Polaris Spaceplane Europe's Hope for Hypersonic and Space Transportation!
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- čas přidán 20. 06. 2024
- Horizontal take off and landing space planes are inherently safer than vertical launch and landing. Polaris Raumflugzeuge has been flying under the radar so to speak, building test articles and demonstrators, and moving Germany's dream of realizing Sanger's design closer to reality.
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Feels like all the small projects are rapidly gaining ground. A positive bubble for once.
Indeed. About time the smaller firms had a chance.
Perceptions of projected economies of scale are luring in the shoals of eager engineers and circling capital. When/if SpaceX heavy lift capacity reduces $/kilo to orbit by a couple orders of magnitude much becomes possible that was not before and if you build it they will come thinking becomes practical projections of actual profits. Or so the story goes, and only time will tell.
As far as I can see only two outstanding technical hurdles remain to be demonstrated before it's full steam ahead; heat shield stability at reentry velocities and the chopstick catch maneuver. I'll put off unreasonable optimism till then, but when they nail those items it will truly be the dawn of a new era. Let's hope Peter keeps his proverbial Principles in his no doubt neatly pressed pants until the pudding is realistically and practically proved. ... Ahem!
@@larrybuzbee7344 Starship is a excellent project. Simple getting to orbit cheaply is insufficient. Higher velocity plus effective handling/storage of cryogenic fuel & oxygen is needed. Higher safety standards than is possible on multi stage rockets is also needed for radioactive payloads or bulk personal transport. Starship isn't the endgame simply a start.
@@alt5494 First you start, then you finish, much later. And, no start, then never finish.
Hypersonic passenger jets are a bad idea, full stop. I don't think that all boosters are climate-change deniers, they're just suffering from some weird incapacity to connect the dots -- increasing the carbon cost of air travel to facilitate the super-rich getting about is a perfect example of what we should not be doing.
Another good historical review and lesson, Professor. Glad to be back in class.
Welcome back and thanks for watching!
Being the former (now retired) CEO of a global corporation… the business side of me asks “what is ESA thinking?”
In retrospect… if the military has a need for tech… it will become. We as civilians may have no idea about what is really out there… but ESA does not seem to drink the forward thinking kool aid of the private sector.
Thank you for revisiting the Space Plane… it may be safe to say it’s time is now or on the brink of passing forever. The launch demand will tell
Indeed! You'll have to tell me more about the CEO thing. Scientists often lack those skills.
Great video...👍
Thank you!
My favorite. I salute you !
And you also my friend.
Great video content about the first concept of the European Spacecrafts. Only Germany is capable of bringing back to live this forgotten technology. Many thanks to highlight the history of it. Greetings from Europe BE.
Greetings my friend.
SABRE
(Still from Europe :-)
The coolest thing here is that you kept the iron cross.
Historically accurate!
I remember the ill fated Dyna-soar project when I was a boy. Since then, I have always believed in "fly it back". It's disappointing to be still relying on parachutes for the return trip. I'm looking forward to Dream Chaser's success. I've never heard of Polaris until this video! Flying it there AND back will truly seal the deal!
It would be awesome!
Good presentation. I learned a lot! The Germans seem to have always had a knack for engineering. Looking forward to seeing if Deutschland can become competitive in the orbital space launch economy. Hopefully, the R&D behind Polaris leads to an economically viable development with their MIRA project which would allow for the transport of cargo, and crewed passengers, into LEO at price levels that can compete with SpaceX.
Thanks for watching! They did indeed. And still would if they would apply themselves.
@@terranspaceacademy Instead of pretending that improvements in rocket technology are about to open up limitless opportunities in space, I'd like to see hard-nosed assessment of the risk of Kessler Syndrome. From the summary of "BRUTE FORCE MODELING OF THE KESSLER SYNDROME": "For the worst-case scenario (BAU), the number of these very close,100m conjunctions per day can reach 50 by the year 2100".
Two words solve that problem... Starship Scoop!
@@terranspaceacademy Two words don't constitute a solution to the problem of space debris; just as Musk has failed to do most of what he's promised so far, "Starship Scoop" (which I take to be some notional scheme to remove space debris) may never come to fruition.
Gerry Anderson made the best rail launch system. Ever see an old British tv show called Fireball XL5?
Gerry was the guy who invented the show. Damn, but I loved that show as a kid!
I'll look it up :-)
@@terranspaceacademy
There’s episodes of it, and Gerry’s greatest work (imho) Thunderbirds on CZcams. The visuals are astounding for the early Sixties.
Go Polaris!
Great people!
Let's go Germany. Make us new cool stuff
You know they can!
I remember seeing some of the first concept art work of the space shuttle, by the time Government committees got finished with it, you could barely recognise it as the Space Shuttle, the most shocking for me was when I found out that the side boosters where going to be two giant Roman candles.
That's very true and sad...
Thats true. For those who don't know: solid boosters can not be turned off, once ignited, and were therefor prohibited for manned flights. But congress again: developement of liquid boosters is too expensive. Who cares for security anyway.
🚀🏴☠️🎸
the polaris crew shuttle features in season 3 and 4 of for all mankind series
I can't wait to see it!
Thumbnail looks a lot like the Traveller Type S Scout/Courier.
I don't need any more information to approve.
Thank you!
If Polaris turns into a viable prototype in 10 years, i think we are good in time. If the market for space transport is big enough then, maybe in 20 yearsit becomes what SpaceX is today.
There is room for new innovations but the doors are closing fast...
Reminds me of Mass Effect's _Normany_ .
Normany or Normandy? I couldn't get in to video games. The controller confounded me.
@@terranspaceacademy Normandy
@@terranspaceacademy I think it's _Normandy_ . Sorry for the typo.
9:39 I always find it astonishing just how much better Saturn V was than Space Shuttle and many other rockets that came decades after it, NASA had this fantastic rocket and they just threw it away for the crude mockery of a spaceplane.
Indeed. Bureaucracy over Buck Rogers I guess...
Would it be possible to make turbo jet style rocket engine that has an air breathing mode, then switches to using gaseous oxygen to flow through the blades?
Reaction Engines developed just that thing!
@@terranspaceacademy That description does not fit SABRE, which switches from air-breathing to burning liquid hydrogen and oxygen.
Good point. Do you mean for cooling?
@@terranspaceacademy i was thinking turbojet burning jp8, having a variable intake that seals as it goes up to vacuum. While on the back of the intake are heated injection nozzles for LOX and LIN. Essentially replacing the atmosphere as you gain altitude to keep the turbine spinning.
An f15 has a greater than 1 thrust to weight ratio, so may be achievable.
The problem with Hypersonic Transportation is that you can't Practically Transport large Number of people. Look all Hypersonic Concept its limited to 10 Passenger of 1-2 are pilots.
200 passengers could fly on Starship. Probably a hundred on the Cochran full sized space plane.
It should be noted that Ariane 6 cost reductions are not as originally advertised. Speaking in June 2023 at the Paris Air Show, the European Space Agency's Toni Tolker-Nielsen said the Ariane 6 is projected to come in at a higher cost per launch than first predicted. The Ariane 6's cost per flight will be about 40 percent lower than that of the now-retired Ariane 5, short of the previous 50% goal. ArianeGroup is asking for a substantial increase to its subsidies, to 350 million euros a year to try to maintain competitiveness with SpaceX.
Of course. That's always the case... Where is the competitiveness with SpaceX if they don't innovate?
350 million... a year. NASA's regular operating budget is 2.1 billion... a month. SpaceX has already burned an estimated 9 billion on Starship so far. ESA seems woefully underfunded, despite having an entire geological region of countries funding it. 350 million is not even close to being competitive. That's not even enough money to put glass windows in a typical office building around here. Sheese.
Very true. The Europeans are not yet invested in space.
As cool as spaceplanes are, the orbital speed of about 25 mach simply makes wings and air breathing engines impractical for getting to orbit compared to something like Starship.
If we had a skyhook in orbit to give them final push into orbit it would be a different story but as things are the mass of wings and airbreathing engines just doesn't pay for itself with mass of fuel saved.
But safer for people :-)
What is this "Bomber-Abfang-Jaeger" made of plywood (!) and with a rocket engine? One pilot top stage deltawing flyer with a single cannon; designed to shoot the American bomber planes. The engineur died on first testflight in 1944/45.
Also missing: V2b (b = bastard ;•), is a winged V2 for extended range that absolved test flights in 1944/45. It was noted for piloted version as spy plane. The first official space plane?
The V2b was from Peenemuende, while the small deltawing came from somewhere in Bavaria.
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Very interesting. I'll see what I can find.
If we can get the materials alloy's thermally correct for the rotating detonation engine then nothing is impossible for solar system work. With the instruments and algorithms we have it should be possible to solve the materials thermal issues.
I think so too. Innovative alloys like GRX810 and GRCop42 are moving us rapidly forward.
@@terranspaceacademy Yes, I cant wait until AI figures out other thermal materials element spectrums for thermal algorithmic functions. Try plasma coating alloys onto a stronger annulus or 3d print.. Make your annulus the cooling core for thermal heat exchanger. You need to turn up the heat with 3d printer lasers by adding graphene into your fiber optic polymers.
What do you think of GRX810?
@@terranspaceacademy I really don't care what it consist of, I want increased thermal tolerances. Maybe combine a small Sabre cooler to bring down the temp of the engine housing for longer ISP duration?
while space planes do look cool. there are inherent performance limitations with design, the mass fraction to orbit will always be much lower than a staged rocket of comparable size. Additionally the manufacturing cost are much higher, wings and airframes are complex assemblies and have deal with crazy dynamic loads. Regular rockets are for the most part pressurized tubes, far cheaper to manufacture. The combined forces of higher cost and lower performance and likely only marginal safety improvements will limit spaceplane use until there is sizable human presence in orbit to justify the increased safety margin.
True... but when we are talking about people they are not a high mass cargo. :-)
great time for great people,but not for dumps like today
No pessimism on this channel! :-)
i hope so, thanks
Interesting Stage 0 (initial acceleration) isn't via a magnetic rail track.
Too bid to move that way :-)
@@terranspaceacademy....at this time.... USS Ford uses electro-magnetic catapult.
Much less mass. We did a lesson called "Rail to the Stars" about it. The main thing is that Starship cannot go horizontal in Earth gravity without destroying itself.@@richardknapp570
Ha, nice shot across the bow…er…nose of the CIA. Hey Doc, I’m very disappointed in the Ariane 6 and ESA’s lack of reusability but showing young fresh faced first principles thinkers is a real shot in the arm. I’m encouraged they are taking on the bear of SSTO horizontal launch and landing because Skylon doesn’t have it. Get Polaris up and running with the dual propulsion system, have it generate revenue then tackle the hybrid single propulsion engine. Skylon is just wasting VC money on pipedreams they themselves cannot and will not ever see through.
It has been very embarrassing for ESA. Skylon may not fly but the engines should.
I always enjoy your unique and informative videos. Would be awesome to see a video regarding the 150 meter varient of Starship that Elon proposed as well as how that would impact payload capacity.
That would be a great lesson.
@@terranspaceacademy Yes, why don't you switch from talking about real engineering to covering every daft idea which comes out of Elon's mouth? With two Starships exploding before reaching orbit, it's clearly time to move on to the 150 meter variant.
😁
:-)
none of the renders show a heat shield
They had assumed it wouldn't need one back in the thirties... Cochrane is using active cooling like Stoke Space.
cause the renders planes are just suborbital so it doesn’t need the heatshield
cause the renders planes are just suborbital so it doesn’t need the heatshield
cause the renders planes are just suborbital so it doesn’t need the heatshield
While I like the idea of space planes, their usefulness is restricted to earth orbiting vehicles. The moon has no useful atmosphere, mars would need a different design of space plane, and we only have runways on earth.
Propulsive landing will always be a required option, starship fills the gap that a space plane can not.
They are just for human transport to and from LEO.
OK, so the point to point earth travel that is proposed for starship is better handled by space planes, that I agree with.
While I do think there's an advantage to having humans in LEO for the purposes of assessing and controlling experiments, simple artificial gravity experiments have never been run, if you don't examine the important questions about safe space exploration then all you have is the immediate return you get from simple 0g experiments.
Yes I am biased.
But acceleration is acceleration. There will be gravity :-)
The modern era was mostly invented by 1946. Mankind peaked in 1969. Everything since is derivative
It sometimes seems that way but then you have to throw away your smartphone don't you?
That's what they want to us believe. The truth is that all of the bleeding edge aerospace innovation went dark back in the 1970's, and is actively-and illegally-being withheld from the public under a mountain of unconstitutional secrecy.
Dang the Deep Space Cabal! :-)
I bet if we where in the Fourth Reich right now Space Plane economy class tickets would be on par with contemporary airliner seat pricing.
For those remaining...
It's a sad story.
Indeed it is.
5:48 so since nothing came out of it it was all an investment scam?
That is what we call a non sequitur, one does not follow from the other. Trying to do something and failing is not fraud.
We don't need hypersonic transportation for the super-rich and neither does Europe! What we do need is safe and ultra-efficient subsonic air transportation for the masses, perforce very slightly slower than present-day passenger jets, like that Boeing isn't building. Air travel now has a very high carbon cost -- have you heard? We don't need to further increase it, albeit only for the relative few who could afford hypersonic travel.
We've got subsonic for the masses. Now we need hypersonic for the masses.
@@terranspaceacademy That goal will never be reached; we can slash the carbon emissions from subsonic flight and need to.
It can and will be reached. There is no reason to assume it can't be.
@@terranspaceacademy Sure there is -- energy considerations alone mean that more fuel will be required and the engines required aren't going to require lower tolerances or be easier to maintain than turbojets -- quite the opposite. The next generation supersonic aircraft now being designed are all smaller than Concorde and tickets are likely to be more expensive. Hypersonic passenger service, if it ever happens, is bound to cost much more than subsonic jet flights.
Hypersonic flight will get to be cheaper than subsonic. Just like no one takes a cruise ship across the Atlantic anymore.
RuZZia aready have the PLASMONIC SHIELDS that europe don'y have!
No... they don't. They just say they do. It's sad really. I was wondering how they couldn't even get a lander TO the Moon after all the Soviet accomplishments but then I remembered... Korolev was from Odessa... Ukraine. Glushko was also Ukranian. It's possible that Russia does not foster the creativity necessary for spaceflight anymore in their universities. This is a tragedy. Even though they were resource starved at one time they had some of the greatest theoretical physicists in the world. But, if you can't voice your thoughts you can't innovate.
Why is it that when you want to make a post on this or about space or of UFO's and you can't or they don't want you to because your opinion doesn't have a bearing on the subject at hand why because of you have an idea they want you to let them know then they say we already have that when in fact they don't or at least they didn't till you gave it to them , a lot of times they don't want or care about your opinion do to the fact if you make it and put it out they can shut you down and take it due to the fact that they say for national security reasons for it and if you pursue it you will be silenced and use that to whatever you think and with that I yield back
Who are "they" my friend? I've commented about UFOs since my Strategic Air Command days... Mostly to the tune of "we aren't sure what they are" but that is were the evidence has left us at this point. So far no silencing...
Cleary an failure cause of RE-ENTRY problems
Which one?