The Jews of Elephantine
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- čas přidán 13. 08. 2016
- The rocky islands of the First Cataract of the Nile at Aswan hold a secret - the story of the forgotten Jewish garrison who guarded Egypt's frontier under the Persians. The documents they left tell a tale of racial and religious hatred and of political intrigue that extended as far as Jerusalem. The desire of the women to ensure that their husbands couldn't easily divorce them reveals the answers to problems of chronology. Historical detection has never been so fascinating!
Amazing video! I love the background…the boats sailing by were neat. Those rocks looked like elephants to me. What I appreciate the most is showing Elephantine not just discussing it-that did wonders to bring this episode to life. Thank you so much for this video.
Magnificent delivery!felt like I was in class with my favorite history teacher 45yrs ago! Daniel and his secretary Baruck are said to have written their books at elephantine.dont stop teacher!
This chap needs to read Karel van der Toom, Becoming Diaspora Jews: Behind the Story of Elephantine, Yale UP 2019.
Thanks. I'll see if I can get hold of it. There are new theories all the time as new evidence comes to light.
Great video thanks so much
@NWTV Your narration is very much enjoyable and a delight to listen to! I have been doing my own independent work on accurately tracking world history and chronology as they are recorded in the Holy Scriptures. I was pleased to find that the _Elephantine Papyri_ helps us to accurately date the dedication of the Second Temple.
Persian history has long been an enigma to me as The Word only recognizes four Persian kings who would follow Darius the Mede as we read in _Daniel 11:1-2_ and find confirmed by the mouth of Ezra in the _Ezra __6:13__-15._ As a matter of fact only three Persian kings are named in the books of Ezra and Nehemiah while the fourth, Darius III, is confirmed for us in history as being defeated by Alexander of Macedon, there names are as follows:
*1) Cyrus*
*2) Darius*
*3) Artaxerxes*
*4) Darius*
This list would imply that the reigns of the other Persian kings would have overlapped with the four main Persian kings listed above. And this should not be suprising as the reigns of the judges and kings of Israel overlapped with one another as we read clearly in the accounts which cover those time periods.
Further study led me to examine the Olympiads which were carefully set down by th Greeks and accurately kept by Phlegon in his _Olympiads_ and, as we read in the accounts of Jerome, Eusebius, Josephus, and Dionysius of Halicarnassus. I wanted to see if the Greek chronology would help back up these overlapping reign of Persian kings and, to my suprise I found this was so. According to Jerome who preserved the words of Phelgon the earthquake and darkness over the land which occured at the death of Christ occured in the *202nd Olympiad* and, this agrees with the account given in the _Gospel of Nicodemus (formerly Acts of Pilate)_ which states that the death of Christ occured in the *202nd Olympiad.* Seeing that *1 Olympiad = 4 Years* then *202 Olympiads x 4 Years = 808 Years.* So, taking *30 AD/5500 AM* as the year Christ died means the *1st Olympiad* occured in *-778 BC/4692 AM.* And this is important as Alexander is recorded to have come to power in the *111th Olympiad* and ruled for *12 Years* dying in the *114th Olympiad.* Romulus founded Rome in the *7th Olympiad* which is *28 Years* later in *-750 BC* so, from here we must consult the years as found in the _LXX_ as they give us the longer chronology:
*2,242 Years* (Adam to Flood)
*1,247 Years* (Flood to Abraham)
*430 Years* (Abraham to Moses)
*511 Years* (Moses to Saul)
*262 Years* (Saul to 1st Olympiad)
The sum of the years amounts to *4,692 Years* which occured in the *6th Month* of the *37th Year* of king Joash of Judah:
*40 Years* (Saul)
*2 Years* (Ishbosheth)
*40.5 Years* (David)
*40 Years* (Solomon)
*17 Years* (Rehoboam)
*41 Years* (Abijah)
*25 Years* (Asa)
*8 Years* (Jehoram)
*1 Year* (Ahaziah)
*7 Years* (Queen Ataliah)
*37.5 Years* (Joash)
The sum of these years is *262 Years.* The whole reign of the kings of Judah is *517 Years* who outlasted the house of Saul by *258 Years* and, the rest of the years from the *1st Olympiad* in the time of king Joash is *255 Years.* This means Saul's dynasty ruled for *259 Years.* As this relates to the Persians the Temple built by king Solomon was burned by king Nebuchadnezzar in *-523BC/4947 AM* and the Jews would be in Babylon for *70 Years* at which point Cyrus freed them in *-453 BC/5017 AM.* So from the *1st Olympiad* to the time Cyrus freed the Jews is *325 Years/81.25 Olympiads.* And from Cyrus to Alexander is *119 Years/29.75 Olympiads.*
Upon discovering this I was completely astounded and was forced to rethink everything I had traditionally learned about history! This would drastically alter when the Second Temple was built in the *6th Year* of Darius:
*1) 36 Years (Cyrus)*
*2) 36 Years (Darius)*
*3) 41 Years (Artaxerxes)*
*4) 6 Years (Darius)*
The sum of the Persian kings according to Scripture are *119 Years* whose numbers are supported by Jerome and Eusebius in their _Chronicles_ being listed as *113-115 Years* when you tally up the years of the same kings aformentioned. Therefore from Cyrus to the dedication of the Second Temple in the *6th Year of Darius* is *42 Years* which occured in the year *-411 BC/5059 AM.* This agrees perfectly with the dating of the Passover Letter in the _Elephantine Papyri!_ This means that the Second Temple stood for *481 Years* before being destroyed by Titus in *70 AD.* The first Temple was dedicated in *-953.5 BC/4516.5 AM* and destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar *430.5 Years* later in *-523 BC/4947 AM.*
Hi Jeremy, I see you here! I just watched this video yesterday. I see you working on your chronology. I still think the Roman Consular / Julian / Gregorian Year numbering is correct. We are on the cusp of the 70th Jubilee.
I'm sure you've done a lot of research on this, but the date 586 BC for the destruction of Solomon's temple by Nebuchadnezzar is supported by astronomical data in the Babylonian Chronicle (er, which doesn't mention that event, but does give us an exact date for the previous capture of Jerusalem 11 years previously).
@@nwtv6498Thanks for that info on the *astronomical data* in the Babylonian Chronicle regarding Babylons first campaign against Jerusalem. Have you yet watched my video on the 70th Jubilee and how I interpreted Daniel 9:24 to be 70 *Jubilees* (and *not* "weeks" of years)??
There are two videos, part one and part 2. It is a progression, please watch them both and provide me your opinion. Best Regards, Nick
@@nwtv6498 You know the interesting thing about astronomy is that no matter what date you come up with you will find some astronomical sign associated with it. That being the case the problem wouldn't be the stars not being in their proper order, but the history and chronology of the events which took place. Afterall I have not seen ancient historians consult the stars for the deeds of kings.
If anything depending on how the historical and chronological data are presented will alter how we perceive archaeology and astronomy, not the other way around.
@@nwtv6498 But to answer your comment plainly. I did find the dates of Albright *(-587 BC)* and Thiele *(-586 BC)* to be quite faulty when compared the actual internal data of Scripture:
_Masoretic Text (-4004 BC Date of Creation)_
Creation to Adam
*0 Years 6 Days/0 AM/-4004 BC*
Adam to Flood
*1,656 Years/1656 AM/-2348 BC*
Flood to Abraham
*367 Years/2023 AM/-1981 BC*
Abraham to Moses
*430 Years/2453 AM/-1551 BC*
Moses to Saul
*511 Years/2964 AM/-1040 BC*
Saul to Babylon
*517 Years/3481 AM/-523 BC*
Babylon to Cyrus
*70 Years/3551 AM/-453 BC*
Cyrus to Christ's Crucifixion
*483 Years/4034 AM/30 AD*
_Convert AD to BC_
*30 AD - 4,034 Years = -4004 BC*
We see that Scripture gives us a completely different account than what modern academia tell us. Upon examining the works of the aforementioned gentleman further I saw they gave two different dates for the *1st Year* of Rehoboam:
_Thiele_
*-930 BC* to *-586 BC* are *344 Years*
_Albright_
*-922 BC* to *-587 BC* are *335 Years*
When we look at Scripture however...
_Masoretic Text (-4004 BC Date of Creation)_
Creation to Adam
*0 Years 6 Days/0 AM/-4004 BC*
Adam to Flood
*1,656 Years/1656 AM/-2348 BC*
Flood to Abraham
*367 Years/2023 AM/-1981 BC*
Abraham to Moses
*430 Years/2453 AM/-1551 BC*
Moses to Saul
*511 Years/2964 AM/-1040 BC*
_Saul to Rehoboam (-1040 BC to -919.5 BC)_
*40 Years (Saul)*
*2 Years (Ishbosheth)*
*40.5 Years (David)*
*40 Years (Solomon)*
*122.5 Years*
*-917.5 BC* to *-587 BC* are *332.5 Years*
vs *335 & 344 Years*
*-917.5 BC* to *-586 BC* are *331.5 Years*
vs *335 & 344 Years*
From this is would be clear that our gentleman knew these dates from Scripture quite well. We also see that they added *63-64 Years* to the timeline without any justification. In the _Septuagint/LXX_ you get *4,947 Years* from its creation date of *-5470 BC* to *-523 BC.*
If we use the plain reading of _1 Kings 6:1_ the divergence of these gentleman become more pronounced:
*1656 Years (Adam to Flood)*
*367 Years (Flood to Abraham)*
*430 Years (Abraham to Moses)*
*47 Years (Moses to Caleb's 85th Year)*
*25 Years (Joshua's 110th Year)*
*1 Year (Caleb's 111th Year)*
*394 Years (Caleb to Saul)*
*86 Years (Saul to Solomon's 4th Year)*
*3,006 Years/3006 AM/-998 BC*
*-998 BC* to *-587 BC* are *411 Years*
*-998 BC* to *-586 BC* are *412 Years*
It's clear the dates of Albright and Thiele are based on nothing but their wild imaginations.
Most interesting.
Excellent
Papyri. He said it 20 times before I figured out that he meant papyri.
Excellent, informative, well spoken, engaging presentation. Keep them coming!
paaaaaapyri
Horrendous pronunciation from a horrendous host.
Awesome post
Glad you liked it. It's a fascinating story.
This history ties into the reconstruction history of the Jews at Elephantine relative to the lost Ark of the Covenant by Graham Hancock in his book "The Sign and the Seal", 1992.
I don't know whether it does or not, but Graham Hancock is not a serious historian.
This is an uncalled for statement in the video:
" unfortunately the Jews often have a knack for for upsetting people"
(9:19)
It is, nevertheless, true (though I think I only said "for" once). Claiming to be the exclusive people of God and regarding all non-Jews as inferior does tend to put people's backs up. See comments in the Talmud on "proselytes" if you doubt my statement.
Please notice that I am not attempting to justify the way Jews have been treated, just to explain what has happened in history.
@@nwtv6498 Not all Jews subscribe to everything in the Talmud. Further, the Talmud is much later than the the Jews at Elephantine. Later inquisitors and others got upset and sometimes violent that while Jews did follow the Old Testament (and it's "chosen" implications) but they would not accept the New and church authority.
The people who the world call jews are not the people of the bible. They are gentiles
NWTV I don't expect you to go back and edit (and reupload?!) the video, but I do think you should reconsider your logic and what you're implying. You said "the Jews have a knack"- which implies that something the Jews do leads to others disliking them, instead of the Jews being the victim of scapegoatism. Also, the case of the Jewish mercenaries on ancient Elephantine could have simply been a problem of local politics and allegiances, but instead you generalized the issue. In your response above, you offered Jewish self-notions of "superiority" as an example of how Jews have historically elicited the dislike of others towards them. I'm well familiar with the history of Jewish attitudes towards "outsiders" yet I see no evidence for this being the actual cause of the historical dislike of Jews. What case of animosity towards Jews in history can be attributed to the Jews' perceived self-superiority? I submit that there is practically none, and that this is just a modern libel against Jews.
Notwithstanding my comment above, I very much appreciate your very informative and well documented presentation. Thank you.
excellent
great to find such info even if v conventional [eg Manasseh accepted generally now as one of the better kings of Israel ]
So; not only were they polytheists but their ywh had a parhedros
who P Gremot argues was the same as the Ugarit parhedros of Baal [Anat]
Questions: still polytheism in Judah? [probably ...and with parhedros as various biblical texts suggest]
effects precisely of Josiah 's centralising reforms?
Deuteronomistic writers separated judahites off with their monotheism [a term of C17th century] whereas Priestly writers did not...why?
Finally 3 points.
you say Bible in aramaic...why not hebrew?
second, the jews were probably quite happy in Egypt...Manassah irrelevant [ as most diaspora jews were happy enough eg the ones in babylon under Persian rule ]
last, while there was a temple here there was probably no first temple a la OT/ Solomon in Jerusalem
Better in what way? As far as religion went, definitely worse. Perhaps better as a politician or something.
It depends on what you mean by "better". He may have been successful politically - though even that is dubious - while being a disaster from the religious point of view. c.f. Ahab, who was strong politically but hardly a paragon of moral and religious virtue.
@@nwtv6498 sorry if last reply now deleted tended to confuse
of course manasseh judah BUT my rationale still holds....even southern writers depicted compatriots...other southerners as idolaters as it suited [ notably in Kings]
Finally how can one be certain Deuteronomy itself existed at that time...all we have is the word of Kings
in fact Chronicles modified Kings to the detriment of Mannaseh
Your comment is eg of adverting to when concordance is possible but ignoring evidence when highly probable bible Errant / wrong/incorrect
@@gda295 Really? Perhaps you can give me the reference where the book of Kings mentions "Deuteronomy"?
Well, of course, you know the answer as well as I do. The point is that once we reject the sole historical source that we have for the period, we can invent any old nonsense we like. Do you have solid reasons for rejecting Kings? You can prove that Ahab was a myth, perhaps? Or that Asa only ruled for four years?
I am sure that the records we have are not exhaustive and do not tell the whole story, but to reject them outright without good reason is not how historians work.
@@nwtv6498 i smply make 3 points
1 the writer /s of kings had agendas only one of which was to convince monotheism was more prevalent than it was...this inc libel
2 the believer in the bible is unwise to raise history in its defence as an accurate record of the evets t depicts...he will sooner or later paint himself into a corner
3 i am not against as it were the bible
you approach it as a method of historiography
I , as a subject for historiography
There is a reason such believers are averse to higher criticism which inc source criticism of course.
Well it only proves that they didnt have the Torah, little omission on your part
That would be one interpretation. Another would be that they chose to ignore it. Another that they only had parts of it.
There are some lachrymose mfs in the comments
Elephantine Island. Where Joseph and Mary brought baby Jesus first in Egypt escaping King Herod.
It is hardly likely that Mary and Joseph would travel 400+ miles to the south of Egypt. Coptic tradition places their stay in the region of Memphis/Cairo.
Sanballat was not a Jew, nor was the Torah written by his time. You're proven wrong by archaeology.
No, Sanballat was a Samaritan. There are no torahs surviving from that time, so archaeology hasn't proved me wrong (nor right either!) but the fact that the Persians wrote reminding the Elephantine Jews of the need to observe the Passover argues that there was a "proto-torah" at the very least.
No, Sanballat was a Samaritan - did I say otherwise? Archaeology, I fear, doesn't tell us when the Torah was written. It can merely give us the earliest manuscripts.
Lies