Darkroom Printing
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- čas přidán 11. 05. 2013
- theartofphotography.tv
/ tedforbes
In contrast to our last episode on scanning negatives, we are going to do the traditional process today of taking those same negatives and making prints in the darkroom. I'm going to use a traditional process of black and white, silver gelatin process and eventually we will compare the final results of these to processes together. This is not really a film vs digital thing, but I'm more interested in evaluating our results to find the best process for the image or project we are working on.
In addition to this I want to take a look at the options you have as a photographer in both processes so we know what we can expect.
Hey Ted, so grateful for your channel and the work you did early on. You are very good at educating and creating content that is easily learnable, so thank you for the work you’ve done.
I agree with you 100% on your point about 'too much computer'. I work on a computer all of the time at work, I do film (and also music recording on two inch tape) to get away from the computer in my hobbies. I enjoy your videos very much. Thanks!
What a gem your channel is! I’ve been busy lately getting into darkroom/wet printing and your channel has all the information I needed. Thanks Ted!
I really appreciate your shows, it´s good for inspiration and learning.
interesting video, but wished you would show us beginners how to set the enlarger up , we didn't even see were the negative went or how to focus it , which is the whole point of a video like this
fair point, but if you dont know that you focus an enlarger with a lens, youre not a beginner.
you probably stumbled over the video by chance and never wasted a single thought about photography before :)
@@inevitablecraftslab people like you really make others consider that photography is nothing but a wasted thought. There's no need to be a prick to someone who wants to learn more about a subject :)
@@chazsmith6846 ah come on ...
Thanks for these videos Ted. I follow your channel and am always surprised and pleased by the wealth of content you have created. I was given a developing kit and enlarger at Christmas and this video has helped me to understand how to use them.
Enjoying the process taking place. You're right the last image is amazing looking.
Fascinating! I am enjoying watching your videos. I just started my first semester of Photographic Technology and I can't wait to get to the dark room.
Really enjoying this series. I'm inspired to pull my darkroom equipment out of the boxes now. I just purchased a Cambo legend last week and I'm making my foray into LF photography. thanks for the great episodes.
Ted! That was a great episode! Really sharp, precise, interesting. Best channel on CZcams!
this was the exact video Ive been looking for - amazing channel!!
Superb video! Very informative and well said. I'm looking forward to the other 214 videos of yours I get to watch now.
I love how you bring up the filters to help manipulate the photo to get the right look you're going for. I didn't know about filters when I first started out but once I did they honestly made my life unbelievably easier. Filters really are one of the best darkroom tools, especially when you have a bit of a tricky negative like that first one you showed. I actually find that the fastest way to get the best kind of print for me is to do a split-filter technique. That way I can get areas that I want to be bright bright without washing out my darks, and I can get nice, rich darks without muddying my bright white or middle grey areas. Could you do a video detailing split-filtering? I think it's a really good technique for any film photographer interested in darkroom printing to know, beginner or not.
I really like the first lily image, I like that it's flat, though it's not too flat, I also like the way the stalk fades into the white in the corner, I'd personally call that a success!
can't wait to see the comparison video
You're a god, thank you so much for all the videos you've made over the years
Thank you very much... I love listening to you and your tutorials are brilliant, inspiring and are going to guide me as I shoot some BW film, develop the roll and then unveil my recently acquired Durst M605 with diffuser head and attempt to create my first prints... (Last time I did anything like that was with 127 bellows camera and contact prints 30 years ago !) This time around I have spoiled myself as I now have some wonderful classic 35mm cameras Olympus, Minolta, Canon etc., and couldn't resist buying some older ones, Zorki, Frank Solida 2, and others..
i need more explanation on how the image burns on to the paper, why does it do that, is it a light sensitive paper or what?
Yes, like the film, a photographic printing paper has been coated with emulsion to make it sensitive to light (silver halides). Usually made orthochromatic (insensitive to red), permits photographers to work in a darkroom by minimal illumination of orange/red safelight.
Was the link you talked about your darkroom setup in the description? I didn't see, since you mentioned a link it would be nice if it was available.
What are your toughts on shottiing film and printing on analog paper vs scaning the film and print using inkjet printer?
Another great presentation. Is it possible, your light intensity problem in the corners, is related to the enlargers condenser configuration/setting?
I miss the dark room! I want a dark room and all the other things needed like the enlarger etc 😭
So the fixer you are using here is the same one you are using for fixer when developing negatives? I love multipurpose products! (Especially ones that save a step and reduce odor problems as well!) If I understand correctly, the only difference in chemicals (when dealing with B&W) between developing film and making prints is the developer chemical used?
Thank you for sharing this, it was helpful.
You are a pool of knowledge! very interesting video and helpful.
40 seconds is a long exposure time, what was your enlarger lens aperture?
Thanks Ted, great show!!
How can you value the contrast if the paper is inside the wather? I learned to dry it before value
Do you provided seminar for the dark room
I enjoyed this, a great tutorial, thanks!
This is great, I really am thinking about buying a medium format camera. Digital is still great but working with film is just so fun aga rewarding.
In reference to the corners being lighter...Your Beseler enlarger has a variable condenser adjustment giving you the capability adjusting the condensers to cover the FULL image by simply rotating a knob to a condenser distance that applies to the negative size/lens focal length used. Reference an instruction manual for the enlarger that you use.
A very in depth video. I have learnt a lot :)
This video is the very first time I've seen a darkroom setup. When I become the world's next famous photographer, I'll have you to thank!
Has anyone else tried Kodak d76 is a paper developer and if so what distillation and times do you use?
Are the chemicals used in the darkroom film developing the same as developing to the negatives?
Generally, no. Film developer is different to paper developer. Fixer is usually interchangeable.
Ted, you mentioned using a flash to brighten up the background of the calla lilly for a future shot but a dilute bleaching would also do wonders at brightening up your highlights in the existing prints. Maybe you'll mention bleach in the toning segment.
Approximately how much is everything needed for enlarging and developing and all that? I wouldn't know since I was able to take a film photography class.
Ted, I don't do dark room printing, but you might just convert me. Found the whole process very interesting. You hit a good point around picking paper for different tones. Any chance you could do a video on selecting paper for inkjet printing?
Sounds like he has a really powerful light source on his enlarger, to give a good print in 30s at f/22. If that's all it takes for a base exposure, I'm guessing the required exposure at f/8 would be way too fast to allow for any useable burning or dodging! Awesome videos - I love these darkroom / analogue episodes! You rock, Ted! :)
Indeed, I would believe that the vignetting-issue is related to the combination of condenser and lens. I had way huge vignette-issues on my Durst M670 BW, if I tried to print a negative with the correct lens and mask for my negative format, but with the wrong condenser.
With everything matched, I have absolutely no vignetting-issues.
Not sure how this particular enlarger works though, not all enlargers need a total re-build every time you change from one negative-format to another. .:)
*****
Sounds like it works just like my Durst then. I also have to change the named parts when changing from small to medium format as well.
Maybe Ted has some kind of mismatch somewhere?
Gavin Donohue
Check if it changes if you stop down the enlarger lens.
If not, remember this:
For 35mm, you need (usually) a 50mm lens or so. This has it's own lens-board attachment, type is a "tub" type lens board .
When I enlarge my 35mm shots with the 50mm lens, I use one condenser, , I think it's called SIRICON 50, which gives even light and no vignetting at all. I also use a 35mm mask in a universial slide in/out holder with newton glass in it.
When I change to 120 (6x6 and 6x7), I need to change out.
- The lens to a 110mm ( I believe you can use 80mm as well)
- The lens board (to a flat type)
- The condenser
- The mask in the negative-holder.
Then i can enlarge my 120's with no vignetting at all.
I cannot remember all the part-names for my durst right now and it's packed in my basement, as I no longer have room to enlarge shots in my new apartment....
See ebay item 351284537431 this is the correct condenser for 35mm, the 120 one has much more glass in it, as you can see from the photos in the ebay-ad, the 35mm one has a small hole where the light comes trough on one side, the 120 one is almost a solid piece of glass.
I hope that helps, I would guess ebay would be your best bet to get hold of parts. I was able to order the 50mm lens-board and 35mm masks from Durst directly, but I cannot see that they sell those parts anymore on their official website, try and contact them and see if it is even possible (was quite expensive for parts + shipping!)
EDIT: I see that the condenser I have for 120, is most likely called Siricon 80.
Not sure if I can link or not, but try a google search for "siricon 80" (with the quotes) and there should be photos around that shows how it looks:
img1.annuncicdn.it/c1/4f/c14f981474ae03f2262f7a6e27b62360_orig.jpg
Ebay would be your best bet here too, or on places like APUG.org.
That particular shot also shows the lens boards that you use with the lenses etc.
awesome prints
if you scale test prints to a 50 / 50 ratio on the size of paper you get a back up Greetings card regardless of quality
or sell them in bulk to hotels or frame makers ( mass producers ) - similar to the smiling family that comes with frames
I like LDP - nice warm tone developer…
Tks for very useful video, but a little question since I didn,t undestand, which developer you used. Tks
Ted, I was wondering why you set your exposures for so long. I run my Ilford papers and open up lens half way and have established a time of about 10-12 seconds. I haven't seen where going with the smaller f/stop and longer times have really made a difference,,, unless I am just buying time because I was either dodging or burning. Please explain your use of the longer times if you can.
With the lily image I would have been tempted to selectively sulphide tone the lily and then put the print in ferricyanide to bleach the background white, then wash and fix again. You won't get the background whiter than that.
I was wondering about that as well.
Hello. Can you tell me what kind of developer you use for printing ? Is it the same for negative developing? Which one you use?
What do you do with waste exposed paper? I'm just saving test strips and bad prints for now, could try extracting the silver when I have a bit more.
Great video! As a complete beginner at film photography, who wants to get into darkroom printing, I have a quick question. Do you use developed film rolls for darkroom printing? Does the printing process start with developing the film rolls themselves? (Can't find his first video on this)
Yes, you'll need to have developed the film first so you can essentially project it onto the photographic paper :)
hi, just cant get what kind of developer you using? f flow?
I often manipulate developers temperature to control contrast, but I never used filters is there big difference ?
Thank you for this video
Is there any functional difference between stopping down on the enlarger and exposing longer, and opening up the stop and shortening the exposure time? I know it changes DoF when taking photos, but does it change anything when making prints?
It has influence on sharpness and clarity as enlarger lenses have their sweet spot as well, which is normally the double of the wide open aperture. And as well it will influence the time that you could use to dodge or burn, to give more definition to the whiter parts by blocking the darks. Also, in my experience, filters and longer exposure times are kind of giving a more satisfying, “rounder” print, more what I see, when I actually take the photo... always good light!
Variable contrast printing is a bit advanced for an intro to analog printing, don't you think? However I do agree that the results of split filter contrast printing speak for themselves... and it saves paper.
Great video! Thank you
great tutorial!
What about for color prints? Even though this video was 4 years ago, is it still worth it to wet print color negatives?
I have the money to get a color enlarger, some paper and chemicals, but I'm worried about the paper chemicals not being available anymore. It is a risk, and I could even go with a decent inkjet or dye printer instead. I know digital is obviously more practical, but I tend to think if companies are still makingblack and white photo paper and chemicals for professional artists, then the color paper and chemicals should be around just as long, but I might be wrong.
I've never printed or developed my color negs before, and I know I want to, but I worry about chemicals dying out and not being available anymore. I don't even know the number of stores that carry r4 chemicals.
There has been a resurgence of tintypes and wet plate processes, but I think the issue with color printing maybe a different story, unfortunately. Should I stick to a b/w darkroom, and stick to a digital process for my color prints? I want some kind of finished product as a print. And I'm afraid if I go digital, I won't feel satisfied. Currently, I send out for development and printing (they use digital to print anyway, and I like their quality a lot), but I want to start being more involved in the last stages of the process.
could you just say again the best paper if your just starting up
Why f22 though ? I've heard that f8 is sharp enough, is it so you can chose more precise exposure times ?
15:00 I believe you can get that print more contrasty... step up the contrast filters, play around with concentration of developer. I also heard somewhere that less time exposing, more time developing, and vice versa gives you contrast differences. A lot of my prints I'd like to be more contrasty, so any other input from commenters, let me know! Good work Ted.
try split-filtering with a low and high number filter. Try starting a test sheet using a 4 to 5 filter (I'd suggest two second bursts for 8-10 bursts) going in one direction (I like to go horizontally) then, without changing anything but the filter, swap to a low number filter such as a 1/2 to a 1 1/2 filter and go over the test sheet again in two second bursts for 8-10 bursts going a different direction (I like to go vertically for the low filter). This will give you a test sheet with squares instead of rowes. Find the square you like the contrast best in and make your print according to how long that square was exposed for each filter
hey thanks for the Video!
Thanks for the vid. it is all about the image anyway and how you get there is certainly preference. think of all the extra images you can get from the time you save from not being in the darkroom.
I see what you're saying but saving time isn't really the point.
The Art of Photography !gardenwindow
I have a Nikon F5 camera what would be the best scanner to buy.
Any relatively well known film scanner is fine. Epson v600, canoscan 4400, pakon even. Just as long as you can use the software and it'll resolve well enough, it shouldn't matter much.
Hey Ted, I picked up the Rodinal for developing the film, do you have any recommendations for paper developer?
Ilford Multigrade works fine for me. Anyone else have suggestions?
To be fair I actually like the way Ted talks lol.
Yes it is very radio like but he knows his shit and conveys the message clearly.
The lack of pauses to me keeps me listening without any time in the video wasted.
I would however have liked to see more of the actual process and an explanation as to which chemical baths were being used and when and for how long. Just same as you did in the developing stage.
Anyway Keep it up ......!
very cool! Thanks!
Now I really wish I had access to a darkroom :l but I pretty much have to wait until I go back to school to use theirs but I dont want to go back
how much are the filters?
maybe the vignette is your enlarger lens, coverage issues?
so cool! just found out about your channel!
Great show. You got subbed.
Thank you for this! :)
... I use a 50mm for 35mm, 80mm for medium format and a 105mm for 5x4. Just a guess.
Wish I could have a darkroom but with a sceptic system and well water it doesn’t seem safe
Fine video
Like your outlook
Wetprints are still what ppl seem to want..For obvious reasons.. I know inkjet is good but.......
When I print a test strip they suck. I see other people in the class and you look good. With mine I can't really see how much time I need.
If you have an iPhone or iPad then you should try enLARGE, a new app which lets you make a tiny (eg. credit-card size, or any size you like) full-frame work print and then when you get THAT looking great you use the app to work out the equivalent exposure time needed to make a second perfectly matching larger enlargement of any desired size. Easy to use, totally accurate, will give you a perfect looking larger enlargement in the first print!
Ehrm, about that Beseler, would you send it to me? Pleeease:)
I think you miss the point with the contact print. It will not only get the exposure time but the contrast too.
tks i love you.
Ok so THAT'S how it goes from a negative to a larger print. I can't tell how many videos i watched where they started with the photo already in the paper and no explanation
AFAIK the silver content is sooooo low it is not economically feasible to even try to extract it:(
Using multigrade paper w/ red safelight...
Why not make a mask to completely white out the bottom part?
Excellent presentation IMO, for someone who knew nothing about photography before seeing several of your vids. Thank you. Background: I recently bought three pocket size cameras (two canon and one Fuji) in mint condition ( at a flee market in Catonsville, MD).
Goal: To introduce photography to my ten year old daughter, Anayah who loves to draw, but recently has been distracted by her fixation with her iPad. As a homage to you, for your passion, commitment and joy of sharing, I will ensure that I share with you the outcome or synthesis of Anayah's artistic and creative expressions. Thanks, Wayne whale2@umbc.edu
how about doing a comparison. 2 photographers, the same negative and compare the results. sounds like fun ;)
Get a Pentax K1000, best camera for learning photography :)
thanks for the vid.
i couldn't understand the more affordable paper for beginners u mentioned - so if u give a quick comment on this it would be really nice.
Peter von Snowtea I think he meant the multigrade RC paper that ilford produces. Just google ilford RC paper and you will mostly likely find them on websites like b&h and adorama.
why doesn't he use a stop bath?
TF - 4 does not require a stop bath
He's using tf4, tf4 or tf5 are fixers that do not require a stop that
that series is interesting but these photos ruined everything. It's not that these are not pretty but i would use some higher detail shots to really compare these two methods
Dark room printing is still... beyond me.
Billy Newman. Depending on your aptitude for learning by watching and doing, the first five minutes in a darkroom with an experienced printer will show you the basics, and an hour will be a revelation. If you are one of those who can learn by reading books with good illustrations, go to a large library, a used book store, Amazon or Ebay and get the book on printing that's one of a series of about 10 to 12 books on Photography published by Time-Life Books about 40 years ago, but this particular book is still relevant to printing in a darkroom today. Many community colleges and tech schools still have darkrooms - you just have to ask. If they still have a darkroom, they will probably have this book, which would save you a lot of time in trying to locate a copy.
@Tim Layton whats your best video for a beginner? I'm looking at getting an enlarger to print 8x10 B&W negatives.
Zachary Brown theres other videos, did you look and get a darkroom?
Eh... In the darkroom, the lens sharpness doesn't matter as much as actually taking the picture. I've printed at f/8 and f/16, I didn't see a noticeable difference at all even printing a 400 iso image. I even printed up to f/22 on a 50 iso image, didn't make a lick of difference.
Well, a lens will always have an optimal aperture in terms of offering the highest level of sharpness and contrast. Usually 2 stops down from wide open. I have seen diffraction when stopping too far down.
negatives were flat, so prints didn't got out so good as it could be.
I wish you were my neighbor. :D
i know what you did here, you want a flat similar to his ey ? :)
first pic of flowers is much better
Like👍
aw the dudes nervous as heck. look at his hands shake
The enlargers aren't bargains anymore.
Talk talk talk
+edward rivera troll troll troll
What did you expect? A silent film with piano music and some text here and there? This is a complex process so ofc there's lots of talking needed to explain.
The Art of Photography Thanks alot for making this video by the way :)