Is Lift Off Distance ruining your FPS aim? Quake Veteran Thoughts
Vložit
- čas přidán 8. 09. 2024
- The Lift Off Distance of a mouse is how high the sensor can track when you're lifting the mouse off the desk. We've generally measured it with DVDs but most mice are under 2.6mm (about 2 DVDs) and on the absolute best optical sensors it's below 1.6mm and even below 1mm.
The arguments I've seen have been that because the sensor keeps tracking the movement, people can't get their aim where it should be.
I've asked a few people to clarify but haven't received any concrete answers, so if you think you have a good argument against what I've said in the video, feel free to leave a comment!
Otherwise, hopefully this can finally put your mind at ease... you're not missing because of the lift off distance, it's most likely something else.
Hope that helps! Here are some links:
Top Mice: www.rocketjump...
Mouse Search: www.rocketjump...
If you're buying anything in Australia, you can use my affiliate link with MWAVE here: bit.ly/rocketju...
You can buy using my General Search Amazon Affiliate links here:
Amazon USA amzn.to/29OLzNY
Amazon UK amzn.to/29GNbI9
Amazon Germany amzn.to/29vek0X
Amazon Canada amzn.to/2aRgdTd
Amazon Italy amzn.to/2R6AprN
If you're buying anything from eBay US, you can use my affiliate link:
eBay.com: rover.ebay.com...
_____________________________________
Patreon: / rocketjumpninja
Twitch Streaming: / rocketjumpninja
Website: www.rocketjumpn...
Audio equipment provided by Audio-Technica Australia audio-technica....
USA: inches
Other countries: centimeters
RJN: DVDs
choice
USA: imperial
All other countries: metric
Zy: 1.2 mm thick DVDs (metric)
It's great tho, cause dvd's are universally so thick xD
NickSharpx exactly. Whether you’re American or normal, you can still understand how high the LOD is.
21st century kids dont even know what a dvd is... omegaLUL
Doctor: so zy, how tall are you?
Zy: about like 1200 DVD'S
Doctor: okay wtf what about your weight?
Zy: we'll im actually 500 razer vipers
With a bit of cable
with a chunky 8 inch braided cable
@@frenzied9366 underrated comment
@@frenzied9366 lmaooo
@@frenzied9366 LOL
Guy: hi I prefer mouse with low lift off
RJN: no lol
I play cs, and lift my mouse a lot, However, I'm used to playing the G Pro with the 3366, which basically stops tracking instantly as you lift the mouse even a tiny bit. This is how I've been playing for probably around 3500 hours. So when I play high LOD sensors, my mouse keeps moving as I initiate the lift, as well as starts to track earlier when I finish the lift, which throws my aim off. The steelseries rival 110 is the worst in this regard, however, I also have the same issue with the Viper Mini (shame, it's a really good mouse), and believe it or not, the LOD on the G203 with the mercury is noticable aswell, even though it certainly feels the best out of all the other 'budget sensor' mice (might as well be the similar shape to my main mouse). As a result, I'm still playing a G Pro with the oldschool 3366.
I certainly could get used to high LOD, but I don't feel like it's worth it. It just feels too awkward for me.
I play at around 54 cm/360, just fyi.
Well if you like the Viper mini then "fix" the lod with the mousepad calibration and the tape.
@@lepari9986 I play on a Steelseries Qck Heavy, and I taped the sensor to reduce the LOD, however, there isn't a calibration setting available that doesn't make the mouse behave in a weird way, at least for me. With the tape fix and calibration, the LOD either still seems too high, or so low, that the mouse just stops tracking properly. I even tried using my old goliathus speed, with the corresponding calibration, but didn't have the desired effect for me.
Edit: It's about a month ago since I last had it plugged in. Don't know if there were any firmware or software updates regarding the LOD calibration.
rank?
Agree! Playing CSGO before, Viper Mini was my main, everything about it was so so good EXCEPT the liftoff distance. It just bothers me too much. Hate that I had to sell it to my friend for a cheaper price. But I can't get used to it. I also feel like it's not worth it. Feels awkward. Maybe just me. Oh well. Hello MM710 now
I'm actually doing the same adjustment as you are talking about gpro > viper mini playing csgo. I remember when I first got the gpro, I hated the low lod. then i got used to it. I hated the vipers high lod even after tuning when I recently switched. but after a week of heavy play, I now really enjoy the lighter weight and better cable and gotten used to the higher lod. the thing that actually took most getting used to was the change in sensitivity switching sensors. viper mini sensor feels a lot like the g203 Mercury sensor. gpro doesn't travel as much in a swipe even with same dpi and sens in game.
Most of the time lift off distance feels wrong is when you've been using a low lift off mouse to a higher one. I've experienced this by switching from the g102 to the g304. The first few days it felt hella weird because I was so used to hardly lifting up my mouse.
For me personally, high lift off range throws me off. It could be purely psychological, but the effect is certainly there
noob
@@its_atomic04 excuse you, what?
A N I M E
N
I
M
E
When i was young i liked High LOD, so i could still move my mouse while repositioning it
As a pc gamer for over 15 years, I completely disagree with you on this one. For things like surfing in counterstrike (I would consider myself to be top 120 surfers in the world - beaten all but 3 maps 643/646 completions)
Lift off distance can really make a difference. I think the major difference here is that you use a soft pad. I use a hard - extremely fast c4 ngen - its literally a piece of silicon and is probably the fastest mouse pad you can have. Combining this with a higher sensitivity makes lifting off and replacing the mouse detrimental. 1. The mouse will move alot more when you put it down than on a soft pad where it will simply fall and hit in place. In counter strike surf you need to have extemely smooth motion. This sudden jerk in movement of the mouse literally does effect your speed by several units. This is my only problem with the final mouse ultralight, is that when i place the mouse back down on my hard pad - it starts tracking slightly too soon and causes me to lose a few units in surf. Also, if you are making videos like i do, people enjoy seeing completely smooth motion, having high lift off distance shakes the screen when you place the mouse down. For actual aiming it may not make a difference, but it 100% makes a difference in certain situations like movement in certain engines that can be effected by this combined with high sens / hard pad. Check out my surf handshow to see what im referring to czcams.com/video/CZwiKzauBlo/video.html. LOD is the only feature i miss while using my ultralight phantom compared to my old mionix castor
very cool
+1
I think RJN really does neglect how mice perform in competitive surfing
Completely agree on this point.
You gotta be out of your mind if you think i’m gonna read that whole thing to figure out why you are wrong lol
I use a pretty low sensitivity in general, and lift off distance on my finalmouse has never bothered me. Or on any other mouse I've used.
Same since 3 days ago, g305 on razer strider is very bad for me, the lift off its crazy, i can literally put a finger under my mouse and it still can track, i tilt my mouse when lifting up so i guess this is the problem but my brain do this in automatic, i guess its the fastest thing to reset the mouse on the middle/default zone of the pad, on gsr 0 problem, but i like more the strider i want to use it :(
I noticed lift off distance instantly on my viper mini. So much that I returned it. I've been using mice and never noticed lift off ever before but the viper mini was wildly high. I don't think it's something to focus on but I absolutely believe that it can mess with your mental and aim if your not used to it
100% agree. I didn't even know it had a higher LOD but when I tried it coming from the o- I noticed it quickly and it threw off my game a bit. Probably could've gotten used to it if I'd given it more time but it was annoying me enough that I stopped using the Viper mini again.
@@123Suffering456 Exactly the same thing. I came from using a o- as well and the Viper was completely unusable in my opinion. I wish It was lower because I actually love the shape and quality of the mouse beside the LOD
Same here, coming from Roccat Kone Pure which basically stops tracking the moment you lift your mouse. In contrast Viper Mini was so noticeable that I returned it right away.
Viper mini has a crazy high lift off distance. I ended up putting tape under the sensor to fix it, but I'm a bit annoyed that some mice have perfect distance while others still have this issue. Is it that difficult to tune a mouse sensor height? why have some companies perfected it and others haven't?
@@oocelot3040 it is a cheaper sensor from my knowledge. Shame that the Deathadder V2 Mini also has the same cheaper sensor and perhaps poorly implemented "shrinked" shaped from popular OG deathadder shape.
I'm hoping for a Viper Mini Ultimate though.
At least for myself, it isn't a mental thing. The Viper Mini is amazing, but I absolutely had to adjust it with tape and the mousepad software config. I would constantly have it moving without me wanting to. This is something that can be adjusted with time, but that isn't the point. I don't have an issue aiming and moving the mouse generally speaking, but the constant shifting has caused me to have to re-adjust constantly and it gets tiring. Also, to be more precise, the main source of unintentional movement would happen when I go to set the mouse down after picking it up.
I do believe that it comes down to adjusting to the LOD and to "git gud", but to immediately dismiss complaints as a mental block is a bit silly. People over think their hardware, myself included, but being sensitive to your hardware is just part of being a competitor.
The viper mini is the main right now and I'm loving it. But the LOD isn't "messing" with my shots persay but it's annoying whenever I have to readjust the mouse it changes the angle I was holding, which doesn't happen or happens very minimally with low LOD mice.
Agreed. I still can't decide wether it's preference thing, I've had Viper Mini as my main before and I loved it, everything was so good about it EXCEPT the lift off distance. It annoys me to the point where I would get tilted when trying to readjust the position of the mouse pointer/crosshair. Changed to a MM710 now. Feels much better (in terms of LOD)
I just switched to the viper mini after g Pro which has one of the shortest lift off distances ever. it's quite annoying to change how I swipe but after a week, its fine now. I also used the software to change the lod smaller using the mouse pad adjustment in synapse.
@Syncreer I had the original g pro wired, it has a braided cable and also 90g. the mouse is also slippery as shit and the shape is awkward. I did 2k hours with it so I got used to playing with it but glad to change to a 60g mouse without a braided cable.
yeah same haven't noticed the LOD messing with my actual aim.
@Syncreer actually a huge upgrade, g pro shape is terrible
One thing I’m noticing is that Zy stabilizes the reset with his wrist (probably as a result of being used to a higher sens).
For people who are accustomed to low sens and stabilize with the elbow (arm aim), high LOD introduces an extra jiggle that messes us up when trying to stabilize the mouse coming down. More points of movement have an easier time compensating for LOD reset.
In games like CS with low sens, the wrist is usually locked when swiping, meaning there is only one point of motion to reset the lift.
A high LOD didn’t stop me from trying the viper mini. I bought the mouse and then noticed it was a problem when getting home.
Yeah, aiming technique is something what Zy didnt take to consider. For him, his technique makes the wrist rise more upwards, where mostly arm aimers just lift their arm, not wrist what makes mouse slide so close on the pad you hardly get DVD in there. So he's kinda correct for his style of aiming. Zy is mouse expert, not something what FPS Couch Rambo is who can notice stuff like this.
I use a 204 edpi for valorant and have never experienced a jiggle.
@@RulezXP Sorry I found it amusing when I saw Couch Rambo, but does he have a video on this?
I somewhat disagree. My experience: CSGO, 800edpi, Logitech G203. When I play, I expect the mouse to only move when it's touching the mouse pad. The 203 is very good at that, since the LOD is under 1 DVD on my Qck. When I do a fast flick, I want to readjust as quickly as possible by moving the mouse back into a comfortable position with the cursor right where I want it to be. Now, a more extreme example would be a trash "gaming" mouse with a 3212 sensor that I had the privilege to try. The LOD was legit at least 4 DVDs and amongst many other problems with the sensor, it caused the cursor to not land at the precise spot I expect after the readjustment, because it tracked the unwanted movements in mid air.
Now, for a more realistic example, SPC Gear Lix, cheap, honeycomb mouse, 3325, LOD of about 1-2 DVDs. Not bad by any means. And while the issue is much, MUCH less common now, there are instances where it still happens. And as stupid as it might sound, that split second of having to adjust again can be vital (mostly in CSGO, cause precise crosshair placement isn't AS important in Arena FPS).
However, it is an extremely minor issue and might not even be an issue for most people, because first, they might have a different playing style/are already used to mice with a slightly higher LOD and second, you can probably get used to it easily.
For me, since I'm used to the 203, anything over 1 DVD makes me question my life decisions. For somebody else, they might not care in the slightest. That's my take on it.
Thankyou! I thought I was the only one feeling like so. I don't agree with RJN on this one.
"question my life decisions" LMFAO I swear the same thing happened and I felt like a useless piece of turd.
At the end of the day it's all preference really but alot of people blame high lod for their trash aim
Same here, I really think high LOD can screw you over in some cases if your muscle memory has been used to low LOD for a long time
@@theycallmepotatoma not hating on zy but he isnt a ranked precision player kind of games ... i dont see pros use razer cause its on his top list ... like he said everyone is different maybe he should try other games like csgo or valorant just for the sake of more precision games to tell .. if he is playing a game where high sense and ur good to go .. u cannot say which mouae is better only with tracking
I've been trying to make the argument for a while that higher liftoff distance like the viper mini is arguably a good thing for such lightweight mice. With really light mice, there's a tendency to accidentally tilt the mouse when moving it, and higher LOD helps compensate for that and preserves the tracking in more scenarios. I say this as someone who moved away from the viper mini, not because of the LOD (which was fine), but because I preferred something a little more low profile. So I don't really have a buyer's bias here.
It all depends on how you lift your mouse. I barely lift my mouse when moving so when using a mouse with high LOD, the mouse will track while it's in the air. This only happens roughly once an hour. So if I want to hold an angle, I'll move my mouse into position then lift the mouse to recenter on my pad, but the mouse still tracks and I'm looking in the original direction.
I think lift of distance is just something that bothers people because they see the small movement of the cross hair or cursor and they think that's what's making them miss or choke
that minute movement is there and thats true, but that could be potentially solved by technique (aim by keeping it down instead of lifting) but that would mess up a lot of people who are used to low sens/flicking
@@LtGeorge01 from what I've noticed as somebody who's played on low sens the futher I moved my arm from the resting position the worse my aim becomes. Do Air 777 in Kovaaks and you will notice it
@@shainallala6336 thats true for me as well, I'm a high sens player. The moment i get off resting position its harder to aim.
@@LtGeorge01 This is Shainal Lala on a diff account. I have a sought of square where my aim is good kind of the size of a general mousepad out of that I can still aim but it is not as good
Hilarious cuz one of my friends just mentioned people that use an x-axis toggle button for when they reach the edge of their mousepad. You press it, and it switches the directions on your x-axis so you can keep turning. Mind boggling how someone plays with that.
OnlyNeedJuan that’s crazy, I like using weird settings and binds, so I might look into that.
I have never felt bothered by a lift off distance. I'm now 31 years old with about 20 years of fps game 'experience'.
And I've also never heard a real high level aimer to seriously complain about lift off distance.
"i lift my mouse 1 dvd"
I wanna see a video compairing ptfe feet with the standard ones that come with mice.
Why? PTFE is Teflon. Smooth/cheap enough for everyone.
I personally prefer my LOD to be low. As I've been using low LOD mice for years now (since i started using zowie mice), my issue with high LOD isn't while picking up the mouse or putting it down again but while actually moving my mouse over the mouspad to reset my mouse position. I swipe that low over the mousepad, that with mice like the old Roccat Kones I'd do 180s while resetting my mouse because it tracks the entire time. Sure, i could get used to swiping higher over the mousepad, but i really dont see a reason to.
yea same problem for me
and swiping lower is faster anyways
iHX yeah i agree. it’s almost like unnecessary effort and movement, and competitively, that’s less effective.
Yeah same group but your coach 'Zy' will tell you that is issue with you and you not self-developing xD. For example look at NBA jump shots. There are so many ways of shooting the basket and a lot of techniques/parts of the throw are correct and "optimal" but a lot still comes to a personal preference and even body proportions. A lot of coaches ruined tons of shooting techniques just buy telling players to shoot 'their correct way'. If changing LOD works for Zy, that's perfectly fine for him but dude I thought he has more imagination/empathy to understand we differ as people and the factor that for some people that has been playing with low LOD for 10+ years might not make sense to change it for bigger if they don't have to.
Lift-off distance becomes an issue for me when it's too low and causes issues with tracking as the mouse hits the pad after a swipe. I've noticed some mice have feet that eat into that super low lift off distance value too much, and cause tracking issues like skipping because it's just too low. I'm convinced the first release of the EC-B had skipping issues because of the feet being too thick for the default lowish lift off distance. My skipping issues with that mouse disappeared with a high LOD, but then it felt icky.
But high lift-off distances never really bothered me, at least not since the old mice with super high LODs that used to track while your arm was still in the air XD it can be a bit confusing when you swipe and the tracking kicks in sooner than you expected, causing you to overshoot. So I guess it comes down to what you're used to, the mouse you're using, your swiping motion, and whether you've put skates on, or replaced the feet with thicker/thinner ones. I've tried different LODs with the Viper and not noticed much of an issue personally.
The problem some people have with LOD is more so if they are wrist players(or really high sens players).
You are more prone to ineffective tracking just lifting off essentially the front of the mouse and if the sensor doesn't stop tracking instantly, your aim/crosshair gets offset in a really bizzare way when you put the mouse down or pick it up.
that's true
Weird thing is that it does for me sometimes. Im an arm aimer and when I lift my mouse I lift it very low causing my crosshair to move.
Same thing just got it and was werided out from the lod
Yeah same for me. It actually bothers me quite a bit when I'm jiggle peaking a corners and lifting my mouse very low.
I would have to disagree rjn, the muscle memory from a gpro wireless throws me off bad when moving to viper mini. However you can adjust, but it definitely makes a difference
which one is better for you?
What does it had to do with lod
David BaGuetta because you get used to tilting the mouse with the g pro wireless and cutting the motion, but with viper mini it still is tracking even after tilting your mouse
@@davidbaguetta127 when you do swipes if you are swiping low off the ground your crosshair will move since it's still tracking. I'm assuming rocket jump ninja raised his mouse higher than some people. this is why he doesnt feel it moving since he's moving it so high up it's no longer tracking. people like me we do low swipes because that's is what we are used to. so unless you want to change up your whole movement then this mousse isnt for you.
On the Zowie Mice, you can actually adjust the lift off distance to be higher by holding down Button 4 + Button 1 + Button 2 while re-connecting the mouse through USB. I'm amazed they don't have it like this, by default right out the box, because a lot of people are going use it on a plain table and assume the mouse just doesn't work at all
The lift off distance on the viper mini was unusable...until I took it in game and literally never noticed it 😂 my favourite mouse now!
I recently got a razer viper ultimate, and after years of using the g602, the decrease in weight and liftoff distance has given me the opposite problem- sometimes I'm holding my mouse above my mousepad and don't realize it, and the sensor is too far from the mousepad to register movement. Obviously, this is has improved with time, but I find it kind of funny that I'm having issues with liftoff distance for the opposite reason that most people claim.
literally the same reason why i am watching this video as well lmao
LOD is important when you play fingertip (I mean moving the mouse from wrist down). 16cm for 360 is very slow if you only move the mouse with the fingers/palm. (yes Im the guy that uses 4cm for 360 again ...hahaha). So with this high sensitivity I needed the G-Pro's wired 0.7mm lift off distance. Unfortunately mouse wheel started to have issued and I tried G203 , 1.4mm lift off , huge difference. Also in your video you where right and G203 is more difficult to lift it from the desk compared to GPro(wired) , something is wrong with the sides. LOD is so important for my sensitivity that Im tryng to avoid the new GPro (Hero sensor) because they say it detects lift off automatically ...no way that it will detect the old GPros 0.07mm (after calibration). ....in other words with my sensitivity 0.07mm and 1.4mm have such a huge difference that its annoying even when Im watching You Tube and the cursor hops around a little (with 1.4mm). (also about G203...the sensor does not work properly on my desk , so its the first time in my life that I will have to buy a mouse pad )
Thank you man 💛. I have a small hand and I wanted to get the viper mini but i was afraid of the LOD. I’m going to buy it now 👏🏼
How's your experience with it after these 3 months? I'm curious.
Coming from Logitech mouse, there's a difference. Viper mini at the same settings is a little faster and the LOD causes a bit of camera spin before it touches the mat. Because you don't feel it, doesn't mean others don't .
exactly, just because RJN lift his mouse higher than 2 dvd to do swipes does not mean other who lift their mouse 1 dvd or under will not feel it.
When I was using Viper Mini instead of my O-, I was always deconcentrated when my crosshair moved when I did lift the mouse up. I guess it's very personal case.
Although the shape for fingertip was much more comfortable on O-, so I went back to it, on Viper Mini my hand was going very far on the mouse to grip the mouse comfortable
Akatrosh did the LOD bother you on viper mini ? Or ruin your aim?
At first it ruined my aim a bit, but later I think it was only distracting me
@@akatrosh6519 Glorious PC is the goat anyway. I'm rocking a model O right now and the only thing that will make me buy a new mouse is a model O wireless. It's the most underrated mouse out there imo.
@@theburgundynetwork3432 I agree, if only the shell was a bit better built, it would be absolutely best mouse. Looking forward to try D-.
I more often have problems with a lift off distance that is too low.
Really wish more mice could provide the option to adjust the lift off.
Seems to be the case for me as well, I perform better with a low lod but not too low.
Lift off distance at least to me, helps not one bit, and really doesn't matter
I am using a deathadder v2 mini, it is similar to viper mini, just a different shape.
The mouse allows for lower lift off distance, but if you do make it lower, on any mousepad, the sensor will fuck up and be inaccurate.
Basically, sometimes when you move the mouse, it won't even register that you moved it even when you are not lifting it off the mousepad, also it constantly changes the sensitivity on your mouse, maybe it is the dpi that it is changing constantly, but whatever it is doing is making it like a much worse version of windowses mouse acceleration feature, infact it is nothing close to that, this is soo much worse, It almost acts like a mouse you would buy from a shady company like RedDragon, some 20$ mouse that is said to be a gaming mouse because it has adjustable light colors, and nothing more. The sensor in that thing is so dogshit, where the DeathAdder v2 Mini, just buy lowering the liftoff distance, almost acts the same as that mouse, Just in this case, My mouse would sometimes react to me moving the mouse fast, and most of the time not. What the actual fuck is that?
Edit: I recommend not using the calibration in the razer software, and not changing the Liftoff distance at all, you should play at what it is set as default, Whatever else you do, you're just messing it up, not making it better.
Personally I have had problems with liftoff distance, that sometimes can be an annoying thing when I use other mice (at the height I usually lift my mouse to drag it, those other mice would register the input, making it very annoying to play high sens with)
Not everyone wants to improve at games. In fact, most people just want to have the more straight forward experience they can, and minor differences in the way you have to use your mouse can make a difference IMO.
Your underlying message of self improvement is very important, but I wouldn't try to slip it in every video. Ofc you can get used and embrace every feature of your hardware, but this doesn't mean people are willing to (and that's not ever a bad thing. There are things to do other then get good at video games).
Btw great videos keep it up, I love the mouse I bought bcs of them.
tbh i prefer a higher lift off distance as sometimes when im tracking an enemy i lift the back of my mouse a little resulting in the mouse not tracking
yes
why lift
@@DanielS-zq2rr Because his grip style results in him pushing the front of the mouse in raising the rear. It's not an intentional lift, it's a consequence of his grip style.
that is what has been starting to happen to my gpw because of the hyperglides
I wonder if it could be due to table height as well, since a higher table means more effort to lift a mice when your hand is already slanted upwards
idk why everyone is meming about the dvds lol i thought that everyone used that measurement for liftoff
because memes are fun
Cause people are dumb & they have 0 common sense
Yeah I'm also confused. I thought people would've known its common to measure LOD with DVD's
Almost 20y quake (starting Q2 as a small kid) and never had issues with a good mouse that have a high liftoff distance. After the initial phase of getting used from the previous mouse - all is perfect as with any other new mouse. That’s mainly on around 21-23cm/360 for most of the years, but confirmed up to 30cm/360 and as low as 1cm/360 - no joke, used it for about 2 months, razer lachesis was the mouse back then and the liftoff was not an issue even with that absurd sens. There were other issues like primary strafe aim for everything hitscan, but that’s beside the topic.
I had the Kana V2, which had a really high lift-off distance (probably more than 2 DVDs), and it definitely affected my gameplay. To the point where it was the primary reason I stopped using the mouse, even though I had no other big problems with it.
from my personal point of view, it depends on the game you're playing.
i play osu! with mouse only, meaning i aim and click on a mouse. it requires more control over the grip and finger positioning. i've developed claw grip over time, and it also plays the role in lod preference. like i always tend to lift my mouse naturally with my grip. also, with lower lod, i've used to have issues when going to angles where my wrist would twist and it would lift the mouse just enough for it to stop tracking.
you might also want to look into the shape of the mouse, bc the angle your fingers are placed might affect on how you lift it (mentioned accidental lifts)
It's weird because in my early days of PC gaming, I would always prefer high LOD, but since I got mice with good sensors, high LOD bothers me now.
you know razer project mcfly? we need a low weight mouse with a 50mm LOD sensor.
Fun fact: Just because RJN doesn't see any issues with LOD doesn't mean It's true for everyone. I personally can feel the difference and It does dictate If a mouse Is for me or not. For example, the Rival 3 and viper mini is an instant no from me based purely on the LOD. It's personal preference.
Thank you Zy! Just ordered viper mini yesterday and saw those discussion on the LOD of that mouse kinda made me feel regret. This video has made my day
So 9 months later what do you think of it?
hey man, so how does it goes?
A mouse that really exemplify the problem of lift-off-distance for me was the CM Spawm v1.
I had very hard time adjusting because the mouse was so heavy 120g and palm grip oriented.
It takes LONGER TO LIFT THE MOUSE HIGHER and my hand memory was not used to the height it was supposed to be lifted.
In game it translated of me making "cursor spin out like movements" because I expected the mouse to stop tracking in the air but It was still doing it.
The Ninox Aurora with it's similar lift-off distance had is lighter+slimmer allowing easier/higher lifting moves.
I was playing with mid / high sens back them, that sens increase the frequency we lift of.
My conclusion is : YES it matters depending of your muscle memory, grip style, sensi, mouse physical stats.
and YES you can also have the opposite lift-of problem is you expect the mouse to track BEFORE it rest completely on the desk after you reposition it.
I'm using the Razer Viper Ultimate for a few weeks now and i hated the standard lift-off distance too. But I found a solution for it: Calibrate your mouse pad. If that does not work, you can change the manual calibration surface distance to LOW. Keep asymmetric cut-off unchecked. That worked wonders for me. I had tracking issues with Zowie mice too, back in the days. I fixed that by putting a little bit of electrical tape over hole where the sensor is scanning for movement. Don't cover it all, but just a little bit. This will help block a little bit of 'light' from the LED.
The Razer Viper Ultimate is very good. Only complaint are the left thumb buttons. I just keep pressing in both at the same time :')
I play these games for well over 20 years now and you can really tell when lift-off distance is the problem or not. I just hate it when i pick up my mouse and it still moves a little bit. Yes you can get used to that but i just don't like it.
I play with a ~16.5cm / 360, fingertip-grip wrist aimer. The LOD is absolutely a problem, it's not so bad if you're constantly moving and aiming like quake, but in slower games, e.g. CSGO, you'll find the LOD rears its ugly head A LOT.
Little things that you used to take for granted are suddenly getting you killed, e.g. using tracking aim on a corner, and then switching to pre-aim to trying to hold an angle or peek someone.
After tracking aim, you naturally want to re-centre your hand position so flicks are consistent, but with the Viper Mini LOD I found my crosshair skittering around as I lifted the mouse, ruining my pre-aim and slowing me down. If there's a guy on the other side of the angle, bam! I'm dead. I can't just click the mouse and kill them because the crosshair was dragged to the side or downward while adjusting my aim. If I spend extra time transitioning from tracking aim to pre-aim to ensure the mouse won't get me killed, sometimes I'll miss opportunities in timing, it gives other players a chance to get behind cover or adjust their aim or finish reloading.
Other things, like holding pixel-perfect angles with a sniper rifle are also affected. If your hand is out further than you would like, and want to slightly adjust it, you can't just lift the mouse and keep aiming, instead the crosshair gets moved away, and you're forced to keep adjusting and moving the mouse in these little 'micro lifts', getting annoyed the whole time as you find your hand wandering out further and further to compensate for the low-quality sensor.
I ended up getting my hands on the closed LOD-fix beta, and the mouse has gone from unusable to my main (from the MM711), but I still find instances where I get annoyed by it, and I'm sorely tempted at times to go back to the MM711... Why couldn't Razer just use a good quality sensor in the Mini? Everything else about it is so good and high-quality, including their optical switches.
still the Viper Mini is the lightest moyce with only 60g that doesn't follow the path of trypophobia to reduce the weight so that's something for me. The honey cone design is starting to be the go to light mouse design nowadays now by manufacturers instead of keeping the shell intact and trying to reduced the weight.
Liftoff height plays a critical role if you play high sens with your wrist planted on the pad.
I've been playing this way since Quake 2 Instagib and the action is basically me "brushing" the mousepad frequently to reset my hand at center of the pad so I can flick relative to center. Liftoff height is thus very important and old laser mice were completely unusable.
I am using Viper Mini on 800dpi. The LOD was very obvious and annoying to me for the first two days, but after that I somehow "learned" not to trigger this effect. By effect I mean slight movement when I put the mouse down in the motion.
I don't quite understand why would you say that someone doesn't have enough argument, because in your experience this problem doesn't exist. It does exist but it's not a deal breaker. After some time you just get used to that mouse and adjust your movement, so that this LOD "effect" doesn't appear anymore.
Anyhow, Viper mini is great and you will get use to that sensor.
I don't have any issues with LOD but I may be able to offer a possible explanation/an analogy.
Think of when you were a kid and buying new shoes. When going up in size you had to get used to it at first and may have dragged/bumped the tip of your shoe on the ground.
Now, maybe that's just me and I was bad at walking or whatever but I think it makes sense as a comparison, when switching to a mouse with a higher LOD you have to adapt and get used to lifting your mouse that tad bit higher to avoid any hickups.
Of course it's not much an issue with shoes, you (usually) don't trip and fall. It's just a bit of an 'interruption' of sorts.
The same may be true for those experiencing issues with a higher LOD (such as the viper minis), I'm assuming it doesn't *really* mess with their aim, it's merely a bothersome inconsistency in their gameplay. Granted that can be detrimental to ones performance for the period of time it takes to fully adjust to the new mouse.
To me it seems to be down to personal preference, just like shape (to a much lesser extent of course). You can adjust to mostly anything but certain shapes are naturally more comfortable and therefore are less of a barrier between you and your in-game character.
I hope this makes sense to some of you
The fact that I know what lod is means it must make a difference. I just bought a rival 3, I noticed it kept tracking when I tried to reposition my mouse. I googled "mouse keeps tracking too high off surface" and learned about lod. If it makes no difference for you that means you must be lifting your mouse high enough for it to not make a difference.i barely lift my mouse at all, so it's the difference between night and day.
hey ninja. i think there is one very important thing you didn't adress: the problem - especially with the viper mini - is not the high LOD but that there is a much wider zone in which it tracks ERRATICALLY. zowie mice for instance either TRACK - accurately - or they DON'T. if you move the viper mini across the pad while slowly lifting it up or tilting it it starts to jitter at one point and keeps jittering for a good while until a second point where it finally stops tracking altogether. if you do that with a zowie for instance it tracks and then - BOOM - stops tracking. this 'funky' zone on mice like the viper is in my opinion what is throwing people off, at least for me it is, since it is a huge zone of inconsistency. the pad options in synapse can't fix that and i've tried them all. therefore i think the sensor is badly designed in this regard. keep up the great content dude. love, v4n.
first mouse was the Logitech G300s, which is bad when it comes to lift off distance and being a person who lifts his mouse a lot, causes drags and inaccurate turns. It moving when its in the air causes a lot of inaccuracy and throws me and many off when flicking. The G300s' lift off distance is probably 3-4 DVDs and is an incredible issue. I used the G403, Model O, Deathadder, and G Pro which had high quality sensors and low liftoff distance. High lift off distance is a make it or break it issue for me and I feel like its only an issue for those who only use low dpi and flick often.
I read a post on reddit about razer viper mini complaining about the lod and how it throws of their aim and tbh I think they are just making excuses that they can't play well with it. Another comment about the lod that I found hysterical was when a guy was complaining about having to lift up the mouse 2x higher than usual and thqt causing his hand to cramp up when in reality the mouse was too small for him.
I've never knew LOD was a thing until i swapped from a g305 to a Model O-. At the beginning I noticed the Model O- would stop tracking quite frequently to the point I thought it was a flaw in the sensor. Gave it a few weeks and now I actually prefer the lower LOD. This weird feeling I was getting could be related to the shape/grip style used/weight difference of both mice since the Model O- is quite different imo to the stock g305 and it ended up affecting the way I've moved the mice. That might be why a bad first experience throws a lot of people off when it comes to changing their mice for a different one with a different LOD.
i want my mouse to stop tracking when i lift a little. I've never had a problem with lift off distance aside from in the coolermaster alcor (not a good mouse)
I'm genuinely suprirsed that nobody has made a mouse with deliberately high liftoff and some sort of magnetic levitation system to acheive 0 friction.
Sounds cool in theory, but if your not anchored to anything your hand/arm well get fatigued, and your mouse would be really shaky in-game. I would like see something like a Wacom drawing pen with a mouse sensor in it.
@@nex3877 yeah most people say they like low friction but they cant handle low friction mousepads. If you want to see something that would look like 0 friction use the Glorious Helios
That idea is the worst ever lmao, have you ever forced something against magnetic forces? It pushes the object left and right if its a strong opposing magnetic force.
Razer project mcfly: are you challenging me?
1:12
"When things get intense, I have to move my aim around a lot, especially in Instagib."
- Proceeds to kill two opponents, one after the other, all while looking in the same direction
I have had low lift-off distance ruin my aim. I use a GSR pad which is quite soft and I have found that mice that have under one DVD lift off I sometimes lose tracking under intense arm aim movements where my mouse may tilt slightly, which is unavoidable if you play low sens on fast paced games on soft mats. Even NiKo has tilt slams. I prefer a medium to high lift off distance because I find my mouse lifts to be quite deliberate anyways, and I have never had accidental inputs occur even with the 3310. What I do notice as an arm aimer, is that poorly implemented sensors will rotate inconsistently on fast 180s due to moving a long distance quickly, but I haven't run into that in a very long time. I believe most sensors now are well enough implemented that input lag is the only stat that catches my eye anymore.
It's all down to how efficiently you can lift the mouse, obviously if you lift it at 8+ DVD height it isn't going to matter at all because you're consistently lifting it at a height that no mice will track at. But if you lift it more efficiently like at like a 2 dvd height like myself and many others it's a pain in the ass when half the mice track at that and half don't. Very simple concept to be fair, guess it's not really thought about much for people who lift their mice high - I guess that's a lot of people. Not saying myself and a lot of others consistently lift their mouse at a 2 dvd height but when I do it's a pain when it tracks, and frankly in an ideal world I would like to consistently lift the mouse at 2/3 dvd height - just because you can get the mouse tracking faster and it doesn't throw off your hand movements as much.
My aim style revolves around mouselifting, with my thumb, ring, and pinky fingers acting as a tripod, in order to flick in a manner that looks robotic. I have found that a high lift off distance is preferable for this. Almost every factor does count toward success depending on how it is measured in the context of what it affects and the manners you prefer. Most people don't aim this way, however, so I suspect most people are just making up excuses.
Very high sensitivity player here (1000 dpi, Glorious Helios, Roccat Kova, cod sens is around 24, csgo sens is 7.27 with mouse accel set to 1.05):
HIGH LIFTOFF DISTANCE IS NOT A REAL ISSUE.... You kinda get the muscle memory down of how exactly to lift the mouse to reajust without moving the crosshair too much... my Crosshair definitely moves a few pixels in either direction when lifting, but that distance is never enough to really matter, as it's almost always still on target or because I placed my mouse back on the pad to complete the reason why I lifted the mouse in the first place.
When you become as degenerate as my sensitivity: you have bigger problems to worry about.... like good ergonomics, wrist and finger exercises to prevent tendonitis, not relying entirely on your wrist, the fact that you sacrificed the smooth movement required for circle jumps (cod) in exhange for fast aim that jitters if you're not paying attention to your nerves.
tweaking the viper mini a bit with synapse literally makes it stop tracking under 1 DVD
People complain about LOD, but I have never noticed it unless the sensor actually freaks out when I put the mouse back down, which has happened with more than a few mouse.
I've been having a hard time sticking to one sensitivity. I've been playing warzone with my friends. I've gone from 30cm feeling right to having no accuracy with nerves so I went to 60, was consistent with aim but felt a tad bogged down when snapping to multiple targets. Finally, I've tried 40 and 50cm. 40 has even started feeling too hard to control when I tense up. It seems my right sensitivity is between that and 50. Hell maybe 45 or something. It's crazy because when I first tried 40 I thought it was incredibly slow! I aim primarily with my arm.
Hi, how this helps. Had same issue, it's more psychological as you play bad you think your sensitivity is bad and you keep changing it, just force hard your self to stick to one. I'm linking this video hope this method helps you finding right sens.
czcams.com/video/uxBuiD11WDM/video.html
literally never got how people get annoyed by lift off distance, always liked a big one instead of a really small one
Hi, I am Korean. Your video was very helpful. Thank you for translating. I'm a modern warfare player and I use a viper mini. There were a lot of reviews that it was not good when playing FPS games because of LOD, but I didn't feel it at all. I was convinced after watching your video. Thank you.
LOD was never an issue for me so I'll go for the Viper Mini. I really like that mouse because of its size and weight.
Update: I got the Viper Mini and the LOD "issue" is a joke to me. I don't understand why people complain about that. I used it for different games and I noticed a great improvement overall.
Well for one the new batches have a firmware update already applied which lowered the lift of distance from 3 dvds to 2 dvds
Yeah it's the same as the G502 LOD
I think this has more to do with the relationship between the particular mouse and mousepad that you're using. Case in point: the Logitech G Pro wired that I've been using for over 2 years now I've had zero issues with LOD UNTIL I started using the LethalGamingGear Venus mousepad. Now the LOD is ridiculously tall.
Conversely I've never had LOD issues with the Razer Viper Mini with any of the mousepads that I've used before. Using this mouse on the LGG Venus and, surprisingly, I still don't have LOD issues. So I think YMMV greatly depending on your preferred combo. Slight variations in LOD aren't a huge issue IMHO, but when you see a huge change, then yeah, it can be a big deal.
I swapped from a very low lift of distance mouse I had for like 5 years to a very high one very recently and honestly it's amazing how cast you adapt to it.
Viper mini has been my main mouse since it came out....anyway you CAN adjust the LOD, I just use the goliathus speed mat calibration (since it is the one I use) and LOD is 1dvd so....no problem at all. I have a g203 and a DE elite v2 and....VM is just so much better.I hope razer keep producing it in the next years since if this one breaks, i´ll need another one lol. Even if you couldnt adjust LOD, you´d adapt eventually after a week. I believe most people tend to think it is the high LOD whats messing with their muscle memory, but what´s truly messing it´s the 60 gr and the pure teflon feets, the first thing I noticed with the VM was that it "glided" soooooo much better through the mat, going from a 80-90 gr mice to a 60gr one is a HUGE change.
I'm strongly against this video. I am a Valorant and CS GO player and bought the Viper Mini and noticed a lot of times when I would reposition my mouse it would shake or adjust ever so slightly. I did not understand why till I looked into LOD. Never had this issue with the Model O- so the Viper Mini is completely unusable to me which is a shame cause I like it overall better than the O-
For me a lower lift of distance is better because i can do faster flicks with lower sens because crosshair is more stable and i lift the mouse shorter(or at least this is how my brain works), BUT, i don't say it's a general thing because i play like that for 6 years so at the end of the day it's (again) all about how you get used to play, not the actual lift off and other marketing gimmicks.. the only important thing is to have a stable sensor, a comfortable mouse shape and you are good to go!
I really want to see options for extra high LOD in mice.
in a video about mouse pads you talked about skin irritation on the MP510, and so I thought of something you might like. In MTB you can get Cycling sleeves, these are meant to warm your arms while having a T-shirt on, But the can also be used when gaming. My theory is that this will also reduce drag as the sleeves don't have as much friction as your skin, but also that they will reduce skin irritation from the MP510 and similar mouse pads. I do understand that you live in Australia, Where it is very warm so you could probably make some ventilation holes or try and find some that already have some sort of ventilation.
I talked with my friends about it and they said that some pro players in CS:GO use these (namely Dev1ce) and while I have yet to confirm it I wanted to share this with you to see if you might be interested in experimenting with this. Love you videos and hope I made it readable.
I have around 12 different mice all with different lift off distances. I have no issue switching between all of them. Its just a mental thing.
It definitely comes down to personal preference, my first mouse had a very high LOD and this was the reason I upgraded. My current mouse has an adjustable LOD. The difference between 2mm and 3mm is very noticeable to me and I can't stand a high LOD
For my part, I am currently on a Roccat EMP, I did the test with the Roccat Swarm software: distance control unit set to (low), I lift my mouse by 1cm and I put it down, I have the cursor that moves from 5 mm to 6 mm ~ , on the desktop. the sensor set to (very low) the mouse cursor moves from 3 to 4 mm ~ approximately and making a custom calibration: 1 to 3 mm
Lift off distance was never an issue for me.
My G502 SE has less than 1 DVD (lol) and using it at 32cm for 180° (64cm 360°, as per your exemples).
Good thing with a small lift off distance is you don't even need to lift it ; Just tilt it to its side while re-centering and it's all good ;)
This video is like saying, "just get used to the mouse shape. Don't find a mouse that fits your hand, stop blaming your performance on the mouse shape being awkward and hard to hold." Having a high lift off distance creates no advantages as far as I can tell and at worst it creates problems or distractions for some users. From my own experience, I can get used to mice with mild lift off problems, but there's still that weird inconsistency when the mouse tracks in the wrong direction briefly as I'm turning quickly or jitters weirdly when repositioning. At the end of the day though, I can't see why there's any reason to accept high lift off. My Zowie from 2015 tracks perfectly on all surfaces and has
I was really afraid of getting the viper mini bc of it's high lod, but the shape is just gold for me, now i'm 100% going for it
I kinda like the hight lod, I think it's more of getting used to it
I just ordered a Razer Viper Mini and a Razer Bungee V2 at amazon. Excited for it to arrive. This video gives me confident that the Viper Mini is a good choice. I also watched your Viper Mini review which is very useful. Great job man as always.
I got new mouse that had lift off distance configuration. I was wondered if it is affecting gaming experience in any way, and I am glad to find out that I do not need to think about :D.
Thanks for the video!
It's a preference. I spent years playing with an Intellimouse and learned to play with high LOD. To this day I actively prefer mice with slightly higher LOD because I am used to being able to apply a small amount of control when the mouse isn't nailed to the mousepad. But in the order of things it comes low down the list of reasons I would select a mouse.
the only case where LOD becomes important is if you have to lift your mouse mid-fire, which never happens unless the person you're tracking somehow spinning circles around you
Like a lot of aspects of gaming mice, it's a preference thing. I find high LOD uncomfortable to play with. I also find small mice uncomfortable and difficult to use, which is the complete opposite of your preferences. What I'm getting at is that these things actually do matter, it just depends on the individual.
One reason I'm looking into low lift off distance is to reduce any risk of spin outs, such as the ones covered in your "Sensor Problem - Tracking Initiation Speed?" video.
Now I do try to avoid sensors such as 3310 and others with this issue, however with previous mices using 3310 I did notice those spinouts, tested on three diferrent mices or settings, they appeared less and less frequent with a lower lift off distance. Trying to avoid sensors known with this issues, I'm still looking into lift off distance to avoid risks even if the sensors does not have the problems.
I agree with the message towards the end of the video but as others have mentioned, LOD can make a difference where one wants to hold an angle with perfect crosshair placement whist readjusting one's mouse eg 'tactical shooters' like CS.
I think it’s more of a mental factor, people freak out too much about accuracy which causes them to overthink their shots. Me personally, I perform better at higher rank games, where I have to manage more things and it’s more enjoyable for me too... I don’t have to overthink things as I’m already focused on everything going on with the motivation of the rank behind it.
lol
No lmao if your mechanically skilled certain things feel off recently my mouse pad was a little off to the right which led to the little bookshelf on the right being close to my mouse this causing me to without realizing not fully moving my hand to the right which affected my aim subtly but I still felt it
Bruv Why Im not saying things won’t affect you, but you can get used to it. I’m saying most people mentally overthink and this causes mistakes. It’s no different than getting new mouse feet, you’ll get used to it with practice, but controlling the mental factor and learning to trust yourself and not overthink anything is a problem a lot of people have.
the most obvious case of Lift Off Distance I noticed is with my Lenovo M600 wireless. I was simply lifting up the mouse slightly to a point where my aim was moving in the screen. Even for office tasks this mouse was a mess. However, with the Viper Mini, the software can make the LOD a little better, which makes it a great mouse in the end. Probably the best cost-effective mouse.
I just want to say, Thank you! I've always been using mice that are far too big for me. I recently switched from a Mamba Wireless to a Glorious Model O- and aiming is so much easier. The smaller and twice as light mouse really does make a difference. I didn't choose the Viper Mini, because I've grown to hate Razer's software, even if their hardware is good.
Again, thank you!
This actually helped my mouse gives me the option to increase the lift off distance so far feels great
i think the main problem with high lod only applies for bigger asymmetrical mice. I used to mess around a lot with mice when 3090 and 3310 sensors were the most common opticals and it only really bothered me on bigger asymmetrical mice as you get more unnatural mouse movement when you put he mouse on the pad after ligting off. As you are using smaller symmetrical mice you may not notice and some people might have a slightly "tilted" grip on mice like a viper mini so they might notice more of that unnatural feel when putting the mouse back on the mat after lifting.
At least for me Yes. I play FPS games with about 40cm / 360. When I lift up the the high LOD mouse, cross hair goes back to opposite direction little bit.
I can feel the interrupt while playing.
However , one thing for sure is developers underestimate the small mice.Rival 100 series, rival 3 , razer viper mini etc should have the latest sensor.
It's true that most people seem to find bs excuses to justify their lack of skills and that is fairly annoying. The mouses these days are nowhere near the older technology from 10-15 years ago, we've reach a ceiling where they are almost all just as good sensor-wise and that ur only difference is gonna be weight & shape.
while i get your points and self proof, this indefinitely doesn’t apply to everyone (including me) and that’s a bit like ignoring a small but possibly crucial issue for some - it’s of course preference, but realistically, you‘ll more consistently readjust the mouse if you know you don’t have to lift it as high. as a low sens palm/fingertipper, i don’t like having to feel like i put more effort in holding a mouse in the air and slamming it more just for more room:/
If I lift the mouse 1 DVD and you lift your mouse 3 DVD's then, of course, you aren't going to notice the lift off distance of a mouse. Saying "it's just an excuse" I don't think is right. I've used low lift of distance mice for ages and have gotten use to only lifting it slightly above 1 DVD. So when moving to anything higher, I'm not use to it at all to the point I have to change my style.
I'm surprised that most people are used to low LOD. I finalmouse air58 with a high LOD for a long time. It has recently stopped working so I switched to the GPW, which has super low LOD and does not have a software setting to change it. I play at low sensitivity so have to lift the mouse when doing 180's and stuff, and the GPW always does the flick with a smaller angle than what I expected. So it's only a matter of being so used to one mouse and having all the muscle memory built around it; it's all personal preference