New Mopar Vs. Old Mopar And Why I Will Never Support Anything Stellantis Does
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- čas přidán 6. 09. 2024
- We've talked about the unexplained catastrophic engine failures that have plagued the Demon 170 in recent months, and even speculated on a possible cause.
A CZcamsr named Racer X experienced one of these failures with his Demon, and was told by Stellantis that as soon as their engineers we're able to determine what failed they would inform him so he could pass in information on to his viewers.
And then they changed their mind.
@RacerX9 @ocmotivator @TKsGarage @ButterDaInsider
#Dodge #musclecar #challenger
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Stellantis doesn't even sound like a car company. What it does sound like is one of those mystery drugs being promoted on TV. "Ask your doctor if Stellantis is right for you!"
Some side effects are multiple visits to the dealership, migraines, moodiness, and instant high blood pressure.
Get immediate medical attention if you get total scrotal implosion
If you or a loved one has been affected by Stellantis, please call Dewey, Fleecem, & Howe Law Firm today.
@@gmmakesmehurl What happened to Cheatem?
When I was racing back in the 80's direct connection was really the only place to get both parts and support. Had some questions one time , got a phone number from somewhere and after a minute on the phone got transfered to an engineer type guy , told him what we were attempting and I could tell right away that he was a car guy, and I think went out of his way to help us over the next couple months, as well as telling us exactly what we needed to do and the part numbers to go with it. Then he called like 6 months later to see how it worked. Try getting that kind of customer service anywhere today.
Customer service has become a 20th-century relic, unfortunately.😢
I bought a "Hemi" style HP Carter mechanical pump from Direct Connection (pre-Mopar Performance) to run on my first MoPar, a '66 Coronet 500 with a transplanted '68 440. I ran it for a good while and suddenly the fuel pump failed. I took the pump apart and the lever had failed right at it's connection to the diaphragm. I contacted the DC Helpline and they transferred me to an engineer, and he gave me an authorization number to return it for his inspection. In THREE DAYS I had a replacement brand new pump and a letter from the engineer apologizing and thanking me for submitting the failed sample. I still have the replacement he sent, it has been on 3 motors so far!
The helpline was great.
😮
there's a recent story (may even be true) that GM fielded a call from a Pontiac Sunfire owner, claiming his car wouldn't start after buying Vanilla ice cream but would after other varieties of ice cream. So GM sent an engineer, who figured out Vanilla ice cream sat in a tub closest to the clerk being the most popular flavor...and so what happened was one component in the complainer's car didn't get the time to cool off and thus impeded the start process.
that part was re-designed, and GM decided that even the crazy questions were worth considering from then on. while the consumer has long been considered "the last factor in the quality control line", it's still a nice idea if only it was true.
Mopar Performance was around before Direct Connection. Direct Connection was a wider network of Mopar Performance parts. The "P" part number performance parts actually had no warranty and that's the reason their pricing could compete with aftermarket high performance parts. Some high performance were regular production parts and their part numbers did begin with a "P." Originally, to buy Mopar Performance parts, you had to order them or go to a participating dealer, but when Direct Connection was started, you order ant Mopar Performance / Direct Connection parts from any Mopar dealer, even if they weren't a Mopar Performance dealer and that's why they called it "Direct Connection." It was easier to find a local place to buy Mopar Performance parts. Many years later, they dropped the Direct Connection name because young people had no idea what it meant and went back to using only "Mopar Performance." I have a 1964 Mopar Performance catalog and a 1975 Direct Connection catalog. I think Mopar Performance started in 1962 and Direct Connection started in 1974, to make it easier to buy Mopar Performance parts. Before Direct Connection, Mopar Performance parts had to be bought from certain Mopar dealers, but with Direct Connection, all Mopar Dealers could order Mopar Performance parts. The parts were generally better than aftermarket, speed shop parts and were priced competitively, but only due to not having any warranty, which most racing parts didn't really have anyway. At least Mopar didn't pretend that their high performance parts had any warranty, while the aftermarket had stated warranties, that they rarely honored, due to being used for "racing." The Mopar parts with a part number that didn't start with a "P" did have some type of warranty, while the performance parts from Mopar with part numbers that started with a "P" did not have any official warranty, but this kept their prices down.
They stopped calling it direct connection because sum certian church org protested it
Stellantis is basically telling us their cars are shit. Just another sign of the times.
EXACTLY. Everything new SUCKS!!! Doesn’t matter if it’s a new truck, or a new microwave- it’s all junk!! 🤬
@@SmittySmithsonite Yep. The enshittification of everything.
It's like the 70s, but way worse.
They weren't trying to stop our right to repairs back in the original Direct Connection era...
Times changed even Ford and gm doesnt want you to repair your own vehicle today!
Yup. They literally sold us the blueprints cheap and gave us catalogs like Sears Christmas and showed us exactly what to do to run in certain drag racing brackets! We had them right on the kitchen table. Oh the memories...Now we are AMC. Keep all your parts guys
Making throw away cars so sad cost to much to fix sounds like it needs an external oiling sytem
@@steveburlingame1935 I think something like 25% of a dealerships income is through service maybe more. People want stupid features and to lower cost of production and assembly cars are put together in as few separate stages as possible and the engineers give very little thought to serviceability. Always trying to maximize space for the people and less for the drivetrain etc in smaller cars packed with electronics. One day im hoping someone will take a chance on selling a car based on price and simplicity and shoot for pure volume to make the profit like a vw bug or darts, novas, pintos etc but I think we would need a recession or depression or possibly wartime for that to happen
There's a dealership (stealership) a half hour away asking (sit down for this) $395,877+ taxes& licenses for a '23 170. Can be financed for $5309/2wk. @2.99% for 36 mo. Total cost of finance $414,102. For that kind of money I'd rather put it in real estate rather than a rolling bucket of bolts.
... for those who have an unlimited money supply
@@jimlong2469 Certainly, not me.
I think they found a design flaw and don’t want to disclose it as they rightfully would be sued
Most likely all of them have it!
Stellantis paid all that money for Chrysler only to kill Dodge, Chrysler & Ram brands. They will eventually be forced to sell off those brands but the question is whether those brands survive that long for that to take place.
no, prolly Ram and Jeep will survive cause that's the only value. Dodge is dead!
They’ll sell the brands to the Chinese. Like MG.
I live next to the Chrysler plant in Belvidere Illinois and the amount of stuff going to the plant and coming out of the plant has became minimal at best
Stellantis didnt pay money for them as Stellantis only existed when Chrysler,Dodge,Jeep,RAM and the other brands joined...Stellantis is a new company,but nonetheless..
@@mongo64071 Buick is already made in China all their vehicles are and sold in America..Mustang has a Chinese transmission..All cars will be electric so all vehicles will be Chinese soon enough! 2035 no more gas powered cars or trucks!
Brotherhood of money is more like it. My father knows a guy who spent $250K on a 170 and my initial response was "he knows it's a Dodge, right?"
Your Father knows a guy what’s his name. Where did he work at . What city does he live in. 😂
The only car I would pay that much for is the right generation two Corvette in absolute mint condition
@@Daniel-fd3wp John, Lincoln Electric, and Cleveland
@@rmszucs1 I hope you're kidding lol
@@davidmann4533 that would be a rip off
HEMI DARTS RAN IN 9'S AND DIDNT EAT IT SELF.
Back in the day International Harvester had casting and part numbers on everything. If something failed, they knew what batch it was from, the date it was on the line, and who touched it every step of the way. And this was before computers! I’m speculating this particular engine failure has to do with globally sourced materials, and as you say, momentary loss of lubrication.
Hi my dad worked at international havster in Melrose Park Illinois he worked in parts catalogs he had to explain the instructions so a eight year old kid would understand it
Chinese crap
old mopar engineers were actually interested in the hobby and wanted to do this job. The new engineers just do their job.
Just a pay check, not a passion, you can also blame the bean counters and ceos for this bullshit. It's why I own a 2007 Classic (GMT800) Silverado.
I went to automotive engineering school specifically because I was an enthusiastic. I couldn't even get an interview at any of the student job fairs that were held. They didn't/don't want anyone who cares about cars. They want people that are willing g to do whatever they are told to do.
@@shadowopsairman1583 Agreed..but for me GMT 400 is the limit, not GMT 800...800 heater cores buried in the dash, bad instrument clusters, the really thin sheet metal introduced on those trucks, too much snap-on plastic exterior parts, the really thin bumpers that are half plastic, universal rocker panel rust-out, the list goes on....
@@dyer2cycleGMT400 and Squarebodies
@@timothykeith1367 My favorites are the 67-72's, though....
Bottom Line: The MBA Bean Counters and Lawyers do not see an immediate boost to next Quarter's earnings by sharing anything, and perhaps also laying themselves open to a class action lawsuite makes it not worth the risk. They can't measure "reputation" or "impact of insulting customers and would-be customers" so that does not exist.
As someone with an MBA, it's how you apply it. I'm one of the few people at work (and I work in an automotive setting) who still works on his own cars, appliances, small engines, etc. Some of the most ignorant people I know have the highest education. It depends on how it's used.
They're just operating like an average company right now. They investigated the engine to see if they'll need to issue a service action, a TSB, or just gamble on the warrenty. In terms of their would be customers, they want them to move on to the generation of cars.
Playing in a field where you are "king of the hill", you can't afford bad publicity. The risk of sharing was felt to be a greater risk than the risk of being transparent. Competition would crucify them.
Not transparent
Never admit you're wrong. Don't ever f%$k up a perfectly good lie. Don't ever take a test that you know you can't pass.
Our local Dodge dealer here in Australia had an engine failure in a dodge ram 5.7 1500 . They pulled the engine and found a tag stuck in the oil pickup , had the engine builders name on it 😅🤦🏻
I work for a company that supplies for stellantis. They are fucking junk
Could have told you that when they were bought by daimler benz...
I don’t know why this is such a revelation!
@@shadowopsairman1583 Chrysler been junk long before that. K car era is where their quality went DOWNHILL fast.
I used to machine 5.2 rods here in Detroit in the 90s They were shit even back then . The piston pin bores were way out of center all the time . They came in that way . I used to bore the crank bores on a horizontal mill before I became an actual tool and die machinist and not a button pusher .
I am a tech at a Dodge Ram Jeep Chrysler dealership. Stellantis is crap. No customer support no minimal dealership support.
Add... Imagine how much easier it is today for the engineers to communicate with the gearhead public today vs back then. Thats the proof they do not care.
A rich guy with no mechanical ability what so ever buys a $150000 car and it blows up cause its crap and the rich guys at the company say screw you we have your money .
The 170 is so old school that you can only take it down the track about 4 or 5 times before the oiling kills it. Just like the original
Rebuild after every weekend
@@318Magnum If dodge is willing to give you a new engine every week for the life of the warranty 150k is a decent price.
Thats why I'm a small block chevy guy lol.
@@The0utmode Small block chevies would have the same problem but you can buy a baffled oil pan. I had a 383 stroker built from my 350 and the machinist said the engine looked new, I had to tell him it had 60000 miles on it, and had been raced.
@@The0utmode that's also why I put magnum pans on my engines
A small speculation as a young mechanical engineer:
There are a lot of us that are really invested in our hobbies out of work. I don't know about those engineers specifically, but if I had to guess, many of them are at least sometimes taking their car to the drag strip or track or something. Its entirely possible they can't really tell you what they are learning without negative consequences for their career if the company says "its proprietary."
They used a rear sump set up on the Drag Pak because they know what they're doing. There's been talks of mass layoffs in their North American engineering team so you might be right in that they can't (or won't) say in fear for their career.
There are no Engineers....they are replaced by A.i
Those Chrysler engineers even catered to the Hot Rod crowd. I have one of those bulletins that details how to install a 383 into a 1933 Dodge. It just happened that I had [still have] a 1933 Dodge Coupe & a DeSoto 361 engine, so naturally I sent away, by snail mail, my request for this bulletin. [I still have that too] Of course, mail from here in Oz to the US & return took a while, but that bulletin was a treasure trove of info.
In the intervening fifty or so years, the 361 is gone, replaced by an LA 360, which is now being replaced by a 1957 Dodge 325 Hemi.
I’m on board with the front sump idea. When I worked in a custom piston shop I was the guy they would send all the broken parts to for analysis and I’d make recommendations and I saw a lot of front sump gassers eat bearings once they got them launching good.
Glad I'm a old school Chevy guy, oil pan sump to the back, LIKE GOD INTENDED! 😁
Hear that high pitch sound? It's Walter Chrysler spinning in his grave 😢😮. And they crying sound is the old Ramchargers weeping.
Key thing, being used for it's "intended purpose," I bet every single one would suffer from this issue if most weren't under a cover in climate controlled storage, they would really have an issue if people didn't buy them solely as investments
$150,000 race car should have a dry sump
A *real* race car would
Rear sump works just fine for drag racing at this level
@@lb9gta307no
It has ZERO to do with the MSRP of the car yet the price tag is likely part of why Stellantis is tight lipped. If this is oil starving due to sharing oil pick up placement with similar looking Dodge Challengers that don't have anything close to the same capability to LEAVE the line on slicks you could make that argument based in this car's capability. This is your better argument for either figuring out a way to place the pick up at the back of the oil pan or if that isn't possible then going to a dry sump. That would have added to already big price tag. Yet, I'm sure it wouldn't have dented demand for the car one little bit. What I really wonder is this: Assuming this is the problem. How did the engineers miss it? Keeping a solution to themselves suggests Stellantis doesn't want to have to retro fit and possibly replace virtually every Demon 170 engine they've sold to date. If they admit to this problem while all these cars are still under warranty it's not hard to imagine that every current owner could argue for a new engine or at least bearing check and/or replacement no matter how it's currently running. Failure to do this could easily see lawyers raining down on the company. This car is a stupid expensive toy. The majority of the people who bought them likely have their own lawyer on speed dial for what ever reason from business ownership or tax, trust and estate planning. This is not a group the company could expect to just suck it up without making a big PR and legal problem.
Yes.
Buzz Aldrin:"Ouch. Is that your ring?"
Alien: "No. It's my watch."
Buzz Aldrin - A Liar for Hire.
No one ever stepped on the moon let alone traveled beyond low earth orbit.
Let me tell you a story about a close friends New Mopar Challenger. The weather seal on the window warped with age since it wasn't garaged. Rain/condensation gets past the seal and drips directly onto the door's lock regulator electronics. Mopar still sells the regulator because they go out so often, but, they discontinued making the window seal.
Lmfao. Classic Mopar. Like the Jeep Wrangler sunvisors that break by 20k miles. They could change the design but why bother when they can just keep selling disposable ones.
You've made countless stellar videos but I have to say in this one truer words have never been said. The "MOPAR" we know and love is LONG gone and I'm old enough to remember our beloved brand. So so sad.
once the cause is stated and understood as a design flaw, the class action lawsuit is filed by lawyers. Lawyers get 500 million, owners "share" in a settlement of a few hundred bucks. The difference between now and "back in the day" is these class action suits.
The engineers for the big three in the old days were real people, corporate America has been lost for decades now, lack of can do mentality.
Until the govt. interferred like they did in the 70's and forced ridiculous requirements on them in the name of gas savings and ruined them, just like they are starting to do now
Let's be fair. Mopar gave us incredible muscle cars, but only from about 1965 thru 1972 or so. Then (due to EPA) they crapped out and gave us nothing "muscle" for decades. Look at the turds they put out, the 1980s Chargers and Challengers were laughable. Until 2008. So that's about 7 or so years of amazing muscle cars. In 2008, thru 2023, for 15 years, Mopar has given us arguably the best muscle cars in the modern era. I own a modern Challenger SRT 392 6.4L and am extremely happy with it. Dodge kept the classic lines, and it provides extremely excellent, reliable, and safe driving power at a price tag you couldn't buy for $500k in the 1960s.
300s in particular had already built a bit of a reputation for Chrysler cars even before '65. DeSoto too. Big heavy but fast cruisers. Built like tanks. Some powerful engines in those cars. Years ago I totally ignored those older cars. Didn't like the body styles and didn't see the point. Have had friends that owned them. It took awhile but I came to the conclusion that they really do deserve appreciation too.
@@jeffnorbert1871 indeed Chrysler was well into the performance game starting with the 1955 C300. I own a 300F with the original (rebuilt .060 over and updated heads) engine and cast iron torqueflite. For their day, they had very respectable performance. I still have an old direct connection catalogue, it’s as thick as an old phone book!
Chrysler made some fast cars in the '50s, but really got serious in 1962 with their factory SS cars (Little Old Lady From Pasadena?). NOBODY had any good performance in the mid '70s until the late '80s. But I had a couple good years autocrossing my turbo GLH in '85-'86.
I ran a Super Stock Duster 340 back in the 70s. I remember the popsicle sticks in the intake manifolds. I believe that it was done on the single plane 340 engine manifolds. I found the Eldebrock LD 340 dual plane to be the best manifold with the pendulum divider partially machined down to about 3/4". Ed Hamburger and the factory back teams had all the trick stuff passed down to us regular guys. I still have all those factory tech tip bulletins. Those were the best days of factory modified cars, in my opinion.
Thank Bob Eaton & crew for colluding with Daimler on the lie of "Merger of Equals" for setting Mopar on this path. Even back "In the day," if you made a part for Mopar they were the worst to deal with. It's one reason why the re-pop part supply was so thin & so much more than Ford or GM if/when parts came out. A friend's family is a big into reproducing parts for muscle cars and - straight from the dad's mouth- their licensing rate is the highest, they offered no real help, you pay up front for how many pieces you are going to make- sell out or they feel you are selling something them feel isn't paying them? 16 page letter, 2 of which are cease & desist, 14 are lawyers waiting to sue.
The work around? Just modify the part very slightly and sell it as a part "That fits" and cut Mopar out. Funny thing? GM & Ford understand the legacy marketing of seeing their past products and are far, far better to work with. Lower licensing fees, factory help, not combative....Mopar was always "B!tch, where's my cash" and didn't care beyond that.
Roger Penskie recommend Bob Eaton to Lee Iacocca, because Iacocca couldn't stand Bob Lutz, and adopted the "anybody but Lutz" position when lining up his replacement. That is the tragic chain of events that led to this mess.
@@petehunter2988 Ironically, a customer of my father was Kirk Kerkorian. So when it all started rolling, my dad was dealing with things. As far as Iacocca is concerned, and "Saint Shelby" go watch Stapleton 42 and his interview with Lee Holman where he talks about those two and Leo Beebe...Beebe was friend's with my college roommates' grandfather, he was really a good guy- the movie "Ford Vs. Ferrari" flipped the script around
@@petehunter2988 Lutz said BMW would have been a better fit ...
Chrysler was building utter trash in the 90s when Benz bought them out. Both Benz and Chrysler became worse because of this.
@@workingcountry1776 czcams.com/video/sDO6l8MqPsg/video.htmlsi=uSm4bfbh4Crx7Y4e
Tony, Chrysler is dead, dodge is dead, Plymouth is dead, the 318 is now a 5.2l the new company has been trying to sell cars by leaning on the past.
Chysler died the day that Daimler-Benz took it over and raided talent and their cash. Since then it has been a foriegn car company only looking for profit and living on what was.
100% on target.
Chrysler was always second-best to GM by a long shot😂
@@davidmann4533 Not '62 through '72.
@@davidmann4533 Not true...Even modern Chrysler's are better than new gm..Remember gm cars are either holden or Opel(research all fwd cars gm made are Opels).
@@1966-Chargerbesides the old Imperials the 60s muscle cars are the ONLY thing people remember good about the old Chrysler coporation. 80s-mid 00s were nothing but FWD K car trash and lebarons and all the other JUNK they made
I've never been a Chrysler fan, but we did have them in our family. Back in 1983-1984, my sister had a 1974 Gold Duster. We wanted another "Taz" decal for it, and the local dealer either said it wasn't available or they were too lazy to look it up. My father and sister wrote a letter to Lee Iacocca requesting one.
About two weeks later, a signed letter from Mr. Iacocca came along with two "Duster 340" "Taz" decals in the mail. the car was a Slant Six, but the basic decal was the same. Of course now you can buy them reproduction, but this was pre-internet.
You wouldn't get that personal service today. Also back then, I believe you could write into Chrysler's performance/tech department and actually get a letter back with suggestions on what to do and copies of bulletins and tech tips.
Correct... I too wrote a letter to Chrysler in the 80s about my feelings about fwd performance cars. I received back a letter from Dick Maxwell which I still have today.
The old school direct connection sounds awesome. I'm reading the 2nd edition of the We Were the Ramchargers book, and it is a very good read. 👍
Only one reason to not tell what they discovered . It won't make them look good or the revelation could seriously influence potential buyers to not purchase .
I bought a Mopar high performance logic module for my Omni GLH from the local dealer, in 1989. Couldn't have been more awesome people.
Not the same today....
You STILL fail to understand that engineering departments NEVER have a say in HOW MUCH MONEY is devoted to any given project. Those decisions are made by COST ACCOUNTANTS that are a part of CORPORATE MANAGEMENT.
Engineering departments are considered a cost burden to a company. Therefore, the budgets of engineering projects are tightly controlled.
Blame the corporate mentality engineers must work under, not the engineers who want to design the best possible products, but can't.
Porsche and Lamborghini don't do that!!! 😂😂😂
Look for Lamborghini's replacement for the Huracan that is about to come to market with a hybrind V8 with a flat plane crank putting out over 800HP and with the hybrid system, puts out close to 1000HP!!!😂😂😂
@@LWRC Margin has much influence on dollars spent. What do you suppose the margin is on the newest Lambo, compared to a Toyota? Production numbers and market focus are also completely different.
Think before you type.
Sorry, just following orders is not a valid excuse.
@@craighansen7594 What happens in YOUR job if you tell YOUR boss that you refuse an assignment? You must be about 14 years old.
@@Kenjiro5775Whats wrong with facts you don't like? All relevant industry facts are valid. Comparing Italian sports cars versus Italian owned American sports cars is pretty comparable bro.
Old MOPAR and MOPAR in total, died around 1975. Even when they came with the so called new and improved MAGNUM series engines, these things were junk. I worked on cleaning equipment in the service bays of a local Dodge dealer and they had piles and piles of bad warranty Magnum V-8 engines in the back of the shop. As a car guy and owner of Chryslers in the 60's, I inquired why these new Magnum engines had issues. I was told everything from the oil not flowing properly and it creating sludge to inferior parts, lifters, cams etc. Then came the re release of the HEMI era cars that ends this year and I see way too many YT posts about the issues with the cams and valve trains, lifters ETC, unable to get new and better cams in these engines. Yeah, I'm an old school MOPAR guy for sure.
Ran into a Guy at Carlisle had already blown up his 170. Stellantis wouldn't warranty it. He had it built and turned around and blew the input shaft on the transmission.
Selling Mopars with 700-800 HP is dancing at the limit with auto transmissions. But the spirit of competition seems to encourage blowing things up.
@@jamesmedina2062I’m not a racer, but I that is what I think too. Hard racing is expensive.
"Stellantis" just reminds me of "British leyland" and I think most of us know how that went... EXACTLY like this. Build shite and blame someone else. "Wasn't us it was management" no "wasn't us it was the workers" no "Wasn't us it was the supplier" all companies will make utter sh*t when it isn't their problem because the company is so big there's always someone to pass blame to. Rover, Triumph, MG, Jaguar all made FANTASTIC cars,,,, then British layland happens and BANG,,, all s**t.
Those Direct Connection Bulletins were our lifeblood for performance mods back then. I had the blue cover set, and I called it the "Blue Bible"!
If Jay Leno has a problem with his, they'll be like "yes sir, no sir, three bags full sir" .
A full bag from Raymond?
Great rant Tony! We can only hope Stellantis sells off Chrysler /Dodge back to an American company. No more Customer base and loosing money they will be forced to sell. I'm glad my Challenger was built when it was still owned by the Chysler Corp before Stellantis!
This is what happens when car companies spend more on lawyers than engineers.
Back in the 80's I built a 318/340 Mopar engine. Other than the timing gear set everything in that motor was either factory stock or direct connection. And yeah, those how-to bulletins were invaluable for a first and only time engine builder like me. (Those were the days)
I own a 70 Challenger 340 bought in 79. I own a 70 440-6 GTX bought in 81. I own an 88 conquest TSI bought in 96. I own a 91 Stealth TT bought in 2002. I have rebuilt the engines in these cars and replaced clutches and transmissions. I know how to work on these cars. I have been rebuilding or modifying them since I was 17. I also own an 09 Challenger R/T with the STP package. 6 speed manual. It has 207000 miles and I have only changed the water pump and alternator on the engine. Still has the same clutch. Brakes pads and rotors have been changed. Also I rebuilt the front end and lowered the car. When the day comes I will rebuild the 5.7 and it will be modified. I’m like you Uncle Tony. I like to work on my own cars. I like to add headers and intakes. Cam and lifters. Seems these Engineers have no passion at Stellantis to enjoy the project that they are involved with. The old Chrysler Engineers did. They strived for the most they could get out of the engines and other components to make them #1 on the street and track. The passion was still there a few years back. But until they bring in car guys that understand the American psyche I am afraid they will just fade into history. And that’s sad. Mopar was always a legend on the street. And at the Strip. I know this because I lived it. This Stellantis is a sorry excuse for a car company. Thanks Uncle Tony for hearing my rant.
New engineers think they know more than old ones. Proof is in the pudding.
Hello from Canastan,..this is just another life lesson you point out, this has happened across the board in manufacturing,..will be a long time before this expertise returns, the best car lifestyle show, infinite respect.
SRT group was dissolved for cost savings. Engineering is subcontracted out to India and Brazil now.
The demon 170 is literally the story that never ends. So sad
They don't want open up themselves to a lawsuit. Their lawyers are making this decision.
For $150k? Hmmm. Yup, front sump oiling failure 'fits'. Solution for a $150k car? (dry sump?)
For a 150 large, you’d think a dry sump would be in the budget. Chevy put them in their very expensive, high performance Vettes.
As a young Mopar enthusiast im lucky to be surrounded/grew up by the early mopar people because every time I see a hellcat or (2018) demon im bored by it because its the same copy paste since for well over 10 years, yeah its got power but it lacks the feel of a land yacht like a 60s C or B body… or even the feel of 70 swinger with manual brakes and manual steering, You get that torsion bar front end dancing while driving.
You get WAYY TOO MANY CREATURE COMFORTS with the new stuff.
Idk if that made any sense, bear with me, the old stuff I love more than the new try to change my mind… if you say MoAr PoWeR…. No thats not gonna change it.
If i wanted cheap easy power Id build an LS like what everyone does.
Im gonna use old tricks and figure out to build a boat anchor of a poly 318 and attempt to get 12s in the 1/4
How many times are you going to bang your head on the wall? Sometimes the only thing that motivates you is failure.
@@vinceyoung5912 yes
Do you think the complexity of modern Mopar(Stalantis) support as something to do with there refusing of cooperation? Back then, everyone was born with a 1/2 wrench in a hand and a milk bottle in the other. Nowadays, childrens are good with computers and maybe able to read a bad O2 sensor, but dont know much about combustion chambers, flow velocity and oil viscosity.
I understand they should have told Mr. X racer what broke and what caused it. I WOULD WANT TO KNOW FOR SURE.
They knew about the Hemi tick and its causes but never adressed the problem. Just like there 4.7L. All the companies have an Ego and image to save from the public shame.
try holding a cell phone in hand. Thats about all they know or want to do now.
@@jamesmedina2062okay boomer
Nicely done 😊
There will no longer be an honest exchange of information because there is not enough profit in the act of sharing, plus the corporate lawyers have already sent word that this "mysterious problem" is a "liability" and must therefore be suppressed and eliminated.
Greed has pushed open the gates and now the hungry corporations are upon us.
I am glad this channel makes enough money to keep gentlemen such as you eager to share and reminisce because it shows the world that, yes, we truly did live in the golden era of automobiles.
If you are correct about the front sump oil pan causing oil starvation . Wouldn't a good oil accumulator solve this problem?
As a former D. C man at a Pittsburgh Dodge dealership they should have blown taps for Mopar along
Time ago SO...SAD
I agree 100% with this, I really despise Stellantis..but honestly, the same thing is true with Ford and GM....
Exactly. What's left of the American car industry is doing the same things and will wind up failing as badly as Stellantis/Chrysler.
To continue Uncle's thought, that's why I increasingly will have nothing to do with a lot of the modern world's crapola.
My uncle had a Chrysler 6 powered race boat here in South Australia. He was working at Chrysler's Tonsley plant at the time, and had an unofficial factory backing for engine development from the Lonsdale plant. They discovered that the floating camshaft was cause of multiple oil pump failures which lead to retained camshaft on later version engines.
I owned a 1978 El Camino. One day I experienced a catastrophic power steering failure but fortunately was able to get to the side of the road. The cause of the problem was the steel bracket for the power steering pump literally tore itself in half. When I went to Pick A Part to get a new bracket I discovered every bracket I found had a crack in it. When I went to the GM dealership parts store the new bracket I purchased had an additional steel arm that bolted on to reenforce the original bracket. So GM obviously knew it was a defective part they had to redesign because it was dangerous but never issued an official recall. When I brought this to their attention they angrily denied what was obvious and asked me to get off their property. My point being if Stellantis finds a defect in their design that causes engine failures that would require them to recall thousands of cars you will be the last one they will tell.
There is a legal principle know as a implied warranty of merchantability which is just legalese to say when some represents a product is fit for a particular use then it must be fit for that use. If it turns out the product is defective the manufacturer can be held legally responsible for the defect even if their warranty has expired.
I'm sure the new electric charger will have a "feature" in the software that causes it to randomly "throw a rod" or "spin a bearing" and you have to pay them to upload a "repair". You know...gotta have that really modern Mopar feeling.
In so many aspects of life, in the past we had so much!
Drag racing a 1000hp small block still means you have to tear down the motor frequently. The fact that the factory gave you a leg up in the process doesn't mean its now pain free.
Thanks Tony. For a while, I was really wanting a Challenger SRT 392, but after looking under the hood for an hour, I realized that any problem would be way out of my league. Got my old Ramcharger 4x4`s, two Dodge trucks, 73 and 89. I`m good for a while. Plus I learned to built a mean 727 thanks to Rick Allison. A&A Transmission. The guy will sit and talk to you on the phone like he you`re his only customer.
I used to feel the same way about wrenching on newer cars, but not anymore. I own a 2014 SRT8 392 M6 Challenger currently with 94k hard driven miles on the street and track. Last year I unfortunately encountered the dreaded hemi lifter failure that destroyed my cam. I decided to do the repair/rebuild myself and was shocked how easy it is to work on modern hemi's. Compared to all the older SBC's and the Vortec in my 96 Silverado I have rebuilt/repaired this was seriously not complicated at all.
Give them the Bud Light treatment. The only thing these tone deaf corporations understand.
Heheh, that was real manly having a major snit about one sponsored Canadian makeup tips video on CZcams. :)
That's exactly what they will get with nothing but an electric charger now for 2025
Exactly. Vote with your wallet.
I think Budweiser is doing just fine.
@bigjaz8768 Shows what you know.😂
Bud Lite WAS the #1 selling beer. But hey! You enjoy your rainbow flavored whatever if that's your thing!🤣
I had bought a few Mopar performance manuals. They had everything in them. Even the popsicle stick mods. I made the mistake of loaning them to a friend at the time. He claimed his wife threw them out during the divorce. Pissed me off to no end, as there were no replacements at the time. His excuse still was not very believable to me, but I got stonewalled with that excuse. Decided he was not friendworthy. After 15yrs, I found only one of them on ebay. Now, I loan my books out to nobody, since this kept happening through the years with different books.
The intake manifold modifications you are describing was for the 440 Weiand Tunnel Ram with exchangeable tops (3x2, 2x4 & 1x4). Own one and made all the modifications but we used aluminum not popsicle sticks.. lol
“Over complicate a cup holder in an suv”. Love it! Hit the nail on the head with that one Tony!
ok, so things were a tad different in the supercar era. Red China wasn't looking over our shoulder, they were still trying to get out of a North Korea level economy. Mopar, Ford, AMC and the rest of GM was competing against a chevy small block that had been a performance king since the 1955 Power Pack. The free Performance Clinics were as much about getting bodies and wallets into the dealership to buy swag or parts as it was to help the racers get a reputation. The first gen 2 Hemis in the mid sixties were slapped together to get them quickly into the hands of racers who would tear them apart for blueprinting--only to land in the hands of rich kids and vets home with combat pay. This would teach Mopar to later offer Hemi Darts and Cudas with a "no warrantee" clause (good thing, as folks found bolts lying in their intake manifolds). But Hemis were not cheap cars, either. the support was necessary when a used 396 solid lifter was competition on the street corner (judging from often a Rat is used in street racing to go Elephant hunting, tho yes it's often bigger than a 396) in the average small town America.
now we have a company who saved Mopar from a hedge fund company (who stripped it down) and Mercedes Benz, known for a little arrogance themselves. Stellantis is in the business, they think big, they know what they're doing--you already put money in their pocket when you fell for the advertising and bought a Hemi. their need for loyalty is getting you to come back to buy a global car (remember those from Ford in the 1980's?). Meanwhile, a modern car is designed to defy physics--how can a 4,000 lb collection of safety equipment and passenger compartment options designed to titilate the owner get better than 20 mpg, not pollute (pollution comes from converting all fuel to a byproduct, so the more efficient, the more production) and yet have any performance? It's a bit like the new Boeing plane--a computer is needed to outrace the laws of physics. anyone who can break the code (VW couldn't, so they cheated on their diesels) isn't going to want it to go over the internet where global competitors can pick it up and reverse engineer something.
I stopped being loyal to Chrysler when they sold their soul to Mercedes in late 1998. I'll love the 80s and early 90s turbo Dodges of that era, but that is it. I'll never by any Chrysler built in this century. They have made it clear to the world they give no s**ts about customer satisfaction and reliability, which reflects the attitude of their European overlords they've been dragged around by the neck on a leash since then. I'm not at all surprised to hear any of this. Stellantis sucks.
Even the new “Dodge” fans aren’t real Dodge fans. They barely know their own history
Hey tony I would trust those manuals more than the Internet 😂😂❤
When they dismantled SRT the message was clear.
I grew up in GM house, but I would have loved to be into Mopars in the late eight's 1964 Plymouth max wedge was my dream car. The Tech articles and seminars , would of loved that !
Hey all, I've always had an eye for Mopar but only recently picked up my first. Came to Tony's to try y'all. 1983 dodge 2.2 been driving fine, cruising Saturday she shut off while driving and won't crank or anything now. Fuse box and fuses are operating, besides radio
I think the Popsicle stick epoxy mod was for the Mopar single plane intake for the 440 and they said the one for the 383/400 didn't need modifying. I have a Mopar hard cover performance book from 1970, from before there was Direct Connection and I have some Direct Connection Bibles from the 1970's and 1980. I found the 1980 one at a Dodge dealer in 1981, sitting in the parts department. The 1970 hardcover book is called tune up and repair guide, but it is full of the Mopar racing modification guides too. It even shows 1st gen Hemi valves in an early 318 poly head.
I agree 100% with this video. I also follow RacerX. In my opinion, Stellantis is trying to cover themselves from legal action. The engine does in fact, have a design defect that would require a very expensive recall, or at the very least a reflashing of the engine control computer, to limit its output in an effort to save it self.
It seems that everything is a secret today. I started my career in electronics working for a new start up tv station. The 60 thousand watt transmitter that I worked on came with a set of prints that i pinned up on the wall to let me walk through any trouble shooting process. I loved those prints. All of the equipment we purchased came with complete schematics. That ended about 25 years ago. I would like to think that it was due to concerns about intellectual property theft but I don't believe for a minute that is the actual cause
I personally feel that when vehicles started being controlled completely by computers it was the death knell for the die-hard Mopar fans. Don't misunderstand me, I thought it was a benefit to have the computers to monitor the engine and the processes, but when you couldn't tweak something manually it kind of lost the enjoyment for me.
I have owned exclusively Mopar vehicles since my first car. A beautiful 71 cuda convertible. I even bought the K-cars, and my last purchase was an R/T challenger. I still have a 440 engine and a 318 engine on stands in my garage.
As a car guy, it's truly sad what the big 3 has become, no matter your favorite brand. It breaks my heart that future generations will never get to work on a roached out old hot rod that everyone thinks is junk, but in their eyes its beautiful
Old Mopar- guys who were proud of the PentaStar, from the factories to their driveways
New Mopar- No identity, no pride, corporate, soulless beige and all the meaning and substance of cardboard
Great info. There are two guys that are using their $160,000 Challengers for their intended purpose. The rest sit around with plastic still on their seats and get passed on to another owner thru hyped up auctions with the same intent!
Stellantis didn't "give" him a replacement engine... they purchased the evidence.
Stellantis is not interest in drag racing. Drag story hour maybe, drag racing, no.
overly complex and overly expensive is the new norm . like the new vett vs the old vett . the new vett is better --but its full of computers and un- needed complications and software , overly expensive . the old vert is so much more fun than the new one and will be around as long as there is gas to run . the new one when the computers take a dump your walking
I learned how to tune EFI just because they locked up the PCM. I had to send it into a tuning company to crack it. So far, I've been able to change anything I need to on the factory ECU N/A.
Had "Direct Connection" decals on my 73' Dart Sport 340. Had the DC catalog with the list in the back to get into particular bracket times. Bought a purple shaft cam available thru the catelog too.
Love the reply banter. Thank You Tony.
BTW: What is the stated warrantee?
I got (from my brother) one of those direct connection bibles for the LA engine family. I think it mostly focuses on the 273 and 318. I haven’t looked at it for a while.
For the most part, Chrysler died to me years ago. Haven't had a new Chrysler product since 1991, a minivan, it was OK, really. I didn't want it, the first wife did.
They make nothing I want today, car pickup or whatever.
We had like a 92, the transmission failed 3x, after the 3rd time it got sold and we had a new 2000 Suburban and got up to 350,000 miles in 2013.
My Scat pack is almost nine years old and I've only had a wheel sensor issue. Tires are expensive though but after listening to Tony say these cars operate more efficiently at 3000rpm has helped but honestly it's having a good attitude that makes the car run forever. Kinda like our bodies.
The 92' D250 is the last one they built I'd ever buy again.
I have a 95 Voyager . It's a simple design. The 3.3/3.8 are like a 60-degree version of the GM 3800. The 41TE is a good transmission, but it's light duty - lives forever in a Neon. Change the fluid and filter every other year- don't use the minivan like a truck. These vans can exceed 300,000 miles when driven with care.
@@timothykeith1367yeah the pentastar 3.6 is an oil leaking turd
Don’t forget the world these big car makers operate in today. The bureaucrats. The lawyers. The internet. The “risk managers.” And the mindset of today’s younger customers raised in this brave new world. You just don’t buy something like that from a big multinational conglomerate.
I took Mopar off my list when they started to spell it Fiat.
Nothing wrong with Old School Cool Mopar, but I will never touch anything new from them.
((But I also took Ford off my list when they went to the Mod Engines that are hard to Mod. I like engines that give me the options to play with on Real Life Budgets))
Fix it again Tony.
Don't buy anything with fuel management systems.
Crazy they don’t support the special drag car they built!!
Maybe it will be the house of cards??
Us Blue Oval guys are watching our manufacturer closely, too. They've only been around 121 years, so they're bound to screw up soon! 😉
Interestingly, Ford may not have survived past 1910 if it wasn't for the Dodge Brothers. As an engineering shop, D.B. made transmissions for the 1901 to 1903 Curved Dash Oldsmobile. In 1903, they were making major components for all the Ford models from the Model A in 1903 through to the Model S in 1908.
Ford than folded the company & created the second Ford company, also in 1908. Dodge Brothers made front axles, steering components & other components for the Model T for a number of years, & held a substantial shareholding in the Ford company. [At that time, Ford essentially assembled cars from components made by others]
So I guess that it would not be too much of a stretch to suggest that Dodge has been the automobile manufacturing business even longer than Ford.
they have and are screwing up. I know mechanics who refuse to work on any Ford newer than 2013!
As a fellow blue oval guy, I think they screwed up long ago. That's why I still build FEs.
@@MaxNafeHorsemanship new Ecoboost, 2.3 L, makes 315 HP and 350 pound feet of torque. Imagine a first gen Falcon doing that.
Dark Horse Mustang makes 500 HP from 5 liters. And about 25 mpg! No FE could come close.
You work on FE's because they're a fabulous indestructible engine family, like all Ford engines. 👍
and do what? They are counting on devoted fans like you to keep their revenues high. Ford seems to shoot itself in the foot the worst or about the same as GM.
Anything french makes a car awful.
Not always...but usually .Ive had few issues with the Ford A4LD transmissions used in Rangers, Explorers and Bronco II vehicles. Those transmissions are built in Bordeaux France.
Tony,
I working in engineering.
The reason the engineers dont have passion any more is because it gets beat out of them.
It doesnt matter how good the product is. All that matters is the profits.
Its fairly dystopian.
I agree with you. I bought a 2010 Challenger RT 6 speed manual and raced it 2 years. I put long tube headers with catless mid pipes and k&n cold air system a 85mm BBK throttle body and had it tuned for 101 octane unleaded race gas. I installed a full hop not kit that did not stop the hop lol so I went old school with 50/50 rear shocks and 90/10 front struts. I run Hoosier slicks also that fixed the hop. I broke a half shaft and the shock from it snapping broke the differential. I had it towed to the Dodge dealer and it was repaired under warranty. That was in 2011.
People think dodge is a auto manufacturer that has a marketing department. I see them as a marketing firm that happens to sell automobiles.
Man that’s so accurate. Even thier “support” and Cares teams are all useless marketing people. Very frustrating to work “with” when issues occur.