Is Heavy Metal 'Perfect Music'? (w/ Martin Popoff)
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- čas přidán 25. 05. 2023
- Join Pete Pardo & Martin Popoff for a discussion of some different genres and why they are, or aren't, 'perfect music'.
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Pete and Martin are very close to perfection. :)
Peter and Martin, two great friends i never met! Rock on dudes 💪
Any music that I like is perfect music, and anyone who disagrees with me is wrong.
You're exactly right Mike.
U 😂are wrong
Tell us how you really feel...I unabashedly agree with you.
The problem is, a lot of people unabashedly agree with you. Not that your favorite music is perfect, but that ours is. Not that your favorite music couldn't be perfect, of course, if it perfectly maps onto ours!
As I am perfect, the music I like must therefore be perfect! 😁
I like heavy metal because it gives me power. My favorite album of all time is Deep Purple In Rock. No matter how bad the day is,it picks me right back up!!
metal fans are like no other.
In Rock is what I use to help me run through a brick wall.
Been working, and listening to all these types of music for the past 50 years. I was at a Grateful Dead concert. A band that can be hit or miss. One of the songs they played I thought to myself.(that’s music to my ears.) may maybe that one moment was perfect music.
Heavy Metal. It’s imperfections are what makes it 100% perfect.
Martin, your definition of Pop is just perfect. I like some pop music sometimes, but that's what it is: you don't need to think, everything is "right", it's all about the rainbow and the unicorns. It's candy, it's junkfood...
For me, the perfect music, is the right music that touches at the right time in my life. I like pretty much anything from Pop to Black Metal (and Classic & jazz,...) but not at any time.
Cheers.
Interesting topic. Martin, I love the way you wax on about your perception of American men looking under the hoods of their ‘77 Camaro lol. Not far off the mark but, a lot of us American guys that love Heavy Metal music have a deeper understanding of a lot of different topics and we’re pretty knowledgeable about things. We might hear an Iron Maiden song about a poem and want to actually pick up a book and read it. There are some artists in Metal that had/ have a great lyricist. Rush, Nevermore, Sanctuary, Megadeth, etc, that touch upon a wide array of topics. Religion, politics, spirituality, drug addiction.
These are things a lot of people can relate to. We’re not all knuckle dragging Neanderthals here in the USA.
The car thing had nothing to do with Americans. I personally don't see any difference in a Canadian metalhead vs. an American metalhead. Plus we're exactly like that with cars here too.
I really got the feeling that Martin's favorite genere is punk. Now look at Pete's face expression when Martin is talking about punk. Says it all.
That always happens lol One time .. Martin brought up Husker Du .. Pete was like huh?
Yeah I tried, I'm pretty open minded, alot of my friends were into it. I'm with Pete. Cant stand it.
Prior to pop punk in the mid 90's, virtually all punk albums never sold a lot of copies in America. Draw your own conclusions.
Pete is kind of an oldster. I make fun of both oldsters and youngsters because I'm very much narcissistic when it comes to music. And I'm evil, which I'm very proud of. I'm evil. E-V-I-L. K-O-D-A. Got that from a Phineas & Ferb song. And I'm evil for extra credit. And yes, I also know about Am I Evil by Diamond Head. Awesome song by the way.
@@mikek8553 Punk I don't mind, I hate bubble gum punk. I also don't like Sex Pistols and the Clash because they were more into fashion than into rebellion. Like Malcolm McLaren once said: punk is fashion. Yes it was back then. True punk bands were obscure and didn't care much about publicity. But who cares about punk when you have metal? Metal was more aggressive and heavier. Even the most rebellious punk band sounded stupid in comparsion. Do you read that Martin?😆
The level of sophistication and craftsmanship in the music and lyrics of artists like Irving Berlin, Cole Porter, Harold Arlen, Richard Rogers, Larry Hart, Oscar Levant, Kay Swift, Frank Loesser, Dorothy Fields, Sammy Cahn, Jimmy Van Heusen and Julie Stein, among many, has never been equaled. Their collective work is known as "The Great American Songbook" for a reason. Over almost a hundred years, the music and lyrics have remained popular, continued to be widely played and have found their own level of what I'd call perfection.
This is the "most universal" and "touches hearts" very specific pece of perfect.
I got into Metal at age 14 and then got into Classical Music. I actually began to get a little snobby about Classical - began to see it as 'objectively superior'. Then I changed my mind - I realized I couldn't live without Metal - that it had something special and irreplaceable.
I think we have to remember too that Bach and Beethoven represent only 0.0001% of Classical music. They're the elite, most remembered figures. So while we live in a time where there are tens of thousands of Metal bands - we get the impression that the average quality level is lower just because we are exposed to all of the rubbish as well as the greats.
Iron Maiden and Black Sabbath represent the 0.0001% of Metal.
I think people have rose tinted goggles on the quality of music from any older era - because for example they look back at the Seventies or Eighties and see - wow all the music was great back then! But they neglect to realize that when you live through that time - there's a ton of forgettable stuff that goes by the wayside and doesn't get shown to the upcoming generations who look back at it.
Yeah, for awhile, all I knew was Metallica, Pantera, and Megadeth in high school and then came my entrance in to metal being Tool, Slipknot, SOAD, Deftones, Korn, and Mudvayne. Then I went back to the old heads and as the years went by I found bands that were of a different style and realized the full spectrum of metal.
37:00 Martin whipping out the Hip Hop CD's 💿 was a jaw dropping moment 🤯 🤣 I also enjoy some of the 90s stuff also, I'm typically a classic hard rock and metal guy but I have a lot of variety in my collections too. Classical symphonic orchestral music is also a taste of mine, there's no right or wrong with personal taste right? Cheers Gents, fascinating chat as always!
Right? The better question would be "Did Mahler write the most perfect music?" and that would still be a silly question.
@@Paolo8772 😂 😂
@@JackMcLeodJr I love this channel though. My ex likes it even better; I save up a week or two of stuff she'll like for her when she visits.
always look forward to the fun house, great show once again. thank you.
What a great description of pop music Martin!
So much content, I get to feeling for these dudes families!
Punk and blues actually have a lot in common. Both being very direct and stripped down forms of music.
As a huge fan of music, period, from metal to prog, to classical, jazz, funk, indie rock, and much more, this was one of the most enjoyable, thought-provoking discussions I've heard on SOT! Great job, Pete and Martin! For me, the "perfect" music can differ from day to day. Sometimes, I want the musical technicality of metal, prog, and experimental jazz. Sometimes, I want the deep, raw groove of blues and funk.
Donati and Sherinian are two favorites of mine . I will definitely be trying to tune in for that one ! Thanks Pete and Thanks Martin
Though I'm not that familiar with Metal music, I really enjoy the channel. Today's show was fantastic. I really appreciated the discussion of the other types of music that was discussed, especially the segment on Jazz.
Great show. I believe that there is great music to be found in every type of music. Whatever floats your boat as we say in Canada.
What I like the most about this channel is the relationships you have with all the contributors you have. Music should bring people together even though we may at times disagree on what album is great or not so great.
It's all good.
2 Points: For me perfect music comes with good melodies, because they are universal. There's a reason why Jazz-Musicians chose to play Versions of Beatles-Songs etc. A good melody is undeniable and transcends genre-limitations. That's why for me the very niche genre of Power Pop is rather perfect. People who write great songs, play their instruments and lyrically, they are about the human condition (love, etc. :) ) That's also why in a "IN the Prog Seat" Episode Steven Reid mentioned loving the Bangles and everyone chimed in. The appeal of that music is undeniable. Gosh, what a great genre.
2. point: For me Rock n Roll and all its derivatives is basically a Folk Art, that's why I always saw a huge similarity between early Blues and Punk. "Three Chords and the truth" (as someone said about country I think). The early Punk Bands (Sex Pistols, Ramones, Germs, Damned, Dicks...) really all have aspects in their approach to music that remind me of early Blues.
Bonus: Just so to repeat myself: "Gosh, how I love Power Pop". But Metal is cool too.
Love the analogy of having an ice cream cone with a beer Martin, when trying to listen to vocals in jazz. As a general rule, I do not like ice cream with my beer! 😂
There is actually quite a bit of improvisation in classical music and Western art music in general. Tony MacAlpine did a good interview with Rick Beato about a year ago where he talked about the misconception of baroque and classical music being completely rigid.
Very relevant conversation in these times of the dawn of the AI. Thanks 🍺🤘!
I like all genres of music from all decades including metal. If it makes you feel good then its a perfect music
It's a fun topic to discuss, but IMHO there's no such thing as perfect music. It's often the imperfections that set one musical style or band apart from another and make that music unique.
Yes, it’s too objective.
Whatever type/style of music you like, is perfect.....to/for you
For me perfect music is music that moves you, whether it moves your body or your mind. It will be subjective to the listener of what is perfect and what is moving to me may not move you in the same way. My tastes are all over the place and there are a lot of songs, bands, artists, and genres that move me in ways that others do not. Every genre has its own unique capability to be perfect to a different person just as every person is unique. Great topic today!
It should move your emotions too. That's the best kind of music!
Correct on stereo equipment Martin back in the day as a student i worked summer holidays in Tandy which never really took on in here in the UK .
We were trained to sell their hi end equipment and customer services brought more back than was kept by the customers lol.
I think it just depends on the specific sub genre of metal and the artist that writes the music. If you're going for full on Tech- death, progressive metal stuff, then yes you're bound to produce music that's super clean and proficient yet if your goal is being the best black metal artist or something it's those imperfections (noisy production, out of tune instruments, unclear song structures) that make your music appealing. It's all the idea and its means.
watching this after the Iron Maiden concert in Prague and I can tell you for sure that heavy metal is indeed the perfect music...
The title of this video is perfect for Betteridge's law: "Any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered by the word no."
Which is the correct answer to this question.
I will still see the video later, of course!
For me,Metal is a perfect music. It is my passion,my religion,my life. I can't imagine living without it. Yes,it is perfect.
The "perfection" of prog is in large part the journey on which the song or album take you. You don't end in the same place you began.
True. And the reason that Kansas is so great is manifold. They are, to a man, incredible musicians, among whom no one takes center stage, although I do believe that they lost a bit of greatness when Dave Hope, Robby Steinhardt, and particularly Kerry Livgren (a masterful songwriter, composer, orchestrator, and lyricist) left the band and went on to write and play other music. What a band!!!! Sooo underrated. And so listenable. Especially live! And still playing great prog after 50 years.
Mr Pete. I’d love to see you expound upon this topic to include genre. That’s a rabbit hole I know. It seems redundant to cover NWOBHM again but, Algy Ward just passed and Tank were very influential in that scene. They’re highly respected. There’s some bands that don’t get too much attention and Tank were definitely one of them. The early stages of Thrash. I was there for that with the really underground stuff. Thrust, Hallows Eve, Nasty Savage, At War, Whiplash, Dark Angel. Then move on to NYC Hardcore vs west coast Hardcore.
Cool show. I'd like to suggest a discussion on gatekeeping in the future. That's a pretty hot topic these days.
I never considered metal to be perfect music. Do I love metal? Yes, absolutely I love metal music to death. But am I going to act like it's the greatest music ever? Both yes and no. Music was never meet to be perfect. I'm not even sure what I would consider to be perfect music. I just see it as art. Music is art. What is art? Art is what you make of it, no matter if it's music, movie, or painting. Art is art. Art is a way of self expression. It makes you who you are as a person. And metal music is a form of art.
I agree, music is art.. there's no perfect music. Metal though is perfect for me!!
That makes me wonder why we all talk about great and perfect production as if that, too, isn't a matter of personal preference. Hardcore punk fans, for instance, probably don't want the crystal clear "perfection" of Moby's Play on their Circle One demotapes. We'll say the worst singing and guitar playing in the world is "great" if it's antagonistic, dissonant, and influential, but we don't extend the same malleability to production value. It's kind of bizarre when you think about it.
Art is art unless Hunter Biden makes it. 😂
When I was a pre teen listening to Marilyn Manson and Eminem, one day I got Stained Class by Judas Priest. I put it on and experienced perfection.
Theres a Green Day compilation called "God's Favourite Band". That should be Judas Priest's title!
I actually do love Green Day more than Judas Priest. Judas Priest are two spots behind my top 10. 10 is The Cure and 11 is The Kinks. I have to give The Kinks a lot of credit because they're very underrated and don't get a lot of attention. Do people talk about them a lot? I believe so, yes. And I love them more than The Rolling Stones and Led Zeppelin. Metallica is up at 9, which is one spot ahead of the top 10 because of Kill Em All and Ride the Lighting both being in my top 10 rock/metal albums of all time. Ride the Lighting is at the 2 spot. My top 2 metal bands are Motorhead and Iron Maiden.
Actually Kill Em All is not in my top 10 anymore, but it's somewhere in the top 15. However, that album is fantastic and I talked a lot about Ride the Lighting very highly. Awesome album and I don't care if Fade to Black or For Whom the Bells get overplayed. These songs are bangers.
Great last point guys.
For me the epic In prog music is the equivalent of what a smash hit was in the 70s. Once Supper's Ready Close to Edge and Thick as a Brick became huge albums, Many prog bands started to do it. Also every genre of music has its snobs. Believe it or not both blues and metal have a ton of snobby obnoxious fans.
Popoff and Pardo are at it again and class is in session about "perfect music". Another very interesting discussion over the genres included. As a fan of classical music, include a little more comment regarding such as the pleasure or hearing experience of the music can be strongly emphasized by a change in tempo or, in live performance, the effect of the conductor and her/his interpretation of tempo, emphasis, etc. But, as concluded and as agreed, we all hear things differently and one person's perfection may be another's cacophony. Thanks, gents. There ya go!
I'll bite. Do you have a MS Word document where you store "Popoff and Pardo are at it again" so you don't have to type it every time?
@@rolfmadison1385 It is typed every time and predates when Pete named it The Funhouse. Always sounded like a great name for a consultant group and pd it has just stuck all this time. Thanks for asking!
Always Great Topics and Discussions
Not sure if it`s possible to call any one genre or style of music "perfect", but I can think of certain songs that strike me as such. Some songs seem to have the perfect combination of notes, chord changes, melodies, vocal and instrumental performances, along with just the right feeling and attitude. When nothing can be taken away or added to the song to make it any better, to me, that`s a perfect song.
It's all about what music does for you in relation to where you're at in that moment. I love Cannibal Corpse and Dying Fetus in the morning to get me going, then Porcupine Tree and King Buffalo in the evenings to wind down. It's "perfect" when it scratches that itch just right that YOU needed scratched in a specific way. Situational, based off our life experiences, what's going on that day, the weather, mood, a lot of factors... With all that said, I find heavy metal to be MY perfect music. It's the culmination of decades of music evolution in my own life that just got heavy, louder, more technical, and more beautiful along the way as my tastes developed and became more refined with my own life experiences. Still waiting for a band to top Opeth for me on this journey. They have managed to wrap it all together in a way that has profoundly changed my life and how I look at music. I guess you could call that some type of perfect🤘🧝♂
Your damn straight it is!! It would take me all night, to list all the benefits that metal has given me, for 37 years now. It's been there for me every single day!!
Hi Pete & Martin,
Love your show - recently discovered Sea of Tranquility, and I'm kinda on a binge watching run through your "catalogue". (Re)-Discovered a lot of classics and obscure stuff (especially from the Prog Rock corner).
However, I'm 8 minutes into this here podcast, and I have to admit: I'm not quite getting it. What do you mean with "perfect" exactly? Is perfection even something that can be discussed on an objective basis? And if it is all subjective - couldn't we just have avoided the term "perfection", and maybe just called it "taste" or something like that?
Don't get me wrong - I love what you do, and I love what Martin brings to the table. But I'm a bit confused by this one :D
... Let's see where the rest of the vid is going, i guess... ;)
The answer to that question would be YES.
It's in the blood and to these ears, it's perfect, well, the bands I like anyway.
Bottom line: Nothing is perfect, unless a particular piece of music hits you at the right place at the right time.
And FOR ME, Metal is the ultimate music.
I dig the philosophical and deep nature of this video! Jazz argument wins.
A problem with Martin's argument is that kids do like heavy metal. Loud distorted guitars are not an acquired taste like coffee or whiskey. It appeals to kid's tastes because it's NOT sophisticated. It's more primitive. Heavy metal is basically an adolescent taste. As we get older we learn to appreciate finer music like classical and jazz while still retaining an affection for heavy metal.
Yes, very true. Kids can like metal too. I wonder if they can like it basically for the same reasons, but you can also add to the portfolio, it can sound scary.
Big fan of you guys. Been watching this channel for years, along with The Contrarians and the podcast.
That being said, I still don’t understand what the hell you guys are talking about here, haha!!
As you mentioned near the end, “perfect” music is completely subjective to the individual, time, and place so I really don’t understand even attempting to attach that label to any one genre (or song for that matter). You can’t really debate what the perfect meal is, or the perfect film, or vacation, or spouse, can you?
Love you guys, and the conversation is sort of interesting, but I feel like defining anything as the “perfect” music is an exercise in futility.
Love the content though. Thanks!
Love the show guys normally but not convinced this one worked.
I'd be interested in a tangent: specific examples of perfection for a genre. I don't really see how to argue that a genre itself can be perfect, but I could talk all day about perfect instances. e.g. Dokken's "In My Dreams" is perfect hair metal; Mozart's 40th is a perfect symphony, etc.
Agreed...This did elicit a lot of comments though
There are perfect songs but no whole genre of music that can be called perfect, especially when something like Jazz or Metal encompases such a diverse range of styles and artists.
martin was on fire on this one :)
It's funny to think Super Tramp jump-started my progressive rock binge.
What a hook!
I hear you. They did make some great progressive songs, along with some wonderfully catchy pop songs too. I'm a big fan of the band's '70s albums, including the deeper, more progressive, album tracks that were not hit singles.
Not to sound crazy but but I'm sure I do. All. Music is perfect We've heard it our whole lives it's music to the ears. Never mentioning a. Particular kind of music we all get to fill in the blank
Great episode. Martin cracked me up with his descriptions of punk and pop.....😂. Fun episode. I look forward to it every Friday.....
I am the same with hip hop as Martin. A minute fraction of all the releases since like 1980 I can actually enjoy.
Public Enemy are the only rap albums I own, and I own their full catalog - genius music that towers above other rap and means something!
Finding the perfect music in an imperfect world is the journey for each of us.
The magic is in the alchemy, and each person must find their own elixir. We are all wired a little differently, so each of us has a little different mixture of chords, tonality, tempo and vibration that we search for.
And at any given time, what we are searching for determines what we consider ‘perfect’ at that moment.
What riff gives that surge of adrenaline? What melody enhances your serotonin levels? What tone gives that hit of dopamine? Once you find what works for you, you can spend a lifetime immersing yourself in endless possibilities. From the most primal urges to the most cerebral compositions, music offers something for each aspect of us.
Excellent summation of how music is received by humans of all stripes! Great stuff! And yet I still get chapped ass when folks don't love what I do....
Metal is just a more powerful version of classical music.
Joey DeMaio is a big Richard Wagner fan, it shows in Manowar music. Personally, my two favorite classical composers have always been Bach and Händel, a more recent favorite classical composer is Gerald Finzi.
@@LarryFleetwood8675 The third movement of Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata is basically an Eddie Van Halen guitar solo. Arpeggios galore!
The concept of perfect music is quite tricky. In order to obtain perfection one needs to check all the boxes, it takes planning. But if you do all this planning, then the music may lack imagination and inovation. And aren't creativity and inovation mandatory to perfect music? Maybe they are not essential to write a perfect "song", but aren't they essential to create perfect "music"?
Prog is my favorite genre but I love lots of other genres. I've just never liked dance music, with some exceptions of course, so things like hip-hop are off my radar. Because of what pop is like I believe that is the hardest genre to write a perfect song in. For every Baker Street there's a million Who Let the Dogs Out. Ugh!
Great show guys; the question is, perfect for who?… me at six years old hearing Bay City Rollers “Saturday Night” or my grandmother, her entire adult life listening to every note of “ La boheme” in pure happiness… lots of “perfect” just depends on who and when…
Well, the for who is what we were trying to remove - and make it all these mirco supposings on the nature and definition of perfect.
Perfect for me might not be perfect for you. It's a matter of taste or likes. And then again, nothing is perfect, maybe almost perfect are better words ...
Good episode/discussion.
What is perfect? All music is subjective to the listener, Metal is perfect for me because I love heavy guitar riffs, creative and high cailbar musicianship and the huge variety of styles and influences in Metal.
he got his A's and E's kinda mixed up but God bless him for it, i seen Gregg Allman in an interview one time and Gregg said Rap is short for repulsive! i totally laughed my ass off. man! i sure do miss that guy. \m/ \m/
Did I hear it right that Martin said he had 18,000 CD's? Holy cow.
Yeah. Pete's collection is impressive but it's only half of what Martin has and that's only cd's, he has so much vinyl as well.
Yes you did!🤯
Yeah, but 9000 of them are George Lynch related albums.....from this year.
@@danielwolski873 That's awesome...I guess I'll stop complaining now about needing space for my meager collection of around 1,100.
I remember reading that Donny Osmond's fave song to play live is "Crazy Horses". Kind of feel sorry for the dude, he seems to be a metalhead at heart.
Crazy Horses slaps! Crazy to think that fireball came from The Osmonds! They must have been dosed while in the studio.
@@treff9226 I only heard it a couple of years ago. I couldn't believe it, what fun and heavy song
Thank you for a very interesting subject and discussion! I think that Martin´s distinction between child and adult taste is too simplified. I´m maybe an exception but I have a classical background so I listened mostly to classical music when I was a child. Does it mean that I had an adult taste as a child or does it mean that classical music appeals to children? In one of my favourite movies ever, Amadeus, Mozart was portrayed as an unique musical genius and an incredibly childish person at the same time. In my opinion Mozart makes perfect music. It´s simple and complex. It´s joyful and serious. And everything at the same time. Bach made perfect music. His use of counter melodies was totally unique, but when I listen to his music it feels like everything is in right order at right place. However I´m not listening that often to either of them anymore. When I go back to my childhood, I loved The Magic Flute by Mozart and The Last Command by W.A.S.P. side by side. I loved a Finnish band called Dingo which was a New Wave rock band. They used a lot of romantic lyrics and pop hooks in their music and they had a very (small)girl dominated fan base. I loved the unmasked era of Kiss and I loved Twisted Sister as pretty much every boy in my age did. I remember that thrash was too one dimensional to me but I also loved Iron Maiden. The fact of the matter is that my taste has broadened when I´ve grown older but it hasn´t actually changed that much. On the other hand I´ve always loved sugar and I´ve always hated beer. In addition if we use cathegories like child taste and adult taste, we should at least use also teenage taste. For instance I could put black metal in the frame of teenage taste but never ever in the frame of adult taste.
If you hate beer then SoT is not for you...😎Mozart is the one classical composer who speaks to me most, I actually hear the roots of modern prog in many of his compositions. Agreed about the child/adult taste analysis being too simplistic but ultimately I think that about this entire topic of trying to describe why people like the music they like. It goes beyond logic, there are as many unique combinations of musical likes as there are people on the planet. Speaking personally a lot of the music I learned to like as a teenager has stuck with me - I think that's true of many, nostalgia is a powerful force. Also explains the fascination with retro music (that seems to run in cycles)
@@wolf1977 Good points!
Is this the most abstract and philosophically-oriented topic on the Funhouse yet? That said there's just no way i could even fathom talking about this. I have no conception at all of what "perfect music" might be. Words like "pure sound" are mentioned here but, what is that? A single note, unending singular vibration? That might be perfect but would anyone listen to it? I just can't fathom the concept of "perfection" very well, i guess, especailly as we're talking about art, which is given to us by creators who do it because they have to, need to, not in a quest for the perfect thing, which is something that's impossible to measure. There are albums I might find absolutely flawlessly pleasing to my brain and heart, but others might and certainly are likely to feel differently about them. And genres are so varied in terms of quality, so talking about individual albums or songs is the only way I could even begin to approach this.
A relevant Townshend quote: "There once was a note, pure and easy, playing so free like a breath rippling by...The note is eternal, I hear it, it sees me. Forever we blend it, forever we die...There once was a note, listen". This is an abstract topic for sure but also the wrong question to ask (IMO), as if the point of music were to make it "perfect" (whatever that means)
The perfect music is what you personally enjoy. Nothing less, nothing more. Completely subjective. I know folks who live and die by the Beatles, others consider them completely childish and boring, others consider Grateful Dead as perfect, while some find them unlistenable! You, the music YOU enjoy is prefect….for you! We can all agree only Bob Dylan is universally PERFECT!! 😂
I agree, but I think you mean "subjective", not "objective".
Bob is a great songwriter, but as a singer, he is a great example of imperfection. Kinda like Johny Rotten. :D
Bob Dylan as a lyricist towers above anyone else......as a singer?.......Bob Dylan as a lyricist towers above everyone else
@@marianmach7901Both singers are great and have a lot of personality and attitude that perfectly fit their music. I prefer both to let’s say Ian Gillan or Ronnie James Dio, singers you might consider flawless and „perfect“.
@@treff9226 absolutely, his voice leaves a lot to be desired, but this isn't opera or American Idol. It's passion! It's the delivery of those amazing lyrics. Voice, I agree, it's not technically great!
PERHAPS ... because it is most reminiscent of another genre of my fave type of music: classical. Orchestral, film soundtracks, concertos, etc.
Damn right it is!!!!
HM has an oeuvre - it has a history that performers have to build on. This puts in the company of classical and jazz. If someone writes sth that sounds too much like ACDC they get ridiculed (you can hint at predecessors but not try to copy them). HM fans are discerning (they analyse music) and hold it to high standards.
The challenge that it faces is that it is limited by its instrumentation - you have to put heavy guitars and a narrow range of vocalist styles to the fore. That is why it is so hard to find good metal music written since the 90s (although there is plenty to be found).
Great discussion. Only one perfect record though,Kind of Blue by Miles.
As Pat Metheny said, "Compared to Bach, we all suck!!". Tend to agree that Bach is likely perfection. Love the rant on prog rock perfection, they are really trying I agree. Everyone's definition of "perfection" is going to differ.
Love this topic! Very engaging.
Charleston Chews are great fresh (Cheap Trick), and frozen (Nazareth)😁
As far as I am concerned the only perfect music is the music my band made in the 80's but sadly the world did not agree. Joking apart another great show, thanks lads.
I find that I prefer progressive music over formulaic music now. And by progressive, I don't necessarily just mean "prog". And if those progressive artists are occasionally "heavy" I enjoy that more than artists who are solely heavy. I like bands and artists that create their own musical pathways. Give me artists that furrow new fields. I don't think any genre attains perfection. There are very few songs or pieces that approach perfection either but there are bands and artists who strive for their own apotheosis. And a crucial ingredient is the evolution of a band's or artist's creative output throughout their careers. Change is integral. The only styles/genres I do not appreciate are Adult-Oriented Rock (Soft Rock), MOR (Middle of the Road) music and contemporary auto-tuned Pop/R & B. And many artists across various genres fall into the first two categories (or end up there later in their careers). Cheers.
So we can't download this video
No way metal is perfect - its too limited to be perfect for me as a variety in music is key. Really there is no one perfect genre. There are most definitely perfect metal songs along with nearly perfect metal albums. It just comes down to great songs, appealing convictions, personas, atmospheres, sentiments, etc. Music is a way to transfer so much feel and unique humanistic qualities. It could be Seek and Destroy by Metallica, The Gambler by Kenny Rogers, All I've Got to Do by The Beatles, Lady Evil by Sabbath, Uptown by Prince, Could You Be Loved bu Marley, Fuzzbox Voodoo by ZZ Top, Casedega by Petty, etc.
Any genre of music is perfect to me
Pete and Martin‘s definition of Heavy Metal is very broad I suppose. To me the term is very much connected to a specific type of heavy rock music I don’t particularly like. My answer is: It can be perfect to an individual just like any other genre.
Bingo - my long-winded post boiled down to a couple of sentences! Except that I'm not sure that anyone loves everything released under any given genre. I'm sure every metalhead has heard metal music he/she didn't like...
To me, metal is heavy rock with a heavily supernatural/psychedelic/tribal vibe. Take away the mysticism, and it becomes either hard rock or some variant of "alternative" like Punk.
@@wolf1977 I agree. Genre x is perfect is a weird statement and nobody likes all the bands playing a certain style of music. It makes much more sense to me if an individual proclaimed „Iron Maiden or Judas Priest make perfect music.“
@@ryanjacobson2508 I would also ascribe some other things to metal like down-tuned guitars (although not always), a 'chugging-type' style & double bass drums (again, not always) with a particular drum sound that as a non-drummer I can't quite describe but can immediately spot (and almost always dislike). And a certain level of loud 'aggression'...Someone once posted a pretty good definition of metal as rock where "the root music (typically blues/psyche) is no longer obvious"
Very interesting conversation this one. I guess "perfection" in any style is achieving an ideal balance between emotion and dexterity. However, debating if a certain style is more "perfect" than another is like debating if a dog is more perfect than a cat. I would say a cat but a lot would disagree. After a certain point, every style of music is extremely demanding and difficult and each demands its particular technique which is not by any means superior or inferior to the others
Perfect music is the genre your in the mood at the time sometimes jazz is perfect sometimes death is perfect and so on when I'm sick jazz is perfect and after hard day at work Doom is perfect
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Metal is for the most part my favorite music but I would say that blues is closer to perfect than metal is. You find blues in all rock genres, jazz, metal, Native American music, Asian. and other styles as well. Other than that I'd say any music that serendipitously meets the listener where they are at the moment of auditory contact is perfect music.
Yes
I guess there are certain genres like progressive rock or classical that require a certain "perfection" in playing instruments, but otherwise music should be about emotion. I'd rather hear a singer who may not always sing perfectly than a singer who sings perfectly but comes across as a robot.
Damn right. But only if it's done correctly.
Different types of music become 'perfect' for a certain mood. Pop is for less intellectual moods or mindsets. Jazz for a more intellectual mindset. Some music has both. Smooth Jazz essentially smooths out the abstract elements of regular jazz; it makes jazz less intellectually complex. Heavy Metal must be an emotional tool for purging aggression. There is/was a band called Comfort in Distortion (love that name). The average person hears true metal music as noise, I hear it as a thunder storm; visceral and exciting, and again, a purging of rampant emotions. Or, is it NOT purging, but taking in that emotion just to feel the thrill. Like staring into a fire. Ultimately, my favorite is heavier prog. That could even be Yes, Genesis, ELP, and others with their heavier rhythm sections. Or Sabbath, DP, LZ, Heep with their embellishments on basic rock songs. Current perfection for me; SCOREDATURA; instrumental modern metal, touches of prog with soloing and song structures. Last thing: as far as vocals, I really need perfection (to my taste), not necessarily a perfect singer, but a perfect texture and personality; Gabriel, Daltrey and Townsend, Anderson (both), Lake, Plant, Gillan, Byron. Even Ozzy, Lydon, Jagger, Joey Ramone, Springsteen, Staley, Cornell, Weiland.
Music for me is emotion and Metal can get the emotion across better than other genres.....any other genre argument.... oh ya? Well we have a double kick!
Is Deep Purple perfect music?
The beginning of speed metal with the song Speed King.
Jazz-like improvisation in the live elongated tracks of Made In Japan.
Did the first collaboration with a classical orchestra more than once in the seventies.
Absolutely did blues with Mistreated.
Absolutely did pop with Woman From Tokyo.
Touched on prog with Fireball.
With Glenn Hughes entering the band some funk and r and b are introduced.
They split up in the seventies (for a time) and individually they explore almost every genre.
Glenn Hughes does a true disco album with Four On The Floor (even if he was a hired hand).
Jon Lord continues with classical.
They about all enter the realm of pop music with Ritchie Blackmore/Roger Glover bringing in Graham Bonnet and Joe Lynn Turner for Rainbow.
Tony Carey leaves Rainbow for solo pop music and the funk Planet P Project.
Roger Glover does electronic music with Mask and country rock with his Guilty Party.
We find ourselves in fusion jazz if we explore Ritchie Blackmore's first replacement in Purple Tommy Bolin and Bolin's playing in Billy Cobham's Spectrum album.
Today look at Blackmore playing renaissance music.
The only reason Purple members did not explore thrash or hip-hop is that would be a bridge too far for the older musicians they are.
Purple's willingness to explore probably contributed to their loss of stature over the years. In the seventies they were regarded with Zeppelin and Sabbath. Even retroactively they have lost that perch.
Excellent analysis of the Purple phenomenon. Virtuoso musicians all, many of whom have dabbled in various genres. Not afraid to take chances. Any perch they have lost is due in large part, in my opinion, to the lack of their (or their management's) embrace of the music industry / music press hype machine.
My answer would be "No" (even though I'm a huge DP fan) because they also put out music that I don't like. If we're strictly sticking to the definition of the word 'perfect' as being "free from flaws/defects" then you'd have to have an artist or band where you literally like/love every single song. Off-hand I can't come up with anyone like that for me personally...But to me musical perfection is not the point anyway so we're already asking the wrong question to start with
@@wolf1977 I did not state plainly my idea, perhaps, since I focused on a singular band and their offshoots. Is hard rock the perfect music? Hard rock bands can, like Deep Purple has, touch upon every genre of music without alienating (to a degree) their audience. Led Zeppelin could do folk. Judas Priest can touch a bit of reggae for a bit (their Turning Circles are playing for me right as I write this). Classic Sabbath can put some jazz in their stew. Rush can be prog and hard rock. Purple can do classical. Southern Rock can do country. Glenn Hughes, Funkadelic and the Red Hot Chili Peppers have fused funk and hard rock. Martin and Pete stuck with strictly pure examples of a genre to find perfection, was that a mistake?
@@richardmay8153 Again I would say Yes (and No), yes because no music (genre) is perfect to everyone and no - for the same reason (doesn't matter what genre or sub-genre, or band, or album, or song you pick)...I'm not even sure I totally understand the concept of "perfect music" as applied to a musical genre (any genre). How can an entire genre be "perfect"? To me that implies that a fan of genre 'x' likes every band & song that falls into that bucket - and who can say that?
I get your point of some types of music encompassing other genres while being popular which is a tribute to it being a 'big tent' (as they say in politics). I like that in music because I like variety, which is why I own a lot of different music. But does that make it "perfect", or "more perfect"? It does make it more interesting, at least to me. Like I said the whole perfection question seems to me like the wrong question to ask from the beginning. Music should touch & connect with the listener, perfection isn't the goal
Yes.
If there is perfect music, you must consider The Blues to be such. Instrument(s), and voice; how simple and unadulterated. It's arguably the root of everything as we know is music, no matter what genre. Jazz, classical, and 60s and 70s RnB dominates the 2nd tier of perfect. All are alterations on the blues form. Rock, heavy metal, progressive __________ (fill-in the blank) and even Punk are all further derivatives of the previous. Raucous, gritty, and distorted, they are far from perfect, yet to my ears are pleasant and interesting to listen to. Pop, I agree with Martin, is the "everyday man's" music meant to be accepted by a wide variety of people. Like in Goldilocks, "it's just right." Yet there is a big difference, in my opinion of Pop from the 50s - 80s, and 90s to present day. Early Pop was melodic in voice and instrumentation. Sometimes thought to be even "sanitized." The present Pop is autotuned, and homogenized, i.e., UNLISTENABLE! Same goes for hip hop and rap. Poetry with basic beats. The "music" backdrop is rarely original, but snippets, or samples of familiar melodies and music of tried-and-true artists. In summary, who needs perfect since it comes down to individual tastes.
Punk was the pure antithesis of perfect music and purposely so, the reality is we all like what we like across all musical genres and I know it would be a stretch to include classical music in the show given that the core content is rock music but it is probably the purist music of all.
It's not perfect music, but an underappreciated one.
I always thought that jazz was not perfect... Improvised music in a called out key. The most perfect music is classical then I would say the near perfect music would be prog as it has classical influence. Metal rock punk is rebellious forms of music that dared to be less structured.
I think ginger baker answered that question, in “Beware Mr. Baker.”
The hardest part of deciding what is perfect , is deciding which bands belong in which genre, and that’s a can of worms best not opened. However if you were to name 20 influential ‘metal bands’ from the last 50 years I would guess you would find influences from classical symphonic music, jazz, blues, the pop of the Beatles, NWOBHM punk influences prog with prog metal. So maybe Metal is the perfect music because it steals from all other genres.
One of the best episodes of At the funhouse with Martin Popoff.
Thank you, thank you and thank you!
Good discussion