The face of JANE BOLEYN? | The Lady Parker | Hans Holbein the younger | Anne Boleyn’s sister-in-law
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- čas přidán 9. 06. 2022
- Is this the face of JANE BOLEYN, Viscountess Rochford, who was Anne Boleyn’s sister-in-law? Or is this image, which was drawn by Hans Holbein the younger and inscribed in the eighteenth century with the words ‘The Lady Parker’, actually one of the wives of Janes’ brother, Sir Henry Parker, and therefore either Grace Newport or Elizabeth Calthorpe (or Calthrop). In this Tudors documentary from History Calling we’ll look at the provenance of this Tudor portrait which has passed through the hands of King Henry VIII, King Edward VI, Henry FitzAlan, 12th Earl of Arundel, John, Lord Lumley, then perhaps Henry, Prince of Wales, followed by his brother King Charles I. It then went to Philip Herbert, 4th Earl of Pembroke, Thomas Howard, 14th Earl of Arundel, King Charles II & finally the rest of the Kings and Queens of England from Charles onwards. It is now part of the Royal Collection of art & is held at Windsor Castle. I’ll explain to you where the inscription comes from & how much we can trust its identification as Lady Parker (which was supposedly provided by John Cheke, a tutor to Edward VI). We’ll also examine the evidence for it being either Jane, Grace or Elizabeth. This evidence will include the known movements of Hans Holbein, specifically when he was living in England and was available to create this picture, how well those dates tally with Jane Parker Boleyn’s change of surname upon her marriage to George Boleyn (which likely occurred in 1525 or 1526, though some date it as early as 1524) & the title she would have used prior to her marriage and even the colour of the paper Holbein used to draw the picture on. We’ll also look at the very limited sources we have as to the appearance of Lady Rochford which come from an examination of her supposed bones in the Chapel of St Peter Ad Vincula in the Tower of London in the 1870s. Jane’s demise on the scaffold on 13 February 1542 alongside her mistress, Queen Katherine Howard, was yet another Tudor scandal in an era which produced many, especially for the women of the court and it would be fascinating to have a picture of her, but in their eagerness to know what Jane Boleyn looked like, have some modern commentators gone too far in declaring this picture to be the woman who, perhaps more than any other, deserves the title of the other Boleyn girl?
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Have I convinced you that this isn’t Jane Boleyn, or do you still hold out hope? Let me know in the comments below and check out my PATREON site for extra perks at www.patreon.com/historycalling Remember to SUBSCRIBE to my channel too.
Seeing as Lady Rochford wasn't beloved at all by the family into which she married, I'm curious to think who would've paid for Holbein to paint her? Having a portrait done was a mark of status (I think you mentioned this in the Katherine Howard video), and no one really thought much of Jane, except her biological family, and of course, she wasn't ever "Lady Parker". Hard to say for sure, of course, but I doubt the lady in question is actually Jane Boleyn as well. Thanks for the Friday "brain tickle", HC, and I always enjoy your well-researched videos.
You could argue that regardless of how well liked she was, she still had sufficient status as the King and Queen's sister-in-law and the Boleyns certainly could have afforded to have her painted, but there's no evidence that they did. Happy to provide the 'brain tickle' :-)
@@HistoryCalling was Jane unpopular with the Boleyns? Can we site evidence for this? Jane didn't provide evidence against her husband and Anne. That's a myth that's been disproved. Plus wasn't there affectionate and comforting letters written between her and her husband George. So why would she have been unliked?
I'm convinced that this Holbein drawing isn't of George Boleyn's wife. However I do remember reading an obscure reference that good old Henry VIII did have a dalliance with a Mistress Parker, who I believe may have gone to France with Mary, Henry's sister, when she married the king. Do we have any clues on that may be?
Thank you for this video. It was well researched and informative.
Interesting and a puzzle.
Not one I would like to guess.
You have convinced me that the Lady is not Jane. Thanks for explaining how the title Lady works.
You’ve absolutely convinced me that the portrait is *not* of Jane Boleyn! After your expert analysis, I tend to think the portrait is of Grace Newport. It’s a lovely portrait: very serene.
Yes, it is a lovely picture. It's a pity it doesn't appear to have ever been turned into a painting.
feels like wishful thinking that it would be Jane. I really can't imagine people of the period getting titles wrong like that- titles would have been so ingrained in them from birth- same way people now wouldn't get Miss and Mrs mixed up
Yes, I can't see a mess up like that happening either.
But people do get Miss, Ms and Mrs mixed up today.
@@ButtonsCasey on a formal portrait, by a court artist, recorded by a court functionary ?
LaLaLA LaLaLA Well yeah but like thats quickly corrected I doubt if there was a legit mistake made it wouldn’t have been fixed
Most people do not understand the correct use of Miss, so they do get Mrs and Miss mixed up.
To clarify - Miss is used for an unmarried woman and a married woman uses her own name, and not her husband’s name. For example Elizabeth Taylor was usually referred to a Miss Elizabeth Taylor, despite being married more times than Henry VIII.
I think the sitter is probably Jane’s sister in law, but is it so clear that women were always referred to by their husband’s names. I can’t find any reference to Jane Grey being publicly referred to as Jane Dudley after her marriage. I think she may have signed herself as such, but the public proclamation and Edward’s device simply refer to her as Lady Jane.
Really appreciate the scholarship that went into this, and I am glad that this sketch has been preserved down through the centuries. Even though it's almost certainly not Jane Boleyn, the fact that either Grace or Elizabeth Parker's (I lean towards it being Grace myself) likeness has been preserved so wonderfully is incredible. Just because Grace or Elizabeth didn't have all of Jane's publicity and notoriety they were still real human beings whose lives and stories mattered as much as Jane's, and it's sad that some people will probably write it off as unimportant because it's not a "Tudor celebrity".
I agree. It's still a beautiful picture and Grace or Elizabeth deserve to be remembered too.
After listening into your thorough account about this young woman’s portrait I agree with you. I hope their are accurate portraits of Anne Boleyn, Lady Rochford, Anne of Cleves and Catherine Howard locked up in some vault ready to be discovered. I really enjoyed reading Julia Fox’s novel the True Story of the Infamous Lady Rochford. She didn’t betray her husband and her sister in law Anne Boleyn. There were accounts of her visiting her husband in the tower.
Thank you for this. Have a great weekend.
Thanks Leticia. I hope so too!
This type of video is so fascinating. Most history books I've read just tell you the historian's final decision on what they present and not how they came to that conclusion. You have presented us with a nice mystery and let us take part in drawing conclusions.
Thank you. Yes, I think seeing the evidence for yourself is half the fun (maybe more than half!)
Your talk about potential misattribution of the portrait managed to send me back to my museum volunteering days. So many poorly labeled objects, and with them the fear that we were totally wrong about what they actually were!
I’ve only found your channel somewhat recently and I’ve been absolutely loving it. I was always torn between going into history vs biology. Ended up choosing biology but it’s nice to get a history fix while I do my labwork these days.
Yes, I wonder how many things there are in museums that have (with the best of intentions) been mislabelled. We might be happier not knowing! :-) Glad you enjoy the channel and its something a little different to offset your work in science.
@@HistoryCalling so
I agree it couldn’t have been Jane. Seems like we’re those others who couldn’t decide between the 2 wives and we’ll never know. That’s the most frustrating part about history, but also makes it so fascinating.
Another great idea for a video! Enjoyed it so much. Thank you.
Thanks Anna. I wish we could know too. I lean towards it being Grace, but I really don't know for sure.
Thank you, I'm always impressed with the amount of research you do
Thank you. That's so nice of you :-)
Weaving all this research together and crafting a clear and cohesive narrative is obviously a challenge, and that's what hooks me with all your videos, HC. I'd lean toward the portrait being Grace based on your presentation. Thanks again! We're off to the dog park; it's a warm day here in the SF Bay Area. Enjoy the weekend. Until next Friday, be well. 👏👏
Yes, some are more of a challenge than others (I'm working on one at the moment which I'm struggling with a bit), but I'm pretty much always happy with the final product. Have a good weekend too :-)
Well this morning I had the opportunity to visit St Andrews Church on the Blickling Estate.
This is a beautiful little church, well worth a visit, yes it was rebuilt in the 19th century but it retains a16th century feel thanks to the original font and cover , there are original brasses, a very impressive coffer, the north door is original, possibly some of the floor tiles , and I'm sure the little cemetery has some stories. It makes you wonder whose hands may have opened the north door and who walked on the tiled floor .
It’s kind of scary how easily portraits can be assigned to the wrong person! I agree that the most likely candidate is George’s wife Grace. It never clicked in my mind that Jane was buried next to Anne and George. If she was the one that accused them of incest it almost seems cruel to put their remains so close together!
Very interesting video, as always! Out of curiosity, are you still making videos on the women of the War of the Roses? No matter what the video is, I’ll be back next week!!
Like her husband and sister in law, she was executed as a traitor, and, because of her high rank, that mandated being buried in the Church of Saint Peter in Chains within the Tower.
I am going to do the rest of the women of the Wars of the Roses, promise. :-) I got a little bit waylaid because those videos take so long to do and I was trying (not always successfully) to do some shorter ones so that I could build up a bit of a lead on myself (meaning have the videos done a few weeks ahead of time so that I could take time off if I got sick or went on holiday). I have aa bio of Elizabeth Woodville on the way from Amazon though and already have one in the house on Margaret Beaufort. Watch this space!
It’s so frustrating so many fascinating historical figures don’t have the closest thing we can get to their face (their portrait). It’s extra frustrating for eras like the Tudor one because for people like Anne Boleyn and Katherine Howard its entirely likely they had portraits but they were destroyed by Henry. Granted Jane Boleyn likely didn’t have a portrait but its still frustrating that we might’ve had an image but its not an actual image of her. Out of curiosity do you plan to do videos for other portraits like the alleged George Boleyn portrait or maybe even the portrait that is debated to be Mary Tudor or Catherine of Aragon. Portrait identification is so complicated but your research is so thorough that I’m always super sold over what you’re saying.
I actually had a quick look at the George Boleyn one but I couldn't see where that story (and that's all it is) came from. As best I can tell, the idea that the drawing you speak of is him is just an internet fairy-tale and I didn't think there was enough info. to create a video on it. :-(
History Calling Oh thats unfortunate, I thought the alleged George Boleyn portrait had a story to it since if you look at that portrait and one of the alleged Anne Boleyn portraits you could guess the sitters are siblings. Though I suppose that is a flawed argument for the portrait since the Holbein sketches that might be of Anne are alleged. Thats a shame but inevitable with the time that has passed and how much less significant George Boleyn is to people like his sister who was queen or his wife who was lady in waiting to so many Tudor consorts
Thank you so much for this video. You convinced me and I appreciate the research that went into prepared this. I am truly enjoying all of your programs.
Another outstandingly researched video by you and another wonderful Friday night!!
Why thank you kindly Marilyn :-)
Fascinating video. Your arguments seem solid. Clearly, you truly enjoy this kind of research. Thanks so much!
Thanks Carl. Yes, the research part is probably my favourite. Writing it all up, doing the recording and finding all the images to go with it can become a bit tiresome sometimes though.
Thanks very good, well put together.
Thanks Nathan :-)
Facinating Tudor history as always. 👏
Thanks Karina. Yes, the Tudors never disappoint :-)
Thank you my dear for another fascinating look into history. I am also impressed by the artist.
Thanks James. Yes, no one could beat Holbein.
Thank you so much for your video! Your work is always excellent. I love how you refer to the primary sources.
Thank you. Yes, if there's only one thing I could teach people who watch my channel, it's to go to the primary sources. There are so many lousy YT channels out there that just regurgitate Wikipedia entries or the theories of one historian and end up spouting absolute tripe because the creators were too lazy to do proper research. Grr!
Your work is excellent. You convinced me its not Jane Boleyn and I appreciate the research you put into making this video. Thank you.
Thank you for another wonderful, scholarly debunking that should lay to rest any doubt as to who the Lady Parker drawn by Holbein is. A very enjoyable video to watch.
Oh, good video! I love all the research you did and that you presented all the evidence and then invite us to make our own decision. Well done, Well Done!
I have been without internet access for a while and have been catching up on your content today. I found this via a link in another video and was delighted because I'm to trace the origins of the 'evil Lady Rochford' trope for my own research at the moment. I must have missed it when it originally came up. You can always trust the quality of the research in your videos, as well as the sources you include for further research.
I have to say, your argument has certainly convinced me. I have always been uncertain about the identification but didn't know about the other 'Lady Parkers' I saw one historian, who I had previously held in high regard, introduce the portrait as 'possibly' Lady Rochford at the beginning of the programme but by the end they were making judgements about her personality, motivations and character based almost entirely on the picture. Otherwise, there was some good evidence in there debunking her portrayal as 'the hated wife seeking revenge' so it's a shame that they invalidated that a bit by focusing on the picture.
Whatever the real identity of the portrait, it's always a pleasure to see Holbein's beautiful drawings and to hear your engaging analysis. Thank you.
You have convinced me that the drawing does not depict Jane Boleyn, and the preponderance of evidence makes it likely to be of one of her Parker sisters-in-law. (By the way, did Henry Parker ever inherit his father's title of Baron Morley? I believe a barony is an inheritable title, but maybe the King had a grudge against the family because of Jane and took away the title?} I suppose I have always thought of Jane being rather unattractive, and her husband unintersted in her. She did not remarry, though she was not particularly old when she was widowed. Maybe the fact that she bore no children during her marriage was a factor. The "Lady Parker" in the picture is, I think, quite pretty with those large wide-spaced eyes and delicate features. Possibly it is her very attractiveness that makes so many people who are sympathetic to her wish that it was Jane.
I *think* the title went to the grandson, because Jane's brother died during their father's lifetime. Yes, Lady Parker, whoever she was, was indeed very pretty and I think you're correct that that's one reason people want it to be Jane Boleyn.
Thank you so much💚I love your Tudor Videos📼
You are very welcome :-)
I truly love all your videos!
Thanks Gemma :-)
Always look forward to your videos on a Friday 😍😍
Thanks Victoria :-)
So now to look into the Parker ladies...Thank you for your diligent work well done.
Thanks Alannah. Happy hunting :-)
You've convinced me! Thank you for another fascinating video. Whoever she was, it's a beautiful picture.
Agreed, Rachel. 💚
Thanks Rachel and yes, I think whichever Lady Parker she was (assuming the inscription is correct), she looks very nice too.
@@HistoryCalling Braw Lady. Stay free, H C. Rab. 🕊
I agree. Whoever this Lady is, is quite pretty.
Apart from your typically ironclad historical reasoning, I want to commend your gorgeous videos from the Tower of London!
Thank you so much. I spent 5 hours there in March filming and photographing everything I could think of and as tourist numbers hadn't recovered yet, it was unusually quiet too, which was great for me :-)
I'm convinced! Thank you for this because I always thought this was Jane according to what I've read and watched on her and her family. Thank you for this video! It was very eye opening!👏😁
You're welcome. Yes, TV shows and other CZcams channels keep presenting this as her and eventually I thought 'I've had enough, I'm gonna take this silly theory apart'!
Thank you very much. This was a very beautiful woman in my opinion. (Grace Newport, makes sense to me as you explained). She radiates gentleness and love. I find geneology so fascinating. I have always, from a young age (14 years old in 1967), found myself reading about Tudor history. I would spend my weekends in the public library reading about this time period, even the Lancastrian/York War of the Roses time period too. This was before the media got hold of this dynasty, of course. And to my surprise, I found (as of 2018) that I am related to Mary Boleyn and Henry Tudor. This is the wonder and the beauty of history. Blessings to you, dear heart.
Thanks Susannah (and that's a fascinating pedigree you've got!)
Man your evidence and reasoning always hits the bullseye 👍👏❤️
Thank you so much. I aim to please (and to hit that bullseye of course!)
Thanks for your thorough research.
Excellent research as always. The most probable identification here is Grace Newport, Lady Parker, first spouse of the Lord Parker, who was brother to Jane Boleyn (nee Parker) Lady Rochford.
Thanks Stephanie. Yes, I definitely think it has to be one of the sisters-in-law (always assuming the 'Lady Parker' tag is itself correct of course).
You've convinced me! Wonderfully evidence-based, as ever. Thank you for your efforts. 🙂
Thank you. Yes, I am uptight about my evidence, there's no denying that :-)
"Probably Grace," does it for me!
Thank you :-)
Cracking video! Is this the start of a Tudor period art history series? Could investigate the Hever portrait of Thomas Boleyn / James Butler by Holbein next?
Oh that's definitely Butler. :-)
Ooh, this was fascinating HC ! A forensic analysis if ever there was one and you've convinced me its Grace. How anyone could believe someone at or near the relevant period, and a courtier at that, could get titles wrong is a mystery - it was their daily bread! But oh, don't you wish painters had labelled their work properly, LOL. Thanks again for an absorbing video.
I know. Labels would have been so useful and yet they're so hard to come by sometimes :-(
Thanks! Fantastic research as always!
👍 💚
THANK YOU Stephen for the donation to the channel. I'm glad you liked the video. It was interesting to research where the myth that this is Jane Boleyn had come from.
Hi, how are you? I'm doing well. Awesome live history video I enjoyed it can't wait to see more soon. Next video Could you do Michel de Nostradamus. He was a man in the 16th century he could see the future. See you next video greetings from Canada 😀
That picture which may be of Jane happens to look exactly like what I imagine Katherine Howard to look like.
Great video, as always! Would you ever consider doing a video on Napoleon?
Thank you for another great video! I agree with your conclusions, and that this is very unlikely to be a portrait of Jane Boleyn. I would like to suggest a video topic. I recently read about the discovery of the “Glouster” ship, 300 years after its sinking, and how it was carrying the (then) future King James II of England, who obviously managed to escape. I would LOVE to hear your take on this and learn more about it from an historical perspective, if you feel so inclined! Be well and have a beautiful weekend. 💕
Thank you. Have a lovely weekend too :-)
A very interesting video, thank you . I wonder if any other drawings, paintings or descriptions exist of Lady Grace which could add weight to the identification .
I also wonder if there is a drawing or painting lurking on a wall or in drawer at Blickling Hall assuming some things survived from the Manor House where she was born .
If you can find one, you'll be on every Tudor documentary from now til you drop :-)
Methinks you're correct. That image always made me wonder . I knew just enough to be puzzled but but not enough to figure it out . You have solved the mystery to my satisfaction. I always thought it unusual that Holbein didn't identify his English drawings since he made so many . He was not in his native country and I don't know how well he handled English. But It just seems it would be good sense to identify his subjects as a good business move .. But just how literate he was is another matter. lol Even considering The Great Vowel Shift and other linguistic problems .. I revel in the Medieval spellings. Thanks.
Yes, I wish he'd identified them too, but then again I suppose he just knew who they were and didn't think his preparatory drawings (which is what these are meant to be) would ever be of such historical importance. Glad you enjoyed the video :-)
Excellent info, love your posts. Agree it can’t be Jane ❤️🇨🇦❤️
Whoever she was, if the portrait is anything to go by, she was very beautiful.
It always amazes me just how difficult it is to pin down who was who (and who did what, and why) in this time period. It's part of the reason why I'm fascinated with the period.
I know. If only artists had clearly labelled their work, preferably with first names too and dates. It makes for some fun detective work though :-)
I've always been curious about the term 'Lady-In-Waiting'...
What are they waiting for?
No, don't get up...I see myself out... 😉
They were there to wait on the woman, hand and foot if needs be :-)
@@HistoryCalling Yeah, I'm just being silly 😜
😂😂🤣
🤣🤣🤪
Please please please do Joan the Fair Maid of Kent, wife of the Black Prince. She was known as the woman with two husbands prior to that; a great scandal of the day, her marriage to Thomas Holland appears to have been a true love match, and once married to the Black Prince (again in scandalous circumstances) both were worried about the legitimacy of their son the ill-fated Edward II. She constantly carried around a box of her "documents" proving the lawfulness of her marriages and divorces. There is nothing reliable about her on CZcams!! It is a fascinating story and I'm sure your viewers would love it! Love your channel!
Thank you. I'll look into her at some point :-)
Lovely video as always! I never thought that this was Jane Boleyn, but maybe so. Who knows? ❤️
Thank you. As you haven't had time to watch the whole video yet, I'll not spoil the ending :-)
Thank you for showing this drawing. I think your logic on it possibly being Jane Parker is sound and you’re quite correct about the titles. It’s too bad it wasn’t her because it would’ve been nice to put a face to the name. C’est la vie.
Yes, I'd love us to have a picture of her too, but the evidence just isn't there sadly. Still, you never know. Perhaps there's a picture of her out there waiting to be discovered.
Another very interesting video, and thank you for all your hard work. She's a pretty lady whoever she is, and I'm pretty sure it isn't Jane Parker. If she is part of the Parker family, I think she's more than likely to be Grace Newport her brother's first wife.
Yes, I lean towards Grace too.
Yaaaayyy! So excited I am always so curious about Jane Boleyn.
Yes, she's one of those shadowy figures that we know frustratingly little about.
@@HistoryCalling I can't imagine people thought she would be as infamous as she is, even after all the scandalous times she lived through. I doubt even now we're going to get much new information. But I can wish.
Oh definitely. I think she paled in comparison to her sister-in-law and to Katherine Howard. No doubt she'd be flattered that she's still remembered now, though possibly not happy about some of the things said about her.
You have given a very clear and accurate explanation.
Thanks Dorothy. It was an interesting one to research.
Gotta love a good debunk..... :) ❤❤❤❤❤
Yeah, me too :-)
Thanks! And can you make more videos about mistaken portraiture?
THANK YOU SO MUCH AGAIN FOR DONATING TO THE CHANNEL. Two donations really is above and beyond. I have a couple of other videos like this (one on a supposed drawing of Anne Boleyn and another on a painting of Katherine Howard thought by some to be Anne of Cleves) if you want to check out my art history playlist. My video on the face of Katherine Howard, which I released quite some time ago now also discusses a portrait mistakenly thought to be her. Again, it's all in the art history playlist. There's also another one coming in a few weeks as well :-)
@@HistoryCalling thank you for the recommendations. 🤗 And you are very welcome!! You are worth it!!
i’m with you here, highly unlikely it could be Jane but nonetheless a super interesting and intriguing story. i always say this but your videos are always so good and thorough! i learn something (multiple things) new every time. i so appreciate your hard work! 🙌🏻
Thanks Nicholas (it is Nicholas isn't it? I vaguely remember you saying you share your name with Santa Claus, but I could be thinking of someone else. Apologies if I am).
@@HistoryCalling haha yes you got it!! that’s me!!🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻
@@HistoryCalling you’ll be able to recognize me when i join the patreon 🤣
Wow you did really outstanding research I this one. I had always thought of her as Jane Parker first. And I always thought that this drawing was of her. Why else would Holbein put that name up top? But now that I know all you just told me I think you are correct, Its not her. Its one of her sister in laws. I read that Jane and George lived quite extravagantly before the big fall, and I have an audiobook about her life. After surviving at court for so many years and outsurviving so many, I have a hard time believing she would put her life in the hands of a teenage girl like how they say she did.
Yes, her motives in the whole Katherine Howard debacle are frustratingly oblique. I can't understand what she was thinking either.
Well researched, well presented. Who is sitting at the laptop at approximately 12:25? Have you given us a quick glimpse?
Best regards.
Thank you. No, that's just stock footage I'm afraid.
The only chance this is Jane Boleyn is if John Cheke was wrong in his identification (or it was not well transcribed) and this woman really has nothing to do with a “Ladye Parker”. But that would be too big of a coincidence, wouldn’t it?
As usual, another very informative video 📹. I am convinced this picture 📸 is not Jane Boleyn. Especially after your explanation of the title Lady. The young woman is very attractive, whoever she is, though.
She is very pretty. My money's on Grace Parker.
I admire your powers of deduction HC, I agree it's not Jane, thank you as always. 😊👍
Thank you. I just can't see it being her either.
@@HistoryCalling always a plesure HC, have a good weekend. 😊👍
As much as I want her to be Jane, mostly because I want a name attributed to the face, the facts say otherwise… Lovely video!! And I don’t know if it is within your area of interest, but if you could make a video about Ælfthryth of devon, that would be really interesting! And thank you for the extensive research you put into these! Have a lovely weekend.
Thanks Ælfgifu. I'm afraid I've never heard of Ælfthryth of Devon though :-(
@@HistoryCalling Oh! She is a very interesting character, and the variety of sources claiming her innocence or guilt in her stepson’s death is something I believe you would like to analyse
Hello to history calling from Bea stieber
I wish it were Jane, because her story is so compelling I'd love to know what she looked like. But it seems absurd to hold out that hope, given all the evidence you've cited.
I'd like to have an image of her too and I think it's because people would so love to have a picture of her that we see this one popping up so often, but it just ain't her sadly and it frustrates me when I see this one presented as her in things like TV documentaries because people naturally assume that they're accurate :-(
Not Rochford. Great job as always.
Thanks Dory :-)
Sheila Burrell played her brilliantly in the 1970 miniseries “The Six Wives of Henry VIII.” Such a deliciously evil interpretation.
You've convinced me, but I'm more interested with when you shot the footage of the memorial for those executed at the spot where the block once stood. The last time I visited the Tower in March of 2004 I don't believe the memorial was there. There was only a replica of the block. Pretty grim. Do you know when the memorial was added? It's very moving.
I shot the footage at the start of March. I had a few days in London and took my GoPro round some of the big touristy/historical locations. I got lots of material from Westminster Abbey, St Paul's and Windsor Castle too. Memorial was erected in 2006.
@@HistoryCalling Thanks for the info! Can't wait to see some of the other footage that you shot on that trip. It's doubtful I'll ever make it back across the pond at my age.
I have seen this drawing pop up before but I always assumed it was a filler image because I had been told even earlier that there were no official portraits of Jane Parker/Boleyn. I wonder if it is just people using it because they don't want to leave a blank image in documentaries and other CZcams videos and instead use this image for its vague connection to Jane.
I think so too. People do the same with a random drawing they pretend is George Boleyn, even though there's zero evidence it's him. The misinformation out there is rampant.
As I enjoyed your video, I sit here having a lunch of cheese and bread (sourdough) well slathered with butter. However, I'm washing it down with Coca-Cola rather than ale.
Just remember to brush your teeth after (I speak as someone who has her fair share of fillings!)
Fascinating video, as always. I haven't quite finished it yet, but I have a question for you: Do you believe Jane accused her husband and sister-in-law of incest, or is there not enough evidence to pick on either side for you? I'd love to know what you think. Personally, I think that she did, but to a less extreme as she is painted, since I have read Phillippa Gregory and therefore, I am blinded by what she writes and she does have a bit of a gossipping side in Gregory's novels, The Other Boleyn Girl and The Boleyn Inheritance.
I haven't looked at the evidence for what Jane did or didn't say in enough detail to have a final opinion, but from what I remember it's not completely clear cut that George was referring to her when he asked if he was going to be condemned on the evidence of one woman. I think Dr Kat has a video on Jane which you'd like.
@@HistoryCalling Thank you for the suggestion, it is a very good video.
@@HistoryCalling I do believe that the "woman" referred to as giving "evidence" against George and Anne Boleyn is thought to be Elizabeth Somerset, Countess of Worcester.
Do not, I repeat, do NOT rely on Philippa Gregory for ANY accurate historical information in her wildly UNhistorical novels. Check out, as History Calling says, Dr. Kat and especially The Anne Boleyn Files presented by Claire Ridgway, author of many books on the Boleyn family and the Tudor court. These ladies (even though they don't have capital Ls} have fascinating and absolutely historically accurate knowledge, based on extensive research, on all aspects of the period. (As, of course, does our esteemed History Calling hostess.) Claire Ridgway even has a video especially (and thoroughly) debunking the content of The Other Boleyn Girl, which sounds like it might be of particular interest to you.
What we do know about Jane during Anne and George's lifetimes is that 1. She took part in a court pageant; 2. She was married to George. In eleven years of marriage, George and Jane had no recorded children; 3. She was a lady in waiting to Anne; 4. She was riding closer to Anne in Anne's coronation procession than was Lady Cary, Anne's own sister; 5. She was sent away from court for getting into a dispute with one of Anne's other ladies apparently because Henry was paying attentions to the lady and upsetting Anne. It is possible that the lady in question was Jane Seymore; 6. Anne told Jane about Henry's failure to perform in the bedroom and Jane told George. This indicates that Anne confided in Jane and that Jane confided in George. George read out a paper to this effect during his trial even though he was directed not to. I personally think that this is the warped "justification" in the minds of Henry and Cromwell for the charge of incest. 7. When George was arrested in May of 1536 and all his goods were forfeit to the crown, Jane had lots of colorful clothing. When Jane was arrested in Autumn of 1541 and her goods were forfeit to the crown, she had all black clothes suitable for a widow and she never remarried in a time when remarriage was common. 8. Jane sent word to George in the Tower and asked after his comfort. 9. After George and Anne's executions, Thomas Boleyn, Earl of Wiltshire, had veto power over granting Jane Boleyn moneys and incomes as part of her dower right as George's widow. Would he really have granted her an income of 100 pounds per year if she had really brought about the downfall of his beloved son and daughter? 10. The first accusation of malicious intent against Lady Rochford was made by George Wyatt, who was born in 1553, eleven years after Jane's death, so he could not have known her personally or witnessed her actions. He was certainly influenced by her actions in the downfall of Catherine Howard and he was biased in Henry VIII's favor. Later historians took up this line of thinking but there is no contemporary record of it.
I wonder if, assuming this is Jane, the portrait was labelled "Jane, Lady Rochford née Parker" and then all that survived of the original label in the inventory were the words "Lady" and "Parker"
I agree with you, I don't think it's Jane. I think it was either one of Henry Parker's wives (personally I lean towards Grace). Another great video as always.
Thanks Gracie. Yes, I think it's most likely (another) Grace as well. :-)
I think you are correct, it is not Jane . Very interesting episode! Thank you!🇨🇦
Glad you enjoyed it. :-)
I like this channel because I learn so much from it. I cannot help but think that the voice is computerised and not genuine. Any thoughts?
Oh wow! Er, ok. No, I'm not a computer, but I think I can take that as a compliment??? Maybe try listening to the Q&A video I did when I reached 100k subscribers. I didn't have a script for that, so it's much less polished. Also (and I think this applies to all the videos) you can definitely hear me breathing a lot of the time and I get the odd complaint asking me to use a different microphone. I don't think these problems would occur with a computer voice. Whether you believe I'm real or not though, thank you for watching :-)
@@HistoryCalling Still not convinced. AI has become more human than humans. There seems to be no body, nobody, no name behind the words. AI can be so backdoor that, often when we discuss specifics during an online video meeting we start getting pop-up adverts related to the topics discussed.
Its a lovely picture.
It is. I can understand why people would like it to be Jane, but the evidence just ain't there I'm afraid.
Only here cause I found out she’s my 17th great grandaunt today this is super interesting!
Actress Juno Temple portrayed her in the 2008 film I have on DVD The Other Boleyn Girl. I don't know she in the portrait slightly favors other consistent portraits of her yet it doesn't show anything sound and conclusive so it could be debated.
Thanks Julie :-)
@@HistoryCalling who's Julie?
Thanks!
THANK YOU for such a generous donation to the channel Don. It's much appreciated. I hope you enjoyed hearing about Lady Parker :-)
coming back with a equally great video every week but be difficult!
Haha, thank you. Yes, I obviously think all the topics are interesting, but it is harder to find topics that other people will actually watch.
@@HistoryCalling maybe try something about the Borgias I find them interesting I’m sure a lot of people do as well.
That was very interesting, I agree with you that it isn't Jane and is one of her sister in-law.
Thanks Vernon :-)
Can't get over the term you use for Jandles " Flip Flops" lol mind you I bet you find our term werid as well.
I’m curious; were either of Sir Henry’s wives at court? The reason is, I’m wondering if they would have come within Holbein’s orbit. Thanks for a very interesting video!
Sir Henry's father, Lord Morley, was a noted scholar, translator, and diplomat at Henry's court. He actually sat on the juries for his son-in-law George's trial, as well as Anne Boleyn's. So it does not seem unlikely that his son and daughters-in-law were at court at some relevant point.
I don't know about her face but her character was vicious. After she was sentenced to have her head cut off for her part in smuggling Thomas Culpepper into the bedchamber of Katherine Howard who was married to the King, she confessed to lying about he husband George Boleyn committing incest with his sister Anne. She lied because her husband (who hated her) after being forced into an unwanted marriage, had nothing to do with her. Jane Parker (Boleyn) always was a spying sneak and George knew it. Anne Boleyn was totally innocent of all the charges against her.
It has to be either Grace or Elizabeth. As you pointed out, any experienced nobleman would know which titles would be appropriate to attach to whom. Incidentally, I let mother watch your Jane Austin video. She LOVED IT! Her favorite movie is either one of two of the TV adaptations of Pride and Prejudice. I personally prefer Mansfield Park. My late father (god help us) had a copy of Pride and Prejudice and Zombies. Jane Austin must be rolling in her grave.
Glad your Mum enjoyed Pride and Prejudice. I wish more people had given it a go actually. The book is so popular, I was hoping a video on it would do better than it has. Oh well. I suppose it was an interesting little experiment with a different type of content for me.
Wasn't her maiden name Parker,?
Yes, but she was never Lady Parker and was no longer a Parker by the time the Holbein drawing was completed.
I'm quite convinced by your research. She is certainly pretty though.
It is worth noting that both Jane and Henry VIII were descended from Margaret Beauchamp of Bletso.
Henry was certainly descended from Margaret. But I can't find her in Jane's ancestors--only a Maud Beauchamp who died in 1406, Jane's 4th great grandmother. Margaret was Henry's great grandmother. Both of them were related through the Plantagenets of course.
However, it does seem that Margaret was the 2x great grandmother of Sir Henry Parker via his mother Alice St. John, making him a cousin of Henry's.
Would love to generally know if this is true or not as I’m an ancestor of lady Jane rochford(Parker) & the Parker family. Her father & mother Henry & Alice St. John are my maternal grt grandparents many times over. So this has always interested me as it’s been disputed 😊 could it potentially be my grandmother x 13 grace parker nee Newport she married George Parker also an ancestor I’ve always thought so rather then Jane. I have this portrait hanging in my home since doing my family tree but we’ve never been 100% whether it was Jane 🤷♀️ interesting watch thank you for the video x
Hi Claire. You're very welcome. I hope the video has helped somewhat with your genealogy journey.
@@HistoryCalling it has helped a lot. I’m more convinced it is my direct ancestor grace Newport on your findings & video, we can’t confirm obviously but very convincing. The dates & accounts add up a lot more then Jane. I’ve loved finding this video as I think you may have convinced me this is my grt grandmother many many times over of course but still non the less exciting that we may have an existing portrait of her by Hans Holbein. It’s been amazing finding out my family history. I didn’t think when I started I would find it so fascinating & find out some of the people I did in my tree like lady jane rochford etc thanks again xx
you have convinced me
Thanks Julie :-)
Sadly I must mirror the above comments about this being eagerness to put a face to a name. I don’t think, short of an amazing discovery somewhere, that we shall ever again know her face.
You mentioned Alice St John (Sinjin) and I’m curious now as to it she’s a relative of Oliver St John of Civil War ‘fame’?
Yes, unfortunately I don't think we'll ever know what she looked like either. :-(
I don't know about Oliver St John I'm afraid.
@@HistoryCalling I'd love to know her appearance and always hope they'll make some dig somewhere and find a treasure trove of paintings and documents, though I do fear thats me being an old romantic.
She was Oliver's 2x great aunt, the sister of his great grandfather Alexander St. John.
@@edithengel2284 thank you
I have always wondered why Anne Boleyn and Catherine Howard's birth years are undetermined when nearly every other notable woman in Tudor times has a definite one.
Hmm, I wouldn't say nearly every other woman has a definite one. I think we're so used to dealing with super famous women, who were royal and whose births were therefore well recorded, that we forget sometimes that most people weren't so well recorded. We don't know when Jane Seymour, or Catherine Parr were born either for instance. We just have approximations.
I don't think this really can be Jane - excellent research 👏!
Thanks Rick. Yes, once you start looking at the evidence it doesn't stack up at all. I'm surprised to still see the odd TV documentary claiming this might be Jane.
Hello Calling History. My Yorkie Dog says hi. I have three questions for today:
1. Did you ever hear about the tragedy of Ivan the 6th of Russia ?
2. Do you think Ivan the terrible and Henry VIII would be friends if they were in the same era ?
3. Did you know Franz Josef wanted to marry Princess Anne of Prussia but she was already engaged.
Say hi to the Yorkie for me. :-) Unfortunately I know almost nothing about Ivan the 6th, Ivan the Terrible or Franz Josef, so I'm not able to answer the questions. Sorry :-(
@@HistoryCalling Ivan the 6th was the Russian version of Edward V.
Our schnauzers say "hi" to your yorkie! Have a great weekend. 🙏🏼
History has done Jane Boleyn wrong. I don't think she was the one who accused Anne and George of incest but she gets blamed for it, and every single historian ignores what she said about Katherine and Culpeper to claim Katherine was innocent. I hope her soul is at peace.
I must be honest, I've never looked at those aspects of her life in enough detail to have a solid opinion one way or the other, but like you, I hope she's at peace too.
@@HistoryCalling A lot of people don't look at her saying that Katherine and Culpeper knew of each other carnally. I think she would have known what they were doing. And of course she is the unnamed woman that lied on Anne and George. It's really interesting when you do look into her life, the little we know of. I would recommend it. Isn't a whole lot so it doesn't take long. Lol
On my way
I agree that it is Grace.