The Finnish woman who battled Vikings
VloĆŸit
- Äas pĆidĂĄn 29. 08. 2021
- #Finland #vikings #history
In this weeks video I talk about a time when a Finnish woman defeated a viking! đ€đŒ
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agne
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F.A.Q.
How old are you?
29
Where are you from?
Dublin, Ireland
Where do you live?
Oulu, Finland
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Canon EOS 2000d, Samsung A52
Boya MM1 microphone
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Video Guru
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irishinfinland
History is a massive lie agreed upon...nothing more to say
You forgot *and also funded by the Rothschilds
Yes and researches has to collect piece by piece what actually happened.
So true!!!đ
Would you include the Bible?
@@kalevala29 A ton of Christianity's valuable teachings are being kept secret from us. So I'd say kinda, yeah.
You know, these Viking sagas about Finland seem to have a kind of a theme: don't fuck with Finns.
most finns were farmers,fishermen,mercenaries etc. but pretty neutral piece of land overall
@@AmorrSummerstorm Lol, except due to extensive conflicts between different tribes Finnish macroculture was pretty grim.
Yeah, I mean why would the Vikings write stories of defeat and loss unless there was real need to spread cautionary tales.
Aye, especially when Finland is in TOP 3 in amount of found viking era swords amongst Nordics (surprizingly Finland had more swords than Denmark)
Most Vikings were farmerâs and Fisherman aswell
Re-watching this video. Can't believe some folks got so butt hurt about a story of Finns defeating Vikings. Man, I'm a very serious Germanic Pagan and I love anything to do with Viking culture. But I also love anything to do with the Finnish and Baltic Vikings/Pagans. I thought the story was awesome.
Right!? You'll enjoy next week's video đ
There are Viking tombs in Finland. And really old remains of Viking ruins. This subject is for some reason really sensitive to Swedes / nors.
I've been researching this for an upcoming video, any sources/videos/articles you have I'd love to see âđ»đ€đŒ
Also thereâs a Estonian historian thatâs talk about the Baltic Vikings and how the (Scandinavian countries)took that for themselves as his own identity thing
I'm only an outsider with Finnish heritage... why would it be sensitive? I'm just curious. I suspect it's like native American burial grounds on this side of the world. Am I right?
@@harpazohope Tho people went viking all around the Baltic sea its still a very much skandinavian thing. There is also a very much love hate hostility between finns and swedes and you know how that shit is.
@Chicken Bucket something is wrong in Your head!
Finns actually did annihiliate Vikings, my uncle is a professor of history in university of JyvÀskylÀ, he told me about this when I asked about, and verified it.
What's his name? Would love to read his work
@@IrishinFinland his name is Vesa Ampuja, I didn't find any material in english, but I can always askđđđŒ If he has, he would be more than happy to provide! I think now his current job is more to provide information for finnish professors working in schools.
Beware though, there is no dearth of all kinds of history teachers and professors in Finland that like to say stuff based on very vague evidence.
@@DirtyMardi thats like professors around the globe. Nothing out of the ordinary there
@@DirtyMardi cope
FYI for the longest time it was believed/taught that during the Viking era Finns were basically living in holes in the ground with sharp sticks. Many think this was so to this day.
Modern archaeology however paints a different picture of fairly organized well armed population and there are findings of old battle sites where Vikings got BTFO'd by the locals.
So a Saga telling about Finns kicking some Viking ass aren't far fetched at all.
This is still a problem in Finland. As anything that does not have written documents is considered pre-history and it was the Swedish who came with the written language - or these half mythological viking stories written down at some time - all that has happened before the Swedish came to rule Finland, be it stone age, corded ware culture or just before the Swedish came, it is all lumped into pre-history.
So we don't learn to understand what has been here before the year 1000. One of the most striking example is if you start talking to a Finn about the system of linnavuori (hills with fortresses etc.): Really many people are surprised to learn about the system and the though that there must have been a society if there was such a system. And then they say: "We didn't learn that at school." đ
Yes also considering the Archeological facts that tell us Finns were as technologically advanced as most of Iron age europe...
Can you point me to a single source or schoolbook from any era where it is said that Finns lived in holes with sharp sticks? I was really interested in this era as a kid and did a lot of reading back then. My old school history books from elementary and upper secondary were very good at telling Finnish history. I also read much older books that had much wilder and unsubstantiated stories about Finnish vikings. My grandfather's schoolbook I found in our summer place was written in a Nationalistic era when people pretty much wrote the history as they wanted it to be.
This idea that Finnish history has somehow been "hidden" basically comes, from what I can gather, from people who have a specific chip on their shoulder. "We whuz kingz n shieet" tier shit.
@JoleFin Give it Up!U are Still not civilized.Behaving bad to Swedes i general and even to Your own People .THE Swedish speaking minorty WHO saved THE finnish tounge.Finland was a part of Sweden. We were all Swedes.Some Spoke finnish some Scanian,german,Latvian .Stopp lying about history.Finland is a new construcktion Formed by Swedish speaking men.So late as 1941 There was negotians ifore a union under THE Swedish king .But Finland choosed nazi- germany.Please try to behave....
@JoleFin Detta faktum bevisar du ju sjÀlv.Show due respekt to all Swedes!
As the son of a mother who is a full blooded Finn (the other half of my genetic heritage is Gaelic and Viking) I am not sure why my family name is English -- Sheriff. But I love learning about my Finnish heritage and I can't get enough of this channel. Many thanks!
My father was Finnish, with some Saami, my mom Scots-Irish and Norse. I love learning about the Finns, Saami, Norse/Vikings, Scots and Irish also.
Fair. My family name is swedish(not my CZcams name, that's dunmeri lol). But my kin migrated to the soggy mitten of Michigan from Finland, though to this day most of the folk bearing my name live on the swedish side of the border. Were a very small enclave amongst a lot of other Finn's here in Michigan. Mostly just south of the lapps. A lot of towns up north here in Michigan have Finnish names and street signs. The language isn't quite so common anymore. But it's becoming easier to learn so maybe the younger generations will carry the torch. I'm trying to learn but I'm not so young anymore, and neither is my mind... But I'll do my part as best I can.
People are very sensitive, and that goes both for "ancient Finn-supporters" and "Viking-enthusiasts". I have a problem with both, as these folks have quite a distorted view of the past. They always view things with 21th century glasses on, without realizing it themselves. To talk about "Vikings" and "Finns" as two opposite groups is wrong to begin with. Allegiances were probably a lot more fragmented than that, and contact was frequent across the Baltic sea, which in those days was the fast route. To move through the mainland was slow and cumbersome. Also, people tend to get stuck on these small stories from Sagas, and completely forget that a story like that, even if true, is a minimal, and very local part of the history in this large region. We're talking about hundreds of years of history here, and there is a lot of archeological evidence of pan-nordic contact way before the Viking age.
Amen!
You my man are a loony along with this 'irish' dandy
@@gezelgunther I'm not a romantic. Contemporary endeavors to glorify the past are fun 'n all, but nothing for the history books.
This
But you still need to consider that the Scandinavian Vikings spoke a language very different from Finnish - actually those languages are as far apart as two languages can possibly be. Another fact is that the Vikings were mainly Christians from around year 1000 when the Finns were still 100 % pagans another 500 years, living mostly like hunter-gatherers they had been since the last ice-age. Even if there was certainly contacts and trade happening between the Vikings and the Finns, both folks also kept their own respective languages and cultures intact.
Iâm so happy I found you đ even as a Finnish person, itâs so hard to find information about my heritage.
That's the crusades for you đ
The names Frosti and Skjalf are Scandinavian. So likely names they gave to these Finns - if indeed these persons existed.
Their Finnish names were maybe too difiicult for the Vikings to say. I they even aslked them.
Yeah, probably similar phenomenon as us Finns calling some George Yrjö.
@@koala1234ish Nit really. In the case of those names, there's a chain of changes that took place from lnguage to language over Europe.
George comes from the Greek Georgios, Latin Georgius. French has it as Georges. Looks so similar, but is said like 'Zhorzh(e)'. Like it would be written Jorj, just like Spanish jas Jorge, but there the J is said different again. BUT - those sounds changed from a J said like the Y in Yes, as late Latin writing, letters. Earlier Latin would use I here also - for this sound, so like Io(h)annes, later Jo(h)annes - John.
Where the Finnish form is changed, is Jörgen, JĂŒrgen in German. We can see how close the spellin is to the Spanish Jorge. Swedish loaned the German name as Ărjan. (They have also Georg, Jorg more straight from the original.) This Ărjan was borrowed as YrjĂ€nĂ€ to Finnish. Then YrjĂ€nĂ€ shortened to Yrjö. Ta-dah! :)
That leap isn't too great from Ărjan to YrjĂ€nĂ€. But when I realized Orjan came from JĂŒrgen or Jörgen, then it all clicked. I'm a bit pass 50, and it's about 5-10 years only, when I noticed that. :) No wonder that usually we don't see how Yrjö comes from Georgios!
The Scandinavian names for Finns instead, were chosen by Scandinavians not depending on the Finns' own name.
"How dare the viking sagas, written by vikings, talk about vikings like that!" ...what?
Right!? đ€Ł How dare they indeed
And why it would be unbelievable either. Viking raiders didnt operate on 100% success rate
Vikings didn't write the sagas? most of the sagas were written hundreds of years after the Viking age. Also mostly written by christians.
@@Vaetki Yeah. I guess the more accurate way of saying it would be "descendants of vikings wrote them" They were largely i suppose also just more of folklore at that point even the sagas not dealing with fantastical elements
When Viking sagas include this kind of a story in their chronicles, without victory horns sounding - well, it gives a warning, don't piss off Finnish woman...
Sisukas Suomalainen nainen! đȘđ»đȘđ»đȘđ»
Well, there are quite a few finnish women from this time buried with their arms and armour...so obviously.
Nice :) Also, according the studies, Vikings co-operated with Finns what comes to the trade and reaching East, nowadays Russia. - In sagas Finns are also known as sorcerers, mainly controlling the weather.
Wow!!! Where I can find more info o this???
Thanks!
@@mariaruiz348 I do not know if you know Finnish... my sources are mostly in Finnish but if you google "wheather modification" you can find at least something in Wikipedia (which is not the most trusted source :)
@@osk9013 fascinating Thanks!!!!
@@mariaruiz348 You are welcome :) I am interested in Finnish ancient religion and tribes, and more you find out it is clear that Finland was not some kind of periferia in the far past. E.g. The tribe of Karelians was seen as equal trade partner still 1100 by Novgorod (Novgorod Chronicles).
@@osk9013 thanks, yes I also think they were more than just small perifereria tribe, I have this feeling they were also very strong and cleaver and powerful with very ancient knowledge, proof is that they remained very pure genetically speaking, keeping the nature around them and lots of their traditions even when they were under Swedish and Russians governance. I am going to take a look to the chronicles you mention. đđđ
Frosty, might come from Pakkanen, finnish surname even today. Today there in Finland is about 1700 Pakkanen named people.
Ohhh okay I can see why! Very interesting
Although they most likely didnt have surnames i guess pagan era names typically were just finnish words, and pakkanen could be name maybe. Something like Kuura could be also name, and it translates to frost. Kuura is also name in modern finland too
People got mad? Dude, I'm heavily into Viking culture but I'm also interested in and respect many warrior cultures including the Finns. Kind of crazy, you never hear people say anything about the Viking defeats by other warriors like oh say, the Irish, for example?
Oh hey buddy, I was using the handle Ulfhedinn, been following you for a long time my friend, love your videos.
Well this was a 200 ship/boat fleet and all 3 of its leaders were slaughtered with most of the men...It is kinda biggie.
@@kimuvat2461 That still doesn't excuse people getting butt hurt over it. Kind of ridiculous. Also, those numbers aren't unusual during major conflicts. A lot, but certainly not rare.
There never was or has been any kind of culture frome finns,
@@kimuvat2461 sounds rubbish, 300 ships with warriors armed to the teeth ? I assume its longboats that could carry up to 40 - 80 men, lets say 40.
That would make the army 12 000 men strong. With an army of that size back then, Finns wouldnt stand a chance.
Interestingly, Frosti is actually an old version of Finn surname Prusti, which is a not very rare last name in Finland with 161 living individuals having Prusti as a last name.
The people in todays Finland and north western Russia probably fought amongs themselves as much as Scandinavians fought amongs themselves. Making the tribes east of Scandinavia as skillful warriors as the Vikings were.
"An awful lot of weapons have been found in Viking tombs in Finland, more than the rest of Scandinavia on average at the time." Atleast there was weapons to train with ^^
@@shards14 This makes me to think - did we Finns buried vikings with they swords or did we took those to use? In Eurajoki has been found 30+ viking swords from graves.
Those rus people were originally swedes, so they were pretty much fighting swedes all the time from both side lol
Finnish women are something even finnish men are scared of. Just saying...
And grannies are truely the definition of toughness.
But to more about stories, here are a couple honorary mentions..
The ancient greeks place "amazons" tag on their maps over mid Finland.
A maid with a log killed ten or so armed russian kossacs during the Greater Wrath (documented case)
Have any mentions on your mind? Add to the list =)
What was the name of this ancient map or where can one see it?
There is this old school in Turku called "RistimÀki / Crosshill" on to he banks of Aurajoki. As kids we weren't allowed to dig there at all. We were told that there's viking burial ground beneath.
Finns refered swedes as "rusti" or "rutsi" i think
I don't get the idea that when it comes to these old sagas, all the accounts of vikings are considered more or less historical... but when it comes to Finns, it's all a legend đ
yeah, because we totally believe in the saga with Fafnir and his gold... haha most of it was written far past the viking age by christians who fantasized most of their writings
i have never seen anyone claim the viking sagas to absolute truth, like this one about Skjalf is from Ynglingasaga which may or may not have happened but probably there could be some truth to it. No one knows today.
Actually, vikings were afraid of Finns because they were good with arrows and strong with spells. Archeolocical viking findigs are placed only on Finnish coast.
And Pirkkala... though that is quite resent knowledge. They had a showing in Vapriikki called Birckala 1017.
"How dare you say the Vikings were defeated by Finns?!"
Apparently some people think that the Vikings never lost a battle. Everyone wins and loses. And no matter who you are, you can beat or lose to anyone.
Also, Frosti and Skjalf are awfully Norse-sounding names for their supposedly being Finnish people.
Yeah, because shit gets translated and lost in translation. Frosti would obviously be pakkanen, which is still an existing surname. Skjalf is a name that no longer has an existing name equivalent in finnish language but it propably would have been something around the lines of tytinÀ or hytinÀ (to tremble). Because his fathers name was frosti i would go for hytinÀ because it refers to trembling specifically of cold. If we speculated even further we could make a guess that there maybe was somekind of word play going on. Protofinnic tyttöi(girl) tytinÀ -> hytinÀ.
Actually one of the things made Vikings fearsome was the fact they tend to do really quick raid and leave.But actually on a open regular battle or when they attack a position that was waiting for them they werenât thaaaaat great .
Finns didn't even have a written language until Swedish occupation and rule. A lot of Finns had Swedish names and surnames until the Finnicization in the early 1900s.
@@Vaetki a lot, that was actually a minority. We've had our own language and thus our own names and surnames for just as long as the swedes have had. Cope with it
@@flameofudun4238 cope with it? I am Swedish and Finnish? I wasnât saying anything negative, I was just telling history.
Winners write a history. You know what they want.
Awesome video as always! Really interesting too, I remember hearing something about this but I had completely forgotten this story đ
Thank you! Yeah I really have to dive into more of these sagas for sure!
@@IrishinFinland
Please do, these videos have been probably my favourite ones of the stuff you've made so far, I really like your other stuff too but being a bit of an history and mythology nerd these have been pretty much perfect for me as they rest in this wonderful gray area between history and mythology.
Many of the sagas are based on real people and events but after years of initially being passed in mostly through oral traditions and many different storytellers adding their own interpretations, embellishments and exaggerations (not to mention that some of them were basically that time period's version of propaganda) many of the stories are probably pretty different from how things actually went (and some of the foreign names and borrowed words have probably also changed somewhat to be easier to pronounce for the speakers of Old Norse, which may explain the pretty weird sounding Finnish name, although you have to also remember that like most languages Finnish probably sounded completely different back in those times, were we to go to England of the same time period most of us wouldn't understand a word of what the English people of that time were saying nor would they understand us any better)
I have read that here in Finland is very little signs of vikings raiding villages. There's reason for that and resent years alot of swords has been found from the ground and from these great many are "Ulfberhth". So who are we Finns? Here where I live is plenty of viking age and older graves, I have been wanting to forge a sword found near my village a patternwelded core made of four billets not counting cutting edge
And keep with these kinds of videos if you can bud, these are my favorites. But you know I like essentially everything you put out so do whatever you think will help your channel my friend.
I'm sticking with History and Mythology dude đ€đŒđ maybe the odd vlog here and there
@@IrishinFinland Awesome đđ
Hello Irish in Finland! My late father (fil tri Erkka Maula) happened to be very enthusiastic amateur researcher on this topic and even wrote a play on the theme. The play was based in actual archeological findings around his home region (Hauho, Alvettula, HĂ€meenlinna), and also a stone from the Viking time erected in Sweden for a hero slain in Finland.
His thesis was that Vikings did came to pillage and terrorize Finns, mainly for the valuable furs which they traded. But at least once the Vikings were thoroughly beaten and had to return with bad experiences. After this unsuccessful campaign some of the remaining Vikings rose the stone to honor the dead. He also believed that the stone carvings in Finland had been made to commemorate the campaign and the biggest battles during it. "Teponlinna" was the name of the play, but I'm not sure if he ever got it published.
By discouraging the Vikings from returning to Finland any time soon, this occasion would have postponed Christianity from arriving to Finland for hundreds of years, and resulted in the present day Finnish culture where the pre-Cristian habits, rituals and beliefs are still in not-so-distant collective memory.
But I have also read some research about Finnish people co-operating with Vikings on their way to Russia through the great rivers, being part of a trading network towards east. Unfortunately can't remember the source for this research.
If we assume the story has some truth in it (no matter how little), I can't help but think about the names. The names of the Finns don't sound very Finnish. So, either the author of the saga gave the Finns (let's say they were from Finland Proper) more Scandinavian names for the sake of the audience or they were even Scandinavian settlers in the area. In more ancient times "Finn" or "Fenni" is thought to refer to the Sami because the descriptions sound like nomadic people without fixed houses, but the contents of this saga don't really sound like it's telling about the Sami people.
It could also be the fact that the names were miss-spelled/miss-pronounced and as time passed on the name became more norse and indistinguishable from the original
Moral of Viking saga is women can be treacherous and deceptive and shouldnât be underestimated.
tolking about stories where Finns win the Vikings ... sometimes in the school history reading there was a Finnish "saga" about the Vikings. It was somehow that when the Vikings came at sea they were seen and the beacons were lit ... the Vikings did not care about the fire but started to rise along the river in their boats, when the elders of the tribe put the young boys to shoot in the boats with bows. That's how the boys got rehearsed ... and the elders dared to put the boys on the matter because they knew the Vikings wouldn't dare get out of the boats. And when the boats had emptied, they were set on fire and sent to the river to be taken away.
Another story that comes to mind is the story of a tribal chiefâs revenge expedition when his daughter was robbed as a slave. It somehow went like this; as the guarantors reached over the sea they noticed how the Viking boat set out to ascend the river. The chief landed and sent a small patrol to follow the boats ... a few days later, one of the patrol members returned with the chief's daughter, the girl was angry with her robbers and fled, and the Vikings had no company. A few more days went by and the patrol returned: higher up the river was a lake with a village built on stilts. The chief killed the men and burned the village.
About ten years after I got out of school, I watched a documentary about Birkaâs archaeological excavations. It was reportedly burned ... the whole village at once and signs of fighting were also found.
Just stories ... like the others, eg Antti Puunhaara, etc.
Finnish as written language was established during the 16th century so there are no written accounts from the Finnish point of view. I recall reading viking accounts about finns. They mentioned finns building hilltop fortification where they defended and could not be defeated by the vikings.
The story sounds somehow unreliable. "Great loot" from Finland. I wonder what that may have been. Or maybe the vikings could not write any account without exaggerating their loot? Who knows!
About the loot, i remember hearing tales and stories about loot in Finland in those days. It was mainly huge amount of hides, witch was used as a currency. Not too long ago, around -45 there still was currency, squirrel skin. Some places around Finland still uses trade system like how many hides you have to pay over some item. Also there is places were you can buy stuff with gold or other valuable minerals. Even a bar where you buy a beer with gold. Over 2million squirrels were skinned during one year. So hides, stuff that were made from those etc. always has been a huge thing in Finland and were also valuable around the world.
Some stories tells about riches of the earth and beautiful jewelry from Finland so my guess is there is also that.
Many stories around the world that tells about Fin mainly talks about magic and ability to control weather and nature, great warriors, riches (nothing like inca treasure for sure), battles that "woodland/Finland/ice demons" won etc. How many of them are true or correct or to be proven, who knows. For the record, there is also stories about fins selling 3 knots in a rope that made a breeze, heavy wind and storm.
Also there were powerful spirits in a human body, shamans from bear clan = karhuklaani, that could take a spirit of a bear within them self and create all sort of things with that skill. Call them to fight, bless warriors with bear spirit, beg for peace and mercy from a bear(name that you are not allowed to say out loud, you have to call it with nicknames like otso, nalle, mesikÀmmen etc that all means bear) that is one of our many gods. Also there is that other side that tell fins were just hobbits living in a hole on a ground, but that is just wrong. Evidence show that it is far from truth.
Some people could curse snakes and other animals. There is even a record from snake cursing when a skillful shaman make snakes go away from a farm(dont know if that worked or not :) ), unfortunately it is stained with christian colors since it was forced to Fins also.
Also it is said that there were many highly spiritual Fins, that could enter in Tuonela(valhala, hell, river styx ) without dying, that was the source of great knowledge and power. Some unworthy ones who tryed, never came back and died trying, so those who could do that were like head of any religion, really powerful people, but since we have thousands of gods, there were at least one shaman for every god. So my guess is that there were a lot of rituals, lots of equipment and artifacts. Those things also could have been something to loot in order to gain same powers if one believed those things.
Many intresting stories from Fin i can tell you that. But it is more than likely Fins had a lot of loot, depending who is coming and what was the reason for them.
Sounds like that viking account was talking about a linnavuori. There are over 100 of them in Finland, so I find it very interesting that foreign accounts tell about them. Do you remember what the name of that specific viking depiction was or where you could read it?
My mother Hilda Irene Maki named our dog a big white husky Shepard mix"Frosty"
Thank you for the video. Tell us a story of Gaelic football, hurling or your home town of Swords.
Finnish women are strong, I respect them.
you had to say that to avoid the divorce haha
Can be good to remember that "Finns" in early medival sources referres to not modern finnish people but Sami... there was no united tribes of Finland mentioned under a single name but rather many tribes mentioned each by their tribal name (tavasts, karrelians etc). The part of Finland that was originally called "Finland" was what is today called "Finland Proper" in the south west corner, closest to Ă land. An area that historically had a very close relationship with the Swedes. So if it in a vikingage saga mentioned "finland" then that is most likely what they mean.
You might have spoiled my next video! đ€Ł
I'm not so certain that the word "Finns' in medieval times would refer to the Sami people. Sami tribes were clearly separate from the Finnish tribes during the whole historic time, and according to the modern science they are supposed to have arrived to the area some thousands of years earlier than Finns. Their language is related but not understandable to Finns, contrary to the dialects you mention (Karelians, etc).
@@emiiliaolausson5559 most of finland was sami still in beginning of medival times. Finn originally meant sami.
Most finns arrived to finland from estonia maybe late as year 800.
Sami maybe even 2800 years earlier than that.
Finn likely comes from norse word meaning "finders" so basically hunter gatherers as sami in those times mostly lived as hunter gatherers finding food from nature, fishing and hunting wild reindeer. Herding started much later in 1400-1700s.
Finns became finns also because talking related language to sami and replacing the actual finns of finland the sami.
So finns really are not finns but tsuudi. Sami are the finns in the real meaning of the name.
In sami stories finns, karelians, veps, bjarm etc finnics are known as tsuudi or how ever its said.
I have a feeling the tsuudi may be the real name of finns from their original language even from before uralic speaking people assimilated to them in volga,,,
Probably finnic continued to speak uralic language of those uralic assimiliates as it was usefull for fur trade with sami, mansi maybe even samoyedics east.
So without the fur trade finns would probably just speak some baltic or eastern relative of baltic from volga.
Tsuudi being name maybe from that language meaning "the people",,,
but finns do not calls themself tsuudi now because it has negative cultural effect as it reveals what they did to sami. (Robbing stealing pillagin sami villages)
@@Viso333 keep it đŻ
Everyone stole from the Sami. Finland Norway Denmark.
I like your stories and the history that you expose. Thank you. As a suggestion, consider the points that make the Finns different from the rest of Europe: sisu, design, etc...
Great video and would like to see more of it. Finnish folklore is very fascinating and not well known outside of Finland. Unless you know the language english translations are not many.
not even well known inside finland. old wisdom is getting lost, the kids dont care much
@@zoolkhan
Written sources from Finland do not begin until the 12th and 11th centuries. At that time, the territory of Finland was connected by crusades as part of the Pope's power and the medieval network of Hanseatic merchants. The Catholic Church spread to the territory of Finland from Sweden and the Orthodox Church from the east to Novgorod, the territory of present-day Russia. The battle of Sweden and Novgorod for control of the region ended in 1323 with the peace of PÀhkinÀsaari. With the peace, the Catholic religion became established in Finland to the west and the Orthodox religion to the east. This boundary of religions still exists, but the Reformation changed the Catholic faith to the Lutheran faith. Literary information about Finnish antiquity began to be collected in the 19th century, when Christianity was already the main religion of almost everyone, by which time it had already wiped out many ancient traditions and beliefs. Despite this, many old beliefs and myths remained, especially in Orthodox Karelia. The stories of Jesus and VÀinÀmöinen, as well as the stories of Ukko the supreme god and the God of Christianity, lived side by side and sometimes also became mixed. Many records of ancient religion have survived as part of folk tales that were remarkably rich, especially in Karelia, as far back as the 19th century. The state banned the practice of ancient religion in the 17th century, but it was known or suspected that there were still sacred groves in Finland in the 18th century that churchmen and authorities sought to destroy. In the 18th century, foreigners were allowed to practice a religion other than Evangelical Lutheranism, but dissidents were forced to live without civil rights until the 20th century. The obligation to belong to a religion did not disappear until 1923, according to the Freedom of Religion Act. (Translated with Google) So there is a reason why it is lost
Also, the name Frosti, is found in a story about the God Yngvi-Freyr or, Freyr. Frosti Bowl, was an early follower of Freyr, along with others.
I don't know which region in Finland you live in, so this might not be of interest. But I would like to know more of the life and traditions of the savonian people, thus being the folks of the (old) Savo region (English: Savonia, Swedish: Savolax). I'm interested in the old and ancient savo history, before 1700 and way back. Their culture including clothing, equipment, weapons, artifacts, jewelry, talismans, hunting and gathering, farming, food, paganism/way of beliefs, rituals, symbols - in the 1600's and further back including ethnicity and migration, where they came from in the first place. Being a Norwegian Forest Finn I already know a lot of the history from the mid 1500's when the Savo started migrating to Sweden and Norway. The Forest Finns are known for their slash and burn rye production (so called "svedje" in Swedish and Norwegian), which they practiced back in Savo as well. In fact, this agricultural technique was already known to the people who inhabited the Savo region way further back in time. So, to sum it up: I'd like to know more of the old and ancient culture of the Savo people, *in* the Savo region, and their traditions that might have survived today.
Most likely options for the finnish names are old finnish words, Kuura (or as other finno-ugrics know it, Kura) which means Morning Frost.
For skjalf it would most likely be Saila Or Salla, with saila meaning Blade and Salla meaning (Womans) lap.
"SÀilÀ" means blade, Saila is likely just Aila or Laila with an S in the front. Otherwise you are making a good point.
@@puliturchannel7225 old Finnish Saila itself meant blade and sÀilÀ is specific type of sword not a blade
Iconic sisu story, right here.
Finnish women are wonderful, strong women. The younger cast they call millennials must be taken away from these things called social medias?
No, but really: more actual history and less bs.
maybe not Frosty but Kuura đ€ but that's just what I think and it may be wrong.... they spoke "old Norse" or similar language back then and Kuura is "modern" Finnish word....
Ah, yeah that makes sense!
It's no use to evaluate ancient names on the grounds they might mean or sound for the contemporary people. As now name frosti gives association to Jack the Frosty, it might have meant something like iceman or man as cool as ice to ancient people.
Also how you hear some name and try to write in in your own language does not go well. Like how would you spell Jukka, Ilkka, Jaana or Terhi kinda names if you just heard them? Basically same issue happened later when illiterate Finns moved to states, they could not write their name and they were given the name how it was spelled in the port.
Keeping in mind that most of what we call Finland today was a part of Sweden and the names of the characters in this saga are Swedish-like, I'm thinking this had little to do with real Finnish Finns. They were probably content in the forest watching it all take place.(If there is any truth to any of it)
Very true
Kaari Utrio has great books about the subject of Finnish women and their history.
And nobody except Votians and Izhorians will tell stories about the warrior women of Ingria who fought vikings
Finland belonged to Sweden in 1600's, when Sweden recruited our Finland's men to be their cavalry. That cavalry was truly a force to be reckoned with in the big war in that time in Europe, and made a big impact. Hakkapeliitat cavalry. Also, we in Finland, right after gaining our independence, fought a hard and bloody civil war, showing our warrior spirit to our own brothers and sisters. Then, Russia attacked us in WW2 20 years after, and they were drawn back with massive losses and gained only a bit of land and some stuff from us. Finland is no weak nation, we have this quiet warrior spirit who speaks little and lets the enemy land the first strike, so we know. Then the enemy better prepare. For they face us.
Coolđ«đź
Moral of the story is don't piss off a Finnish woman. Almost as bad as pissing off an red headed Irish woman. I ought to know, I married one (33 years and counting)
Hey! Our Norwegian grandfather married a Finn! (Grandma Rikka)
Riikka?
@@vinskilindqvist4554 For Erikka.......
Taking all of Finland would be tough, coastal raiding, sure, Oulujoki, that'll work, and some other rivers, but an offensive force through Finnish forests, probably not so easy. Skjalf sounds more Swedish, but they were mixing at that time and still are.
4:04 Frosti is a legit Finnish surname. An uncommon name, but still in use today.
I think the name Frosti, given it's context in language and time, isn't as silly or tongue in cheek as it might seem to our modern English speaking ears. To me anyways, anything ending with the "ee" sound immediately sounds diminutive or cutesy, or like a nickname, which isn't the case in Finnish or the Norse languages (if I'm not mistaken)
If you ignore that, I think it's it's rad name
Definitely gonna find out more about Frosti and a video will have to be made about him âđ»
@@IrishinFinland Hey, I do enjoy these legends. And there is always times in old day when people who go to war will either loose or win. That happen to Vikings too. Idk where that short of silly business even comes from for people to get so touchy about Vikings loosing - which happen here too. On one hand, why would they tell a story of a loss if some of the story was not true? Besides back then we had in Finland already castle hills and literal high ground warning fire systems to let people know if the vikings sailing towards the shores looked like they were on 'war path' or merchants. So maybe this man was as successful as said maybe not. I mean it was a bit obvious too as to which type a ship they used to know what they likely intended. I even thought that it would not have been out of question for the us Finns to try to scare them off with 'magic' too if they at time realized that the Vikings were maybe worried about that short of a stuff. And yea - well someone mess with my daddy - they mess with me for sure - lol. Perhaps he was very good a father to love. Besides - they did not call us by our own names did they. Finland is not the real name of the land - that is Suomi even today - the very word Finland is invention by others. So like some here have already said - surely those would have figured some way to twist or mumble a name more fitting on their Viking tongue than used the original Finnish name. And back then there were often chieftains that would be or wanted to be called kings - some of smaller areas than others - and well they would even have had something equivalent of high king - implying that there were areal lords as well. These old stories are fascinating and loads of fun. And it is really stupid that they are not more commonly told about in some history class. It is not like we have our own written sources now do we. So I have always found it curious as to what the other sources say when they manage to utter a word about us. And anyone familiar with histories in general would more so wait indeed that those who win will rather tell their stories a bit better for them selves. Unless it's to warn about the risks of trying to marry someone whose family you just killed.
I literally watched it 3 minutes ago lord of the rings: return of the king. Where this kings daughter kills Nazqul. Where she says i am no man. Like picture of this video
Christianity destroyed most of sagas. And is well known fact vikings and fins are enemies. Most of ancient population centers are pulled inlands because of vikings attac. This is history we are told at 1970:s. There are also "riimu"(rune)stones in which is told one great viking leader is killed in Finnland. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltic_area_runestones
Thank you for this info Karl! đđ»
Vikings had to make boats. They could not go anywhere from land. That tells it all.
I find what YOU find interesting interesting.
The problem with Finnish history is the fact it was written by the Swedes, an occupying nation originally. Still itÂŽs a Finnish-Swedish organization controlling all archeological studies so Swedish speaking minority has the power to decide whatÂŽs worth digging. ThereÂŽs stories about a Finnish kingdom and in Aura thereÂŽre mounds believed to be graves of Finnish kings...of course no one is permitted to dig these mounds.
This is complete nonsense, of course.
Lol what other conspiracies do you believe in?
@@seidr9147 dude it actually makes so much sense winners write history and swedes did everything they could to erase everything that was our own history nobody can deny it... May those Swedes suffer for 700 years
@@noobgun12 LOL. Its so funny
Where did you get this information from?
Here's another topic to get mad at ;)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillage_of_Sigtuna
It's a Wikipedia article so take it with a grain of salt, but it's interesting if that led to the founding of Stockholm.
Edit: The one Finnish king in a saga is called Faravid but that might be a translation of the Finnish name Kaukomieli - Far Minded... So they might have sometimes used translated names...
Lovely I'll save this!
Swedes and Norwegians have always tried to deny that Finland is good in something, they are often pretty cocky against Finnish people... They also tried to exterminate Finnish pagan religion and believes, for example the burned the most witchdrums, shamanic ritual gears etc. (to Finland... crusades came from sweden)... But they really couldn't destroy those and for that reason we have s pretty known spell book called Kalevala wich is a Finnish national epic (and yeah there really is spells in this book).
pagan beliefs was destroyed in Scandinavia too by christianity.
How about prechristian practices and beliefs? Thanks!
Don't you worry that's coming! âđ»
What did you mean they were mad because your last viking video. Sum and Jem And Sami people were laughing at vikings when they sail to east towards Ladoka and Volga.
well i went to iceland i think those people are truth vikings. They have a community the Asatru dont know much about sweden but its interesting. Did not know about Agne or Skaljaf
It kinda sounds like the story of Olga of Kiev, little less murderous
Vikings established Kiovanrus, which later becomes Russia. Finns have been war with russians some 42 times and lost 40 of them. And we are still here.
Well just look at them, no further explanation needed.
Most things people know about vikings, are written by Snorri Sturlusson. So should we rely on just one author?
He sounds like a nordic Dr.Seuss character
Sounds like the Finn women I've met.
which year does it hail from ?
This story is from Ynglingasaga and no one today knows when these stories took place or if at all. There could be some truth to them.
Yes interesting story.
But how all those times Vikings have not conquer what we now called Finland?
That is little weird. Even In Finland we have find some Vikings items here not many but some.
Are they from trade or just left on battlefield?
Why so called finns are not part of Vikings?
Why they are left alone?
Hey, the fact that they haven't found Jörmungandr the World Serpent yet, doesn't mean it doesn't exist!
I do have some info wich takes place in Finland and UK. There's a book about it. Please give me your info and i'll send it to you.
Awesome! aarongormanphotography91@gmail.com
No difference between somali pirates and swedish (siansaksaa speaking) vikings.
i dont know about frosti but i know there is a forsti finnish name.
finnish girls and women are the most beautiful. i just wish to have some luck to find one that cares...
What seems most far-fetched about this story, of Viking origin, is the names. Skjalf is not a Finnish name, by a long shot; it sounds Swedish, in which case i would be pronounced "shalf"; but l have never heard it. And Frosti is just as certainly not Finnish; Finnish has no "f"; and there can never be more than one consonant at the beginning of a word.
Yeah it's completely all over the place, was expecting her best friend to be a leprechaun while reading in all honesty
Those names make sense. Yes, they are scandinavian language. In finnish they were something different. Just like us finns call swedish people as ruotsalainen and russian people as venÀlÀinen. Ruotsi is an old loan word, and it means people that row. VenÀjÀ means almost the same, it means boat people. I guess venÀlÀiset meant scandinavians in east (Kievan rus) and ruotsit scandinavians in west. Karelians and ludians called proper finns as ruotsit, which is interesting.
Anyway, most probably Frosti dude was a chieftain which lived somewhere north and cold and had his scandinavian name because of that. Skjalf means "to shiver " which also indicates she lived somewhere cold.
@@TN-bp2cf lt is interesting to learn the origin of the Finnish words "ruotsalainen" and "venalainen," which l had never heard before.
@@davestrasburg408 Etymology is very interesting. It can give us traces when and how different cultures met and how they interacted with eachothers. Finnish language is like a freezer and tells a lot what has happened here in north.
@@TN-bp2cf Very true!
English language has lots of "Viking" words !
i mean... they probably didnt return to Stockholm, since it was founded in the 1200's
It's a saga, it may not even happened.....
@@IrishinFinland yea, but i highly doubt the saga in its original form said Stockholm. And if so, we know for certain that its not reliable. Though it could very well be Birka that it means though, also in MĂ€lardalen and was a grand viking trade city.
Just found it entertaining that vikings talk about a capital that wont be built in another 400 years or so ^^
@Heavy Metal Attack yea this is true. Still more likely they spoke about Birka though me thinks.
Edit:
Ăr dock rĂ€tt sĂ€ker pĂ„ att Stockholm grundades av en stenĂ„ldersfamilj dock...
Minns inte deras namn i nulÀget
Amongst the history and lineage vs heritage.
Is still this contemptible views towards The Finnish people.
And to this day it's contentious. WHY ?!
Awesome video, add more of these to your channel. In fact, the sagas are officially recognized as writings of Viking-era history, everywhere else in the Nordic countries except Finland.
This is due to the fact that this time has not really been studied in finland.
Of course sagas when colored by giants and other supernatural things, but that doesn't mean the event itself didn't happen.
In Finland, more research has been done into the Stone Age and the post-Iron Age period, the so-called Swedish rule
because of this there are no mentions of it in Finnish history books, and therefore ignorant people get angry when the issue is raised on youtube and not at a university lecture.
if you want to chat objectively about these sagas. I suggest that you chat with this Norwegian person on his youtube channel about it, ask him. the link below
czcams.com/video/_1HQc3kb8nY/video.html
Thank you very much for this comment! Don't worry I'll be adding loads more âđ»âđ»âđ»
@@IrishinFinland you're welcome đđand thank you for the great videos, and for bringing us these great stories from Finland.
It is kind of hard to study Finnish history from those times, there are no writings left / found and because of the soil nothing really preserves here that well. Also there are issues with funding, meaning that that there are more found sites to be studied than sites that are studied.
What we do know from Viking times is that there were lots of trade at least, also Finland has more found Viking sword findings than other Nordics, this has baffled people quite a bit since there hasn't been any real Viking influence in Finland. What it shows for sure is that people knew how to use swords and they valued the swords manufactured by Vikings and people had to be really rich to buy them in those volumes, they were expensive AF back then, which also supports the idea of Finnish area being some sort of trading hub between East and West.
Here is the same story. MANEGARM - En snara av guld czcams.com/video/_E0hu6Y6jG4/video.html
âThe Finnishâ did not exist at the time as such âŠthe west coast was populated by â sweds-
Someone's ghost may wish to equate not discussing what they know with a man who I believe is decades older than dead, at least, as "inhuman"; with the forgiveness laws of some other responsibility in the cold sense of how easily I beyond already knew that - he's a slab of oil (I saw once at night that he didn't exist while driving) - and if they did, it would not be hard to at some point use one more than perspicacious personal peaceful point of my people's continuing happy face age - to save it.
Are there sources that says anything about vikings in Denmark and Sweden? Vikings were a tribe like apache in North America. In Norway there were viking and birkebeiner tribes which were in war. The old norse litterature is written in west old norse language which were Norwegian. Norwegians settled Iceland where the old norse litterature is written. I am asking for a similar litterature for Sweden and Denmark. How do swedes and danes know there were swedish and danish vikings? "viking" is a name of a tribe in Norway.
correction: Norwegian tribe you are talking about is Viken. Viking means "To raid."
@@reigoj8228 Viken is literally the Oslofjord. Some argue that viking means "to raid" or "oversea raiding".
@@exentr Viken was one of the tribes forming the viking kingdom of Vestfold. The area where they resided was later on called viken too.
@@reigoj8228 Are you Norwegian? "vik" is femininum in Norwegian but masculinum in danish. Hence norwegian definit "vika" and danish definit "viken". The union with Denmark were from 1350. However "vik" is the same. It's just the bending from Norwegian to Danish that is different. "Viking" is masculinum tho. Viken isn't really Norwegian. It is Danish.
@@guzelataroach4450 Inlet maybe.
#hetoo
Might be neighbour who didnt like vikings running back home arse beaten :D
Vikings arrives in England.
Locals: "Awh shit"
Vikings arrives in Finland.
Locals: "Cowabunga it is..."
Literally đ€Łđ€Ł
Ancient finnish language is fascinating, in modern times mostly only speaken by land turtles :)=
Maby you could tell us irish culture more than focus wondering finnish culture and k3eping weird many things..remember joy and humor also.
Finns were the original vikings, that is mostly erased from history books....
For example, Norway got her name after a finnish king called Norri conquered that land....
It is just like that.....swedes erase that from finnish history few hundred years ago. The many sagas about finnish kings
@@tuiranpaja2286 Yepđ
some points:
a) neither "Frosti" nor "skjalf" are very finnish names.
b) "whole of finland" neither finland, nor sweden , nor stockholm did exist in viking times - todays political borders did not exist. isolated tribes existed. "big armies" were a joke by todays standards.
----
conclusion: this "saga" comes out of a stockholm pub, and was made up by swedish blokes after losing the icehockey WM once again.
Vikings pillaged and looted everywhere and settled , farmed and traded even more,
but all more serious records from more serious sholars suggest that they did not spend too much time robbing finns.
Probably there was not too much to rob anyways, finns were farmes and hunter gatherers - more to gain with the christians in the west, and south. Finns were just too similar, and could handle their axes just as well.
Yes, Vikings were beaten by Finns.. once. Not every time, not even close.
@Heavy Metal Attack he lived during those times ofc!!!
Firstly, the names don't sound Finnish, unless those were coastal Finns that spoke old version of Swedish. Secondly, did I miss some point or how did she have help all the sudden? Why were there men helping her?
Like all stories, this might have some resemblance of some old event and the story morphed and stayed alive as a lesson or warning not to try to steal crazy Finnish women.
Someone once said that Vikings were unlikely making raiding tours to Finland as the people were less poor and more willing to defend the little they have. It would be easier to rob monasteries and churches from the gold they have collected than come to Finland and risk your crew over few squirrel hides and a barrel of tar.
Snowflakes
Great name for the Finnish soldiers under King Frosti's rule, His snowflakes đ€Ł
there was no Finland before Sweden, there were just disunited chiefdoms.... they certainly didnt have king, idea of independent nation of finland was born after Russia occupied and annexed finns and grand duchy of Finland was formed.
Kvenland?
Ummm, hate to break it to you but the whole history of Britain for example has multiple kings at the same time ruling different areas, it was quite common all over the world. In some point these small kingdoms became one large. This is the case also with Sweden. So i don't really see your point here.
Also the idea of independent Finland became real during Swedish rule. First actual Finnish army responsible of protecting Finnish area was erected during Swedish rule and the man behind it was an officer who started to build independent Finland (can't remember his name, he was Swedish though).
Grand Dutchy of Finland had quite different reasons, mainly Russians felt that it is better to have friendly neighbor between Sweden and them than angry one, but the idea of independence existed even before that.
Now first institutions to support the growth of independent Finland were erected during Russian rule but it doesn't have the same meaning that you are implying here.
There were hÀmÀlÀiset, coastal finns and karelians and kvens who violently hated each others and everyone else with feral passion.
@@ReasonAboveEverything True. Village fights is a thing even today, when you travel bit out of big cities =) Some people find it repulsing but for example have found it to be something to preserve, it is part of our cultural heritage =)
I would not call them "just disunited" chiefdoms. Definition "independent nation" is just a technical term, more significant is the identity. E.g. Finnish heroic poetry was born about 700-1100, for example Carelian tribe started to form around 700-800 and was mentioned as their own group for the first time in Novgorod cronicles 1143... The tribes were not just fighting (against outsiders and each others) but also trading and co-operating.
In my opinion I think you should stay with the sagas, history, and more research. I would be disappointed to see more videos on childrenâs video games
That's the plan
After looking over the comments, I feel that I may be one of the very few folklorists who have enjoyed most of your previous videos.
Actually vikings didn't care about Finland at all. Finnish people weren't vikings and vikings may have visited Finland but there wasn't anything interestin for them.