The results are not detectable on graphs but they are on my ears. The sound through the USB AudioQuest Jitterbug and Dragonfly Red had more separation, clarity and realism then just with the AudioQuest Dragonfly Red.
What if you're running a fully custom watercooled 3090 + 5950 RGB gaming PC? Surely something like the jitterbug helps purify the noise levels
Have you tested them under high GPU load? I have a D10S that outputs noticeable squealing when playing certain games that demand more from my GTX 1070, and what I did to solve that problem currently was to split the 5V and ground wires from the cable into a phone charger.
That’s not what they’re marketed for-they’re promoted as magical devices that improve the audio for all implementations. Certainly there are isolated circumstances where DACs are poorly designed without proper filtering (Topping is not one of them), or when folks have weak links in their system that lead to ground loops or other electrical problems, where something like this expensive gizmo can put a bandaid on that problem. That’s beyond the scope of this review-he’s demonstrating that the Jitterbug is not capable of the claims Audioquest is promoting it for.
I have this problem with the motherboard’s built-in DAC/amp. I’ve seen some motherboards with usb slots meant for external DACs (gigabyte aorus z390)
...which leads me to the question- can you hear audible differences in dacs? I think yes, obviously, But you have this "poor" measuring dac, the Modi 2, and now better versions, my question is which do you prefer to listen to? Could it be the poorer performing dac sounds more pleasing? I think it is a complicated question, possibly on poor recordings the noisier dac might sound better, hiding the crap, or maybe the noise gets interpreted as "air" in the soundstage- and better performing dacs end up sounding less interesting. Which leads me to the question how do measurements, especially now that dacs for example are all measuring very high on your scale, how can we use this information to make choices? Does it end up being listening anyway? A not so veiled subjectivist/objectivist question. thanks for the videos.
The Audioquest Dragonfly usb dongles don't measure well either. They're just HYPED so people think they sound better than they really do. Marketing and hype can drive audio products pretty far cause human hearing is easily manipulated. But if your happy with it, its your money.
Hello amir, can you please make a review about sony mdr-z1r headphones? And what headphones do you think is better than Sonys?
Hi Max. I was supposed to get the MDR-Z1R for testing. I am not sure if it is here yet. If so, I will test it in a couple of weeks. Until I test it, I don't have an opinion of what is better.
Could a battery powered, on-line/always active UPS help filtering out the noise? I read that the PowerQuest® 3 failed to reduce noise which is a expensive surge protector, so i wonder if a constant battery powered UPS could be actually beneficial for noise compared to these type of usb filters/surge protectors. Cheap on-line UPS starts from 160$ and it might be a good investment for other reasons too.
No. A battery can't power anything by itself. You have to put a switching power supply on it to make it useful. Once there, you don't have just a battery powering anything. Batteries by themselves are poor power supplies with declining voltage, internal impedance that is quite complex, etc. I have tested one such device, the Uptone LPS-1 and it did not do well: www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/uptone-lps-1-linear-power-supply-review-and-measurements.1849/
Hi I'm a new fan. Your tests seem a good balance between technicality and real-world usage conclusion.
Have you done any comparison of USB cables? I know Wolfx700 did one and some Lindy cable did better than the others but probably not by any audible margin.
I have indeed. I will see if I can collect them and do a video on them.
You can get eye candy by using food,looking usb cables and that can make you feel good. But unles those usb cables Are not broken, there is no difference in the sound. I have nice looking usb cables in topping d90 because They can be seen so nice looking cable is nice to have but I can not hear the sound difference... just like I did Expect :)
Thanks again, great review. You are indeed stirring the pot.
Speaking of debunking, what about comparing battery versus AC powered Hifi devices ?